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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Hardcore Gaming 101 => Topic started by: Johnny on September 18, 2013, 09:53:36 PM

Title: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Johnny on September 18, 2013, 09:53:36 PM
Name a couple of positives you can think of with Nintendo and a couple of negatives. Since 1985 there has got to be many things they have done right and many things they have done wrong. Feel free to chime in and speak your mind. Feel free to express your blunt and honest opinions about the console.

Lets keep in mind these things while doing this:

Inanimate objects are not a part of your family nor do you need to defend them as such. You also don't need to act like the console got up and gunned down your Mom.

Regarding the company, unless you know people who work at Nintendo personally or work for Nintendo themselves there's no reason to take offence if someone bashes a Nintendo staff member. Its not your job to defend them. Quite frankly because they don't care whether you defend them or not. They are still making money. Conversely if you don't like the people for whatever reason you probably shouldn't go as far to wish death on them, get some terminal illness, or whatever other misfortune.

You can choose to sound intelligent or you can choose not to. I have learned this lesson in the past myself. Saying something like "Nintendo sucks because all they make are kiddy games" or "Nintendo are awesome because well...they're Nintendo! I just love anything with that brand name on it!" are rather broad statements. Back up your sources and get things to reinforce your opinions. If you think Nintendo makes mostly games geared towards young children and preteens then show a ratio of these games as opposed to other types of games Nintendo makes and illustrate why this isn't a good thing. If you love the Nintendo brand then you can name a couple of things such as game franchises, company reputation with returns, hardware, etc which makes the brand so great. This way if someone chooses to debate whatever point you have, it doesn't seem like you are ignorant and therefore a waste of their time. You could choose to look like a blind fanboy, a bias hater, or that you're putting forth some thought into what you're saying. Its your choice.

I know this is tough but try to be somewhat fair with your opinions as well as while reading someone else's opinions. Maybe they know more than you think or maybe they just misunderstand what you're saying. Keep an open mind.

That's it. So go to it :)

I can start. I have a lot of love for classic Nintendo. If it wasn't for Howard Lincoln, Nintendo Power, and lots of classic games that I can still play today I wouldn't have such a foundation in gaming. I can also appreciate other consoles. As I grew older my interests kind of changed. Sure when my 4 year old nephew and I sit down and he wants to play Mario games (he is obsessed with them) I entertain myself by playing a game like Mario Galaxy with him. But its not where my own heart lies as far as having a console nor is any other console of the big 3 at the moment.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 18, 2013, 10:54:48 PM
I will post something now, if I think about something else I will put it in a new post or edit this one if no one posts until then.

Pros
Fun over graphics: They know that good graphics doesnt mean good game, so they go right into the core and focus more on the fun, letting graphic quality for later. In the end, it still very good (IMO these people talking about 1080p is a must or things like that are being a little spoiled by the industry).

Good franchises: Nintendo have proven that even if third-parties abandon them, they can resist for a long time and will not fall instantly like some other companies would.

For all ages: They do games that can be played by everyone without being boring, I call it "true videogame", since thats how old games are, and IMO that how it should ever be. Im not saying that all games must be like that, but at least 50% or 70% should.

Memorable music: What could I say? They havent lose their good taste over all these years and some of the most iconic musics comes from Nintendo (I've said some, not all).

Free online service: While all other services right now (PSN was free too, but will be paid in the near future if I understood it right) make you pay to play online, they give it for free. One of my cons would be that friendcode system, but they finally fixed that in Wii U and 3DS.

Innovation: They ever come with new ideas, not focusing only in graphical update, sadly other companies copy these ideas after seeing it. Even if they say that it never would make success, when Nintendo do it and it indeed make success, companies come and do the same thing. (Vita  and Smartglass acting as a controller like Wii U Gamepad, PSMove being a Wii Remote clone).


Cons

Region Lock: This is obsolete and nothing that they say will be enough, they give excuses about rating and updates, when they can do all updates be universal. Also games need to be imported if its from another region, kids doesnt have credit card and thus they can only get it with a parent permission, so "rating fault = bullshit".

Virtual Console choices: Im not talking about which game they choose, but how they decide which system to put in 3DS and Wii U. GB, GBC and GBA makes sense to be in 3DS, but then they go and decide to put GBA in Wii U instead. So here is my idea: why they dont add Virtual Console that are compatible with Wii U AND 3DS?

Neglecting some older franchises: Sometime ago they were focusing too much in some franchises and forgetting other franchises, but recently they brought Star Fox and Kid Icarus back. Now Im waiting for a new F-Zero, Ice Climber, Balloon Fight, a real new Excite Bike and maybe they could add Duck Hunt in a new Wii U Play.

Third-parties: I dont know whats the problem, but they really arent receiving the same attention as before from thirds, this is the core problem for Wii U right now, since I cant see any other.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Abnormal Freak on September 19, 2013, 12:44:24 AM
I'm not really sure I see the point of this or the reason for singling out Nintendo. Every major company has its fair share of right things they do and other things which boggle the mind.

