Castlevania Dungeon Forums
Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: Abnormal Freak on December 26, 2012, 07:51:10 AM
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Friends, seeing as how I'm all befuddled, I figured I'd ask y'all some stuff, take my chances and see if I get some good answers, that sort of thing.
I've been interested in this girl for a few years. She knows it, we're good friends, she likes me too, but we're both very cautious; we don't want to date currently because we'd rather not deal with a messy breakup should that happen.
In other words, we're unsure.
And I'm getting more unsure by the day. We're both Bible-believing Christians, she's a funny gal and level-headed, and despite the heated arguments we get into where you'd swear we HATE each other (from time to time over the years I've even thought to myself, "I'm never talking to her again"), we seem to make up pretty well. But trouble pops up in our differences. In some ways they can be good, in terms of our strengths and weaknesses; she has a lot of qualities I lack and vice versa, so it's encouraging to have someone to support and who will support you. But our differences are also a problem: she's much more conservative than I am, particularly in the fields of humor and entertainment. My likes are often more on the "liberal" side because I realize my interests don't make me who I am, while she's more the churchie type. This honestly wouldn't bother me much if it weren't for the fact she's ALWAYS in my hair about what I like or think. "You shouldn't do this"; "If we were married, I couldn't allow this," etc. We're very at odds in this sense and I wonder if it would hamper our happiness and the way we raise kids.
Her biggest problem is just "objectionable" content in movies and the like. I'm a horror/exploitation/B-movie junkie and there's often a lot of female nudity in them. She brought up a good point that a woman isn't going to be pleased with her husband seeing breasts in a movie, even if he's not lusting for her or comparing; in her mind it doesn't matter how loyal a man's thoughts or actions are, according to her "the girl will always feel abated." Part of me sees this point full well, but another can't help but feel that it's unwarranted jealousy. If a man's married to a woman, I feel that she shouldn't worry about his devotion; she's already his, they're locked in. Marriage isn't a commitment I take lightly, and breasts in a movie aren't going to distract from my love for my wife. If I were watching PORNO, that's a problem, but I'm not watching the movies I like FOR the boobs. It would be wonderful if a girl I marry would allow me to enjoy the things I like and not give me grief or feel downcast over my tastes; but I realize a couple makes compromises in a marriage.
Though a part of me can't help but wonder if this'll be a problem all my life. It's not just that she's against some content; it's that our senses of humor and our interests aren't always mutual, and more often than not are separate. She gets upset easily and can't handle very well dark content or serious tales; she's very much into lighthearted fare. If I can't often enjoy with her a good, engaging, dramatic movie because it's too dark for her, I feel that's a problem. She's also into totally cheeseball humor, the stuff I typically can't stand, whereas I'm more into absurdist stuff and raunch. What I find funny isn't exactly something I can change, and it wouldn't be fair to either of us to have me suppress my personality if she can't cope with the things I like or find comical. She's already given me the waving finger (figuratively) a couple times in this regard.
So I dunno. On the one hand, she's a great gal, super pretty, we get along well, our beliefs are in many ways very similar, and we laugh a lot when with each other (we do have some common humor ground); but on the other, we're VERY different when it comes to our interests, I feel like she nags me (and she's not even my girlfriend for crying out loud), she often makes me either depressed or really irritated, and despite our general and sometimes specific mutual beliefs, we have what I consider to be minor differences that are actually HUGE FREAKING DIFFERENCES because she grew up in a really strict home and her parents have a great deal of influence on her. (Now's a good time to mention she once got on my case for being really annoyed [not at her] and using the word "friggin'.")
And that's another thing: she suffered a traumatic brain injury when she was a kid and has a bit of problem adjusting to new ideas, ways of life, etc. so she clings to her parents' guidance. Nothing wrong with obeying your parents and heeding their advice, that's biblical after all, but I often feel like she doesn't have a whole lot of independent voice, which she agrees. Her parents are all well and fine and they really stepped up to the challenge and raised a fantastic, smart daughter (she graduated from college recently with good grades) whom teachers and doctors were saying would be so incapacitated that she'd spend her life mopping floors at McDonald's (you can't even tell she's handicapped; it's only when she faces conflict that she kinda locks up and has trouble behaving "normally," even though she is more rational than a lot of people who have no excuse). I'm not trying to say anything bad about them, I just think they're too strict in ways and I'd be interested to see how my friend deals with things if she were to move out and be on her own for a while. Maybe the areas where she harps on me would not be such a problem anymore and she'd loosen up a bit. She's already shown some of this loosening since we've become better friends, which by the way she always asks herself, "Am I just lightening up or am I losing sight of my convictions?" So who knows? Maybe in another few years she won't be a total momma's girl and won't have so much beef with me and what I like to do. Then again, she could be this way all her life. Either way, I think it's best to continue to play it safe from a distance and not rush headlong into a relationship and instead allow myself to cool down (i.e. tell my hormones to settle down). But part of me's worried another guy will come along and snatch her away during this time of indecision, leaving me miserable because I have this irrational feeling that I'll find no one better. But isn't that mentality more like "settling for what's best"? That certainly feels wrong and unfair to her; it would make sense to never marry than to go for a girl simply because she's the best available therefore "I might as well."
Anyway, yeah. Just wondering folks' thoughts on all this crap. I've talked to my family, I've talked to friends...now I'm interested in talking to youse guys.
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If it were me, I would give a relationship a chance if I really liked the girl, and it sounds like you do. You may learn to grow into your differences, so to speak. I would think that if a breakup was caused due to choices of entertainment, both of you could be mature about it and still be friends.
Oh yeah. And if you really like the girl, there is a chance someone else might have some interest in her or will in the future... possibly the very near future. It's something to keep in mind.
