Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Pfil on August 14, 2013, 03:10:10 AM
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Due to some recent talk in another thread, I've been really surprised to find out there's many CV fans who don't hold up so dearly to SCV4. I've always thought it was the number 1 game in popularity, but once someone stated otherwise, many fans (including me) came after stating that, though they like it, they don't consider it to be so good as many people says.
So, do you think it is overrated?
Or, on the contrary, this kind of talk about SCV4 bothers you?
Let the fun begin!
Edit: I corrected a typing error in the title.
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No, it's not overrated. If it's not the very best CV game, then it's very near the top of the pile. No game in the series has matched the juicy atmosphere, and few have rivalled the soundtrack. The controls are tight, and they're significantly improved over their predecessors, although in a way that feels like a natural evolution for the series. The graphics are dark and detailed. The visual style is more realistic than previous entries, but this also feels like a natural evolution. Thirty-two years (give or take) after its release it remains as perfectly playable as the day it came out. That's phenomenal, especially considering it was among the first SNES games.
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Well, I don't think it is overrated, I was just surprised that so many people don't think it's the best.
I thought it was the holy grail of the franchise.
If you ask me to deliver an opinion not based in my personal CV ranking, I would say that it features unique atmosphere, great look, very dark and gothic, and an excellent gameplay.
About the music, I would say that it is different from the almost all the rest of the franchise, yet very, very good. I'd venture saying that it is unique, also. I didn't found any other soundtrack to contain that thick sense of atmosphere and gothic horror mixed with beautiful melodies.
That said, in my personal preferences I have more appreciation for almost all MetroidVanias, Simon's Quest, Rondo of Blood, and in ClassicVanias I personally prefer CV3, Bloodlines, Chronicles and Rebirth.
So, I wouldn't say I don't like it, because every Castlevania game is worth a lot and I love them all (with a few obvious exceptions).
But it doesn't rank very high in my personal tastes for CV (it does rank high, however, in my all-time videogames preferences).
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Please mods, can you move this topic?
I've just realized I created it in the wrong section! :P
Thanks! :)
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Please mods, can you move this topic?
I've just realized I created it in the wrong section! :P
Thanks! :)
Done.
Personally, I think the term "overrated" is a bit tricky. Is it the best game in the series? No. Is it the best Classicvania? Not in my opinion.
But I do think it's a wonderful game that has aged extremely well, and it's probably the most accessible Classicvania. Because the uncommon tweaks to controls and level design made it easier than others in the series, but it still provides a good challenge. This has led to it being more widely praised than more rigorous but rewarding games in the series, like Castlevania 3.
I'd say it's more a case of most other Classicvanias being underrated because many casual observers don't appreciate the intense, need-to-memorize gameplay of most of them or, worse, mistake their carefully crafted difficulty for bad design.
PS- On the topic of non-series fans complaining about the design. Does all the complaining about Classivania jumping annoy anyone else? Not being able to change your jump mid-air is part of the challenge! And so is anticipating and properly whipping or dodging bats and meduas when you're on a ledge. Sheesh I've lost count how many times I've seen that brought up as a "flaw" of the older games. If you want a game that plays like Mario or Megaman, play one of those, but please don't assert as fact that every platformer not exactly like them is inferior.
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It deserves all the praise it gets.
Best in the series? Perhaps not.
The best Classicvania? You bet your hilt it is.
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Personally, I think the term "overrated" is a bit tricky. Is it the best game in the series? No. Is it the best Classicvania? Not in my opinion.
But I do think it's a wonderful game that has aged extremely well, and it's probably the most accessible Classicvania. Because the uncommon tweaks to controls and level design made it easier than others in the series, but it still provides a good challenge. This has led to it being more widely praised than more rigorous but rewarding games in the series, like Castlevania 3.
I'd say it's more a case of most other Classicvanias being underrated because many casual observers don't appreciate the intense, need-to-memorize gameplay of most of them or, worse, mistake their carefully crafted difficulty for bad design.
Can't really put it any better than this. Do I hail it as "ZOMG BEST CLASSICVANIA 5EVAH!"? No. Would I recommend people to start with this? Yes. Of course, I'd also recommend them to not rely on the 8-way whipping.
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Please mods, can you move this topic?
I've just realized I created it in the wrong section! :P
Thanks! :)
Done.
EDIT:
Haha wow, it appears Ratty and I both moved the topic. Two mods moderating the same thing... never seen that before! :P
Though to be fair, Ratty beat me to it.
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Anyway, I've always held SCV4 in high regard. The killer atmosphere never gets old for me. Really, my only true criticism of the game is it's way too easy for a Castlevania game... but that doesn't mean it can't be really fun and immersive.
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To say it is good is sort of redundant, I believe, as all (with perhaps the exception of one Simon's Quest, but I do not think that we are discussing that one in particular here) classicvanias are generally exemplars of good and careful game design (i.e. they are rather difficult, make no mistake, but they are also rather rarely punishing, at least not too much so).
How does it fare in comparison to other classicvanias, though? Note, this is strictly my perspective on things. Your mileage may vary.
Graphically, it is the series' first and last venture into gothic realism (earlier games simply couldn't afford the realism part, whereas the latter didn't bother to). This has, as other posters in the thread have pointed out, resulted in a dark, almost horror-like atmosphere (and this was, it seems to me, completely intentional, given the attention to detail that was present in the graphics). Music seems to have been designed to complement this, and it was done so rather masterfully (though this was, perhaps, result of the limitation SNES posed to composers), as the music simultaneously maintains its atmospheric qualities while still being a memorable chiptune-like.
The result of this synthesis of graphics and music was a highly developed atmosphere (a bit redundant of me, certainly there were not many other things such work could result in?). In relation to the rest of series, it presented the qualitatively highest development of the classicvania (NB: By this, I mean the first four games, rather than what followed after SCV4) formula of atmosphere. It seems to me that it maintained all the intentional B-horror flick cheesiness that its predecessors possessed while simultaneously adding elements of actual horror (within reason, of course, as you simply cannot have Kubrick on the SNES).
Aesthetically, therefore, it seems to be the best of the classicvanias. However, we mustn't forget that there exists one key aesthetical component of video games that I haven't mentioned: Gameplay.
Therein lies SCV4's largest successes and its largest failings.
I think that there exists a general consensus among CV fans that SCV4 is the easiest of all classicvanias. To me it seems that this is born of two elements: How the game introduces you to its functioning and how the game plays in general.