I love Nintendo and I'll admit there are a lot of things they do that frustrate the hell out of me, but I guess I don't feel like posting a whole big, long thread about it.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Johnny on September 19, 2013, 12:48:54 AM
I'm not really sure I see the point of this or the reason for singling out Nintendo. Every major company has its fair share of right things they do and other things which boggle the mind.

I love Nintendo and I'll admit there are a lot of things they do that frustrate the hell out of me, but I guess I don't feel like posting a whole big, long thread about it.

Because to list every single company that makes games in this thread would take all day. So I took one of the most notable ones that most people in this forum seem to recognize. I could also make threads for games Capcom, Konami, Sony, Microsoft, EA etc makes but lets see how this goes first. Listing pros and cons for Nintendo is a good start. If people show interest in this we could think about threads for other companies for people to express opinions about.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Abnormal Freak on September 19, 2013, 12:53:04 AM
[...] we could think about threads for other companies for people to express opinions about.

Please don't. :|
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 19, 2013, 01:15:17 AM
We really are going to talk about Microsoft and EA? Please dont².
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Johnny on September 19, 2013, 01:21:09 AM
We really are going to talk about Microsoft and EA? Please dont².

Well that's kind of why I went with Nintendo. Universally, it seemed like a safe bet. I don't think I could do Microsoft without having more negative to say than positive (and I'm sure others would feel the same). I won't even use Windows on my PC let alone buy ANY pieces of hardware they make. As for EA don't even get me started with their stupid used game BS they are trying to pull.

So yeah back to the topic at hand. I do like the fact that Nintendo always tries new things whether it works out for them or it doesn't. It seems like they like to take risks and for the most part it shows that they do have a desire to try and be creative. Its a good thing they don't just carry over into their own consoles what they see has worked in other consoles from other companies in past gens.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: X on September 19, 2013, 04:26:27 AM
Quote
I'm not really sure I see the point of this or the reason for singling out Nintendo. Every major company has its fair share of right things they do and other things which boggle the mind.

Except that Nintendo has been around for over a century while the other companies are all still new kids on the block. And it's true that Nintendo only got into the video game scene recently, however they are a force to be reckoned with. For being around as long as they have and being careful about some of the choices they've made throughout the years, I'm pretty sure they will last for quiet a while with the amount of funds saved up, even if they have their version of the recession on their hands.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Ratty on September 19, 2013, 05:25:25 AM
Nintendo resurrected console gaming. They did so by ruthless tactics which forced out competition. (Like the poor Master System.) But also by enforcing then much-needed quality control to avoid the deluge of substandard games that had choked off the Atari 2600 and indeed most of the American video game industry. I think their policy of focusing on the actual game experience rather than technology is the personification of what used to be the entire argument for and advantage of consoles before they just became overpriced proprietary PCs. As the end of the traditional console seems to loom larger and larger I think Nintendo is a company that has a good chance to exist on the strength of their IPs. Even when consoles are finally consumed by the all-encompassing central PC-media center that seems to be increasingly inevitable for the future.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 19, 2013, 05:48:34 AM
Nintendo revived the video game console, and is now dancing on the edge of a knife with the second in a series of gimmick consoles. Their games themselves haven't evolved since the Gamecube. Their handheld is still the one to beat- but that's largely on the strength of the original DS, not on the 3DS.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Pfil on September 19, 2013, 12:56:48 PM
Pros:
Nintendo saved videogames, literally.
They gave us Zelda, Metroid, Mario and a lot of other great franchises and games.
NES, SNES, Wii, NDS...
They care about gaming, they care about their franchises, they care about real players who've been playing all their life.

Contras:
If there have to be any, they didn't make the Wii with HD support, but today that can be fixed thanks to the magic of emulation.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 19, 2013, 09:05:48 PM
Their games themselves haven't evolved since the Gamecube.

Mario Galaxy is very different from Mario Sunshine.

Smash Bros Brawl adds a lot of things that Melee didnt have (even if people prefer Melee that doesnt mean that it not added nothing)

Metroid Prime 3 is the first game in a console that I saw where you can use a pointer to aim without still being able to freely walk and explore the world, before Wii I have seen it only in PCs using a mouse or in consoles using a controller, but a controller isnt so good to aim like a mouse or pointer.
So it adds a lot from Metroid Prime 2.

Wii Remote & Wii Balance Board.

Now if you meant graphically, Wii have better graphics too, not like a PS3 but it is better than GC.

Or you meant core mechanics? If its it, they didnt change it because its not broken.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Johnny on September 19, 2013, 09:10:25 PM
Nintendo resurrected console gaming. They did so by ruthless tactics which forced out competition. (Like the poor Master System.) But also by enforcing then much-needed quality control to avoid the deluge of substandard games that had choked off the Atari 2600 and indeed most of the American video game industry. I think their policy of focusing on the actual game experience rather than technology is the personification of what used to be the entire argument for and advantage of consoles before they just became overpriced proprietary PCs. As the end of the traditional console seems to loom larger and larger I think Nintendo is a company that has a good chance to exist on the strength of their IPs. Even when consoles are finally consumed by the all-encompassing central PC-media center that seems to be increasingly inevitable for the future.

