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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Pfil on May 14, 2013, 03:46:29 PM

Title: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 14, 2013, 03:46:29 PM
Konami: "Taking risks with Castlevania prevented it from becoming another Megaman"

For the producer of Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2, Dave Cox, the new path this veteran franchise has gone through, allowed it to survive the pass of the years.

"We needed to make a change, and we did it", assured the producer during an interview with EDGE. "Castlevania wasn't going anywhere, the sales were decaying and it only interested to a small group of fans. And that's how sagas die", remarks Dave Cox.

"However", continues, "the success of Lords of Shadow proved that there's still life in the franchise, and that people can accept it going on another direction; and we will do it again if it's needed. We have to take risks if we want Castlevania to survive, otherwise it will be like Megaman", concludes, not without remembering before that his intention is still to leave untouched certain identity marks of the series, as their characters or their back stories.

Original article (in spanish): http://www.3djuegos.com/noticia/133609/0/castlevania-lords-of-shadow-2/konami/mercury-steam/ (http://www.3djuegos.com/noticia/133609/0/castlevania-lords-of-shadow-2/konami/mercury-steam/)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 14, 2013, 03:53:27 PM
On a personal note, I'd like to add that if he thinks he didn't touch certain identity marks of Castlevania he is crazy.
He literally changed EVERY SINGLE Castlevania identity mark.
If what it takes to Castlevania to survive is to become something completely different, well... for me it's the same as if it dies.
This was talked several times, but it scares me to think that perhaps Konami will never want to return to the old canon/music/look.
But hey, it's Cox. We can't take him seriously. Now, can we?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Mystic Myotis on May 14, 2013, 04:22:28 PM
But hey, it's Cox.

Alas, this sums it up quite nicely.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Phoenix7786 on May 14, 2013, 04:42:18 PM
I love how this guy keeps acting like he's the sole savior of Castlevania and the sole reason it exists.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kingshango on May 14, 2013, 04:50:33 PM
Quote
But hey, it's Cox. We can't take him seriously. Now, can we?

All that needs to be said honestly. Is not up to Cox whether or not Castlevania lives, it ultimately up to Konami HQ in Japan, who has not made the best decisions in the world for the past several years.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: GuyStarwind on May 14, 2013, 07:09:54 PM
Is this recent?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 14, 2013, 07:17:12 PM
I love how this guy keeps acting like he's the sole savior of Castlevania and the sole reason it exists.
As much as I hate to say it, if IGA was still making CV games, the CV franchise might be in the same boat as Mega Man now or eventually.

Cox took the game, and MS made it relevant to mainstream audiences again. It opened it up to fresh blood. Saying it like that sure sounds all pretentious, but there's truth to it.
Quote
On a personal note, I'd like to add that if he thinks he didn't touch certain identity marks of Castlevania he is crazy.
He literally changed EVERY SINGLE Castlevania identity mark.
That is ENTIRELY subjective, and I disagree with it. I think it kept enough of what I knew, that I can still see the classics in there. "what defines Castlevania" is different for every fan.

Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 14, 2013, 07:33:37 PM
Bush (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rovQj9vNq8I#)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Charlotte-nyo:3 on May 14, 2013, 07:44:26 PM
Does it really matter if the name, a few thematic features and rough sketches of characters live on if the game at its core is no longer the same? I suppose you might say it could still give one hope for Konami to throw out a bone many years down the line in the form of a new Classicvania or Metroidvania, but that seems rather unlikely at this point.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 14, 2013, 08:26:16 PM
Well again, that's subjective. I feel, that at it's core, LoS is a Classicvania with a modern gameplay touch. It's definitely more combat oriented than platforming, but I don't mind it. I personally, still see the classic soul within.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kingshango on May 14, 2013, 08:27:26 PM
So by the looks of things, it's very likely that the Castlevania series from here on out will get the Silent (Hill) treatment?

Well this is gonna a very very nasty ride.

Edit:Silver lining, at least Wayforward got to do a Silent Hill game, maybe they'll do a portable Castlevania game.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on May 14, 2013, 09:44:38 PM
So by the looks of things, it's very likely that the Castlevania series from here on out will get the Silent (Hill) treatment?

Well this is gonna a very very nasty ride.

Edit:Silver lining, at least Wayforward got to do a Silent Hill game, maybe they'll do a portable Castlevania game.
See, it's really the bits about LoS and MoF I dislike that keep me from rallying in Cox's favor. I don't like tank battling where things take forever forever to kill, boxes included. I don't like QTE, shimmying/plank walking and SotC-styled battles. If battle difficulty was something you'd ease into throughout the game(early, enemies are easy, later on, tank enemies become more frequent/ early on, you don't need much strategy in battle, later on, you need to think more quickly), in general, I would love these games a lot. It's just, I don't think that sort of playstyle is, IMO, beneficial for a CV game. That being said, I still stand on my word that if they pussy Dracula to the point of him being anything less of the BEAST he's supposed to be, I'll loose any or all respect for Cox and MS. This IS the perfect time to fix what I, personally, feel has been a flaw witht he LoS games. The perfect chance to play as a powerful hero.

That and, I do believe there's a way to make a 3D CV game RIGHT in the spirit of the classic games, and that it actually has YET to be accomplished. Given trend in gaming, IGA's failure to tap into it and Cox/MS's obliviousness to it, I doubt it will EVER be realized.

It does make me think, though, what in fact made LoS the defining example? What aspect? If it didn't have Titan battles, would the game suffer because of it? If the battles were less tanky, would that have hurt it's sales? When someone usually comes out and say, "ALL of this is why the game succeeded", I usually have to wonder, by picking it apart, if things were slightly different, would it have mattered? And this isn't story-wise, it's gameplay-wise. If there WAS more focus on platforming, would that have HURT LoS?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: X on May 14, 2013, 10:09:39 PM
Quote
Konami: "Taking risks with Castlevania prevented it from becoming another Megaman"

For the producer of Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2, Dave Cox, the new path this veteran franchise has gone through, allowed it to survive the pass of the years.

"We needed to make a change, and we did it", assured the producer during an interview with EDGE. "Castlevania wasn't going anywhere, the sales were decaying and it only interested to a small group of fans. And that's how sagas die", remarks Dave Cox.

"However", continues, "the success of Lords of Shadow proved that there's still life in the franchise, and that people can accept it going on another direction; and we will do it again if it's needed. We have to take risks if we want Castlevania to survive, otherwise it will be like Megaman", concludes, not without remembering before that his intention is still to leave untouched certain identity marks of the series, as their characters or their back stories.

Uuuuugh...
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on May 14, 2013, 11:40:46 PM
So here comes Cox once more heaping praises on himself...

We'll see soon enough the route that the franchise would take after LoS2.
Shocking or not.... I hope a majority of fans would accept it, or else it will alienate the old fans and there would be a new set of fans.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Dark Nemesis on May 15, 2013, 01:37:01 AM
Cox is Galamoth from the future, he came to the past to dominate Castlevania and become the ultimate being.  Araujo is his right hand Aeon and Alvarez is his left hand Grim Reaper.

Also, Cox: what is Castlevania? A miserable little pile of secrets, but enough talk, hand the franchise over me and prepare to join me in remaking it in the next God of The Colossus........(goes to the studios that they have made GoW and Shadow of The Colossus) game steal(same effect as soul steal):P Now is the time to destroy those weak old Castlevania fans.....demonic megiddo-------->Alvarez voice: Game Over, muahahahahahahah......death comes after all........continuous at 2014, PS4, Mercury Steam.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 15, 2013, 01:47:37 AM
Can anyone name something in LoS that was actually original? I mean something Cox and gang themselves thought of?

I mean, he says they "made a change" when they pretty much copypasted things from younger game series.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Odile Kuronuma on May 15, 2013, 03:42:21 AM
Cox=Trollzama
Hazama troll laugh (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eZw0Bk_DLA#ws)
Dunno he likes to troll us, and anger us, so for me he's just like Hazama
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 15, 2013, 04:03:59 AM
LOL, Cox doesn't actively feed on our hate, he just...has a different perspective, so to speak.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ratty on May 15, 2013, 04:04:46 AM
So really what the Cox is saying here is. "By making the games more generic for the dudebros and abandoning almost 25 years of canon and aesthetic/music design, we were able to squeeze a few more years of slight profitability from a brandname that used to signify the most venerated horror/action series in the medium. I am the greatest gift to gaming since Miyamoto."
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Odile Kuronuma on May 15, 2013, 04:39:01 AM
LOL, Cox doesn't actively feed on our hate, he just...has a different perspective, so to speak.
Well maybe not literally but he's making himself look like the hero who saved the franchise.To me, he's kinda feeding on the decaying on the franchise...But he's a troll that's for sure(at least from my perspective).
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Chernabogue on May 15, 2013, 04:43:35 AM
I prefer CV to change, either as LoS or soemthing else, and even a lot, rather than seeing it dying completely (as it was before LoS1).
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 15, 2013, 05:33:31 AM
I prefer CV to change, either as LoS or soemthing else, and even a lot, rather than seeing it dying completely (as it was before LoS1).

It's not that this hasn't been discussed numerous time before, but..why?

Even if not thinking CV was dead or dying before LoS or the LoS methods of change have been like throwing mutagen at something that might get better with pills , rest and a pep talk, the question remains. If certain core elements build something and those are altered radically or removed, you're loving the shell - the name, the brand. And then the makers are pretty much just taking a piggyback ride on the established reputation of the franchise. And in that case you've let the makers dictate your interests as a fan instead of your fandom supporting the makers.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 15, 2013, 05:45:06 AM
So basically all i get from his interview is Resurrection was actually made
(click to show/hide)
. Apparently the series was dead and Lord Cox revived it. The Castle Gate was closed completely until he sacrificed fanfare and canon elements to receive the key to opening the it. Now that he is in full control of Castlevania, the horde of super barrels and titan men have take arms within its walls. It is inpenetrable, no mere mortal dare enter. Lord Cox destroyed the IGA clan and has taken over. Lord Cox's sheer originality has older fans running rampant and the cult of new followers will party on inside his Castle Keep.

Joking aside, i agree with the refreshment of the series however slight. But i agree with the fact that its definitely lacking in the originality department. No matter i will still continue to be a fan to the series! Who knows, since the man is all about the mula, there may be something as shocking as fighting Kratos (***** jumps of nearest cliff with jagged underpass)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: uzo on May 15, 2013, 05:59:47 AM
I don't agree that Castlevania "survived". It died for the most part with the creation of Lords of Shadow. In order to 'save' the series they had to gut it completely. That is not saving, that is just offering something in replacement with the same name attached.

I stand by the notion that Castlevania's issues are not with it's core concepts and characters, but in production values, choice of platform, total lack of marketing, and pandering to a different audience than what they should.

I also have an issue with Cox really saying he took a "risk" with Lords of Shadow. Making a series look, sound, and play, more generic than it's predecessors to pander to a wider audience is not a risk. It is minimizing your risk.

The biggest risk was alienating the old fans by the changes, mainly in story. Apparently they were scared of that, since they had to make up false impressions and basically lie to us in the trailers to get us old fans to buy it.


Can anyone name something in LoS that was actually original? I mean something Cox and gang themselves thought of?

I mean, he says they "made a change" when they pretty much copypasted things from younger game series.

You can change something by injecting ideas from other things into it.

In fact an overwhelming majority of highly regarded classic games had lifted their mechanics almost completely wholesale from something else. I honestly do not understand the 'hate' for games that use similar mechanics to others.

In fact that's how we got Symphony of the Night, the most popular game in the entire franchise. Guess that was a terrible game cause it took some exploration mechanics from Metroid?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 15, 2013, 06:18:49 AM
The comparison between SotN has been made lots of times, but I don't think it's comparable because it took one thing from one game. And it didn't splurge all changes in one single game.

Also, SQ was already a "proto Metroidvania" long before SotN.

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't borrow ideas from others. That is inevitable in all forms of art and entertainment. But I think you should iron out the details and make it work for the established style instead of the other way around. And not just take things all around, knowing they're from games that have done commercially better than Castlevania.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: uzo on May 15, 2013, 07:26:55 AM
Ah, I see what you mean now. You just don't want a game built from the ground up as an amalgamation of 'everything thats popular' then slap the Castlevania name on it. Fair enough.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 15, 2013, 07:43:56 AM
seems more like picking and choosing.

granted los has more derrivation (not much) but sotns entire being was super metroid.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 15, 2013, 08:07:25 AM
I pick and choose as much as anyone, whether he or she likes LoS or not.

SotN had separate areas instead of levels and certain areas were unlocked after finding certain items. SQ was similar, but not as much as SotN. Either way, CV already took a test drive with that idea before any "MetroidVanias".
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on May 15, 2013, 08:18:47 AM
I also have an issue with Cox really saying he took a "risk" with Lords of Shadow. Making a series look, sound, and play, more generic than it's predecessors to pander to a wider audience is not a risk. It is minimizing your risk.

The biggest risk was alienating the old fans by the changes, mainly in story. Apparently they were scared of that, since they had to make up false impressions and basically lie to us in the trailers to get us old fans to buy it.
They basically went the "Popular Trend: The Game" route. It's kinda like in the 00s, the whole overuse of colored filters in movies, where everything looked overly yellow or sepia-toned, JUST BECAUSE everybody ELSE was doing it. Tapping into pop trend is hardly a risk. It might be more short lived if you aren't good at hopping with the trend when it shifts(because trends TEND to shift all the time), but it's like when Grunge was popular and every recording studio executive was stepping on each other to sign acts from Seattle. LOL, if you don't know by now, or previous posts in other threads, I have major contempt for souless trend hoppers. To fully embrace the trend flow, I believe you have to sell your identity for being "in the popular trend". You loose what you are for the sake of being accepted. And, if afterschool specials taught as anything(LOL  ;D), that's bad!!!  ;)

Interestingly enough, I also believe that you DON'T have to alienate classic fans to bring in a new fanbase. I think a game LIKE LoS COULD'VE been made wit similar gameplay, or even similar story, that didn't turn off old school fans. Again, I don't think the idea behind the classic lore or characters was even an issue. Would LoS been less successful if it WAS a retelling of Simon's adventure from the first game? If it was basically taking a bulk of inspiration from the earlier games(monsters, atmosphere), but adding in LoS gameplay style, story progression and graphics? I really think the reason why game companies CHOOSE to alienate older fanbases at risk(even though it's a low risk) to gain new ones is that it takes less thinking to do so. It's the easy way out. You COULD probably make a game that appeals to BOTH scenes, and hell, a game that steps on LESS feet might just be more profitable BECAUSE of that, but it might take some crafty experimentation and writing.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Dremn on May 15, 2013, 08:43:30 AM
Whether we like it or not, LoS is the highest selling game in the series. It's no wonder Konami would put all of their cards on the table in MS's favor.

I don't think the series will go the Silent Hill route, unless Konami completely kills off 2D Castlevania. IGA will be back after LoS2 if Konami needs a new idea after the LoS series, because I am sure as shit not going to buy any LoS spinoffs after LoS2.

Once 2D Castlevania dies, I'm closing the book on this series, and I sincerely hope that does not happen because Castlevania is one of the greatest platforming franchises I have ever experienced.

ReBirth 2, where are you?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 15, 2013, 09:02:48 AM
Konami: Dracula X Chronicles, Adventure ReBirth, and Mirror of Fate didn't meet our sales expectations. Therefore, '2D Castlevania' is no longer profitable, and it's the fans' fault.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 15, 2013, 09:10:27 AM
...and it's the fans' fault.
Well, don't that sound familiar?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kingshango on May 15, 2013, 09:18:53 AM
Konami: Dracula X Chronicles, Adventure ReBirth, and Mirror of Fate didn't meet our sales expectations. Therefore, '2D Castlevania' is no longer profitable, and it's the fans' fault.

Joking aside, I have no doubt that Konami probably thinks this and oddly enough, they are reportedly satisfied with MoF's sales. Guess they weren't expecting much and kept their target sales expectations low.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Odile Kuronuma on May 15, 2013, 09:30:39 AM
I'm looking forward for a 2D Castlevania made by Vanillaware. I'm pretty sure it will sell, especially if it has Succubus in it  ;D
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Nagumo on May 15, 2013, 09:54:57 AM
Joking aside, I have no doubt that Konami probably thinks this and oddly enough, they are reportedly satisfied with MoF's sales. Guess they weren't expecting much and kept their target sales expectations low.


Source?  :-\

Anyway, Uzo was spot on with his comment. I feel the exact same way. Cox sure is a defensive person, isn't he?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ratty on May 15, 2013, 10:12:55 AM
The comparison between SotN has been made lots of times, but I don't think it's comparable because it took one thing from one game. And it didn't splurge all changes in one single game.

Also, SQ was already a "proto Metroidvania" long before SotN.

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't borrow ideas from others. That is inevitable in all forms of art and entertainment. But I think you should iron out the details and make it work for the established style instead of the other way around. And not just take things all around, knowing they're from games that have done commercially better than Castlevania.

Don't forget "Vampire Killer" on the MSX, which was a lot like Simon's Quest before Simon's Quest. And iirc may have actually been the first "Castlevania" game to be developed, releasing so close to CV1 we're not sure who at Konami nicked sprites etc. for a new game from whom.

Konami: Dracula X Chronicles, Adventure ReBirth, and Mirror of Fate didn't meet our sales expectations. Therefore, '2D Castlevania' is no longer profitable, and it's the fans' fault.

Everybody wants a CoD these days, no one is satisfied with a loyal and reliable if relatively small source of renewable income. It's like they're stamping their feet down and saying "I don't want a dog! If I can't have an elephant then I just won't have any pets!" good luck with that long term business strategy.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kale on May 15, 2013, 10:16:34 AM
*Ahem* Screw Cox and his lies. You and your QTE ridden game! Way to screw the game. And copying games on top of that... colossus type enemies? ... Didn't even do a good job of it.

Sigh, at least the art was good.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: darkwzrd4 on May 15, 2013, 11:53:43 AM
Here's what happened:

CV series = Dracula in 1999
Cox and MS = Julius Belmont and company in 1999

Julius Belmont and company permanently kill Dracula in 1999 just as Cox and MS killed the CV series with what they did to it. Dracula is then reincarnated and is currently completely different from who and what he was just as the CV is currently completely different from what it was.

I think the analogy is accurate.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ahasverus on May 15, 2013, 01:01:10 PM
Well at least all signs point to Eidos to be shut down by Square-Enix so perhaps Konami may aquire the studio and let them work on the series? please?

And no Cox, you didn't save anything, CV was a niche BUT respected franchise, now it's kinda niche and frowned upon. Does that make you satisfied?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 15, 2013, 01:57:23 PM
*Ahem* Screw Cox and his lies. You and your QTE ridden game! Way to screw the game. And copying games on top of that... colossus type enemies? ... Didn't even do a good job of it.

Sigh, at least the art was good.
*Ahem* Screw IGA and his blasphemy. You and your bishounen ridden game! Way to screw the game. And copying games on top of that... Metroid type gameplay and item progression? ... Didn't even do a good job of it.

I hope you see why that sounds childish?

I don't get why people rag on LoS for being derivative, when SoTN did it too. So did Simon's quest. (except Simon's quest actually had deathtraps despite it) Vampire Killer was the game that managed to include RPG and Open world elements without feeling derivative. (And we might never know if it was inspired by Metroid, since despite being of the same year, they came out a few months apart, with metroid coming out first.) Simon's quest similarly, did not feel like it copied metroid, since it still followed classicvania gameplay despite being open world like metroid. And it's RPG elements were also pretty different from what Metroid did.

But SoTN? that just screams Super Metroid. Right down to item progression. the RPG elements extended really only to what you were wearing or using as a weapon, as well as how strong you were and such, but actual powers followed a pretty Metroid fashion of acquirement. And you had similarities as a result. The move that gives you a moon jump, the move that makes you an untouchable death object, the move to get you through tight spaces...

The map screen was almost identical as well in presentation.

The point is, every game is going to have some derivation. Games that give you a stage select for example, can thank Mega Man for that. Use a whip? Hi Indiana Jones/Castlevania. Hack n' Slash? God of War hardly invented it.

were the Titan fights a bit too obvious? Yep. That doesn't automatically make it a bad game because they lifted an idea from another game and implemented it.

I mean, CV2 stole Ravenloft's cover art, even, because they liked the way it looked, and added Simon. Hos is that not just as blatant? Doesn't make CV2 a bad game. (insert joke about it being a bad game here)

QTE's? I'm not a fan of them. But LoS implemented them better than most games. Mostly relegated to finishers for bosses, or enemies, (and you could ignore using finishers on enemies if you wanted) All because it uses things that many games nowadays have, doesn't automatically make it a bad game JUST because it did so.

TL;DR, there's no need to hate the game so venomously for emulating ideas and gameplay types from other games when CV is no stranger to doing so prior.

Quote
And no Cox, you didn't save anything, CV was a niche BUT respected franchise, now it's kinda niche and frowned upon. Does that make you satisfied?
Niche is not something that always works for a company. Niche eventually dies. They could just keep making games for the small audience that buys them, but let's look at the bigger picture:

it's obvious IGA tried to make the most of pre-existing assets so as to save money. As time goes on, if one game isn't received well, Konami might give him LESS money. Eventually, Konami might think it's just not worth the expense to serve a small niche audience, and then CV would die.

Respected? Honestly? It's respected for being old, and that's about it. Just for being a classic. That doesn't mean everybody cares about it though. It lost it's mainstream gaming appeal years ago. Probably around the early 2000's. I would blame the move to the DS. By then it was obvious the budget had worn thin for CV. (as had the inspiration) And IGA's attempts to appeal to younger audiences fell flat not only with the younger audience, but with everyone else too. Aria was the last CV game I remember ever hearing any sort of anything for. After that I rarely heard about the new CV releases.

LoS, despite being divisive, at least gave the franchise a much needed boost. From there, Konami can keep whoring out giving out the license, and we can get different takes on the franchise, or maybe bring it on back home, and work on new CV games from their in-house depts. LoS will NOT be the new face of Castlevania, I'm pretty damn sure of that. You could probably consider it an intermediate time. CV is going through some soul searching before it can finally really settle itself back down and start churning out game after game again. Although, perhaps sticking with a continuity for too long could be part of the problem. newcomers get turned off by too much backstory. I think having different studios do their takes, would be the best bet for the franchise.

I would advice Capcom to do the same, but... They are still derping around wondering what to do with mega man, instead of doing SOMETHING.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ratty on May 15, 2013, 02:47:28 PM
I don't think the main contention is that LoS is a poor game because it's derivative Flame, but that it's a poor Castlevania game because it's not derivative enough of the series who's name it carries. So much of a franchise is tied up not only in the story but also the atmosphere/genre and iconography. Some have noted that having a Castlevania without (a) medusa (heads) is a lot like having a Mario game without mushrooms for example. The classic music was disregarded (even disrespected outside of the game) and the horror elements were largely thrown away to make room for a more God of War, Lord of the Rings inspired "epic fantasy" feel.

So you had a game that didn't continue the story, have the look or sound of the original series using the name for brand recognition purposes only. Maybe the mainstream western audience of insecure 17 year old boys is turned off by the aesthetic of Japanese games. But you could have had a Castlevania game developed by a western studio that kept either the story, or the music, or more of the genre/classic horror elements of the aesthetic intact so that it would at least resemble what has historically been Castlevania. And while the subject is open, I'm not convinced that the diminishing sales during the DS era were a creative so much as a management problem. Of course elements were reused and quality suffered when Konami's mantra to the staff seemed to have been "Faster! Cheaper!". Add in zero promotion and I submit I think the old series didn't so much run out of steam as it was buried alive by mismanaging moneymen at Konami. A lot like Megaman is now at Capcom.

As a final argument for why the "Forget everything you thought you knew about X!" approach isn't necessarily the best one in the long term, I'll just leave this here.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: beingthehero on May 15, 2013, 05:42:26 PM
This makes me pine for IGA and his non-douchey interviews.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kingshango on May 15, 2013, 05:51:31 PM
Cox is starting to remind me of Stan Smith during that episode of American Dad when the house got flooded and everything he did made each situation worse.

Cox is Nic Caging Castlevania.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ahasverus on May 15, 2013, 06:18:59 PM
This makes me pine for IGA and his non-douchey interviews.
I just want to retire, please buy my game.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Maedhros on May 15, 2013, 08:56:59 PM
So Flame can see in SOTN Metroid elements but can't see the God of War/Uncharted/Shadow of Colossus in LoS?

EDIT: Nah, he can.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 16, 2013, 12:02:45 AM
I'd like to state a difference from what I see it. Well, a difference from LoS, mind you  :P
DmC is a perfect example of a reboot that has a high respect for the name it carries.
Dante is a different character, and it kind of rebooted the story.
But the look, music and gameplay stayed exactly as every Devil May Cry fan remembers it.
I never cared for Dante, so I didn't care for the change (I liked this Dante even less than the previous one).
I liked the story (but I also liked DMC3's story), and in terms of enjoyment this was the game I enjoyed the most on the series.
There were several times that I felt a little envy for DMC fans, because this is how a saga can be rebooted and still retain the identity.
It's what I personally see, and anyone can differ from my vision.
But I find DmC as the perfect example to refresh a franchise with respect for its name.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 16, 2013, 12:24:12 AM
So Flame can see in SOTN Metroid elements but can't see the God of War/Uncharted/Shadow of Colossus in LoS?

EDIT: Nah, he can.
I see it. I see what people complain about. I just think it's unfair to bash it on that when CV has done it before. personally, i don't see GoW in LoS. I see Hack n' Slash, but not specifically Gow HnS.

Quote
Some have noted that having a Castlevania without (a) medusa (heads) is a lot like having a Mario game without mushrooms for example.
i have no problem with people feeling that way. What i DO have a problem with is people taking subjective measurements as to "what defines Castlevania" and applying to "why loS sucks" or why it "destroyed the franchise" and other inflammatory buzz I hear. it's fine if you don't like the game. Dont treat it as fact though. "IMO" isn't hard to type or get across.

Quote
The classic music was disregarded (even disrespected outside of the game) and the horror elements were largely thrown away
loS1 had plenty of Cv musical nods. I don't think we have to make a list for the Nth time. that said, sure, the music was a different style. it was more ambience "mood" music and had a more traditional orchestra feel, a movie orchestrated score feel. but subjectivity strikes again, i had no problem with it. CV with a completely different coat of musical paint? I'm game for that. they also remixed some of the more obscure themes (aside from VK)

Horror? perhaps not Gothic horror, or horror horror. CV was based around B movie horror, which later tried to go gothic horror. But you can't tell me some of the later games had ANY kind of horror feel to them at all. Aria was the last one to have a very thick gothic horror feel. LoI tried, but was really it's own beast. CoD... Erm. yeah. That's another one that doesn't have much gothic horror to it outside pipe organ scores. CV stopped feeling like horror of any kind. And started feeling like anime. Good quality gothic art anime for sure, but not nessecarily the kind of thing CV had been prior. Even Rondo who had anime cutscenes outright, had more of the classic B horror feel.

LoS certainly was NOT Horror. It was more dark fantasy. But i was ok enough with it to let it try it. And I can swallow the explanation of dark fantasy being the theme "pre-Dracula". MoF despite it's shortcomings though, definitely injected a much more gothic dose of horror into the game. And Carmilla's Castle in loS 1 was oozing with Castlevania feel. So they know how to make a gothic environment.

(click to show/hide)
I still don't see that as comparable. that was a lighthearted kiddie game to start and it became a grimdark super serious game. that's the WORST end of the spectrum. if you told me kid Dracula was going to be remade as a fps horror game and some shit, then ok. but LoS is really 9in my opinion) Classicvania in 3D, with a different coat of paint. it's hardly the massive blasphemic change it's made out to be.

Quote
Cox is Nic Caging Castlevania.
Well, Nic Cage's roles might be in bad movies, but at least he's a hell of a lot of fun to watch! And the guy DOES have some good acting chops in him. His role as Big Daddy in Kick Ass might be his greatest role ever.

Quote
I'd like to state a difference from what I see it. Well, a difference from LoS, mind you  :P
DmC is a perfect example of a reboot that has a high respect for the name it carries.
Dante is a different character, and it kind of rebooted the story.
But the look, music and gameplay stayed exactly as every Devil May Cry fan remembers it.
I never cared for Dante, so I didn't care for the change (I liked this Dante even less than the previous one).
I liked the story (but I also liked DMC3's story), and in terms of enjoyment this was the game I enjoyed the most on the series.
There were several times that I felt a little envy for DMC fans, because this is how a saga can be rebooted and still retain the identity.
It's what I personally see, and anyone can differ from my vision.
But I find DmC as the perfect example to refresh a franchise with respect for its name.
Really? I thought people hated DMC, if not for it's gameplay, for changing the character and turning him into the director (http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8342/dantej.jpg).

also for this

DmC Devil May Cry Old Dante Easter Egg (DmC White Wig Hair Joke Cut scene) 【HD】 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwTu2bpcZ3w#ws)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Dark Nemesis on May 16, 2013, 01:03:30 AM
Quote
*Ahem* Screw IGA and his blasphemy. You and your bishounen ridden game! Way to screw the game. And copying games on top of that... Metroid type gameplay and item progression? ... Didn't even do a good job of it.

I hope you see why that sounds childish?
Quote
But SoTN? that just screams Super Metroid. Right down to item progression. the RPG elements extended really only to what you were wearing or using as a weapon, as well as how strong you were and such, but actual powers followed a pretty Metroid fashion of acquirement. And you had similarities as a result. The move that gives you a moon jump, the move that makes you an untouchable death object, the move to get you through tight spaces...

The map screen was almost identical as well in presentation.

SoTN, has the same game play style with Super metroid, the same map style, but it still has memorable music and not some generic style, it has classic and new enemies and none from other games, like Super Metroid, Alucard has an unique game play style, while Richter has the classic game play style, so i fail to see why it didn't do a good job, when aesthetic is still like previous games, music is one of the most memorable, difficulty, might not be it's strong point, scenario was good and the feeling, playing with Alucard, son of the Dracula back then, was amazing, at least for me. In general, it didn't go astray from what we knew about Castlevania..........on the other hand what Cox said for LoS, forget what you knew about Castlevania, i believe that it must be the only time he has spoken the truth..... :P

Quote
I see it. I see what people complain about. I just think it's unfair to bash it on that when CV has done it before. personally, i don't see GoW in LoS. I see Hack n' Slash, but not specifically Gow HnS.

Combat cross game play it's a rip-off from GoW dual chain blades game play and if you denied it, then i'm sorry, but either you haven't played GoW or you are blind or ignorant, because you can see the similarities that SoTN has with Super Metroid, but you can't see the GoW combat game play, when it's a copy paste?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 16, 2013, 02:40:37 AM
Better late than never I suppose, but...
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/a/a0/294x294px-LL-a0823f7c_Oh-Boy-here-we-go-again.jpeg)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Dark Nemesis on May 16, 2013, 03:00:33 AM
Better late than never I suppose, but...
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/a/a0/294x294px-LL-a0823f7c_Oh-Boy-here-we-go-again.jpeg)

If you got to do it, do it right:
Whitesnake - Here I Go Again '87 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyF8RHM1OCg#)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kale on May 16, 2013, 04:53:48 AM
*Ahem* Screw IGA and his blasphemy. You and your bishounen ridden game! Way to screw the game. And copying games on top of that... Metroid type gameplay and item progression? ... Didn't even do a good job of it.

