Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Pfil on August 21, 2013, 08:30:13 PM
-
Not to start a war or annoy everyone, nor I believe this is a possibility either, but let's play a little...
What if the next Castlevania game decides to be a LoS prequel, all set in a Dracula-less world, with ancient ruins and holy battles of the Order? (and all that stuff).
How would fans react? Would LoS fans welcome it or would they think it's too much?
-
Play as the original Lords of shadow; Cornell, Carmilla, and Zobek?
I'm game for that.
-
If that was the case, I for the first time would support dropping the name "Castlevania" and keep it "Lords of Shadow: Stuff"
-
What if...
In the end of the game they use a Deus-Ex Machina where Cox appears to kill Gabriel and say "I warned you to buy my games so I could go away!"
On-topic: I would ask where is the true new Castlevania game, since it will not feature a Belmont, Dracula's Castle nor Dracula itself in any form.
-
Cornell, Carmilla and Zobek would be the basic idea or the original Order, so yes.
-
I want my Castlevania to feature Dracula...
If they drop "Castlevania" from the title, then I wouldn't have a problem, but that is impossible.
-
Cornell, Carmilla and Zobek would be the basic idea or the original Order, so yes.
I'll take it one further: It would be 2.5D and play like Castlevania III, where you can switch between the characters at will. I don't want a game like this, but I can see it working in theory.
-
Honestly I wouldn't have any interest. Lord of Shadows is series that is tied to Gabcula and without him there really no deal for me. Maybe a game where you played as belmont post MOF and pre LOS2 would be cool. But playing the brotherhood of light or Cornell, Zobek and Carmillia naaaaaaaaaah.
-
+1 for the "If there's no Dracula, it ain't CV"
Maybe there could be "The Lords Of Shadow Chronicles" that deals with that though.
-
Aria of Sorrow
Dawn of Sorrow
Lament of Innocence
They don't have Dracula, yet they are called Castlevania, the Sorrow games kinda has dracula and LoI doesn't have him at all.
-
I think it could work if the plot was about how the three founders became the lords of shadow. I'd say give each of the three their own story that crosses over the others every so often (like in Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep). I also say drop the CV title from all the LoS games. These games never really felt like CV and I think it would make a lot of CV fans very happy. Just because a series has some form of Dracula and spends a decent amount of time in a demonic castle(s) doesn't make it CV. The series should simply be called Lords of Shadow. Period.
Are the games bad? No. I never said that. They just don't feel like CV and to call them that seems to put a bad taste in the mouths of some CV fans.
-
I wouldn't be very interested in this being THE next CV game, but as a side story called Lords of Shadow: Origins or whatever, if they fix the music, I think I'd be interested in the game (as something else, not as CV).
And I like the concept of a 2.5D game where you switch characters, but better than that: a 2D game with sprites (WayForward could be a good candidate for that sprites and music).
Funny thing is that maybe we are truly guessing the future CV game (and if Cox finds out he'll start lying all over again; just kidding :P... but not really).
-
I feel like you could make a Trine-esque game out of a premise like that.
Cornell would play like the Knight, Carmilla would play like the Wizard, and Zobek would play like the Thief. Obviously you would change up the gameplay, but it sounds interesting.
-
How would fans react?
I would react with utter disinterest.
-
LoI doesn't have him at all.
Uh he was right there at the very end, you just don't fight him.
-
Aria of Sorrow
Dawn of Sorrow
Lament of Innocence
They don't have Dracula, yet they are called Castlevania, the Sorrow games kinda has dracula and LoI doesn't have him at all.
- Aria of Sorrow <---- Has Dracula's reincarnation, features a Belmont and Dracula's son, and actually takes place in Castlevania
- Dawn of Sorrow <---- Has all of the above, except the castle is now modeled after Castlevania
- Lament of Innocence <---- Has Pre-Dracula Dracula, begins the feud with the Belmonts, and also takes place in Castlevania
So yes, they do have a version of Dracula, and also a Belmont and the titular castle. The 3 basic staples of the series. The question that is being posed is, would a game that was based on the Lords of Shadow themselves still work as a LoS Castlevania game.