I mean the thing about the Atari 2600 was that you not only had big developers making games for it. You had other companies such as Playaround (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playaround) making games which you'd never in a million years see on the NES. Basically whatever didn't or couldn't exist on the NES was driven onto the PC due to Nintendo's seal of quality. So really you had these A List companies making games but at the same token even though most were good you still had a few stinkers as with any console. I would say the Atari 2600 was more or less a different type of console. Not necessarily bad but different. Still the irony is the same thing that occurred with a console like Atari 2600 and the flood of crapware is kind of the same that's going on in the mobile market. At the same token it gives people options. Granted it sucks having to sift through the crap to get to the good stuff but I think anyone should have the rights to make and publish a game out of principle. NES was an awesome product but it was marketed to a completely different more targeted audience than Atari 2600 was. That's what made it so successful. It wasn't all over the place trying to port all sorts of poorly made PC games and Arcade games to the console as well as having Person A from Bumbleville trying to throw out some random crappy game he created in 3 seconds (though it did have some ports it wasn't flooded with terrible ports like what the 2600 tried to do with Pacman and did have more original games). Nintendo marketed to mostly 6 - 15 year old audiences and there was no need for them to market to tons of different audiences like the Atari 2600 tried to do. Kids played the NES and the games, Adults used PCs. (I speak from experience as my parents never once touched the NES or any other console I had to play games nor did any other parent I knew of friends. Though they loved their PCs.) Granted maybe a couple of Adults played the games on the NES but it was mostly marketed to Adolescents and in some cases younger children too. It was never a worry like now a days to try to market to everyone under the sun. The only reason that's happening is because of people who are my age (or older) who grew up playing video games and still want to play games that they feel suit them.

Later on Nintendo did try to combine family friendly gaming while still trying to market to teens and adults. Mortal Kombat 1 and Wolfenstein were allowed to be released for the SNES and approved by Nintendo just as long as they were way way toned down in violence from their original counterparts which they were. So I guess to some degree they did make an effort to make everyone happy in a way. Kids could play the games they loved while parents rested easy knowing that the games weren't too inappropriate for their kids to be playing. At one point I criticized Nintendo for this but now I commend them on this. Mostly because kids who didn't get a chance to play Mortal Kombat or Wolfenstein due to the violence level in the games were allowed to enjoy the more toned down version of the games. It was better for the kids to actually have the fun experience of playing the games than not at all. Also, the SNES version of Mortal Kombat was closer to the original than the Sega Genesis version was. The SNES featured better and more accurate music, colors, graphics and sound effects even more spot on than the Sega CD version. The closest home port to the arcade of the original MK was the PC version around that time.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Munchy on September 20, 2013, 01:40:31 AM
Pros - They have some great IPs and their recent hardware has caused some developers to think outside the box (ugh, fuck that phrase but you know what I mean). Also, they rescued Bayonetta 2.

Cons - They refuse to localize some games and then claim that NOT making their consoles region free is somehow conducive to a global market. And other interface things that they could make convenient, but choose not to (friend codes, anyone?).
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Pfil on September 20, 2013, 05:13:45 PM
If its it, they didnt change it because its not broken.
That's Nintendo. If that's fine, don't change it.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: X on September 20, 2013, 10:37:12 PM
Quote
That's Nintendo. If that's fine, don't change it.

Exactly. Let other companies make or break themselves with new and/or radical innovations. If and when it works for them, Nintendo will no-doubt find some form of application for it as well.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Johnny on September 21, 2013, 02:52:58 AM
Nintendo revived the video game console, and is now dancing on the edge of a knife with the second in a series of gimmick consoles.

Well if that's true so are the other consoles. Kinect and Move came along a couple of months right after Wii did. So to criticize Nintendo for this would mean to criticize all of the big 3. Not really fair to single only them out on gimmicks.

Also think of how in the past many of the big wigs at Xerox thought the PC Mouse was a silly gimmick when their Palo Alto Research Center first showcased it to them.

Steve Jobs visits Xerox Palo Alto Research Center in 1979 (dramatization) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u70CgBr-OI#)

Amazing now how one silly gimmick is now widely used. The same trend seems to be occurring with motion gaming. Even though many may see it as a silly gimmick, it is now a staple feature in not just Nintendo's consoles but Sony's and Microsoft's as well.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 21, 2013, 03:14:08 AM
I remember how Bill Gates stolen Apple ideas and used it to make Windows, inside Apple HQ under Steve Jobs nose.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Johnny on September 21, 2013, 03:39:43 AM
I remember how Bill Gates stolen Apple ideas and used it to make Windows, inside Apple HQ under Steve Jobs nose.

