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Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: crisis on May 10, 2013, 05:53:55 PM

Title: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: crisis on May 10, 2013, 05:53:55 PM
Use this thread as an outlet to vent your opinions on all these superhero movies that have been released/soon to be released/previously seen. Best/worst adaptations, etc.

I watched Iron Man 3 recently [through.. questionable means..] and, I don't know what to think of it. The CGI is incredible, blends perfectly with the "real" stuff & actors. RDJ was literally born to play Tony Stark, his performance in all the movies was nearly spot-on. But this movie.. I dunno. Maybe it's the fact that the third movie in most Hero franchises always deals with the "defeated hero rises from the ashes" motif. Just something about it left more to be desired. The fact that
(click to show/hide)
. It's kinda obvious that RDJ sorta wants to move away from Tony Stark for a while, at least until he renegotiates his contract, and you can see hints of this towards the third act of the movie. Oh yeah, the after credits scene
(click to show/hide)

I'm kinda looking forward to "Guardians of the Galaxy," many haven't even heard of the property until Marvel announced it. But this is supposedly gonna tie into Avengers 2, Thor 2, Ant-Man, etc. Especially since they're leaning towards Thanos & the "Infinity Gauntlet" storyline (The Infinity Gems gives the wielder unlimited power to literally alter reality, to the uninformed.)

X-Men: Days of Future Past has a lot to live up to; First Class was okay, but the debacle that was X-Men The Last Stand & Origins: Wolverine has tarnished the franchise. This movie should fix all the continuity errors in the X-Men movies (and believe me, there's A LOT. For example: Xavier walking and gathering a young Scott(Cyclops) & friends to the helicopter in Origins when he was paralyzed at the end of First Class, and Xavier/Magneto meeting young Jean in the prologue to Last Stand, once again Xavier walking, and him & Magneto still working together despite having their falling out in First Class.)

Then there's "The Wolverine" which takes place AFTER The Last Stand.. I just don't know what to think of the franchise anymore. Marvel needs to get the rights back from FOX. Fantastic Four is being rebooted, too. I think a Spawn reboot would be pretty cool, under Guillermo Del Toro's camp.

Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 10, 2013, 06:16:14 PM
I totally agree with what they did to Mandarin in Iron Man 3. Not the first time that i've seen the movies butcher things but this was too much. Luckily though i laughed through the entire movie so props there. Now far as The Wolverine, id like to see where they are headed with this. Just a little play on all the events in Japan. Im a longtime Marvel fan but i think my movie of choice is Superman. It seems from every trailer that they may finally do this movie right. Personally i believe that they bit a little off of Thor's leg (btw don't really care for part 2) but its for the best because Batman has reigned supreme over Superman movie-wise for too long. Interesting plot and i hope that there is justice done for his character. No more goody-good Superman please???!??? Maybe if its not a total flop, they can bring Wonder Woman out ( Megan Fox  :o) and start the Avengers/Justice League wars every summer! Finally, Will Smith is his own super-hero entity so i definitely look forward to what he's gonna bring to the table in After Earth.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Pfil on May 10, 2013, 07:46:26 PM
I really loved First Class, it's one of my favourite movies of the genre.
But I believe the best ones so far are the 1st and 3rd of the Nolan's Batman's films (not TDKR, I didn't like it very much).