In my opinion, you would need 2 of the 3 of those basic staples incorporated into the game in order to call it a Castlevania title. A game based on the Lords of Shadow pre-Gabriel would only have, based on the current information, 1 of these 3. (Carmilla's castle is the Pre!Castlevania) Therefore that alone would not constitute being able to be called a Castlevania title.
That being said, they could certainly shill certain elements that have been in the continuity and expand upon them in order to circumvent going without the other 2 basic staples. For instance they could expand on the Rinardo Gandolfi story and the creation of the "Vampire Killer", as well as tying in the Cronqvists to perhaps be connected to the Lords of Shadow themselves. (therefore, pulling a "Lament" card out of their hat like was done with Lament itself) This would tangentially relate story elements to the other two staples needed to make it a true Castlevania game.....though rather loosely and probably in an incredibly convoluted way.
You might as well go back to the old canon and scrape together side-stories from there, if you're going that route. You'll probably end up with more to work with.
-
I guess if they went that route, they could just simply make Lords of Shadow its own unique series, independent from Castlevania.
-
Lament Doesn't have Dracula at all, it has the man that becomes Dracula.... within the 382 years between the end of LoI and the start of Cv:III.
arguably the focus of Lament wasn't Dracula, but the Vampire Killer itself, Throughout the game you learn that Mathias was a great alchemist who obtained the Crimson Stone and cursed God for letting his beloved die of Illness.
The Epilogue of the game, much like Lords of Shadow, reveals that the subject character is Dracula.
Aria of Sorrow, I'll take that one back, you are in Castle that is trying to invoke it's master...
Dawn of Sorrow on the other hand really shouldn't of existed... Soma could go Drac but not if you equip the right stuff... and the whole Dark Candidates thing really didn't have enough credible back-story to be buy-able... but it was fun though....
now back to a Lords of Shadow Prequel, the story would go down like this;
You play as the founding members of the Brotherhood of light and follow them as their fall as Lord of Shadow....
Plot will follow the skirmishes of their dark forms to set the conditions of LoS1, thus betraying the brotherhood and sabotaging a certain Belmont.
Carmilla goes to the castle, Zobek initates Dracula + Belmont, the 3 Basic staples of the series.
-
IGA already stated that Mathias took on the name Vlad Tepes Dracula when he fled from Leon.
The moment that nigga took Walter's soul and had both the ebony and the crimson stone, Mathias for all intents and purposes died and Dracula was born.
-
Aria of Sorrow
Dawn of Sorrow
Lament of Innocence
They don't have Dracula, yet they are called Castlevania, the Sorrow games kinda has dracula and LoI doesn't have him at all.
Umm no? They have Dracula in LoI, the fact that he isnt Dracula yet doesnt mean its not there. Also they feature a Belmont, thwe whip and Castlevania (Castlevania in AoS and DoS). I said that a game without any of these features couldnt be called Castlevania, but these feature at least 3 of them xD
-
IGA already stated that Mathias took on the name Vlad Tepes Dracula when he fled from Leon.
The moment that nigga took Walter's soul and had both the ebony and the crimson stone, Mathias for all intents and purposes died and Dracula was born.
I thought Mathias took the name Vlad Tepes, but took the name Dracula just before he started his way with humanity. I think that would also explain why Adrian Tepes is not called Adrian Tepes Dracula. :P
-
Dracula isnt a real name, its more like a title that he adopted as a name later.
-
Be the next castlevania: NO.
Replace the classical CV in the future: NO.
Try KONAMI use the "lore" of LOS and get something like that: 100% (money called money, SF, AC, CoD ...) :rollseyes: and Konami already tried. We could see some of the "old lore" LOS in LOS2? (perhaps .., DLC, expansion)
The history continue into the future: almost impossible to continue the story into the future but very possible into the past (has history for one or two games).
-
Personally the think the order thing in LoS is another stupid thing about LoS. They talk about an order, but nothing is shown. And the only one that shows up *Spoiler Alert* is Zobek, who's one of the original. It's just funny how the order only has 4 members, and 3 of them are founders. ( I know, it could have more but was unshown, but when you have something in the focus area, you should elaborate more and build it.)
I have yet to play the other game, Mirror of Fate, so maybe it was added in there. I don't know... but it just seems bad.
