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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Super Waffle on July 19, 2013, 06:15:24 PM

Title: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Super Waffle on July 19, 2013, 06:15:24 PM
In 2005, Portrait of Ruin introduced the Charm effect that was capable of brainwashing only male targets (i.e. Jonathan) and turning them against their female counterparts (i.e. Charlotte).

It wasn't until 2010 when this horrible injustice was put to rest in Harmony of Despair and Dracula gained a Charm spell capable of seducing female victims into his service.

why?  Who decided girls' brains were perfect and flawless and completely resistant to mindfuckery, while guys' brains were brutish and easily manipulated?  I'm highly offended by this.
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: chainsawmidget on July 19, 2013, 06:37:41 PM
And Why don't any vampire maids ever use their vacuums to look up Simon Belmont's skirt? 
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: TheouAegis on July 19, 2013, 07:54:55 PM
And only the butlers were skeletons, meaning they were forced into menial labor waiting on hand and foot even through death, while the maids were obviously new-hires and given some sort of freedom after their terms of service were up. .... .... I guess one needs to define "freedom" first, though. ... Nevermind, I think this was a bad example.
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on July 20, 2013, 01:11:55 AM
Why are there only succubi and not incubi in the games?
(The drama does not count)
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Mystic Myotis on July 20, 2013, 03:21:51 AM
Why is it that female enemies hit on Shanoa, but male enemies don't hit on Alucard? So sexist. ;_;

And Why don't any vampire maids ever use their vacuums to look up Simon Belmont's skirt?

Very good question.  I'd totally do that if I was in their place.
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Mooning Freddy on July 20, 2013, 03:50:37 AM
Symphony of the Night was actually quite a feminist game. The way Richter was a damsel in distress and Maria was sent to rescue him and all.  :P
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Super Waffle on July 20, 2013, 04:49:28 AM
Symphony of the Night was actually quite a feminist game. The way Richter was a damsel in distress and Maria was sent to rescue him and all.  :P
Fixed it. (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6650628/1/Sacrifice)
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: chainsawmidget on July 20, 2013, 10:51:05 AM
Symphony of the Night was actually quite a feminist game. The way Richter was a damsel in distress and Maria was sent to rescue him and all.  :P
And they even made Alucard look like a girl! 




... I'm sorry.  Somebody had to say it.   :-[
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Tuxedo Mark on July 20, 2013, 10:52:29 AM
All right, now that you've had your fun, how about we address the real sexism in the series, such as why the female protagonists are magic users and don't get to use actual weapons?
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: X on July 20, 2013, 11:23:34 AM
Quote
All right, now that you've had your fun, how about we address the real sexism in the series, such as why the female protagonists are magic users and don't get to use actual weapons?

That was an IGA thing. He claims that Female warriors are not historically accurate without actually having done the research himself. Take Joan of Arch as a good example. She was fighting for France in the early 1400's (1412 to 1431). This is before Sonia's time so I don't see why Sonia Belmont is unrealistic. Joan of Arch was a Knight wearing full-plate mail, brandishing a heavy sword and shield, and was ass-kicking the shit out of the English forces. In fact she was the leader of the french armies due to her skills as a tactician and was a spokeswoman of God. We also have the women of ancient Sparta, the Amazon tribeswomen of Greece and the Celtic/Germanic/Nordic warrior women of the northern European lands. And It does bug me that all the women protagonists in CV are nothing more then magic users and have secondary roles. The only exception is Shanoa. While she is THE main protagonist in OoE she is still a magic user. She is unfortunately not a Belmont nor does she wield the Vampirekiller. IGA had a chance to shine here but he fell short of it (and I'm assuming it was due to personal feelings about his dislike of women warriors).


Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: chainsawmidget on July 20, 2013, 12:07:42 PM
That was an IGA thing. He claims that Female warriors are not historically accurate without actually having done the research himself. Take Joan of Arch as a good example. She was fighting for France in the early 1400's (1412 to 1431). This is before Sonia's time so I don't see why Sonia Belmont is unrealistic. Joan of Arch was a Knight wearing full-plate mail, brandishing a heavy sword and shield, and was ass-kicking the shit out of the English forces. In fact she was the leader of the french armies due to her skills as a tactician and was a spokeswoman of God. We also have the women of ancient Sparta, the Amazon tribeswomen of Greece and the Celtic/Germanic/Nordic warrior women of the northern European lands. And It does bug me that all the women protagonists in CV are nothing more then magic users and have secondary roles. The only exception is Shanoa. While she is THE main protagonist in OoE she is still a magic user. She is unfortunately not a Belmont nor does she wield the Vampirekiller. IGA had a chance to shine here but he fell short of it (and I'm assuming it was due to personal feelings about his dislike of women warriors).

