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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: The Most Curious Thing on April 23, 2013, 03:41:02 AM

Title: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: The Most Curious Thing on April 23, 2013, 03:41:02 AM
This started off as curiosity about the exact path of the fabled solar eclipse of 1999 (Saros 145 (http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsaros/SEsaros145.html) Member 21 (http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsearch/SEsearchmap.php?Ecl=19990811)), but that got me thinking about whether or not "Dracula's Castle" as it exists within the real world and/or Bram Stoker's novel can be found along the path of total eclipse, and whether "Dracula's Castle" as it exists within the Castlevania mythos can be identified with that castle.

First things first, I recommend taking a look at the second eclipse link above; you'll find that not only does the path of total eclipse pass right over Romania, but the point of greatest eclipse (the "GE" marker on the NASA map, 45.0759°N 24.2983°E) is right in the middle of modern-day southern Romania -- i.e., Wallachia. That grabbed my immediate attention and I believe the point of greatest eclipse may have some bearing on the location of the castle.

Anyway, from what I know, there are four castles within the real world and Dracula that can lay claim to the title of Dracula's Castle:

A fictional castle atop Mount Izvorul Călimanului
Location: 47.1342°N 25.2886°E
Length of total eclipse: N/A
Distance from greatest eclipse: 241 km
(click to show/hide)
Bram Stoker's research notes and modern maps have revealed this to be the location of Dracula's Castle in Dracula. Since there's never been a castle at that location, the castle is entirely fictional. It also falls well outside the band of total eclipse and isn't even close to the point of greatest eclipse. That being said, since there's nothing to suggest that the character Dracula in Dracula was actually Vlad III -- but rather any given noble from the House of Drăculești -- and since Castlevania has a closer connection to Dracula being Vlad III with Dracula's Curse taking place in the year of Vlad III's death (1476), Dracula is very clearly outside the Castlevania canon (the Morrises be damned) and this castle is very clearly not Dracula's Castle in Castlevania.

Castelul Corvinilor (Corvin Castle)
Location: 45.7492°N 22.8883°E
Length of total eclipse: 131 seconds
Distance from greatest eclipse: 133 km
(click to show/hide)
Of the four castles this has the longest length of total eclipse, only 12 seconds shorter than the greatest eclipse. But the connection to Dracula is tenuous: after being routed by a combination of the Ottomans, his younger brother Radu, and his former boyars, Vlad III went west to Hungary to seek help from Matthias Corvinus (yeah -- that guy), who betrayed and imprisoned him in Corvin Castle to stay out of war with the Ottomans. History isn't even particularly clear on how long he was imprisoned there. Very poor connection altogether despite being right on the path of total eclipse.

Castelul Bran (Bran Castle)
Location: 45.5150°N 25.3672°E
Length of total eclipse: N/A
Distance from greatest eclipse: 97 km
(click to show/hide)
This is a tourist trap and doesn't seem to have any special connection to Dracula apart from Vlad III spending occasional time at the castle. And it's not even in the path of total eclipse despite being reasonably close to the point of total eclipse.

Cetatea Poenari (Poenari Citadel)
Location: 45.3537°N 24.6352°E
Length of total eclipse: 102 seconds
Distance from greatest eclipse: 41 km
(click to show/hide)
Poenari, ironically, is more of a citadel than a castle, but the military ramifications of that may reflect well on the Dracula of Castlevania. At 102 seconds the length of total eclipse is shorter than that at Corvin Castle -- but still more than long enough for the forces opposing Dracula in the Demon Castle War to "do something" to seal the castle inside the eclipse. And it's only 41 km (about 25 miles) from the point of greatest eclipse. Furthermore, it has the strongest connection to Dracula: though built in the 13th century, Vlad III himself rebuilt and strengthened the clifftop fortress of Poenari early in his reign, and it served as his stronghold during the war with the Ottomans I mentioned above. Everything points to Poenari being "Dracula's Castle."