I hope you see why that sounds childish?
No? Not until that last line about childishness... that made it sound childish, but I didn't say that, so I guess I'm okay.
I don't get why people rag on LoS for being derivative, when SoTN did it too. So did Simon's quest. (except Simon's quest actually had deathtraps despite it) Vampire Killer was the game that managed to include RPG and Open world elements without feeling derivative. (And we might never know if it was inspired by Metroid, since despite being of the same year, they came out a few months apart, with metroid coming out first.) Simon's quest similarly, did not feel like it copied metroid, since it still followed classicvania gameplay despite being open world like metroid. And it's RPG elements were also pretty different from what Metroid did.

But SoTN? that just screams Super Metroid. Right down to item progression. the RPG elements extended really only to what you were wearing or using as a weapon, as well as how strong you were and such, but actual powers followed a pretty Metroid fashion of acquirement. And you had similarities as a result. The move that gives you a moon jump, the move that makes you an untouchable death object, the move to get you through tight spaces...

I don't mind if a game copies things. It's something that happens a lot in ..... virtually everything. However, if you're going to copy, do it well, and/or improve on it. And the big one, don't copy something to the core. Now, LoS isn't the only game to copy things. Look at Darksiders, it copied a lot. It didn't even do a good job with most of the stuff it copied. (Still liked it though, because I enjoyed the combat.)

LoS copied a lot of things, and pretty much all of it was done badly. The combat isn't included because it's an action game... not many ways out there to make an action game. Though if a new way came out that's enjoyable that'd be cool. Like that new MGS game (And there goes another tangent) But the QTEs, which we were lied about btw, were horrible. Especially that stupid ass spin the lever one. UGH. I hate QTEs in general, but that is just... gotta be one of the worst I've ever seen. Colossi combat was done very very very poorly as well. No freedom in it, completely different game play, that just throws you off the side of the cliff from the real combat.

SotN, I felt did good with the things it copied, which is why I never talked about it ripping off other things. Or many other games.

Doesn't help it when Cox was here trying to bait us either.


BTW, wasn't me who thumbed you down. And btw, one of my main reason for hating him was him blatantly lying too. Anywho, back to what this edit was supposed to be about.

I think the DMC reboot wasn't very respectful, and that's been pointed out. I did like majority of the game play though, and the level design, it was quite well done.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 16, 2013, 05:14:02 AM
I wouldn't say it (LoS) was copying any other franchise but it was inspired by other titles. Same goes for SotN. They saw what people admired most about Super Metroid and then tinkered it to make their game its own entity. It shares some of the same elements but i would dare say their intentions were to copy
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on May 16, 2013, 05:30:04 AM
Imitation is the highest form of flattery....
Hmmm... That would mean that games developed by big name companies in the future will be similar to each other. /brr
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kingshango on May 16, 2013, 05:46:09 AM
Imitation is the highest form of flattery....
Hmmm... That would mean that games developed by big name companies in the future will be similar to each other. /brr

That's been happening for a long time now.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: The Silverlord on May 16, 2013, 06:13:19 AM
I half-think Cox is trolling some of you guys in these interviews!  He gets you every time.

I think he’s right in one sense though: Castlevania wasn't going anywhere.  Whether it would have went under or not is a different matter, but the games really weren’t going anywhere.  The two last 3D attempts were generally not well received, and the Classic and Castleroid games—as much as I love most of them—have played themselves out about as far as they can.  Just look at the level design of Portrait or Ecclesia.  Let's be honest: it's not great, and this is several years on from ‘97.

For me, Lords of Shadow arrived later than I would have liked.  It's the best 3D game since the N64 days, and it's moved us on beyond the—I almost want to use the word profligacy, in the sense that it went on for too long, and seemed devoid of fresh idea and inspiration—of the IGA/Kojima/Yamane years.  Castlevania had to move on, it had to grow up.

Could another developer other than Mercurysteam have done better?  Probably.  Could the game have been better?  Definitely.

Now, all that said, I do also think Castlevania might still go nowhere.  Mirror of Fate sales were disappointing.  Lords of Shadow 2 might struggle too, given its release at the end of this Xbox360/PS3 generation.  In its favour perhaps, gothic fantasy is quite big right now.  We’ve got Dark Souls, Game of Thrones: there’s a lot of dark fantasy doing well and in the mass consciousness at present.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 16, 2013, 06:57:28 AM
What's the point of trolling? Especially since he, Alvarez etc. have already made some pretty douchey statements during these couple of years. If he really is doing that, he's making things worse.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 16, 2013, 07:31:48 AM
I love a reading a good debate, and lets face it, if everyone here agreed with each other all the time then this would be a very boring forum! +1 to all

Quote
Castlevania had to move on, it had to grow up.

Yo dawg, is yuo implying LoS is the "grown-man's" Castlevania??  o .o;
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 16, 2013, 07:39:47 AM
What does "growing up" actually mean? Plot gets more complicated? Things turn more "epic" and/or grittier? Blood, guts and gore? Big ta-tas, nice nude bum-bums, hoo-hoos and floppy dingdongs?

Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 16, 2013, 07:52:41 AM
Blood, guts and gore? Big ta-taas, nice nude bum-bums, yoo-hoos and floppy dingdongs?
Sounds like Dante's Inferno to me. :P
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: The Silverlord on May 16, 2013, 07:54:12 AM
What does "growing up" actually mean? Plot gets more complicated? Things turn more "epic" and/or grittier? Blood, guts and gore? Big ta-taas, nice nude bum-bums, yoo-hoos and floppy dingdongs?

Blood, guts and gore?

I loved all of that.  A change for the better.  Some really raw characters on show in Lords of Shadow, that butcher was fantastic boss idea for example.  The dracolich battle was brilliant.

You know I'm not going to say the story/plot line was brilliant.  But I yearn to see more mature characters and themes, we've not really had anything of that kind.  Now is it Castlevania?  Maybe not in the purest sense, and I understand our series isn't say, Game of Thrones, but we have a rich gothic horror setting and some really powerful characters/entities and mythology to work with.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 16, 2013, 07:57:58 AM
I was genuinely asking what kind of things mean "growing up" for a game series.

Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: The Silverlord on May 16, 2013, 08:33:40 AM
Castlevania, for all its characters and its good vs. evil core storyline, has always been created in a more innocent kind of way.  See: storylines and characters in likes of Portrait of Ruin (and also the cartoonish, anime-esque graphics).

Lords of Shadow was a step away into something darker, into something more mature.

I support that.  And I have an appreciation of Lords of Shadow in that regard.

It doesn't need to be that way.  I get that.  A good game is a good game, but I wanted to see it grow up a bit.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: uzo on May 16, 2013, 08:53:14 AM
DmC is a perfect example of a reboot that has a high respect for the name it carries.

What? Seriously?

Ninja Theory took a Brokeback Mountain poster and photoshopped old Dante into it to show off at GDC. No that is not exaggerated. It actually happened. That is the exact OPPOSITE of respect.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 16, 2013, 09:13:05 AM
So let's apply the same "growing up" thing to, say, Mega Man, for example. Away with his happy go lucky attitude. That is juvenile, isn't it? And what about those silly anthromorphic robots with their ridiculous motifs? Childish.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: GuyStarwind on May 16, 2013, 09:17:49 AM
Sounds like Dante's Inferno to me. :P

On a side note, I thought Dante's Inferno was fun. Idk something just get's me fighting evil monster with holy items in hell.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: The Silverlord on May 16, 2013, 09:48:01 AM
Would "growing up" work for Mega Man though?  More realism perhaps?  I'm not sure it would mate.  It would take a lot of vision I think to try and craft something out of that.

Castlevania?  Yes. You can go much, much deeper into the horror and explore many emotions.  Vampires that feel like they'd rip your own throat out.  A castle with an aura of distinct peril.  Feeling of intimidation. Reward for progression.  Realistic eerie landscapes where the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.  Really take a Belmont vs. Dracula scenario to an extreme.

There's a path to that dark place, a place which is "grown up" in the sense I mean it.  You see?

Doesn't mean it's the right way to go or my opinion is a valid one.  I also don't mean to use the term "growing up" in an overtly derogatory fashion.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 16, 2013, 09:56:14 AM
You guys haven't played the Mega Man Zero series? It contains VERY mature content; in fact the Japanese version even has "blood" splatter out whenever you slice an enemy in half.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 16, 2013, 10:00:35 AM
In my opinion, those are gimmicks. The way LoS did it. The ridiculous overkills and hands-on violence. They stray away from the point and makes the whole thing almost cartoony. Just look at the gorn of a QTE-filled session where Gabriel kills Carmilla. I rolled my eyes during that or when he air-jousted Satan.

The kind of "darkness" (separating it from gothic style) I see as more Castlevania are things like hanged corpses in the SQ mansions. Or Death's dungeon in CV. Or the catacombs in SotN. It's very moderately visceral or fleshy (which, I think makes bosses like Legion and Beezelbub stand out from the bunch).
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Foffy on May 16, 2013, 10:07:25 AM
DmC is a perfect example of a reboot that has a high respect for the name it carries.
Dante is a different character, and it kind of rebooted the story.
But the look, music and gameplay stayed exactly as every Devil May Cry fan remembers it.
I never cared for Dante, so I didn't care for the change (I liked this Dante even less than the previous one).
I liked the story (but I also liked DMC3's story), and in terms of enjoyment this was the game I enjoyed the most on the series.
There were several times that I felt a little envy for DMC fans, because this is how a saga can be rebooted and still retain the identity.
It's what I personally see, and anyone can differ from my vision.
But I find DmC as the perfect example to refresh a franchise with respect for its name.

So much of this is factually wrong. How much of that franchise have you played? After playing all of the games, I can see all of the blatant issues DmC created, making it the worst title in the series since DMC2. The style system is something that's been absolutely broken (I don't even think I have to explain this, but I can if you don't see it), and the concept of mandating specific types of weapons on color-coated enemies is something that breaks the fundamental freedom offered in previous games. DmC is more about Ninja Theory having more respect for Heavenly Sword to use that as a template in DMC skin than it is for DMC. It's basically a gothic Heavenly Sword with characters who have names similar to those from Devil May Cry.

As much as it is odd to say it, LoS has had the most respect for its franchise in terms of reboots and legacy for what came before. And even then I think it fucks up a ton of it, like the most elementary concept of this series (Belmont/good vs. Dracula/evil turning into a DeviantArt plot twist). But that just goes to show you the state of video game reboots in the first place, doesn't it? Almost all of them ruin some image, some core of the series it's about, you can plainly tell it's made by people truly unfamiliar with the deepest facets. Tomb Raider is a perfect example of what happens when you care about the name and not the legacy, and that was this year.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Maedhros on May 16, 2013, 11:05:13 AM
LoS simply gave the middle finger to the older fanbase and created it's own. It's almost always the case with reboots.

How much of the old fanbase stayed with them... we'll never know.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 16, 2013, 11:11:02 AM
I wouldn't have a problem with that if LoS wasn't hogging the resources.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: The Silverlord on May 16, 2013, 11:23:46 AM
In my opinion, those are gimmicks. The way LoS did it. The ridiculous overkills and hands-on violence. They stray away from the point and makes the whole thing almost cartoony. Just look at the gorn of a QTE-filled session where Gabriel kills Carmilla. I rolled my eyes during that or when he air-jousted Satan.

Personally, I think the art assets used and direction was fairly cohesive, and the raw aspect and emotion of the characters and the violence portrayed largely consistent throughout the game.

However, you have gameplay elements which are heavily compartmentalised (combat here, shimmy there, puzzle here, platform there etc.), cut-scene and QTE segments which interrupt play, a narrative which drags on and makes you all too aware of it (and praying it moves on a bit), hence the inclination is to treat the game as a bit gimmicky. And of course it's true to say the game borrows elements from God of War, SotC, Tomb Raider and Lord of the Rings.

With that said though, IMO there's an indiscernible and redeeming quality to the game where—despite all its faults—I still felt caught up in it.  It's almost like a "je ne c'est quois", where I still felt a sense of immersion in the world Mercurysteam created in spite of its many "gimmicks".

Or maybe I'm talking bollocks (not for the last time ;).
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 16, 2013, 12:13:21 PM
You guys haven't played the Mega Man Zero series? It contains VERY mature content; in fact the Japanese version even has "blood" splatter out whenever you slice an enemy in half.
Mega Man X4 did it first

Megaman X4: Double's Betrayal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h53_NGLyErE#)

because edgy anime

Although Zero had a fucked up post apocalyptic world and themes of genocide and racism and shit. So it wins by a landslide
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 16, 2013, 02:48:42 PM
What? Seriously?

Ninja Theory took a Brokeback Mountain poster and photoshopped old Dante into it to show off at GDC. No that is not exaggerated. It actually happened. That is the exact OPPOSITE of respect.
Yes, seriously.
With all respect, this is my personal point of view, nothing more, but I believe it that DmC was only disrespectful of the Dante character.
Every other thing I know about Devil May Cry was still there. And they added some more things I liked.
I wish LoS would have taken the same approach (for example, an asshole modern Belmont which I would have hated, but the rest of what I consider to be Castlevania still there: 3D stages with blue maps and percentage completion, RPG elements, leveling up, items, a soundtrack in the Michiru Yamane style).
I think it's the exact opposite. Gabriel character (and its story) was the only thing I really liked about the original LoS (that, and the more CV-ish Reverie DLC).
That's my opinion.

About what they mentioned about growing up... from my personal experience, every time they say something is growing up or turning more mature, to me it's just that it's becoming terribly boring.

I'll set this personal example about my tastes with something very specific: Animes about vampires.
I love Rosario to Vampire. I love everything about it. I don't like Hellsing. It bored me to death. They say Hellsing is "mature" and "compelling". That perfectly explain my tastes and what I like, I think.
Just as I don't like LoS and I love everything about PoR.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 16, 2013, 03:05:37 PM
So much of this is factually wrong. How much of that franchise have you played? After playing all of the games, I can see all of the blatant issues DmC created, making it the worst title in the series since DMC2. The style system is something that's been absolutely broken (I don't even think I have to explain this, but I can if you don't see it), and the concept of mandating specific types of weapons on color-coated enemies is something that breaks the fundamental freedom offered in previous games. DmC is more about Ninja Theory having more respect for Heavenly Sword to use that as a template in DMC skin than it is for DMC. It's basically a gothic Heavenly Sword with characters who have names similar to those from Devil May Cry.

As much as it is odd to say it, LoS has had the most respect for its franchise in terms of reboots and legacy for what came before. And even then I think it fucks up a ton of it, like the most elementary concept of this series (Belmont/good vs. Dracula/evil turning into a DeviantArt plot twist). But that just goes to show you the state of video game reboots in the first place, doesn't it? Almost all of them ruin some image, some core of the series it's about, you can plainly tell it's made by people truly unfamiliar with the deepest facets. Tomb Raider is a perfect example of what happens when you care about the name and not the legacy, and that was this year.
Indeed, Tomb Raider is another perfect example of having respect for the name it carries.
I played all Devil May Cry games. I think the first one was mediocre, the 2nd one terrible, I liked the 3rd (especially its story) and the 4th was OK, but I loved its look. In terms of aesthetic, DmC is the 2nd game I liked the most on the whole DMC saga (my favourite being the DMC 4). As I said, I never liked Dante nor cared about him as a character, and I think Ninja Theory was just disrespectful to him. Of course, to hardcore DMC fans that is a sacrilege, just as it is to me the fact that they stripped away the Castlevania characteristic music. But from where I see it (I'm a hardcore CV fan who happens to play other games too), everything from the DMC was present but with a different lead character and a rebooted story (which I also liked, although my favourite story is DMC 3).
And I enjoyed the gameplay.
It would take a true DMC hardcore fan to know exactly (just as a casual CV player couldn't say if LoS did it right or not), and I'm pretty sure they won't agree between them all, just as we don't all agree here on the Dungeon, but from what I perceived, DmC was a very good game, and a very good DMC game also.
That's my opinion, but as I said, anyone can disagree and have a different vision.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Rugal on May 16, 2013, 03:07:48 PM
Hey guys.

Welp! See you later!
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: beingthehero on May 16, 2013, 03:13:52 PM
I honestly thought adding epic raw blood BRUTAL KILLS BRO titty dongs made the game more childish instead of mature or whatever.

In Mega Man Zero, I mean.

It was also pretty stupid in Lords, though, like the game expected me to high five the screen and say 'whoa dawg this is brutal shit, Mom and Dad don't want me to play this game but I'm gonna!" Blood and gore is, like A-yty-sama said, a gimmick. It was shocking and adult and mature and bullshit in '93 with DOOM and Mortal Kombat. Seeing it applied so hamfistedly just came off as unintentionally comical, much like the dumb attempt at internet humor with the cake note.

But anyways, the series was never mature or even bothered to strive to be "raw". All the way through Chronicles, the series just strove to be a homage to the cheesy 30's and 40's Hammer Horror flicks. CV1 was definitely humorous, what with the film reels flanking the title screen, the corny enemies and music, and the pun names for the credits. And that's a huge factor in the enjoyment of that game.

Even Chronicles' Arranged CGI opening flickers and has fake dust and dirt effects to make it look like it was shot in the 30's.

Anyways, a series resorting to bland 'shocking' things like nipples and blood doesn't signify maturity. Instead it signals zero creativity. It's just telling pre-teen kids that if you own RAW EPIC ACTION TIT BLOOD GAME LORDS then you're a cool edgy badass! All your base are belong to us! Cox wears baggy pants exposing his boxers, too! Adult!
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 16, 2013, 05:23:07 PM
Quote
I honestly thought adding epic raw blood BRUTAL KILLS BRO titty dongs made the game more childish instead of mature or whatever.

In Mega Man Zero, I mean.

Can't tell if you're just being sarcastic, beingthehero-sama, which you prolly are, but directing this to the less-informed, it's more than just blood (which they removed in the American releases) & brutal deathblows (although cutting the bosses in half and seeing their unique cybernetic-organic innards was intruiging, for me at least. Not to mention very graphic & visceral for the standard MM game). As Flame-sama stated, it's themes of mass-genocide, racism, bi-racial relationships (reploid x human), economic issues, etc. that are present in the series is what makes it a lot more mature than the kid-friendly themes of most other MM games. Hell, Zero even *spoiler* SACRIFICES himself at the series' climax, as opposed to the typical "hero wins & returns home safely" endings in most other MM games. The X series was like this too, but Zero series certainly took it up a notch or 2. Just some examples on why MMZ can be seen as the most "mature" version of MM. Sans titty dongs.

But back on topic~
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 16, 2013, 06:33:17 PM
Zero even *spoiler* SACRIFICES himself at the series' climax, as opposed to the typical "hero wins & returns home safely" endings in most other MM games.
He's done that before in X1. He's also gotten killed by the final boss in X5. (through contrived means, but whatever) Though his Z4 death was definitely the greatest. Probably because he STAYED dead. For a good 200 years or so before he reared his head in ZX as a floating plot device. (how appropriate)

Quote
Anyways, a series resorting to bland 'shocking' things like nipples and blood doesn't signify maturity. Instead it signals zero creativity. It's just telling pre-teen kids that if you own RAW EPIC ACTION TIT BLOOD GAME LORDS then you're a cool edgy badass! All your base are belong to us! Cox wears baggy pants exposing his boxers, too! Adult!
I think it was Bloodlines (appropriately enough) that introduced blood. It's been there. And then there are the sexualized enemies introduced in Rondo and Symphony, stuff like the Alure une (I probably spelled that wrong) or the TOPLESS SUCCUBUS BOSS. PoR was the worst in this aspect...

And let's not forget Beezlebub in Symphony, or The Forgotten One in Lament, both bosses who were meant to be grotesque. Forgotten one singlehandedly gave LoI a T rating. Castlevania is no stranger to OMG BLOOD OMG TITS

LoS was pretty tame with the sexual fanservice. it's pretty much just Carmilla's odd getup, unless you consider the Crystal item crash demon "fanservice". (Or Satan) And it was no more bloody than LoI, although  a bit more visceral in it's violence.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kingshango on May 16, 2013, 07:03:34 PM
Umm pretty sure that LOI got a M rating. At least it says so on the box.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 16, 2013, 07:15:30 PM
My memory isn't what it used to be. Should have looked it up.
T, M, you know what i mean.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: The Silverlord on May 16, 2013, 11:48:53 PM
Quote from: Pfil
I don't like Hellsing. It bored me to death. They say Hellsing is "mature" and "compelling". That perfectly explain my tastes and what I like, I think.

Quote from: beingthehero
Anyways, a series resorting to bland 'shocking' things like nipples and blood doesn't signify maturity. Instead it signals zero creativity.

See: Game of Thrones.  See even some later Hammer movies, particular Scars of Dracula which is about as "raw" as you can get.  I still think there's a lot of creativity in there.  Nipples and blood alone are going to do it (and I take the criticism with Lords that some of the violence seemed done for the sake of it) but there are many examples of nudity and violence done in a tasteful way and wrapped in great storyline.  I honestly think in lieu of:

Quote
Vampires that feel like they'd rip your own throat out.  A castle with an aura of distinct peril.  Feeling of intimidation. Reward for progression.  Realistic eerie landscapes where the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.  Really take a Belmont vs. Dracula scenario to an extreme.

That there's scope for something brilliant here in our series.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 17, 2013, 12:08:26 AM
And then there are the sexualized enemies introduced in Rondo and Symphony, stuff like the Alure une (I probably spelled that wrong) or the TOPLESS SUCCUBUS BOSS. PoR was the worst in this aspect...
...or the best, depending on what you like  ;)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 17, 2013, 12:36:15 AM
...or the best, depending on what you like  ;)
Indeed, Indeed...

Quote
I don't like Hellsing. It bored me to death. They say Hellsing is "mature" and "compelling". That perfectly explain my tastes and what I like, I think.
Which Hellsing?

The first anime, or Hellsing Ultimate? Yes, there are differences. Mainly, the original was made before the manga ended, so like Full Metal Alchemist, made up it's own story past the Manga's current state.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 17, 2013, 05:19:30 AM
I feel the biggest risk they could've taken would have been to make Gabriel be followed around by a wise Fleaman. After beating the game u can use this Fleaman in Fleaman mode and throw infinite knives. Boom risk taken, im paying!
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 17, 2013, 12:44:55 PM
Indeed, Indeed...
Which Hellsing?
The first anime, or Hellsing Ultimate?
Hellsing Ultimate.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Abnormal Freak on May 17, 2013, 01:27:58 PM
Hellsing (manga, TV series, OVA series) is "mature" in the sense that it isn't really something for kiddies, but it's juvenile escapist fantasy through and through.

That's in no way a detractor, in my mind. It has a rather compelling story and great art.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 17, 2013, 04:15:29 PM
I understand your point, and I'm OK with the fact that everybody seems to like it.
But it just was boring for me. I'm more of the Rosario to Vampire kind of vampire anime, or Dance in the Vampire Bund, though this is very inferior to RtV in my opinion, or when it comes to something "mature", I prefer Elfen Lied for example.
It must have been that I didn't like the characters design perhaps. I don't know. Maybe I was expecting something more Castlevania. I guess it just wasn't for me.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 17, 2013, 07:00:41 PM
Have you... Read the Rosario+Vampire mangas?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 17, 2013, 11:49:23 PM
Yes, but aside from some girl on girl kisses I prefer the anime.
I liked the manga, but it was more an excuse to experience something more with those characters I loved than something I really was a fan of. Usually I read some mangas from animes I really like (Mayoi Neko Overrun, Sora No Otoshimono...), just to get something more when there's no episodes left  :P
The Rosario to Vampire CD must be the album I heard most times in my life (not counting Castlevania).
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 17, 2013, 11:55:33 PM
I couldn't stand the R+V anime. probably because I saw the manga first, and found the Anime to be nothing like the manga, where I was hoping for just a plain adaptation, not distillation.

Then again, wasn't the first manga series still being released when the Anime was made? or am i trippin'? (still find it hillarious the author actually separated a MANGA into SEASONS)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 18, 2013, 01:29:04 AM
Yes, they are very different. The manga is more serious.
I'm not familiar with the release dates, I just read what was available in the manga right after finishing watching the anime.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: TheouAegis on May 18, 2013, 02:07:44 PM
MoF doesn't mean 2D gaming is dead, it means LoS scuked enough that no one wanted to spend $40 on a 3DS game from the same company. People probably bought LoS because of the name, not the gameplay. Gamers probably bought it, played it, then returned it for some money back because of how much they disliked it, but Konami and MS wouldn't have access to those figures so as far as they see the game's a huge seller. MoF comes out, people are now familiar with MS, so sales take a hit.

IGA ruined the series and Cox decimated it. People only pay for Cox' shit because they want to go back to the good old days of Castlevania and were hoping he'd do that. I wwas eagerly awaiting MoF but after watching videos of LoS and MoF I don't even want to touch it. I don't mind Cox being a douche, but those are not Castlevania games and so I will not buy them. I still regret paying more than $10 each for OoE and um, I think it's Aria of Sorrow, although I guess I was  entertained somewhat. But I dislike both IGA and Cox for what they've done.

Castlevania needs to be a fast action game again with nail-biting fear-inducing death traps.


R+V is so violent now. Even though it was a *****, Kurumu's death was super gory I thought. And you never know who to trust in the story now. I like it. Season II in the manga's definitely gotten better. It's a lot like Excel Saga. The series starts off comical and fairly light, but eventually takes on a much more serious tone.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 18, 2013, 02:14:15 PM
Quote
Castlevania needs to be a fast action game again with nail-biting fear-inducing death traps.

Did you enjoy Adventure ReBirth? Just curious.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: TheouAegis on May 18, 2013, 02:25:19 PM
No because I don't have a Wii. My friend hasn't downloaded it yet for his Wii. Although he did download Super Castlevania IV, so it's been fun talking to him about that. And now he has that NES/SNES system that came out on the market recently, so I can take my copy of CV3 down to his house one of these days and we can play it again.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 18, 2013, 02:47:41 PM
opinions
ok
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: TheouAegis on May 18, 2013, 11:16:50 PM
Wow 2 downvotes for not having a Wii? It was a cool system with shitty games when it first came out. If I wanted to play it, I'd just go to my friend's house, but even then we'd spend 90% of our time playing PS2 or PS3 games (or Genesis, but those were special times). I love Nintendo keeping the Wiimote relatively compact and not putting 20 buttons on it. I'm sure the different controllers were all planned as revenue-makers early on, but I admire the foresight Nintendo had to let you use a controller with however many buttons you needed. If you don't need 20 buttons, you shouldn't have to manipulate a 20-button controller. Plus the wrist strap was a nice touch too. Still, didn't want to spend $200 on a Wii.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Neobelmont on May 18, 2013, 11:26:45 PM
No because I don't have a Wii. My friend hasn't downloaded it yet for his Wii. Although he did download Super Castlevania IV, so it's been fun talking to him about that. And now he has that NES/SNES system that came out on the market recently, so I can take my copy of CV3 down to his house one of these days and we can play it again.

Beware the famiclones if it's not a retroduo chances are it will not play cv3 trust me I have a fc-twin, retro-bit, and retro-duo and trust me out of the three on the rd works with cv3 and even then the music takes a hit. But maybe time has passed and more famiclones are compatible with cv3
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on May 19, 2013, 12:45:10 AM
Wow 2 downvotes for not having a Wii? It was a cool system with shitty games when it first came out.
This is basically the current gen(PS3, X360, Wii U) in a nutshell, and one of the main reasons I actually held off buying both a PS3 and X360 for a good long while, no launch games peaked my interest. Doesn't help that a lot of the great franchises present through PS1 and PS2 either couldn't make the leap to HD because companies just couldn't scroung up the budget, or those franchises were abandoned because the companies felt they weren't profitable and budget should be focused on titles/franchises that are more attuned to mainstream tastes. It wasn't until, maybe, couple of years ago that I actually got a PS3 and X360. I did get a Wii U when it came out, but I've alwasy kinda been a Nintendo fan and though it COULD use a better selection of games, I kinda want to see it do good(despite it's, well, not doing so good).

Is it me or, with the NES, Sega Genesis, SNES, when those consoles launched, they had fuckin AWESOME games! PS1 even. Why does it take so long, nowadays, to get a good deal of games out for new consoles? Even slightly after launch, it seemed like NES, Genesis and SNES were getting a good slew of titles and their catalogs were steadily growing more and more. You don't see that anymore. It almost seems like a struggle to get a good number of launch titles out the door.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 19, 2013, 02:25:05 AM
Probably the same thing as with movies; lack of ideas.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on May 19, 2013, 11:20:26 AM
Probably the same thing as with movies; lack of ideas.
Is it lack of ideas? I really question that because it's brought up a lot and I partially agree, but more so not based on lack of ideas more than people opting for the quick easy cash-in rather than, um, using that brain to come up with something really good or interesting. Sure, lots of base story concepts have been done to death, but there is way to innovation classic story ideas and make them seem new again without going the "Well, let's just do the basic of basics".

For games, I actually it's connected to the whole "play it safe" modern way of thinking. The reason why a lot of developers don't invest in creating launch titles for certain consoles is because they are waiting to see how the console will do FIRST to decide when they actually "jump in" with their games. Of course, a console, be it greatest of HD quality, is going to do shitty if there are NO FUCKIN GAMES FOR IT!! It's really idiotic logic you see a lot of nowadays. It's like everybody are standing on a bridge ready to jump on the moving train as it goes under them, but everybody's afraid to make the leap. It's all, "You first!", "No, YOU first!", "Oh, by all means, I'm a gentleman!", "That's alright, I'll follow you!", "I insist!"... I do think the "playing it safe" method is hindering progression AND creativity in the gaming industry. Irestingly enough, the whole idea behind the topic, taking risks, is almost the opposite of the popular belief of "playing it safe". I've said it before, if you always hang out in the wading pool, you're never really going to learn how to swim in the deep end, and you could sure as HELL forget about ever going to the beach and swiming in the ocean!! The whole recession topped off with the higher development prices for HD gaming has resulted in making developers pussies.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: X on May 19, 2013, 11:34:13 AM
Quote
Is it me or, with the NES, Sega Genesis, SNES, when those consoles launched, they had fuckin AWESOME games! PS1 even. Why does it take so long, nowadays, to get a good deal of games out for new consoles? Even slightly after launch, it seemed like NES, Genesis and SNES were getting a good slew of titles and their catalogs were steadily growing more and more. You don't see that anymore. It almost seems like a struggle to get a good number of launch titles out the door.

Maybe it's because there were not so many people working on these earlier games unlike today. A game nowadays has more then one team behind it and they are usually scattered across the globe. Also take into consideration of just how many people are in each team. Some may think that have such a huge workforce behind a single game will make things progress fast and smooth, but it doesn't really. It just makes the progress that much more slower. I guess 'cluttered' is the word I'm looking for here. Back in the NES days for the most part you only had one team and they weren't even a group of ten people either. So in the short span of the NES' life there has been over 900 titles released then compared to todays' console library. This is just my opinion, it's not a fact.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: TheouAegis on May 19, 2013, 11:42:29 AM
IGA's games were fun for a while, but the dude had to go. He's a gent, but someone who saw no problem with Cthulhu floating around in a residential quarter with chandeliers twice as big as The Old One had to go.