Well its been said by tons of sources that Microsoft has no originality. Most of their ideas are second hand ideas. Check out this article about the Kinect from 2011:

http://hackaday.com/2011/07/14/did-microsoft-steal-the-kinect/ (http://hackaday.com/2011/07/14/did-microsoft-steal-the-kinect/)

See now this is the thing with Nintendo is that even if say you don't like their direction or "gimmicks" its still their own ideas and their own risks they are taking. Virtual Boy for example was a huge risk that never paid off but it was still a creative risk Nintendo took and was the first handheld of its kind at the time. I have to give credit where credit is due and for anyone to say, Nintendo has gimmicks and crappy ideas is completely irrelevant IMO. All companies have gimmicks but it makes it 10 times worse when those gimmicks turn out to be second hand gimmicks rather than original concepts.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 21, 2013, 03:50:59 AM
One idea Bill Gates didn't steal from Apple: licensing software instead of requiring proprietary hardware. Hence why Apple was nearly dead in the mid 90's and Microsoft was on top of the world.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Johnny on September 21, 2013, 04:14:07 AM
One idea Bill Gates didn't steal from Apple: licensing software instead of requiring proprietary hardware. Hence why Apple was nearly dead in the mid 90's and Microsoft was on top of the world.

Actually you're forgetting about the Microsoft Surface RT which has a proprietary charger port. I think that counts as requiring proprietary hardware.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Beaumont_Belmont on September 21, 2013, 04:19:49 AM
Be that as it may, I was specifically referring to the 1980's and 90's, when Apple nearly went under.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 21, 2013, 04:27:22 AM
More Nintendo cons:

http://kotaku.com/5982965/nintendo-fan-is-unhappy-with-nintendos-200-answer-to-his-400-wii-u-problem (http://kotaku.com/5982965/nintendo-fan-is-unhappy-with-nintendos-200-answer-to-his-400-wii-u-problem)

http://boingboing.net/2013/05/18/nintendo-claims-ownership-over.html (http://boingboing.net/2013/05/18/nintendo-claims-ownership-over.html)

Also I found these 2 while searching for this one, that I remembered more or less:
http://mynintendonews.com/2013/03/13/nintendo-to-pay-former-sony-employee-30-2-million-for-infringement-over-glasses-free-3ds-tech/ (http://mynintendonews.com/2013/03/13/nintendo-to-pay-former-sony-employee-30-2-million-for-infringement-over-glasses-free-3ds-tech/)

Yes, Nintendo stole this 3d screen idea, sadly.




Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Johnny on September 21, 2013, 01:10:35 PM
Nintendo resurrected console gaming. They did so by ruthless tactics which forced out competition. (Like the poor Master System.) But also by enforcing then much-needed quality control to avoid the deluge of substandard games that had choked off the Atari 2600 and indeed most of the American video game industry. I think their policy of focusing on the actual game experience rather than technology is the personification of what used to be the entire argument for and advantage of consoles before they just became overpriced proprietary PCs. As the end of the traditional console seems to loom larger and larger I think Nintendo is a company that has a good chance to exist on the strength of their IPs. Even when consoles are finally consumed by the all-encompassing central PC-media center that seems to be increasingly inevitable for the future.

Well that's it. I mean people probably recognize Mario these days as well as they could Big Bird or Ronald McDonald. I think if you took any old casual person off the street who doesn't play many video games they would sooner recognize Mario over Master Chief or Ratchet and Clank. So yes recognizable IPs is a huge advantage for Nintendo.

Be that as it may, I was specifically referring to the 1980's and 90's, when Apple nearly went under.

True I mean to this day I can't really stand Apple for overcharging for everything they make and having lots of limitations but I can't stand Microsoft either. Still to this day its far far less expensive to build your own PC and throw a retail copy of Windows on it than it is to buy a Mac Pro Desktop.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: KaZudra on September 22, 2013, 03:42:44 PM
Not to mention Mac specs are more outrageous to the price than even Alienware at times...

Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 22, 2013, 05:07:17 PM
Pros: Nintendo makes us laugh at some E3 events.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.videogameologists.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F05%2FWiiMusic.gif&hash=017d1383eba800047f3e3bb08e6fb0cbac0baecb)
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Inccubus on September 22, 2013, 10:45:56 PM
I think this pic speaks volumes about Nintendo. These are the guys in charge of a gaming company. Sony and Microsoft have a bunch of suits.

From left to right: President of Nintendo Inc. Satoru Iwata. President of Nintendo of America, Reggie Fils-Aime. Nintendo Producer and legendary creator of Mario, Donkey Kong, and Zelda, Shigeru Miyamoto. Yeap. Miyamoto-san in a life sized DKC barrel cannon. These are dudes I could feel confident working for in a game company.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 22, 2013, 10:51:42 PM
Ha!  That pic is awesome! :D
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 23, 2013, 01:56:13 AM
You did it! You found a photo with Reggie and DK in the same image, I ever thought that they were almost identic and now I can see that I was right. Maybe Reggie is DK Jr. grown up :)
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Pfil on September 23, 2013, 03:56:23 PM
Pros: Nintendo makes us laugh at some E3 events.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.videogameologists.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F05%2FWiiMusic.gif&hash=017d1383eba800047f3e3bb08e6fb0cbac0baecb)
Haha! Who is this guy?