The way the game starts (difficulty wise) is perfect: Rather than being than requiring that you spill blood and sweat getting used to how it plays, the game allows you to get adjusted to it (this trait is reminiscent of other SNES games, namely Mega Man X and Super Metroid, indicating it was part - perhaps even the genesis - of this shift in game making philosophy). In my opinion (though quite possibly solely in it), it allows this lack of difficulty to go on for a bit too long (maybe even longer than intended), though it certainly does pick it up later. Overall, I'd argue this was a positive development.
Another positive development is the controls. Gone are the clunky controls and death-bringing jumps, and instead they are replaced with pinpoint controls that are almost universally praised. No further comments seem necessary here.
There does exist, however, an element that creates rather large imbalance in the game. The whip.
Allow me to make myself clear here: I do not dislike the whip mechanics as such. They are quite the interesting mechanics and Konami obviously put quite a bit of effort into them. I dislike the whip mechanics in relation to other parts of gameplay.
Namely, the subweapons. There seems to be a general trend (from what I've noticed, anyway, by playing the game and seeing others let's play it) that you rarely, if ever, have to use the subweapons. This is because the whip is simply too versatile.
Think about it: It can attack in any direction you want it to (with more than decent range!), it can block attacks, it deals more damage than most subweapons, it helps you get about the levels, if I recall correctly it can stun enemies, you can mess around with it if you're bored... I mean, what doesn't the whip do?
Let's compare the whip to the whip of previous games: There, the whip had pretty short range, limited moveset (you could only attack forwards), it couldn't block anything (unless you count attacking the projectiles), etc. It is exactly this sort of limitation that rendered the subweapons meaningful. I mean sure, it still was your primary weapon, but a rather flawed one.
In SCV4 I'd go as far as to argue that the whip simply deals far too much damage, so much in fact that you can tank quite a few of the bosses (admittedly not all of them, and the tankable ones generally limit themselves to the first couple of levels, but since bosses are supposed to be the test of all you learned of the gameplay, this isn't necessarily good design). Essentially, the whip is Mary Sue levels of overpowered.
How does this affect the gameplay in general? It does certainly make it a lot easier, however it didn't make it any less enjoyable for me - and that is the most important factor, I suppose.
Another slightly negative thing I can think of is the removal of alternate paths and characters from the previous game. The game did substitute with a metric ton of levels, though, but that does little to soothe the lost replayability. However, due to how fun the game is, it actually manages to compensate that in another form, so I don't think any less of it for that.
To summarize, the game presents two steps forward and one back from the previous games. It is the best of the classicvanias (and here I mean classicvanias including the games that came after SCV4), without a single doubt in my mind. Is it the best Castlevania ever? I can only offer doubt there. The metroidvania shift brought some quality games with it, however those games share a different core aesthetic than classicvanias (though they have more in common with each other than with the latest shift in the series) making them rather difficult to compare.
Is the game overrated? Slightly, I think (quite possibly due to AVGN's review, and its overall greater accessibility to your average player - and there I include myself - among other things), but not too much.
So yeah a good game. Got a little carried away writing a post about it, though, so sorry about that.
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I think sc4 is a great game. but i think it gets way too much credit for what amounts to konami abandoning innovations sc4 brought. people gawk over it while for ex, i think bloodlines looks prettier. its soooort of overrated, but with good reason
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I think it is the absolute best game of the series and one of the best games of all time in general. There is no game I have gone back to and played as much. Everything is top knotch.
It was the first CV to feature the new mechanic of multi-directional whipping. This was a superb revolution in the game play. There were some imbalances because this had never been done. It should have been a mechanic that stuck in the series, as should the crouch walking and whip swinging. If these mechanics would have continued they would have had time to develop and we would have seen a more balanced game in the long run. For that reason, the slight imbalance is forgivable.
IMO the series went backwards with the rondo game play which felt stiff and limited. It also went backwards with the rondo graphics which looked cartoony and totally took away from the horror of the game. Bloodlines was good but still lacked in gameplay and graphics compared to SCV4.
I honestly think that no developer has been able to match what Treasure did with CV4. Not even close. And this games music is also miles above all the rest.
It is ridiculous and a complete shame that this games style was not adopted into the other games. I think it's because no other developer could pull it off even if they tried.
Is CV4 overrated? Certainly not. I believe that it is underrated.
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It deserves all the praise it gets.
Best in the series? Perhaps not.
The best Classicvania? You bet your hilt it is.
I agree with pretty much everything here.^^^
I think it deserves all the praise it gets and then some.
The game may not be the best CV game ever, but it definitely is the best classicvania in my opinion.
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IMO, Castlevania IV is second-to-none in terms of atmosphere.
For me personally, it also has the best soundtrack in the series. While the likes of Symphony and Lament also have an outstanding soundtrack, and much better production quality, I feel the Castlevania IV score is much more cohesive and perfectly complements the game atmosphere. Belmont's Revenge comes in a close second.
While Castlevania IV is relatively easy and the mechanics 'broken' for some with the multi-directional whipping, it glides effortlessly along for it. You can dispatch enemies with cool aplomb without breaking stride, and grapple whip points for smooth swinging.
The game just oozes class. Even something so simple as the map screen is done beautifully.
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I think it's one of the best gateway Castlevania games. Whenever someone ask's "I've never played a Castlevania before, what should I start with?" I alway recommend SCV4 before anything else because of it's accessibility, which can be seen as a weakness to some. Everything about the game feels well done (ok maybe the whip flailing was a little broken) from the atmosphere to the visuals at the time, the controls and most certainly the music, which still holds up very well to this day.
So yeah it deserves the praise it gets.
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I save my Subweapon hearts for the boss battles. That's when the subweapons shine.
TripleShot Boomerang annihilates Rowdain, Medusa, the Orphic Vipers, Puwexyl, and Koranot. Just litter the screen with boomerangs. :D
The Whip does a good job against flying bosses like Zapf Bat and Gaibon.
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I hold it in high regards simply because that 8-directional whip. That element along with the gorgeous graphics makes the most solid in the classicvanias. And Simon is capable of being Tarzan of Castles as well so what's not to like about that? ;D
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I hold on to my cross until a get a triple cross. Then I just destroy for the rest of the game. It's usually level traps later in the game that end up killing me a few times. I've come really close to beating it on 1 life. Some day...