Basically....

These characters are not historically accurate. 
(http://i.imgur.com/2EGO5zx.jpg)


These characters ARE historically accurate. 
(http://i.imgur.com/I3dVQyq.jpg)
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Mooning Freddy on July 20, 2013, 12:13:29 PM
Joan of Arch was a Knight witch wearing full-plate mail, brandishing  a heavy sword and shield some witchful equipment, and was ass-kicking using dark satanic witchery spell casting to kick the shit out of the English forces.

Fixed!  ;)
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Super Waffle on July 20, 2013, 01:28:10 PM
Isaac is clearly the most feminine of the historical female warriors.
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: darkwzrd4 on July 20, 2013, 02:15:04 PM
Not only are the female characters all spell casters, but virtually all the men are warriors. Sure, the men do use some magic, but they are still warriors for the most part. Alucard and Soma seem like exceptions at first but that only because they use more magic than other male characters. They are still warrior builds.

What is needed is a character development system that allows you to develop the character how you want: warrior based, magic based, or some combination of the two. Maybe who ever gets to do CV after MS finishes the LoS series will take this into account (long shot I know, but I can dream can't I?).
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Nagumo on July 20, 2013, 02:43:31 PM
Not only are the female characters all spell casters, but virtually all the men are warriors. Sure, the men do use some magic, but they are still warriors for the most part. Alucard and Soma seem like exceptions at first but that only because they use more magic than other male characters. They are still warrior builds.

What is needed is a character development system that allows you to develop the character how you want: warrior based, magic based, or some combination of the two. Maybe who ever gets to do CV after MS finishes the LoS series will take this into account (long shot I know, but I can dream can't I?).

I would be interested in that. Seems like it would be an interesting new system. Personally, I would also like to see an option where you can play as a male or female main character and actually have it impact the game's story. The male and female MCs could have different relations to supporting characters (characters are friends in one scenario, potential  love interests or rivals in the other, and so on), have different personalities that causes them to make different decisions that lead to alternate story paths, etc etc.

Damn, I wish I had enough creativity to flesh out that idea further and pitch it to Konami.  :(
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Odile Kuronuma on July 20, 2013, 03:04:22 PM
Oh oh and depending on whether you're playing as a male or female, you'll have to face  a male or female version of Dracula that tries to seduce you :D . I'm trying to imagine a female Dracula that kicks ass  ;D.
I know it sounds like a joke but I'm actually serious. I think it would be fun to implement that in a game.
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Ratty on July 20, 2013, 03:45:48 PM
I agree, could led to some fun alternate endings.
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Inccubus on July 20, 2013, 08:43:28 PM
That was an IGA thing. He claims that Female warriors are not historically accurate without actually having done the research himself. Take Joan of Arch as a good example. She was fighting for France in the early 1400's (1412 to 1431). This is before Sonia's time so I don't see why Sonia Belmont is unrealistic. Joan of Arch was a Knight wearing full-plate mail, brandishing a heavy sword and shield, and was ass-kicking the shit out of the English forces. In fact she was the leader of the french armies due to her skills as a tactician and was a spokeswoman of God. We also have the women of ancient Sparta, the Amazon tribeswomen of Greece and the Celtic/Germanic/Nordic warrior women of the northern European lands.

OK. Not for nothing, but IGA wasn't really wrong. Historically women, in general were not warriors. Look, I dig the whole equality thing, but lets not pretend that there were droves of Joans and Mulans running around. These figures were exceptions, they were not the rule by any stretch of the imagination. Also, the Amazons are mythological, LIKELY based on real warrior women within certain cultures, but still a minority.

It's an old trend in fantasy fiction in general. More often than not when there are delineations based on sex women are the spellcasters because they're generally smarter. There are of course always exceptions.

That all said, Castlevania could use another Sonia.


And It does bug me that all the women protagonists in CV are nothing more then magic users and have secondary roles. The only exception is Shanoa. While she is THE main protagonist in OoE she is still a magic user. She is unfortunately not a Belmont nor does she wield the Vampirekiller. IGA had a chance to shine here but he fell short of it (and I'm assuming it was due to personal feelings about his dislike of women warriors).

"nothing more than magic users"? I take exception to this statement. Give credit where it's due. The spell-casting women of Castlevania generally have the most powerful attacks in their respective games... and ALWAYS without the advantage of being a Belmont.

