Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: darkwzrd4 on January 26, 2013, 08:53:48 PM
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It is probably nothing, but I've had some thoughts lately regarding the potential of humans in the CV universe and what it could mean for Alucard. It's always bothered my how some seemingly ordinary humans can survive Dracula's castle. It's kind of hard for me to put this into words but I'm doing my best. For example, we have Hammer in the sorrow games. In AoS, you encounter him after you beat the Great Armor boss. How does he get around the castle? Even if he is a soldier and has weapons, there is no way he should be able to make it from where you meet him out to the front gate. He has no known supernatural powers and yet he makes it.
Could it be that there is some sort of hidden potential within all humans and the people who are "gifted with power" are simply born with a natural awareness and skill. If that is the case, it may mean that all anyone has to do is find a way to unlock it. As for where such power may come from, my guess would be the soul. Remember, in the sorrow games, Soma gains new abilities by "dominating" the souls of monsters he kills.
This could also account for why it seems that anyone can kill Dracula. Let's look at it. The Belmonts aren't the only ones who can beat him.
Now then, let's look at Alucard. As we all know, he is half-human and half-vampire. However, all he uses are weapons and his vampire powers. If what I said above holds any truth regarding the potential of humans, could that mean that he has some sort of untapped potential from his human half. If that is the case, Alucard could possibly the most powerful being in existence if he can tap into that potential. Possibly in a league of his own.
(And yes, I know what you all are going to say: I'm an Alucard fanboy and this is just wishful thinking.) This is just something that came to me and I thought that it might be worth exploring. So please, no flaming.
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Plot Device. Castle being creature of chaos and stops when the main character goes in. Characters get black panther ability when exiting the room.
It's just lazy scripting, lol. Like how in most older games, non-violent NPCs are invincible. Don't worry about it.
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For the Hammer part... Ever play a survival horror game? Soma, Alucard, the Belmonts, etc, are out to destroy the creatures that prowl about, and have the power to do so, but people like Hammer likely are just surviving by sneaking, and tactical take downs.
Why don't the heroes sneak then if it's easier? That's up to the player. Avoiding battles is an effective strategy, especially if you're hurting to health. You won't level up properly though. This is one of the reasons I don't like the leveling system in Castlevania games as it limits player options and effective tactics, but that's a topic for another day.
Another story explanation is time limitations on the hero's part. Hammer is in the room after the great armor, right? Likely the Great Armor moved to that room after Hammer went in, thus trapping him in there until Soma comes to save him. This is costly in time, and thus the heroes need to be confrontational in order to get their quest done before the objective is lost, whether it is to stop a resurrection, save a supporting character, or stop the war as quickly as possible.
Of course all supporting character's don't fall into this category. Others like Albus, Yoko, Julius, etc have the power to actually make it to where they are at any given point.
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I personally think feel that Alucard's ability to kill Dracula was due to his being related by blood. In other words using his positive (Human) side along with his dark powers he was able to bring down his father. This would also account for Shanoa as she used Dracula's powers (Dominius glyphs) to kill him but with the required assistance of the magical properties of the Belmont blood. The Belmonts already have their own supernatural powers inherent to their family alone. Even without the Vampirekiller they can still defeat Dracula. The mystic whip just makes it that much quicker. I think all humans in the CV universe have a special gift of untapped potential. But the main point and story of the game itself is the Belmont family VS Dracula. IGA has let this slip in several games making me question his motives for the Belmont's importance and place in the story. We also have Hector. While he's human he's also a Devil forge master; a power that rivals Death's but I my mind nowhere near to bringing him up to Dracula's level which would at least be needed to defeat him. There is also Nathan Graves in CotM. While I know now that he is not a Belmont (but I still think he is) he also brought Dracula down as did his parents before him, (I believe Nathan's mother was a daughter of Richter as the date and times are about right). Reinhardt is a Belmont by blood as well as Carrie Fernandez so no explanation required. Another blooded Belmont is Maria Renard so like Carrie, no explanation. While I believe that Humans have potential they do not have what it takes to beat Dracula. If they did, then the series as we know it would not exist. Castlevania isn't the type of game where anyone can kill the count. It wasn't made to be so. It's a part of what makes Castlevania, Castlevania. It just wouldn't be nearly as interesting or epic if any one person (say a drunken bum off the streets) could march right up to Dracula's castle, conquer it and then Kill Dracula himself. There's a reason why these games have their heroes; Bowser Vs Mario, Ganon Vs Link, Dracula Vs the Belmont family. This is not something someone can decide to change on a whim because they feel they can. Just like they cannot change the name Castlevania to something else because it just wouldn't be so.