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Everything I want to say about this game has already been said, but I'll say it anyways. Yes, this game is THAT good, is how I feel about it. Do I feel it's underrated? Yes, by those who're new to the series since SotN onward, although some if not all would appreciate SCV4 as the best of all the classicvania. Is it overrated? Not in my book. It was simply made very well at the time in the SNES' early career. Today I can still pop that sucker into my SNES and play it from beginning to end without feeling bored even though I've beaten it hundreds of times. The music, graphics, gameplay, sounds, stages, etc. all of it was done right the very first time. Is it the easiest out of all the classicvania. Yes, but that doesn't concern me in the slightest. This game introduced the multi-directional whipping so it's completely understandable if the whip is overpowered or what-not. It was the first time for that and no way can I fault it. I would also recommend this game to anyone who's never played a classicvania once in their life. Even though I use the whip most frequently throughout the game I still find a use for the sub-weapons. Mine's the Axe. get an axe, triple shot and max out my hearts and I'm ready to cut mean wake through my foes. It's also very handy in the latter half of the clock tower stage since the whip is used for grappling the ascending hooks.
Another slightly negative thing I can think of is the removal of alternate paths and characters from the previous game.
This doesn't bother me in the slightest because SCV4 is about Simon's trek to Castlevania and he was alone when he did it. Simon's always been the solitary Belmont vampire hunter throughout the entire series. It's to be somewhat expected of him. The alternate paths would have added greatly to the game's replay value but I also like a game where I can go through every single awesome stage in one go. There are times where I'd like to have this experience with CV III. Maybe someday...
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I'll say the same thing that I said before and started this conversation:
I prefer Dracula X for SNES over SCV IV.
I've my motives, since it was my first CV game, it had and still has a special meaning to me, also I like the way these subs works and the difficulty would be right if it was a "Hard Mode". This game have some flaws, but have some pros.
IMHO they did a control so good in SCV IV, that they couldnt research how to do challenge at par with it, maybe thats why it doesnt is one of my favs (I still like it).
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Best CV ever? No.
Best Classicvania? Yes.
It nailed everything that you want in a CV. It had great area design which was enhanced by the music. Other games like SotN and LoI had great music too, but they didn't enhance the atmosphere like in SCV4 (exception being the Ghostly Theater in LoI). Not to mention that the Treasury level was pure eye candy (the music in the area is the only one that I didn't like and failed to enhance the atmosphere of that area).
In terms of difficultly, the game started out easy and gradually got harder in a logical progression. That is until you reach the actual castle where the enemies get stronger, which is understandable. When I first got to stage 6 (the first stage that is actually inside the castle), I noticed a significant spike in difficulty. It's not as difficult as CV3, but it's still rewarding the first time you beat the game. And, let's not forget that after you beat the game, you get to play through the game on a harder difficulty.
As for the whip, I have no problem with it being multi-directional. Overpowered in terms of damage? I could see that a little. It does seem to eliminate the need for most of the sub-weapons, but to abandon the concept for the other games, that should not have been done. The only mistake that was made with the whip in my opinion is that they gave it too much reach with the second power up, which doubled its range and upped the attack strength. All that really needed to be done was debuff the that second power up in future games so that the length only increased by 50% instead of 100%. Shorter reach = greater need for sub-weapons for the axe, dagger, and boomerang. The stopwatch is always useful and fire bomb (holy water) has never widely useful except on certain situations (my opinion).
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Really if you think about it, there's nothing wrong with the sub weapons being a little less useful. Theres more incentive to level your sub weapon up. CV4 could should have had a higher difficulty, but not by much.
The fact that Simon is the only Belmont who realized he can whip up and down is just dumb. It makes no logical sense that a nimble whip would only be able to strike directly forward. That contradicts the whole point of what a whip is.
Watch how someone fights with a Chinese chain whip. CV4 made huge progress that should have set new standards. Instead every game that followed took steps backwards until the franchise went in whole other direction with the metriodvanias, which I still feel was the wrong direction.
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I kind of understand your side, a thing that was lost in metroidvanias is that in classicvanias almost never you could flee from enemies, while in metroidvanias you can do it at the moment that you acquire a second jump onwards in most parts.
Noticing these things and looking at the 2 sides of the coin seems to be the best way to understand how to do a better game.
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I honestly think that no developer has been able to match what Treasure did with CV4. Not even close. And this games music is also miles above all the rest.
Treasure, uh, didn't make it. I think maybe one of the guys who went on to form Treasure did something on the game; think he was a programmer, might have been the main whip programmer, I don't remember.
Anyway, if the multi-direction whipping breaks the game, why is it you never hear complaints of double jumping and mid-air direction changing breaking SOTN, et al.? I suppose you could say "because there's no pitfalls or hard jumping," but how is that not also considered a broken mechanic?
Well, it's not, so fuck all y'allz' bullshit.
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I totally think it does. It's not my favorite of the series for nothing.
I'm not going to touch on any of the classic reasons it's so loved (dat atmosphere, dat music, etc.), but I'm noticing a lot of complaining about the whip. While the points are by no means false, there's a certain degree of redundancy in them. The whip's overpowered and the subweapons are underpowered; but if the whip was the same as before CVIV, with the subweapons getting a little more limelight, then it would be a matter of the subweapons being more powerful than your main weapon.
And that's really what it is. Your main weapon. I don't understand why it's a quality-affecting factor for the centuries-old family whip (which has been imbued with power and strengthened many times over) to, I dunno, live up to its name? I mean if the Vampire Killer is made to have great advantage and power over the LORD of all these monsters, why is it a problem if the lesser creatures succumb to it far more easily?
And I have a problem with saying that the 8-directional aiming should not be relied on. It's there for a reason, and if I had to fight hordes of monsters and choose between a timelessly good ranged weapon that can easily cover all my blind spots, or a boomerang/flask of water/knife/etc...I'm gonna go with the damn whip. It just makes sense. It's a little unfair to suggest not to use something because your gameplay style doesn't suit it, IMO.
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Treasure, uh, didn't make it. I think maybe one of the guys who went on to form Treasure did something on the game; think he was a programmer, might have been the main whip programmer, I don't remember.
Anyway, if the multi-direction whipping breaks the game, why is it you never hear complaints of double jumping and mid-air direction changing breaking SOTN, et al.? I suppose you could say "because there's no pitfalls or hard jumping," but how is that not also considered a broken mechanic?
Well, it's not, so fuck all y'allz' bullshit.
They're two totally different game genres (linear/level based action and exploration adventure respectively) that just happen to share the same setting and continuity. That's like saying "Well if walking, running and jumping mechanics are essential to the original Super Mario Bros. games, how come they drive cars in the Kart series? Check and mate."
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It deserves all the praise it gets.
Best in the series? Perhaps not.
The best Classicvania? You bet your hilt it is.
Nope.
Both Rondo and CVIII are better than it. No one will convince me otherwise.