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A strong relationship is built on two things. The most well known is trust, the unfortunately more often forgotten one is mutual respect. You have to be equal partners or it won't work. You won't always share the same interests and that's ok. But it's not a matter of "letting" one or the other enjoy something they like. She needs to respect your hobbies the same way you need to respect whatever hers are that she enjoys and you don't. Doesn't mean you have to like them yourself but you should just be happy that there is something that brings the person you love joy. If you can't work out something so relatively trivial in your life together, how would you ever hope to tackle the big challenges? Ultimately this, along with the nature of your feelings for each other in general, is something that you and she need to sit down and talk about together.
(A bi man giving relationship advice to Christians, who'da thunk it? :P ;D lol)
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But part of me's worried another guy will come along and snatch her away during this time of indecision, leaving me miserable because I have this irrational feeling that I'll find no one better. But isn't that mentality more like "settling for what's best"? That certainly feels wrong and unfair to her; it would make sense to never marry than to go for a girl simply because she's the best available therefore "I might as well."
Yes, this is bad. Do you want "the best girl I can get", however you judge that, or do you want her. You have to love the person, flaws and all, if you want a serious relationship. Here's a good test of your emotions- if, hypothetically, there was another guy you were competing with for her affections and you somehow knew she would be happier with this other person (not wealthier etc. but actually happier) would you want her to be with him so she would be the happiest she could, or would you want her to be with you? Needless to say the latter choice would show that your feelings in regard to her are more self-serving than truly affectionate or loving.
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She needs to respect your hobbies. She doesn't have to like them, but she has to respect them, just as you should respect hers.
I am seeing nothing but red flags on the things you're describing about her, the one that resonates more is "If we were married, I couldn't allow this". I suppose there is something to be said about compromise, but I do not know the details enough to talk about that all that much.
She brought up a good point that a woman isn't going to be pleased with her husband seeing breasts in a movie, even if he's not lusting for her or comparing
Who told you that this is a good point? This sounds like an insecure woman talking. Many women don't really care if you casually end up seeing breasts in films. They're not watching your expression like a hawk seeing if you're getting your rocks off watching 'em.
Sorry, Freak... but this girl sounds too conservative for me. Perhaps you would be able to deal with those issues, but I sure as hell wouldn't. Then again, I like Liberal girls and stay THE FUCK AWAY from Conservatives, and the Religious, and ESPECIALLY the Religious Conservative women.
“Men marry women with the hope they will never change. Women marry men with the hope they will change. Invariably they are both disappointed.” -Albert Einstein
She's already drawing her line in the sand. I wouldn't date her... but then again I'm not you.
You want a nice liberal girl, who will watch the movies with you, enjoy them and tell you "That girl's got some nice knockers. After this is over you wanna get weird with me?".
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There is no good relationship without mutual interest. If your interests are so far apart, and you don't think she'll learn to respect your interests, forget it. You can be great friends, but a relationship would be filled with argument and taking it further into marriage would cause a painful divorce, since unless you don't to live together you'll suffer.
For me, I know that a religious woman is a no-zone. Even if I really like one and she likes me, it won't work. The result would be often her family viewing you in a bad light since you're "not like them", the girl always being mad with you for not going to church / synagogue, stuff like that. The funny thing is that it works the other way around- secular girls in my country are far more willing to sacrifice their secular lifestyle and accept religious obligations for a man they like.
In Christianity it's not as difficult because there are far less restrictions than Judaism or Islam, and religious people are mostly less conservative. Yet I believe a mixed-marriage is still difficult.
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I agree with Jorge 100%. Red flags abound! The "if we were married" part did it for me no way Id date that chic I dont care how hot she is. You are right tho about her maybe or never changin. Its a huge gamble.
My best friend married a girl that was kinda like this girl your talkin about. She was a really strictly church girl raised by strict church goin parents, still lived with em at 22, worked at a church radio station only job she ever had, etc. She didnt cuss she didnt drink she was a serious bible thumper and when they first met I couldnt stand her. After they were married a while and of course moved in together she loosened up and relaxed. Shes still religious and they goto church all the time but shes way easier to be around now. Shes almost the kinda religious person totally non-religious ppl like me like to be around. Almost... not quite shes still high horsey sometimes but shes totally different now (after 6? years) than she was.
Your girl could be the same way... or she could always live with/under her parents. Like I said its a big gamble. All I know is that right now as you described her, shes a no fly zone probably even as more than a casual friend
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Yeah I stay away from all heaviliy-religious women, but especially Protestants, Jewish, and Muslim women, and I don't even address Jehova's Witnesses, Mormons, or Scientolgists. I'm open to Budhist, Hindi, Catholic, but I work best with Agnostic and Atheist women. Modern Catholics (which I used to be, long ago) are awesome 'cuz it's one of the least devout of the religions. "You're not going to Church this Sunday? Good, me neither!" :P
If a woman is going to nag me to go to church or is going to put my kids in a religious regime as soon as they're born, we're just not gonna get along.
So like I said: pick a nice secular, liberal, girl. Maybe even have a three-way with her and her cute friend. Nice and blasphemous. ;) In fact, the more diabolic debauchery the better. Bwaahahahaha.
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"You're not going to Church this Sunday? Good, me neither!" :P
Sounds to me like the "passive-aggressive Polish moms" stereotype.
Oh, you don't want to go to Church today? That's okay, don't worry. I'm perfectly fine with you disregarding the family tradition. Don't feel like washing the dishes right now? Fine. I'll wash the dishes. And mop the floor. And prepare dinner. Go on, read your paper now. ;D
Also, weren't Catholics supposed to be more conservative than Protestants? Is it the other way around now?
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Freak, this is a problem I too share in that we as Christians who have a more open minded and relaxed view on things often find ourselves stuck in a very difficult position. I'll be making a few presumptions here so feel free to correct me on anything if I am wrong.
Preface: the terms of liberal and conservative for this post are used under the lifestyle and moral attitude definitions, not the political ones.
The biggest issue for people like us is our middle road status. The average Christians tend to think of us as too liberal, wrong, or undevoted, and likewise the real liberal crowd will scoff that we are too conservative, wrong, and stupid or ignorant. Afterall, you can't be intelligent and religious at the same time, right? Such is the open minded believer's plight.