I always get angry at Reggie when he speaks about subjects I don't care and don't mention the games >:(
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 23, 2013, 04:20:04 PM
From here:

Top 5 Best and Worst Nintendo E3 Moments (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci4rx4loGXQ#ws)


You can see more here:
Wii Music E3 2008 Gameplay Part 1 (HD) (Ravi) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_Bd-13YCk#ws)

Wii Music E3 2008 Gameplay Part 2 (HD) (Ravi) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGmkPqk-Ly4#ws)

Wii Music E3 2008 Gameplay Part 3 (HD) (Ravi) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d5kiu5zj2s#ws)
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Pfil on September 23, 2013, 08:36:26 PM
So funny!  :P
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Neobelmont on September 23, 2013, 10:05:01 PM
It's nintendo what can I say about them?

I'll just post a few all right?

As for the pros: The famicom/nes, their franchises, saved gaming, some of the greatest minds in gaming came from the big n. From Miyamoto to Iwata to Tajrii to Sakurai to Yokoi ( R.I.P) I can go on.

The cons. While they have alot of franchises nintendo also does not concentrate on them some are forgotten and just locked away for years. Remember when there were no metroid games till fusion/prime no n64 games or anything, or how we only got one of the fire emblem games on the ds we missed the whole second part! The wait for a new kid icarus, no new f-zero for how long? How about golden sun? I freaking love this franchise and when the third one comes out all most no one bought it especially when compared to the first two titles and I remember the commercial for DD wha? It's like GS was an after thought for nintendo and that really is disappointing and while DD is good it did not have the same effect like the first two did. GS and the lost age were amazing like DAMN kind of amazing DD did not have that effect. And of course Mother yes I know Earthbound was released on the wii-u vc but no Mother 1 or 3. No new Startropics hell even Mach rider could use a reboot if done right.

My other complaint is that I have little interest in their console offerings and lack of third party support (do not mention sega to me please don't one company does not change my view on this). After the SNES nintendo lost alot of power imo. Back then So many third parties companies were behind them and some of their very best titles were on the Snes like Enix with DQ and Square with FF, Namco with Tales of Phantasia, Capcom with MM and others, Konami with Cv and when the ps came they lost alot of that remember any really good n64 third parties compared to playstation?   There are probably a couple one can name but what did ps have Resident evil, Metal gear, Soul blade, Tekken, not only that but the big rpg juggernauts went to ps and we know how that ended Nintendo went from top dog to second, afterwards with xbox they went to third. I think every one knows where I'm going with this but man come on.

And my last con is kind of odd while I do enjoy gameplay over just pure graphics it's nice to have them. I'm not going to lie when I got LoS and tales of vesperia on the x360 I was like WOW they look very good there are more but... The only wii games to get that were muramasa, mario galaxy, and skyward sword. From my understanding the Snes was a powerful system for it's time (compared to say a neo-geo scratch that off)  compared to the tg-16(with out cd add on) and genesis( I do not feel the need to explain the senseless add ons) it was the more powerful of the three and had a good price. N64 was good but iirc the cartridges just could not hold as much as a cd but the carts IIRC they had little to no loadtimes, gc was all right, but the wii was way less powerful than the 360/ps3 and now from my understanding the  wii-u is set to contend with the 360/ps3 not the xbone/ps4.  So all what I am saying is that Nintendo stop beating around the bush and make a system that stands with the best of them... Again Just something on the same level again yes I do understand that affordability is one thing nintendo does concentrate on but nah console wise they gotta step up on their hardware and their relationship with third parties I should have a gang load of nintendo console releases but I don't handhelds yes oh yes but I'm disappointed with how little console games I have. Is it that bad to have up to date graphics and good gameplay and a strong third party involvement (yeah nintendo has a strict policy but again look at the snes it rocked)? 

I do wonder if I came off as a I want only graphics over gameplay guy. Also if some information is wrong correct me this is stuff that's been in the back of my head for awhile.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 24, 2013, 12:33:19 AM
Nintendo went from top dog to second, afterwards with xbox they went to third. I think every one knows where I'm going with this but man come on.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3d4.turboimagehost.com%2Ft1%2F13720699_media_preview.php.gif&hash=a84cd5005e5966e5a11cf097c2d0789b6ec94345)

Sorry, that was my reaction. I know its your opinion, but since I think different its funny to me, even more when you say this about xbox.

From my understanding the Snes was a powerful system for it's time (compared to say a neo-geo scratch that off)  compared to the tg-16(with out cd add on) and genesis( I do not feel the need to explain the senseless add ons) it was the more powerful of the three and had a good price. N64 was good but iirc the cartridges just could not hold as much as a cd but the carts IIRC they had little to no loadtimes, gc was all right, but the wii was way less powerful than the 360/ps3 and now from my understanding the  wii-u is set to contend with the 360/ps3 not the xbone/ps4.  So all what I am saying is that Nintendo stop beating around the bush and make a system that stands with the best of them... Again Just something on the same level again yes I do understand that affordability is one thing nintendo does concentrate on but nah console wise they gotta step up on their hardware and their relationship with third parties I should have a gang load of nintendo console releases but I don't handhelds yes oh yes but I'm disappointed with how little console games I have. Is it that bad to have up to date graphics and good gameplay and a strong third party involvement (yeah nintendo has a strict policy but again look at the snes it rocked)?