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I was thinking about how to make the sub weapons more useful and I thought of this:
Make the whip the most versatile, yet weakest weapon and by making enemies either stronger and smarter. The whip can still swing eight directions and brandish, but it can't block projectiles in brandish mode. The enemies take more hits or require different strategies to defeat , like skeletons taking three, or the Axe Armors being protected from the whip while their shields are up.
As for my thoughts, I think a lot of the additions to the classicvania formula were nice, but could have used more planning. I don't know, just go watch Egoraptor's Seqeulitis on CV1 vs SCV4.
Other than that, you know the same old song and dance. DAT-MUSIC DAT-ATMOSPHERE DAT-GRAPHICS-DAT SIMON!
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Anyway, if the multi-direction whipping breaks the game, why is it you never hear complaints of double jumping and mid-air direction changing breaking SOTN, et al.? I suppose you could say "because there's no pitfalls or hard jumping," but how is that not also considered a broken mechanic?
Well, it's not, so fuck all y'allz' bullshit.
Thats for me, Montoya or both?
but it can't block projectiles in brandish mode.
So its better make it even weaker when brandishing and make it still block, since brandishing was made for block attacks.
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I agree that SCV4 does have, indeed, the best atmosphere of the series. So many little details that it's still astounds me every time I play. The music compliments the game really well too (even though I don't like it that much, something to do with the instruments used I guess).
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Actually, Lelygax scratch that. I was just thinking out loud about it, lawl.
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Due to some recent talk in another thread, I've been really surprised to find out there's many CV fans who don't hold up so dearly to SCV4. I've always thought it was the number 1 game in popularity,
So, do you think it is overrated?
Or, on the contrary, this kind of talk about SCV4 bothers you?
Let the fun begin!
Edit: I corrected a typing error in the title.
Honestly It's SOTN that I always hear about. Besides here every where else is a metroidvania we want Alucard and nothing but Alucard circlefest it's annoying as hell -_- There is more to cv than Alucard and the MV formula >:(
"oh hey you know what would be cool a HD remake of SOTN"
"Everyone knows that we want Alucard back he's the main character of the series"
"I wish we had an IGA MV game again"
It's this kind of Stigma that makes me think SOTN and the mv formula is overrated(this is not my main reason for preferring classic over mv just to kind of make that clear :) ) , but this is about SCV:IV so I'll just try to stick to that alone. No I don't think it's overrated In fact I think it's earned it's right to be praised it's aged very well the controls are very fluid I hold the music as one of the Snes staples among final fantasy IV, tales of phantasia,and megaman x and many more . Heck right next to megaman X1 this is my favorite SNES game when I talk to my friends about the SNES one of them say LoZ:ALttP or even Donkey kong country me SCV:IV :)
It's good but not everything is all sunshine and daisies.
It's not a push over it is a cv game just abit easy for a cv game if that makes sense. My main problem is the falling stairs circle blade part coming from beneath you and I did use sub-weapons in this game maybe less than others in the series but I did use them. Also the eight way whipping is abit overpowered but it's never been that much of a negative to me but I think one way direction whipping would have made the game more of a challenge.
I think it's not a game one could really hate it's a well polished cartridge simple as that. Even a person who does not like it could find at least one aspect that flows with them
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I think the reason you never hear people complain about the double jump or mid air direction change in SOTN is because SOTN is not really about the enemy battles or level designs as much as a game like SCV4 is. There are so many abilities you attain in SOTN that it doesn't really make a difference at a certain point. The enemies and levels in the game are not challenging to begin with. So it's pretty difficult to say if any one certain ability is imbalanced in that game. It deals more with exploration than it does with combat details. Who is going to complain about a double jump when you can turn into a bat and fly?
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No way is SCV4 overrated. Everyone's talked about the atmosphere and music which goes without saying. It's one of the few 2D games that I've always found to be very immersive. You get a sense of how dark, foreboding and grimy the world is. The game is a bit easy but I don't think it's easier than Rondo.
But let's talk turkey. SCV4 is truly deserving of the "Super" in the title because the game is EPIC in a way not many other CV games are. Just look at the map screen and the terrain you're traversing. It's a long time before you even get to the castle itself. It's almost like they wanted to make it seem like a reward just getting to the castle at all and give you a sense of how big Dracula's estate is by making it such a long time before you get there.
THe game does a great job of slowly building up the intensity. By the time you get to Stage V, you've already been through quite a bit and the atmosphere of that stage, from the beginning to the end when you finally walk right up to death's door, is INTENSE! They then dial it down a little for a stage or two, but build it back up and by the time you get to Stage VIII, your nerves could be shot. SCV4 is a high water mark of the series in terms of pacing.
There are a lot of "Holy Shit!" moments in this game, from the first time you play through the Rotating Dungeon, Stage V as a whole, the chandeliers in Stage VI, the Bat Bridge in Stage B, the Room Of Close Associates, and finally the candles lighting themselves after the (incredible) Death fight, and that creepy-ass music that accompanies it. There are more but these were always my favorites and thinking about it now just makes me realize how amazing the game really is.
As far as the 8-way whip is concerned, I think that was a last minute addition to the game. If you look at the way the game was designed, enemy placement, etc, the whip breaks a lot of it, especially in the earlier stages, which makes me think they put that in after most of the game was done.
I played this when it came out, and I have to say, it was amazing to see this game in action in big beautiful 16-bit after playing the earlier games. The game just seemed HUGE at the time, even compared to CV3. They just seemed to have so many great ideas, some of which took advantage of the new hardware, which was par for the course for Konami back then. Every game seemed better than the last and for a 1st gen 16-bit game, this one has aged really well like folks have said.
TL;DR SCV4 isn't overrated in the least, it deserves the accolades it gets even if just because of the atmosphere, pacing, and design.
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The game is awesome and it did pretty much everything right. I'm a big believer in adding a lot of neat details to very game to make it more interesting ad fun. Super Castlevania (I drop the IV since it's made up) is dripping with cool details from the reactive bridge tiles in stage 2 to the ominous torches leading to Dracula's Lair.
I will agree with the analysis that the 8-way whip breaks certain things and was probably added later in the game's development. However, it's just so damn fun! And they've never been able to do anything nearly as awesome in any other game since. Also, I think the problem with the 8-way whip isn't the mechanic itself just the large size of the sprites.
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The 8 way whipping was great and it should have been further developed in later titles. I can think of 2 solutions to the imbalance off of the top of my head. 1: program the whip to not be able to whip through walls. This would eliminate the problem of being able to spam enemies before they have a chance to attack you. 2: give the enemies more abilities and or strength. I would like to see most enemies have 2 or 3 types of attacking methods as opposed to one.