The problem here is, she is on the traditional Christian road which causes her to be somewhat short sighted on some issues. We both know that the objective of a moral ideal, is not always the same as the traditional route to get there. As a simple rule to follow, no nudity what so ever is the road to keeping lust away from a couple. That said, you can however arrive to that same goal through sheer will, and gain the same result, without the traditional method of doing so. There is nothing wrong with this, however, you will of course be panned for it by the typical Christans. Likewise you can't turn to any liberal friends either, because they will tell you you shouldn't hold on to a religious related goal at all. Again, stuck between the crowds.
The truth of the matter is, you will not find many people of your type. It is a lonely road to embrace the goals of religion, without following it step by step as it was 2000 years ago. That is, at least in my experience.
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There is no good relationship without mutual interest. If your interests are so far apart, and you don't think she'll learn to respect your interests, forget it. You can be great friends, but a relationship would be filled with argument and taking it further into marriage would cause a painful divorce, since unless you don't to live together you'll suffer.
This is 100% true and I know it from heart-crushing experience. The ex wasn't honest with me about how she felt about my one major interest and this lead to all kinds of problems and eventually resentment. And to compound things further she wasn't honest about her reasons for getting married. She did it because of a misguided idea that it would make things better. She was dead wrong. Don't get me wrong I love her still, and I probably always will, but if I knew then what I know now, I never would have let things go as far as they did.
She needs to respect your hobbies. She doesn't have to like them, but she has to respect them, just as you should respect hers.
Even if you only share a few common interests that should be good enough if you both maintain mutual respect those interests you don't share. You both have to be mature enough to be ok with the things you don't share in common. And it doesn't matter what it is you're in to. Porn, D&D, drag racing, doesn't matter. If she can't respect the things you like, then she isn't ready for a serious relationship.
If you do end up pursuing a relationship with her and you find she does mellow out and you start thinking of getting hitched I urge you to not do it until you've lived together first. There is a very big difference between dating someone & living with them. The first month you live with someone you'll get on each others nerves to no end and every single little pet peeve you have will come out in glaring brilliance.
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Oh, you don't want to go to Church today? That's okay, don't worry. I'm perfectly fine with you disregarding the family tradition. Don't feel like washing the dishes right now? Fine. I'll wash the dishes.
Sounds more like Jewish Mom Guilt.
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Even if you only share a few common interests that should be good enough if you both maintain mutual respect those interests you don't share. You both have to be mature enough to be ok with the things you don't share in common. And it doesn't matter what it is you're in to. Porn, D&D, drag racing, doesn't matter. If she can't respect the things you like, then she isn't ready for a serious relationship.
I think porn (actual porn, not some dumb exploitation movie with lots of nudity) is going too far for most women and reasonably so. 'Cos face it, you're watching that stuff to get your rocks off and you're seeing women (or men, or goats, or...) getting plowed and creamed all over. It's pretty rotten business for a man claiming devotion to his woman to be into. No woman should have to put up with or respect her man's interest in porn, IMO. I see it as very unloving, even if you're not a religious couple. Unless of course you're with one of those rare girls who are pornomaniacs. I still think porn amidst the relationship will cause problems, but hey...maybe some can make it work.
But on the other areas I agree. Something that bugs me about the girl I'm really into is I'll sometimes bring up that it bugs me the way she gets after me about what I like, and she'll say, "But you don't like what I like!" to which I point out to her that I don't try to take that away from her; she's free to enjoy what she does, I realize it brings her great joy and it makes me smile because of it. I sometimes jokingly call her a cheeseball and say, "Figures you'd laugh at that," but I'm just joking around with her and I think she realizes that. (She can be very hard to read in that she sometimes laughs or smiles even if she doesn't fully mean it; something could have ignited or be brewing inside where she changes her feelings on something later.)
And I do agree that she must be pretty insecure if she's whipping up such a fury about boobs in movies. I've told her, "If I date a woman, it will be no small decision, and if her and I get married, I will be with her the rest of my life making it work out in any way I can and my love, devotion, and sexual attention will be HERS. No exceptions. And something I see in a movie isn't going to make me think, 'Gee, I wish my wife had knockers like those!' If a husband sees some outrageously pretty woman walking down the street and turns his head to notice, his wife shouldn't have fear because she ought to be comfortable in the fact that out of ALL the women in the world, he chose HER to be with." To which she replies, "I know the guy probably won't be that way, but to the girl it will ALWAYS be that way, always on her mind. She'll be comparing herself to these other women and being upset at even the THOUGHT that her husband could be doing the same." Which definitely sounds more like insecurity than something religious; I've thought about asking other Christian women I know (those my age, I mean) about this and find out what they have to say, but part of me's kinda timid about it, thinking that might be a little inappropriate. (And yeah, before anyone thinks it's all too weird we're discussing marriage both in a general sense and pondering about it when it comes to the two of us together, we're both of the mindset that we don't want to date anyone unless marriage is a good possibility, marriage being "the ultimate goal." So it'd be a little more like courting in that sense, though not strictly so.)
And she sees these as moral issues; my interest in exploitative entertainment has to do with spiritual immaturity, she claims, thinking God doesn't want that for my life. The odd thing is, over all the years I've given it extensive thought, I've never once felt God ring alarm bells like He has other areas of my life that I see now needed change, rather I'm always feeling guilted by other believers who have more a traditional way of thinking. I've told her this and said that even if I were to get rid of "objectionable" entertainment, it won't necessarily change me or kill my desire to enjoy those things, because I'd be doing it for her and not for God, and can she live with that? to which I haven't yet gotten an answer.
The truth of the matter is, you will not find many people of your type. It is a lonely road to embrace the goals of religion, without following it step by step as it was 2000 years ago. That is, at least in my experience.