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This could also account for why it seems that anyone can kill Dracula. Let's look at it. The Belmonts aren't the only ones who can beat him.
Actually, not anyone can defeat Dracula, although there are only a handful of exceptions besides the Belmonts. Hector was capable because his Devil Forgemaster abilities (said to be only second to Death himself, and the original plan was for Death to use Hector as Dracula's new vessel instead of Isaac, who was obviously the "weaker" D.F.)
Then we have Shanoa, who was indeed an "ordinary" human, but was imbued with the power of Dominus, Dracula's own magic which was the only technique she could use to destroy him. Otherwise Ecclesia would've been just another failed attempt like all the other organizations the game's prologue mentions.
Maria Renard's case should be a no-brainer, no explanation is needed.
Nathan Graves is debatable, since he's never actually confirmed as a Belmont relative although Hugh Baldwin hints that his "Hunter's Whip" has some magical ability similar to the Vampire Killer (if not the Vampire Killer itself, perhaps just the game's developers being creative/not doing enough research/mistranslation, but that's solely speculation & we'll never know the answer), so that may have been the sole reason he was able to defeat Dracula.
Henry Oldrey, I can't really speak for since I never beaten the game as him but I chalk it up to purely gameplay purposes with no story-specific reason why he can kill Dracula (not even sure if he even fights Dracula, haven't even unlocked him yet lol)
Albus, as said above can be chalked up to gameplay purposes, but to add a plot-theory, perhaps it's because he had the power of the Belmont relatives he "kidnapped," which aided him in his battle against Dracula.
Eric Lecarde is supposedly part of an offshoot of the Belmont family, so he has the inherent magical abilities that comes with their bloodline. Also Alucard created his spear to "compliment the power of the Vampire Killer." He wouldn't do this for any other ordinary human, imo.
Then there's Old Axe Armor, which can be argued that it isn't even human, just a machination of Dracula's power, so it has the natural ability to combat him lol.
So how can Hammer, who seemingly has no powers, just various weaponry, survive Dracula's castle? You forgot the Merchant from Harmony of Dissonance, which says he just "suddenly appeared in the castle & set up shop" or something like that, obviously via Dracula's magic. Maybe something similar happened to Hammer, and he got lucky that he didn't encounter any of the more dangerous creatures, like the Merchant did. Hah!
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Henry Oldrey, I can't really speak for since I never beaten the game as him but I chalk it up to purely gameplay purposes with no story-specific reason why he can kill Dracula (not even sure if he even fights Dracula, haven't even unlocked him yet lol)
Nope. He just rescues the children and they gtfo. As I recall, they explain he sneaks in while Reinhardt and Carrie are busy ripping the castle a new one.
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I always liked to imagine the Lecarde family were the result of Alucard and Maria's coupling, and then Alucard makes the spear for his child, then goes to take a nap because he's a horrible father figure. :P
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If the Lecarde family works with Alucard and Maria, then the Belmont family offshoots should work with Alucard and Sonia.
But that causes a lot of flamewars here. :P
Actually Hammer has high-grade equipment that can allow him to move around the castle. Unused dialogue in the DoS ROM show that he was gonna help the heroes somehow. In Serio's fighting game, they gave abilities to Hammer so you can play as Hammer: He has a Jetpack to help you perform the crazy jumps.
