The only thing that could save the N64 titles would be a complete remake, from the ground up.
When comes right down to it; the N64 games failed to have good gameplay, unable to transition itself properly into a 3D space.
I do agree with this. The engine itself would need to be a built from the ground-up as it is very dated. I've gotten used to CV 64/LoD's physics over my many play-throughs, but but a remake would need a totally new engine for today's standards. But only so long as they keep it simple and not go the LoS route ie sponge enemies and ridiculous amounts of attack combos that waste my f**k'n time for no good reason. I'd be okay with it otherwise.Exactly. No QTEs would also be nice. They suck!
The only thing that could save the N64 titles would be a complete remake, from the ground up.
When comes right down to it; the N64 games failed to have good gameplay, unable to transition itself properly into a 3D space.
Well that's what I mean. If the game were made today it likely wouldn't have the same engine that it had on the N64 but rather a more advanced engine. I'm talking storyline, plot, environments, etc etc. Would the game be marketable as a new game with extra features had we never known about or played Castlevania 64 or Castlevania LOD before.
Though you do propose an interesting idea with what you're saying. A reimagining of Castlevania LOD/64 is a great concept. If someone put some work into something like that and Mighty No 9'd the concept (making a Castlevania LOD-like game and calling it something else with new characters) I would certainly back it on Kickstarter.
If it was released today in HD with better graphics, voices, and even some extra areas could this game be as good if not exceed the PS2 Castlevania games and/or the Lords of Shadow series. How do these 3D titles compare for the better and for the worst as compared to some of the other 3D titles? Some peoples opinions actually have been that Legacy of Darkness actually tops Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness. Seeing as how its non canonical to the series where would it take the series if it was released today?
How do these 3D titles compare for the better and for the worst as compared to some of the other 3D titles?Well, they have worse graphics and play control, but they have better characters, story, level design, and atmosphere.
Call it Legacy of Shadows instead of Legacy of Darkness, then we can have a 3D game called LoS that erases what LoS really stands for from our minds :P j/k
Exactly. No QTEs would also be nice. They suck!
The only thing that could save the N64 titles would be a complete remake, from the ground up.
When comes right down to it; the N64 games failed to have good gameplay, unable to transition itself properly into a 3D space.
The 64 games were a 3D representation of the 2D combat system which is what they were intended to be. 3D gaming was really in its infancy back when those games were released. They were a bit raw in places but I think they ultimately were a good representation of the classicvania formula but in 3D
Exactly. I mean, you can tweak the combat, but it doesn't need to be totally redone. Tacking on all these modern combos is a flawed notion, as that means you're taking away emphasis from level/game design to make it an elaborate beat-em-up, which isn't a part of Castlevania's definition.
The combat was inherently flawed by trying to be a 3D implementation of the 2D combat system. It was just broken by default. It doesn't get bonus points for being the first attempt, if it utterly fails at what it's doing.
Look at the difference between Zelda's first 3D outing and 64/LoD. 64/LoD just looks like utter shit in comparison. They even had a re-release to get it right and still failed.
Good designers rethink with new technologies. Poor designers take the old as they knew it, and try to shoehorn it into the new when it doesn't fit.
In conclusion; The game is just broken. It needs a straight up re-imagining. And by re-imagining I don't mean Lords of Shadow.
The way it tracks enemies is actually the best aspect of the combat.
If the re-imagining were up to me, my first thought on the combat would be to rethink about the use of a whip in 3D space. Whips have multiple uses, especially for controlling 3D space. The basic philosophy behind Lords of Shadow's desing is actually very good. They have two main attack methods. One controls direct target situations, while the other controls situations where you're surrounded. This was not very well executed in lords of Shadow int he end, but the basic concept is very solid.
I would go with a multiple whip action, via different buttons, system for combat. One button would act primarily how it does already in CV64 ("Direct Attack"). It targets an enemy within your viewing range, and makes a locked on direct and aimed strike to the enemy. The key difference I would implement into this system is the reduction of cool down. Not by too much, but just enough to get the following effect.
When you see someone actually use a whip in real life, often strikes with the whip can cause the whip to swing back around and come back to the other side of the person, to which you can repeat that move, but mirrored, and it brings the whip back to it's starting position. You can attack with a whip continuously like this in a cycle.
Have this type of animation playing, where the strikes are physically identical, and do the same precision aiming. Just reduce the cool down so it cycles in a fluid animation. Since you can attack a little more rapidly, reduce the damage by a degree.
The second kind of attack would be 3D space control ("Area Attack"). Much like the later 3D titles, a circular strike around the character. This would be effectively a "get off my back" move. Itll send any enemy around you into hit stun, but this attack cannot be spammed as it has a larger cool down. It is meant to get out of being surrounded, with the next feature...
A dodge roll, to get out of sticky situations. It can cancel a Direct Attack, but not an Area Attack. While you cannot directly attack out of a dodge roll, perhaps some sub weapons have a special condition. What if you could drop Holy Water as you dodge out of the way? Would be a nice way to trick enemies into extra damage.
Lastly, off the top of my head, I would add in the ability to grab enemies, and maybe environment objects, with the whip. Especially for the use of whip swinging. This is something that SCVIV started to do, but was dropped from just about any other game. And yes I am aware that the CV64 prototype was trying to implement this having a whip swing, but it ultimately did not make it in.
Instead of adding a button for this, perhaps when you hold down the button when doing a Direct Attack, instead of tapping it, it'll trigger you to attempt to grab the the enemy and reel them in or something. This also works for swinging hooks. So you don't accidentally grab one when you mean to attack, you must hold the button down.