About the huge mistakes on the X-Men continuity, just think of Xena The Warrior Princess and anything goes... "A wizard did it".
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on May 10, 2013, 09:02:26 PM
I totally agree with what they did to Mandarin in Iron Man 3. Not the first time that i've seen the movies butcher things but this was too much. Luckily though i laughed through the entire movie so props there. Now far as The Wolverine, id like to see where they are headed with this. Just a little play on all the events in Japan. Im a longtime Marvel fan but i think my movie of choice is Superman. It seems from every trailer that they may finally do this movie right. Personally i believe that they bit a little off of Thor's leg (btw don't really care for part 2) but its for the best because Batman has reigned supreme over Superman movie-wise for too long. Interesting plot and i hope that there is justice done for his character. No more goody-good Superman please???!??? Maybe if its not a total flop, they can bring Wonder Woman out ( Megan Fox  :o) and start the Avengers/Justice League wars every summer! Finally, Will Smith is his own super-hero entity so i definitely look forward to what he's gonna bring to the table in After Earth.
I don't know about Superman. Snyder is really hit-or-miss and he's almost, IMO, a "Lesser Michael Bay" regarding his whole "style over substance". That and the recent thing I heard regarding Superman NOT being weak to Kryptonite. I think they commented something about how his only weakness is his feelings of isolation(as being the only person with super powers and the only alien on Earth). I laughed at a quip someone commented on the article regarding "Emo Superman". Though, even in a lesser way, do we REALLY have to change these super heroes(or villains) SO MUCH just so they can be accepted by a modern pop cultural taste? Why can't they be celebrated for what they are instead of regugitated by the mouth of "popular trend"? Their original identies, weaknesses, strengths, are all pretty damn cool and are part of what makes them THEM. Be it the Mandarin or the "Man of Steel"(even though Mandarin seems more drastic of a case, though we'll have to wait to see how Superman fairs to judge him correctly).

I think the thing regarding the Mandarin that hurts more than him being written like that is the fact that MARVEL wrote him like that(or at least Marvel/Disney saw it as a good idea not to interfere and roll with it). If it was some other studio, you could alwasy chalk it down to the, "Hehehehe, well, it's just SONY being stupid!" or "It's just Fox trying to cater to yadda yadda...", kinda like thinking that maybe Marvel would've done better. The Fantastic Four movies were HORRIBLE, but maybe Marvel would've done it justice. To see them pull that crap with the Mandarin.... it's like no studio's safe. EVERYBODY's making asinine calls regarding super hero movies. Of course, Warner Bros/DC's been doing that for a while(which is kinda sad in itself, as Green Lantern COULD'VE been good). I don't know, it almost seems like those studio executives think on a whole different level of idiocy. Like they are living in their own little dimension where good is bad and bad is good, and yadda yadda. It's like they are from Bizarro World.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on May 11, 2013, 02:01:07 AM
I think the reason why they butchered Mandarin was a political one. US does not want to anger China with all these political tensions in Asia.

In my opinion, there is no actress of recent years worthy of taking Linda Carter's mantle as Wonder Woman.

First Class is an epic bromance movie! I love it. hehehe. I am expecting a good sequel.

Regarding Thanos and the infinity gauntlet, they might save it for Avengers 3.
I hope Guardians of the Galaxy is good.

The movie franchise rights of all those superhero films must be realigned. things are just so all over the place right now.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: A-Yty on May 11, 2013, 03:08:44 PM
Agree about Mandarin. I'm not an Iron Man fan, but still. Besides, the whole scenario was a complete waste of Ben Kingsley.

Random trivia. Guy Pearce is apparently kind of an asshole. When they were filming Memento and there was a scene where his character fought with another guy, he asked the other actor if it was okay to not hold back in the fight to make it look real. The guy said no problem and Pearce started pummeling him for real real, not for play play.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: X on May 11, 2013, 03:55:02 PM
I have yet to see Superman: The Man of Steel, but I already don't like what they've done with his outfit. It's too dark for superman. The only time I'd expect to see a dark superman outfit is if he was exposed to a chunk of counterfeit Kryptonite like what happened in Superman III. No-one, not even Hollywood should mess with an already good thing. The outfit in Superman: Returns was also more darker then it should have been but at least it was still closer to what we all know to be superman's. But if this new movie is going to do Superman any sort of justice then hopefully they'll keep the original John Williams superman theme as nothing to date in terms of superman has ever topped it.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: uzo on May 11, 2013, 06:44:49 PM
I like the plot line of what they did in Ironman 3, since it's a great twist in itself. However, I don't know if using the Mandarin for that was the best of choices. Perhaps wasted potential on that front.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Lone Wolf on May 13, 2013, 06:48:31 AM
Okay... One thing i couldn't understand nor accept in the other Iron Man movies..
Why did they replace Terrence Howard for Don Cheadle? Why didn't they keep the same actor? I think he was great in the first movie and i bet he would give it a nice partner for Iron Man in the other ones, too.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: crisis on May 13, 2013, 12:23:34 PM
Same reason they replaced Edward Norton with Mark Ruffalo as Hulk.. contract issues, etc.