You want a Nintendo console with great hardware right? But you know that Game Cube was superior to PS2 and 360 in graphics and had good support of thirdies but even so lose the battle? Just because its too expensive, I know some people that have NEVER heard about or seen a Game Cube, even if it was cheap in USA, at least here it was expensive. I think thats why Nintendo adopted a new tactic in focusing much more in innovation over graphics.



Now back on topic about these last years, if Nintendo is so weak on thirdies, why Bayonetta that was exclusive to 360 and Monster Hunter that was exclusive to PS2 are coming to Wii U? Bayonetta 2 is exclusive to Wii U and the main Monster Hunter titles are Nintendo exclusive since Monter Hunter Tri (3). The problem isnt Nintendo, its third-parties excluding Nintendo from their game schedule. Look at the selling charts and you will see that Nintendo stills on the top sales since Wii. Wii U isnt selling well because thirdies arent helping much, but even so they are doing wonders with the titles that they have.

What is even more funny is how I see in a lot of sites about how Nintendo is doomed or how their sales are bad, only to discover that they are the actual top-sellers. So or they are blatantly lying (maybe because they are being paid to give false news about Nintendo) or if they are correct and Nintendo is doomed, these another companies are already dead and dont know. Its not even my opinion in this statement, its statistics.


And my last con is kind of odd while I do enjoy gameplay over just pure graphics it's nice to have them. I'm not going to lie when I got LoS and tales of vesperia on the x360 I was like WOW they look very good there are more but... The only wii games to get that were muramasa, mario galaxy, and skyward sword.

You've never seen Xenoblade Chronicles and Monster Hunter Tri do you? These games are really beautiful, you should check them sometime. :)




I do wonder if I came off as a I want only graphics over gameplay guy. Also if some information is wrong correct me this is stuff that's been in the back of my head for awhile.

Corrected how I could. While you sounded like a "graphics" guy, theres nothing wrong with it, its your opinion.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Pfil on September 24, 2013, 02:54:27 AM
I think Microsoft is the clown of VG's industry, and Xbox 360 the biggest loser ever in terms of exclusive games.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 24, 2013, 03:22:23 AM
I think Microsoft is the clown of VG's industry, and Xbox 360 the biggest loser ever in terms of exclusive games.

Yes, I think that for this 360 is the winne....!
(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Neobelmont on September 24, 2013, 07:23:06 AM
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Sorry, that was my reaction. I know its your opinion, but since I think different its funny to me, even more when you say this about xbox.

 :rollseyes:

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You want a Nintendo console with great hardware right? But you know that Game Cube was superior to PS2 and 360 in graphics and had good support of thirdies but even so lose the battle? Just because its too expensive, I know some people that have NEVER heard about or seen a Game Cube, even if it was cheap in USA, at least here it was expensive. I think thats why Nintendo adopted a new tactic in focusing much more in innovation over graphics.

No I did not entierly but with soul calibur 2, Resident evil remake,0,4 and more.... Maybe I was a bit hasty but the gc was not the absolutely most powerful out of the big three or four from this article I just found I will say I am new at understanding processing power and stuff but from what I am reading out of the four gc was second I'm surprised I guess the saying big things come in small packages does apply here.   Yes it's wikipedia but this did give me better understanding of what you were saying.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_video_game_consoles_(sixth_generation)#Bits_and_system_power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_video_game_consoles_(sixth_generation)#Bits_and_system_power)

But still ehh even if the facts are in front of my face dang why hold back on the wii why hold ones punch back just for the sake of innovation can't one do both? Mhhh I can't agree with that at first I loved my wii but make no mistake after time I did lose interest in it ds on the other hand  ;D You can't beat nintendo when it comes to handhelds.  This really came into my mind after awhile like dang why is the wii not more powerful but now it is starting to make more sense.

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Now back on topic about these last years, if Nintendo is so weak on thirdies, why Bayonetta that was exclusive to 360 and Monster Hunter that was exclusive to PS2 are coming to Wii U? Bayonetta 2 is exclusive to Wii U and the main Monster Hunter titles are Nintendo exclusive since Monter Hunter Tri (3). The problem isnt Nintendo, its third-parties excluding Nintendo from their game schedule. Look at the selling charts and you will see that Nintendo stills on the top sales since Wii. Wii U isnt selling well because thirdies arent helping much, but even so they are doing wonders with the titles that they have.
 