It's a lonely road indeed. The gals into the kindsa thing I like (gruesome horror movies, industrial music, etc.) are almost always of the liberal atheist variety, whereas the Christian gals tend to come in two packages: the ones who are open to the stuff I show them and don't give me beef usually end up compromising in areas where I think it's definitely wrong for a Christian to compromise and their devotion to their faith wanes; but the more common ones I come across who are strong and faithful tend to be way too morally conservative to the point of ridiculous excess that it almost no longer seems like genuine Christian faith but more like Quakerism or somesuch.
One thing I absolutely know for sure is that no matter how well I get along with a girl, if she doesn't hold on to my moral, religious, and even political beliefs (in the general sense and on the biggest issues; I know two people can never be alike), I don't want to be with her, because I know it will bring me great sadness to be with a woman who doesn't hold on to these convictions and have God as her focus in life, because that's of utmost importance to me. But it just seems so hopeless sometimes because it feels like the only way I can experience someone in this way, in being a Christian married couple hopefully raising kids, I'll have to make a lot of changes to myself. Change and compromise are inevitable when you're bringing two people together, but for me this issue is less about "boobs and 'adult content' in movies" and more about overall morality and strictness and what's considered right and wrong. I don't want to be nagged at all my life because I told my son an innocent joke that's deemed by the wife to be inappropriate and sinful. I never want to be tied down to someone who's going to make me miserable in that way and who won't allow me to be myself.
And again, she's loosened up a lot in the nearly four years I've known her. When we first met, she thought I was the weirdest damn thing on the planet (well, still thinks that, but more used to it) and she used to get REALLY surprised at and worried about me because "YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING THAT!!!" To which I've always asked, "Why?" and she goes, "I...I.......I don't know!" I've explained to her my views on things, a lot of which she's thought deeply about and said, "That makes sense. I've never heard somebody put it that way." Which again she has to ask herself, "Does this make sense or am I compromising on my faith?" With her brain injury, I hate to say it but she doesn't always come to her own conclusions. That is, it's not exactly natural to her. I know she has a spark of her own identity because she tells me how her mom and her get into arguments over how to handle things, so I know she wants to do many things differently than what her mother's taught her to do. I just wonder how different she'll be regarding faith issues if she's out of the house and a bit detached from her overly-strict parents. I had strict parents too, but they allowed me to play video games and make certain jokes, and even the things they didn't care for they generally still allowed me to do. And I guess that's the difference: I honor my father and mother without thinking I have to obey every last word or inclination that they have. I listen to advice from them, but if I think about it and choose to go a different way, no harm. That's not dishonoring them. My relationship with God is between myself and Him; my parents should not be mediators, and I feel that in my friend's life, her parents are. I think they're overly protective of her not just because she's their daughter but also because of her brain injury. And it's a legitimate concern, there just comes a point where they need to let go; they've done an amazing job raising her, and she's almost 27 now, so perhaps she needs to start seeing the world through her own eyes and making her own decisions.
Also, weren't Catholics supposed to be more conservative than Protestants? Is it the other way around now?
From my own experience, Catholics tend to be much more liberal, both morally and politically. A lot of Catholic teens and young adults think they can get around the "no fornication" rule by having anal sex, because it's not actual intercourse if a vagina's not involved, amirite? A lot of Protestants—especially teens—are stupid in that way too, don't get me wrong, but a conservative Protestant is more likely (at least here in Minnesota) than a conservative Catholic.
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Well that's the thing though isn't it? Christianity does include thoughtcrimes, notably when it comes to men looking at women.*
27: Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29: And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30: And if thy right hand offend thee, cut if off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. - Jesus, Matthew 5
So from a Christian point of view her urging you to give up violent and sexually exploitative movies makes perfect sense. Lead yourself not unto possible temptation. If your movie watching habits possibly lead to a lustful gaze, pluck them out. (The movies etc. that is, easier to pluck than your eye.)
The most common criticism of this Christ-given decree I have heard is that if no man ever looked at a woman he wasn't married to lustfully, there probably wouldn't be any children born outside of arranged marriages, but hey I'm just reporting what Jesus says in the Bible.
*Women looking at men is not addressed so I guess it was assumed they wouldn't.
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Ha ha!
Most of my ex's have been so cool that they've gone and asked me "So what kind of porn are you into"?
You need a girl like that. Nice and naughty.
The cool catholic girls will say "I'm going to church. I'll be back in hour. Bye, love you!"
C'mon Freak, you're not living up to your namesake! :P :P :P
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Well that's the thing though isn't it? Christianity does include thoughtcrimes, notably when it comes to men looking at women.*
27: Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29: And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30: And if thy right hand offend thee, cut if off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. - Jesus, Matthew 5
So from a Christian point of view her urging you to give up violent and sexually exploitative movies makes perfect sense. Lead yourself not unto possible temptation. If your movie watching habits possibly lead to a lustful gaze, pluck them out. (The movies etc. that is, easier to pluck than your eye.)
The most common criticism of this Christ-given decree I have heard is that if no man ever looked at a woman he wasn't married to lustfully, there probably wouldn't be any children born outside of arranged marriages, but hey I'm just reporting what Jesus says in the Bible.
*Women looking at men is not addressed so I guess it was assumed they wouldn't.
The interesting thing about "lust" is that in English there's such a sinful connotation with it, but it ignores other areas of the Bible where such a word or one like it could be used. There's definitely such a thing as "good, healthy lust" that God would not condemn; it's what draws us to our spouse, what attracts a man to a woman, and I believe Jesus Himself even spoke about this kind of lust or attraction. (Can't think of the specific passage but my brother who is practically a genius and an astute Bible scholar was telling me about it some years ago.) The more negative form of lust is traveling one's mind down warned-against territory, having sexual fantasies about her. I think much of the problem with modern American Christianity is just how assumed so many things are based on the English translations and nothing more; no historical or lexicological context, just how we perceive it at face value and in our culture.