One thing that bugged me about Iron Man 3's plot was that when you strip all the fancy toppings away, it's the same typical "jaded industrialist wants revenge on Tony" plot.. same as the previous 2 flicks.

Quote
But if this new movie is going to do Superman any sort of justice then hopefully they'll keep the original John Williams superman theme as nothing to date in terms of superman has ever topped it.

They already confirmed that the classic theme won't be used.. they're starting from the ground up with this movie (which should be expected.. I mean, can you imagine if they used the classic Tim Burton Batman theme in the Nolan movies?) And supposedly, depending how well it does (which is a no-brainer, Man of Steel is one of the most anticipated movies in a long time) will determine how Justice League will be made in 2015.


How do you guys feel about Jamie Foxx playing Electro in Amazing Spider-Man 2? Other than that, Paul Giamatti is set to play The Rhino as well.

And then there's the Ninja Turtles reboot... which imo will be hit or miss. Megan Fox is playing April O'Neil.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: uzo on May 13, 2013, 01:20:05 PM
And supposedly, depending how well it does (which is a no-brainer, Man of Steel is one of the most anticipated movies in a long time) will determine how Justice League will be made in 2015.

I think you mean IF it will be made. The Justice League movie hangs in the balance for real. If Man of Steel tanks, then the entire project is off the map.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: A-Yty on May 13, 2013, 01:27:29 PM
I wonder if they start building the JL movie universe in Man of Steel. Logic says yes. But if they're going to introduce all JL members individually like Marvel, it's gonna be a tough road. There's no continuing from that turd of a Green Lantern movie, for example. But making a reboot GL movie now would not be smart, because the failure is fresh in memory. If I were Warner, I'd do Wonder Woman (heh) next. Then Batman. The Big Trio is what counts at this point. If I were to do solo movies for JL members, it would be after the movie. But I really think DC should do its own thing instead of just ape the Avengers method of introducing the characters.

Also, the reason this Superman might seem strange is that DC/Warner is having some legal issues with the relatives of Superman's creators. At least at one point they couldn't use things like Lois Lane as Superman's squeeze and so on. Don't know if that stuff is settled now.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: uzo on May 13, 2013, 01:45:32 PM
Warner Bros is aping it, because Marvel made a boat load of money from the Avengers project. This is one reason I'm not convinced the Justice League movie will be anywhere near as good. It was started because WB wants in on the cash cow. Not because of any artistic vision, or grand plans. It's seen as a cash grab super plan. Given the track record so far, new Batman aside, they have done an extraordinarily piss poor job at live action DC Comic movies.

I pray it doesn't suck, but I have the feeling WB just isn't doing it for the right reasons, and the project will suffer as a result.

When talking about the animated TV and movie productions though, DC beats the pants off of Marvel. If you want an excellent Superman movie go watch Superman VS The Elite. It is probably one of the best superhero movies I've seen, animated or not.

Why are these people not in charge of the live action movies?
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: A-Yty on May 13, 2013, 02:35:11 PM
I've seen Superman vs The Elite. And I agree that DC owns Marvel on the animated front. Video game front too, it seems.

Superman Vs. The Elite actually makes a good point about why the desire to see Superman go on Punisher mode is short-sighted. It's actually more about people not liking Superman's style instead of thinking his ideals are antiquated and his methods are ineffective. It's addressing the audience as much as the people in the movie.

