Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Hardcore Gaming 101 => Topic started by: Ratty on December 30, 2013, 04:40:23 PM
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Maybe it's a bit of both? As someone who can still get chills from "Terra's Theme" and "The Place I'll Return to Someday" I know the Final Fantasy name used to be a stamp of quality hardcore and casual gamers alike could trust. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. I've been thinking about this since seeing the series in the news several times lately. Squeenix has released an HD collection of X and X-2 in Japan (wider release later) with hints of an X-3 if enough interest is shown. Also
threatening saying that another FF13 sequel is down the pipe. I also saw the disgusting, exploitative and insulting Final Fantasy: All the Bravest microtransactionapalooza mobile "game" top at least one worst games of the year list.
With FF13 Squeenix abandoned the core exploration based gameplay that had defined the series from day one, maybe X-3 would be more of a return to gameplay roots? It's understandable why they changed the gameplay, because making a vast world with today's shiny graphics would be prohibitively expensive. But the indie market has shown that there's a demand for more traditional exploration based games with less snazzy visuals, do you think Squeenix should have spent more time looking for a happy medium between shiny graphics and rewarding open world gameplay? Maybe they'd find a decent story in such a place outside the box?
It just seems to me that the combination of alienating their core fanbase with one hand while picking said fanbase's pockets with the other is destined to bite them in the arse. The name continues to get more and more cheapened to the point that I wonder if the series will still be around in 15 years, and if it isn't will anyone care? What do you think?
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Realistically, the only way the "Final Fantasy" brand will ceize to exist is if, and ONLY if, Squeenix declares complete bankruptcy and goes under, forcing them to sell off their assets. But even then, the series will inevitably be revived one way or another. So I have no doubt that the FF brand will still be around in some form 15+ years in the future.
Love it or hate it, FF7 still remains the biggest and most successful title in the franchise. To this day there are still people that want a full-blown remake, or better yet, a FF7-2, and Squeenix is fully aware of this.
The formula has evolved, and perhaps more accurately devolved, and yes I believe the suits in Japan are solely to blame mainly because they, like many other once-great companies, are completely out-of-touch with their fans. But there will never be a day that we'll read "Due to poor sales, Square Enix will no longer produce Final Fantasy games." That's like despite the Knicks being the absolute worst team in the NBA, the powers at be decide to dismantle the team and remove the New York Knicks from Basketball. That scenario will never happen, same with Squeenix and Final Fantasy.
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I'd say the two are inextricably connected as reasons. Personally there hasn't been a "real" FF game (barring remakes) since FFX-2 and Dimensions. XI/XIV are different beasts. XII is really more akin to FFT than the main series. And XIII is... I don't know what the hell XIII is, but it doesn't have much of anything in common with FF and the obvious milking of the modern Transformers movie trend is blatant and insulting to both the integrity of FF as work of art and consumers alike.
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To me FF stopped being FF after 6. FF7 took the series in a direction that Squear Enix will never return from. Aside from remakes I doubt we will ever see another old school FF like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 ever again. And that is a damned shame. I think it's more about the cash flow then the quality that the name had once held for fans' hearts.
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To me FF stopped being FF after 6. FF7 took the series in a direction that Squear Enix will never return from. Aside from remakes I doubt we will ever see another old school FF like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 ever again. And that is a damned shame. I think it's more about the cash flow then the quality that the name had once held for fans' hearts.
Have you played 9? You might be pleasantly surprised. It was intended to be a farewell to the old Final Fantasies and what a farewell it was. A touching story, gorgeous visuals and some of Nobuo Uematus's best work in the series add up to a masterpiece that Final Fantasy creator Hironobu Sakaguchi has said is his favorite.
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One thing I'm sure that everybody can agree on, is that there probably isn't another series as polarizing amongst it's fans than Final Fantasy. I disliked FFIX, I really don't see why everyone likes it so much. Just never got into it. I feel Zidane's design was probably the lamest design for a protagonist the series has seen. Some feel the series "died" after FFVI, I feel it started going downhill at FFVIII (well actually.. FFT). But all that is another topic altogether.