I wouldn't like a girl who's into porn. :p I despise pornography, as sex is something meant for two people in privacy. That said, I wouldn't mind being with a girl who admires the beauty of the female form and wouldn't freak out when some bouncin' jubblehz are on the screen. :o
And that handle's old as dirt. :p I'm not even sure what I meant by "Abnormal Freak" anyway; think it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.
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And this is that hard road where people on the left like me look at you and go "They still make people like you?"
And people on the hard right are like "You're not being uptight enough!".
There is no good, there is no evil... there is only FLESH.
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I am in agreement with everybody here about this girl. No real good can come from a relationship with such an uptight person. You've mentioned far more negatives about her then positives and this is ringing Nuclear air-raid klaxons in the back of my head. She's not ready for such a commitment of any kind until she "loosens up" a bit. If you say she is a really good friend then keep it that way. You need to find a woman who's on your level or more loose then you. They're the most fun to have around as they won't shove conservative religious opinions and dogmatic rules down your throat and expect you to digest it. That will just make you sick in the end. And why limit yourself to marrying someone of your faith? Why not just marry a woman whom shares your likes and dislikes. Someone who's not going to get on your case about the finer things in life that you enjoy. Someone who will be willing to share your life no-matter how 'abnormal' and 'freaky' it is. ;D
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One reason for marrying one of my faith is just my overall happiness. I know I won't be happy with an uptight and/or uppity believer, but neither will I enjoy being with a nonbeliever, particularly if children come into the equation.
There's also just the biblical principal of being unequally yoked; you can't have an ox and a donkey pulling a plow because they'll be at odds. Likewise you can't have a Christ-centered marriage work if you're not on the same page regarding your relationship with God. I know too many people who have married unbelievers and have been unhappy because of it; they love their spouse very much, but huge differences crop up in how to raise kids and the believer is ceaselessly praying for salvation for the other.
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And yeah, we're great friends, and one thing I DEFINITELY don't want to do is ruin that by dating her if it's not gonna work out. To answer a question raised earlier if I'd be happier having her or happier knowing she's with another guy who's better suited, it's definitely the latter; I don't want to be unfair to her by constantly being at odds just as I'd hate that for myself from her.
Blah... The more I rationalize things, the more obvious it becomes that it just ain't gonna work; not that I have to ditch the idea altogether but to put it on the backburner and see how things develop by themselves. If we stay friends, that's perfectly cool; hopefully I won't freak out and feel that I've missed my only chance. God may not intend for the two of us to be together, but one thing I definitely sense is that He's using our friendship and conflict resolving to prepare us for whoever it is we DO marry (if indeed we ever do).
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I cannot follow you down that rabbit-hole, but I will agree that your current relationship experiences do strengthen your future ones. Live a little. If you wanna date her, try it out. So what if it might not work out? There's some risk but the payoff might be cool.
And who knows? Maybe she'll loosen up, just how I hope you'll loosen up. Uptight freak, you.
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Man if I was a girl you guys would hate me. I'm over zealous in the gospel and in the church.
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I wouldn't hate you; I just wouldn't date you.
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Nothing wrong with a bit of zeal if it's focused on and culled from what Scripture actually teaches. But religious zeal (I'm talking Old Testament zeal here, held on to by sects of Judaism) isn't required of believers, and while I'm very adherent to Scripture, zealous I am not. I'm more laid-back and would need a girlfriend or wife equally so, I think.
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Yeah I've been trying to tone it down a bit. ;D
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I think porn (actual porn, not some dumb exploitation movie with lots of nudity) is going too far for most women...
You'd be surprised just how untrue this statement is. I know plenty of chicks that even like watching porn with their significant other. And, yes, some of them are even Christian. It has absolutely nothing to do with devotion or love either. Be honest, have you ever watched a porn video and suddenly felt less in love with someone? Probably not. But if you have, rest assured that you weren't really that into them to begin with.
But on the other areas I agree. Something that bugs me about the girl I'm really into is I'll sometimes bring up that it bugs me the way she gets after me about what I like, and she'll say, "But you don't like what I like!" to which I point out to her that I don't try to take that away from her; she's free to enjoy what she does, I realize it brings her great joy and it makes me smile because of it.
Deep Blue Something - Breakfast At Tiffany's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ClCpfeIELw#)
And I do agree that she must be pretty insecure if she's whipping up such a fury about boobs in movies. I've told her, "If I date a woman, it will be no small decision, and if her and I get married, I will be with her the rest of my life making it work out in any way I can and my love, devotion, and sexual attention will be HERS. No exceptions. And something I see in a movie isn't going to make me think, 'Gee, I wish my wife had knockers like those!' If a husband sees some outrageously pretty woman walking down the street and turns his head to notice, his wife shouldn't have fear because she ought to be comfortable in the fact that out of ALL the women in the world, he chose HER to be with." To which she replies, "I know the guy probably won't be that way, but to the girl it will ALWAYS be that way, always on her mind. She'll be comparing herself to these other women and being upset at even the THOUGHT that her husband could be doing the same." Which definitely sounds more like insecurity than something religious; I've thought about asking other Christian women I know (those my age, I mean) about this and find out what they have to say, but part of me's kinda timid about it, thinking that might be a little inappropriate. (And yeah, before anyone thinks it's all too weird we're discussing marriage both in a general sense and pondering about it when it comes to the two of us together, we're both of the mindset that we don't want to date anyone unless marriage is a good possibility, marriage being "the ultimate goal." So it'd be a little more like courting in that sense, though not strictly so.)
I recommend you both read this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-Agreements-Practical-Personal-Freedom/dp/1878424319 (http://www.amazon.com/Four-Agreements-Practical-Personal-Freedom/dp/1878424319)
It would do her good especially, because she seems to be locking herself into a pattern of thinking that is inviting jealousy and conflict.
Asking other women your age is a great idea. There's no need to be shy about it either. You're adults after all.