Nintendo has been known to be a bit of a tyrant when it comes to third party I was watching all your history are belong to us and Nintendo did things that in the end really messed them up. Like their hand in creating the playstation and so on. But regardless yay for bayonetta 2 -_- and monster hunter.... Just two things And I'm not trying to say that their games are bad but just having MH and sega on their side are not enough granted it's just the start of the systems life but one should be able to say more than just these two games I do like superheros and the wonderful 101 seems all right and I honestly want to hear more about shin megami tensei x fire emblem (this will infact be the system seller for me).  Also most of the third parties are on other systems with maybe the exception of maybe zombie-u and some others and since I do not own a wii-u I cannot say anything more than that. Point is I should be able to state a bunch of games for the system but I can't. Again maybe it's to early for me to judge but nintendo can't always rely on first and second party games right? The reason why Nintendo won back in the 16-bit was because of awesome third party support which is odd since they were strict. But if history has shown with the n64 and gc they will "lose" again on the console front if the can not get that third party support. I do think that the wii while having some great games just did not have enough.

 I still stand with what I say and this is only for home consoles not handhelds if that kind of support could transfer into the wii-u I would not be saying anything I have more handheld nintendo games than I do Console games and to me that says something.

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What is even more funny is how I see in a lot of sites about how Nintendo is doomed or how their sales are bad, only to discover that they are the actual top-sellers. So or they are blatantly lying (maybe because they are being paid to give false news about Nintendo) or if they are correct and Nintendo is doomed, these another companies are already dead and dont know. Its not even my opinion in this statement, its statistics.

ehh I don't think nintendo is doomed sale wise their first/second party games are good with the exception of maybe a few Golden Sun Dark Dawn did not do that well but kid icarus uprising did.

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You've never seen Xenoblade Chronicles and Monster Hunter Tri do you? These games are really beautiful, you should check them sometime. :)

Oh I have  8)  more so Xenoblade Chronicles because I have it and I do agree with ya on that it looks wonderful  :) and from what I remembered X looks awesome as well. Monster hunter I think I gave it like two tries already once on the psp again on the 3ds and I got sick of it that stupid camera control and this is from some who found Gods eater burst to be good. The control was just perfect for this monster hunting kind of game soul sacrifice I can't say much on since I do not have a personaified 4 vita  :P



Corrected how I could. While you sounded like a "graphics" guy, theres nothing wrong with it, its your opinion.


I'm not a graphics I just like to play what I want but being spoiled never hurt either sometimes right  ;) But hey if Nintendo had a system closer to the new consoles coming out I really do think third party publishers would be having a different tune but I guess looking back at this it was really more the third part support or lack of it that disappoints me and how Nintendo does not treat all their Ips with the same respect as zelda,mario, or pokemon.

I think Microsoft is the clown of VG's industry, and Xbox 360 the biggest loser ever in terms of exclusive games.

Years ago when the first xbox came out Ninja gaiden was the talk of the town and do not forget about panzer drgoon orta and shenmue 2  ;) as for 360 Tales of Vesperia likes to say hi since we did not get the ps3 version that's all I got and there is otomedius but hey take that for what it's worth I dig it. And xbox live did get soul calibur so it's not that bad  :P I like the big N and sony really got me during the ps2 era onimusha, dmc, and so much others I'm actually kind of over xbox after that xbone drama I was like pass.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: shelverton. on September 24, 2013, 07:40:54 AM
PROS:

They make great games, many of which are system sellers for me (and for many other people as well). No other company can compare here, IMO.

CONS:

They make outdated, gimmicky consoles that I don't want to buy. In a perfect world, Nintendo would be third party, releasing their games on PS and XBOX. That way they could take advantage of the vastly superior technology their competitors are using, concentrating on making the actual games. Well, they could keep making handhelds cause they're pretty good at that.

And no, graphics isn't everything. But having to buy a console (WiiU) that is roughly as powerful as consoles that I've already owned for 6-7 years, only to be able to play great games, is infuriating. I don't want to buy new hardware to get (soon-to-be) last-gen tech. Simple as that. Will I do it anyway? Absolutely. Cause Mario rocks.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Johnny on September 24, 2013, 02:25:01 PM
PROS:

They make great games, many of which are system sellers for me (and for many other people as well). No other company can compare here, IMO.

CONS:

They make outdated, gimmicky consoles that I don't want to buy. In a perfect world, Nintendo would be third party, releasing their games on PS and XBOX. That way they could take advantage of the vastly superior technology their competitors are using, concentrating on making the actual games. Well, they could keep making handhelds cause they're pretty good at that.

And no, graphics isn't everything. But having to buy a console (WiiU) that is roughly as powerful as consoles that I've already owned for 6-7 years, only to be able to play great games, is infuriating. I don't want to buy new hardware to get (soon-to-be) last-gen tech. Simple as that. Will I do it anyway? Absolutely. Cause Mario rocks.

In a perfect world, the console market would be like the PC Market. Instead of all this fragmentation, you could build your own console or buy brands, and the console OS is pretty much the same across all the consoles. This way you could pick and choose the games you like and play them where you want. Though I think all in all a console is pretty much a Gaming PC with controller pads any ways. If you dual booted Wii OS, XBox OS, or Playstation OS on one machine, you could just buy a game and play it regardless of who made it. Just like how it is on Steam. No exclusives, no hype, none of that.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: shelverton. on September 24, 2013, 02:42:35 PM
In a perfect world, the console market would be like the PC Market. Instead of all this fragmentation, you could build your own console or buy brands, and the console OS is pretty much the same across all the consoles. This way you could pick and choose the games you like and play them where you want. Though I think all in all a console is pretty much a Gaming PC with controller pads any ways. If you dual booted Wii OS, XBox OS, or Playstation OS on one machine, you could just buy a game and play it regardless of who made it. Just like how it is on Steam. No exclusives, no hype, none of that.