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I like your theory Darkwzrd. Actually it makes sense. In fact I think that Alucard was able to beat his father because he's half human.
Alucard is half vampire, and yet he's able to defeat his father who's the Lord of Vampires(or Prince of Darkness whatever). I always thought that because Alucard is half human, he's not affected that much by vampire weaknesses. You could say that his power comes from his soul, which is human. Plus Alucard can use holy relics, without his vampire half getting affected by it.
My point is that Alucard's power comes from his human half. If you compare Alucard and Dracula in terms of vampiric powers, clearly Dracula is stronger. But I think that Dracula can only be beaten by a human (kinda like his Hellsing counterpart) so even if he faces other vampires, he'll win for sure.But since all the ones who have been able to defeat him are humans, or half humans in Alucard's case, we can presume that Dracula can only be defeated by humans, because of their soul,and because they can use holy powers against him.
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No way is Alucard even in the same league as the Belmonts. The Belmonts are warriors of God. Trevor defeated Alucard in battle when Trevor was in his late teens/early twenties. Alucard, even with hundreds of years experience, was no match. If Richter and Alucard actually fought, Richter would have annihilated Alucard. Alucard may have been able to defeat his father because he wasn't at full power. He was prematurely resurrected by Shaft only a few years after his previous defeat. In other games, Dracula's "true form" is a huge, demonic monster. In SotN, his "true form" is of him just sitting on a demonic type of throne, while some times conjuring up previous fought enemies.
I always hated that the powers that be made non Belmonts be able to defeat Dracula, especially while using a weapon other than the Vampire Killer. In my opinion, the Belmonts are the chosen ones. Nobody else should be able to even stand a chance.
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Well you can't deny the fact that he managed to defeat him alone, even though he wasn't on full power. Trevor had to bring 3 other allies in order to defeat Dracula. I think this makes Alucard even more badass, especially if you take into consideration that he helped Trevor in Dracula's curse.
Oh and don't forget that if Alucard somehow didn't use the goggles given by Maria, he wouldn't have been able to see Shaft's orb, so he would have been forced to take out Richter.
If the Belmonts need the help of other warriors like the Belnades or the Lecarde family, or even Alucard, in order to defeat Dracula, then maybe they're not that supreme as we might think. Games like Simon's quest, and SOTN, have showed us that Belmonts are humans, and as such they can suffer a curse, or be controlled by a Dark priest. Julius even suffered from amnesia. They're humans, so they have weaknesses, and sometimes they need the help of other warriors,as it has been showed in Dracula's curse, and maybe in the 1999 game, if it ever comes out.
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If the Belmonts need the help of other warriors like the Belnades or the Lecarde family, or even Alucard, in order to defeat Dracula, then maybe they're not that supreme as we might think. Games like Simon's quest, and SOTN, have showed us that Belmonts are humans, and as such they can suffer a curse, or be controlled by a Dark priest. Julius even suffered from amnesia. They're humans, so they have weaknesses, and sometimes they need the help of other warriors,as it has been showed in Dracula's curse, and maybe in the 1999 game, if it ever comes out.
For the 1999 game, I believe that the Belmonts will be getting help from a lot of people as hinted by both the sorrow games.
I always hated that the powers that be made non Belmonts be able to defeat Dracula, especially while using a weapon other than the Vampire Killer. In my opinion, the Belmonts are the chosen ones. Nobody else should be able to even stand a chance.
The powers that be might be having whip fatigue thus they allowed other people to defeat Dracula.
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Oh and don't forget that if Alucard somehow didn't use the goggles given by Maria, he wouldn't have been able to see Shaft's orb, so he would have been forced to take out Richter.
And at the same time, he wasn't fighting at his fullest, purest strength being mind-controlled by an evil priest.