And she sees these as moral issues; my interest in exploitative entertainment has to do with spiritual immaturity, she claims, thinking God doesn't want that for my life. The odd thing is, over all the years I've given it extensive thought, I've never once felt God ring alarm bells like He has other areas of my life that I see now needed change, rather I'm always feeling guilted by other believers who have more a traditional way of thinking. I've told her this and said that even if I were to get rid of "objectionable" entertainment, it won't necessarily change me or kill my desire to enjoy those things, because I'd be doing it for her and not for God, and can she live with that? to which I haven't yet gotten an answer.
No offense to your faith, but one of the things that has always bothered me about the average Christian is the incessant presumption that they know God wants or thinks, much less what God might want or think for someone else. That sort of attitude of insisting the all minutia is a moral problem that only millennia old scripture that has been edited and reinterpreted countless times by those in power gives you the moral authority to dictate what is right and wrong for others was one of the things that cemented my rejection of organized religion. Plus half the time the Christians that have this sort of attitude don't even know what they're talking about since they, more often than not, haven't studied the oldest known versions of their own scripture and are just regurgitating what they've been told by their church officiators, but I digress somewhat.
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I know plenty of chicks that even like watching porn with their significant other.
No girl I wanna date, that's for sure. ;D
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No girl I wanna date, that's for sure. ;D
Your loss, brother. But to each, his own. ;)
Updated my above post.
PS- the chicks that dig strip clubs are even better.
Going to a strip club without a girl = a complete waste.
Going to a strip club WITH a chick = freakin' awesome.
I've done each once.
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If a girls' got problems with your hobbies, she's not worth having a life with. I was together with my ex 3 years, she knew I loved collecting games and even helped me with my hobby (what led to our demise, she kinda had the mind of a child at times with her family knowing about me other than her step brother. She was 6 years older than me as well, so no excuse not to have a more mature mind).
If I ever dated a chick, and she was an athiest, the moment she tells me I evolved from some monkey or cesspool, out she goes. Frankly I'm sick of the entire Christian vs Athiest debate as no one wins.
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If I ever dated a chick, and she was an athiest, the moment she tells me I evolved from some monkey or cesspool, out she goes. Frankly I'm sick of the entire Christian vs Athiest debate as no one wins.
Amen my friend
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**resists urge to post Bill Nye Creationism video**
EDIT: **fails**
Bill Nye: Creationism Is Not Appropriate For Children (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHbYJfwFgOU#ws)
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Nye is a gigantic talking nutsac, so screw that guy. :p
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LOL :P
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Next time she gets on your nerves, just look at her dead on and say,
"Look, can't we just be fuck buddies and get this over with before you say anything else to push me completely away from you? You're the most beautiful girl I've met and I want to do unholy things to you. I think you're a devout enough person that you can take it without becoming sinfully corrupted."
If she leaves you, you weren't meant to be.
Bitch doesn't respect you, period. She wants to twist you and corrupt you and turn you into her own fleshy doll. Don't let the whole religious/Christian/whatever thing fool you. It ain't about religion or righteousness, it's about her desire to control men around her. She probably has daddy issues. Maybe her mom was a total bitch to her dad and she now looks down on men that way. So just fuck the bitch, tell her the Devil made you do it, then go find a girl who doesn't want to cut off your hands and feet, gouge out your eyes, remove your tongue, and feed you vomit out of a doggy bowl.
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That's certainly one way to deal with it. :p
I do have a confession to make: I'm a total assman and I've never seen a finer patoot, so the thought of not being able to cradle that someday makes me pretty sad. ;_;
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Well, after some discussion, we decided to forget about the whole thing and just be friends. A lot of what was said here (in one way or another) confirmed a lot of things I was already thinking but kinda didn't wanna believe, and it just made sense to seek out some other girl. Or hey, no--single life's pretty cool so I'll stick to that until I run into a swell gal.
There's actually another girl I found mildly more interesting than the one I was after, but I don't know her that well and it's hard getting to know her when she's off in Taiwan teaching English to kiddies. But the one chance I get to see her during summers is a lot of fun, so I definitely wanna get to know her better. She's also really pretty and has a knack for wearing the cutest, classiest outfits and jewelry. She's also an animoo nerd and seems to be more open to "adult"-ish content than this other gal.
She also shares my frustration that today's Christians seem to think that a Christian's art should be Jesus-focused and nothing more. "What if I wanna draw something cool for the sake of it??? Why do they always suggest it's gotta be a project for Sunday school? AAAARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!" She's even expressed that there's a "necessity" of sorts for violence, profanity, and sex in certain stories, to which the gal I was after of course disagreed and they had a discussion.
So yeah, she seems like a damn cool gal and someone who'd be kinder to me. We'll see if anything happens...
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Sounds like a keeper except for the whole seeing her only in the summer thing.
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Absence makes the heart grow fonder. And yes this new woman sounds waaaay more open-minded then the other. Go get 'er. 8)
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I'm with Jorge and Uzo...this other girl sounds a lot better than the uptight one. :o
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Late to the party, as usual.
Anyway, seems like you worked things out for yourself. I agree that girl 1 seemed too different & inflexible on her views to be willing to compromise, which is a cornerstone of this wacky relationship business. Also, it may have been done out of love/protection/scared shitless over their daughter's possibly vegetable making brain trauma, but it sounds like she's never going to completely out from under their wings-speaking from personal experience, this is a deal breaker, I SHIT YOU NOT. (Long story & I know everyone is different, personal experiences vary, et. c., but your situation sounds way similar that of me & my ex-ended messy, we no longer speak).
In summary, keep girl 1 at arm's length, girl 2 sounds promising. Explore it, you kooky kid.
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Also, it may have been done out of love/protection/scared shitless over their daughter's possibly vegetable making brain trauma, but it sounds like she's never going to completely out from under their wings-speaking from personal experience, this is a deal breaker, I SHIT YOU NOT.
