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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Maedhros on August 04, 2013, 09:12:05 PM

Title: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Maedhros on August 04, 2013, 09:12:05 PM
Which one? The Best, the Good or the Bad Ending? Do we know?

Just finished it, I was bored as fuck and decided to play it on my PSP with a guide.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Ahasverus on August 04, 2013, 09:16:55 PM
The best, because Juste wasn't born yet and he personally gave him the bracelet.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Lelygax on August 04, 2013, 09:35:14 PM
Where is said that? I only remember of him saying that he is Simon's grandson, but I dont remember that his bracelet was a Simon's gift. Thats really interesting.

About the ending, Simon survived and overcome the curse or else Juste couldnt be born, even if he knew his wife and made a baby before dying from his curse, I doubt that Juste wouldnt mention that Simon's quest (no pun intended) ended in a tragic way.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: X on August 04, 2013, 10:12:05 PM
Juste also mentions how Simon told him the stories involving his curse and how saved himself from near-death. So Simon obviously lives to die of old age and not the curse that Dracula inflicted on him.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Maedhros on August 04, 2013, 10:29:58 PM
I see.

Well, getting the best ending is a bitch. I won't do it, it's simply not fun. Pretty bad decision, considering the game emphasys on exploration... the ending should been determined by the ammount of exploration you did or your level or something else...
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: The Puritan on August 04, 2013, 10:55:46 PM
The best, because Juste wasn't born yet and he personally gave him the bracelet.

My preferred ending is the one where Simon dies, but that'd still be awesome.

Juste also mentions how Simon told him the stories involving his curse and how saved himself from near-death. So Simon obviously lives to die of old age and not the curse that Dracula inflicted on him.

From the game:

Juste: Yes, I remember. The story of how my grandfather, Simon, gathered Dracula's remains and destroyed them to undo his curse.

I'll admit Simon could've lived to tell Juste personally, but the above could also mean he died saving the land and Juste learned the story years later (and after Simon had left a kid of his own, obviously).
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Lelygax on August 04, 2013, 10:57:11 PM
Fun fact: this method of different endings depending of how much time you spent in your quest, can be another thing that came from Metroid too :P
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Lelygax on August 04, 2013, 11:03:42 PM
I see.

Well, getting the best ending is a bitch. I won't do it, it's simply not fun. Pretty bad decision, considering the game emphasys on exploration... the ending should been determined by the ammount of exploration you did or your level or something else...

Fun fact: this method of different endings depending of how much time you spent in your quest, can be another thing that came from Metroid too :P

My preferred ending is the one where Simon dies, but that'd still be awesome.

From the game:

Juste: Yes, I remember. The story of how my grandfather, Simon, gathered Dracula's remains and destroyed them to undo his curse.

I'll admit Simon could've lived to tell Juste personally, but the above could also mean he died saving the land and Juste learned the story years later (and after Simon had left a kid of his own, obviously).

Only if we read it wrong on purpose, thats why:
"Simon, gathered Dracula's remains and destroyed them to undo his curse."
"...and destroyed them to undo his curse."
"...to undo his curse."
"...undo his curse." lol

So its clear that he freed himself from the curse in time. Thanks for posting the exact sentence here, since I've forgot it.  :P
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: A-Yty on August 05, 2013, 05:30:08 AM
I don't think it was mentioned specifically that Juste met Simon. I think it could have been either way; someone else could have given him the bracelet and..well, everyone knows the story of Simon, since he's the most well known Belmont. Anyone could have told him that story.

He could have had a wife and a baby by the time SQ happened. It would make the most sense: there was a seven year gap between CV and SQ. Gotta secure that Belmont bloodline as quickly as possibly, after all.

I think the curse's nature is essential; the way I understand it was diferent from DC/CoD; it was targeted at Simon instead of the whole land. Dracula's body parts enabled his minions being around, but it wasn't like in CoD, where people were driven to evil to "obliterate themselves". So, if Simon did lift the curse, like Juste said, it has to mean he survived. Otherwise he would have failed in lifting the curse, which would have meant it killed him.