I think the "classic feel" the series once had left when all the old producers & programmers left to form their own companies. I mean, there's a lot of "spiritual successor" RPGs to Final Fantasy out there, from companies that employ a lot of former Squaresoft employees. To us old guys, of course things will never be the same as they once were in the 90's. But who's to say the newer, younger generation doesn't absolutely love the new style? To them, FFXIII is Final Fantasy. It's selfish of us to rob them of these experiences, just because it's "not what we grew up on." The direction the series took was inevitable. There will always be opinions like "yeah, while this new stuff is objectively 'good,' it just ain't for me," to "the series died once ____ was released," and everything in between.
But really, guys, in the end, every single Final Fantasy game is a fucking miracle. Wanna know why? Because we're no longer stuck in the stone age with 2-bit graphics playing Pong and Asteroids. It's amazing how technology progressed to offer these new experiences. We're all just spoiled rotten and everyone too often forgets how lucky we all are to have the stuff we have lol, it's true!
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To me FF stopped being FF after 6. FF7 took the series in a direction that Squear Enix will never return from. Aside from remakes I doubt we will ever see another old school FF like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 ever again. And that is a damned shame. I think it's more about the cash flow then the quality that the name had once held for fans' hearts.
The spin in the new direction to me is 10, Art direction for every mainline Final Fantasy game after 10 seems to borrow heavily from it...
I dislike XIII, XIII-2 was just too busy with Kingdom Hearts and FF1-10 reverences, and XIII-3 is too busy making costumes and Voiding the existence of XIII-2
Type-0 was fucking brilliant, and it brings tears to my eyes that this game never got localized, and go figure it was made by the same people who brought you Crisis Core FF7, a game so fucking good I played FF7 and watched Advent Children (complete) because I felt like I owed it to Zack to carry his legacy.
XIII-3 will be the worst thing SE is going to put out, we all know this, but it's not that bad... Those guys who made Type-0, THEY are the ones in charge of FF14, which I hope that game will be uber successful so these guys can start being the main-stream Final Fantasy Devs, and the Fucking idiots behind XIII can be put in spin-off or even shovel-ware hell.
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Everything I've read about XIII-3 sounds just absolutely godawful.
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Have you played 9? You might be pleasantly surprised. It was intended to be a farewell to the old Final Fantasies and what a farewell it was. A touching story, gorgeous visuals and some of Nobuo Uematus's best work in the series add up to a masterpiece that Final Fantasy creator Hironobu Sakaguchi has said is his favorite.
I've played FF 9 and was pleasantly surprised by the game. I got quite far into it too which is unusually for me and newer RPGs. However I didn't finish the game as that stupid overly-tough boss under the giant tree kinda killed it for me.
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I think they are not killing FF.
They are just reinventing the franchise to suit the newer gamer demographic.
And that just means we are getting old and stuck on nostalgia (FF1-6). Hehehe.
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The fact that FFX-3 is likely to be a thing says alot.
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Up to this point, i have enjoyed FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8 and the last FF game for me was FFX. While i have finished FFXII, i've never got back to replay it. FFXIII, i gave up half way through the game and trade it for some other game and FFXIII-2, while it starts boring, it gets a little interesting later, only to end up repetitive, so while the series may not end up, i doubt that there will be a new FF game that it will pick my interest.
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It's all the fault of the people involved in the writing, directing, design, etc. Toriyama is responsible for ruining PE, and the FFXIII reputation, 3 rpgs and they all suck and fall short of FF standards. even FFX was horrible and a step down from what FF7-9 refined. FFXII had its issues but it's a better FF than FFX and FFXIII combined. It's really SE's fault letting idiots like Toriyama ruin the series, as well as allowing Nomura to work on various projects instead of finishing KH3 first, then Versus/XV, they take too long to make a FF and it's unlikely that FFXV will be any better than the PS1 FFs aside from graphics and combat (it's party is already looking sucky and sexist). So yea it's all SE's fault allowing those fools guide the franchise. They are also at fault taking so long to localize FF Type 0, that should get console HD remaster priority over FFX and KH games.
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One thing I'm sure that everybody can agree on, is that there probably isn't another series as polarizing amongst it's fans than Final Fantasy. I disliked FFIX, I really don't see why everyone likes it so much. Just never got into it. I feel Zidane's design was probably the lamest design for a protagonist the series has seen. Some feel the series "died" after FFVI, I feel it started going downhill at FFVIII (well actually.. FFT). But all that is another topic altogether.