Of course there's nothing to suggest that the castle sealed inside the 1999 solar eclipse is even a castle that exists -- in reality or fiction -- outside Castlevania. But it was fun to find out that, without any further information, everything points to that being logically feasible.
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Inccubus on April 23, 2013, 04:49:07 AM
That's some pretty cool research. The only thing I can add though, is that Castlevania (as in the fictional demonic entity that serves as Dracula's castle) has been know to materialize in various locations even as far away as England.
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Chernabogue on April 23, 2013, 05:05:39 AM
Quote from: Inccubus on April 23, 2013, 04:49:07 AM
That's some pretty cool research. The only thing I can add though, is that Castlevania (as in the fictional demonic entity that serves as Dracula's castle) has been know to materialize in various locations even as far away as England.
Wasn't Elisabeth's castle in England? I think it was called "Proserpina Castle" or something like this.

Anyway, nice research, TMCT, very interesting to read.
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on April 23, 2013, 06:05:53 AM
Wow very interesting research.  :)
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: X on April 23, 2013, 02:44:46 PM
Quote
Wasn't Elisabeth's castle in England? I think it was called "Proserpina Castle" or something like this.

You're correct. Castlevania has never materialized anywhere else in the world except for different locations in Wallacia (Dracula's homeland and where his power resides). The castle that appears in England is Castle Proserpina brought about by Elizabeth Bartly (Bathory).

As for the research done on the Eclipse I thinks it's pretty interesting. No-doubt IGA found out about this and used it as a plot device for AoS's story.
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: TheouAegis on April 23, 2013, 02:56:46 PM
I don't think it would be Poenari. I suspect it's Corvin. Dracula wouldn't want to reside in the same castle used to defend against the Ottomans. That was a tragic time in European history and was a strong point in the history of the Church. Corvin makes more sense because he would want to take the central point of all his angst as the center of his power. He would probably also want to avoid conflict, both from the vampire hunters and from the Ottomans and the Church.
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Lelygax on April 23, 2013, 08:48:47 PM
Bran castle can possibly be Brams Mansion from CV2?
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Rudolph LagnaGaisaer on April 23, 2013, 10:52:12 PM
Quote from: Inccubus on April 23, 2013, 04:49:07 AM
That's some pretty cool research. The only thing I can add though, is that Castlevania (as in the fictional demonic entity that serves as Dracula's castle) has been know to materialize in various locations even as far away as England.

The Castle , in my project will appear in HammerFest . in the hellish time of winter. too far from Romenia or is a too odd place ?
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: son_the_vampire on April 24, 2013, 10:30:21 AM
Great research! ur right Lely, it could in fact be Castle Bran. I ask my best friends wife from Romania all the time about that castle. She always replies that there are better castles there, but never gives me a lick of insight. I think she knows something that i dont know. I dont do it to offend her but she seems very reluctant to talk about it. i should talk to her again about this, but this time using a different approach. Anything she is willing to speak on, ill be more than willing to share with you all!
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: darkmanx_429 on April 24, 2013, 01:07:53 PM
That's some damn cool research!
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: The Most Curious Thing on April 24, 2013, 01:50:58 PM
Man, all this eclipse talk makes me want to replay AOS for the tenth anniversary. For what feels like the tenth time  :rollseyes:

More food for thought: this (http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsearch/SEsearchmap.php?Ecl=20170821) is the solar eclipse that fell in-between the 1999 and 2035 eclipses, in the year of Soma Cruz's birth. Since the total eclipse passes right over America, the English version of Aria of Sorrow's claim that Soma is an exchange student seems to make more sense than the Japanese version's claim that he's just an ordinary Japanese student. How would he become Dracula's vessel if he wasn't born on 1999/8/11 or wasn't born under the same total eclipse in 2017?

Quote from: X on April 23, 2013, 02:44:46 PM
As for the research done on the Eclipse I thinks it's pretty interesting. No-doubt IGA found out about this and used it as a plot device for AoS's story.

Definitely, I have to give IGA a lot of credit for trying to connect his stories to real events/people. Matthias Corvinus is another good example of that.

Quote from: TheouAegis on April 23, 2013, 02:56:46 PM
I don't think it would be Poenari. I suspect it's Corvin. Dracula wouldn't want to reside in the same castle used to defend against the Ottomans. That was a tragic time in European history and was a strong point in the history of the Church. Corvin makes more sense because he would want to take the central point of all his angst as the center of his power. He would probably also want to avoid conflict, both from the vampire hunters and from the Ottomans and the Church.

Interesting thought. I wonder if a remake of Dracula's Curse (apart from just being awesome) would make that clearer.