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Well you can't deny the fact that he managed to defeat him alone, even though he wasn't on full power. Trevor had to bring 3 other allies in order to defeat Dracula. I think this makes Alucard even more badass, especially if you take into consideration that he helped Trevor in Dracula's curse.
Oh and don't forget that if Alucard somehow didn't use the goggles given by Maria, he wouldn't have been able to see Shaft's orb, so he would have been forced to take out Richter.
If the Belmonts need the help of other warriors like the Belnades or the Lecarde family, or even Alucard, in order to defeat Dracula, then maybe they're not that supreme as we might think. Games like Simon's quest, and SOTN, have showed us that Belmonts are humans, and as such they can suffer a curse, or be controlled by a Dark priest. Julius even suffered from amnesia. They're humans, so they have weaknesses, and sometimes they need the help of other warriors,as it has been showed in Dracula's curse, and maybe in the 1999 game, if it ever comes out.
Just because Trevor allowed the others to join him, doesn't mean he needed their help. And had Alucard not used the Holy Glasses to destroy the orb that was controlling him, Richter most likely would have annihilated him. As already mentioned, Trevor defeated Alucard in battle, and Richter was way more powerful.
http://pachibee.7world.jp/movies/index/5561 (http://pachibee.7world.jp/movies/index/5561)
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Yeah, those are the "bad endings" of CV3. The good ending is when you beat Dracula on Hard Mode with just Trevor. Although it can be said beating the game on any mode with Sypha is the good ending.
giggity
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And if Alucard was able to defeat Dracula at full strength, there would have been no need for Trevor to intervene in the first place. The Belmonts could have retired. Alucard would have been the one to go up against his father every time he resurrected. However, of course, that's not the case. And Alucard even told Trevor that he needed his help to defeat Dracula after Trevor beat him. Even with hundreds of years of experience, Alucard is no match for a Belmont or Dracula at full strength.
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While there is no official reason for me to think this and it's pure speculation, I like to think that Hammer is a descendant of Grant.
In DoS, Hammer was supposed to fill the Grant role for the CV3 inspired extra mode. Hammer would have been the odd man out in that if he had no relation. Yoko is a Belnades, descended from Sypha (Or her family, anyway), Julius is a Belmont, Alucard is, well, Alucard so he's the same exact person. If Hammer were descended from Grant, that would not only explain why he would be part of the group, but also explain how he survived the castle.
Of course, he wasn't in the final product, and it's possible that him not making sense/not being related was part of why he didn't make it in as a playable character. But I like to think it was just cut for time and he was supposed to be related to Grant.
I also sometimes like to look at the difficulty of CotM and OoE as being because they're [more or less] ordinary people aided by magic and not super powered Belmonts and Belnades and such. Other times I think Nathan just beat Dracula with his Yu-Gi-Oh skills. Heart of the Cards and all that.
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But I like to think it was just cut for time and he was supposed to be related to Grant.
That's probably the case. Rippers have found Hammer's dialogue in the text dump indicating he was supposed to have joined. Although I don't know if they looked through the audio files.
Julius : You. Why are you here?
Hammer: Why? I'm here for Soma! My man's in trouble, I tell ya!
Julius: But it's of no concern to you.
Hammer: Heck yeah, it is! Soma's my pal, after all. Laying his life on the line for a pal... That's what a man does.
Julius : Wrong. An ordinary human is no match for a foe like this. Being a man has nothing to do with it.
Hammer: Hey, bud, I served in the military! I know weapons a whole lot better than you! And I'd like to think I've got enough sense to retreat if it gets too crazy.
Julius : Fine, then. But if you ever fear for your life, get out immediately, understood?
Hammer: Loud and clear. You have my word.
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And here I thought Hammer was just a badass who didn't give a frak. Being a descendant of the Danesti family would be pretty winsome though...