This is just my initial thoughts for 5 minutes. Think of what a talented development team could do with more time to fully bring the idea to life.
Sadly we're all overlooked by Konami :'(
Oh, but companies always usually ignored fans, it's not Kickstarter and current market state's fault.
The sad thing is that Konami owns CV so we can't rely on Kickstarter for that.
We can for other great games, though. Just not CV. Not for now.
They couldnt do anything about a Casltevania-like game, since a lot of them already exists from small and big companies; If they say something about a hero using a whip they will fail instantly because of La Mulana and Indiana Jones.
Want a example?(click to show/hide)
Ah, I would love to see another Legacy of Kain game...
Want a example? Look at this game that a random company called Lords of Shadow, they did a game very similar to Castlevania and are selling it without problem.Do you it's very similar? Really?
Ah, I would love to see another Legacy of Kain game...
Do you it's very similar? Really?
What if they made a new Bloodrayne Betrayal but with an all-new name?
Would that be CV without the name?
No, this sentence is entirely a joke xDReally? What do you here?
Well not sure what the game is like but if you take most games with the same horror element to them many are similar. It just all depends on the execution as to whether or not it will actually be unique, amusing to play, and at the same time just have that feel. Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver IMO captured the feeling of Castlevania and yet was unique in its own right. Raziel could be described as the Alucard of the game.I'll have to check that game, I only know the cover, I never actually saw gameplay.
The music was even great in Castlevania LOD/64. Could you imagine orchestrated updated music? That would be pretty awesome.
The music was even great in Castlevania LOD/64. Could you imagine orchestrated updated music? That would be pretty awesome.I like it the way it is, I believe I wouldn't want it orchestrated. It would lose part of its charm and mystic.
I can. But at the same time I wouldn't want it to be overly complex in sound as the simplicity of CV64/LoD's tracks are what helped give the game its unmistakable atmosphere. They could update the synth with current, realistic instrumentation, but I wouldn't want them to go beyond that. I had noticed that there were a couple of tracks from CV64 that had been made over just for LoD and I still feel that they are inferior when compared to their CV64 counterparts. They added an extra instrumentation when it was not needed and I feel strongly that this has detracted from the feeling that CV64 had captured.
Ah, I would love to see another Legacy of Kain game...
Though it would be tricky to adapt the unique N64 controls to a modern gamepad.
The Legacy of Kain series was outstanding. Have to make do with upcoming free-to-play game, Nosgoth:This doesn't bode too well. Legacy of Kain isn't the type of franchise you'd consider adapting for a free-to-play PC game. This is essentially a business choice, and not much else; my warning bells are sounding.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-25-this-is-what-nosgoth-the-f2p-multiplayer-legacy-of-kain-game-looks-like (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-25-this-is-what-nosgoth-the-f2p-multiplayer-legacy-of-kain-game-looks-like)
I don't think you could really make a game like CV64/LoD today, at least not outside of the Indie market. It's got a beautiful unique artstyle and pace you just don't see anymore. As someone else mentioned earlier in the thread one of the best things about these games was just looking at the environments after the enemies have been killed, listening to the wonderful music. Really soaking in the atmosphere and story.
That's something we'd already lost by the time LoI came out, while that is a good game it's much less about atmosphere and feeling like you're really experiencing a haunted Castle, and more about hallways connecting set pieces. Today, when you strip out the platforming and signature Castlevania elements and throw in needlessly long combos and QTEs... it's much much worse.
HOWEVER if we got an upscaled re-release of these games, perhaps with some control tweaks for CV64, I would be very happy. Though it would be tricky to adapt the unique N64 controls to a modern gamepad. Sadly given the negativity that unfairly surrounds these games today I don't think we're likely to see anything like that for a long time if at all.
The indie market still does give it a chance though. So I dunno seeing it done and done well by an indie dev would be just as good if not better than Konami could do it.
Improve the camera, add a save-anywhere-not-in-combat feature (or reconfigure the infamous Nitro puzzle) and give it a few shiny graphical touches, and I bet it would sell a fair few units.
How far away is a save anywhere except in battle feature from playing a rom where you can save state, or using a game genie/ game shark? These games today with their infinite health/save constantly features take away more than they give, IMO. What they take away is strategy, skill, and most importantly the feeling of accomplishment. Goes perfectly with today's instant results generation.
A save crystal here and there is good enough and players should be thankful they even get that.
How far away is a save anywhere except in battle feature from playing a rom where you can save state, or using a game genie/ game shark? These games today with their infinite health/save constantly features take away more than they give, IMO. What they take away is strategy, skill, and most importantly the feeling of accomplishment. Goes perfectly with today's instant results generation.
A save crystal here and there is good enough and players should be thankful they even get that.
Have played Tomb Raider for PSX? It work very well, but costs a item to save. This shows how to do it right.Are you sure? This kind of a system would be far too arbitrary to work well with a game like LoD.
The problem is that even right it can backfire on the player, since you can save with low health and no items, meaning that sometimes you will need to restart the game from 0 (its rare, but happened at least 1 or 2 times with us here).Exactly. And it'll probably happen more often than you might think. If you're low on health, or find yourself in a difficult situation, it might be a critical mistake to save your game -- you'll often be forced to start over entirely. And yet, when we're given that option, that's precisely what many of us do; it's compulsive, a survival reflex. So implementing this "free" save system isn't the best of ideas.