Being able to attack through walls is super unrealistic and cheap if you think about it.
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Montoya, I've never asked you about that but we can expect to see this mechanic in your game? :)
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I can't say anything that hasn't already been said on this topic.
But Ratty has resumed it better in my opinion.
It's not a case of SCV4 being overrated. It's that other ClassicVania games are too underrated.
I don't consider SCV4 to be the best Castlevania, but it's sure an excellent game that never ages.
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I feel like I'm somewhat responsible for this thread haha.
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It's not a case of SCV4 being overrated. It's that other ClassicVania games are too underrated.
Or maybe when held up to those other, supposed 'under-rated' games, Castlevania IV just does things better. That's not necessarily putting down, or devaluing the others. I don't think any less of the original. The 16-bit at the time really was a jump up though. Konami were on top of their game, SNES-era, even that early on after Gradius 3.
I mean, when fans talk about their favourite series stages, I'd happily be picking four or five for the top of my list, all from this game. Forest of Monsters/Swamp, Library, Stage V, Stage B/Room of Close Associates . .. they are that good. Same if I were picking tracks of music.
There's just so much of this game done so well.
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Montoya, I've never asked you about that but we can expect to see this mechanic in your game? :)
The Rise of Castlevania will feature 8-directional whipping. But I will say that this thread has got me thinking about how we are going about it a lot.
ROC will sport a combination of many awesome mechanics from CV games that have never been in one game all at the same time.
Familiar enemies will have new tricks up their sleeves as well.
We will be very focused on balance and difficulty. This is one of the many things that I think Mig did a wonderful job at with Lecarde Chronicles.
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Or maybe when held up to those other, supposed 'under-rated' games, Castlevania IV just does things better. That's not necessarily putting down, or devaluing the others. I don't think any less of the original. The 16-bit at the time really was a jump up though. Konami were on top of their game, SNES-era, even that early on after Gradius 3.
I mean, when fans talk about their favourite series stages, I'd happily be picking four or five for the top of my list, all from this game. Forest of Monsters/Swamp, Library, Stage V, Stage B/Room of Close Associates . .. they are that good. Same if I were picking tracks of music.
There's just so much of this game done so well.
I think it's mostly nostalgia.
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Nostalgia has nothing to do with it.
CV4 brought real innovations to game play. Many of which had never been done before in a game much less a Castlevania.
Rondo brought a map system, alternate character and anime cinemas. Dracula's Curse brought alternate paths and characters. Bloodlines borrowed from CV4 and Dracula's curse. None of these games expanded on the way you actually play the game like CV4 did.
CV4 wins in innovation. It wins in graphics IMO. And it wins in music IMO. And the presentation of the game is incredible on top of everything else.
Nostalgia. Right.
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It's important to remember that the "best" is entirely subjective. (For an example I saw recently, this is why US Pizza chain "Papa John's" can legally say it has the "better" ingredients regardless of what those ingredients actually are. Because legally "better" and "best" are essentially meaningless opinion-based qualitative assessments.) The game is easier than it's fellow Classicvanias like I said. Which makes it more accessible and I believe for many who don't get the thrill of the challenge from the harder games it makes it a "better" title. I think other games in the series have had better music and graphics/atmosphere but again that's down to personal taste.
I'm interested in exactly how SCV4 was really "innovative" aside from the 8 direction whipping and the duckwalk though? It used a lot of mode 7 and it had some scrolling puzzle-like stages, though we'd already seen some of those in CV3. But I'd argue that, especially in light of many of these new aspects not being used in later games/SNES hardware specificity, a lot of these elements were artistic flourishes or experiments (in some cases one could say "gimmicks" if they wished to be negative) rather than true innovations. But it's been a few years since I've played the game, I'm sure there's some things I'm overlooking/forgetting and would like to hear about it's innovations from more devout fans. :)
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Whip swinging, whip fluttering and a dedicated sub weapon button.
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I think it's mostly nostalgia.
I fucking hate "it must be nostalgia" posts. Stupidest claim anyone can make.
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Whip swinging, whip fluttering and a dedicated sub weapon button.
All thing that made SCV4 great, but were abandoned with regard to later entries. Genius!!! Those things and whipping in 8 directions are unique to that game, but should have been used on other games. The two things that made the whip overpowered in the game were the length after the second upgrade and being able to whip enemies through walls.
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I personally think that the length is where it should be. Any shorter and it's no-longer the fully-powered vampire killer.
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I left out mid air jump control and jumping on and off of stairs.
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Nostalgia has nothing to do with it.
CV4 brought real innovations to game play. Many of which had never been done before in a game much less a Castlevania.
Rondo brought a map system, alternate character and anime cinemas. Dracula's Curse brought alternate paths and characters. Bloodlines borrowed from CV4 and Dracula's curse. None of these games expanded on the way you actually play the game like CV4 did.
CV4 wins in innovation. It wins in graphics IMO. And it wins in music IMO. And the presentation of the game is incredible on top of everything else.
Nostalgia. Right.
The keyword being IMO. The only expansion of gameplay CV4 brought was multi-direcional whipping (which made the game easy as fuck, because it's overpowered) and better air control/jump on stairs.
I'm actually glad that multi-directional whipping was dropped for subsequent games. Make the subweapons relevant while trying to design the stages again, instead of using the whip to kill EVERYTHING, even bosses.
It was in some ways a downgrade from CVIII. It had some cool stages here and there, but I think it's one of the easiest classic CVs (it's not a complete cakewalk, though).
It was the first CV game of many people. Nostalgia IS a factor when you're trying to choose your favourite game.
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Wrong again. Whip swinging brought in all new types of gameplay elements. And the ability to throw sub weapons while whip swinging because of the dedicated sub weapon button. And mobility while being crouched DID expand the gameplay.
A downgrade from CV3!? CV3 made very few changes on game play from CV1 other than alternate characters with different abilities.
The sub weapons in CV4 were still relevant, especially when upgraded.
Nostalgia has nothing to do with it when we're comparing it to other 20+ year old games. Anyone could pull the "nostalgia" card with any game. I played all of these games back when they were hot off of the press. I have the same warm fuzzy memories about all of them starting with CV1. My first game was Cv1 and I attained them all in release order. CV4 has no special nostalgic place in my heart other than being the best CV ever made.
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Wrong again. Whip swinging brought in all new types of gameplay elements. And the ability to throw sub weapons while whip swinging because of the dedicated sub weapon button.