It leaves me wondering... is Gabriel exceptional? Are all of the order super powerful that they rape High Ranking Vampires, Demons, and Werewolves?
So I can't say I'd really be interested, couple that with my annoyances with LoS... eh....
-
Be the next castlevania: NO.
Replace the classical CV in the future: NO.
Try KONAMI use the "lore" of LOS and get something like that: 100% (money called money, SF, AC, CoD ...) :rollseyes: and Konami already tried. We could see some of the "old lore" LOS in LOS2? (perhaps .., DLC, expansion)
The history continue into the future: almost impossible to continue the story into the future but very possible into the past (has history for one or two games).
Thanks for the info :)
Are you hinting that my initial guess has some foundations on reality?
I mean, like in the future we'll have more classic CV games but also more LoS games (like Call of Duty have Modern Warfare as a separate saga, or (God forbid us) Megaman have the Battle Network games?).
-
As far as the LoS series is concerned, on it's own, segregated from the Castlevania name; sure, that would be really cool. It is an important part of the story, which doesn't need explicit detailing but could be the foundation for a great game of it's own, especially if you're given, say, a team of three at once.
-
A game that plays like Castlevania III, where you play as a Gabriel ancestor (who still has nothing to do with vampires), who, in his journey, happens to cross paths with Carmilla, Zobek and Cornell.
And from then, he is aided by these 3 characters (and betrayed at the end, perhaps).
-
Actually I think the game would fare better if it moves completely away from Gabriel, and any possible lineage. Focus on Zobek instead. Even Carmilla being the lead would be interesting, but I think ability wise, form a gameplay perspective, Zobek is the best 'first character'.
-
I thought Mathias took the name Vlad Tepes, but took the name Dracula just before he started his way with humanity. I think that would also explain why Adrian Tepes is not called Adrian Tepes Dracula. :P
Dracula as a name originates to Vlad II (the father of Prince Vlad the Impaler), took the surname of Dracul, which is Romanian literal for "the dragon," after his administration to the Order of the Dragon in 1431. Following in his father's footsteps, Vlad III altered it to "Dracula," the added "a" changing it to mean "son of Dracul," A.K.A. "son of the Dragon." In more modern translations of the name, its meaning shifted to become "the Devil," rather than "the Dragon," which undoubtedly contributed to the current projection we, at least in the Castlevania fandom, have of Dracula.
But nobody cares about Radu. Radu goes unloved. I guess being good-looking as shit doesn't mean much when your brother has a hobby of making kabob forests out of people.
I'm sure Mathias would have taken up the surname for reasons just as similar. Since mythical creatures are abound in the Castlevania universe, I would imagine that the name would instill fear due to the implicated existence of actual dragons, which would surely be creatures to fear on levels as Vampires and the higher demonkind. That, or he interpreted it as "Devil," as took it to further dictate his mockery and rebellion against God. Either way, it makes sense in the series' plot context, since the "son of" part becomes less of a patriarchal respect thing and more of a declaration of being the offspring of such horrible and fearful monsters and beings.
-
Lament of Innocence <---- Has Pre-Dracula Dracula, begins the feud with the Belmonts, and also takes place in Castlevania
Takes place in castlevania..? I have my doubts about this since I've yet to see any info stating that the castle in LoI is indeed castlevania. What's more is that LoI doesn't take place in Romania where castlevania was "born" essentially. The castle itself was Walter's and Walter never created castlevania. Dracula created it. Also the castle itself only appears in it's home country of Romania every game. It appears no where else and that's because Romania is it's homeland where it was created and where it partially draws its power. I think walter's castle is like the ones featured in CotM, DoS and Bloodlines. They are similar to Castlevania but are not castlevania. And unlike castlevania, they do not resurrect.
Jeez, say all these castlevanias is making me tongue-tied :P
-
Takes place in castlevania..? I have my doubts about this since I've yet to see any info stating that the castle in LoI is indeed castlevania. What's more is that LoI doesn't take place in Romania where castlevania was "born" essentially. The castle itself was Walter's and Walter never created castlevania. Dracula created it. Also the castle itself only appears in it's home country of Romania every game. It appears no where else and that's because Romania is it's homeland where it was created and where it partially draws its power. I think walter's castle is like the ones featured in CotM, DoS and Bloodlines. They are similar to Castlevania but are not castlevania. And unlike castlevania, they do not resurrect.