I don't see that IGA could be said to dislike women warriors. If anything, Shanoa is an example of this. Yes, she's a spellcaster. However, she is also a very capable warrior. She doesn't summon weapons to fight for her. She summons them to use in melee combat. On top of that she's also a powerful mage and is even capable of using some of Dracula's own spells. And she defeats him WITHOUT the help of the holy Vampire Killer. I don't see someone who dislikes women warriors putting as strong a heroine as that in one of his games. I don't see how he fell short in any way.
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Nagumo on July 21, 2013, 01:51:30 AM
Oh oh and depending on whether you're playing as a male or female, you'll have to face  a male or female version of Dracula that tries to seduce you :D . I'm trying to imagine a female Dracula that kicks ass  ;D.
I know it sounds like a joke but I'm actually serious. I think it would be fun to implement that in a game.

Hmm, genderbending the antagonist might not be the most subtle thing, but it's possible. :P
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: crisis on July 21, 2013, 02:07:48 AM
Quote
I don't see that IGA could be said to dislike women warriors. If anything, Shanoa is an example of this. Yes, she's a spellcaster. However, she is also a very capable warrior. She doesn't summon weapons to fight for her. She summons them to use in melee combat. On top of that she's also a powerful mage and is even capable of using some of Dracula's own spells. And she defeats him WITHOUT the help of the holy Vampire Killer. I don't see someone who dislikes women warriors putting as strong a heroine as that in one of his games. I don't see how he fell short in any way.

On the flipside, I can see people saying had Shanoa been a Belmont relative wielding the Vampire Killer, that makes her incapable of fighting on her own will since she automatically possesses Belmont Warlord Chromosones and wields the whip so she's already at an advantage, which puts the blame on IGA or whoever for not having a strong independant female heroine that "does things on her own," etc.
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Bergaron on July 21, 2013, 02:15:35 AM
Errrrrr, Carmilla is a great female character, she founded the brotherhood of light along with Cornell and Zobek, was therefore a great warrior of light. Like Gabriel she sacrificed in order to have the power to fight evil forces, but as Gabriel finished corrupted by evil, as a character is not purely evil.

P. D. MS and Cox were to leave LOS subsaga but if Konami decides to continue it in a few years, a pre-LOS would be brutal, with the story of the 3 lord of shadows and the foundation of the brotherhood of light and Bernhard family.
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Abnormal Freak on July 21, 2013, 03:51:58 AM
Leave it to X to come into a joke thread and make a serious "woo, feminism!" post. Dude never misses an opportunity.

This is my kinda female warrior by the way:

(http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/screenshots/DragonsCrown/amazoni______a____________i_______psd_jpgcopy.jpg)
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Bergaron on July 21, 2013, 05:29:03 AM
Leave it to X to come into a joke thread and make a serious "woo, feminism!" post. Dude never misses an opportunity.

This is my kinda female warrior by the way:

(http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/screenshots/DragonsCrown/amazoni______a____________i_______psd_jpgcopy.jpg)

Bahhh child's play, This is a concept art the new Sonia Belmont,

(click to show/hide)

P.D The image is real...
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: X on July 21, 2013, 10:56:09 AM
Quote
Leave it to X to come into a joke thread and make a serious "woo, feminism!" post. Dude never misses an opportunity.

Haha! Tuxedo Mark called it out so I replied  ;D  And yes that amazon woman can dominate me any day  :o

Quote
Bahhh child's play, This is a concept art the new Sonia Belmont,

I don't think Sonia would be that big, but she would have some muscle mass/sporty body build. I think Sonya from from the recent Mortal Kombat game is a fair representation on how she would look:

http://thefightingconnection.com/sites/default/files/styles/640w/public/pictures/sonya-blade-mortal-kombat-2011-picture.png (http://thefightingconnection.com/sites/default/files/styles/640w/public/pictures/sonya-blade-mortal-kombat-2011-picture.png)
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: darkwzrd4 on July 21, 2013, 12:24:26 PM
Haha! Tuxedo Mark called it out so I replied  ;D  And yes that amazon woman can dominate me any day  :o

I don't think Sonia would be that big, but she would have some muscle mass/sporty body build. I think Sonya from from the recent Mortal Kombat game is a fair representation on how she would look:

http://thefightingconnection.com/sites/default/files/styles/640w/public/pictures/sonya-blade-mortal-kombat-2011-picture.png (http://thefightingconnection.com/sites/default/files/styles/640w/public/pictures/sonya-blade-mortal-kombat-2011-picture.png)
This. Sonya Blade from the recent Mortal Kombat game is probably the best example of the body type a female warrior should have. Strong, agile, yet still physically attractive. Those body building women in swim suits are not attractive. Bulging muscles on women don't look good at all. In fact, they're ugly.