Of course you could interpret "succumbing to his wounds" as wounds from physical battles against Dracula & Co.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Maedhros on August 05, 2013, 08:12:25 AM
The city before Castlevania doesn't have people, except for a lady in the last house that wants to live with you, forever... couldn't that be that people have killed themselves there? Or did they just fleed?
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Nagumo on August 05, 2013, 09:08:58 AM
So its clear that he freed himself from the curse in time. Thanks for posting the exact sentence here, since I've forgot it.  :P

Actually, Simon breaks the curse in all endings. In one of them he happens to die of his wounds inflicted by the curse. So this sentence doesn't indicate anything either way.  :P

Personally, I think the Nighttime ending is the one that happend. It can't be the Midday ending because Dracula comes back in that one, and the HoD opening seems to deny that this happend. I guess it's a toss up between Daytime and Nighttime. However, Castlevania usually tends to go with the happy endings.           
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: A-Yty on August 05, 2013, 09:13:08 AM
My interpretation is that old lady was the only remaining survivor of a village Dracula destroyed. Her whole family and friends were killed. She barricaded herself inside the building, paralyzed by trauma and survivor guilt.

On a side note, that town and that lady are one of the creepiest things in Castlevania I can think of - whatever the explonation is. It really deserved a theme of its own. Or even better - no music. Just silence. Perfect setting for the final battle. That is, a final battle more climactic than a Dracula who just flies in a circle rapidly and throws occasional scythes.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Pfil on August 05, 2013, 07:36:07 PM
I always liked to think that the ending when Simon dies is the canonical one, but that wouldn't make sense in the storyline, I guess. I can't remember now but someone explained it some time ago.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: uzo on August 06, 2013, 12:07:00 PM
We have no idea if SImon had a son, or got his wife pregnant, prior to the events of Castlevania II, or Castlevania I for that matter.

The issue that could be stated however is not simply conception, furthering the bloodline, but training. We don't know the Belmont training rituals and for that matter how much involvement the current heir has in that process.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: A-Yty on August 06, 2013, 12:24:33 PM
The whole family was probably privy to the training methods. Which brings up the notably absent mentions of siblings in any context. I always felt that was strange. Then again, even though they were never mentioned, doesn't mean they didn't exist. It's not like they ever talk about Jesus' brother Steve or whatnot.

 I think it's rare if ever that any Belmont is specifically mentioned being the only child. Not even Solieyu, even though it's almost certain he is. Anyway, even if Simon did die, there could have been brothers or sisters to train the kid. Or someone from the Belmont ally families (DaNasty etc.).

Logic says there simply had to have been numerous children for any Belmont capable of procreation. And just to make things even safer, they should be living separately, seeing as how Dracula or his allies would constantly be trying to assassinate them.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: A-Yty on August 06, 2013, 12:28:10 PM
Tl;dr: I think the time is ripe to finally start shedding some official canon light into the history of the Belmonts. They're the protagonists, but in the end, we don't know much anything about them. It was ok for 26+ years, but I'm personally ready for a little change in that department.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Ahasverus on August 06, 2013, 01:52:16 PM
Tl;dr: I think the time is ripe to finally start shedding some official canon light into the history of the Belmonts. They're the protagonists, but in the end, we don't know much anything about them. It was ok for 26+ years, but I'm personally ready for a little change in that department.
That's IGA for you  :P not gonna happen, he doesn't even know what to do with his own stories. I think the old canon lost any chance of good storytelling looong ago.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: A-Yty on August 06, 2013, 01:59:57 PM
That's IGA for you  :P not gonna happen, he doesn't even know what to do with his own stories. I think the old canon lost any chance of good storytelling looong ago.

No, that's Konami for you. Before IGA, the background information was just as scarce. Even more so, actually.

And it's not even a flat out flaw, actually. Castlevania has simply stuck to that style of keeping baddies and heroes straightforward. A product of the time when video game characters didn't need that much details. It hasn't been terribly jarring, because lots of things in CV have been left ambiguous or for the imagination. And let's not forget all the tidbits the original, Japanese materials contain. The good side is it's better to have blank spots to fill than smudged details to constantly cross over *looks at Metal Gear*

Anyway. Now, especially now, when the original canon is an endangered species, I wouldn't mind knowing more relatable stuff about the characters. We know almost too much about Gabriel and all too little about Mathias and the Belmonts.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Ahasverus on August 06, 2013, 02:08:25 PM
No, that's Konami for you. Before IGA, the background information was just as scarce. Even more so, actually.

