Castlevania Dungeon Forums

Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: Abnormal Freak on November 16, 2013, 09:18:05 PM

Title: Hellsing
Post by: Abnormal Freak on November 16, 2013, 09:18:05 PM
It's been discussed plenty, so why not give it its own thread?

I just finished up the entire Hellsing Ultimate series, and this right here is the most perfect way to end it:

NSFW
(click to show/hide)

a Seras Victoria panty shot.
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Ratty on November 16, 2013, 09:42:12 PM
I edited your post so no one will get in trouble for browsing the site at work, hope this doesn't annoy you.

But yeah I still haven't seen all of Hellsing Ultimate because Funi hasn't dubbed IX and X yet. But when I read the manga years ago I thought that was an appropriate and humorous touch to end with. Hellsing was always a tasteslessly over the top exploitation piece, that was the whole point. But even though Kouta Hirano was admittedly a giant perv (I've heard his last "author's notes" in the original serialization were about how much he wanted to get with a soap commercial lady and Sarah Palin.) he was surprisingly restrained with actual "fanservice". Unless you count Seras's bust ("Those are bigger than her head!" as one voice actress noted in a Hellsing Ultimate audio commentary) and outfit as automatic fanservice. Considering all the disturbing things you see leading up to it, saving the only pantyshot in the series for the last chapter and putting it in a place you can't miss it is a pretty good visual pun.
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Abnormal Freak on November 16, 2013, 10:46:19 PM
Her outfit is some definite fanservice but even there it's underplayed. I actually don't remember that shot from the manga—actually, I'd forgotten much of how it even ends, so it was like seeing it all with new eyes (well, it was, 'cos it's animooted). I like the fact that the fanservice appeal is surprisingly low-key.

I'm all sub Nazi so I just looked up the last two episodes on YouTube. Who knows how long FUNimation will take with that? It'll be kind of a lonely final set with just two episodes and two The Dawn shorts.

Speakin'a which, I wonder if Dark Horse or someone will translate The Dawn. I've been waiting years to read that and I generally don't care to seek out fan translations primarily because I don't like reading comics on a computer screen.

I'm about to watch the Hellsing TV series for the third time. First time was probably ten years ago, last time was maybe seven or eight, so I'm curious to see how much I still like it. I never minded that it strayed so much from the manga (besides, it was my exposure to Hellsing), I loved the music and stories they came up with, and I doubt I'll be bothered by the cheapness of the animation* because I remember from the first viewing thinking it was pretty primitive. It'll be fun to see it right after having watched all of Ultimate.

*(What I mean is the animation on most of the show. The first episode is really well-made and strikingly stylish, but I remember the rest of it except for maybe the last episode being pretty limited, like they blew their wad on making the first episode, which almost feels like a pilot in that regard.)
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Mooning Freddy on November 19, 2013, 01:02:07 AM
I watched the 13-episode first anime and enjoyed it, but I can't say I was not bothered by how gruesomely powerful Alucard is, and by the way Integra constantly used him as a Deus-ex-machina.

Oh no! We are getting our asses kicked by vampires! What are we gonna do?
I know! Let's call our all-powerful-invincible-vampire-overlord who would crush them without even breaking a sweat!    :-\
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Abnormal Freak on November 19, 2013, 03:07:09 AM
The manga and OVA are a bit more interesting in that regard because you learn of some of the limitations Alucard has, particularly toward the end.

But hey, he's
(click to show/hide)
(is this really a spoiler I wonder?) so of course he has a dick-ton of power.
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: VladCT on November 19, 2013, 03:49:39 AM
The manga and OVA are a bit more interesting in that regard because you learn of some of the limitations Alucard has, particularly toward the end.
In the end that doesn't matter anyway, since he's probably reached ultra-broken
(click to show/hide)
:P
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Ratty on November 19, 2013, 08:58:26 PM
Yeah I don't think it's really a spoiler to say that Alucard is Dracula, so of course he's ungodly powerful. This is better explored in the manga and OVA series, Alucard is the ultimate antagonist. And though we can't help but root for him he's by no means a "good guy".

For realz spoilers
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: The Puritan on November 19, 2013, 09:50:04 PM
Question, since the Bram Stoker novel is part of the backstory: did Alucard let Van Helsing and friends win when they fought him? Or did they really take him down fair and square?
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Abnormal Freak on November 19, 2013, 10:48:50 PM
True defeat as far as I could tell. Only a man can kill a monster, Alucard kept saying. He also dons the clothes of one of the men (I believe it was van Helsing), likely out of respect.

I have a hard time seeing Alucard as completely evil. Like Coppola's movie, I believe there's meant to be some sympathy for him, while also recognizing that he's a wicked monster.
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Ratty on November 20, 2013, 07:09:13 AM
Question, since the Bram Stoker novel is part of the backstory: did Alucard let Van Helsing and friends win when they fought him? Or did they really take him down fair and square?

While the basic premise is "Hey, what if Van Helsing had enslaved Dracula rather than killed him?" It seems to be implied though never stated that Alucard entered this state at least semi-voluntarily. Out of respect for the man who was able to take him on, and out of boredom from being his own master for centuries.