A downgrade from CV3!? CV3 made very few changes on game play from CV1 other than alternate characters with different abilities.
The sub weapons in CV4 were still relevant, especially when upgraded.
Nostalgia has nothing to do with it when we're comparing it to other 20+ year old games. Anyone could pull the "nostalgia" card with any game. I played all of these games back when they were hot off of the press. I have the same warm fuzzy memories about all of them starting with CV1. My first game was Cv1 and I attained them all in release order. CV4 has no special nostalgic place in my heart other than being the best CV ever made.
Whip swinging, I forgot that. Kudos for that too.
Nope and nope for the others. Bloodlines made multi-directional whipping better, making it a bit limited, specially vertically.
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Bloodlines made nothing better. Limiting a super fun control mechanic is the wrong angle. All they needed to do was make the enemies stronger or make walls actual walls. Bloodlines also managed to suck the fun out of whip swinging as well. And yes crouch walking did add to the game albeit in a more modest way.
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The whip is the worst damn part about Bloodlines. Poorly programmed, hardly fun. I love the game, but I usually play as Eric.
If you wanna praise a limited multi-direction whip, the X68000 game did an awesome job of it.
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The whip is the worst damn part about Bloodlines. Poorly programmed, hardly fun. I love the game, but I usually play as Eric.
If you wanna praise a limited multi-direction whip, the X68000 game did an awesome job of it.
I was talking about the idea of limiting it.
@Montoya
I'll simply say that I don't agree with you and carry on.
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@ Maedhros
Oh, Reginald! (High Quality) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R6_Chr2vro#)
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Let's just try to make sure we all keep calm and respect each others right to differing opinions and tastes guys.
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Bloodlines made nothing better. Limiting a super fun control mechanic is the wrong angle. All they needed to do was make the enemies stronger or make walls actual walls. Bloodlines also managed to suck the fun out of whip swinging as well. And yes crouch walking did add to the game albeit in a more modest way.
Agreed. I like Bloodlines but I don't get how it's better than CV4 in any way and I've been running into a lot of people lately who think it is. :P
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My guess is that it's the "feel" of it. While CVIV has that timeless classic horror atmosphere, Bloodlines is very comic-book-esque and dark in that regard. It's its own kind of goofiness, I guess.
I don't think that remotely one-ups CVIV, myself, but that would be my assumption as to one of the answers to that.
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Both bloodlines and the X68000 CV both had multi-directional whip attacks though they were limited when compared to SCV4. In Bloodlines you could whip straight down or up at 45 degree angles only. In the X68000 CV you could only whip straight down or downwards at an angle. Clearly the idea for a versatile whip was there, but the programmers never carried over its full functionality. I also agree that the whip swing in bloodlines wasn't nearly as useful as it could have been. And it's unfortunate that there was no whip swinging in the X68000 CV.
Agreed. I like Bloodlines but I don't get how it's better than CV4 in any way and I've been running into a lot of people lately who think it is. :P
This might be a result of the 16-bit console wars. We all know just how fanatical the Genesis fans were. But that doesn't speak for everybody.
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I think it's mostly nostalgia.
Or maybe, when held up to the other games, for some Castlevania IV just does things better, has more character and grace, and a greater atmosphere. Here, you even said so yourself:
I agree that SCV4 does have, indeed, the best atmosphere of the series. So many little details that it's still astounds me every time I play. The music compliments the game really well too ...
You must be suffering nostalgia.
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I just like Bloodlines better visually. It's very vibrant and the colors pop. I like the fact you go all over Europe, I like the music, (I love me some Genesis tunes- that and Michuru Yamane <3) I like some of the effects they did too. Reflective water was nifty, as was the rotating Tower of Pisa. I mean, I like the rotating room in SCIV, but it doesnt seem to have much rhyme or reason. (not like random floating platforms around the leaning tower of Pisa have any more reason though)
I also just love John Morris' design. Built Ford tough. I have no issue with the whip. I appreciate that it's also a bit gorier than most CV games, since the Genesis had no reservations about "family oriented" nonsense like Nintendo did.
In all, i just like the overall feel of Bloodlines more. It's also a brand new entry, and not just another CV1 remake. It feels more original in that regard
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Agreed. I like Bloodlines but I don't get how it's better than CV4 in any way and I've been running into a lot of people lately who think it is. :P
From my personal opinion, the music. More if you take into consideration that Michiru Yamane did it in 2 weeks.
But that does not mean SCV4 music isn't spectacular. I think it is one of a kind when it comes to CV soundracks (like HoD is, but in a different way and infinitely better).
Anyway, the fact that I like the Bloodlines more than SCV4 doesn't make it a better game, I recognize that.
And, also anyway, the fact that it's not in my favourite CV games doesn't make it a mediocre game, not even a good one. It's an excellent game with some unique atmosphere, gameplay and soundtrack, that has aged perfectly, and it's a symbol of the 16-bits era that used some amazing technical display, which must have been jaw-dropping back in the day.
If SCV4 isn't part of my top 10 CV titles is because I like the others better, but it still is, both objectively and in my personal opinion, a game worth of 9 points if I were to give it a score.
And I made the thread not because of me, but because I was surprised that so many fans didn't hold it so high as I thought. I believed it was the favourite of everyone who played it back in the day.
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It truly was jaw dropping and still is.
I would give my left nut for a Super Castlevania 5.
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I do agree that SCIV is indeed as good as everyone says. Its atmosphere is quite unparalleled, and it hardly ever drags (which is a problem I found in most other CVs- there's always that level that you never care for...)
I'm not sure if it's my absolute number 1 favorite, but it's definitely up there with Chronicles and OoE for me.
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So much has already been said. Super Castlevania IV does hold up, and isn't overrated. It's not perfect, but it's definitely in the conversation for best Castlevania--only CVIII can really compete in the overall sense, though I do have a really soft spot for Dracula X SNES, which might be the most "fun" Castlevania with its arcade-like feel and unique watercolor/comic book palette.
One thing that boggles the mind. Castlevania IV's sprites are so big and animated with effects and such, and it's ONLY 16 bits...yet, later on, with more technology, the spites get smaller. Why is that? I mean, shouldn't one of the GBA or DS games have had stronger visuals than IV? (And also, why weren't more of its gameplay elements refined for later installments?).
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For me, my stands and opinion on SCV4 is similar to Fry/Rab-bot exchange about Robot Jesus in the "Future Stock" episode of Futurama:
"I believe it was a very well programmed game. But it's not my "Castlevania Messiah". ;)
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From my personal opinion, the music. More if you take into consideration that Michiru Yamane did it in 2 weeks.