I think the "classic feel" the series once had left when all the old producers & programmers left to form their own companies. I mean, there's a lot of "spiritual successor" RPGs to Final Fantasy out there, from companies that employ a lot of former Squaresoft employees. To us old guys, of course things will never be the same as they once were in the 90's. But who's to say the newer, younger generation doesn't absolutely love the new style? To them, FFXIII is Final Fantasy. It's selfish of us to rob them of these experiences, just because it's "not what we grew up on." The direction the series took was inevitable. There will always be opinions like "yeah, while this new stuff is objectively 'good,' it just ain't for me," to "the series died once ____ was released," and everything in between.
But really, guys, in the end, every single Final Fantasy game is a fucking miracle. Wanna know why? Because we're no longer stuck in the stone age with 2-bit graphics playing Pong and Asteroids. It's amazing how technology progressed to offer these new experiences. We're all just spoiled rotten and everyone too often forgets how lucky we all are to have the stuff we have lol, it's true!
Technology does not a good game make. And one could argue that the newer generations are just as spoiled rotten by flashy graphics with actual substance falling by the way side. And if I hear another little bitch belly aching at RHDN begging for easy versions of classic games... I'm going to continue generalizing the gamers of today as a bunch of sorry ass pansies. T_T
On a side not, one of my guilty pleasures is whenever a younger relative bitches about a modern game being too hard, I make them play the first stage of CV1 and then laugh as they inevitably either fail to reach the end of the stage or are murdered by a giant bat that barely moves. Then I laugh and show them how it's done as they watch in awe. Then if they whine about it I make them play Ninja Gaiden.
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Then if they whine about it I make them play Ninja Gaiden.
Thats just mean lol
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Technology does not a good game make. And one could argue that the newer generations are just as spoiled rotten by flashy graphics with actual substance falling by the way side. And if I hear another little bitch belly aching at RHDN begging for easy versions of classic games... I'm going to continue generalizing the gamers of today as a bunch of sorry ass pansies. T_T
On a side not, one of my guilty pleasures is whenever a younger relative bitches about a modern game being too hard, I make them play the first stage of CV1 and then laugh as they inevitably either fail to reach the end of the stage or are murdered by a giant bat that barely moves. Then I laugh and show them how it's done as they watch in awe. Then if they whine about it I make them play Ninja Gaiden.
That's brutal, lol! If you really wanna be a dick to them then may I suggest Super Mario Bros: The Lost Levels. There is no greater pain then trying to beat that game.
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I just read up some more info about the FFX 2.5 and it is simply amazing.
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Technology does not a good game make.
"good" is subjective, but the point I was trying to make was, it's all still amazing. Every single piece of technology we have is simply amazing, new and old. Even the mundane stuff we take for granted. These games, whatever your opinion on them is, are still incredible feats of human ingenuity and creativity. I'm going off on a tangent now but that's because I just watched this Louis C.K. comedy special and he made some excellent points about this subject, how "everything's amazing, but nobody's happy" and it's true, lol. Just made me realize how fortunate we all are to talk about stuff like this.
Even though you may not like it, just appreciate that you have the option to not like it I guess :(
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Honestly, I think it's a little of both. A few of the newer FF releases haven't been up to par with the ones that preceded it - *glares at X and X-2* - but I think a lot of it also has to do with the market values and people throwing fits over everything.
Take the FFXIII arc, for instance. I've heard quite a lot of negativity about the first two games in the so-far trilogy (it DOES still count even if the third one's not released yet, right?), when I personally have had my faith in the series boosted by them. And this is Mr. Conductor talking - with the exception of XI, XII, and XIX (though I still know their synopses), I've played them all heavily - and I know what I'm talking about.