True defeat as far as I could tell. Only a man can kill a monster, Alucard kept saying. He also dons the clothes of one of the men (I believe it was van Helsing), likely out of respect.

Yes, but that could just mean he'll only allow himself to be defeated by a man. As he states at one point he believes himself to be weaker than humans in a meaningful sense, because he became a monster rather than face mortality.

I have a hard time seeing Alucard as completely evil. Like Coppola's movie, I believe there's meant to be some sympathy for him, while also recognizing that he's a wicked monster.

Yeah I meant to say to Freddy yesterday (before my connection went out) that the 13 episode tv show messed up the character dynamics a lot. Alucard was too subservient. In the manga/OVA he actually takes a distinctly perverse joy in goading Integra into ordering him to do violence. Integra herself is less an emotionless bitchy boss and more an increasingly willing dominatrix to Alucard and Seras. Alucard is in general more obviously, gleefully, evil. Though what (very) little nobility is left in him from his life as Vlad Tepes is utterly devoted to Integra. Also Seras is a sidekick to Alucard, rather than a love interest like in the TV show. And Seras's own unsettling backstory wasn't revealed/explored until long after the TV series was made.
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: chainsawmidget on November 20, 2013, 10:32:30 AM
Quote
Yeah I meant to say to Freddy yesterday (before my connection went out) that the 13 episode tv show messed up the character dynamics a lot. Alucard was too subservient. In the manga/OVA he actually takes a distinctly perverse joy in goading Integra into ordering him to do violence. Integra herself is less an emotionless bitchy boss and more an increasingly willing dominatrix to Alucard and Seras. Alucard is in general more obviously, gleefully, evil. Though what (very) little nobility is left in him from his life as Vlad Tepes is utterly devoted to Integra. Also Seras is a sidekick to Alucard, rather than a love interest like in the TV show. And Seras's own unsettling backstory wasn't revealed/explored until long after the TV series was made.
I didn't quite see it that way. 

Alucard followed orders, but the show seemed to suggest he had no choice there.  Still at the same time he seemed to constatly push things and goad her.  It was more of a tiger-by-the-tail situation.  She's got control of him for now.

I really didn't see any romance between Seras and Alucard either.  It seemed to be another game to him.  Alucard saw a nice sweet and mostly innocent girl with just a tiny spark of something inside her and he wanted to see what would happen if she pushed her into being a real monster. 
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Ratty on November 20, 2013, 11:20:36 AM
I didn't quite see it that way. 

Alucard followed orders, but the show seemed to suggest he had no choice there.  Still at the same time he seemed to constatly push things and goad her.  It was more of a tiger-by-the-tail situation.  She's got control of him for now.

I really didn't see any romance between Seras and Alucard either.  It seemed to be another game to him.  Alucard saw a nice sweet and mostly innocent girl with just a tiny spark of something inside her and he wanted to see what would happen if she pushed her into being a real monster.

The TV show might have, but not in the manga and films. There are 2 or 3 times when Alucard gets on his knee to kneel before Integra without being prompted, including when all of his control art restriction levels have been removed and he could kill her easily. There's also the fact that
(click to show/hide)
It seems to me that he gets his jollies from arousing her violent passions. It's a romance really, a woman strong enough to tame the savage (Cthulhu-like) beast. A dominatrix and a very enthusiastic and active sub goading her on while they dance to the masochism tango (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytGOeiW0aE#).
(click to show/hide)
This is less often shown with Integra/Seras but there is that scene where Integra makes Seras drink her blood in a very suggestive way.
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Abnormal Freak on November 20, 2013, 04:45:41 PM
There is one line in the OVA where Alucard asks Integra if she feels that burning between her legs, lawl. Or something similar to that, in relation to all the bloodshed.
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Dracula9 on November 20, 2013, 05:23:10 PM
Yes, Vlad, Alucard presumably gained Schrodinger's powers.
(click to show/hide)

As for the discussion about his defeat as Abraham and crew's hands being genuine, and his "only a man can kill a monster" lines, it's explained fairly well in little perks of his in both manga and shows.
(click to show/hide)

And yeah, Al's pretty open about the sexual nature of battle. Though, for him being what he is, it's a natural question for him to ask, since his sexual feelings and preferences mostly become beyond human comprehension(though there are exceptions like the Major and Anderson, and even they aren't quite at what his level would presumably be). It's a funny scene, though, for sure.

And chainsaw, I don't quite agree with you there. Sure, Al wasn't exactly romantic towards Seras, but I don't think he wanted to push her into what he was. Rather, I feel that (based on all the shit I explained in the spoiler tags) he admired her drive for life and Turned her partly due to that. They have a form of a master-pupil relationship going on, undoubtedly, but I never thought that Alucard had negative connotations in his motivation for taking her on as his fledgling. He's not JUST a killing machine. As for his relationship with Integra, that's explained in a similar manner. When he was first awakened by her blood, she stood her ground to him fairly well for being just a child. He serves her out of respect to her father, whom he also admired for being braver than his frail mortality would have suggested. It's not so much that he's FORCED to, since he could easily rip her apart and no one could possibly stop him, but that he CHOOSES to. Their head-butting, back-and-forth relationship is just a part of that, since Alucard always is playing some manner of game to test the willpower/strength/valor/etc. of humans.