But that does not mean SCV4 music isn't spectacular. I think it is one of a kind when it comes to CV soundracks (like HoD is, but in a different way and infinitely better).
Anyway, the fact that I like the Bloodlines more than SCV4 doesn't make it a better game, I recognize that.
And, also anyway, the fact that it's not in my favourite CV games doesn't make it a mediocre game, not even a good one. It's an excellent game with some unique atmosphere, gameplay and soundtrack, that has aged perfectly, and it's a symbol of the 16-bits era that used some amazing technical display, which must have been jaw-dropping back in the day.
If SCV4 isn't part of my top 10 CV titles is because I like the others better, but it still is, both objectively and in my personal opinion, a game worth of 9 points if I were to give it a score.
And I made the thread not because of me, but because I was surprised that so many fans didn't hold it so high as I thought. I believed it was the favourite of everyone who played it back in the day.
Oh I get what you're saying. Btw I didn't know Yamane was working on CV that far back!
I've jus played both games (Bloodlines not too many years after its release) and while I think Bloodlines is an excellent game that has a lot of great ideas that would be worth revisiting, thr total package that is CV4 is so much stronger IMO. I feel like the animation in BL is awkward and not very smooth for one and that's always bugged me about it.
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Dude, the game had an 8 direction WHIP! :o That sounds so cool and made you feel more in control of killing enemies. I still need to get it for my super nintendo, if I can find it cheap that is.
Plus the Dance of the Holy Man theme for Simon was amazing and still sounds epic today
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Oh I get what you're saying. Btw I didn't know Yamane was working on CV that far back!
In fact, she was part of the Konami Kukeiha Club, responsible of Castlevania III soundtrack, amongst other great stuff, so some tracks from CV3 are from Michiru Yamane (though I don't know which ones).
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In fact, she was part of the Konami Kukeiha Club, responsible of Castlevania III soundtrack, amongst other great stuff, so some tracks from CV3 are from Michiru Yamane (though I don't know which ones).
I had no idea that her work went this far back! No wonder she feel's burnt out :P
Although it would make sense not to know about this since, once more, the credits didn't mention anything about the Director, programmers, music artists, etc.
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In fact, she was part of the Konami Kukeiha Club, responsible of Castlevania III soundtrack, amongst other great stuff, so some tracks from CV3 are from Michiru Yamane (though I don't know which ones).
Source?
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No matter how you look at it, Super Castlevania IV is quite a remarkable game. It is one of these few, unique Castlevania titles that manage to completely embody the series' spirit while possessing a fierce identity of their own.
How much you appreciate it is of course a matter of personal taste; yet for me it stands as part of the best Castlevania has to offer.
Incidentally, I don't believe Yamane had worked on Castlevania as early as Dracula's Curse...
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Source?
I'll check and post if I find it. Maybe vgmdatabase. But I read for sure she was part of the KKC.
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It would be cool to know since when. Thanks for searching it.
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Here it is mentioned that KKC is responsible for the soundtrack, if I understand it correctly > http://vgmdb.net/album/5771 (http://vgmdb.net/album/5771)
The soundtrack isn't listed as part of Michiru Yamane's discography because at the time the soundtracks were signed simply as Konami Kukeiha Club.
And here you can see that Michiru Yamane was part of the KKC > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konami_Kukeiha_Club (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konami_Kukeiha_Club)
Though years aren't specified, it is known she worked as part of the KKC before going solo for composition.
Some more input can be gathered in these links, but they are in japanese:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B1%B1%E6%A0%B9%E3%83%9F%E3%83%81%E3%83%AB (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B1%B1%E6%A0%B9%E3%83%9F%E3%83%81%E3%83%AB)
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%8A%E3%83%9F%E7%9F%A9%E5%BD%A2%E6%B3%A2%E5%80%B6%E6%A5%BD%E9%83%A8 (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%8A%E3%83%9F%E7%9F%A9%E5%BD%A2%E6%B3%A2%E5%80%B6%E6%A5%BD%E9%83%A8)
Maybe Nagumo or Shiroi can bring some more light into this.
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CV3 was launched December 22, 1989 in Japan. She joined Konami in 1988 so its really possible, but while we can see her name in the english wikipedia page, she is not present in the japanese one.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B1%B1%E6%A0%B9%E3%83%9F%E3%83%81%E3%83%AB (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B1%B1%E6%A0%B9%E3%83%9F%E3%83%81%E3%83%AB)
Translated with Chrome:
In 1988, the game publisher Konami He joined. Worked for Konamibiru of Kobe Port Island. Initially, I was in charge of the sound GAMEBOY and MSX, but transferred to the charge of sound arcade game in 1990. Was in charge of the music along with the Ken Ken Nakajima was a new employee of the same year ! TwinBee Detana it is that the name is known for. In the liner notes, I had called himself "Chiruchiru Yamane".
Also we can notice in the same page that she worked in 2 Gradius and 2 Goemon titles launched respectively in 1988, 1989 and 1990, so I doubt she had time and chance to work in so many projects. Since its not listed anywhere that she worked in CV3, IMHO I think Bloodlines was her first CV project.
Another thing thats strange is that she started in KKC, but she still has been listed in these games that she had participated in japanese wikipedia, so a omission doesnt see to be the case.
Thats only my opinion for now, and if someone could disprove that my reasoning is correct it would be awesome, because I would have more clues and would need to start from 0 at the same time xD
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IV has it's flaws, but it's pretty much perfect atmosphere and presentation wise. The music, gameplay, and design were all beautifully in synch together. It really did make me feel like I was on a journey to slay Dracula.
Not to mention it gave us Simon's theme, probably one of the greatest songs in the whole franchise.
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CV3 was launched December 22, 1989 in Japan. She joined Konami in 1988 so its really possible, but while we can see her name in the english wikipedia page, she is not present in the japanese one.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B1%B1%E6%A0%B9%E3%83%9F%E3%83%81%E3%83%AB (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B1%B1%E6%A0%B9%E3%83%9F%E3%83%81%E3%83%AB)
Translated with Chrome:
Also we can notice in the same page that she worked in 2 Gradius and 2 Goemon titles launched respectively in 1988, 1989 and 1990, so I doubt she had time and chance to work in so many projects. Since its not listed anywhere that she worked in CV3, IMHO I think Bloodlines was her first CV project.
Another thing thats strange is that she started in KKC, but she still has been listed in these games that she had participated in japanese wikipedia, so a omission doesnt see to be the case.