That's one thing that's been on my mind A LOT. I fear that she'll never fully leave her parents' overruling care. If she and I were to marry, I get the feeling that I'd never be allowed to be head of the house; instead I'd have her mother and maybe father as co-pilots, and the thought of that pisses me off to no end. When I do anything in a marriage, especially when it concerns raising kids, I want all the decisions to be between my wife and myself; I don't want others telling us how things should be done, and I feared that a lot in this girl.
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That's one thing that's been on my mind A LOT. I fear that she'll never fully leave her parents' overruling care. If she and I were to marry, I get the feeling that I'd never be allowed to be head of the house; instead I'd have her mother and maybe father as co-pilots, and the thought of that pisses me off to no end. When I do anything in a marriage, especially when it concerns raising kids, I want all the decisions to be between my wife and myself; I don't want others telling us how things should be done, and I feared that a lot in this girl.
You just described my past relationship...and why it's a past one. I could go on for days about this, but I'll just say you have made the right call, guy. Stick with it...for the love of God, stick with it.
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Nye is a gigantic talking nutsac, so screw that guy. :p
I'd just like to interject that I couldn't disagree more, Nye is the man!
Anyways sounds like you got this all sorted out. Which is good.
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Reviving this old thread to give a bit of an update to anyone who had been following before.
So we had made that decision not to date but remain friends instead. Sounded like a good idea at the time, and ultimately was the most sound decision, but it didn't prevent my heart from being crushed. After a couple weeks, it really hit me, and I experienced the most miserable four months of my life. I was in such a slump, and feelings of just wanting to die drowned me every day. It may seem silly, but I had wanted to spend my life with this girl. I was deeply in love; it wasn't just a very strong crush.
Eventually around May, I realized I needed to get out of what I was in. Started seeing friends more, putting myself out in the open, making changes to my life, doing things I'd never done before—anything just to stop being miserable. I couldn't enjoy any of the things I liked anymore.
Periodically I'd try to see her. She's kept herself busy, and in my opinion has kept herself from me, though she says otherwise. There just wasn't any communication or friendship. I think more than anything, her mom has kept her away from me. Perhaps for the best—best for me, I mean.
A friend of mine also told me that he and her had been discussing dating since April. I thought that was such crap that he went and did this while he knew I was still lovelorn and miserable. It was also such bullshit that she told me we couldn't ever talk about things and have proper closure (since the way we kind of ended it was far from ideal), and she simply said, "I need to be content in my singleness"; but here she's been talking to someone else about the possibility of dating. Nice one, presumably lying to me and not being straightforward.
I find out today via Facebook (fuckfuckFUCK) that she's dating my childhood friend, the one who was going for her. I won't go so far as to say he's no longer my friend, but I can, in the meantime, give a hearty "fuck you"—not to his face because I'm a pussy and I also don't want to regret anything I may say, but for the time being, he's a cocksucker and an asshole.
Ultimately I wish the two of 'em well, and he's the guy I thought would be better for her anyway, but I'm pretty miffed at how I've been disregarded in all this. There's obviously a lot I haven't said and don't wanna go into, because frankly I've tried my best just to forget all the details and move on, but I feel like a lot of things have been done behind my back and that there hasn't really been honesty in some of their responses to me.
My friend is kind of a bitch, though... Not once has he ever been the one to initiate hanging out, save for birthday parties when we were real young. I got super pissed at him about this (internally) but then a few days later he calls me up and asks to hang out. "Hot damn! Wouldn't ya know!" Sure enough, however, he mainly wanted to get together to tell me he's been talking with this girl for quite a while. So I can still say he's never once initiated getting together in our teen and adult lives. Because of that and because of him going for the girl when he did, I really don't want to see or talk to him right now. I don't want to be mean or harsh and tell him he's a dick, but I kinda just want to avoid the two of them—especially now that they're dating.
And that's another thing that peeves me off. When I talked with her a little bit last month, I had actually wanted to give it one last push. I thought, "Fuck this guy, I was here first," and I'll admit I was selfish, but at the same time I figured it had been this many months (this was early August) and I was still thinking about her a lot, that I needed to at least have some kind of closure—tell her what she meant to me (because I don't think I really conveyed that very well), see if there's a possibility for anything to happen, and if nothing else at least get things out there so I don't have to think about it anymore. It didn't work out; originally she was going to allow me an opportunity to talk with her privately and she thought that was a good idea, but it's obvious her whore-cunt of a mother told her not to—since she controls her life, after all—and because of that I never had a chance. So the girl, she gets in her last words, I tell her that's a bit unfair since I've never been allowed to say any words, and we decide just to drop it for good.
Regardless, it still acted as closure. I saw firsthand just how disgusting and manipulative her mother is and decided there's no chance I'd ever want that hellbeast as a mother-in-law, so it's enabled me to move on although still with a bit of sting. I've been happier these past few weeks, at least.
The gal, she tells me once her schedule has freed up, the three of us should go do something. I smile and say, "We'll see," and we haven't spoken since, nor have my buddy and I talked the past few weeks. I kind of just...need my space from the two of them right now. And I certainly wouldn't want to ever hang out again just the three of us. That's how it had been for years, but it can never be that way again, even though she can't seem to understand why. I'll give it some time, and if they want me along, I'll bring a friend—or heck, maybe even a girlfriend (if I find one; at the moment I just don't even care about dating). But there's no way we'll ever again be a trio, even if the two of them weren't dating: I just can't allow my heart to be in that kind of circumstance again, because it resembles a time when I was really thinking about her a lot.
To her, the possibility of dating me was an interesting idea, and one which she seriously considered for about five months. It's obvious that it was just her pondering, "Well, he's a good friend, maybe it'd work"; while to me, I had my eye on her for a number of years, and it was more than just that.
Anyway, this is just basically a "stream-of-thought" type post, just a little bit of venting to get this shit out of my brain. I realize there's a lot of missing information and it may not make a lot of sense, but it's more to vent than a psychiatric visit, heh. Some of my friends have heard enough and I'm tired of dragging myself down by making a big deal out of it, so I just wanted to spew this out somewhat anonymously. I'm actually kind of happy for them after I've let it sink in a bit. They're a better pair, even if I'm doubting that he can deal with her idiosyncrasies as well as I could have. He doesn't really know about them for one thing, since they haven't actually gotten close as friends until recently. Well, he can have the fun of dealing with her weird hang-ups due to her brain injury, and he can deal with her mentally ill mother. It's none of my concern anymore.