The series needed a change from IGA's formula, but it didn't need a drastic overhaul like Cox thinks. Some of Konami's best-selling franchises haven't changed much at all over the years, even though they've declined in popularity. Declining sales naturally encouraged Konami to try something different and SOTN took off because of that gamble, but then gamers quickly bored of IGAvanias. That's not opinion, that's economics. Even with very limited figures, Castlevania's history wasn't impressive even under IGA and still not impressive under Cox. Some of the most impressive figures were in the NES days. CV3 took a hit and the series changed after that but only SOTN and LOI made a dent in the figures. These numbers are off of VGChartz.com and some of the data is missing too. (SOTN sold only 210,000 copies in Japan, and all in the first year? I find that hard to believe.) The three NES games, according to the site, were hits in Japan and USA, but abyssmal flops in Europe. Whether this is true or just shows a lack of sales figures available from Europe, I can't say.

SOTN: 1.27 million units sold globally on the PS
CV1: 1.23 million units on the NES
LOI: 0.94 million units
CV2: 0.93 million units
COTM: 0.89 million units
CV3: 0.85 million units
LoS: 0.79 million units on the PS3
LoS: 0.51 million units on the XBox360 (for a total of 1.30 million in 3 years, not bad)
CV64: 0.64 million units
CoD: 0.42 million units
DoS: 0.37 million units
DXC: 0.37 million units
PoR: 0.35 million units
OoE: 0.31 million units
AoS: 0.28 million units without sales figures from Japan

A lot of the figures on that site are lacking data from various years. OoE, for example, only has the first two years of sales in Japan, but the US has sales numbers for every year since OoE's release. I can't help but wonder where Cox gets his figures and just how accurate they are. But let's just look at LoS's figures since they're likely to be the most accurate and revised (by the way, you'll notice MoF didn't even surpass AoS).

2010   400,574   N/A   400,574
2011   263,611   -34.2%   664,185
2012   101,745   -61.4%   765,930
2013   20,844   -79.5%   786,774


Those are actually decent declining figures. A steady drop is acceptable and a 400k opening weekend just for the PS2 is impressive. But wow, 2013 took a huge hit in the sales. In the first two years, everyone wanted to play it upon release. Sales were steady in the first three months upon release (October 2010) and sales were already at 300k before the year was even over. There's no denying that's impressive for a Castlevania game. In nearly every country, sales were high in the first two months. The US and Europe (on average) maintained 10k+ units per week for the first 5 weeks. Sales numbers for Japan on that sight show sales crippled by the third week. Are figures missing from Japan? Can't say. Are figures missing from other parts of Europe? Of course, as Spain isn't listed but probably sold a majority of the European sales, if Steampunk was representative of Spain at all. So there's no denying, on any one platform LoS is doing better than any of the recent Castlevania games, but overall it's on par with SOTN, since Saturn Sales aren't documented properly. Considering it's well above 1k sales this year, it's no doubt a success in Konami's eyes, but reports for MoF aren't even over 100k yet, so in the portable area MS has fizzled.

To put some things in perspective though:
KONAMI'S LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS

We can see a few things from this: Atari games sold better than most Castlevania games. Games franchises that have not changed much at all still outsell Castlevania. Sports and racing games are almost guaranteed sellers. Even Tetris outsells Castlevania. Most importantly and as everyone already knows, MoF was a flop. To be honest, I'm actually a bit surprised it flopped, but more on that in a sec.

While LoS so far has been Castlevania's greatest success, superseding SOTN by a smidgen, it's hardly a success story, let alone something Cox should be patting himself on the back for. Releasing a game of such magnitude in this era of bloated game developer staffs is praiseworthy, but in terms of sales figures it's not that impressive. We will have to wait until LoS2 to see if Cox actually did well. If LoS2 is a flop, Castlevania very well could be dead in Konami's eyes. The franchise has always been one of Konami's low sellers.

The history of the franchise has shown that the initial release of a director or system yields decent sales, but subsequent games yield shameful numbers. Castlevania was the best seller on the NES. Ironically, for all the love SCV4 gets these days, in terms of sales it was a bomb. Even CV64 beat it out. Why CV64 bombed so bad baffles me. Yes, the game sucked in many people's eyes, but it was the flagship of 3Dvanias; it should have actually fared better. LoI tried to bring the series back up and in a way it succeeded -- it could be argued that LoS would have been a total failure if LoI hadn't shown fans that Castlevania could be rendered in 3D. MoF was the series' 3DS flagship, but not Cox's. I almost wonder if MoF had come out before LoS if it would have had better opening sales. Would LoS have sold as well to this point if MoF had come out first?

Of course all of this could be wrong -- much of the info comes from vgchartz.com. A lot of information is lacking. How many units of Castlevania II: Belmont's Revenge sold? According to vgchartz.com, less than 10,000. I find that hard to believe. Obviously information is missing. And therein lies the problem with Cox's comments. He says his game is the best selling game in CV history, but how do we know? We assume he has insider knowledge from Konami, but it's just as plausible he's scouring the net for information like the rest of us. He sees the sales figures, tallies them up, sees that LoS sold more across two platforms than SotN did on one platform. LoS as far as VGChartz knows only barely beat out SotN in sales but there is no record of the Saturn version's sales. Only one or two versions of CV1's sales are even available from VGchartz and yet those versions alone are nearly the same in sales as LoS. From what I can tell at VGChartz, games from the SNES era often didn't have numbers reported for more than 2 years, whereas PS2, PS3, and XBox games have numbers reported for 3 or 4 years. Many Gameboy titles are lacking numbers and Wii VC sales aren't accurately reported as well. Just because he's an exec at Konami doesn't mean he has any significant insider knowledge. Also missing (and understandably so) are pirate figures; how many copies of Castlevania games have been pirated and downloaded illegally and are still present in the offenders' households?

It is entirely plausible LoS was just a flagship production destined to lead to horrible sales figures in subsequent releases as has it seems was the case throughout Konami's history according to vgchartz. While I don't think Cox is just pulling numbers out of his ass, I think he's ignoring what they mean. He's also further exemplifying his immaturity by boasting about his sales figures WITHIN THE FRANCHISE. So he may have sold more copies of LoS than any other CV game in Konami history, the sales revenue is still unimpressive in the history of video games. Cox sounds like a guy boasting about bowling 120 while his friends average 70 to 100, but the group of bowlers three lanes over are averaging 190 to 250.


I fell asleep while typing this. So now as for the release-date games: I like the staff size argument. Also is the fact I think that most developers of systems aren't waiting for a game library. They wasted enough time developing the systems, they want to capitalize on the new technology as soon as possible and release the system with or without a game library. Nintendo in the old days made sure it had a good games library. When they got jumpy, they released the Virtual Boy ahead of schedule with a horrible library of games. The system was a flop. It wasn't a bad system, it was marketed poorly. One of the reasons Mario is such an iconic gaming figure is because he continues to help Nintendo provide a fun flagship game for each system upon release. Developers can see how Nintendo incorporated Mario into the new system and then they can get on board to make games too. Also, I think maybe the programming languages for new systems might be a bit different and developers aren't being provided adequate development software. And then you have cases like Sega where the hardware developer told programmers to go fuck themselves if they didn't like something.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Maedhros on May 19, 2013, 02:05:23 PM
shitty numbers
This site take numbers from nowhere, they simply invent the numbers from their asses. The only trackers of the market are NPD, MediaCreate, Famitsu... these numbers simply have no base for them.

It's a banned site on Neogaf for a reason. They even admited it themselves that their number were only estimates, in other words, bullshit.

Just wanted to comment on that, didn't read the rest of your post.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: TheouAegis on May 19, 2013, 04:50:13 PM
Meh. Either way, the final paragraph in my post still holds. Cox is talking out of his ass. It's obvious even from NPD, Famitsu and Chart-Track that LoS, let alone any CV game, will probably never be as popular as any of the big boys. And not all the figures were from VGchartz. Maybe 2/3 were. Castlevania is a decent franchise but still nowhere near as big of a money sucker as some other series. And considering how many games bear its title, it's kinda pathetic.

"[Cox's] also further exemplifying his immaturity by boasting about his sales figures WITHIN THE FRANCHISE. So he may have sold more copies of LoS than any other CV game in Konami history, the sales revenue is still unimpressive in the history of video games. Cox sounds like a guy boasting about bowling 120 while his friends average 70 to 100, but the group of bowlers three lanes over are averaging 190 to 250."

I don't expect him to match Metal Gear Solid, but even Konami's saying they're hoping to cross 2 million units sold -- in the sequel. I certainly hope LoS2 breaks the 3million mark, but time will tell. I have my doubts, though.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ahasverus on May 19, 2013, 04:59:21 PM
Quote
the most impressive figures were in the NES days. CV3 took a hit and the series changed after that but only SOTN and LOI made a dent in the figures. These numbers are off of VGChartz.com and some of the data is missing too.
Stop it right there, they make up numbers and aren't a credible source. You can only trust Konami's own figures.

I remember the game selling 1million copies in 3 weeks and Konami's CEO giving thans to fans for the outstading support. The game had good word of mouth so I believe Cox words.
Also, salaries in Spain compared to those in Japan are laughably bad. LoS was probably cheaper than Lamment of Innnocence and Curse of Darkness.

MoF on the other hand surely was a bomb.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: beingthehero on May 19, 2013, 06:13:58 PM
They never said how many copies were actually sold, only that they shipped 1 million copies to stores. It's like a kid arguing that he deserves dessert because he totally loaded up his plate with three helpings of lima beans, but never said how much he actually ate.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ahasverus on May 19, 2013, 07:44:56 PM
They never said how many copies were actually sold, only that they shipped 1 million copies to stores. It's like a kid arguing that he deserves dessert because he totally loaded up his plate with three helpings of lima beans, but never said how much he actually ate.
Konami (and any other company) doesn't care at all about sold copies. They recieve the money from shipments. Actually, unit sales are almost impossible to track, as stores aren't obligued to report them.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Trevor Belmondo on May 20, 2013, 01:07:12 AM
Going back to the comment of origin, "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman", down playing the Mega man series, do these people even remember what Mega Man became?

The height of the series was to be Legends 3, which was looking great until Capcom killed it.

CAPCOM killed Mega Man.
Not "change", or "bad sales" or even disinterest.
If anyone remembers, there were even fan developers on board with the production of Mega Man Legends 3 at the time it was euthanized.

This game was on track to become arguably, THE greatest game in it's recent history.
The Legends series embraced what was the essence of Mega Man, added to it, made a new 3D spin on it to "stay with the times" and succeeded.

The only thing that makes this Lords of Shadows stuff Castlevania is the logo on the cover of the box and a couple of names referencing characters from the series.

That is NOT "keeping a series alive", that is tearing it all down and putting up a Starbucks or a Mini-Mart, just to try and please as many people as possible.
As many people EXCEPT the original fans that made the series a success from the beginning, maintained it and have the broader view of what Castlevania is and was all about.

I've got nothing against Konami trying to "do something new" with Castlevania, but why couldn't they do that without ripping off 2 or 3 other games along the way?

Sucks ass when your favorite video game series gets compared to other games, especially games that are rip-offs of rip-offs.
Cough-cough! God of War, which was so-so in itself in my opinion. Never even bothered to try it it looked so boring and overdone...
It Ripped off Devil May Cry (good trilogy), which ripped off...which ripped off...)

F$#% rip-offs.
Do something actually NEW Konami.
THAT'S what made Castlevania so fresh and interesting.
It was an action platformer yes, but at the time of it's initial release, there was nothing out there quite like it.
To this very day...
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Maedhros on May 20, 2013, 05:57:51 AM
Stop it right there, they make up numbers and aren't a credible source. You can only trust Konami's own figures.

I remember the game selling 1million copies in 3 weeks and Konami's CEO giving thans to fans for the outstading support. The game had good word of mouth so I believe Cox words.
Also, salaries in Spain compared to those in Japan are laughably bad. LoS was probably cheaper than Lamment of Innnocence and Curse of Darkness.

MoF on the other hand surely was a bomb.
The game SHIPPED 1 million copies in 3 weeks. We don't know the real numbers, only Konami.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 20, 2013, 07:09:55 AM
Going back to the comment of origin, "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman", down playing the Mega man series, do these people even remember what Mega Man became?
they see all too well what has become of Mega Man lately.
Quote
The height of the series was to be Legends 3, which was looking great until Capcom killed it.

CAPCOM killed Mega Man.
Not "change", or "bad sales" or even disinterest.
If anyone remembers, there were even fan developers on board with the production of Mega Man Legends 3 at the time it was euthanized.

This game was on track to become arguably, THE greatest game in it's recent history.
The Legends series embraced what was the essence of Mega Man, added to it, made a new 3D spin on it to "stay with the times" and succeeded.
Not at all. The Legends series was NEVER a hit. At all. It was a niche series. It was radically different for the time, 3D, dungeoncrawler, and did not seem to take place in any sort of world related to Classic or X, having a completely different story and characters based on classic ones. of course, japan eventually got the memo that it was "in the future" the US never did though.

Inafune himself remembers the legends series as having put Capcom in the red. legends 1/2/TB never sold too well at all. that's one of the reasons, most likely, that L3 was shut down. Without Inafune to push for the project and pull strings, Capcom decided it not worth the risk to make a sequel to a failed series.

Also, Mega man has been in trouble ever since a while. X7 was a bomb, XCm and X8 apparently didn't sell enough to warrant sequels, The Zero Series ended, and the ZX series was not a success (thus suffering from legends 2 cliffhanger syndrome)

Quote
The only thing that makes this Lords of Shadows stuff Castlevania is the logo on the cover of the box and a couple of names referencing characters from the series.
That's your opinion. Don't state it as fact.


Quote
I've got nothing against Konami trying to "do something new" with Castlevania, but why couldn't they do that without ripping off 2 or 3 other games along the way?
just something that's bound to happen. take an idea that works, and incorporate it. game industry is no stranger to it. Neither is Castlevania. (SoTN)

Quote
Sucks ass when your favorite video game series gets compared to other games, especially games that are rip-offs of rip-offs.
Cough-cough! God of War, which was so-so in itself in my opinion. Never even bothered to try it it looked so boring and overdone...
It Ripped off Devil May Cry (good trilogy), which ripped off...which ripped off...)
And so the circle of life continues... I personally saw very little "blatant" rip off aside from the titans. Just because it has hacknslash gameplay doesnt mean it ripped off GoW. GoW did not invent it.

Quote
Do something actually NEW Konami.
THAT'S what made Castlevania so fresh and interesting.
I suppose you'd prefer metroidsameia # 586 with reused rondo assets and cheesy anime stories with schoolgirls and japanese draculas?


Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on May 20, 2013, 09:22:53 AM
I think a good tweaking with the controls(Legends always seemed to have wonky controls) and the series could've been far better than it was. I still think a 3rd person shooter Mega Man game could be great, especially if it uses the cartoony/anime art style the series is known for(because, quite frankly, as brought up in NeoGAF, there isn't much visual variety in FPS and TPS, and going an anime/cartoon route could be an interesting venture instead of the "realistic"). I always envision this Mega Man....

(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/mega_man_classic_character_sheet_mega_man.jpg)

.... running around, hiding behind giant block crates, jumping up to scafolding platforms and weaving through enemy fire in a giant 3D city where the locations look like these...
(http://www.themmnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/10city.jpg)(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100904203916/megaman/images/1/1a/Mega_Man_1_-_Bomb_Man--article_image.jpg)(http://img.brothersoft.com/screenshots/softimage/m/megaman__bass-170521-1.jpeg)

... fighting classic enemies like these....

(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120123111550/robotsupremacy/images/9/93/284px-MM1BigEyeArt.jpg)
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100502203127/megaman/images/1/11/MM1SniperJoeArt.jpg)(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090301231858/megaman/images/d/dc/Met.jpg)

... but with new attack patterns set for this new 3D landscape. They could make it cel-shaded(would be awesome) or even go the "living action figure" route that you seen with Blue Dragon...

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Zuz6PdkjYOw/UESGCpARVyI/AAAAAAAAFww/Xfu5L6vBskM/s1600/Blue_Dragon_2_500.jpg)

..., but look at this picture and imagine it as a GAME!:

(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130408193861/megamanarchie/images/7/72/Big_Eye.png)

That's a 3D Mega Man game I'd want!!

EDIT: Though, cel-shaded using some really advanced techniques could be good. Anybody see the trailer to the new Guilty Gear game? It basically looks crisp 2D, until you find out, well, they are actually 3D(the sprites aren't sprites, the world is fully rendered in 3D). This is using Unreal Engine, I believe. A 3D Mega Man game like this would ROCK!:

Guilty Gear Xrd -SIGN- Trailer #1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKGPhKu3jNg#ws)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 20, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
Indeed, I feel the Legends series was ahead of its time. Had it came out several years ago, it prolly would've faired way better and possibly "saved" the MM franchise. Granted I have no idea how well the [Japan-only] PSP re-releases did sales-wise, so who knows..

Also, I wonder why Capcom doesn't release a "Battle Network Collection" for 3DS since BN was a popular enough series. They could make a MMZ Collection which only consists of 4 games, but won't release all the BN games on 1 cartridge? wtf? (i never was a big fan of BN other than a few character designs, but I still feel it deserves a collection)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Trevor Belmondo on May 20, 2013, 01:06:08 PM
they see all too well what has become of Mega Man lately.Not at all. The Legends series was NEVER a hit. At all. It was a niche series. It was radically different for the time, 3D, dungeoncrawler, and did not seem to take place in any sort of world related to Classic or X, having a completely different story and characters based on classic ones. of course, japan eventually got the memo that it was "in the future" the US never did though.

Inafune himself remembers the legends series as having put Capcom in the red. legends 1/2/TB never sold too well at all. that's one of the reasons, most likely, that L3 was shut down. Without Inafune to push for the project and pull strings, Capcom decided it not worth the risk to make a sequel to a failed series.

Also, Mega man has been in trouble ever since a while. X7 was a bomb, XCm and X8 apparently didn't sell enough to warrant sequels, The Zero Series ended, and the ZX series was not a success (thus suffering from legends 2 cliffhanger syndrome)
That's your opinion. Don't state it as fact.

just something that's bound to happen. take an idea that works, and incorporate it. game industry is no stranger to it. Neither is Castlevania. (SoTN)
And so the circle of life continues... I personally saw very little "blatant" rip off aside from the titans. Just because it has hacknslash gameplay doesnt mean it ripped off GoW. GoW did not invent it.
I suppose you'd prefer metroidsameia # 586 with reused rondo assets and cheesy anime stories with schoolgirls and japanese draculas?

So Mega Man wasn't a big money maker, so what.
It was still a GOOD SERIES, which is much more important than it conforming to the mainstream.
F$#% the mainstream.

I would prefer anything BUT this horrid, despicable rendition of this once amazing series.
It's a travesty.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 20, 2013, 01:46:04 PM
So Mega Man wasn't a big money maker, so what.
It was still a GOOD SERIES, which is much more important than it conforming to the mainstream.
F$#% the mainstream.
let me put it in perspective since you can't seem to understand over your frothing rage.

if it does not sell, it can not survive. back in the day, nes games were cheaper ti make. so despite mm1 not selling well, inafune and co. were allowed to work on 2 on the side in their free time. from there, it was a hit. its not about mainstream. cv was once mainstream. devs are influenced by current gaming trends. if they like it, they will incorporate similar.

Quote
I would prefer anything BUT this horrid, despicable rendition of this once amazing series.
It's a travesty.
I would not. I was tired of IGA. I was tired of his practices and bad habits. I was kind of tired of metroidvania. the recent outings seemed uninspired to me, and I saw LoS as a breath of fresh air. I loced it. It was like a classicvania pulled into the modern day to me.

also you need to calm yourself. you are ridiculously  overreacting, and its hard to take seriously.

and stop claiming opinion as fact. it is not dspicable or a travesty. why? because that's just your opinion.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 20, 2013, 03:06:49 PM
I suppose you'd prefer metroidsameia # 586 with reused rondo assets and cheesy anime stories with schoolgirls and japanese draculas?
Maybe I'm the only one, but that's exactly what I'd like to get.
That, and music that sounds like Michiru Yamane.
I'm not trying to start a discussion here, you are cool Flame.
I just love MetroidVanias, and you mentioned some things I like about them.

Also, you've been proving to have a HUGE knowledge about Megaman these past months, with several posts I read.
I'm really impressed.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 20, 2013, 03:39:43 PM
Quote
Maybe I'm the only one, but that's exactly what I'd like to get.
Really? Variety is the spice of life. To me, the DS games were getting incredibly samey, the PoR gimmick was forced hard and unnecessary, and the stories for PoR and DoS were pretty bad. the visual design was ok, but not that great. they felt lacking on some fronts. I can't explain...

Quote
That, and music that sounds like Michiru Yamane.
I can agree with that sentiment, but I was disappointed by DSvania music. I don't like it at all. the DS sound just doesn't do CV music justice at all. Even the GBA sounded better IMO. Dawn of Sorrow's music just grated on me. Certain tunes more than others to be sure, but in general, i was not fond of the sound in the DS games. Withy the exception of maybe OoE, which just like all other fronts, came too late to save IGAVania.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 20, 2013, 03:48:41 PM
Flame I love you, but i can't resist (http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/images/smilies/mysmile/laugh.gif)

Quote
Withy the exception of maybe OoE, which just like all other fronts, came too late to save IGAVania.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c#ws)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Sindra on May 20, 2013, 03:50:03 PM
Huh. I can't believe I missed this for so many days.


....



Excuse me. I have some Super Castlevania 4 to play.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on May 20, 2013, 04:00:10 PM
Excuse me. I have some Super Castlevania 4 to play.
  I was thinking the same thing Sindra.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 20, 2013, 04:11:41 PM
Flame I love you, but i can't resist (http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/images/smilies/mysmile/laugh.gif)

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c#ws)
Haha, you got me.  ;)

but can that really be called JUST an opinion? reality sort of backs it up, since the only game released after was Judgement, which wasn't even a proper game, and it was a colossal flop, after which LoS (which was already in development) happened, and we have not gotten another IGAvania after OoE.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 20, 2013, 04:29:00 PM
Well Harmony of Despair wasn't considered a flop, in fact it was quite successful if the top online download charts from when it was released are to be believed. The general public enjoyed it quite a bit, and to be honest it was only us & a couple other CV sites that really shit on it, but that's a whole other topic & lets not get into that here. And lets remember that the heads at Konami were very hesitant on branding LoS a Castlevania because it was "drastically different;" they wanted to stick with what everybody knew. Had Kojima not stepped in & convinced them otherwise, then perhaps IGA & team would've released the "Akumajo Dracula PS360" game, another follow-up to the "metroidvania" formula, etc. How those games would've turned out is anyone's guess and entirely subjective. MercurySteam/Cox most likely would've been busy making an entirely different game, or retooling LoS into something else or perhaps a "spiritual successor" to Castlevania. But this is all in an alternate dimension.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 20, 2013, 04:42:32 PM
From my understanding, it took so long to become castlevania because of Judgement being their shiny new cv game, I mean, it was a cv1 remake first. but they hesitated to give the title back till Koijima pushed them.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 20, 2013, 09:02:26 PM
But this is all in an alternate dimension.
Is there a way to go to that dimension so I can stay there?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 20, 2013, 10:03:01 PM
Really? Variety is the spice of life.
To be honest, I'd be happy having MetroidVanias forever. That's just me  :)

I'm so fanatic about that, that in an hypothetical scenario where I have to decide what I will have to play for the rest of my life, I'd give up the rest of the VG industry just to have Castlevania (if I were to decide to save CV or the rest).
If I were to live on a island and I could take just one game, that would be Portrait of Ruin  :P
Of course, this is a fantasy, but it shows the fangirl inside me.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ahasverus on May 20, 2013, 10:06:36 PM

If I were to live on a island and I could take just one game, that would be Portrait of Ruin

Quote
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/085/Kornheiser_Why.JPG)

No, really, I'd like to hear your reasoning, why Portrait of Ruin? What does it special for you?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 20, 2013, 10:11:57 PM
Hey, one man's trash is another (wo)man's treasure, right? :P
And hey, you could stop a train with your bare hands and slap Richter's face with a cream pie. lol
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 20, 2013, 10:42:37 PM
I remember when Ahasverus first joined the Dungeon, coincidently around the time LoS was announced, and was constantly spamming the forum with how great the game was compared to every other Castlevania and how Cox is essentially the savior of the series.

Surely you can understand another fan's fanatacism towards another CV game, right?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ahasverus on May 20, 2013, 11:12:28 PM
I remember when Ahasverus first joined the Dungeon, coincidently around the time LoS was announced, and was constantly spamming the forum with how great the game was compared to every other Castlevania and how Cox is essentially the savior of the series.

Surely you can understand another fan's fanatacism towards another CV game, right?
What are you talking about? I joined before Ecclesia's launch.

And let's say I expected more from what they promised.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kale on May 20, 2013, 11:33:49 PM
No, really, I'd like to hear your reasoning, why Portrait of Ruin? What does it special for you?

I could think of a reason... it's probably the most grindy cv game released. So... yea, stuck on an island for an unknown amount of time, grind away!
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 20, 2013, 11:34:18 PM
And let's say I expected more from what they promised.

I think you're being a bit modest here  ;D

Also, did Sumac change his username to Flame..?  ;)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Foffy on May 20, 2013, 11:54:27 PM
If I were to live on a island and I could take just one game, that would be Portrait of Ruin  :P

(http://pin5og.bay.livefilestore.com/y2pSHwgO-dR4rUsBygEcW6ZqjWFIAurz2Yx9Erk74QNm2M54Reg6X6k70gdu08ymMObnFe1ziJ9VAb-YSe1dOI-QCqcDvzx4PZr0pZcMbSxMUjE0OyvBEUgkOdEEKQ-BcRW/ShortBarf.gif)

You don't plan to last long on this island, do you? Sadist. :P
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 21, 2013, 12:13:06 AM
(http://pin5og.bay.livefilestore.com/y2pSHwgO-dR4rUsBygEcW6ZqjWFIAurz2Yx9Erk74QNm2M54Reg6X6k70gdu08ymMObnFe1ziJ9VAb-YSe1dOI-QCqcDvzx4PZr0pZcMbSxMUjE0OyvBEUgkOdEEKQ-BcRW/ShortBarf.gif)

You don't plan to last long on this island, do you? Sadist. :P
This coming from the guy with a Jonathan Morris sig. :P
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Successor The Cruel on May 21, 2013, 01:11:31 AM
o___O
I still can't get over how much of a PR nightmare Cox and Mercury Steam are. They always come across as if they're justifying what they did... like they have a point to prove to someone who's arguing with them, and in so doing, they denounce the series and its fans while glorifying themselves. Cox, listen very closely to me!

WE DON'T MIND CHANGE AND FRESHENING THINGS UP, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN ANY CHANGE IS A GOOD ONE!

For me, personally, I do not want MS's type of change, but that doesn't mean I pine for endless Portrait of Ruins. I think both extremes are horrible. 
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 21, 2013, 05:12:37 AM


Also, did Sumac change his username to Flame..?  ;)
I don't use the  :rollseyes: smiley nearly enough.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 21, 2013, 06:14:00 AM
Quote
And let's say I expected more from what they promised.

LOL modest much? You were singing praises months after the game was released dude, you were near-Affinity(remember her?) levels of annoying. I recall you & several others here even wanted to organize a "Thank You" letter to Cox for crafting one of the best if not the best Castlevania. But you have gotten a lot better and rational since and have calmed down a lot from your LoS-Sugar-Rush-high, so all is good now :)

I just find it funny how you're questioning a fellow fan's love for a particular game when you yourself was no different a few years ago..
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ahasverus on May 21, 2013, 08:20:49 AM
I'm not questioning it, I'm curious, as PoR is considered the lesser of the MetroidVanias and in a sense was quite a departure of what came before, it was colorful, cheery and a lot of in your face moments; And how can we forget the very, very, very repetitive level design and the shameless recycling (this the the worse of them all, I think that's part of the reason why we had new sprites and assets for Ecclesia).

And Anime faces, oh god, those anime faces, still give me nightmares  :P

Boss battless were /awesome/ though.

It's not that the game was irredemable, it was good but was a little.. eh.. odd.  Still I want to know your reasons for prefering it over others, sometimes appeal might come from the most different things or perhaps I could gain a new perspective.

And @Crisis: Two things.

In a sense, I think the "Thank you letter" would have been a good idea, as if anything it would give them the reasons WHY we liked LoS and they wouldn't had thought it was because of their master hand that the game was good, and if taken seriously, we would had been spared by some baffilng decisions in Mirror of Fate and.. god knows what LoS2 will bring to us. They just get sucked on their own desing ego.

While I wouldn't make that letter right now, in a sense I think there's nothing wrong with wanting to appreciate someone else's work, if it gave you fun; God forbid, I got a lot of fun with LoS at its time.
So as i'm not saying it's wrong for her to like PoR, and I was just curious (And it seems you didn't get it because I know, a not rethoric question is hard to find on the internet these days) I respectfuly believe you have no business in bringing old events (3 years!) and false information (Ommiting 2 years of membership for..?) to devalue my post for no reason.
This is a Castlevania Forum, not the WWE, and there's no need to start a feud from thin air, even if that is not as amusing as you'd like. Peace.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Foffy on May 21, 2013, 09:09:20 AM
This coming from the guy with a Jonathan Morris sig. :P

It's intentionally campy. It was also made by someone I knew before he took his life, so I use it out of respect.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 21, 2013, 09:31:35 AM
...Well, this is kinda awkward.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 21, 2013, 01:53:04 PM
No, it's OK Ashaverus, you were always respectful to me.

Why I personally love PoR so much?
Castlevania is what I like the most in the world, and I'm also a big fan for a specific kind of anime. I can name Rosario to Vampire, Sora No Otoshimono, Mayoi Neko Overrun, Angel Beats, Clannad, Kore Wa Zombie Desu Ka...
Portrait of Ruin mixed Castlevania with that kind of anime (at least to my eyes).
Then there's Charlotte, my favourite costume in the series, and she looks like that kind of intellectual library girl I sometimes like to write about in my stories. The chemistry between her and Jonathan, and the catchphrase "Quit treating me like a child", like she's grown up now... I remember feeling like that.
Also, the levels. They are so beautiful. The renaissance mixed with 19th and early 20th century... The backgrounds... And the whole backstory of the WWII that makes me remember stories told by my grandfather, whom I miss so much... World War has always been kind of romantic and poetic from where I see it... nostalgic... that also happened with scenarios from Bloodlines to me, and let's not forget this is a sequel to Bloodlines, one of my favourite (if not my favourite) ClassicVania. Versailles, Tower of Pisa, the German Factory, Proserpina... that feeling seemed to translate perfectly from ClassicVania to MetroidVania here, from the start with the concept of portraits, reminiscing art from the beggining.
Then, the rest of characters. Brauner is so elegant, and his story as a villain is what I like to see in a villain, kind of what we see with Gabriel in MoF... he is evil, but it's out of love, not out of hate. Brauner just does what he does to save his daughters. And Stella and Loretta themselves, that gothic lolita design... just beautiful.
Not to mention they become playable characters later, and their mode is so fun, and we also have Axe Armor for a difficult quest to complete the 1000% with her (including Nest of Evil) requires high ability as a player, which took lots and lots of practice and strategy for me.
And if that weren't enough, we have Richter and Maria from Rondo, and that Maria gameplay is one of my favourites (in fact, Carrie is my favourite 3D gameplay together with Okami, and Charlotte is my favourite 2D gameplay -those spells...- followed by Rondo's Maria).
To get 1000% with every one of the 7 characters is no easy task. Not to mention to get every item, weapon, drop, something I always do in every Castlevania.
Then there's the side quests, provided by a character I've loved since Bloodlines, and whose story is also touching, as well as the backstory for the whip and Richter's memory.
To complete all the quests is one of the funniest and most engaging things I remember experiencing in a game, at least personally (everything I say is from a personal point of view).
The final fight versus Dracula and Death? Awesome, and a great idea! That fusion was so anime-like!
And previous to that fight, I can hear my favourite VG music ever: "Gaze Up At The Darkness".
Which brings me to the soundtrack. Oh, my God, the soundtrack!
As much as I love every Castlevania soundtrack (they are my favourite music in the world), Portrait of Ruin is my favourite, I like it even better than SotN, AoS or OoE, which are my other favourites in the saga.
The mix of two giants like Michiru Yamane and Yuzo Koshiro worked perfectly for me.