Jeez, say all these castlevanias is making me tongue-tied :P
From what I gather (fresh from beating it again) is that Walter is a Proto-Dracula, He stated that he will come back after Death, Commands Mythical Creatures and essentially his castle has alot of properties of Castlevania, namingly crumbling at it's master's death, when Mathias took Walter's Spirit as his own he gained all of his properties...
but LoI does have some major plotholes though...
Why Did Mathias essentially hand Leon the only weapon that can kill him?
what happens to the Crimson stone after Dracula gets defeated every time?
-
Death swoops in and takes it back. You cannot defeat Death, only keep him at bay, so he still lurks around the castle watching over whomever his master is and retrieving the stone if his master is defeated. Yar. That's what I'm going with. That or Dracula is never defeated, just kept at bay, but he heals much more slowly than death. Yar. I'm going with that one too.
-
Dracula is defeated, otherwise they wouldnt call it "Dracula's ressurection" right?
-
I've always gone with the notion that Dracula's physical body is destroyed, but his soul/consciousness/essence/etc. remains and is either kept safe by Death, or transports to the Chaotic realm until it can rejuvenate a new body. Death, on the other hand...I never really got that part. I mean, you obviously can't kill Death, so what happens to him when you beat him? If he were to just teleport or fly away after being beaten, if would be one thing, since he's still physically around. But in some of the deaths like SCVIV and LoI in which the guy goes pretty badly, how the hell does he come back? If you can kill him physically, then his soul must remain, but without a body, how can he perform his duties as Death? If he just remakes his body at will for that, why doesn't he do that as soon as you beat him? Does he want Dracula to be beaten? Does he have some ulterior motive to increase Dracula's power with each resurrection, so he lets him die for that to happen? If that's true, why doesn't he just let him rest in Chaos indefinitely instead of the rebirth cycle happening? Why doesn-
*head explodes*
-
If you can kill him physically, then his soul must remain, but without a body, how can he perform his duties as Death? If he just remakes his body at will for that, why doesn't he do that as soon as you beat him?
Death doesnt need a body to carry his duties, since it bis duty is to retrieve souls from people when they time comes. This body is used to ignore this rule and kills someone before the time.
Death cant rebuild his body instantly because it must need some energy, energy that is regained when time passes or (it will sound funny I know) after carring his normal duties for a time, that his escorting souls.
-
Ohhh, okay. I honestly had never accounted the idea of his body being used for that alone.
So, I guess between Castlevania resurrections, he's just floating around in spirit and harvesting souls? That makes sense.
Herp a derp.
-
Well, Im only trying to explain something in my own way, that doesnt mean its really that hahaha
But who knows xD
-
what if Death gathers the souls of the sinners to power the resurrecting of Castlevania...
it could explain why Dracula was to strong in 1999 due to growing sinners amongst the people...
-
Castlevania III kinda defeats the Dracula-is-killed argument. You hack the guy's head off and it just floats around, then explodes into multiple heads which fuse together, which collapse into a putrid mess before summoning Pazuzu. He's like Death, you just cripple him by destroying his body, but he regenerates over time. The Romanians think he's dead, so when he comes back they think he was resurrected, but really he just rejuvenated.
And yeah, I think Death just gathers corpses to make a new body and when he's a giant skull in CV3 he's really just projecting his spirit, it's not a real skull.
And unfortunately for poor D, as Dr. Chaos said in Ghost Sweeper Mikami, immortality doesn't come without its prices -- your brain fills up with new memories and experiences until there's no room for anymore, so the old ones get expunged to make room for the new. (Explains other things about D's character.)
-
I think that Dracula really dies and a new body appears to him each 100 years. Otherwise his relics are attracted together and then this new corpse appears.
Detail is: He dies, then when he have a corpse again he ressurects inside it, Thats my opinion.
-
How does he choose a corpse? Why is he Bela Lugosi one year and Sean Connery the next?
-
I was talking more CV Dracula than the global one. I imagine a copy body appearing for him from nothingness when the relics arent present.