Yes, Sonya Blade's (from MK) body type is definitely the best example of what a female warrior should have.
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Ratty on July 21, 2013, 05:51:02 PM
Those body building women in swim suits are not attractive. Bulging muscles on women don't look good at all. In fact, they're ugly.

Well that's just like, your opinion man. I submit to your consideration Corey Everson, bodybuilder who played "Atalanta" on Hercules the Legendary Journeys. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111122194941/hercxena/images/9/9c/Cory.jpg (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111122194941/hercxena/images/9/9c/Cory.jpg) http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8312/8046133938_6cfe63698c_z.jpg (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8312/8046133938_6cfe63698c_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: X on July 21, 2013, 06:20:29 PM
Quote
I submit to your consideration Corey Everson, bodybuilder who played "Atalanta" on Hercules the Legendary Journeys.

Actually after looking though various other photos of her, I can agree that she's not bad-looking. My only issue is that she doesn't have much in the way of chest-size. I feel that a more noticeable breasts would help to balance out her female figure a little more.

Quote
Also, the Amazons are mythological

Actually no, they were a real people. I've read about them in various history books that are not of the mythological setting. Here's a website that talks about them in some detail:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/previous_seasons/case_amazon/ (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/previous_seasons/case_amazon/)
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Mooning Freddy on July 21, 2013, 09:04:07 PM
This is my kinda female warrior by the way:

Oh lord. The proportions of that character's body are even more distorted than Kojima's depiction of Hector (and all the other male characters of CoS really).
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: VladCT on July 21, 2013, 10:24:37 PM
From jokes to srs bznss to...muscle girls. That's quite a thread drift there.
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Super Waffle on July 22, 2013, 04:54:09 AM
(http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/screenshots/DragonsCrown/amazoni______a____________i_______psd_jpgcopy.jpg)
I just noticed she wears the same silver chainmail bra type thing as Dark Angela.

http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/File:Snapshot20100822034256.jpg (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/File:Snapshot20100822034256.jpg)

Sadly that's all she has in common with Dark Angela.
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: X on July 22, 2013, 09:16:05 AM
Actually it looks more like a type of rounded scale mail. Kinda like what Red Sonja sports.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2rdkrqf.jpg (http://i45.tinypic.com/2rdkrqf.jpg)
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Bergaron on July 22, 2013, 09:57:44 AM
enough talk have at you!!!

https://www.google.es/search?q=woman+warrior+luis+royo&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=4GPtUbfEBunA7Aaa-YHIAQ&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=918 (https://www.google.es/search?q=woman+warrior+luis+royo&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=4GPtUbfEBunA7Aaa-YHIAQ&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=918)
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Pfil on July 22, 2013, 12:53:48 PM
Those Royos' drawing are awesome.

And about that girl with muscles, who might like her?
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Dark Nemesis on July 22, 2013, 01:52:00 PM
Quote
And about that girl with muscles, who might like her?


No one? She is so ugly...........
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Pfil on July 22, 2013, 03:03:44 PM
That's what I thought  :P
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: TheouAegis on July 22, 2013, 05:32:22 PM
This should totally be Shanoa in the next game/movie:
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=129945.0;attach=150788;image)
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Ratty on July 22, 2013, 07:34:08 PM
Actually it looks more like a type of rounded scale mail. Kinda like what Red Sonja sports.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2rdkrqf.jpg (http://i45.tinypic.com/2rdkrqf.jpg)

Ahh Red Sonja, she's a neat character but her "super powers because of rape/can only love a man who can beat her in fair combat" origin kind of ruins her. I have a funny suspicion that was a big reason she was (so I've heard) rebooted to be a descendant of the original Red Sonja without those trite constraints in the newer series.

Those Royos' drawing are awesome.

And about that girl with muscles, who might like her?

Which one? There were about 3 posted lol. But we're getting way off topic. I guess we should either get back on it or I'll have to split this into another thread and put it in the Off Topic subforum.
Title: Re: Sexism in Castlevania
Post by: Pfil on July 22, 2013, 09:55:53 PM
Oh, come on Ratty!  :P
Sometimes the funniest topics are the derailed ones! (I say this with all respect, of course).