Quote from: Lelygax on April 23, 2013, 08:48:47 PM
Bran castle can possibly be Brams Mansion from CV2?

I believe it's actually "Brahm's Mansion" in English, and either way I think it's just a reference to Bram Stoker.
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: crisis on April 24, 2013, 02:33:15 PM
Indeed, IGA also made a reference to Nostradamus when he wrote in one of his many Quatrains,

"The year 1999, seventh month,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror.
To bring back to life the great King of the Mongols,
Before and after Mars to reign by good luck."


Say what you will about IGA's methods & formulaic games, but you can't deny the research with the eclipses & scenario he devised for AoS was damn brilliant.
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Inccubus on April 24, 2013, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: Lelygax on April 23, 2013, 08:48:47 PM
Bran castle can possibly be Brams Mansion from CV2?

I had the same thought. The japanese text is clearly "buraMu". However, this can be attributed to a typo, or a purposeful change.

As for the castle in England not being an incarnation of Castlevania... well that's damn ironic that it is the most 'creature of chaos' like. I mean it actually changes as you're playing. That seems pretty worthy of being labelled as a Castlevania. Oh well. I call that a missed opportunity story wise. But it does shed some light on the game's Japanese title being "Vampire Killer" and not "Akumajou Dracula".
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on April 25, 2013, 12:05:41 PM
IGA loves writing scenarios for the Castlevania series. That AoS plot proves he really is giving a lot for the series.

Where are you IGA?
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Koutei on April 26, 2013, 02:03:49 AM
I knew it.

http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,2578.msg46070.html#msg46070 (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,2578.msg46070.html#msg46070)

OLD my site (http://www.oocities.org/nec43xkq3/aosjg.html) (translate.google.coml (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=ja&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oocities.org%2Fnec43xkq3%2Faosjg.html&act=url))
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on April 26, 2013, 07:49:17 AM
There's gonna be a partial solar eclipse in northen europe for 2037.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_eclipse_of_January_16,_2037 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_eclipse_of_January_16,_2037)

Edit: Yeah, this is the solar eclipse mentioned in the novel. The first page clearly said on a certain day in January 2037.
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Lelygax on May 02, 2013, 12:02:02 AM
A great opportunity to un-seal Castlevania :P
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on May 02, 2013, 03:09:33 AM
Which was exactly what happened in the novel, though since the eclipse was partial, the castle is not complete.
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Dark Nemesis on May 02, 2013, 09:12:36 AM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg96%2F7826%2Fdemoncastlewarcomicpage.jpg&hash=db6b77dc04524b1c7713438035ff28c076352ca8)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg198%2F3366%2F02bywhittingtonrhettd5q.jpg&hash=4dd9439763269967352c8d04469256963f0b0491)
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: X on May 02, 2013, 02:33:35 PM
Nice comic! I also like they way Julius was done. Definitely worthy of the name Belmont.
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: crisis on May 02, 2013, 04:04:30 PM
Am curious.. how would the "100 year rule" work had Soma succumbed to the dark side? Would he only resurrect everytime there was an eclipse? Any theories?
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on May 03, 2013, 12:56:32 PM
In my opinion, perhaps he would only be resurrected when a total solar eclipse happens since drac's resurrection is tied up with the resurrection of the castle. And we all know that the castle was sealed inside a total solar eclipse.

 The 100 year rule only applies to old drac.
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: X on May 03, 2013, 03:04:57 PM
Quote
Am curious.. how would the "100 year rule" work had Soma succumbed to the dark side? Would he only resurrect everytime there was an eclipse? Any theories?

Had Soma become Dracula once more I don't believe the solar eclipse could hold him back anymore. Both He and Castlevania itself would no-doubt return to their homeland of Romania and the cycle of Belmont's Vs Dracula would pick up where it left off. The eclipse acts as a prison for Castlevania so long as Dracula was gone. But once Dracula returns then the eclipse can no-longer contain it. Dracula would simply use his powers and return to earth with his castle in tow. This was never done in AoS so I don't know for sure.
Title: Re: The relationship between Dracula's Castle and the 1999 eclipse
Post by: Lelygax on May 05, 2013, 11:47:46 PM
^^THIS^^

I think more or less like that, Dracula could destroy this seal in my opinion. I think that he even could make a total eclipse happen if he wanted to.