Now that I think about it, they should do a Batman & Superman movie before any other team-up movie. That's the best way to balance the boy scout ways of Superman and add variety to the post-Nolan Batmanverse. Not to mention they are the two DC characters the bigger audience actually cares about. End the movie with the arrival of Wonder Woman or Green Lanter getting his ring or something like that.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: X on May 13, 2013, 02:36:46 PM
Quote
Why are these people not in charge of the live action movies?

Good question... But you know Hollywood.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Lone Wolf on May 14, 2013, 07:47:41 AM
Why are these people not in charge of the live action movies?
Good question... But you know Hollywood.

Hm... This made me think of how different they made the X-Men movies from the animated series for some reason..
I mean, the "adaptation" of Wolverine(for example) to the mature public, including the changes in his costume and the emphatization of his "temper", specially in one little scene you may know very well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4b7gEu7b74 (http://"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4b7gEu7b74")

Yeah.. That scene.. :P
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: uzo on May 14, 2013, 02:19:47 PM
X-Men is Marvel, not DC. Also, X-Men movies are not made by Marvel, nor given nearly as much care it would seem.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: X on May 14, 2013, 02:35:19 PM
I didn't mind the Wolverine character in the movie to be honest. Not so much his attitude (which I felt was an improvement over the comics), but the way his Adamantium claws were designed and how they shot out of his arms. I also liked the fact that they decided not to go with Wolverine having bone claws as I felt that was a continuity error in the comics. Before that story arch came about his claws were simply Adamantium; nothing else. But Marvel had to find some way of keeping Wolverine's claws intact after Magneto ripped all the metal out of his body. I was stupid in my opinion and i know he's a mutant, but his mutant ability was rapid healing with heightened senses, nothing else.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: crisis on May 14, 2013, 03:12:04 PM
I know a lot of people had or still have an issue with Logan's height, since in the comics he's actually about 5'2" whereas the movies 6-foot-tall Hugh Jackman portrays him. That, and the constant wifebeaters and black spandex as opposed to his "classic" costume lol


Anybody looking forward to this?

Agents of SHIELD Offical Trailer 1 (2013) - Marvel, ABC HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7EOJ68HTn0#ws)
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 14, 2013, 06:13:55 PM
I know a lot of people had or still have an issue with Logan's height, since in the comics he's actually about 5'2" whereas the movies 6-foot-tall Hugh Jackman portrays him. That, and the constant wifebeaters and black spandex as opposed to his "classic" costume lol


Anybody looking forward to this?

Agents of SHIELD Offical Trailer 1 (2013) - Marvel, ABC HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7EOJ68HTn0#ws)
Yea i seen that preview last night. spin-offs are ok imo. long as Cameos from Heroes and Villians are there at least
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Lone Wolf on May 18, 2013, 04:53:46 PM
Anybody looking forward to this?

Agents of SHIELD Offical Trailer 1 (2013) - Marvel, ABC HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7EOJ68HTn0#ws)

...and, they're not putting any heroes in these series AT ALL, right? Cause for what i think, evidently it may NOT be the same actors from the Avengers movie, that's more than just obvious. :P
But we don't really know, right? Maybe some actors haven't got many things marked on their agendas. :P
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Ratty on May 18, 2013, 05:11:26 PM
I wonder if they start building the JL movie universe in Man of Steel. Logic says yes. But if they're going to introduce all JL members individually like Marvel, it's gonna be a tough road. There's no continuing from that turd of a Green Lantern movie, for example. But making a reboot GL movie now would not be smart, because the failure is fresh in memory. If I were Warner, I'd do Wonder Woman (heh) next. Then Batman. The Big Trio is what counts at this point. If I were to do solo movies for JL members, it would be after the movie. But I really think DC should do its own thing instead of just ape the Avengers method of introducing the characters.

Also, the reason this Superman might seem strange is that DC/Warner is having some legal issues with the relatives of Superman's creators. At least at one point they couldn't use things like Lois Lane as Superman's squeeze and so on. Don't know if that stuff is settled now.