I know I'm in the minority, but I'm used to that, it's OK. For example, Curse of Darkness is one of the experiences I enjoyed the most in my life playing games, and one of my favourite Castlevania games too, also in large part because of side quests, aesthetic and soundtrack.

Greetings!  :)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 21, 2013, 02:44:02 PM
Quote
This is a Castlevania Forum, not the WWE, and there's no need to start a feud from thin air, even if that is not as amusing as you'd like

Whoa calm down dude, I'm not starting a feud! I was just making a point how people love to call the kettle black, and used you as an example (and honestly, that snide "WHY" meme you posted last page was more like you wanting to start something, it was like "HOW COULD ANYONE LOVE PORTRAIT OF RUIN SO MUCH?!" despite you loving LoS just as much as Pfil loves PoR. That's all I was trying to point out.). I even said that you've gotten a lot better from your rampant fanboyism of Cox & LoS, a lot more rational than you used to be and I commend you for that.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Foffy on May 21, 2013, 03:14:51 PM
...Well, this is kinda awkward.

Nah, it's okay, you didn't know. But I think one should assume something's amiss if I lament (hurrhurr) over PoR despite having a signature with JONASAN. :P
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Dengo vlad tepes on May 22, 2013, 03:59:18 AM
i really don't know what is this guy thinking ....

daym he's just too dramatic ! look at MoF and tell me more about the life saving !
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 22, 2013, 04:06:06 AM
I don't understand.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 22, 2013, 05:50:02 AM
so where do we go from here?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Weiss Belmont on May 22, 2013, 02:15:19 PM
I love how this guy keeps acting like he's the sole savior of Castlevania and the sole reason it exists.

Pft, I know right. Never mind the fact that Castlevania has been doing quite well on the handhelds and the series was established long, long before Cox even got into the industry. But I guess we should give him credit for all of Castlevania's successes. Hell let's give him accolades for MGS as well because you know he's going to say that RR took elements from LOS. And hell, we might as well consider Cox the savior of Konami and the entire video game industry. My word what an amazing man.  :rollseyes:
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 22, 2013, 03:52:08 PM
Castlevania has been doing quite well on the handhelds 
I disagree. The handhelds suffered after Aria. poR and DoS single handedly sunk IGA's Ship. (well, as did the Console games of loI and CoD which really garnered no fanfare whatsoever.)

When a longstanding CONSOLE series, is relegated to handhelds? That's a problem. It means it is not worth investing in a proper full blown outing.

Quote
and the series was established long, long before Cox even got into the industry.
I fail to see how this is relevant. So what? Mega Man has been established almost just as long, and it still needs saving. Castlevania needed a change as well.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Weiss Belmont on May 22, 2013, 04:42:11 PM
I disagree. The handhelds suffered after Aria. poR and DoS single handedly sunk IGA's Ship. (well, as did the Console games of loI and CoD which really garnered no fanfare whatsoever.)

The handheld market is booming. Always has but even more so nowadays. Sure Castlevania didn't look like the Belle of the ball after Aria of Sorrow, the series did quite well on the handhelds.



I fail to see how this is relevant. So what? Mega Man has been established almost just as long, and it still needs saving. Castlevania needed a change as well.

Then I'll explain it to you and I'll be as brief as possible. Cox is not the savior of Castlevania. That was my point, one you somehow missed. Castlevania needed change true. But just because a series adopts innovation that doesn't mean it's in some immediate danger of dying. You have this idea that game series must evolve or die. This is not true on any level. Madden, CoD, Halo, the most recent iterations of these titles are the same shit people have been playing for 5+ years now, 10+ where Madden is concerned. Games don't need innovation to sell so much as they need marketing power. Castlevania is the bastard step child of Konami which as a company has placed most of the burden of keeping them afloat squarely on the shoulders of Kojima.

Your crack about Mega Man is dubious. Mega Man was axed simply because Capcom felt they were disgraced by Inafune's departure. Four MM games were lined up prior to his departure and all four of them got the ax. This was in no way due to the game being outdated or not matching the current interests of the consumer but because Capcom is filled with asshats. Mega Man needs saving yes - by being removed from Capcom and put in the hands of a company that is actually competent. However, your "assertion" that Mega Man needs saving is based on some belief you have that something is inherently wrong with the series. It is not. Perhaps the next time you're in the board room with the other heads at Capcom please relay this to them.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Phoenix7786 on May 22, 2013, 04:49:00 PM

Why I personally love PoR so much?


For what it's worth PoR is my favorite of the DS series, while OoE bored me to tears.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 22, 2013, 08:34:08 PM
Then I'll explain it to you and I'll be as brief as possible. Cox is not the savior of Castlevania. That was my point, one you somehow missed. Castlevania needed change true. But just because a series adopts innovation that doesn't mean it's in some immediate danger of dying. You have this idea that game series must evolve or die. This is not true on any level. Madden, CoD, Halo, the most recent iterations of these titles are the same shit people have been playing for 5+ years now, 10+ where Madden is concerned. Games don't need innovation to sell so much as they need marketing power. Castlevania is the bastard step child of Konami which as a company has placed most of the burden of keeping them afloat squarely on the shoulders of Kojima.
Its not so much about that as it is about the fact that a series that once had innovation and change on consoles, was relegated to asset reuse on handhelds. I have nothing against handheldvania. But the series was condemned to it after the N64 games. We only got 2 new console games, and 1 2D CV remake. (not counting Judgement, which was a fighting game) That, and IGA had just run his course. it was only IGA, and not all of his stuff was good. (hes terrible at sequel plots) maybe it's just me, but I wanted some change. i wanted SOMETHING big, and for me, LoS delivered. Sure, it was super hyped as Dracula vs Belmont, and that was a like, but I liked the change it brought. fresh blood, different vision, and no holds barred. it was top notch quality visually, and gameplaywise. (opinion, mind you)

Quote
Your crack about Mega Man is dubious. Mega Man was axed simply because Capcom felt they were disgraced by Inafune's departure.

As much as we all like to say that in anger at Capcom, I'm very sure that was not the main reason.

inafune was in a high enough position and respected enough that he could push for these games. And by his own admission, would often go over budget on prorotypes, so as to force Capcom to push it to development. Mega Man has not always sold well. And part of the problem is it never changed. It's to be admired that it lasted so long with very little change, but that doesnt last. And their 3D attempts have never succeeded. X7 was a bomb, (Command Mission im unsure of, but it was not a standard X game, being an RPG) and the Legends series Inafune recalls putting Capcom in the red, explaining why there was never a Legends 3.

Quote
Four MM games were lined up prior to his departure and all four of them got the ax.

Four?

Mega Man Legends 3,
Mega man Universe,
Mega Man Online.

What's the fourth?

And all 3 of them had other factors.

Legends 3: was Inafune's project, and he was pushing it. Capcom never wanted it, because the original 2 never sold well.

Mega man Universe?: had a bad reception when it was shown at conventions.

Online: was Korea exclusive, and was coincidentally caught up in neowiz restructuring to concentrate on phone games, cutting their online game department severely.

Quote
Capcom is filled with asshats.

No argument there, lol.

 
Quote
Mega Man needs saving yes - by being removed from Capcom and put in the hands of a company that is actually competent.

not sure about this. I'm sure Capcom could make a good new fresh game if the higher ups actually wanted it. Capcom has great folks working in it and for it. The problem is management not seeing Mega man as profitable or worth the risk. they also dont know what to do with the franchise to rekindle that fire. (because they are idiots)

that said, I'd love some third party love. Wayforward for one.

Quote
However, your "assertion" that Mega Man needs saving is based on some belief you have that something is inherently wrong with the series. It is not.
there is only 1 thing that is wrong with the franchise, and that is that it never evolved to the third dimension. that was essential back when the PS made that the big thing.  Mario did it. Metroid did it eventually. even Castlevania tried it. Although they were in a similar boat, since the N64 games had a... rocky... lifespan. But despite my gripes about console vania, we DID get occasional 3D games. at least they TRIED. Capcom? Legends failed and they said "fuck it". X7 failed and they said "fuck it" again, and gave up at 3D mega man after Command Mission. 9 and 10 were incredibly niche and even not all the fanbase liked them. and the ZX series was not selling well, leading to another Legends 2 syndrome with ZXA's ending.

mega man needs something like loS, (not necessarily a reboot, although making a clean break without all that backlog of story wouldnt hurt) a big budget, well made 3D game.

(or they could just release Legends 3 and see that the audience for it today is much larger than it was when legends 2 failed)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Weiss Belmont on May 22, 2013, 09:16:42 PM
Its not so much about that as it is about the fact that a series that once had innovation and change on consoles, was relegated to asset reuse on handhelds. I have nothing against handheldvania. But the series was condemned to it after the N64 games. We only got 2 new console games, and 1 2D CV remake. (not counting Judgement, which was a fighting game) That, and IGA had just run his course. it was only IGA, and not all of his stuff was good. (hes terrible at sequel plots) maybe it's just me, but I wanted some change. i wanted SOMETHING big, and for me, LoS delivered. Sure, it was super hyped as Dracula vs Belmont, and that was a like, but I liked the change it brought. fresh blood, different vision, and no holds barred. it was top notch quality visually, and gameplaywise. (opinion, mind you)

I'll concede to that.



As much as we all like to say that in anger at Capcom, I'm very sure that was not the main reason. inafune was in a high enough position and respected enough that he could push for these games. And by his own admission, would often go over budget on prorotypes, so as to force Capcom to push it to development. Mega Man has not always sold well. And part of the problem is it never changed. It's to be admired that it lasted so long with very little change, but that doesnt last. And their 3D attempts have never succeeded. X7 was a bomb, (Command Mission im unsure of, but it was not a standard X game, being an RPG) and the Legends series Inafune recalls putting Capcom in the red, explaining why there was never a Legends 3.

Oh really? So Capcom finds enough money to make three different versions of Street Fighter IV, make two versions of Marvel Versus Capcom 3, and despite how shitty recent RE titles have been they keep selling better and better. But budget constraints are to blame for the Blue Bomber's death. Hmmmm


Four?

Mega Man Legends 3,
Mega man Universe,
Mega Man Online.

What's the fourth?

Maverick Hunter
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2013/04/10/capcom-canceled-maverick-hunter-mega-man-first-person-shooter-fps-video/ (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2013/04/10/capcom-canceled-maverick-hunter-mega-man-first-person-shooter-fps-video/)



And all 3 of them had other factors.

Legends 3: was Inafune's project, and he was pushing it. Capcom never wanted it, because the original 2 never sold well.

Mega man Universe?: had a bad reception when it was shown at conventions.

Online: was Korea exclusive, and was coincidentally caught up in neowiz restructuring to concentrate on phone games, cutting their online game department severely.

No argument there, lol.

Odd. Because according to the article by Polygon, Capcom was ready to greenlight at least two of these projects but when Inafune left they cancelled all four of them. It's all there.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/4/9/4179628/mega-man-fps-maverick-hunter (http://www.polygon.com/2013/4/9/4179628/mega-man-fps-maverick-hunter)





Capcom has great folks working in it and for it.

Lol no they don't. You think a company that has great folks working for it could squeeze out an abortion like SF x T?


mega man needs something like loS, (not necessarily a reboot, although making a clean break without all that backlog of story wouldnt hurt) a big budget, well made 3D game.

Mega Man needs Miyamoto. Yes people I'm sorry but I went there.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 22, 2013, 09:35:23 PM
I'd rather give Mega Man to Inti Creates.

Inti Creates is made of former Capcom Employees, many of whom worked on Mega Man games. (Inti also made the Zero series, the ZX series, and MM 9 and 10) Those guys know what they are doing. they LOVE story and continuity, and they really GET what makes Mega Man work.

I don't really approve of Nintendo getting Mega Man. they have issues too. They whore out Mario and LoZ, (and Pokemon) but leave other series forgotten. Like Starfox, or Metroid.


Quote
Oh really? So Capcom finds enough money to make three different versions of Street Fighter IV, make two versions of Marvel Versus Capcom 3, and despite how shitty recent RE titles have been they keep selling better and better. But budget constraints are to blame for the Blue Bomber's death. Hmmmm
Fun fact: SF:IV was an unwanted product within Capcom right up until release, where it turns out it was actually a hit, and Capcom was quick to scoop it up and suddenly give it love. Ono recalls people always asking him why he was working on an unprofitable game like Street fighter 4, and why he wasnt working on something better.

Not budget constraints. Bad sales.

Also, Maverick Hunter was way before any of the other 3. It was started and cancelled back in 2010. It doesn't really count in the same basket as the other 3. And it's reason for cancellation is understandable, although I'm sure it would have done fine. Because they felt it might alienate the players by being too different.

Quote
Odd. Because according to the article by Polygon, Capcom was ready to greenlight at least two of these projects but when Inafune left they cancelled all four of them. It's all there.
Legends 3 was never actually greenlit, it was just an open prototype. most similar prototypes are simply never seen by the public. But this one adopted a transparent dev process, which I guess Inafune hoped would make it harder to cancel.

Universe similarly, was still in the works, and would not have been out for a while. We can't say if it was greenlit or not.

Online was in development, It was already greenlit. And was scrapped by Capcom after neowiz restructured and dropped it.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Trevor Belmondo on May 23, 2013, 03:30:41 AM
let me put it in perspective since you can't seem to understand over your frothing rage.

if it does not sell, it can not survive. back in the day, nes games were cheaper ti make. so despite mm1 not selling well, inafune and co. were allowed to work on 2 on the side in their free time. from there, it was a hit. its not about mainstream. cv was once mainstream. devs are influenced by current gaming trends. if they like it, they will incorporate similar.
 I would not. I was tired of IGA. I was tired of his practices and bad habits. I was kind of tired of metroidvania. the recent outings seemed uninspired to me, and I saw LoS as a breath of fresh air. I loced it. It was like a classicvania pulled into the modern day to me.

also you need to calm yourself. you are ridiculously  overreacting, and its hard to take seriously.

and stop claiming opinion as fact. it is not dspicable or a travesty. why? because that's just your opinion.

I need to "calm" myself?
So you can't handle a "bad word" (oh no, call the principle) or someone else's opinion unless it aligns with yours?

What are you in high school still?

Let me explain to you how the real world works kiddo.
In the real world, everyone's not going to agree with you.
In fact, most people are going to flat out DISagree with you at almost every turn.
(Well maybe not on your Face Book. Not that i dabble in that mindlessness.)
It's called "free will", an "opinion" and/or "agreeing to disagree".

I am simply standing up for my opinion.

If that's "frothing rage" to you, the real thing will make you piss your pants.

That's life. Better get used to it.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 23, 2013, 06:46:04 AM

Let me explain to you how the real world works kiddo.
stopped reading there.
looks like you don't get it.


I present you with a rational explanation and advise you to not take a VIDEOGAME so damn seriously, and you respond with this kind of juvenile (and still quite mad) retort.

Yet I'M the kid, right?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ahasverus on May 23, 2013, 06:56:02 AM
stuff

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EM-F-wtiPOo/TrL8S8vY-tI/AAAAAAAABIE/S-G1xp6FrG4/s1600/cookie-monster-wtf-this_130497604469.jpg)

So you come to our discussion forums to give life lessons and disrespect one of our most active members just because his views are different to yours?

Go back to the real world, kiddo.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 23, 2013, 07:04:20 AM
Disrespect?

WELL, after nearly 12 years of being a member of THE CASTLEVANIA DUNGEON FORUMS I'm apparently a veteran or perhaps an elder god. I want you all to kneel down and kiss my ring, puny young worms. Get your butts to the ground before I whip you with my scepter.




..as I tell you that respecting anyone based on how long or active he has been in participating in Internet discussion forums is pretty much horseshit. It's the kind of thing that makes forums repulsive. That and junior moderating *cough*MGSforums.com*cough*
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Successor The Cruel on May 23, 2013, 07:06:56 AM
Maybe I'm the only one, but that's exactly what I'd like to get.
That, and music that sounds like Michiru Yamane.
I'm not trying to start a discussion here, you are cool Flame.
I just love MetroidVanias, and you mentioned some things I like about them.

Heheh. Just chiming in to say how charming I think that bold text within the quote is : p
Not at all in a bad way, of course : D
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Weiss Belmont on May 23, 2013, 07:36:06 AM
..as I tell you that respecting anyone based on how long or active he has been in participating in Internet discussion forums is pretty much horseshit. It's the kind of thing that makes forums repulsive.

Testify!!!

Much like MGSforums, the "older" members on this board tend to have their heads so far up their asses they should start having their mail delivered to their colon.

Look at me I've got +400 respect and 1,000+ posts. Real badasses in this bitch. Being "most active" on a forum just means you don't have an actual life, because people with jobs, school, and y'know girlfriends don't have the freetime to rack up 20+ posts a day like many of you. Bottom line is you have all at one point proved yourselves to be assholes. Same goes for me. So let's get back to the topic.

The major issue, the one key point you have all clusterfucked since this topic began is the simple conclusion that Cox is a douche. He is not the savior of Castlevania and he did not prevent the series from becoming another Mega Man.

1) Castlevania was never in the kind of danger to need "saving".

2) Mega Man as a franchise was doing fine until the higher-ups at Capcom got their panties in a bunch over Inafune's departure.

3) If, IF Castlevania was in any real danger of dying, Konami would have given the reins entirely to Kojima, not Cox.

4) He's an egomaniac who is his own biggest fan. EOD
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Successor The Cruel on May 23, 2013, 07:57:14 AM
I agree about the whole "Castlevania was not going" to die thing. I don't know why people jump to that dramatic conclusion. Sure it could have been better, but Castlevania was coming out consistently and making money for Konami, and therefore had a decent enough presence. And while some were becoming apathetic to it, the only games that were thought of to be real failures among general consensus were the 3D ones.

Considering the constraints on budget and development time, teamed with poor advertising, Konami got what they deserved from it. Maybe they wanted some kind of miracle where they only spend one week and fifty dollars and somehow make three million? I believe the faults with Castlevania pre-LoS --including game design and sales-- primarily fall on Konami, not IGA and his team. I'm certainly not saying IGA and co are perfect, as some of their ideas were just bad (DoS' and PoR's art direction, for example), but they clearly had very limited time and resources, and that was reflecting upon the quality of the games. Games like AoS and OoE show that they're capable of making very good games, but when pushed to meet such demands under the conditions they were in, it's no surprise that they buckled here and there.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Weiss Belmont on May 23, 2013, 08:03:33 AM
I'd rather give Mega Man to Inti Creates.

Inti Creates is made of former Capcom Employees, many of whom worked on Mega Man games. (Inti also made the Zero series, the ZX series, and MM 9 and 10) Those guys know what they are doing. they LOVE story and continuity, and they really GET what makes Mega Man work.

Good point.



I don't really approve of Nintendo getting Mega Man. they have issues too. They whore out Mario and LoZ, (and Pokemon) but leave other series forgotten. Like Starfox, or Metroid.

How dare you sir?! Everyone knows that Miyamotomania is running wild brother! And I'll tell you something else dude, Nintendo is going to win the console war. XD


Fun fact: SF:IV was an unwanted product within Capcom right up until release, where it turns out it was actually a hit, and Capcom was quick to scoop it up and suddenly give it love. Ono recalls people always asking him why he was working on an unprofitable game like Street fighter 4, and why he wasnt working on something better.

Everyone knows that Street Fighter puts balls to the walls. Even Capcom knows it. I'm sure that even internally they get tired of SF about as much as Squenix gets tired of FF, but the fact is they know it's going to sell. They milked SF2, they milked SF3, they milked the Alpha series until the poor thing was dry. They knew long before they even started work on SF4 that it was going to be a blockbuster.


Also, Maverick Hunter was way before any of the other 3. It was started and cancelled back in 2010. It doesn't really count in the same basket as the other 3. And it's reason for cancellation is understandable, although I'm sure it would have done fine. Because they felt it might alienate the players by being too different.

I'll concede.




Legends 3 was never actually greenlit, it was just an open prototype. most similar prototypes are simply never seen by the public. But this one adopted a transparent dev process, which I guess Inafune hoped would make it harder to cancel.

Despite massive public interest Capcom cancelled the game because according to them, gamers weren't interested.  :-\
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Weiss Belmont on May 23, 2013, 08:11:24 AM
I agree about the whole "Castlevania was not going" to die thing. I don't know why people jump to that dramatic conclusion.

Because they hang out on forums all day, read GI, and visit IGN. Ladies and gentlemen, I present the "fans."


Sure it could have been better, but Castlevania was coming out consistently and making money for Konami, and therefore had a decent enough presence. And while some were becoming apathetic to it, the only games that were thought of to be real failures among general consensus were the 3D ones.

Everything you have said is true my man. There were so many Castlevania games released for the handhelds I felt like I was missing out and indeed I still am. As far as Castlevania goes 3DS is where it's at. Some might say that's because there isn't a big push for console ports. No, no of course not. Because Castlevania sells more on the handhelds and if you couple that with cheaper development costs it's a win-win for Konami.


Considering the constraints on budget and development time, teamed with poor advertising, Konami got what they deserved from it. Maybe they wanted some kind of miracle where they only spend one week and fifty dollars and somehow make three million? I believe the faults with Castlevania pre-LoS --including game design and sales-- primarily fall on Konami, not IGA and his team. I'm certainly not saying IGA and co are perfect, as some of their ideas were just bad (DoS' and PoR's art direction, for example), but they clearly had very limited time and resources, and that was reflecting upon the quality of the games.

You're exactly right. It's like when Squenix bitched about sales for Human Revolution and Sleeping Dogs. Both games did well but could have done much better if they had some actual marketing power behind it. Konami focuses all its attention on Metal Gear and typically forgets they even have a Castlevania in the works until what, a month before release. Case in point, we know more about both Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain than we do of Lords of Shadow 2. THAT's fucked up.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Nagumo on May 23, 2013, 08:15:25 AM
Hmmm, not to be sound like I'm pointing this out just to be annoying, but I don't think the part about IGA not having enough budget is true:

Iga: I would definitely like to develop still more Castlevania games for the DS platform! For the US market, though, the retail price on DS games are traditionally very low - $30, maybe $40 if the game card itself has a larger capacity. The development costs for Castlevania do tend to be higher than average for a DS game, so it's hard to get some concepts for the series approved. I love the DS and want to continue work on it, but I'm not sure if it's the best option from a pure business standpoint.

I still agree that Konami tended to neglect Castlevania in other ways but it's important to put things in perspective.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 23, 2013, 08:20:27 AM
I don't think Castlevania was dying in the sense that it was about to cease completely. It just wasn't living up to Konami's expectations. They wanted to turn it bigger.

I think the series needs revitalizing. Just not to the extent and in the way LoS does it. The state CV was/is, wasn't primarily because of Castlevania's contents, as Konami seems to think. It was also because they have neglected the series for so long. It's not..

1. This game doesn't have QTEs and a non-melodic soundtrack. That must be the reason we don't have tennis courts in our new yachts!

..as much as it was

2. Guys, I feel like I've forgotten something. It's like 25 years ago something happened. It had to do something with meat inside walls or shit like that. I don't know. How are we doing with that next Metal Gear? Castlevania, you say? I don't know. Churn out something for the portables. You know where those sprites are, right? Use them.

 I like to think of LoS as unnecessary electro-shock CPR that puts the patient in a coma. When he wakes up, I hope he remembers his relatives, motor functions and recuperates fast and effectively.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Successor The Cruel on May 23, 2013, 08:22:28 AM
I do recall in an interview IGA did for DoS (I believe), he said that his team had to rip older enemies from SotN and Rondo due to either lack of money or lack of time, so something was certainly not right over there.

Well, we can't say exactly what their budget was, but we can gauge their dev time based upon the intervals these games came out at, and it was rather low. Much lower than the MS games.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 23, 2013, 08:27:15 AM
Quote
Bottom line is you have all at one point proved yourselves to be assholes.
I wear my badge proudly.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/c0mbat/securedownload-17_zpsc83fb48c.jpg)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Weiss Belmont on May 23, 2013, 08:33:27 AM
2. Guys, I feel like I've forgotten something. It's like 25 years ago something happened. It had to do something with meat inside walls or shit like that. I don't know. How are we doing with that next Metal Gear? Castlevania, you say? I don't know. Churn out something for the portables. You know where those sprites are, right? Use them.

I know you're partly joking but yeah they seriously keep that shit in a folder. I know I've heard that about FF at least that all the older sprites are literally in a folder on some guys desktop.


I wear my badge proudly.

You sir are a King among men.  8)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Sindra on May 27, 2013, 08:44:07 AM
Testify!!!

Much like MGSforums, the "older" members on this board tend to have their heads so far up their asses they should start having their mail delivered to their colon.


You watch your tone, whippersnapper. I will beat your punk ass off my lawn with my Golden Hunchback cane.

Now where the fuck are my prunes?! It's time for Murder She Wrote.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on May 27, 2013, 03:15:51 PM
I've been busy checking the botched upgrades on the board, and have forgotten to check on the threads.

@Weiss Belmont:

Although, indeed, the tenure of a person's stay on a particular board relating to how right they are about things is superfluous, your tone regarding the fanbase is a clear violation of the "Don't be an ass" rule.  This is one of the fundamental rules on this board.

Please take the time to read The Rules Thread (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,2199.0.html).

I think you should exercise a level of respect toward others as you post.
Failure to do so will result in a number of warnings, and then a ban.

In the real world you generally have to respect other people and not go around verbally assaulting them.  Though you may not go to prison for it, you will not do well in most aspects of society if you behave in those fashions.

It is very similar in here.

So I suggest you don't go around insulting the people who are posting with you.

That is all.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on May 28, 2013, 02:59:15 AM
My 2 cents:

1.IGA's games were becoming the Castlevania equivalent of Madden. Pretty much the same thing with some changes. Yes, I played em, I enjoyed some of them, but by the time OoE came out, I was sick to death of them. They were on their way to turning CV into the next Mega Man.

2.If you were alienated by LoS, it's because you chose to be and probably had your mind made up about it before you even played it. Are there things about it that I don't necessarily like? Sure. But LoS has a lot in common with the other 3D games in the series The climbing/shimmying was a big part of the 64 games; the combat has quite a bit in common with LoI, which came before God Of War. So a lot of the stuff people are crying about aren't necessarily additions from left field.

2.5 LoS was a reboot. If you thought it was going to be exactly like any of the other games, well....you were delusional. But that said, I wouldn't call LoS a risk. It's an excellent game, but it's not like they turned CV into an MMORPG. Now THAT'S a risk!

3.Cox is a loudmouth and needs to shut his cock-washer, focus on on the games, and stop tweeting when he gets drunk and belligerent.

4.Konami/MS SHOULDN'T listen to the community. The community doesn't know what it wants. If Konami made the games the community says it wanted, the only people who'd buy CV games would be the people on this forum. And the series really WOULD die. No offense to anyone here, but when I read the opinions of some of the folks on CV forums, it makes me wonder if some of you eat the same things every day.

5.You can still play the old games. They still exist. LoS coming out hasn't completely ripped them from existence. If you want to play nothing but 2D Castleroid games, you can do that and there's nothing anyone can do about it. It's even easier to do nowadays what with emulation.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I still can't figure out why people don't like the DMC reboot. As a fan of that series since the first game, I don't understand how people say it's "not a DMC game" just like the people who say LoS isn't a CV game. It looks, feels, and plays like DMC. Makes me wonder how much of the older DMC games some of the folks slagging it have actually played.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Maedhros on May 28, 2013, 03:08:28 AM

2.If you were alienated by LoS, it's because you chose to be and probably had your mind made up about it before you even played it. Are there things about it that I don't necessarily like? Sure. But LoS has a lot in common with the 64 games than any other games in the series; games that I imagine few people have given a chance and really played. The combat has quite a bit in common with LoI, which came before God Of War. So a lot of the stuff people are crying about aren't necessarily additions from left field.

2.5 LoS was a reboot. If you thought it was going to be exactly like any of the other games, well....you were delusional. But that said, I wouldn't call LoS a risk. It's an excellent game, but it's not like they turned CV into an MMORPG. Now THAT'S a risk!

4.Konami/MS SHOULDN'T listen to the community. The community doesn't know what it wants. If Konami made the games the community says it wanted, the only people who'd buy CV games would be the people on this forum. And the series really WOULD die. No offense to anyone here, but when I read the opinions of some of the folks on CV forums, it makes me wonder if some of you eat the same things every day.

5.You can still play the old games. They still exist. LoS coming out hasn't completely ripped them from existence. If you want to play nothing but 2D Castleroid games, you can do that and there's nothing anyone can do about it. It's even easier to do nowadays what with emulation.


2 - Not really. The combat feels like God of War more than LoI for me. I played both too.
2.5 - Not the point. Being a remake doesn't let the game be immune from critics. Personally, being a reboot was the least of the LoS problems for me, having shitty modern gameplay and some choice designs is what made the game cringe-worth for me (I don't really like the games it's based on). Also music is not my cup of tea, even though I understand the score of the game asked for music like that
4 - Offense taken... nah, not really. Yeah, they need to catter to LoS fans right now, which aren't people who loved the old games of the franchise (mostly).
5 - People want new games based on the past experiences they had. Not a point at all.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Abnormal Freak on May 28, 2013, 03:42:09 AM
The argument that "the old things will never go away" never holds up because, just as Maedhros pointed out, new experiences are desired. I love a game like Rondo of Blood, and can continue to play it over and over as I have, but there's nothing new.

I wasn't terribly pleased with the DSvanias myself so I can't say that I miss IGA or wish he could make more games. I'd like some new blood, and even some 3D games; but from what I played of LOS, it just doesn't feel much like Castlevania to me. It's the Super Mario Bros.: The Movie of the franchise.

When God of War came out, I recall hearing a statement from Kojima that this is how a 3D Castlevania should be done. I couldn't see it then, and I can't see it now that such a project has been executed. Despite the PS2 games doing it, I have a difficult time seeing Castlevania as a hack-and-slash series. I think it's a very misguided approach.

I don't see the point in "keeping a franchise alive" if it's not going to resemble said franchise.

I'm all for branching out and experimentation, but you can't just completely rewrite everything. All the good reboots (games, movies, anime series) still retain many core details and are faithful to the source material while creating new ideas.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 28, 2013, 04:36:30 AM
Quote
On a somewhat unrelated note, I still can't figure out why people don't like the DMC reboot. As a fan of that series since the first game, I don't understand how people say it's "not a DMC game" just like the people who say LoS isn't a CV game. It looks, feels, and plays like DMC. Makes me wonder how much of the older DMC games some of the folks slagging it have actually played.
It's the Dante Redesign, plain and simple. It reeks, and is a self-insert of the game's director.