And it's not even a flaw, actually. Castlevania has simply stuck to that style of keeping baddies and heroes straightforward. A product of the time when video game characters didn't need that much details. It hasn't been jarring, because lots of things in CV have been left ambiguous or for the imagination.
Yeah I know about the latter (The foremer I don't, as Suikoden, Silent Hill and Metal Gear have very solid canons) that's what I've been saying lately (and have been bashed for) a return to the old timeline in a modern approach (storytelling etc) would not work beacsue it was a product of a different time and you can't make a long litterary story one game when its sequel is a 15 years old 16 bit game or whatever.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: A-Yty on August 06, 2013, 02:10:08 PM
Metal Gear has a solid canon because it is in constant motion.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Ahasverus on August 06, 2013, 02:42:15 PM
Metal Gear has a solid canon because it is in constant motion.
Which series has had more games? That's no excuse.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: A-Yty on August 06, 2013, 02:44:51 PM
I'm not sure I get your point. My point was MGS may have a coherent canon, but it's only because of a ludicrous amount of retcons.

Oh, and also one guy writing it from start to this day.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Ahasverus on August 06, 2013, 03:05:59 PM
I'm not sure I get your point. My point was MGS may have a coherent canon, but it's only because of a ludicrous amount of retcons.

Oh, and also one guy writing it from start to this day.
oh that's ok  :) I thought you meant MGS is solid (lol) because games were constantly released. Sorry.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Maedhros on August 06, 2013, 08:59:43 PM
Which series has had more games? That's no excuse.
MGS isn't a game that was made for arcade/replaybility. Very different approachs, story is SECONDARY in Castlevania. And the IGA that you hate actually started the trend of including more story on the game that anyone before him.

It's pretty bad anyway. LoS isn't any better too. Pretty bad story.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Danial on August 07, 2013, 10:12:55 PM
Fun story:

I didn't think much about the endings of CV2 at the time.  I just assumed the best ending was the true ending.  It was CV4 that actually made me reconsider what really happened.  The game was numbered as a continuation instead of a remake, and the intro stated that  a hundred years had passed and Simon would once again have to stop Dracula.  This made me think that Simon had actually died fighting Dracula in CV2, and somehow he had also been resurrected a hundred years later to stop Dracula again.

This sedemented in my mind that Simon was the most badass Belmont and would even come back from the dead to finish the job.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Lelygax on August 08, 2013, 02:10:27 AM
This sedemented in my mind that Simon was the most badass Belmont and would even come back from the dead to finish the job.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2Fe%2Fe0%2FSimon_wraith.PNG&hash=55d2ce4f40374b07c8220475be31a1cd510839b7)

This really explains a lot...  :rollseyes:
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Pfil on August 08, 2013, 07:54:46 PM
Really? I don't remember about that!

Simon officially resurrected and came back to life as a zombie?
Which game is it from?
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: crisis on August 08, 2013, 07:57:38 PM
Harmony of Dissonance, though I strongly doubt that's Simon's resurrected skeleton. It's just a spirit that acts like him, to mock Juste.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: beingthehero on August 08, 2013, 07:59:24 PM
The Simon Wraiths (aka "Gates of Death" - it's a Japanese pun) have been part of the series since CV3 and are joke characters.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Pfil on August 08, 2013, 08:06:51 PM
I see.
But now I can't be sure... :(
Simon's holy memory has been profaned  :P
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Lelygax on August 08, 2013, 08:46:55 PM
I see.
But now I can't be sure... :(
Simon's holy memory has been profaned  :P

I will tell you the entire story in my own way:

They called it "Shimon" in the japanese CV3, its a pun for Simon. When they translated and localized the game for the US, they doesnt knew about that and so literally translated the name, that means "Gates of Death".

They tried to fix this giving a more coherent name in HoD calling him "Simon Wraith". They did a splendid job in HoDespair since they changed it to "Hellmont", while this loses the Simon connection, it does a good job to keep the pun alive.
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Pfil on August 08, 2013, 11:04:39 PM
I understand now, thanks!
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Lelygax on August 10, 2013, 11:31:34 PM
Thats the canonical ending:

Castlevania - A Miserable Little Joke of SECRETS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5a2cjNyQ8o#)
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Maedhros on August 10, 2013, 11:50:03 PM
^ The music at the end of this video is from Mother series, I'm almost sure. So good! One of the best RPG's I've played in my life (2 and 3 at least, 1 aged really bad)
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: X on August 11, 2013, 12:39:35 AM
HaHa! When it comes to certain games I know exactly how that hawk feels. The Duck Hunt dog always pissed me off whenever it laughed at my missing all the ducks and couldn't shoot him!! He's on my list...
Title: Re: Canonical Simon's Quest ending
Post by: Lelygax on August 11, 2013, 01:09:06 AM
I've ever imagined that the "graveyard duck" would be a duck from duck hunt for some random reason lol

Here is the first part:
Ninja Gaiden - When Nature Flips Out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haZiLLZmz48#)