"Superman vs. Batman" was a serious film possibility at one time but they were never able to make it come together, and it likely would have been terrible anyway considering this was post-"Batman and Robin". At this point WarnerBros. should just hand the reigns to Bruce Timm and the other people behind the long-running DC Animated Universe. (Which included great series like Batman TAS and the two Justice League cartoons.) If anybody can give DC a chance to catch up it's those guys.
I don't see that happening, but then I never would have thought Sam Raimi would get Spider-Man or Joss Whedon would get the Avengers either.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Pfil on May 20, 2013, 05:09:15 AM
I saw Iron Man 3 and I liked it. But I'm not familiar with the comic book. I've seen some negative comments on the web. Why is it? Is it different from the comic?
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Dark Nemesis on May 20, 2013, 06:10:27 AM
I saw Iron Man 3 and I liked it. But I'm not familiar with the comic book. I've seen some negative comments on the web. Why is it? Is it different from the comic?

As a fan of the comics, after i have seen the first two movies, i felt disappointed with the third one. Why? At least for me it wasn't so much action, but only about Tony Stark, it went the way, like Spider-Man 3 movie went with Venom. When i saw the movie posters with all these Iron Man suits, i thought that someone has stolen his suit technology and declared him war, but no.........it was his hobby, making suits.

  So, for me the first two movies are by far superior compared to the third one.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on May 20, 2013, 06:52:21 AM
As a fan of the comics, after i have seen the first two movies, i felt disappointed with the third one. Why? At least for me it wasn't so much action, but only about Tony Stark, it went the way, like Spider-Man 3 movie went with Venom. When i saw the movie posters with all these Iron Man suits, i thought that someone has stolen his suit technology and declared him war, but no.........it was his hobby, making suits.

  So, for me the first two movies are by far superior compared to the third one.

I agree.
If they were too afraid of angering China, then they should have settled with another villain. Fans were eagerly awaiting the appearance of his arch nemesis, the Mandarin. But with that treatment... it was a major disappointment.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 20, 2013, 10:35:52 AM
I saw Iron Man 3 and I liked it. But I'm not familiar with the comic book. I've seen some negative comments on the web. Why is it? Is it different from the comic?
This pretty much sums up the negativity from fans
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Pfil on May 20, 2013, 05:38:21 PM
So in the original comic book the Mandarin is a great villain, and the main one, not a tool used by other villain.
I see. Now I understand why fans of the comic book didn't like the movie.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: crisis on May 20, 2013, 06:29:33 PM
Has anybody here seen I Am Legend? Nobody remembers this?

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beyondhollywood.com%2Fstillsx%2F2007%2F12%2Fbatman-vs-superman-i-am-legend.jpg&hash=8376a7e5f194581c4d0907c465e2b5f75c900fa7)

lol


I gotta say... as I keep seeing more & more commercials & footage from Man of Steel, I'm getting more & more excited. I really want this movie to succeed, and I hope they include an after-credits scene!

Concerning IM3: we kinda did see a Mandarin vs. Iron Man battle at the finale, it just wasn't what anybody expected (or how it should've been)


I'll just leave this image of April O'Niel (Megan Fox) talking to pre-CGI Raphael here

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.superherohype.com%2Fimages%2Fstories%2F2013%2FMay%2FTMNT_SET_PHOTO_2.jpg%3F1369071095&hash=7f3c651d47ff464df777443a443081787035c128)
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Ratty on May 20, 2013, 07:18:21 PM
I'll just leave this image of April O'Niel (Megan Fox) talking to pre-CGI Raphael here

Megan Fox, is gonna be April O'Neil... well I guess they spared me having to wonder whether the new movies will be any good, or whether I'll waste any money to go see them.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Pfil on May 20, 2013, 08:09:07 PM
You should know that from the moment you see Michael Bay is going to make them  :P
I mean, he did some things I like, but lately he is missing it by far.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Nail_Bombed on May 20, 2013, 08:43:58 PM
Looking forward to Man Of Steel myself, though am slightly wary of the fairly obvious 'darkness' about the visuals and overall feel of it. As much as I enjoyed the Nolan Batman flicks, there was too much emphasis on the 'gritty, dark, 'realistic' ' production - also not enough time in the suit, making it The Dark Bruce Wayne. Hope that doesn't happen with Supes.