Plus, there was no real need for a reboot, from what i understand, the DMC franchise was doing fine.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 28, 2013, 05:40:55 AM
A lot of fans were also jaded because they (MercurySteam, Cox) were initially labelling the game as "Super Castlevania IV in 3D," which is a HIGHLY debatable claim.

Then they tried saying MoF was their version of CVIII. We all know how that turned out.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 28, 2013, 05:55:09 AM
That. And I'm sure outright lying or at least bendings of the truth have happened. Wasn't there something about Cox saying there wouldn't be QTEs in MoF? Just doing a little recap here.  Also, their bumbling and/or trollish statements.

I stress that this is just my opinion, but I still think LoS was not originally a Castlevania game.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 28, 2013, 09:19:16 AM
except it was. there's no way around it
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 28, 2013, 09:58:22 AM
Like I said, feel free to think so.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: X on May 28, 2013, 09:59:14 AM
Quote
2.If you were alienated by LoS, it's because you chose to be and probably had your mind made up about it before you even played it. Are there things about it that I don't necessarily like? Sure. But LoS has a lot in common with the other 3D games in the series The climbing/shimmying was a big part of the 64 games; the combat has quite a bit in common with LoI, which came before God Of War. So a lot of the stuff people are crying about aren't necessarily additions from left field.

I must disagree with this. I never chose to be alienated by LoS. It just alienated me, period. I knew it was going to be different and I went in with no real expectations, but I was not expecting what I saw and played. I gave the game a chance, more-so then it deserved. But in the end I'd had enough. It let me down. True that there was wall shimmying and climbing like in the N64 titles, but it was balanced and not over saturated like it is in LoS. The whip combat has almost zero to do with LoI and much, much more with GoW and that's what MS was aiming for when they did the combat system.

Quote
A lot of fans were also jaded because they (MercurySteam, Cox) were initially labelling the game as "Super Castlevania IV in 3D," which is a HIGHLY debatable claim.

Then they tried saying MoF was their version of CVIII. We all know how that turned out.

*Nod-nod*

Yep. True dat.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 28, 2013, 10:01:07 AM
Maybe LoS2 will be "like Simon's Quest".

I wonder what that would turn out to be.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on May 28, 2013, 10:06:30 AM
In the real world you generally have to respect other people and not go around verbally assaulting them.  Though you may not go to prison for it, you will not do well in most aspects of society if you behave in those fashions.

It is very similar in here.

So I suggest you don't go around insulting the people who are posting with you.

That is all.
That was actually pretty elegantly put. I wouldve said, "In the real world, you act like an asshole, you're gonna get your asshole kicked! It's true. ;D It's like those guys that show up to parties and everybody's like, "Oh GOD, who invited HIM? He's such a douche!!". The kind of guy who walks towards a crowd and they part like the Red Sea. Nobody wants to be friends with those kinds of people. They are off-putting, annoying and embarrassing.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 28, 2013, 11:44:13 AM
Maybe LoS2 will be "like Simon's Quest".

I wonder what that would turn out to be.

"Lords of Shadows 2: Dracula's Quest"

"You now prosess your rib!"
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Abnormal Freak on May 28, 2013, 11:57:01 AM
I must disagree with this. I never chose to be alienated by LoS. It just alienated me, period. I knew it was going to be different and I went in with no real expectations, but I was not expecting what I saw and played. I gave the game a chance, more-so then it deserved. But in the end I'd had enough. It let me down.

Same here. I'm sure people recall me saying LOS was pretty damn cool when I first gave it a shot. I was trying to be optimistic and see the good things, but eventually it all really grated on me. I know the comparison has been drawn plenty of times before, but it almost felt like Lord of the Rings: The Video Game, which I thought from the very beginning when the teaser was shown, before it was officially called a Castlevania game, and folks were saying, "This should be a Castlevania game!!!!!!" Big non-Japanese-lookin' trolls definitely aren't what I associate with Castlevania.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Chernabogue on May 28, 2013, 12:58:51 PM
(http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxjlubLtHY1rn1xxfo1_100.gif)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ahasverus on May 28, 2013, 01:17:22 PM
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/motorhead069/AndHereWeGo.gif)

Not this again.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 28, 2013, 01:19:19 PM
Everything comes full circle
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kale on May 28, 2013, 01:57:38 PM
LoS is not horrible. It just isn't great.

And when LoS came out or rather, announced... it didn't really show much. If I recall correctly it just showed Gabriel jumping through a window. It looked cool, it showed off character design and cutscenes... both of which is still good in LoS. The gameplay is what I dislike.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 28, 2013, 02:40:50 PM
"All it takes is one mention of [Lords of Shadows], and everyone goes batshit insane."
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Successor The Cruel on May 28, 2013, 03:25:26 PM
Lord of the Rings: The Video Game, which I thought from the very beginning when the teaser was shown, before it was officially called a Castlevania game, and folks were saying, "This should be a Castlevania game!!!!!!" Big non-Japanese-lookin' trolls definitely aren't what I associate with Castlevania.

I admit that I think this teaser still has some nice style to it, which could fit in well with Castlevania.
Also, Gabriel's pose at 1:15 seems rather Japanese to me. Holding out your hand, looking down at the floor (not at your opponent) and then doing a whip strike? That pleasantly overly dramatic display actually seems like something a character in an anime might do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZ-IoRZf00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZ-IoRZf00)

There simply wasn't enough shown for it to be fishy. I get that the ogre is a World of Warcraft looking enemy, but we had no idea that the game would be filled with those...

The more we saw, the more we were like, "Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhh... WTF!?!?"
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 28, 2013, 03:36:14 PM
Perhaps they should've played it safe & stuck with their original pitch?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR2bb2OfdbY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR2bb2OfdbY)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on May 28, 2013, 04:00:42 PM
I admit that I think this teaser still has some nice style to it, which could fit in well with Castlevania.
Also, Gabriel's pose at 1:15 seems rather Japanese to me. Holding out your hand, looking down at the floor (not at your opponent) and then doing a whip strike? That pleasantly overly dramatic display actually seems like something a character in an anime might do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZ-IoRZf00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZ-IoRZf00)

There simply wasn't enough shown for it to be fishy. I get that the ogre is a World of Warcraft looking enemy, but we had no idea that the game would be filled with those...

The more we saw, the more we were like, "Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhh... WTF!?!?"
PERSONALLY, I would've preferred(and perhaps respect a little more) if they made the ogre(in the trailer and the boss) Balore instead of a typical "Ogre". I mean, they wouldn't even have to do much(just give him a raw eye that shoots lasers), as they can make it an HD version of DoS's Balore:

Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow - Balore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLsTyfty94Q#)

I mean, artistic wise and size, Balore and the Ogre look VERY similar:

(http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/14275421/images/590/clos_421.jpg)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on May 28, 2013, 04:23:19 PM
(http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxjlubLtHY1rn1xxfo1_100.gif)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/motorhead069/AndHereWeGo.gif)

Not this again.

(http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/image/watching.gif)


LOL you guyz!
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on May 28, 2013, 04:43:08 PM
2 - Not really. The combat feels like God of War more than LoI for me. I played both too.
2.5 - Not the point. Being a remake doesn't let the game be immune from critics. Personally, being a reboot was the least of the LoS problems for me, having shitty modern gameplay and some choice designs is what made the game cringe-worth for me (I don't really like the games it's based on). Also music is not my cup of tea, even though I understand the score of the game asked for music like that
4 - Offense taken... nah, not really. Yeah, they need to catter to LoS fans right now, which aren't people who loved the old games of the franchise (mostly).

Other than the grab button, the combat is straight out of LoI. Gabriel and Leon have a lot of the same moves too.

I'm not saying the game should be immune from critics, I'm saying that you should expect anything classified as a reboot to be a good deal of a departure from what came before. That's why it's a reboot and not a sequel. RE: "shitty modern gameplay" Are you typing this on a typewriter? I don't think there's anything wrong with LoS' take on modern gameplay. It's well paced, challenging, and fun imo.

*I* loved the old games, and LoS is the best Castlevania imo since Dracula X Chronicles. Honestly, I've always felt like a some of the older games got a bad rap by people who came on with SoTN or the Castleroids, and didn't give the games i loved the most a chance. So I guess it depends on your perspective.

Quote
5 - People want new games based on the past experiences they had. Not a point at all.

The argument that "the old things will never go away" never holds up because, just as Maedhros pointed out, new experiences are desired. I love a game like Rondo of Blood, and can continue to play it over and over as I have, but there's nothing new.

Sure, but when what you want isn't being made anymore, you still have the older games to go back to. It's why people still listen to old music. I get it, and I understand (it's partially why DXC is my favorite CV game) but you either stick with the old or get with the new.

A lot of fans were also jaded because they (MercurySteam, Cox) were initially labelling the game as "Super Castlevania IV in 3D," which is a HIGHLY debatable claim.

Then they tried saying MoF was their version of CVIII. We all know how that turned out.

That's silly though. What kind of claim IS that? How would they do that, and why would anyone believe that it was going to be like that? One thing i've learned is that when they liken any new game to an old game, it's usually bullshit and they're just using it to suck people in.

I must disagree with this. I never chose to be alienated by LoS. It just alienated me, period. I knew it was going to be different and I went in with no real expectations, but I was not expecting what I saw and played. I gave the game a chance, more-so then it deserved. But in the end I'd had enough. It let me down. True that there was wall shimmying and climbing like in the N64 titles, but it was balanced and not over saturated like it is in LoS. The whip combat has almost zero to do with LoI and much, much more with GoW and that's what MS was aiming for when they did the combat system.

If you don't like it, you don't like it. That's one thing. But people act like MS/Konami have offended them personally by releasing something that isn't exactly like what's come before. I'm not shocked or surprised, it's the internet, land of hyperbole.

I thought there was a good amount of shimmying/grappling. It was nice to have some actual platforming, and the scale on which it occurred was interesting and gave the environments a good sense of size. You can experience how huge the castle is by grappling and moving around it rather than that info coming only in the form of a shot of the outside. They show you rather than tell you. Same with the 64 games.

As far as the combat goes, like I said above, it's totally reminiscent of LoI other than the grab button and the magic meters. Gabe and Leon have some of the same moves, and the layout is the same. The camera angle is different too in LoS, it's more like CoD's, which may account for any other differences you notice. I'm not saying it's NOTHING like GoW, but again, it's plenty influenced by LoI.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 28, 2013, 05:12:15 PM
Quote
That's silly though. What kind of claim IS that? How would they do that, and why would anyone believe that it was going to be like that? One thing i've learned is that when they liken any new game to an old game, it's usually bullshit and they're just using it to suck people in.

Well when the previews for LoS were coming out, we (well most of us) were extremely gullible and quick to give the benefit of the doubt. Cox has been on record saying that "SCVIV is his bible" and LoS is largely based on that game. Of course many of us got excited because SCVIV is an awesome game, in a lot of our Top 5 CV's, but.. the final product was very different with only a few hints of SCVIV here & there (yeah i know this is subjective, as fans see things differently, but for me and apparently a lot of others on this forum feel the SCVIV elements were few & far between). That upset a lot of fans since Cox was touting the game was gonna be the 3D equivalent. We were gullible because some of us thought (more like hoped) this was gonna be the next CV game that would dethrone Symphony in legacy. The joke was on us I guess!

And that's when the mistrust of MS/Cox started to begin, with the fumbling of words in interviews, misleadings of gameplay elements, etc. Doesn't help that Cox doesn't come off as a humble servant of the fans, despite claiming that LoS is a "love letter to Castlevania;" He's a guy that loves to hear himself talk, block fans on Twitter for questioning his design choices or inquiring about his contradictions, subtly denounce Castlevania's legacy (yeah he hasn't outright said that, but in his interviews, you gotta read between the lines), etc. I don't mean to drag IGA into this, but, his games aside, he was almost the exact opposite of Cox in demeanor, and passion for tradition AND fans of the series. I still think a team-up of Cox/IGA/MercurySteam would've yielded far better results than what we got, since IGA seems to "get" Castlevania's gothic atmosphere/aesthetic & the little details we as fans love to see, moreso than the developers at MS.

Remember that rotating spiraling parallax room in SCVIV where you're constantly jumping from panel to panel fending off skeletons? Cox has said they have something "like that" in LoS2. Lets see how THAT'S gonna turn out. (although it'll prolly turn out awesome, I'm sure there's gonna be shimmying of some sort involved)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on May 28, 2013, 05:18:44 PM
Maedhros does not speak for the fans of the old games. Most people I know who have been fans of CV for 20+ years loved LOS. The problem is that most of those people choose not to nerd it up with us on these forums.

Dr. Mario, you're absolutely right with everything you said. But keep in mind that this forum and all of the other CV forums reflect only a small percentage of CV fans. So don't pay too much mind to the hardcore IGA fans who cannot embrace a much needed change.

IGA started off great with CV but over the years his games really started to wear out and his creative limitations were evident. If this were not true, he would still be making CV games. It was his time to go.

If MS stops after LOS2 I'll be excited again for someone else to take over. The best thing to do is just to have a positive attitude about it.

We all have our own fantasies about the perfect CV game. And we'll never all agree on one. I prefer the action oriented CV's like CV1,3, 4, bloodlines and Dracula x.

On that note I want to tell everyone to go Download Castlevania The Lecarde Chronicles. This game better than any official Konami CV I've played in a long, long time.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 28, 2013, 05:29:36 PM
Quote
So don't pay too much mind to the hardcore IGA fans who cannot embrace a much needed change.

Please don't generalize the members of the forum as "hardcore IGA fans who cannot embrace change." That's such an ignorant, downright false response. We are Castlevania fans, not IGA fans. If you've been around for the past 6+ years then you'd realize this, and a lot of us wanted a change from IGA's formula as well. That doesn't mean we should automatically give LoS a free-pass just because it was radically different from "igavania," you know.

IGA's games when he was still the figurehead of the series were heavily criticized here, both negatively and positively. LoS is also heavily criticized here, both positively and negatively. And that's the truth of the matter, no matter how you feel about it.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on May 28, 2013, 05:34:36 PM
Well when the previews for LoS were coming out, we (well most of us) were extremely gullible and quick to give the benefit of the doubt. Cox has been on record saying that "SCVIV is his bible" and LoS is largely based on that game. Of course many of us got excited because SCVIV is an awesome game, in a lot of our Top 5 CV's, but.. the final product was very different with only a few hints of SCVIV here & there (yeah i know this is subjective, as fans see things differently, but for me and apparently a lot of others on this forum feel the SCVIV elements were few & far between). That upset a lot of fans since Cox was touting the game was gonna be the 3D equivalent. We were gullible because some of us thought (more like hoped) this was gonna be the next CV game that would dethrone Symphony in legacy. The joke was on us I guess!

And that's when the mistrust of MS/Cox started to begin, with the fumbling of words in interviews, misleadings of gameplay elements, etc. Doesn't help that Cox doesn't come off as a humble servant of the fans, despite claiming that LoS is a "love letter to Castlevania;" He's a guy that loves to hear himself talk, block fans on Twitter for questioning his design choices or inquiring about his contradictions, subtly denounce Castlevania's legacy (yeah he hasn't outright said that, but in his interviews, you gotta read between the lines), etc. I don't mean to drag IGA into this, but, his games aside, he was almost the exact opposite of Cox in demeanor, and passion for tradition AND fans of the series. I still think a team-up of Cox/IGA/MercurySteam would've yielded far better results than what we got, since IGA seems to "get" Castlevania's gothic atmosphere/aesthetic & the little details we as fans love to see, moreso than the developers at MS.

Remember that rotating spiraling parallax room in SCVIV where you're constantly jumping from panel to panel fending off skeletons? Cox has said they have something "like that" in LoS2. Lets see how THAT'S gonna turn out. (although it'll prolly turn out awesome, I'm sure there's gonna be shimmying of some sort involved)

I guess it's all about keeping your expectations in check, something I don't think ANY community is very good at. I'm not saying Cox isn't a dick (see what I did there? Cox/dick, ah hahaha!) but I'd rather have a guy who's a dick that puts out games I like than a nice guy who puts out the same old same old every year. I think the thing to remember is that, much like most folks here, Cox has his own idea of what constitutes a CV game. But unlike us here, he's actually in a position of power to make his vision happen. Being rude to the community isn't a good look though. Those are the people who get you paid. But he got a lot of grief over the direction and probably got tired of hearing about how bad a job he was doing, so I can understand his frustration somewhat, being called on the carpet by nitpicky fans every other day.

 I WOULD love to see a 3d rendition of the stage 4-1 in SCVIV! Man, that was one of my favorite levels!


Good stuff

 :)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Abnormal Freak on May 28, 2013, 05:54:20 PM
(http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/image/watching.gif)


LOL you guyz!

Just becuz u dewdz talk Castlevania all tha tiem duzn't mean tha rest uv us do ;)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on May 28, 2013, 06:01:08 PM
Please don't generalize the members of the forum as "hardcore IGA fans who cannot embrace change." That's such an ignorant, downright false response. We are Castlevania fans, not IGA fans. If you've been around for the past 6+ years then you'd realize this, and a lot of us wanted a change from IGA's formula as well. That doesn't mean we should automatically give LoS a free-pass just because it was radically different from "igavania," you know.

I wasn't generalizing the members of this forum. I was referring to the "hardcore IGA fans" who cannot embrace change. There are very loud members on this forum who fit this description. I certainly did not mean to imply that EVERYONE on this forum is part of that group.

This is a forum for Castlevania. We should be able to have a thread on this forum where we can discuss Lords of Shadow, the most current home console installment of the series, which was and is very successful; without it turning into a roast of the games developer just because the game is different. It was made to be different from other CV's!

And I for one saw the CV4 inspiration in this game. It wasn't as much in the game play as it was in the vibe of the game. It had that classic more adult vibe to it, and not the anime cartoonish look. If other player's can't see that, that's too bad. I will repeat that my biggest complaint for LOS was the loss of whipping candles to get items.. Barrels just don't do it for me. That's my biggest gripe, and it's trivial.

MOF missed the mark by a long shot in my opinion. But I think we have every reason as CV fans to be excited for LOS2.






Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 28, 2013, 06:22:05 PM
Quote
But he got a lot of grief over the direction and probably got tired of hearing about how bad a job he was doing, so I can understand his frustration somewhat, being called on the carpet by nitpicky fans every other day.

Well that's the thing, he's in a position that those types of comments will come his way & he has to learn to deal with them accordingly. Blocking, and in some cases insulting those that have simple critiques isn't the right way to handle it, imo. It wasn't even necessarily the "direction" or "bad job he's doing" with Castlevania that makes him block people. It's simple QUESTIONS, and/or innocent criticisms. For example, our member Nagumo called him out on Twitter after he said (on more than 1 occasion, mind you) that Alucard & Trevor were NOT the same, in fact 2 different characters, immediately shooting down any speculation otherwise. When that proved to be obviously false, Nagumo tweeted "You said Trevor doesn't turn into Alucard! Liar liar pants on fire!".. guess what he did? He BLOCKED her. seriously, wtf? Was that really warranted? He couldn't have just said "haha yeah well i had to mislead you guys till the game came out, sorry! :)"

Shit like that is what rubs people the wrong way, and that's just 1 example. Araujo came under fire for calling Michiru Yamane's music too "feminine." Sure, that could just be his personal opinion, but when you're in that position dealing with thousands of fans, you have to learn how to word your opinions properly, so that you don't offend the fans that are BUYING YOUR GAME. There's been many interviews where MS/Cox say stuff like "We don't care about what other fans want or think, we're doing what we want, how we want." (not exactly in those words, but again, it's reading between the lines). But then turn around and say they want to "make our game like the classics, to appease the fans."

Quote
We should be able to have a thread on this forum where we can discuss Lords of Shadow, the most current home console installment of the series, which was and is very successful; without it turning into a roast of the games developer just because the game is different. It was made to be different from other CV's.

When IGA was the figurehead, there was non-stop roast fests of him and his metroidvanias on this very forum, as well as others. I remember all of it. People were insistent on calling him a detriment to the series, turning Castlevania into an anime-driven cheese-fest, even declaring him a sexist. Nowadays there's a new batch of fans calling Cox a detriment to the series, turning the series into a generic hodgepodge of GoW/SotC, disregarding the legacy, etc. And now people get mad at that, just how people got mad when they were saying those same insulting things about IGA. See where I'm getting at? You may not agree with it, but I hope you understand both developers have gotten their share of flack, unwarranted or otherwise. The only difference is IGA, in all his interviews, was and is a humble guy that loved communicating with the fans about several aspects of the series. Cox, on the other hand, isn't so humble (or doesn't appear to be). I'm not saying he should be just like IGA in his demeanor, but it would help if he'd stop trolling the fans on seemingly minor stuff like gameplay, "no QTE's," etc. 


And for the record, I'm highly anticipating LoS2 and loving the previews from the little we've seen (hell I'm in the minority here that liked MoF despite it's glaring flaws), just in case anybody thinks I'm needlessly bashing the LoS series and it's production team.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on May 28, 2013, 06:28:10 PM
I was too busy putting the mack on back in those days to be on a CV forum. But if that's really how it was, then I suppose you can empathize with some of these LOS fans on here, can't you?

It feels great to talk things out like this Crisis... If I could, I'd take you out for a beer right now!
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Abnormal Freak on May 28, 2013, 06:35:56 PM
lol, "I wuz too bizzy bangin' hoez, bro" is the funniest fucking statement I ever see on nerd-centered message boards.

By that I mean really damn redundant and asinine.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Inccubus on May 28, 2013, 06:46:50 PM
Bottom line. Cox didn't save Castlevania from monotony. This is what this all amounts to anyway. Konami moved the series away from the monotony it was slipping into a before Cox got involved when decided to solicit new concepts for a more modern game.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on May 28, 2013, 06:56:45 PM
Well that's the thing, he's in a position that those types of comments will come his way & he has to learn to deal with them accordingly. Blocking, and in some cases insulting those that have simple critiques isn't the right way to handle it, imo. It wasn't even necessarily the "direction" or "bad job he's doing" with Castlevania that makes him block people. It's simple QUESTIONS, and/or innocent criticisms. For example, our member Nagumo called him out on Twitter after he said (on more than 1 occasion, mind you) that Alucard & Trevor were NOT the same, in fact 2 different characters, immediately shooting down any speculation otherwise. When that proved to be obviously false, Nagumo tweeted "You said Trevor doesn't turn into Alucard! Liar liar pants on fire!".. guess what he did? He BLOCKED her. seriously, wtf? Was that really warranted? He couldn't have just said "haha yeah well i had to mislead you guys till the game came out, sorry! :)"



I think we can agree that Cox is thin-skinned, but Nagumo's response wasn't exactly mature, and I could see him not wanting to deal with that.  :P
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on May 28, 2013, 06:58:55 PM
lol, "I wuz too bizzy bangin' hoez, bro" is the funniest fucking statement I ever see on nerd-centered message boards.

By that I mean really damn redundant and asinine.

Lighten up Freak  :rollseyes:. That was meant as a joke, however true. Asinine... Yes. But hey, I was a young teenage boy in those years. I still played every CV game and collected them all. But the last place you would have found me in those times would have been a forum. But I did frequent the CV Dungeon site in those days. Mostly just to read about games and look at fan fiction and art. I've always loved the fan made stuff, even back then.

Point is, I've been visiting this site for many years. I just didn't engage in the forum until a few years ago when I started creating my own fan fiction. 
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Abnormal Freak on May 28, 2013, 07:02:20 PM
It's just that most broz who use that line tend to be very disparaging and try to come across as hot shits who were too busy with girls and not being lame and chatting video games. If you didn't mean to say it that way or in that tone, my apologies. ;D
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Gecko on May 28, 2013, 07:20:54 PM
PERSONALLY, I would've preferred(and perhaps respect a little more) if they made the ogre(in the trailer and the boss) Balore instead of a typical "Ogre". I mean, they wouldn't even have to do much(just give him a raw eye that shoots lasers), as they can make it an HD version of DoS's Balore:

Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow - Balore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLsTyfty94Q#)

I mean, artistic wise and size, Balore and the Ogre look VERY similar:

(http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/14275421/images/590/clos_421.jpg)

I know they didn't call him Balore in LoS, but that was totally Balore. Giant ogre that stands at a distance and uses his hands to attack you. You slice up his eyes before ultimately defeating him. That's REALLY close. But yeah, he doesn't lazer eye you. Still, I always call him Balore when I play that stage.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 28, 2013, 07:24:02 PM
I admit that I think this teaser still has some nice style to it, which could fit in well with Castlevania.
Also, Gabriel's pose at 1:15 seems rather Japanese to me. Holding out your hand, looking down at the floor (not at your opponent) and then doing a whip strike? That pleasantly overly dramatic display actually seems like something a character in an anime might do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZ-IoRZf00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZ-IoRZf00)

There simply wasn't enough shown for it to be fishy. I get that the ogre is a World of Warcraft looking enemy, but we had no idea that the game would be filled with those...

The more we saw, the more we were like, "Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhh... WTF!?!?"

Im particularly fond of this version that somebody added CV music to. It just works so well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIu0ywRazGg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIu0ywRazGg)

(http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxjlubLtHY1rn1xxfo1_100.gif)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/motorhead069/AndHereWeGo.gif)

Not this again.
(http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/image/watching.gif)


LOL you guyz!

(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/2837510/michael-jackson-eating-popcorn-o.gif)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kingshango on May 28, 2013, 08:11:29 PM
Man that last page was straight outta 2009/2010.....ehhh what the hell.

(http://tcpm.mrlazyinc.com/files/images/lawls/meme_faces/dis_gon_b_gud.gif)

Edit: Darn my inability to proofread.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on May 28, 2013, 08:30:57 PM
I was too busy putting the mack on back in those days to be on a CV forum. But if that's really how it was, then I suppose you can empathize with some of these LOS fans on here, can't you?

It feels great to talk things out like this Crisis... If I could, I'd take you out for a beer right now!

Haha, this makes me laugh.
Do not presume that because people are posting on this board, they do not have social lives that they have going on.  Multitasking is the skill of the adult.

That kind of assumption reeks of junior high schoolyard mentality.  Knock it off.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 28, 2013, 09:03:53 PM
20010
That Lords of Shadows 200 reveal, mirite?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on May 28, 2013, 09:54:29 PM
Haha, this makes me laugh.
Do not presume that because people are posting on this board, they do not have social lives that they have going on.  Multitasking is the skill of the adult.

That kind of assumption reeks of junior high schoolyard mentality.  Knock it off.

I'm glad it made you laugh. Because it was a joke.

I have never presumed anything about the social lives of any of the other members of this forum. It would seem hypocritical for me to make such a comment when I am on this forum myself, don't you think Jorge? Again, I was making a joke about when I was a young teenager. Multitasking is indeed the skill of an adult, being a parent, a student, and a full time union carpenter, I can attest to that. I have to trade sleep for every moment I get to work on compositions, or sprites.

My comment was lighthearted and in a good humor, which of course got blown way out of proportion. If you would prefer every debate over Mercury Steam and IGA to be hot headed and strictly partisan, then I can stay out of them. I was simply trying to lighten the mood.

Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on May 28, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Eh....The drama just ended....?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 29, 2013, 12:25:29 AM
Eh....The drama just ended....?
Not until I feel part of it  :)

I still think a team-up of Cox/IGA/MercurySteam would've yielded far better results than what we got, since IGA seems to "get" Castlevania's gothic atmosphere/aesthetic & the little details we as fans love to see, moreso than the developers at MS.
Yeah!

Araujo came under fire for calling Michiru Yamane's music too "feminine."
OMFG! WTF!? I didn't know that! Now I understand a little more about his music.
How dare Michiru Yamane compose music that is too delicate?
How Iga dared to have female protagonists in his games?
Everything is coming together...
MercurySteam is MUCHO MACHO, like Eric Cartman.

Back me up on this one girls, please!
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on May 29, 2013, 01:07:07 AM

OMFG! WTF!? I didn't know that! Now I understand a little more about his music.
How dare Michiru Yamane compose music that is too delicate?
How Iga dared to have female protagonists in his games?
Everything is coming together...
MercurySteam is MUCHO MACHO, like Eric Cartman.

Back me up on this one girls, please!

Actually I find his music a lot more "delicate": than hers is. O_o
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Abnormal Freak on May 29, 2013, 01:10:46 AM
For years after playing SOTN I didn't know Yamane was a woman so D:

I don't hear any kind of gender quality to the tunes. It just sounds like awesome Japanese v-game muzak to me.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Nagumo on May 29, 2013, 01:19:51 AM
I think we can agree that Cox is thin-skinned, but Nagumo's response wasn't exactly mature, and I could see him not wanting to deal with that.  :P

In my defense, I was mostly joking with that tweet. I even added a smiley at the end. 

 :'( 
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 29, 2013, 01:53:08 AM
Araujo came under fire for calling Michiru Yamane's music too "feminine." S

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and not consider this a sexist statement (and I honestly hardly care whether it is or not), but I'd like to point out IGA has been called a male chauvinist because he had the audacity to remove Sonia from canon, because "a woman would not likely be a warrior in that era" or something along those lines. A canon - if I may add - which may or may not be gone completely by now.

If anyone feels the need to fight for portrayal of women in video games, do you think LoS is much of an improvement? Because I think it's worse. Marie is a woman in refrigerator, Claudia was this mute girl protected by a masculine metal beast that got sliced and diced and then there's Carmilla The Cleavage Priestess / Horny Evil Vampire.

Again, I don't care about that stuff, but all I'll say is that if IGA is sexist, the guys who did LoS must be humanoid pigs.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 29, 2013, 01:57:54 AM
Also, what the hell is feminine music? Is this some sort of arcane lingo only musicians understand? I mean is Michelle's Theme in Onimusha 3 feminine? I do associate it with a feminine character, but I think it's because I was controlling a woman when it started playing.

Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on May 29, 2013, 02:12:48 AM
In my defense, I was mostly joking with that tweet. I even added a smiley at the end. 

 :'(

Bluuu...I've learned the hard way that sarcasm doesn't always translate to Twitter/internet. :P

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and not consider this a sexist statement (and I honestly hardly care whether it is or not), but I'd like to point out IGA has been called a male chauvinist because he had the audacity to remove Sonia from canon, because "a woman would not likely be a warrior in that era" or something along those lines. A canon - if I may add - which may or may not be gone completely by now.

If anyone feels the need to fight for portrayal of women in video games, do you think LoS is much of an improvement? Because I think it's worse. Marie is a woman in refrigerator, Claudia was this mute girl protected by a masculine metal beast that got sliced and diced and then there's Carmilla The Cleavage Priestess / Horny Evil Vampire.

Again, I don't care about that stuff, but all I'll say is that if IGA is sexist, the guys who did LoS must be humanoid pigs.

I don't remember what IGA said exactly, but it was something along the lines of "Well, a woman can't be a protagonist in these games." wasn't it? Of course, we're ignoring Sypha and who knows who else.