But, I'm going to just point at the massive amount of hate FFXIII-2 is getting over the time-travel plot. Most of the people bitching about it are the same people who won't hesitate to jump the gun and say Chrono Trigger is one of the best games ever. The monster-capturing? FFV did that with the Beast Master, as did VI with Relm's Sketch ability (a little different, but the basic premise is the same). Chrono Trigger had the time-travel generality (hell, even the loading screen/vortex for going between times in XIII-2 is strongly reminiscent of Trigger's inside-the-Gate vortex), though XIII-2 touches on the three main theories of time travel (fixed timeline, dynamic timeline, and multiverse timeline, respectively) a little more in-depth than CT did (though, to be fair, CT did have its fair share of back-and-forthing due to dynamic timeline changes). One would imagine elaborating more on one of the main things that made Chrono Trigger so beloved and timeless (pun intended?) would only improve its quality, but the market and fandoms have never been known to be entirely logical.
But yeah, I'd say it's a little bit of Square-Enix either starting to plateau for the fall or going through the inevitable rough patch, and a little bit of the fandom/market being unreasonable and silly.
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"good" is subjective, but the point I was trying to make was, it's all still amazing. Every single piece of technology we have is simply amazing, new and old. Even the mundane stuff we take for granted. These games, whatever your opinion on them is, are still incredible feats of human ingenuity and creativity. I'm going off on a tangent now but that's because I just watched this Louis C.K. comedy special and he made some excellent points about this subject, how "everything's amazing, but nobody's happy" and it's true, lol. Just made me realize how fortunate we all are to talk about stuff like this.
Even though you may not like it, just appreciate that you have the option to not like it I guess :(
However, I still don't have my flying car. ಠ_ಠ
All jesting aside, that is a good way to look at it. There isn't enough appreciation in the world in general. I'm reminded of such things when I have to input text on my Wii U and it doesn't have swype capability like my phone. But I will say concerning games that there is a problem when too much focus is placed on a single technology over another.
Honestly, I think it's a little of both. A few of the newer FF releases haven't been up to par with the ones that preceded it - *glares at X and X-2* - but I think a lot of it also has to do with the market values and people throwing fits over everything.
Take the FFXIII arc, for instance. I've heard quite a lot of negativity about the first two games in the so-far trilogy (it DOES still count even if the third one's not released yet, right?), when I personally have had my faith in the series boosted by them. And this is Mr. Conductor talking - with the exception of XI, XII, and XIX (though I still know their synopses), I've played them all heavily - and I know what I'm talking about.
But, I'm going to just point at the massive amount of hate FFXIII-2 is getting over the time-travel plot. Most of the people bitching about it are the same people who won't hesitate to jump the gun and say Chrono Trigger is one of the best games ever. The monster-capturing? FFV did that with the Beast Master, as did VI with Relm's Sketch ability (a little different, but the basic premise is the same). Chrono Trigger had the time-travel generality (hell, even the loading screen/vortex for going between times in XIII-2 is strongly reminiscent of Trigger's inside-the-Gate vortex), though XIII-2 touches on the three main theories of time travel (fixed timeline, dynamic timeline, and multiverse timeline, respectively) a little more in-depth than CT did (though, to be fair, CT did have its fair share of back-and-forthing due to dynamic timeline changes). One would imagine elaborating more on one of the main things that made Chrono Trigger so beloved and timeless (pun intended?) would only improve its quality, but the market and fandoms have never been known to be entirely logical.
But yeah, I'd say it's a little bit of Square-Enix either starting to plateau for the fall or going through the inevitable rough patch, and a little bit of the fandom/market being unreasonable and silly.
I'm not sure what people have been bitching about in terms of XIII-2's monster catching, but it isn't really the same as FFV and much less so than FFVI. And in fact I don't see anything wrong with being able to tame monsters and use them as party members. That's actually a step in the right direction.
Personally my issues with XIII are the near complete departure of it's story, setting, and artwork from Fantasy to Sci-fi. Even FFVII had a fair mix of the two. The other thing besides the actual game play that I felt departed too much from Final Fantasy as a series was turning the Summons into Transformers in a blatant attempt to cash in on the movies that came out around the same time. It's an obvious situation of someone in charge saying, "Hey! Transformers made a lot of money, lets put them into FF!". That is the sort of crap that pisses fans off.
Speaking of movies, Square Enix should realize that gamers want to play games, not interactive movies. That's a whole other genre and modern FF looks like it'll end up being more like an over-the-top Indigo Prophecy/Heavy Rain/Two Souls than an actual RPG.