Thats only my opinion for now, and if someone could disprove that my reasoning is correct it would be awesome, because I would have more clues and would need to start from 0 at the same time xD
Chiruchiru Yamane is Michiru with a nickname...
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I know that since I've seen this tidbit in wikipedia too, my point still the same since this nickname isnt in these mentioned places too. :P
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IMHO I think Bloodlines was her first CV project.
Yep.
http://www.1up.com/features/catching-castlevania-composer-2 (http://www.1up.com/features/catching-castlevania-composer-2)
1UP: I'd like to talk more about Castlevania, since that seems to be what you're best known for. How did you first become involved with the Castlevania series?<
Michiru Yamane: I moved to the Tokyo office, and the first title I worked on was Vampire's Killer [Castlevania Bloodlines], for the Mega Drive.
And, Chiruchiru Yamane is Tyltyl Yamane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Bird_(play) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Bird_(play))
Parody of Tyltyl and Mytyl.
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Thanks Koutei, a better source than Michiru Yamane herself is impossible to get.
So, she never was in the KKC after all. I've read wrong information, it seems, and I believed otherwise all these years.
Thanks for the info!
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On topic: I edit the title of the thread to add my opinion, so people don't think I believe SCV4 i overrated.
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I found another info about the KKC. It seems Michiru Yamane's 1st Castlevania work was indeed Bloodlines, but she was part of the KKC making previous soundtracks, like CV III.
In fact, she was part of the KKC until she decided to go solo (or Konami decided, I don't know).
She was a former member of KKC, so it's now sure she was part of CV III soundtrack composition.
So we were all right. Bloodlines was her first solo work in CV, but she previously worked on CV soundtracks.
KKC:
http://vgmdb.net/artist/161 (http://vgmdb.net/artist/161)
Castlevania III:
http://vgmdb.net/album/121 (http://vgmdb.net/album/121)
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But we dont know when she joined KKC yet, ee need to confirm if she instantly joined this group when entered Konami ... :(
The main problem is: prove that Michiru Yamane was in KKC at the time they did CV3 soundtrack.
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It says on that webpage that she was a former member, so if KKC made CV3 she was there, because she went solo when Bloodlines was in preparations, and previously she only worked on KKC, so everything fits, as I see it.
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But the problems is that we dont know if he was at KKC at this time dear, he could have joined before, at this time or after (unless everyone music related was instantly at KKC when entered Konami) :P
I understand that she didnt worked solo before, but KKC is the only group existant? She could be working with some another amount of people in music area so that doesnt count as solo, before joining KKCm unless its the only group in Konami.
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The way I understood it, she was an initial member of the KKC when KKC started, and that's why she is listed in the list at the bottom of the page.
Besides, this isn't the first time I've seen something stating that she was on KKC when earlier CV games were made.
It's just that I couldn't find anything else right now.
Maybe Nagumo or Shiroi can find a japanese webpage that have the information. With my limited japanese knowledge, I've been trying without success.
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If with your limited JP knowlegdge its hard, imagine for me that doesnt know how to read any japanese letter xD
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I know because I was there a couple years ago, but if you like the language give it a try, it's not as difficult as it seems (at least to have a basic notion).
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I am not interested in knowing whether Michiru Yamane was part of the team that made the CV3 soundtrack.
Anyway, regarding KKC and Yamane. If I am not mistaken, everyone who worked with the sound department becomes part of the KKC regardless of the time they joined Konami. Then the go out of KKC when they leave.
Since her name is not credited in CV3, I could safely assume she was not part of that project. She might be in training at that time, if she is already with Konami.
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Thats what Im trying to say, since she is a newcomer maybe she worked in minor things, maybe not. But I cant prove anything, only disprove using the lack of info. But even so its a lack of info for both sides, until you mentioned this training thing.
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The problem is that the official info about CV3 soundtrack is signed by KKC, without specifying which composers were at the time.
It was very common, for what I've learned. Many Megaman games by Manami Matsumae were signed as Sato.
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Maybe you should wait for scans of this: http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,6488.0.html (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,6488.0.html)
See PFG9000's post.
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Yes, when I read this in the another thread I remembered of this discussion here, but this includes the musical team? If so its obvious that Michiru was not in it, she joined Konami in 1988, CV1 and CV2 are from 1986 and 1987.
Since I dont know if they are talking about a "whole" team I dont discarded the possibility yet.
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Now I'm the same cloud of doubts as Lely.
CV3 is from 1989 I believe...
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Yes, it is from 1989.
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We'll just wait for the scans then we'll see if it answers our question or give us more questions.
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Let's hope for it, but I'll be more inclined for the "more questions" option.
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There really isn't any mystery here. Yamane's own multiple recollections of Bloodlines being her first work within the series should put a firm stop to any second-guessing, but let's just reiterate once more.
1) "Konami Kukeiha Club" was an umbrella term for composers working for Konami at the time. It wasn't a solid unit of a select few people, just a collective moniker they could use as shorthand in game credits when most people went by inscrutable pseudonyms to begin with. Yamane belonged to the group during her time as much as anyone else, but it doesn't mean everything credited to them also automatically involves her.
Incidentally, "Kukeiha Club" was a separate element within Konami's league of musicians, being an in-house live band who recorded arrangements of Konami music as well as some original material. There's often confusion between the two, for obvious reasons, and it doesn't help that there was overlap between the members of each group. Yamane wasn't part of Kukeiha Club the band, it should be noted.
2) Castlevania III isn't a game where only an intentionally vague Konami Kukeiha Club credit exists for the sound team - the composers and programmers are credited under their own names, within the game and outside of it. They are Hidenori Maezawa, Jun Funahashi, Yukie Morimoto and Yoshinori Sasaki. Maezawa, by his own account, was also one of the people responsible for creating the VRC6 chip utilized in the Japanese version of the game for enhanced sound and graphical capabilities, but he didn't work on converting the original music to the NES hardware. Since most outside sources and soundtrack notes credit the first three for composition, it would be a likely assumption that Sasaki was the person who handled the arrangement of the NES tracks, either alone or with Funahashi and/or Morimoto. In any case, this is the group of people who created the game's sound, however the particulars actually line up, and Yamane isn't one of them.
I'm not going to cite any sources. Believe with your heart~
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Thanks, this adds more light to the subject.
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It really did make me feel like I was on a journey to slay Dracula.
Since 1 this was already the case.
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I'm not going to cite any sources. Believe with your heart~
Peklo! How've you been?
Good stuff there. I always wondered about the KKC when I saw it in credits of various games. That's cool that they actually have a live in house band to cut instrumental tracks when they needed them.