LoS just has women in more traditional gender roles. The men are men, the women are women. Video games have ALWAYS been like that, and probably always will. The DmC reboot does the same thing with Kat and Lillith where they're both captured and used as pawns. In LoS it didn't bother me, though in DmC it made me feel slightly dirty. xD

EDIT: I wish there was a way to see who gave your posts + and - rep on here. :P
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 29, 2013, 02:16:57 AM
I'd like a verified, completely accurate translation of that IGA statement before thinking one way or the other. It doesn't much matter to me even if he had an apple in his mouth while telling some woman to make him a sandwich, but that interview is so often referenced it makes a difference what he said precisely. It would be kind of weird if he said "a woman can't be a protagonist in these games", seeing as how much weight he gives to DC especially. That is why I'm inclined to believe he was talking about the era the game happened.

If he was really talking about the "protagonist", it would mean that Sypha faked being a male in the Famicom version too..? Because otherwise people knew fully well that Sypha was female. I thought it was mostly localization while in the Japanese version it's more obvious she is a woman . It's kind of silly in retrospect anyway, unless Sypha/Syfa is a gender neutral name.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Nagumo on May 29, 2013, 02:45:08 AM
Hmmm, I've hold off from saying this but is anyone else also bothered by the rather... lustful depiction of women in the LoSverse? You know, aside from Marie and Claudia, you have the Dark Crystal Demon, Carmilla, Spirit of Belnades, the Witches, about 90% of all woman characters in the games, who are either nude or have super revealing outfits.   

Now don't get me wrong, this is not necessarily a bad thing, if it's done tastefully, and if it's not exclusively directed at one gender.  :P With the previous games it was balanced out a bit more because of Kojima and her artwork, and usually most of the fanservice was provided by the Succubus, which is the entire point of that character. However, it seems they have no self control at MS, and absolutely have to slip in nudity somewhere when designing a female character. It just comes off as a bit silly and childish.

Am I the only one with that sentiment?

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and not consider this a sexist statement (and I honestly hardly care whether it is or not), but I'd like to point out IGA has been called a male chauvinist because he had the audacity to remove Sonia from canon, because "a woman would not likely be a warrior in that era" or something along those lines. A canon - if I may add - which may or may not be gone completely by now.

I think he said it was difficult coming up with a female protagonist in a vampire story, period. Honestly, that attitude is the only thing that disappoints me about IGA. I always groan a bit when people defend that statement.     
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on May 29, 2013, 03:01:05 AM
MS made those women that way as a method to justify their M rating.

As for the music, I prefer Yamane's Japanese VG music over Araujo. And I don't think there is a male/female music style.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 29, 2013, 03:25:56 AM
I like a lot of Yamane's work, but I can also do fine without her. Like I can do fine without Kojima (Ayami).

Yamane's music is superior to Araujo's, but she's been around continously for a long time and even her work has gotten a bit formulaic. If she returns, she would have to try something different. But if she won't, that might be for the better. New blood isn't always bad and over the years, there have been so many great works of CV music that aren't by Yamane.

Kojima has done some great works, but she's also done Pinhead Hector and Rubberneck Annette. Her character poses can get generic, as can the facial features. Pretty boys in snappy clothes  are not essential to my Castlevania experience. The art of LoS is actually one of the things that I do like about it. Also, Masaki Hirooka. In other words; she isn't essential to my Castlevania experience either.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Successor The Cruel on May 29, 2013, 03:54:24 AM
Um... IGA produced a game with a female protagonist, who was handled very respectably, and given considerably more depth than Sonia or Carrie (who I feel plays second fiddle to Reinhardt anyway), so... um, make of that what you will, I guess?

I also feel that he did certain things to make the games generally more appealing to females than they were. I don't want to make sweeping blanket statements or act like my singular experience is the strong determining factor, but when I typically run into female fans of Castlevania, both here and other places, from what I'm able to discern they tend to be more fans of his games than any of the others. There are, of course, exceptions to that, but I wouldn't be surprised if other people had similar experiences.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Maedhros on May 29, 2013, 05:16:06 AM
Other than the grab button, the combat is straight out of LoI. Gabriel and Leon have a lot of the same moves too.

I'm not saying the game should be immune from critics, I'm saying that you should expect anything classified as a reboot to be a good deal of a departure from what came before. That's why it's a reboot and not a sequel. RE: "shitty modern gameplay" Are you typing this on a typewriter? I don't think there's anything wrong with LoS' take on modern gameplay. It's well paced, challenging, and fun imo.

*I* loved the old games, and LoS is the best Castlevania imo since Dracula X Chronicles. Honestly, I've always felt like a some of the older games got a bad rap by people who came on with SoTN or the Castleroids, and didn't give the games i loved the most a chance. So I guess it depends on your perspective.

Sure, but when what you want isn't being made anymore, you still have the older games to go back to. It's why people still listen to old music. I get it, and I understand (it's partially why DXC is my favorite CV game) but you either stick with the old or get with the new.

That's silly though. What kind of claim IS that? How would they do that, and why would anyone believe that it was going to be like that? One thing i've learned is that when they liken any new game to an old game, it's usually bullshit and they're just using it to suck people in.

If you don't like it, you don't like it. That's one thing. But people act like MS/Konami have offended them personally by releasing something that isn't exactly like what's come before. I'm not shocked or surprised, it's the internet, land of hyperbole.

I thought there was a good amount of shimmying/grappling. It was nice to have some actual platforming, and the scale on which it occurred was interesting and gave the environments a good sense of size. You can experience how huge the castle is by grappling and moving around it rather than that info coming only in the form of a shot of the outside. They show you rather than tell you. Same with the 64 games.

As far as the combat goes, like I said above, it's totally reminiscent of LoI other than the grab button and the magic meters. Gabe and Leon have some of the same moves, and the layout is the same. The camera angle is different too in LoS, it's more like CoD's, which may account for any other differences you notice. I'm not saying it's NOTHING like GoW, but again, it's plenty influenced by LoI.
Except it's not, FOR ME. Like I've said, it's totally feels like I'm playing God of War. It doesn't really matters if it it haves some different moves, that's LoS trying to bring something to add it's own flavor, the characters still feels and plays like Kratos for me. Leon on the other hand was almost like a dancer, it reminds me a lot of DmC.

The second point is a bit stupid. It's impossible to completely separate your previous game experience from the new one. It HAS the name Castlevania attached to it, so it's a given that people will compare it to their previous experiences, at some point of the game. Like Crisis said, it relied on nostalgia on the PR, they said it would be like SCIV. It feels like NOTHING I've played in any Castlevania before, period (the only elements I can somewhat see from SCIV are the stages and whip swinging, even though it's automatic like in God of War).

Even when I approached the game from a perspective of an action game, it didn't do nothing for me. The name Castlevania, for me, is attached to exploration and action platforming. LoS is a pure ACTION game. The elements of "platforming" that are on the game are fucking terrible, I didn't liked that in GoW or Uncharted or other moderns games who uses it, why would I be liking them here? I also don't like the stylish combat approach.

I'm not saying that the game should be like the older entries, AT ALL. I simply didn't like what it did, just like I didn't like LoI, CoD, CV64 and other entries of the series.

@MontoyaGraphics

I never said I represent shit. BTW, I'm not a fan of IGA, I like both older and IGA Castlevanias.
I also never said that people should agree with me, at all. But I know that many, many people agree, look at discussions on other forums like NeoGAF, on the IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku, etc comentaries session, on the Castlevania Facebook. There's always people saying that they dislike LoS. Of course, many of these just want IGAvanias to be made forever. While I don't agree with that (since I want innovation brought to the series just as much as any sane fan would want), it doesn't mean that their comments are invalid.

BTW, aren't you the guy who only likes the classicvanias? Must be sad for you, as I enjoyed pretty much every Castlevania out there (except the 3D entries).

Hmmm, I've hold off from saying this but is anyone else also bothered by the rather... lustful depiction of women in the LoSverse? You know, aside from Marie and Claudia, you have the Dark Crystal Demon, Carmilla, Spirit of Belnades, the Witches, about 90% of all woman characters in the games, who are either nude or have super revealing outfits.   

Now don't get me wrong, this is not necessarily a bad thing, if it's done tastefully, and if it's not exclusively directed at one gender.  :P With the previous games it was balanced out a bit more because of Kojima and her artwork, and usually most of the fanservice was provided by the Succubus, which is the entire point of that character. However, it seems they have no self control at MS, and absolutely have to slip in nudity somewhere when designing a female character. It just comes off as a bit silly and childish.

Am I the only one with that sentiment?   
Probably.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 29, 2013, 05:42:42 AM
Dark Crystal Demon? You mean that woman-looking thing that appears when you use the crystal?

Bit of a reach, isn't it? That's just some female creature. Sure, there are the bare breasts (why would a critter like that wear a bra..?), but I don't get much Come-here-big-boy vibes from it. Just like Succubus is a soul-sucking demon, not a woman. And just like you could see the wolfman's dong before they thought it was not suitable. You can still see those statue peckers in SotN teleport rooms. I think that never changed in either the DXC version or the XBLA/PSN version.

And I really don't see it as a recurring theme. If there has been "lustfulness", it has been rather tame or cheeky. Like those enemies in PoR that try to ride Jonathan, but call Charlotte a "filthy cow". Or those enemies in OoE that call Shanoa "cute little kitty". But again, critters, not people. And overall, veery tame compared to lots of other games.

That is, if we ignore the colossal, loud and flatulent elephant in the room. You know what I'm talking about. That thing that had a pre-teen Maria envious of breasts. Whatever we think of its sexual themes, I think we can agree that most of us wish that game never happened. But I don't think that game primarily painted women as lustful. It simply stabbled Castlevania by systematically picking characters to degrade. The only one who walked away virtually unharmed was The Big D.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Nagumo on May 29, 2013, 06:05:41 AM
Probably.

You /=/ everybody

I don't think it's that unreasonable, so I'm not sure what the snide remark was about.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Maedhros on May 29, 2013, 06:07:09 AM
You /=/ everybody
I never implied I was.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Nagumo on May 29, 2013, 06:09:18 AM
Then how do you know ?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on May 29, 2013, 06:43:06 AM
I'm glad it made you laugh. Because it was a joke.

I have never presumed anything about the social lives of any of the other members of this forum. It would seem hypocritical for me to make such a comment when I am on this forum myself, don't you think Jorge? Again, I was making a joke about when I was a young teenager. Multitasking is indeed the skill of an adult, being a parent, a student, and a full time union carpenter, I can attest to that. I have to trade sleep for every moment I get to work on compositions, or sprites.

My comment was lighthearted and in a good humor, which of course got blown way out of proportion. If you would prefer every debate over Mercury Steam and IGA to be hot headed and strictly partisan, then I can stay out of them. I was simply trying to lighten the mood.



Your comedic skills need work.
It is difficult to tell what is meant to be a joke and what was troll-like statement.

I appreciate you clarifying, however.



Bluuu...I've learned the hard way that sarcasm doesn't always translate to Twitter/internet. :P


Indeed, what comes off as sarcasm or humor to one, comes off as jerkass to another.  Just a matter of who is the member and who is the mod.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on May 29, 2013, 08:14:45 AM
Lighten up Freak  :rollseyes:. That was meant as a joke, however true. Asinine... Yes. But hey, I was a young teenage boy in those years. I still played every CV game and collected them all. But the last place you would have found me in those times would have been a forum. But I did frequent the CV Dungeon site in those days. Mostly just to read about games and look at fan fiction and art. I've always loved the fan made stuff, even back then.

Point is, I've been visiting this site for many years. I just didn't engage in the forum until a few years ago when I started creating my own fan fiction.

I thought this clarified it sufficiently Jorge.

@Maedhros. I'm the guy who loves Classicvanias. I'm also the guy who says IGA made some really great games. I"ve said time and time again that I love SOTN, LOI, and Dawn of Sorrow. OOE is pretty good too. All I've said is that he made too many games that stuck to the same formula, and it became, well... too formulaic. Even the games I think are ones that could have been skipped are still good games.  That's all. And I actually like all of the 3D Castlevanias except for Curse of Darkness, which feels more like a Pokemon game or something. I guess you can consider Judgement a 3d Vania. I think that game is terrible just in general.

I think there's actually a lot we agree on Maedhros. I understand if LOS isn't your bag. I just think this game gets unfairly scrutinized. But hey, it really doesn't matter Maedhros. You love Castlevania, and so do I. If we disagree on one game that doesn't mean we don't agree on others. I think it's cool that your passionate about it.

Just wanted to let you know that while I disagree on LOS, you say a lot of things that I really agree with.

Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on May 29, 2013, 05:48:20 PM
Except it's not, FOR ME. Like I've said, it's totally feels like I'm playing God of War. It doesn't really matters if it it haves some different moves, that's LoS trying to bring something to add it's own flavor, the characters still feels and plays like Kratos for me. Leon on the other hand was almost like a dancer, it reminds me a lot of DmC.

The second point is a bit stupid. It's impossible to completely separate your previous game experience from the new one. It HAS the name Castlevania attached to it, so it's a given that people will compare it to their previous experiences, at some point of the game. Like Crisis said, it relied on nostalgia on the PR, they said it would be like SCIV. It feels like NOTHING I've played in any Castlevania before, period (the only elements I can somewhat see from SCIV are the stages and whip swinging, even though it's automatic like in God of War).

Even when I approached the game from a perspective of an action game, it didn't do nothing for me. The name Castlevania, for me, is attached to exploration and action platforming. LoS is a pure ACTION game. The elements of "platforming" that are on the game are fucking terrible, I didn't liked that in GoW or Uncharted or other moderns games who uses it, why would I be liking them here? I also don't like the stylish combat approach.

I'm not saying that the game should be like the older entries, AT ALL. I simply didn't like what it did, just like I didn't like LoI, CoD, CV64 and other entries of the series.

My point in bringing up the combat in LoI was to say that the influence on LoS' combat didn't come out of left field. The system of combos and such, the button layout, etc, are similar. Sure there are GoW influences, no one's saying there aren't. But the combat engine itself is very similar to what was used in LoI. That's the point I was trying to make.

I also wasn't saying that LoS should be completely separated from the previous games, and it's not if you know the influences. But like I said, it WAS classified as a reboot, so obviously it's going to be quite a bit different from its predecessors, regardless of what kinds of name-checking they do of previous games/characters. The reason it doesn't feel like anything you've played in Castlevania before is because it plays quite a bit like the previous 3D installments in many ways. Games you admittedly don't like and probably haven't spent much time on, which is why I imagine a lot of the elements of LoS seem alien to you.

It sounds to me like you don't really like 3D action games, and that's fine. But it would be like me going in and saying how terrible I think Final Fantasy games are when I'm not really all that into RPGs. In my mind, LoS is the best 3D 'vania we've gotten to date, and the 64 games are among my favorite games of all time. Is LoS the most original game ever created? No. But they did a good job of taking elements used in previous CV games and melding them with new and different influences, which is exactly what Symphony did, and exactly what LoI did.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: uzo on May 29, 2013, 08:18:14 PM
Am I the only one with that sentiment?

Absolutely not. I actually prefer the more elegant look that Kojima brought to the series, as it struck an interesting balance, and at least for SotN the game didn't compromise any gothic appeal with it's in game art. This cannot be said as much for the GBA entries and certainly the DS entries were even worse in this aspect.

On the other hand, Mercurysteam felt that Castlevania wasn't dudebro enough, so they need to add in protagonists with HULKING MUSCLES and lots of enemies with BOOBS. THE MORE THE BETTER. Cause those are direct indicators of how MATURE a game is, bro. And GENERIC MATURE DUDEBRO games are totally better than anything wussy and girly like those stupid other games. Right, bro?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: jestercolony on May 29, 2013, 08:48:30 PM
On the other hand, Mercurysteam felt that Castlevania wasn't dudebro enough, so they need to add in protagonists with HULKING MUSCLES and lots of enemies with BOOBS. THE MORE THE BETTER. Cause those are direct indicators of how MATURE a game is, bro. And GENERIC MATURE DUDEBRO games are totally better than anything wussy and girly like those stupid other games. Right, bro?

...And yet you forget about the artwork from the old 80s early 90s titles ;) js....
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Abnormal Freak on May 29, 2013, 09:11:11 PM
On the other hand, Mercurysteam felt that Castlevania wasn't dudebro enough, so they need to add in protagonists with HULKING MUSCLES and lots of enemies with BOOBS. THE MORE THE BETTER. Cause those are direct indicators of how MATURE a game is, bro. And GENERIC MATURE DUDEBRO games are totally better than anything wussy and girly like those stupid other games. Right, bro?

bro 8)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on May 29, 2013, 09:32:14 PM
I would like to see an actual game called SUPER DUDEBROS where you play as DUDEBRO and it's totally geared towards the more mature audience.

This sounds like a home run formula to me bra!
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: jestercolony on May 29, 2013, 09:39:03 PM
bump
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Abnormal Freak on May 29, 2013, 09:42:55 PM
I would like to see an actual game called SUPER DUDEBROS where you play as DUDEBRO and it's totally geared towards the more mature audience.

This sounds like a home run formula to me bra!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudebro:_My_Shit_Is_Fucked_Up_So_I_Got_to_Shoot/Slice_You_II:_It%27s_Straight-Up_Dawg_Time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudebro:_My_Shit_Is_Fucked_Up_So_I_Got_to_Shoot/Slice_You_II:_It%27s_Straight-Up_Dawg_Time)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Briraka on May 29, 2013, 09:45:42 PM
bump
God bless you.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on May 29, 2013, 10:00:16 PM
Hahaha! I'm so happy that really exists!
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Abnormal Freak on May 29, 2013, 10:03:41 PM
It's been plenty of years in the making, so here's hoping that (a) it's out soon, and that (b) it'll be good.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 29, 2013, 10:09:57 PM
@Nagumo: I'm with you. I don't have any problem with hot women, but I just don't like it when they are kept in the background like some secondary character.
And by the way, LoS women aren't even pretty. None of them. And that wasn't the case in previous games, even not-IGA games.

I didn't like it when IGA removed Sonia from the canon, I think it's the worst thing he did (the only one I didn't like, by the way). IGA himself proved wrong that statement, when Charlotte and Shanoa were female protagonists in vampire stories.

And music being feminine, I guess he meant delicate, and I'm sorry but I don't find Araujo's music delicate, the action cues are unbearable to me, and the rest (soft tracks) are just plain boring (in my opinion).
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 29, 2013, 10:51:55 PM
About Yamane's music being "feminine", I don't really know what is defined as "feminine" music...
Castlevania: Curse of Darkness OST:Belmont The Legend (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz8DH30l2_E#)
But I sure as hell wouldn't be caught dead calling that (along with quite a few of CoD's tracks) "feminine".
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 30, 2013, 12:10:26 AM
On the other hand, Mercurysteam felt that Castlevania wasn't dudebro enough, so they need to add in protagonists with HULKING MUSCLES and lots of enemies with BOOBS. THE MORE THE BETTER. Cause those are direct indicators of how MATURE a game is, bro. And GENERIC MATURE DUDEBRO games are totally better than anything wussy and girly like those stupid other games. Right, bro?


Sup, brah?

(http://images.wikia.com/castlevania/images/4/48/Castlevania_I_Wallpaper.jpg)

(http://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000006107032-l2n152-crop.jpg?c831450)

(http://images.wikia.com/castlevania/images/f/f4/Artbook20.jpg)

(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/ultimeciaffb_2/z%20Castlevania%20X%20previews/sbb4_000346c0-Carmilla.png)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on May 30, 2013, 01:07:13 AM
Whoa why you cut off succu-boobs?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: uzo on May 30, 2013, 01:18:41 AM
@Flame: The fact that you had to pull those examples from multiple games proves my point. Also Gabriel has abnormal body proportions beyond those examples you posted.

@Shiroi Koumori: The succubus art was censored for the US release of SotN. That is the version he posted.

@Pfil: To clarify, IGA said that female protagonists in the series were hard to justify historically, more so as the games get chronologically older. This matches up with Shanoa and Charlotte being heroes in games that are much later in the timeline.

Also Legends has fundamental conflicts with many titles that came before it. The game was most likely removed from the timeline due to those many dates, events, and character ages that do not match the other games before it, not because Sonia was a female protagonist.

For the record, I don't think that in a fantasy series like this it is hard to justify a female protagonist at all. Most of the super powers are not gender specific (high spirituality, vampirism, etc) so it is completely valid that a female character could have been the one to have acquired them. If we can explain away things with "Dracula's Magic" then we certainly disregard historical sociological norms just as easily, if not more easily.

Despite this though, I don't particularly believe IGA is sexist. If that were true, we'd never see Shanoa and Charlotte see the light of day ever. On top of that, it does make an amount of sense that the focus is on the male heirs of a bloodline, the ones who pass the genetics, in a series concentrating on the lineage of a family. As a third caveat, we also know some developers are told by management that they CANNOT make a game with a female protagonist period. It could have been something out of IGA's hands entirely for quite some time.

All speculation of course. Take it for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on May 30, 2013, 01:26:52 AM
Charlotte was actually the better character in PoR. After her spell damage is considered, if you outfitted her with the right gear, she was just about as powerful as Johnathan in the attack and defense categories.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Neobelmont on May 30, 2013, 01:56:45 AM
What the  heck have I missed -_- ?

Way too busy with school and finals.

Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Abnormal Freak on May 30, 2013, 03:42:03 AM
I'm rather glad IGA retconned Legends because Sonia bangin' Alucard and that's why Belmonts are so strong... 'Kay. It was a trite story to begin with and Sonia is perhaps even more a ripoff of Doris Lang than Alucard is of D.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on May 30, 2013, 05:42:18 AM
^
I disagree with the above statement.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Successor The Cruel on May 30, 2013, 07:09:14 AM
And by the way, LoS women aren't even pretty. None of them. And that wasn't the case in previous games, even not-IGA games

Agreed on this point.

Also, not much love for Sonia Belmont from me. Yeah, it's nice she's a girl and all, but the concept... even the suggestion of Belmonts being related to Dracula, or BEING Dracula is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARF! I know IGA didn't state that as his reason for retconning Legends, at least I don't think he did, but that is more than enough reason in my opinion to justify doing that.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 30, 2013, 07:32:26 AM
I just think it's impossible to try and tie in any females to the bloodline. Suppose each game explained the origin of the protagonist; the repetitiveness would bore some. It's best I feel to just know that that's a grandson or great great great grandson. Now if it were done in reverse and let's say Julius was a female ( his sister maybe) then tying them together probably would seem more organized
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Weiss Belmont on May 30, 2013, 07:36:49 AM
I'm rather glad IGA retconned Legends because Sonia bangin' Alucard and that's why Belmonts are so strong... 'Kay. It was a trite story to begin with and Sonia is perhaps even more a ripoff of Doris Lang than Alucard is of D.

You're full of shit Abnormal Freak. So full of shit that even Jorge disagrees with you. :rollseyes: Let that sink in a minute. The people riding the shortbus do believe that Castlevania ripped off VHD with regards to Alucard being a half-breed angle. Some of the same idiots claim Castlevania ripped off Hellsing nevermind the fact that Castlevania's Alucard appeared more than a decade prior to Hellsing's conception. Getting back to the point, D was not, in any way shape or form, a unique creation of Hideyuki Kikuchi. He built Vampire Hunter D on established myths, folktales, and legends from western culture.

Sonia Belmont and Alucard banging, thus giving the Belmont offspring their legendary strength, isn't anymore contrived than the Belmont clan being descendants of Dracula in the LoS continuum.

If you had an actual, real, issue with Castlevania canon or the lack there of then express it. But you, like many of these other braindead Castlevania fans either bitch all day about Cox or bitch all day about Igarashi. You don't have a single individual thought in your head or anything that drives you to independent action. All you are is a fucking parasite following the rest.

Thank the old gods for Jorge and thank the new gods for me.

And before one of you idiots bitch about how I'm a hater: 1) STFU and 2) I'm a huge fan of VHD. It was one of the first anime I had ever seen and I have nearly every novel released in the states so far. But unlike Freak I'm actually smart enough to know that VHD was not a unique IP on behalf of Kikuchi.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 30, 2013, 07:40:32 AM
Wow man way to take shots at someone via forum. Not cool man
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Weiss Belmont on May 30, 2013, 07:41:11 AM
Wow man way to take shots at someone via forum. Not cool man

Shouldn't you be making another crappy Hokuto No Ken game.  :-\
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 30, 2013, 07:48:10 AM
I do have ideas for a game but that's not my field of expertise. I have never posted once about the games for the simple fact they aren't my genre of choice. (I do own both of the newer installments as well as some of the rarer old titles however). I was defending an offline user when u threw the word faggot in their direction. I have never met anyone from this forum on the outside. But since I do enjoy it here I feel like the last thing a forum needs is that one person that shows up just to be 95% disagreeable to others' post. With so much anger u seem to have welled up inside u, I suggest finding a new outlet to vent your frustration. And by no means do I care what is said after this. I will however continue to express my opinions as open-minded and not be derogatory if possible.  :)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 30, 2013, 07:56:40 AM
Concerning the Belmont-relation-lineage-Sonia-retcon stuff:

At first I wasn't really a fan of the idea of the Belmonts having vampiric origins. It took away from the whole "Holy warrior(s) battling the worst of evil," so corrupting them with Vampirism was a bad idea in my mind and sullied the "tradition." Also, the fact that Legends plays out like the typical 90s anime of "forbidden love," and I know the game doesn't outright say that, but it alludes or subtly implies that Alucard and Sonia had a brief "fling" before she goes on to fight Dracula, thus resulting in Trevor and the Belmont's apparent superhuman capabilities.

Now with LoS, all the Belmonts are essentially "Alucards" that must defeat their great-great grandad because of their lineage. Dracula even says, referring to Simon, that "He is a Belmont. I cannot allow that bloodline to suffer any longer!" This struck me a certain way, because it shows Dracula/Gabriel might still have some remorse left in him. It's the "tragic irony, or poetic justice" scenario that's got me intruiged, which lead me to kinda understand Legends' approach despite all it's other flaws, and to understand those fans' reasoning for accepting that particular origin tale. Don't get me wrong, I also like the LoI origin for the "blood feud;" the idea of "Dracula in a prior life was comrades with a Belmont before things went sour" approach. I've learned to accept both origin tales, as it offers variety to the Castlevania brand. There are people that like "Elseworlds" stories; alternate beginnings/ideas to pre-established characters. Those familiar with comic books know exactly how this works. For instance, people may know Galactus as an ageless devourer of worlds. In a certain Elseworlds take, he became a RESTORER of destroyed worlds. It's just a different take, some find it interesting, others don't. But that's why we need variety, so people can discuss, compare and contrast the similarities and differences. This is what brings out some good discussions (so long as they don't turn into childish "THAT SOUNDS STUPID THERE'S ONLY 1 WAY TO DO IT ALL THE OTHERS SUCK" debates). Many people contribute ideas to three Castlevania brand, and as such, we should expect these varying origins. We don't have to always like what they come up with, but we don't always have to needlessly hate it either. Some may come off as more "fan-fictiony" than others, but it just is what it is

Perhaps the next "alternate" take would just use the original historical Vlad and have a disillusioned Belmont general from his royal guard betray him, and go on from there. Or make another "amalgam" Dracula like what MS did with Gabriel (Leon+Mathias=Gabriel, for those that are unaware).


Too Long;Didn't Read version: Variety is the spice of life. That's just my 2 cents. prunyuu~
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Nagumo on May 30, 2013, 08:05:03 AM
If you guys have a problem with the Belmonts being descandants of Dracula, then you must really hate the CVIV guidebook that says Simon and all the other Belmonts are Dhampirs. :-\
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 30, 2013, 08:19:07 AM
I'll have to agree with those who are saying that you're being out of line. Having a strong opinion is one thing, being crude, rude, and completely immature about it is another. Suck a dick? Get AIDS? I'm starting to question your mental maturity here.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Neobelmont on May 30, 2013, 08:30:21 AM
So why are you running your mouth on a forum about a game?



So why are you running your mouth on a forum about a game?



I edited that out for something fresh. Thanks for being out of date. You really are like Kenshiro.


Wow, amazing. Nor have I.  :-\



If 95% of the people on this forum weren't idiots maybe I wouldn't be so disagreeable. Let me give you a wake up call since you've been living under your mother's skirt your entire life. Unlike the members here, people, i.e. human beings tend to have something called "free will." This extends to independent thought and action. If someone says something I don't agree with, then by logic I disagree with them you fucking idiot. When someone gets a rare revelation or are blessed with enlightened thought or deed you might find that there are people on this forum I do agree with. Unfortunately, the vast majority (not all) of members on this forum are composed of illogical dipshits who talk shit all day about Cox, or Igarashi, or post their ridiculous fanfic ideas about LOS2.

I suggest you suck a dick. Preferably Freaks.


Get AIDS.

WTH man? What's got you in the mood ?






I question what makes you believe I care about your opinion. You're on the internet. You're irrelevant.





You  know for  a name that sounds like "wise" your being really dumb .  :P




Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 30, 2013, 08:35:24 AM
I question what makes you believe I care about your opinion. You're on the internet. You're irrelevant.
Well you should care as the Golden Rule here is "don't be an ass". As far as I'm concerned, you've already broken that, so you might want to behave unless you want Jorge to give you a warning, and eventually a ban.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 30, 2013, 08:41:00 AM
The man is a typing contradiction. Doesn't think we are relevant yet replies to post. That's laughable in its own regard.  ;D
 
I think CV wants to have misses in the timeline. If you think about it, I don't recall the some games to be narrated by the actual person doing the deed. So maybe there are certain things purposefully left out to keep fans guessing
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 30, 2013, 08:45:05 AM
Yeah because a ban would be so detrimental.  :'( Only idiots like you are kept in line by something so juvenille.
2) A ban can be subverted with a different account or proxy.

3) Even IP bans can be subverted so there is no real way to stop me.
Wow, just wow. You've stated outright here that you will attempt to evade bans. That's like saying that you will rob someone right in a cop's face. That's unbelievably stupid.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Weiss Belmont on May 30, 2013, 08:50:44 AM
Wow, just wow. You've stated outright here that you will attempt to evade bans. That's like saying that you will rob someone right in a cop's face. That's unbelievably stupid.

I just want to be clear on a few things.

1) I didn't say I'd evade a ban. I explained that I could if I felt so inclined to illustrate that while Jorge can keep you all in line I am not bound by his rules.

2) I decided what I can and I cannot do because I am the only authority I recognize.

3) Difference is cops actually have power backed up by a system that means something. With all due respect to Jorge, well, he's a mod on the internet.

No offense Jorge.  :-\ But by all means if you'd like to try it please do. I'll give it about five or six days, maybe a week and then log in with a different account. Your call though. It's actually my call but you have my permission to pull the trigger if you feel it will keep the flock under control.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Neobelmont on May 30, 2013, 08:59:24 AM

Actually, Weiss does not sound like wise. It's a German word that means white which is pronounced "VICE."

VICE and WISE do not sound even remotely similar.

VISE and WISE on the other hand is another matter entirely. But my username is not VISE is it?

You're kinda retarded.

heh... Learn a little more but it is kind of embarrassing when I am german my self(and a bunch of other things)  but hey you got me but I should have typed looks instead of sounds :P

Yet I've been called worse so try a little hard please  ;)

Like if I am a retard then you are a super alpha omega albino subterranean buttnoid  but whatever.  :rollseyes:
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 30, 2013, 09:09:35 AM
I just want to be clear on a few things.

1) I didn't say I'd evade a ban. I explained that I could if I felt so inclined to illustrate that while Jorge can keep you all in line I am not bound by his rules.

2) I decided what I can and I cannot do because I am the only authority I recognize.

3) Difference is cops actually have power backed up by a system that means something. With all due respect to Jorge, well, he's a mod on the internet.