I completely agree. Though one might wonder what would happen in terms of, say, pricing if there was only one console manufacturer... They could potentially charge whatever they'd like. Though on the other hand, we'd only have to buy ONE console, so I guess I could live with it being somewhat overpriced.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Pfil on September 24, 2013, 03:47:14 PM
Or maybe in a perfect world Sony and Nintendo would be allies and make an all powerful console with N and Sony brands, and Microsoft would just stick to PC's. That would be helpful for them making a Windows that works fine, by the way. Like a Windows that works like Linux.

Or more than that: Nintendo and Sony would make their games for PC, so we don't have to buy 3 consoles and 2 portables every generation just to play the exclusives we like. I would like that.

@Neobelmont: I agree, and I was super excited with X360 with Eternal Sonata, Dead or Alive Xtreme 2, Blue Dragon... but then, they lost almost all exclusives, including Tales of Vesperia. And on top of that, the console breaks. I had one that broke. I still have one in my mom's house. I have many X360 games and there's a lot of them I like.
But I think that in terms of great exclusive games, they lose with PS3 and the best one is the Wii, though it is the less powerful console.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Johnny on September 24, 2013, 05:54:03 PM
Or more than that: Nintendo and Sony would make their games for PC, so we don't have to buy 3 consoles and 2 portables every generation just to play the exclusives we like. I would like that.

Exactly! So would I :D Then that would mean you could just design your own PC for gaming and all games would be available for what you have. There would be no console companies just game companies which means pricing on games would be better as everyone would be in competition.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Pfil on September 24, 2013, 07:33:40 PM
That would be the perfect world!  :)
We live on this world, however...
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: X on September 25, 2013, 01:30:29 AM
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Or maybe in a perfect world Sony and Nintendo would be allies and make an all powerful console with N and Sony brands

They did that once already and the result was the Super Nintendo. That's why it had the best sound because SONY gave the system its sound technology. It would be nice to see them team up once more to make another 'super' console.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 25, 2013, 01:59:42 AM
They did that once already and the result was the Super Nintendo. That's why it had the best sound because SONY gave the system its sound technology. It would be nice to see them team up once more to make another 'super' console.

Well, if Sony didnt have backstabbed them, they could :P

Nintendo has been known to be a bit of a tyrant when it comes to third party I was watching all your history are belong to us and Nintendo did things that in the end really messed them up. Like their hand in creating the playstation and so on.

They steal companies rights and make it their slaves. :P
I know that Nintendo had a system where if you wanted to make a game for a Nintendo console, you wont be able to release it for another system.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: X on September 25, 2013, 02:49:10 PM
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Well, if Sony didnt have backstabbed them, they could :P

Not really. From what I read about the situation SONY decided to go solo and make their own CD system because Nintendo did a one-two on them even when the two were rearing to go with the new SNES CD adaption. Here's the history if you're interested;

http://www.1up.com/features/15-years-cd-i (http://www.1up.com/features/15-years-cd-i)
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 25, 2013, 10:01:04 PM
Thanks for the link, I like to read and be more certain about things than expeculate and say wrong information xD

edit:"It was at this point that Sony, through clever legal wrangling, secured the rights to both license and retain publishing profits derived from the dual-compatible CD-ROM software on the Super Nintendo and Play Station. Nintendo, having a history of being notoriously strict with its control over software licensing, did not react to this news very well. In fact, Nintendo decided to end its agreement with Sony to manufacture of the SNES CD-ROM hardware right then and there."

Yes, this doesnt sound very right to me, they tried to be smart and do something that old Nintendo wont be so happy and that ruined everything.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Neobelmont on September 26, 2013, 12:26:27 AM
Nintendo Part 1: Leave Luck To Heaven (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0gNaUib4UU#ws)

Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 26, 2013, 01:22:41 AM
OMG, Hiroshi at 1:51, his pose is almost the same from these news' photos about his death, alsoi he really aged well since I could tell that its him before they said his name in this video.

OMG2 at Gunpei Yokoi making toys.
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Neobelmont on September 26, 2013, 02:04:11 AM
OMG, Hiroshi at 1:51, his pose is almost the same from these news' photos about his death, alsoi he really aged well since I could tell that its him before they said his name in this video.

OMG2 at Gunpei Yokoi making toys.

Yokoi was the man. But there are six parts this is one of them the one I was talking about nintendo shooting themselves in the foot.

Nintendo Part 4: Revenge Is A Disc Best Served Cold (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIcVajVMHgU#ws)
Title: Re: Nintendo - pros and cons, debate, etc.
Post by: Lelygax on September 26, 2013, 09:55:58 PM
Calm down sonny, Im watching all these parts but I need time xD
They are really good, so be sure that I will watch all of them.