Ratty put it much more briefly, if nobody wants to read all that:
Quote
Out of respect for the man who was able to take him on, and out of boredom from being his own master for centuries.

The simplest way to describe everything Alucard does is that he has a deep and genuine respect for humans who are able to stare death in the face and still stand strong. Whether they're afraid, or physically weak, or whatever doesn't really matter to him (though he does seem to give bonus points in some cases). All that really matters is the courage/strength of will to make that stand in spite of whatever obstacles are there.

Hey guys can you guess what D9's favorite anime/manga series is?
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Mooning Freddy on November 20, 2013, 10:35:12 PM
Integra is one horribly frigid bitch in the anime. And it seemed to like Alucard is serving her only because he's bored and / or despises all other vampires.

Also, what kind of name is Seras for a girl anyway? I'd rather call her Victoria.
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Ratty on November 21, 2013, 08:37:09 AM
Integra is one horribly frigid bitch in the anime. And it seemed to like Alucard is serving her only because he's bored and / or despises all other vampires.
Yeah they cut out a lot of her emotions in the TV show. I still liked her in it, as much as I liked anything from that production, but she was way better in the source material and later adaptations. She's by far my favorite character in the franchise if you couldn't tell.

Also, what kind of name is Seras for a girl anyway? I'd rather call her Victoria.

She's just "Police Girl" until she wises up! Lol eh I like the name but like I said they got her wrong in the TV series.
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Inccubus on November 22, 2013, 06:19:39 PM
likely  a corruption or derivative  of sera or seraphim.
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: The Puritan on November 22, 2013, 07:29:36 PM
Or Ceres.
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Ratty on November 22, 2013, 08:33:19 PM
Yeah the names are a little odd in the series and I don't think the official primary translations are accepted as accurate by some in the community, at least for certain characters. Ceras/Seras/Ceres is one I've seen as is Walter's last name (Dornez? Dolnez?) and Integra's first (Integra, Integral?**). Of course sometimes people are just being stupid, like insisting Alucard should actually be Arucard because that's how the Japanese pronounce/spell it. Making it worse is that I've seen official translations for various merchandise use many of these conflicting translations, including "Arucard".

Of course sometimes it's hard to tell where funky translations end and purposeful decisions begin. Take Integra(l)'s title of "Sir". Technically if she's Knighted her title should be "Dame", and I think that would also be true if she were a Baroness, which she may be. But considering her traditionally masculine personality, appearance and job it's not unthinkable that she would choose to go by "Sir" rather than Dame. Or it's possible Kouta Hirano just didn't research that part very much. So who knows.

**If the latter translation is true does it stand for something? She's "Integral" to what? The Hellsing organization? Alucard? The plot itself? And if it's supposed to be "Integra" is it a corruption of "Integrity"?
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Abnormal Freak on November 23, 2013, 01:09:31 AM
The subtitles for both the TV series and OVA on the US DVDs and Blu-rays have Alucard's name as "Arucard" and it makes me RAAAAAAAAAGE! I hate stupid shit like that in subs, just as I hate Japanese-specific honorifics being intact. Just do the best job of translating it to plain English and let it be.

But some people (weeaboos) absolutely insist on suffixes like "-san" and "-kun" being included. Burn them all.



As for "Sir Hellsing," they actually call her that in the Japanese audio—as in the voice actors say "Sir Hellsing."
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Mooning Freddy on November 23, 2013, 07:25:09 AM
Integra is an odd name, but at least it's a feminine name, ending with -a.
In many languages female names almost always end with an "a", especially East European languages. I suppose this is because many female names are basically female versions of male names like Claudius - Claudia, Silvio - Silvia, and so forth.

And as for the Japanese, hehe.

South Park - City Wok vs City Sushi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omfO6ooInP4#ws)
Title: Re: Hellsing
Post by: Ratty on November 23, 2013, 11:15:33 AM
As for "Sir Hellsing," they actually call her that in the Japanese audio—as in the voice actors say "Sir Hellsing."
Yeah I just mean it's not 100% clear if that was a conscious character decision to make her more masculine or if it's the result of Hirano not initially knowing knighted women are called "Dame" rather than "Sir". I'd say it's probably the former though, considering she's shown to have become more manly in dress and habit after her uncle tried to kill her and she was saved by Alucard when she was a dress-wearing (and presumably non-smoking) young lady. I seem to recall the director for the English dub mentioning in a few interviews that he asked Hirano about the whole Sir/Dame thing among many other questions when they met, but I don't believe he's ever said what Hirano's response to that specific question was.

Also I didn't know the official dub used "Arucard" since I've not watched the OVA's dubbed in gosh, 4 or 5 years probably. Though the box for the Alucard figurine I got with the limited edition of volume 1 does have "Arucard" emblazoned on it in big stupid letters down the side, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. (Also the figurine is prominently advertised as being in "USA Exclusive coloring!" You painted it boring black instead of red, well done boys. Do you want a golf clap? The Anderson figurine that came with volume 3 is quite nice though.)