No offense Jorge.  :-\ But by all means if you'd like to try it please do. I'll give it about five or six days, maybe a week and then log in with a different account. Your call though. It's actually my call but you have my permission to pull the trigger if you feel it will keep the flock under control.
Yeah, I think it's already too late to say "with all due respect" and "no offense".
Anyway, when you join a community you are expected to act by their rules and regulations. If you can't do so then you can always find another community where you might feel more at home.

Really? I don't see a swastiska.  :-\
And here you go doing the whole German = Nazi thing. I know you might be joking, but at this point you're just digging yourself deeper.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Neobelmont on May 30, 2013, 09:12:14 AM
Really? I don't see a swastiska.  :-\

 :P Guy has jokes 

But a swastiska? Kind of boring It's not like I have not been called a Nazi before try again.  But I know it's no use to try and talk to you.   :P
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 30, 2013, 09:16:42 AM
Whenever u are ready to play some more of Capcom's Super Street Fighter IV (on topic) feel free to send a request whenever I'm online
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on May 30, 2013, 09:16:50 AM
I just want to be clear on a few things.

1) I didn't say I'd evade a ban. I explained that I could if I felt so inclined to illustrate that while Jorge can keep you all in line I am not bound by his rules.

2) I decided what I can and I cannot do because I am the only authority I recognize.

3) Difference is cops actually have power backed up by a system that means something. With all due respect to Jorge, well, he's a mod on the internet.

No offense Jorge.  :-\ But by all means if you'd like to try it please do. I'll give it about five or six days, maybe a week and then log in with a different account. Your call though. It's actually my call but you have my permission to pull the trigger if you feel it will keep the flock under control.

Okay.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 30, 2013, 09:19:31 AM
@Flame: The fact that you had to pull those examples from multiple games proves my point. Also Gabriel has abnormal body proportions beyond those examples you posted.
Point still stands. You talk as if MS invented this notion of muscles and tits in Castlevania, when theyve been around all along. Belmonts used to be barbarians, and IGA's games were FULL of "sexy female monsters"

Gabriel was pretty built though.

But then again...

(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090328083106/castlevania/images/thumb/b/be/John_Morris_from_GamePro.JPG/504px-John_Morris_from_GamePro.JPG)

John Morris was built like a fucking truck.

Even his sprite is Ford Tough.


Quote
@Shiroi Koumori: The succubus art was censored for the US release of SotN. That is the version he posted.
wasnt gonna post nude tits >_> Carmilla gets a pass because her model has literally, no nipples or vagina.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Neobelmont on May 30, 2013, 09:23:00 AM
Whenever u are ready to play some more of Capcom's Super Street Fighter IV (on topic) feel free to send a request whenever I'm online

Yeah but I got to get into the mode you'll kick my butt again if I'm not at my best   :P

Anyways please tell me you got Persona 4 arena? Sorry for sounding like a broken record  ;D
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 30, 2013, 09:29:06 AM
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130427122541/yogscast/images/5/56/Well_that_escalated_quickly.jpg)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on May 30, 2013, 09:52:15 AM
"And nothing of value was lost!" - The Critic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbIMLz4ei7Q#)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 30, 2013, 09:53:31 AM
Well not yet. Ill check tomorrow for sure at GameStop. Just gonna own in some HoDes till then
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 30, 2013, 10:02:19 AM
I didn't like it when IGA removed Sonia from the canon, I think it's the worst thing he did (the only one I didn't like, by the way). IGA himself proved wrong that statement, when Charlotte and Shanoa were female protagonists in vampire stories.

Maybe he retconned a game instead of a character. Sonia just happened to be in it.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: X on May 30, 2013, 10:14:59 AM
Quote
On top of that, it does make an amount of sense that the focus is on the male heirs of a bloodline, the ones who pass the genetics, in a series concentrating on the lineage of a family.

I have to disagree with this on the fact that it's not only men whom pass on genetics but also women. Remember 50/50. That's how we work. The human body consists of 42 chromosomes. A man's sperm has only 24; only half of the required genetic material necessary to create life. But in the end the woman has the greater role then the man does. Once a man knocks up a woman, that's it. His role has ended. But a woman must carry the developing fetus, give birth to the child and nurse the child till they're old enough. A man isn't required to do some of the things a woman does because he can't. It goes against what nature has intended for the species. The only reason why most would think otherwise is because we're all taught to believe that it's the man who's important while the woman isn't. It must be the man whom passes on his DNA to the next generation while the woman is just there to help make it possible. Wrong. That's all wrong. It is only through the patriarchal belief (heavily influenced by the church) that such a way of thinking has been allowed to proliferate throughout history with no real result of consequences for man's poor actions. I see absolutely nothing wrong with a woman Belmont lead because I'm not held back by the patriarchal system.

And in case some of you aren't aware of; All vertebrates and I do mean all, are inherently female. To make one male the developing fetus must receive hormones at the right developmental stage to make them male. This is a scientific fact. Look it up if you're skeptical.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 30, 2013, 10:32:10 AM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e2/Juniorposter.jpg)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on May 30, 2013, 10:56:42 AM
You're a little off base with that comment X. You made correct comments about genetics, but none of those facts have anything to do with this particular topic.

If you want to say that you disagree because of genetics, that's one thing. But I think anyone who has taken a physical anthropology class is aware that in most mammals, including humans; males are typically larger and more suited for physical tasks, such as hunting and defending. This is the way our roles evolved because the female who is pregnant or nursing is not suited to do the work of hunting and defending, this is typically the males job. They are equally important roles within a society and family. Obviously the lines between these roles have blurred significantly in these modern times and will most likely continue to blur.

There is nothing sexist about it, but in the days of hand to hand combat, it played a larger role. Nowadays a battlefield is more equal among sexes than it used to be because wars are fought at a distance with guns and explosives.

But all battles leading up to the 20th century were typically fought by males. Sure there are plenty of exceptions, and Castelvania is obviously a fictitious story. But I think that is what IGA was trying to say is the reason for seeing more male protagonists.

In response to another topic, Castlevania has had sexy women and strong male characters long before LOS. And I agree with Flame that LOS actually seemed to tone that down a bit. The anime style games feature male characters with more feminine features because that's part of the style of anime. They still do not lack the nude females and the boobs. And if you look, while the faces of characters like Alucard and Richter may appear more feminine, they are still by no means scrawny wimps. So while I think the DUDEBRO jokes are funny, this complaint should be absurd to anyone who has a pair of eyes. On top of that, vampires are monsters that radiate sex. The vampire uses sexual attraction to lure it's prey. It goes with the folklore. So this really should not even be worth mentioning.

Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: uzo on May 30, 2013, 11:03:33 AM
What I meant to say more is that we have a concept, now as well as back then, where the males carry on whats considered the main family, the true bloodline. Females marry off and create 'branch families'. If you're focusing on the Belmont clan, then you focus on the members who remain and pass on the name Belmont, and not get married off to branch families.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on May 30, 2013, 11:05:43 AM
That's a good point too, Uzo.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on May 30, 2013, 11:09:20 AM
This is kinda what I think happened to all the branch families... the Morrises, the Graves, the Lecardes, the Renards, the Schneiders, etc.
They lost the name but didn't really lose the bloodline's powers.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Successor The Cruel on May 30, 2013, 11:18:34 AM
In European feudalistic societies, the heir was usually the oldest male offspring, so it makes a lot of sense that the males would be the ones to inherit the vampire killer whip, and in turn are the ones we wind up playing as.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on May 30, 2013, 12:50:13 PM
Legends plays out like the typical 90s anime of "forbidden love,"Dracula even says, referring to Simon, that "He is a
One of the things I love about Legends...

Belmont. I cannot allow that bloodline to suffer any longer!" This struck me a certain way, because it shows Dracula/Gabriel might still have some remorse left in him. It's the "tragic irony, or poetic justice" scenario that's got me intruiged, which lead me to kinda understand Legends' approach despite all it's other flaws, and to understand those fans' reasoning for accepting that particular origin tale.
...and the thing I really liked about LoS timeline. Gabriel's tale is very moving.

prunyuu
funyaa!

@Pfil: To clarify, IGA said that female protagonists in the series were hard to justify historically, more so as the games get chronologically older.
The game was most likely removed from the timeline due to those many dates, events, and character ages that do not match the other games before it, not because Sonia was a female protagonist.
Some developers are told by management that they CANNOT make a game with a female protagonist period.
That makes more sense. Anyway, Legends is one of my favourite stories from the series, I love the fact that the Belmonts and Dracula could be related by blood.
And about the developers, I think that is stupid. Whay do they think? That girls don't play games?

Charlotte was actually the better character in PoR. After her spell damage is considered, if you outfitted her with the right gear, she was just about as powerful as Johnathan in the attack and defense categories.
I always said that Charlotte is my favourite 2D sprite-based gameplay, I could literally blow the castle away with her. I made her so powerful that I was able to beat the final boss in less than 30 seconds.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: The Silverlord on May 30, 2013, 02:06:05 PM
Mercurysteam felt that Castlevania wasn't dudebro enough, so they need to add in protagonists with HULKING MUSCLES and lots of enemies with BOOBS. THE MORE THE BETTER. Cause those are direct indicators of how MATURE a game is, bro.

You forgot Oscar's more 'masculine' score, casting Patrick Stewart as Zobek/narrator and those ball-breaking titan battles.  Much more mature, right? ;)

Tongue in cheek there, mate.

Themes and storyline are important contributors to this 'maturity' angle, let's include but also look beyond tits, muscles and gore, no? If we go superficially though, could you see Dracula's Curse or Super IV done in 3D with the likes of Mercurysteam's brilliant artwork?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: uzo on May 30, 2013, 02:34:57 PM
And about the developers, I think that is stupid. Whay do they think? That girls don't play games?

If you're interested in 'further reading' with that subject, this is a good place to start: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7044-The-Creepy-Cull-of-Female-Protagonists (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7044-The-Creepy-Cull-of-Female-Protagonists)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on May 30, 2013, 04:55:56 PM
@Nagumo: I'm with you. I don't have any problem with hot women, but I just don't like it when they are kept in the background like some secondary character.
And by the way, LoS women aren't even pretty. None of them. And that wasn't the case in previous games, even not-IGA games.

I didn't like it when IGA removed Sonia from the canon, I think it's the worst thing he did (the only one I didn't like, by the way). IGA himself proved wrong that statement, when Charlotte and Shanoa were female protagonists in vampire stories.


Does that really matter though? I mean, if there's a strong female character in the game, but she's unattractive, does that make her a worse character? As much as I love looking at beautiful women in-game and in real life, I'd rather a female character be unattractive yet interesting than the other way around. Lol maybe I'm just old, but....

I think if Legends hadn't been a shit game, it would have been harder to retcon. But as it is, it's a shit game with a questionable first cause story, so that made it a pretty easy target.

Uzo said pretty much what I would have as far as the genetics/last name thing goes.

I think if there was a strong, believable female lead, the community would probably get behind her. But we've never really had that in CV before. I mean, if we had someone like Trish in DMC who didn't have to compete with a male lead like Dante or Gabriel and it was made clear that she was the lead, then I think the community would probably support it.

That Escapist video Uzo posted was pretty interesting though. It's kind of sad really. I don't know about anyone else, but if I have the choice of looking at a hot female character for however many hours I'll be playing a game or a dude, I'll gladly take the former (my first character in Guilty Gear was Ino, partially for that reason. xD)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Neobelmont on May 30, 2013, 05:30:11 PM
You forgot Oscar's more 'masculine' score, casting Patrick Stewart as Zobek/narrator and those ball-breaking titan battles.  Much more mature, right? ;)

Tongue in cheek there, mate.

Themes and storyline are important contributors to this 'maturity' angle, let's include but also look beyond tits, muscles and gore, no? If we go superficially though, could you see Dracula's Curse or Super IV done in 3D with the likes of Mercurysteam's brilliant artwork?

I think what makes a mature storyline is the message  than pure  blood and boob. It seems easy to make something seem mature because of  a lot of blood but sometimes if you understand the message that is given then wow. Like the megami tensei series overall it's some dark satanic stuff and that's the reason why it gets an M rating (besides the penis monster  :P )  like in persona 2 a girls face melts off her or something because of a rumor .
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: X on May 30, 2013, 07:13:36 PM
Quote
You're a little off base with that comment X. You made correct comments about genetics, but none of those facts have anything to do with this particular topic.

If you want to say that you disagree because of genetics, that's one thing. But I think anyone who has taken a physical anthropology class is aware that in most mammals, including humans; males are typically larger and more suited for physical tasks, such as hunting and defending. This is the way our roles evolved because the female who is pregnant or nursing is not suited to do the work of hunting and defending, this is typically the males job. They are equally important roles within a society and family. Obviously the lines between these roles have blurred significantly in these modern times and will most likely continue to blur.

There is nothing sexist about it, but in the days of hand to hand combat, it played a larger role. Nowadays a battlefield is more equal among sexes than it used to be because wars are fought at a distance with guns and explosives.

But all battles leading up to the 20th century were typically fought by males. Sure there are plenty of exceptions, and Castelvania is obviously a fictitious story. But I think that is what IGA was trying to say is the reason for seeing more male protagonists.

While it's true that generally men are larger-looking then women, do not even think for a moment that that automatically constitutes a win (men), lose (women) situation. I'm sure you've heard the expression "Don't judge a book by it's cover". Throughout history there have been women who were equally as strong, powerful and influential as men. The Amazonian tribeswomen in Greek history is one such example. The women of Sparta are another as well as the Celtic tribes of old Europe. And lastly do not forget about a certain French Knight by the title 'Joan of Arc'. She was dressed in full plate mail, wielding a sword and shield, and literally cutting down the enemies of the French state (who were men I will add). The idea that a man is naturally stronger then a woman is thrown out the window when you take these facts into account. And IGA's argument that a woman warrior (Sonia) is not historically accurate for CV is mute as well, especially when Joan of Arc is taken into account. Castlevania is a series that is 'loosely' based in historical themes and it does not make any logical sense to not have a woman Belmont lead. And I'm sure that all the women on this site will vouch for that too. As for the woman taking on the man's name in order to continue the main line, i'll say it again; the patriarchal system. It's got nothing to do with truth or genetics, but has everything to do with what men think is correct. A main family line can be carried by women. It's simply a matter of perspective and all you have to do is reverse your way of thinking. It also helps to put away the ego as well in order to see past the end of one's nose.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Laina on May 30, 2013, 10:38:02 PM
One of the things I love about Legends...
...and the thing I really liked about LoS timeline. Gabriel's tale is very moving.
funyaa!
That makes more sense. Anyway, Legends is one of my favourite stories from the series, I love the fact that the Belmonts and Dracula could be related by blood.
And about the developers, I think that is stupid. Whay do they think? That girls don't play games?
I always said that Charlotte is my favourite 2D sprite-based gameplay, I could literally blow the castle away with her. I made her so powerful that I was able to beat the final boss in less than 30 seconds.

You and I are on the same wavelength, Pfil.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 30, 2013, 11:14:22 PM
I made her so powerful that I was able to beat the final boss in less than 30 seconds.
Care to back up that claim with videos and such?

Anyway, about the Legends debacle, was it ever outright stated that Alucard planted one in Sonia? All I could see were just implications. As for the disrepancies, I think they could be retconned without outright retconning the whole game itself, so I'd say it should be possible to rework the game back into canon.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Nagumo on May 31, 2013, 12:59:30 AM
^Yes, it's not outright said so, but it's implied in such a way that there is no way around it. 
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on May 31, 2013, 02:46:40 AM
White knight alert

Care to back up that claim with videos and such?

Anyway, about the Legends debacle, was it ever outright stated that Alucard planted one in Sonia? All I could see were just implications. As for the disrepancies, I think they could be retconned without outright retconning the whole game itself, so I'd say it should be possible to rework the game back into canon.

I did the same thing. I made the claim. Charlotte is the better character overall. Between the damage of her spells and the damage she can do with the righe weapons and the the damage she can sustain with the right armor, she's not just a tank but she can deal hella damage. I don't know PoR anymore but I'll download the ROM and put together a breakdown if you don't believe me and you can see for yourself.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on May 31, 2013, 08:58:39 AM
Huh, I suppose I never gave her enough chance since I thought her main source of damage being spells was somewhat slow.
Anyway, can I see what sort of build is needed for Killer Charlotte, and will it still be feasible in Hard Mode Lv. 1? I kinda chickened out and equipped Ancient Armor in the aforementioned mode.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 31, 2013, 09:10:55 AM
Anyway, about the Legends debacle, was it ever outright stated that Alucard planted one in Sonia? All I could see were just implications. As for the disrepancies, I think they could be retconned without outright retconning the whole game itself, so I'd say it should be possible to rework the game back into canon.

It could be done. But then they should change a lot of other things in the game too. Like the year it takes place.  And Sonia can't be the first Belmont. Otherwise LoI would have to be retconned.

I think they should just re-introduce Sonia in a different way. But that be more suitable for the next reboot. I'm personally not too fond of the whole romantic thing she had with Alucard nor the possibility of Belmonts being related to Dracula. It doesn't work much better in LoS.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on May 31, 2013, 09:52:48 AM
I think Charlotte is better as a partner to trigger spells. I use Johnathan well enough to just use her for all boost. Johnathan is far superior when it comes to damage output. Maxed beaks knives and Bang Nahk are my usual go to when I feel like hurrying up. Mix it up wit a couple uppercuts and knee strikes and ur golden!
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on May 31, 2013, 10:32:35 AM
And Sonia can't be the first Belmont. Otherwise LoI would have to be retconned.

That pretty much goes without saying.
Then again, in the late 80's people were almost sure that Trevor was 'the first Belmont'.  Sonia then was created.  Then Leon.  Now... Gabriel (though in another universe).
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Successor The Cruel on May 31, 2013, 01:09:40 PM
Eh... if I had the authority, I wouldn't bother even trying to bring back Sonia. While I'm sure that may appease her group of fans (maybe), gratifying them with that act is just not the best course of action for the series to take, in my opinion. "This is the character from the (very obscure) game who was retconned, but we're going to reinvent her, change her story, and put her in the main canon, because... I don't know!?"

I just feel the resources and energy to do that would be better spent on something else and it would also be a clumsy thing to do. Again, I think Shanoa is a really good character that any girl should be able to respect. I understand she's not a Belmont, but as some of us have been getting at, a female Belmont just doesn't work that smoothly. I don't want to seem close minded, but it needlessly presents some problems and makes things a bit clumsy.

Yes, it can be done, and yes we're talking about a fictitious universe, but what is she going to do? Pass the whip down to her nephew? It just doesn't have the same weight as passing it down from father to son, and it would make it seem like her own children are/would be slighted (which they would be). One would have to explain how that would work, and yes, it could be part of the story, but... eh... why? And if it's not explained, then some people (like us) would be left wondering how they worked all that out.

I don't have any problem with strong, warrior women lead characters (like Shanoa), but I do think that, while a female Belmont can be done, it presents some issues that complicate things and are the sort of issues we shouldn't even be thinking about.   
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on May 31, 2013, 01:36:26 PM
That pretty much goes without saying.
Then again, in the late 80's people were almost sure that Trevor was 'the first Belmont'.  Sonia then was created.  Then Leon.  Now... Gabriel (though in another universe).

I know. All the more reasons for the next "first Belmont" not be a retcon. There's been enough of that. It should be a clean slate, at a time there are no unfinished or multiple continuities.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on May 31, 2013, 02:13:19 PM
Sonia should've been included in Judgment, and it could've been explained as a loophole in the timeline
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on May 31, 2013, 03:17:46 PM
In the timeline I've crafted, there is a linchpin point around the events during that time, since Victor Belmont comes back from the future, thus creating another universe.



Eh... if I had the authority, I wouldn't bother even trying to bring back Sonia. While I'm sure that may appease her group of fans (maybe), gratifying them with that act is just not the best course of action for the series to take, in my opinion.


I am thankful... that you don't have the authority, then.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Successor The Cruel on May 31, 2013, 04:09:05 PM
Well, I'm thankful that whoever does have the authority is not doing it anyway, so same difference, I suppose : p
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: beingthehero on May 31, 2013, 04:27:57 PM
I just realized that CotM's composer, Sotaro Tojima, would've been pretty bummed by the last two CV's soundtracks.
Quote
Composer - Sotaro Tojima

Recently it seems that music in video games has become more ambient...when I composed the music of "Circle of the Moon ", I specifically concentrated more on their melody...this is my opposition against recent trends.

From here:
http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Media/cotmhod.html (http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Media/cotmhod.html)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on May 31, 2013, 04:35:42 PM
If there are any more "modern" era, (or close it modern) CV  games, I think that's a time more ripe for female protagonists.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on May 31, 2013, 06:39:58 PM
I just realized that CotM's composer, Sotaro Tojima, would've been pretty bummed by the last two CV's soundtracks.
From here:
http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Media/cotmhod.html (http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Media/cotmhod.html)
I tip my hat to him. There's nothing wrong with ambient music, but I still prefer really melody driving music.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: C Belmont on May 31, 2013, 07:16:44 PM
Quote
^Yes, it's not outright said so, but it's implied in such a way that there is no way around it.

There are other ways around it
The conversation  between Alucard & Sonia contains a good deal of talk about decisions and lessons so I don’t think it would be completely farfetched to speculate  that Sonia may only have seen  Alucard as a surrogate brother, mentor or father.

Also
I noticed the translation for the Japanese Manual on MrP's Castlevania Realm seems to say that Sonia was looking for her father when she met Alucard while the English manual says Alucard was looking for his father when he met Sonia does anyone know which one is correct?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Koutei on May 31, 2013, 07:53:19 PM
I noticed the translation for the Japanese Manual on MrP's Castlevania Realm seems to say that Sonia was looking for her father when she met Alucard while the English manual says Alucard was looking for his father when he met Sonia does anyone know which one is correct?
It's mistranslation.

http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Sonia_Belmont#Sonia's_father (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Sonia_Belmont#Sonia's_father)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Maedhros on May 31, 2013, 08:07:44 PM
My point in bringing up the combat in LoI was to say that the influence on LoS' combat didn't come out of left field. The system of combos and such, the button layout, etc, are similar. Sure there are GoW influences, no one's saying there aren't. But the combat engine itself is very similar to what was used in LoI. That's the point I was trying to make.

I also wasn't saying that LoS should be completely separated from the previous games, and it's not if you know the influences. But like I said, it WAS classified as a reboot, so obviously it's going to be quite a bit different from its predecessors, regardless of what kinds of name-checking they do of previous games/characters. The reason it doesn't feel like anything you've played in Castlevania before is because it plays quite a bit like the previous 3D installments in many ways. Games you admittedly don't like and probably haven't spent much time on, which is why I imagine a lot of the elements of LoS seem alien to you.

It sounds to me like you don't really like 3D action games, and that's fine. But it would be like me going in and saying how terrible I think Final Fantasy games are when I'm not really all that into RPGs. In my mind, LoS is the best 3D 'vania we've gotten to date, and the 64 games are among my favorite games of all time. Is LoS the most original game ever created? No. But they did a good job of taking elements used in previous CV games and melding them with new and different influences, which is exactly what Symphony did, and exactly what LoI did.
LOL, I've finished every Castlevania game out there (exception: Order of Shadows - EDIT: And now Mirror of Fate).Your assumption is wrong. I like 3D action games, when they are done well. When they are coming from a 2D entry, they need to pass the formula well. Mario 64, for example, did it extremely well, IMO. Castlevania 64? Lol.
So yeah, it didn't feel like any other Castlevania game at all. All these elements I don't like are prominent in games like God of War, Uncharted, etc (games that I actually finished too). The only elements from the older games LoS have are names.

Yoy're actually right when you say that LoS is the best 3D entry of the series... the previous ones were simply a lot worse. But at least they felt more like Castlevania to me than LoS.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 01, 2013, 01:09:12 AM
I just realized that CotM's composer, Sotaro Tojima, would've been pretty bummed by the last two CV's soundtracks.
From here:
http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Media/cotmhod.html (http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Media/cotmhod.html)
That's one hell of a composer. CotM's soundtrack is one of the best.
My BIGGEST wish for the future of Castlevania, whatever happens with the rest, if I had to decide just ONE thing and nothing more, is to have again Castlevania signature music back.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Nagumo on June 01, 2013, 01:19:58 AM
I'm not actively advocating for female Belmonts or anything like that, but if the big issue that prevents the developers from implementing this concept is the inability to pass on family name and the whip, then don't consider me impressed. I mean come on, they're the frigging Belmonts. Why would they care about gender norms?  Besides, why does it have to be roadblock? Just have this hypothetical character be the heir to the name and whip anyway. No player is going to prostest or get upset when that happens. It's just fiction. Not to mention, they don't have to be in your face about it. It's not an issue until you consider it to be one
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on June 01, 2013, 01:31:18 AM
LOL, I've finished every Castlevania game out there (exception: Order of Shadows - EDIT: And now Mirror of Fate).Your assumption is wrong. I like 3D action games, when they are done well. When they are coming from a 2D entry, they need to pass the formula well. Mario 64, for example, did it extremely well, IMO. Castlevania 64? Lol.
So yeah, it didn't feel like any other Castlevania game at all. All these elements I don't like are prominent in games like God of War, Uncharted, etc (games that I actually finished too). The only elements from the older games LoS have are names.

Yoy're actually right when you say that LoS is the best 3D entry of the series... the previous ones were simply a lot worse. But at least they felt more like Castlevania to me than LoS.

My assumption came from you posting that you didn't like any of the 3D CV games. It's one thing to finish a game, but another thing to actually KNOW it. There are plenty of elements of the older games evident in LoS if you know the history and the influences, but I can see we're just going to have to agree to disagree here.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Nagumo on June 01, 2013, 01:44:27 AM
Also, this is a transcript of how I feel an average player will react when asked about his feelings about a new Belmont protagonist who also turns out to be a woman:
Quote from: Average Player
Is she hot? No seriously bro, is she hot?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 01, 2013, 02:01:06 AM
I think the average player also don't want a woman as a lead character, because they want to imagine they actually are the character on the screen. We all do that as players in a way or another, but I don't have any problem with a male lead.
It's just that it bothers me a little to have so few female protagonists outside of JRPG's.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on June 01, 2013, 02:26:17 AM
Well, you have to figure that most of the people playing these games ARE guys, so the devs are going to want to cater to them as much as possible. Not saying it's right, but I understand, especially when budgets are as big as they are and one massive flop can mean a studio has to close up shop.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 01, 2013, 02:52:51 AM
That's true, but I guess it wouldn't be much trouble to make one female playable character, at least as a DLC or an unlockable extra.
That would still be relegating female characters to a secondary place, but at least I'd get to play as a girl.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 01, 2013, 02:54:16 AM
Also, this is a transcript of how I feel an average player will react when asked about his feelings about a new Belmont protagonist who also turns out to be a woman:
Name one ugly Belmont. Male or female.

That is not gender-specific. It's simply rare to see ugly or average looking protagonists.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Successor The Cruel on June 01, 2013, 03:05:12 AM
I'm not actively advocating for female Belmonts or anything like that, but if the big issue that prevents the developers from implementing this concept is the inability to pass on family name and the whip, then don't consider me impressed. I mean come on, they're the frigging Belmonts. Why would they care about gender norms?  Besides, why does it have to be roadblock? Just have this hypothetical character be the heir to the name and whip anyway. No player is going to prostest or get upset when that happens. It's just fiction. Not to mention, they don't have to be in your face about it. It's not an issue until you consider it to be one

So, your reasoning is that we just... ignore everything just for the sake of having a girl? With all due respect, you can color me unimpressed as well.

Again, I'd like to reiterate that I don't have any problems with female leads. If they are to be done, I think they should just... uhm... make sense. If a female Belmont is used (especially in ancient Europe), to get her to make sense and not leave everyone (those who care, at least) scratching their heads, one would have to bring out the fact that she is a female. It would have to be an issue in the story. While that wouldn't be the biggest crime in the world, I preferred how gender wasn't an issue with Shanoa. The story did not focus on that, and her character wasn't largely shaped by her being a female. She just... happened to be that way. I thought that was very graceful.

It's sort of like how in Night of the Living Dead, a 1968 horror film, the lead character, Ben, is a black man. That was never an issue in the story. I don't even recall it being brought up once. That didn't shape his character. I would personally prefer things to be handled that way, unless, of course, the story is about a black guy being black, or a girl being a girl, but I really don't look for Castlevania to delve into things like that.

I mean, I wouldn't make a massive fuss if Konami just said to hell with everyone, make the Belmont a girl and let the fans figure it out on their own. I just wouldn't do that myself when there are other comfortable options, like Shanoa, Charlotte, and so on.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on June 01, 2013, 03:12:11 AM
That's true, but I guess it wouldn't be much trouble to make one female playable character, at least as a DLC or an unlockable extra.
That would still be relegating female characters to a secondary place, but at least I'd get to play as a girl.

That would be assuming there were a female in the story that were considered a worthy and capable second playable character.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on June 01, 2013, 03:13:50 AM
That would be assuming there were a female in the story that were considered a worthy and capable second playable character.

That i really doubt. They wanted Dracul to be so badass, he doesn't need any support.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on June 01, 2013, 03:15:05 AM
That i really doubt. They wanted Dracul to be so badass, he doesn't need any support.

There aren't any females in the LoS storyline that would really make for good playable characters. They'd have to introduce someone new to make it happen.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on June 01, 2013, 03:17:23 AM
There aren't any females in the LoS storyline that would really make for good playable characters. They'd have to introduce someone new to make it happen.

Knowing MS, they wont do it.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Nagumo on June 01, 2013, 05:20:25 AM
So, your reasoning is that we just... ignore everything just for the sake of having a girl? With all due respect, you can color me unimpressed as well.

Well, to be fair, the Castlevania series in general tends to ignore things (such as historical facts) for the sake of having things.  :P

Again, I'd like to reiterate that I don't have any problems with female leads. If they are to be done, I think they should just... uhm... make sense. If a female Belmont is used (especially in ancient Europe), to get her to make sense and not leave everyone (those who care, at least) scratching their heads, one would have to bring out the fact that she is a female. It would have to be an issue in the story. While that wouldn't be the biggest crime in the world, I preferred how gender wasn't an issue with Shanoa. The story did not focus on that, and her character wasn't largely shaped by her being a female. She just... happened to be that way. I thought that was very graceful.

Personally, I think it's better not to touch upon the issue at all like you pointed out with how Shanoa's character was handled in Ecclesia. Because if you do that, you give in to the world view that women are less likely to be protagonists in Castlevania's world, which just further complicates the issue. 

When they implement a female protagonist it should not be done to make a statement. Like you said, it should be handled gracefully. If the developers designed a Belmont character and find it appropriate to make this character a girl this time around they should just go for it, and not be restricted by, well, inrelevant stuff, really.   
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on June 01, 2013, 08:30:05 AM

Hmm... Castlevania is...


-Game with protagonist(s) that jump(s) twice as high as average human, probably even more, and have abilities no normal human has.
-Game with otherworldly magical weaponry that defies the laws of physics.
-Game with mythical creatures with strange powers that are out to attack.
-Game with natural and unnatural structures built to defy human comprehension.
-Game with, at best, a very loose tie to our world's history, which often it ignores, tiptoes around, or changes.
-Game with anachronistic events, with items, people, and other stuff out of context and out of proper time period...


...but people have a problem with a female protagonist because 'historically that has not been the case'.