Also looking forward to Kickass 2, Thor: The Dark World and The Wolverine. What I've seen so far with stills and video tidbits looks very exciting. Not Sure how The Wolverine is going to tie-in with X-Men First Class and lead up to Days Of Future Past though.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 22, 2013, 11:02:43 AM
If Wolverine should ever make it to the X-men again, he should go to Avalon and fight Magneto. This calls for a good movie because Magneto jacked all that admantium haha
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Pfil on May 26, 2013, 08:38:06 AM
Looking forward to Man Of Steel myself, though am slightly wary of the fairly obvious 'darkness' about the visuals and overall feel of it. As much as I enjoyed the Nolan Batman flicks, there was too much emphasis on the 'gritty, dark, 'realistic' ' production - also not enough time in the suit, making it The Dark Bruce Wayne. Hope that doesn't happen with Supes.

Also looking forward to Kickass 2, Thor: The Dark World and The Wolverine. What I've seen so far with stills and video tidbits looks very exciting. Not Sure how The Wolverine is going to tie-in with X-Men First Class and lead up to Days Of Future Past though.
I don't have a problem with a dark approach to anything, but I find it annoying that any producer / director involved in anything mentions Nolan.

So that we are on this thread, I'd like to ask: what are everyone's favourite and worst superhero movies?

I guess my favourites must be First Class, and the 1st and 3rd of Nolan's Batman movies (not the 2nd).
And the one I enjoyed the less is Spawn.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Lashen on May 26, 2013, 12:39:53 PM
I already made a passing comment elsewhere about how the proposed Iron Fist film adaptation will likely be the death of me.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Successor The Cruel on May 28, 2013, 07:15:47 PM
Looking forward to Man Of Steel myself, though am slightly wary of the fairly obvious 'darkness' about the visuals and overall feel of it. As much as I enjoyed the Nolan Batman flicks, there was too much emphasis on the 'gritty, dark, 'realistic' ' production - also not enough time in the suit, making it The Dark Bruce Wayne. Hope that doesn't happen with Supes.

Very wary about that myself, because Superman is one of my favorite characters from anything, and he and his world are not 'dark', 'gritty', or 'realistic'. Just about the opposite, really. I don't turn to Superman for stuff like that, nor do I think that sort of spin is necessary to get him to sell.

Kinda' reminds me of the MercurySteam philosophy. "Oooh, this thing isn't performing like we'd want, so I have an idea. Let's turn it into something it's not~"
Though Man of Steel hasn't gone that far, from what I can tell.
It's not that people don't want to see Superman and what Superman is, they just don't want to see it done with a less than great attempt. Same with Castlevania.

But we'll see about Man of Steel. I am hopeful for it.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: A-Yty on May 29, 2013, 04:31:17 AM
What can you do? People want to force pretty much all characters into the dark, gritty mold. Superman above all. You'd think that schtick has gotten more boring than the Boy Scout routine, but that doesn't seem to be the case. And the funny thing is it has to be dark. You hardly ever see sunny, optimistic alternate takes that are succesful. I guess there's a built-in appetite in all of us that makes "fall from grace" stories more interesting.

I like it when it's subtler. Like in Batman/Superman, when Superman thinks to himself that Luthor is so small and fragile and that he could kill him so easily as he has him in a chokehold (after he turns on the President Evil mode). Batman even eggs him on, telling they could make it look like an accident. I think that is the reason why Lex is Superman's number one enemy and why they have overused him in the movies; only few can make Superman struggle when it comes to power, but Lex keeps getting under his skin on all other levels while being just a mere man. That is why I find it hard not to root for Luthor.