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Jeez sorry man. I had a friend snake me once like that long ago. She wasn't the one for me but I didn't know that at the time. It sucks and my friendship with my friend has never been the same.
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To be honest, if I had my eye on a girl and a friend of mine did, too, I might be a jerk and move in if the opportunity was there. I won't begrudge him simply for that, because men fighting over a woman has been going on since the dawn of time.
It still sucks to be "the loser." Though last night on my way home from delivery, before I knew the two of them are now dating, I thought about how fortunate I was to not be dating her, and what a sap I'd been for even considering the idea as much as I had. I was really unfair to myself to try to please her; I decreased my own value so that I could have a chance with someone who, frankly, isn't fit for me.
Well, I'm tired of devaluing myself.
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You're not the loser.
You cannot think of it that way.
It's like when you go to a job interview; you may be great, but you're not great 'for that one position'. Savvy?
You mentioned yourself that this girl was kind of crazy. You're not meant to be her savior, and she just did not see you as someone to get romantically involved with (perhaps because you guys knew one another so well... after a while, she starts to see you as a weird brother-like figure).
As for the snaking, it seems women tend to do that. At the beginning of this year I was talking to this one girl I was friends with for a while. She had some surgery done (brain surgery) so I was concerned as a friend, more than anything. I have fooled around with the girl a bit... not a home run but 2nd-3rd base, but since she got sick I kinda stopped doing that, but I still cared enough to visit her.
When her operation was successfully completed, I would visit her to her house. She was weak and frail so I came over and gave her some company (nothing naughty). At one point she flat-out said she did not feel comfortable dating anyone, due to both her past, and her condition.
I understood that, and just hung out with her as friends for a while, but kept my distance because I wanted to pursue something more than just friendship (I have enough female friends).
I found out that this other guy (her personal trainer) started putting the moves on her and all of a sudden they were 'boyfriend and girlfriend'. At first I was kind of upset, what with that whole talk she had about her past and her surgery impeding with things, etc... sounded like it was just talk to brush me off, etc...
Then I found out the guy tried to get too rough with her and she did not like that and dumped him, then started talking to me again and getting close.
At that point I realized that I'm not the problem, nor am I the loser; this girl just was prone to getting into trouble and making bad decisions (and avoiding good men like yours truly). It was then that I decided to make myself unavailable to her; not to ignore her, but to just stop visiting, wait until she makes time, or sends a text, etc. You know, just to see where her mind truly is regarding me, whether as a friend or otherwise.
I've not gotten a text from her since May. It only confirms the revelation I already had. You don't want to be with someone who doesn't find you the right fit.
Since then I've been with a few quality women, and I'm happier for it.
Freak, learn to move on. It's not you, it's them. You tried your best, but if you have obstacles like an annoying parent or something like that, then don't even bother. Don't get too attached too early.
It's the secret to my success.
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It's the secret to my success.
*cue daytime talk show theme music*
Thanks for the vote of confidence, yo. What you said about me not being her savior is exactly what I've been telling myself the past couple months. It's been like my mantra.
And I certainly became that weird brother-like figure to her. She explained me as more like an annoying little brother than anything. That kind of irritated me and I don't think women understand how that could be a bad thing.
Making yourself unavailable to the girl is the right move. I've been likewise with this gal. Not that she's yet gotten into contact with me, but what jumpstarted my whole "I'm gonna give one last push" line of thinking was I had just days before made the decision to stop talking to her, at least for a time. Deleted her from Facebook and all that, just to protect myself. She caught wind of this and sent me an email BEGGING me not to let her go or stop being her friend, even though she hadn't treated me like a friend this entire year, never making time for me or allowing me to say my piece or anything. It was some serious crap, and after a few days of mulling over it, I figured perhaps I had her attention and we could speak about things.
So I dunno. Like I said, we haven't spoken in a few weeks, not since right after all this went down (everything I said in the last post, that is). I let her know at least that there wasn't any animosity between us, that that wasn't my intention—though without explaining what my intentions really were, because spilling that to her gets me nowhere and just makes me more vulnerable. So we'll see if she really does want to hang out, but honestly, I'll just politely decline or have some reason for why I can't make it, making myself unavailable, as you said. I can't allow myself to be toyed with; I'm a pretty frail guy and it cuts too deeply, and I need to move on.
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The world can be a tough, cruel place.
Get thicker skin. :P :P :P
What is it that Denis Leary said?
"Life sucks, get a fuckin' Helmet, alright?"
I'm joking, but kinda not really. You seem to be a decent guy, but you shouldn't get too involved. And get out more, if you can. Meet people. Go to meetup.com and see if there are groups out there for stuff you like in your area, where you can make friends (especially more female friends). It's a good way to start meeting some new people, and perhaps some quality women, who like sort of like the same things you do. Who knows? You may meet someone that would find you the right fit for her and hit it off.
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@Freak She might have liked you in the beginning but you never made a move and it sounds like you've been friendzoned for longer than you think.
Either way, she doesn't give a damn about you. If she did she wouldn't be dating your friend and keeping you at arms' distance. You fucked up, but it sounds to me like you dodged a bullet because she sounds like a basketcase from your description. A basketcase is ok in the beginning but once you get tired of dealing with that shit, then what?
Don't call her. Dont talk to her. Don't see her. Don't Facebook her. If you do, you're just telling her that you have no self respect and if you don't respect yourself, then Why should she respect you? Do both of you a favor and cut her out of your life.
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Yeah, I'm with Doctamario on this. You're a good guy, Freak, and you don't need someone like that or the trouble she'll bring. As Jorge said, just gotta dust yourself off and get back on your feet.