Sounds like I have to pull the "Male Privilege" Bingo Card again.


(http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/image/maleprivilegebingo.png)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: X on June 01, 2013, 10:32:34 AM
Quote
Hmm... Castlevania is...


-Game with protagonist(s) that jump(s) twice as high as average human, probably even more, and have abilities no normal human has.
-Game with otherworldly magical weaponry that defies the laws of physics.
-Game with mythical creatures with strange powers that are out to attack.
-Game with natural and unnatural structures built to defy human comprehension.
-Game with, at best, a very loose tie to our world's history, which often it ignores, tiptoes around, or changes.
-Game with anachronistic events, with items, people, and other stuff out of context and out of proper time period...


...but people have a problem with a female protagonist because 'historically that has not been the case'.

Yep. There's just no excuse not to have a female, vampirekiller wielding Belmont lead. In ANY era of said series.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Laina on June 01, 2013, 11:06:29 AM
^^^ Agreed.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on June 01, 2013, 12:37:09 PM
I just find it kinda funny how some people still cringe when there aren't enough female Belmont leads, or female leads in general. The gender of the protagonist doesn't affect my gameplay in a Castlevania game, nor should it affect anyone elses. I don't think it would've mattered if I was playing as Dolores or Zoe Belmont instead of Desmond. If Castlevania ReBirth starred Kokoro Belmont instead of Chris, then I wouldn't care at all.

And with the way Japan over-sexualizes their heroines in games (Bayonetta, even Sonia in her scantily-clad artworks), had they released a stand-alone game with Scarlet Belmont that has Kate Upton-esque endowments, those certain people would be in an uproar yet again on why they can't make an average-looking female without big titties, when they should suspect how she'll look anway especially coming from Japan so it should come as no surprise. Even if it was an overweight female Belmont I wouldn't mind so long as the game plays like Castlevania (however there will always be those that will criticize no matter what). Personally I don't take it seriously with in-depth analyses on our culture & medieval societies & heirarchy & genetics & such. Just enjoy the game for what it is and try to leave your gender-biases/"equality for all!" speeches out of it.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on June 01, 2013, 01:02:26 PM
(http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/W7rm0cHbcGc0LynujNxTGA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Y2g9NjMwO2NyPTE7Y3c9NjMwO2R4PTA7ZHk9MDtmaT11bGNyb3A7aD00NzI7cT04NTt3PTQ3Mg--/http://l.yimg.com/os/423/2013/03/15/GameOfThrones-Gwendoline-630-jpg_033656.jpg)
(http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Graphics/Gallery/GameOfThrones_S2_Brienne_of_Tarth_02.jpg)

Brienne of Tarth.  She'd work as a female Actraiser protagonist.  Great with a sword.
Her looks are unimportant.  Her skill is what matters.


That's kinda why I dig Agrias from "Final Fantasy Tactics", too:
(http://www.cosplayisland.co.uk/files/costumes/58/27023/Final%20Fantasy%20Tactics%20-%20Agrias%20All%20Around.jpg)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Dark Nemesis on June 01, 2013, 01:08:09 PM
Jorge, you are watching game of thrones?  :o
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: chainsawmidget on June 01, 2013, 01:22:49 PM
I just find it kinda funny how some people still cringe when there aren't enough female Belmont leads, or female leads in general. The gender of the protagonist doesn't affect my gameplay in a Castlevania game, nor should it affect anyone elses. I don't think it would've mattered if I was playing as Dolores or Zoe Belmont instead of Desmond. If Castlevania ReBirth starred Kokoro Belmont instead of Chris, then I wouldn't care at all.

If having a female protagonist doesn't matter, then why not throw a few in?  It gives it some variety. 

Give the choice between a character that looks different from the others and a character that DOESN'T look different from the others, I'll go with the original look. 

... it's better than another 98 pound albino pretty boy, anyway.   :-*

Which brings me too the next point...

Quote
And with the way Japan over-sexualizes their heroines in games (Bayonetta, even Sonia in her scantily-clad artworks), had they released a stand-alone game with Scarlet Belmont that has Kate Upton-esque endowments, those certain people would be in an uproar yet again on why they can't make an average-looking female without big titties, when they should suspect how she'll look anway especially coming from Japan so it should come as no surprise. Even if it was an overweight female Belmont I wouldn't mind so long as the game plays like Castlevania (however there will always be those that will criticize no matter what). Personally I don't take it seriously with in-depth analyses on our culture & medieval societies & heirarchy & genetics & such. Just enjoy the game for what it is and try to leave your gender-biases/"equality for all!" speeches out of it.
Japan has some pretty horrible character designers sometimes. 

... and by "sometimes" I mean "often." 

Still, they've accepted that Non-Japanese developers can work on their products, why not have a non-Japanese artists work along with them, or at least assist with some character designs? 
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on June 01, 2013, 01:32:43 PM
With Castlevania, I thought Carrie Fernandez was a great choice, and is often overlooked (people point to Charlotte or Shanoa instead):

1. female character
2. not sexualized at all (though the Internet went and ruined that one)
3. a serious character, as opposed to Maria Renard, which is the opposite of that.
4. competent and capable. 
5. her game is just as cool as Reinhardt's, and is often the preferred character out of the three playables due to the flexibility of her attacks.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: crisis on June 01, 2013, 01:46:12 PM
Quote
If having a female protagonist doesn't matter, then why not throw a few in?  It gives it some variety
They've already have a variety of playable female characters; Laura, Yoko, Charlotte, Carrie, Maria, Stella/Loretta, etc. Granted they're not the main leads, but they're at least playable & contribute to the plot. There's plenty of female characters in CV, but since they're not the lead characters in the story then it's a travesty & unnacceptable to some. How come we haven't had a black Belmont protagonist? Surely there must have been some mixed racial couples in the timeline somewhere, so why don't they have the next game feature an African American Belmont? I demand it, because African Americans play Castlevania too and it's unfair because I'm sure they're tired of playing as white male "pretty boys" in all these games! /sarcasm

I may be wrong but it seems people just won't be completely happy until they see a reimagined Sonia or Sonia re-instated in the canon, and she MUST be the main character on the box; which we already got in Shanoa, but some people only give her half-credit because she doesn't have a "Whip Glyph." Honestly like I said I wouldn't care either way, if the next game had a female protagonist. If the next 3 games had female protagonists, cool whatever. If the next 4 games had male "pretty boy" protagonists, cool whatever.

At least, that's from what I gather..
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 01, 2013, 02:03:51 PM
This conversation keeps fluctuating as if people on occasion completely forget there have been several playable female characters already. And as if it would be a monumental if there is to be more in the future.

Seriously, people. Castlevania is about the last series I'd shoehorn a political gender statement in - because it has a sexist agenda about as much as an episode of MacGyver. It is actually fairly innocent in this world of ours. If I were worried or interested in marching for this cause, I'd focus my energy on loathsome gangsta simulators or the plethora of other drivel that exists. Not a series where you whip walls for pot roasts and decorate rooms.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 01, 2013, 02:13:56 PM
Quote
(though the Internet went and ruined that one)

If you're gonna go on a hunger strike until the Internet is full of balanced individuals with high moral standards, I'd start munching donuts and Italian cuisine before the deadline. And perhaps write my will.

And how does the foul touch of the dark side of Internet ruin anything? The Simpsons porn was burned to my retina when I was attacked with it, but it didn't ruin Simpsons for me.

..Writers of the show did that later.

Quote
Japan has some pretty horrible character designers sometimes.

... and by "sometimes" I mean "often."

Japan gets away with a lot of things when it comes to fiction and entertainment. Loots of things. But we buy their stuff anyway.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on June 01, 2013, 02:33:02 PM
Carrie, Sonia, and Shanoa are lead characters.
I don't think that Carrie 'assists' Reinhardt, as their quests are concurrent.

Ideally, they would meet up while in their travels and both would defeat Dracula but that's about as likely to be explained as to how Trevor defeated Dracula with all three of his allies.  It's just assumed that they did some kind of an assault.

My part of the fluctuation of this conversation happens only when people bring up the (ill-conceived) notion that in a videogame with all the fantastic stuff I described previously, that it's unreasonable for a female lead, etc..  I'm not debating whether there should be more or should be less female leads (though personally I welcome it), but saying "Well we shouldn't have one 'cuz back in the day, blah blah women didn't have those roles blah blah more gender crap blah blah males are stronger blah blah" sounds like a dated notion.  It's a little disingenuous when playing a game that's essentially a fantasy, to shoehorn archaic male/female gender roles from our ancient times.

@Dark Nemesis:
Yeah I am.  That's a great show. :)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Maedhros on June 01, 2013, 08:03:49 PM
My assumption came from you posting that you didn't like any of the 3D CV games. It's one thing to finish a game, but another thing to actually KNOW it.
Lol...
If I finish the game, you can be freaking sure that I'll finish it 100%. My point still stands. I don't see previous Castlevania in LoS (besides some elements that they purposely kept there to attract the older fanbase, but of course. But there are 10% of the game, it's a whole new thing).

This conversation keeps fluctuating as if people on occasion completely forget there have been several playable female characters already. And as if it would be a monumental if there is to be more in the future.

Seriously, people. Castlevania is about the last series I'd shoehorn a political gender statement in - because it has a sexist agenda about as much as an episode of MacGyver. It is actually fairly innocent in this world of ours. If I were worried or interested in marching for this cause, I'd focus my energy on loathsome gangsta simulators or the plethora of other drivel that exists. Not a series where you whip walls for pot roasts and decorate rooms.
And considering Anita's series about woman in games... I don't think it's the last time you'll see the argument at all.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Nagumo on June 02, 2013, 01:35:17 AM
I thought we were just talking about female Belmonts here, but ok.

Also, nobody here is cringing, nagging, complaining, whining etc about anything. If some people want more playable heroines that's perfectly fine and reasonable. 
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 02, 2013, 02:40:38 AM
No, I wasn't complaining either. I just wanted MS to include a playable female character (doesn't matter if it's a lead character), because that way I can get more easily lost in the fantasy of being transported to another world.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kale on June 02, 2013, 03:14:10 AM
I hope they don't... unless they have a real reason for her. I like having a female lead, but I want a reason, not just having one to have one.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 02, 2013, 03:20:30 AM
A DLC chapter with Sypha set in her times, maybe?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 02, 2013, 03:44:20 AM
No, I wasn't complaining either. I just wanted MS to include a playable female character (doesn't matter if it's a lead character), because that way I can get more easily lost in the fantasy of being transported to another world.

Is it really that significant? I don't have a problem getting immersed in the game, regardless of what shaped polygons or pixels are coded beneath the player character's pants. Loads of other things contribute to that.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 02, 2013, 04:28:45 AM
Of course there's a lot of things. Soundtrack, level design and general locations, immersive and intuitive gameplay, catching and emotional story...
It's just that sometimes female characters make me feel more in the skin of the character. Like it's really me who is inside the castle, for instance.
Maybe for men players it's different. Or maybe it's just me.
But if I had to choose, look and music come first, at least.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Successor The Cruel on June 02, 2013, 08:43:08 AM
I may be wrong but it seems people just won't be completely happy until they see a reimagined Sonia or Sonia re-instated in the canon, and she MUST be the main character on the box; which we already got in Shanoa, but some people only give her half-credit because she doesn't have a "Whip Glyph."

Right. My intuition tells me that there's an underlying issue to this, and it specifically involves Sonia Belmont and some feeling it was a great injustice to remove that girl from the timeline. Give these people female leads and they're still not happy, despite those leads being much better characters and in much better games o___o

As I mentioned, Legends is a game that turned Castlevania on its head with its weird story, proclaimed to be the beginning of the saga, which is somewhat disappointing as it's very unremarkable, and is often thought of to be one of the worst games in the series, and that's only among those who actually know about it, which, comparatively, is not that many people, as it's very obscure and rare. Frankly, I would rather Konami not revisit anything from that. I appreciate that they make new female characters who, in my mind, are much better than Legends' Sonia.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on June 02, 2013, 09:08:17 AM
All of this ish about Castlevania being politically correct and not one mention of the fact that there has never been one character of African descent in a CV game, much less a playable character.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: chainsawmidget on June 02, 2013, 09:16:32 AM
All of this ish about Castlevania being politically correct and not one mention of the fact that there has never been one character of African descent in a CV game, much less a playable character.
Mummies come from Africa.   :P

Seriously though, I get your point.  You'd think they would have had some kind of Witch Doctor or Blade expy by now. 
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on June 02, 2013, 09:24:26 AM
Some people think Hammer is black.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Neobelmont on June 02, 2013, 09:27:32 AM
Some people think Hammer is black.

He is darn it. If there was a live action flim of cv he would be played by Samuel L. freaking Jackson.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: X on June 02, 2013, 09:37:17 AM
Quote
Right. My intuition tells me that there's an underlying issue to this, and it specifically involves Sonia Belmont and some feeling it was a great injustice to remove that girl from the timeline. Give these people female leads and they're still not happy, despite those leads being much better characters and in much better games o___o

While I think Shanoa is a good lead character as well as others like N64's Carrie, they aren't of the main Belmont family line and aren't using the vampirekiller. This is my beef with the series. Konami nor any of the past CV directors have no excuses what-so-ever about this issue.

Quote
He is darn it. If there was a live action flim of cv he would be played by Samuel L. freaking Jackson.

I'd go with Mr. T.

Soma "Look's like Hammer's Intel wasn't so iffy after all."

Hammer "Shuttup Foo! You doubt my info little man!?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on June 02, 2013, 09:38:35 AM
Hammer is white.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Neobelmont on June 02, 2013, 09:57:38 AM
Hammer is white.

He is straight out black. I remember my brother and I having a conversation about Hammer he said he that he might be Hispanic, but I still stand by my statement that he is black.



I'd go with Mr. T.

Soma "Look's like Hammer's Intel wasn't so iffy after all."

Hammer "Shuttup Foo! You doubt my info little man!?

+1 to you good sir

The  things he would say to Yoko get's flashback of Rocky 3.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on June 02, 2013, 10:18:45 AM
Haha ok. If you say so.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 02, 2013, 10:21:35 AM
Hammer isn't black? What kind of jibba jabba is this?

Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 02, 2013, 10:24:51 AM
Hammer is white.

[Kojima picture]

This character is black:

http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-06/art/mgs2-fortune.jpg (http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-06/art/mgs2-fortune.jpg)

Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on June 02, 2013, 10:40:11 AM
Just take a look at his official art. He has blue/green eyes. If this guy is supposed to be black, then he's the whitest black guy I've ever seen. If not white, then maybe Hispanic.

Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Neobelmont on June 02, 2013, 10:48:34 AM
Just take a look at his official art. He has blue/green eyes. If this guy is supposed to be black, then he's the whitest black guy I've ever seen. If not white, then maybe Hispanic.

I'm the whitest black guy or so my friends tell me  :rollseyes:  I'm a oreo cookie.  8)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on June 02, 2013, 11:05:15 AM
Could be half-Canadian, half-Samoan, thus confusing all of you!
You know... like THIS GUY! ;D

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/dr/hln/www/release/sites/default/files/imagecache/textarticle_640/2012/09/04/rock.jpg)


Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ahasverus on June 02, 2013, 11:09:53 AM
Hammer is white.
If anything he looks arab, but black he isn't. So Castlevana is now mysogynistic and racist lol don't let anyone on kotaku hear this
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 02, 2013, 11:10:36 AM
Just take a look at his official art. He has blue/green eyes. If this guy is supposed to be black, then he's the whitest black guy I've ever seen. If not white, then maybe Hispanic.



And as you can see, Fortune has blonde hair and light skin (she is darker in the game, though).
It might be that the Japanese have problems with character models of black people.

Also, light eyed black people do actually exist.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ahasverus on June 02, 2013, 11:13:23 AM
And as you can see, Fortune has blonde hair and light skin (she is darker in the game, though).
It might be that the Japanese have problems with character models of black people.

Also, light eyed black people do actually exist.
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/38345387.jpg)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 02, 2013, 11:14:44 AM
We need Cox..I mean IGA to clarify this.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Neobelmont on June 02, 2013, 11:16:48 AM
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/38345387.jpg)

Bitch Slap Sound Effect (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFFLeJE48t0#)

Oh yes it will.

And so the great  never ending mystery of Hammer still continues.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Belmontoya on June 02, 2013, 11:18:54 AM
I think Jorge is on to something. Hammer must be Rockonian.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Neobelmont on June 02, 2013, 11:19:47 AM
I think Jorge is on to something. Hammer must be Rockonian.

You smell what the Hammer's cooking?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 02, 2013, 11:20:14 AM
Hey guys, how about an MS Hammer? His theme would be an Araujo version of U can't touch this.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on June 02, 2013, 11:33:31 AM
You smell what the Hammer's cooking?

Pancakes, Hammer! Pancakes!
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on June 02, 2013, 04:53:26 PM
I'd always heard Hammer was black but he looks Japanese to me.  :P
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kale on June 02, 2013, 04:55:14 PM
Hammer looks black to me. Not only he has a darker skin tone, but his face looks black.

 AS for eye color, etc.... ... Just wanted to say: Like Ryu Hayabusa with his green eyes?
(http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/20000000/Ryu-in-Ninja-Gaiden-3-ryu-hayabusa-20052054-600-372.jpg)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: beingthehero on June 02, 2013, 08:21:00 PM
Pancakes, Hammer! Pancakes!

Pancakes! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EhRGRFnpm0#)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Maedhros on June 02, 2013, 10:06:33 PM
There are lots and lots of black people with green, blue, etc. eyes out there.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: X on June 03, 2013, 12:06:54 AM
Quote
You smell what the Hammer's cooking?

I think his slogan would be on the lines of: You hear what the Hammer's nail'n?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on June 03, 2013, 12:13:27 AM
I could accept Hammer as Dwayne Johnson.
I swear I imagined some wrestling moves when I translated Hammer's part in Ricordanza.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 03, 2013, 01:42:33 AM
MC Hammer  :P
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Kamirine on June 03, 2013, 06:11:08 PM
Oddly, I never really thought about what Hammer was until now.  :P  I was always just amazed by how the eyes on Ayami's designs remind me of Michael Jackson sometimes.  (Don't ask.)

If I had to ask, I personally think he's mixed.  Maybe Asian and Black?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on June 05, 2013, 09:42:33 AM
Pancakes! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EhRGRFnpm0#)

WHAT MOVIE IS THAT!?!?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 06, 2013, 12:26:34 AM
WHAT MOVIE IS THAT!?!?
Cabin Fever  :P
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on June 07, 2013, 07:05:19 AM
This thread has completely run the gamut of topics! xD What else could we talk about?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 07, 2013, 02:56:39 PM
Cute puppies? ♥
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on June 07, 2013, 05:14:50 PM
Yes.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img12/7789/29712410151402200211479.jpg)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 07, 2013, 05:34:27 PM
AAAWWWWWW!!!!!!!♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
I'm melting right now!!!!!!
Is it yours?  :)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on June 07, 2013, 06:52:44 PM
Naw. I wish. I don't have pets.

Cutest puppy, ever. EVER. My heart melted irl (Husky) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuQh_dk-WYA#)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: X on June 08, 2013, 08:24:34 PM
Wow! That little puppy must only be a week or so, old. It so cuuuute  :D
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on June 09, 2013, 12:40:48 AM
Husky Puppy's 1st Howl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UgdkifRN4c#ws)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on June 09, 2013, 01:55:33 AM
Lol one of the reasons I love the Dungeon; if things go painfully off topic it doesn't mean the end of a thread. xD
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 09, 2013, 02:54:51 AM
Sometimes that is the best moment of a topic!  :)
I just LOVE LOVE LOVE puppies ♥ ♥ ♥
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on June 09, 2013, 03:08:09 AM
More puppies! ♥
I can't stop scrolling.

http://www.cutestpaw.com/articles/50-cute-puppies-make-your-girlfriend-smile/ (http://www.cutestpaw.com/articles/50-cute-puppies-make-your-girlfriend-smile/)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Neobelmont on June 09, 2013, 11:37:24 AM
Reminds me of when our dog  was a pup. She's about 5-6 years now I think. pure black she was now she's gray and black.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Ahasverus on June 09, 2013, 07:26:23 PM
It's train time

(https://skitch-img.s3.amazonaws.com/20070813-1br62fitcr7ur3eggrmntuacsd.png)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on June 12, 2013, 03:24:19 AM
Hahaha puppies and train wrecks
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: chainsawmidget on June 12, 2013, 02:03:39 PM
Dracula wants in on the cute puppies picture. 
(http://i.imgur.com/mJbf7z3.jpg)

You can almost hear him saying, "Those other puppies are cute!  Why can't you be cute, you accursed vampire dog?" 
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: X on June 12, 2013, 06:06:33 PM
Oh hell yeah! Where was that dog in Castlevania? Oh wait! It was already shown in super Castlevania IV.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120306062541/castlevania/images/thumb/7/7a/37zombiedog.jpg/120px-37zombiedog.jpg (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120306062541/castlevania/images/thumb/7/7a/37zombiedog.jpg/120px-37zombiedog.jpg)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Lashen on June 12, 2013, 06:42:56 PM
Jerk Belmont (Part 1) - Super Castlevania IV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Jn_dv_Wtw#)

This one?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: beingthehero on June 12, 2013, 08:21:40 PM
I could never bring myself to kill that dog, or the ones in DoS. I'm such a weenie.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: DoctaMario on June 13, 2013, 08:58:20 AM
I could never bring myself to kill that dog, or the ones in DoS. I'm such a weenie.

Hahaha, doesn't the old man cry when you kill the dog or is that another game? I always felt a tinge bad killing the Owl Knight's owl in SoTN, but then again it's like, "Shoulda left me alone dammit." xD
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 13, 2013, 08:59:47 AM
Same here - when it comes to the Owl Knight. I try to kill the knight instead of the owl so he doesn't have to mourn his loss  :-*
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 13, 2013, 10:27:10 AM
Same here - when it comes to the Owl Knight. I try to kill the knight instead of the owl so he doesn't have to mourn his loss  :-*
I do the same  :)

Dracula wants in on the cute puppies picture. 
(http://i.imgur.com/mJbf7z3.jpg)

You can almost hear him saying, "Those other puppies are cute!  Why can't you be cute, you accursed vampire dog?" 
Hahahaha! I'm literally LOL now!
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on June 13, 2013, 01:29:23 PM
Isn't there a similar enemy that has a dog. I think? I always would kill the guy and not the pooch
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: TheouAegis on June 13, 2013, 09:30:15 PM
Zombie Hunter. Or something like that. Sends an undead dog after you. If you kill the dog, he cries. If you kill him, the dog cries. Either way you feel like a douche.

I've said it before, even though I dislike the IGAvanias for their sloppy design, they had some of the most entertaining enemies of any game series. How many other non-ecchi video games let you use a vacuum to lift up a maid's skirt? Or make you feel horrible for killing a killer animal?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on June 13, 2013, 09:35:44 PM
If you kill the dog, he cries. If you kill him, the dog cries. Either way you feel like a douche.
Solution: Kill both at the same time. They'll be together in death, and you'll feel less like a douche!
...Is that really possible, I wonder? Haven't played for a long time.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on June 13, 2013, 10:52:57 PM
Solution: Kill both at the same time. They'll be together in death, and you'll feel less like a douche!
...Is that really possible, I wonder? Haven't played for a long time.

Um, if I am not mistaken, with a regular weapon, the dog dies in one hit but it takes about 2-3 hits to kill the man.
I didn't bother to upgrade my weapons to the maximum, but I think it is possible to kill them both at once with a high powered weapon.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 13, 2013, 11:08:29 PM
I don't recall if they are from PoR, but in the end I could kill anything with 1 hit with Charlotte (and Dracula in 16 hits I believe was the top).
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: TheouAegis on June 14, 2013, 06:47:24 PM
I don't think you can, actually, technically. The first one to take lethal damage would trigger the other one to enter its mourning state. Once in the mourning state, it becomes invulnerable. So while it might look like you killed both at once, only one actually died. Without debugging or slow-mo screen caps, it'd be hard to verify.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: VladCT on June 14, 2013, 07:49:56 PM
Theoretically, if I were to whittle down the old man's HP so I can finish him off with a bullet soul and then use something like Mandragora or Erinys while both the dog and the old man were in range, would that kill both at the same time?
Of course, such a feat, if at all possible, would be difficult without tool assistance.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: TheouAegis on June 14, 2013, 08:33:06 PM
I think it depends entirely on how IGA's team programmed it. More than likely, they would have set the "mourning" flag for whichever had the lowest register (the man, I think) and the other half would check the flag before detecting damage. At least in CV3, collision detection was handled at the start of each step. If Konami didn't check the mourning flag until the specific behavioral code (as opposed to the universal behavioral code like collision detecting), then theoretically you might be able to kill both at the same time. If they checked the mourning flag at the start of the step, though, then no.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Inccubus on June 15, 2013, 01:06:14 PM
Same here - when it comes to the Owl Knight. I try to kill the knight instead of the owl so he doesn't have to mourn his loss  :-*

Glad I'm not the only one.  :'(
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: TheouAegis on June 15, 2013, 02:21:46 PM
I kill the knight first because it's just a fuckin' owl -- I know I can take it!  8)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on June 20, 2013, 04:27:55 AM
But the owl has Talons man.  :o
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: X on June 20, 2013, 09:46:35 AM
I find it doesn't bother me if I kill the owl knight's owl or the old man's dog first. They are going to attack me if I don't act. If they cry or mourn the loss of their beloved pets then they shouldn't have trained them to kill me in the first place. It's their loss because they didn't put first the animal's well-being. Beside they all serve Dracula and are monsters so I'm not gonna feel sorry for them. If it were a real life situation that would be a totally different story. And I would feel sorry for them if i was forced to take 'em down. To take a life in a video game is easy as I know they are nothing more then coding and graphics with sound effects. But in real life I don't believe I ever could kill an animal because my mind's on how they would feel.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Thomas Belmont on June 20, 2013, 06:51:28 PM
I could never bring myself to kill that dog, or the ones in DoS. I'm such a weenie.


Being a huge animal lover, I hate when games have animals as enemies!
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 20, 2013, 11:49:41 PM
I don't have a problem killing animals.

Unless they're owls, bunnies or elephants.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Esco on June 21, 2013, 12:10:40 AM
I find it doesn't bother me if I kill the owl knight's owl or the old man's dog first. They are going to attack me if I don't act. If they cry or mourn the loss of their beloved pets then they shouldn't have trained them to kill me in the first place. It's their loss because they didn't put first the animal's well-being. Beside they all serve Dracula and are monsters so I'm not gonna feel sorry for them. If it were a real life situation that would be a totally different story. And I would feel sorry for them if i was forced to take 'em down. To take a life in a video game is easy as I know they are nothing more then coding and graphics with sound effects. But in real life I don't believe I ever could kill an animal because my mind's on how they would feel.

BWA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Good luck with that; and while that animal you are afraid to kill attacks and chews you up, someone like me will be out with your girl. :P

And if that's too rude, crass, and obscure for you, let me be more direct: never feel remorse for defending yourself. It's
just plain stupid.  :)

on a side note: this thread took a flying leap RIGHT OFF a fucking bridge. lol
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 21, 2013, 12:29:25 AM
I don't have a problem killing animals.

Unless they're owls, bunnies or elephants.

Oh, and ducks.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Flame on June 21, 2013, 12:38:47 AM
BWA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Good luck with that; and while that animal you are afraid to kill attacks and chews you up, someone like me will be out with your girl. :P

And if that's too rude, crass, and obscure for you, let me be more direct: never feel remorse for defending yourself. It's
just plain stupid.  :)
Was that necessary..?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 21, 2013, 01:01:05 AM
Yes. Yes it was.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Koutei on June 21, 2013, 01:25:48 AM
Needs "CV animals" topic.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: A-Yty on June 21, 2013, 01:44:44 AM
If there's an animal enemy to feel sorry for, it's the Dodo. Those things don't even attack you. On the contrary, they run away.

Besides, what the hell did a dodo ever do to deserve undeath as Dracula's minion..
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on June 21, 2013, 05:16:00 AM
If there's an animal enemy to feel sorry for, it's the Dodo. Those things don't even attack you. On the contrary, they run away.

Besides, what the hell did a dodo ever do to deserve undeath as Dracula's minion..

They easily went extinct. Dracs might have given them another chance at "life".
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: son_the_vampire on June 21, 2013, 07:38:36 AM
Well what about the were bears and jaguars? Are they humans turned animal? if so is Nathan Graves actually a holy murderer? Lemme stop right there :-X
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: X on June 21, 2013, 10:17:12 AM
Quote
Good luck with that; and while that animal you are afraid to kill attacks and chews you up, someone like me will be out with your girl. :P

This won't work on me cause I don't have a girl so good luck at making love to open air. Plus when you put it like this; your girl, you make it sound like women are property. That's sick.

Quote
And if that's too rude, crass, and obscure for you, let me be more direct: never feel remorse for defending yourself. It's
just plain stupid.  :)

No, it's not stupid, it's only human. If you feel nothing for taking a life whether or not it was in self defense then you've got some serious psychological issues. Human beings are geared to feel. It's our inherent nature and it defines us as a species.

Quote
Yes. Yes it was.

No. No it wasn't. Jorge has specifically stated the rules of the thread. Though some people choose not to follow them cause they no-doubt feel it takes away from their so-called fun. What might be fun for someone won't be for the other person on the receiving end. It's just more of that delinquent high school bullshit that some people have chosen not to let go of because they feel it gives them a sense of power over another. And that is also very sick way of thinking.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: chainsawmidget on June 21, 2013, 01:46:47 PM
Keep in mind, if you don't kill animals, they will kill you.

(http://i.imgur.com/zeEaZAh.jpg)
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: X on June 21, 2013, 06:04:50 PM
Quote
Keep in mind, if you don't kill animals, they will kill you.

That's like that quote from South Park

Uncle Jimbo: It's commin' right for us!!

*Ka-Blam!*
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: beingthehero on June 21, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Good luck with that; and while that animal you are afraid to kill attacks and chews you up, someone like me will be out with your girl. :P

The Donster (Sometimes This Happens) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2anAC544QQA#ws)


?
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Munchy on June 22, 2013, 01:47:44 AM

Being a huge animal lover, I hate when games have animals as enemies!

For me, animals being enemies in games isn't so much about taking joy in killing them as it is about them looking cool and being more than just another humanoid enemy.

Like Stolas in Aria of Sorrow. He was such a crazy looking creature. I wish they'd bring him back. And I can't deny the utter badassery of those infected wolves in Resident Evil 4 that maul the bejesus out of you.

Although sometimes animal enemies are awful, like those fucker eagles in Ninja Gaiden.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: TheouAegis on June 22, 2013, 08:05:43 AM
Well what about the were bears and jaguars? Are they humans turned animal? if so is Nathan Graves actually a holy murderer? Lemme stop right there :-X

They're no longer human, they sold their souls. Whip those fuckers down into their fiery graves!

I like whipping the shewerewolf...
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on June 22, 2013, 10:09:52 PM
I like whipping the shewerewolf...

That is a good idea for a fanfic from anyone in the dungeon who is good with those things.
Title: Re: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"
Post by: Pfil on June 24, 2013, 02:49:33 PM
That is a good idea for a fanfic from anyone in the dungeon who is good with those things.
"Whipping the Shewerewolf" is already a great title with a lot of potential for many kinds of fanfiction  ;)