They can challenge Superman's idealism without making his suit dark or using a gray color filter. Where's the challenge of writing this already very demanding character if you just have him be Batmanish? They turned that "dark" shit to the max in Injustice when

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Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Pfil on May 29, 2013, 05:02:03 AM
It would be nice if someone have the guts to make a superhero die some day. That would be dark, grim and original.

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Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: A-Yty on May 29, 2013, 05:12:56 AM
It would be nice if someone have the guts to make a superhero die some day. That would be dark, grim and original.

If we're talking about heroes of recurring / endless continuities, it might be a bit ballsy. But if the character is big enough, he is not going stay dead (even if he dies in his movie continuity, they'll reboot it). If they ever permanently killed a character as big as Spiderman, for example, it would be incredible. But it's never, ever, ever going to happen. If there was someone who created a character, made a successful comic book series and then made a movie where he killed the character, ending all continuities, he would have to be an alien (or Alan Moore). Even if the creator had the will to do it, his creation would likely be hijacked in some way.

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Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Pfil on May 29, 2013, 05:36:46 AM
Yes, at least that someone makes a superhero die in their own continuity of movies. For example, make him die for his people, his city, on a particular trilogy. Then we'd be still having the new reboot, but that would be original.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: A-Yty on May 29, 2013, 05:55:38 AM
Well, I don't think the sacrificial hero is that original. It is a trope about as old as dirt. But putting the effort into creating a character, watching it be successful & praised and then killing it - is.

Which is why I laugh joylessly when Nolan is said to have been "visionary" in his decision to end his continuity. People forget that Christopher Nolan did not create Batman. He wasn't even a tingling in his daddy's sacks when Batman was created. In fact, he bent Batman a lot for his own purposes.

Killing your original creation because it's just part of a good story? That takes both creativity and balls. As a shock stunt, cliché or when adapting other people's material? Not so much.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Pfil on May 29, 2013, 06:09:13 AM
Sherlock Holmes (not the movies; the books).
Arthur Conan Doyle had to revive his creation because readers were enraged when he died.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: A-Yty on May 29, 2013, 06:36:43 AM
Yeah. But on a side note, I've got to say that the way Ritchie did the last battle between Moriarty and Holmes was pretty cool. Even though it was already known Holmes didn't really die.

Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows Final Fight Scene HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buE_jLEZrf4#ws)

I haven't read the books, but this "sacrifice" was well justified. Moriarty was too smart to get caught and too dangerous to be allowed to go free. So Holmes had to do the uncharacteristically dumb thing to subdue him. Moriarty may be kind of original as a nemesis, since he was never meant to return (again, that is what I assume, because I haven't read the books) and he was really meant to be the "ultimate enemy" in the sense that Holmes would have to kill both of them to end his crimes. Compare that to comic book villains, who just keep coming back. In that sense, it's pretty sad that Doyle had to retcon that, because it kind of nullifies Moriarty.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Pfil on May 30, 2013, 03:20:27 AM
Actually, Moriarty died and never returned in the books, but Sherlock Holmes really died on one of the later tales.
Then, he had to invent something to resurrect him.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: A-Yty on June 01, 2013, 09:58:21 AM
Oh, sorry. I was a bit unclear. Yes, I know Moriarty died. What I meant when I said he was nullified was that Holmes later turned up alive.
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: crisis on June 01, 2013, 12:19:00 PM
Superhero Rewind: Most Shafted Characters in Superhero Movies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G5797CH4ok#)


Agree/disagree?
Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: A-Yty on June 01, 2013, 02:55:03 PM
Number 1 is funny in hindsight. Bane in TDKR may not have been the blockhead he was in Batman & Robin, but he also
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Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: TheouAegis on June 01, 2013, 07:45:57 PM
Everyone has
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Title: Re: Superhero Movie Discussion (spoilers abound)
Post by: Pfil on June 02, 2013, 07:28:52 AM
Who's to blame on that?
Marion Cotillard is adorable ♥