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Well you can't deny the fact that he managed to defeat him alone, even though he wasn't on full power. Trevor had to bring 3 other allies in order to defeat Dracula. I think this makes Alucard even more badass, especially if you take into consideration that he helped Trevor in Dracula's curse.
Oh and don't forget that if Alucard somehow didn't use the goggles given by Maria, he wouldn't have been able to see Shaft's orb, so he would have been forced to take out Richter.
If the Belmonts need the help of other warriors like the Belnades or the Lecarde family, or even Alucard, in order to defeat Dracula, then maybe they're not that supreme as we might think. Games like Simon's quest, and SOTN, have showed us that Belmonts are humans, and as such they can suffer a curse, or be controlled by a Dark priest. Julius even suffered from amnesia. They're humans, so they have weaknesses, and sometimes they need the help of other warriors,as it has been showed in Dracula's curse, and maybe in the 1999 game, if it ever comes out.
well yeah but also games like cv cva cvbr also showed us that belmonts can take dracula by themself's out in fact in the cv chronicles instruction manual was it not said that it has been at least 100 years or something since dracula(dracula is suppose to be at full when it's 100 years right?) was around that and something about easter day while cva/br showed Christoper beating him not once but twice in his much later years.
Other times I think Nathan just beat Dracula with his Yu-Gi-Oh skills. Heart of the Cards and all that.
Now I wish that if konami made a remake the god cards should be there or at least a blue-eyes white dragon
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It's a part of what makes Castlevania, Castlevania. It just wouldn't be nearly as interesting or epic if any one person (say a drunken bum off the streets) could march right up to Dracula's castle, conquer it and then Kill Dracula himself.
That would be a interesting plot for a fangame, imagine the bum throwing baptized water as a sub-weapon and a old bread that is hard as a rock to attack. Castlevania: Chant of Misery. xD
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You can't simply underestimate Alucard's power. You have to take in consideration of his powers, but he would most definitely lose to Richter if he was at full strenght and even Dracula at full power but I always like to think he has a slim chance against richter given the fact that he can change into mist to dodge his HYDRO STORM!! or Grand Cross, but then again Richter is the one with more abilities even Physical considering Alucard has lesser powers, Hellfire? Richter can simply Backflip from the flames. Soul Steal? No way. I doubt it would be able to steal a soul of a human, Tetra Spirits? Richter would use his cross or bible to dispel it so yeah the ONLY thing that could probably save alucard's butt is if he used his mist form to dodge most of belmont's attacks but he would grow tired after using so much that it leaves him fatiqued and BAM Richter gets the killsmack. Now lets not talk about Hero-VS-Hero because that would never happen -_-
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That would be a interesting plot for a fangame, imagine the bum throwing baptized water as a sub-weapon and a old bread that is hard as a rock to attack. Castlevania: Chant of Misery. xD
I'm imagining the bum would use a Molotov cocktail. ;D
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I always liked to imagine the Lecarde family were the result of Alucard and Maria's coupling, and then Alucard makes the spear for his child, then goes to take a nap because he's a horrible father figure. :P
I've always imagined that the Lecardes were Alucard's and Maria's adopted children, given Alucard's rather dismal opinion of his own blood.
While there is no official reason for me to think this and it's pure speculation, I like to think that Hammer is a descendant of Grant.
I thought so as well, but isn't there a confirmed descendant of Grant in that book sequel to DoS?
It's more likely that Hammer went all Metal Gear Solid in the castle like others have said.
Alucard is powerful; I don't care to get into a debate about whether or not he's stronger than X Belmont, but we've seen him do some pretty impressive stuff both in terms of intelligence and physical feats. Unlike the Belmonts, he isn't restricted by time; he's almost certainly progressed in every respect. He's undeniably much more powerful and skilled than he was in the 1470's, where, if I'm doing my math right, he was not very old all things considered. As to whether or not he has untapped power from his human side... eh. I think Alucard's human side is supposed to manifest most strongly in his personality/decisions rather than his physical skills, though it's worth noting that he can use holy items.