There is a point at which a series is "evolved" into a different species all together. And for me the biggest thing is when core game play is heavily altered. So, like I mentioned before, FFXI, FFXII, FFXIII, FFXIV, and FFXV are not really FF at all. They are experiments, offshoots, and gaiden. Strip them of refeerences to FF and no one would say, "Hey! This could have been a FF game!" There's a reason why FFT isn't FFVIII. There's a reason Crystal Chronicles isn't part of the "main series". Where as FFG: 4WoL and BD:FF could have and should have been. Maybe it's all semantics to some, but take other series and try that and it doesn't fly with some of the same people. If you took Street Fighter and used a version of the Mortal Kombat style of game play is it still really still Street Fighter? Make a Sonic game where he has to abide by Mario's physics and is it really still Sonic?
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FFIV
I think you forgot to put the 'X' in FFXIV cause it looks like your bashing FFIV, LOL!
I'm not sure what people have been bitching about in terms of XIII-2's monster catching, but it isn't really the same as FFV and much less so than FFVI. And in fact I don't see anything wrong with being able to tame monsters and use them as party members. That's actually a step in the right direction.
Monster-catching is an old gimmick. It goes all the way back to the early Dragon Quest games and people love that series to death.
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I never said there was anything wrong with it, Inccubus. Just that the most basic premises of things people (and by people, I mostly mean those fans who act like asshats on the Internet with their opinions because it's cool to hate stuff on the Internet) are complaining about are things Square has done, also in basic premise, successfully in the past. That's all.
And while you're totally right on the lengths to which the recent titles have gone from the original premises of the series, I don't wholly agree that that rules it out as "not an FF." Really, all I need for an FF is some ATB-based combat, a compelling enough storyline that relates more towards individual character growths and motivations (and IMO FFXIII did a pretty good fucking job at this, for the most part), and any number of the series' classic character icons. It may sound shallow, but I never can get over an FF not having a classic Moogle or Tonberry or Chocobo. Just a sort of back-of-the-mind nag of mine.
Though, we've long since established I look at games a lot differently than most here do. *shrugs*
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XII is really more akin to FFT than the main series.
XII was done by the same people who developed Tactics.
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I know. It's even officially named as part of the Ivalice Alliance sub-series.
I never said there was anything wrong with it, Inccubus. Just that the most basic premises of things people (and by people, I mostly mean those fans who act like asshats on the Internet with their opinions because it's cool to hate stuff on the Internet) are complaining about are things Square has done, also in basic premise, successfully in the past. That's all.
I didn't say you did either, lol. I assumed those 'people' who were complaining found fault in it.
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The modern market ate a 200 hours RPG about Dragons and nordic gods in millions, I'm sure the genre is not the problem, but, have you played the last 3 games? Absolute indisputable garbage. SE is such a joke company it would be funny if they didin't have Legacy of Kain held hostage,
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Eh...I'm pretty against calling them indisputable garbage, but to each his own.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they did. If they decide the damn continuity of the LoK (well, aside from the atrocity that was BO2) series needs updating, then we'll know.
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The problem with Final Fantasy XIII is this EXACT plot would be solved in like 40 minutes in an episode of The Outer Limits.
I'm not even exaggerating. Look up "Feasibility Study."
My Vanille figure is looking at me with plastic remorse.
discuss.
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Honestly, its all Square-Enix.
Look at Tomb Raider, the game was great, and now when the game is about to be 1 year old, this Fraud Edition is coming out with all these new features...
Realistic Lara? FUCK THAT, Give her Bigger eyes and a tighter face like the anime characters
Pack in all the DLC that people didn't buy
Nonstop talk about graphics and how they can only be achieved on next-gen hardware, locked at 30fps
so how much is this version? $60! even though the PC version is $50 and the console versions are $10-$20.
Square-Enix pretty much officially states that graphics are more important than the game itself with this move.
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I just want a new Actraiser. ._.
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Tomb Raider Fraud... Edition?
let me look this up.
Oh, so now Square is adapting the Namco Tales marketing gimmick of releasing a glorified beta version of their mainstream titles on one platform, and then releasing a better version somewhere else within the same year to cheaply make more money using existing assets / stab existing customers in the back. My faith in gaming society certainly isn't hindered by the fact that this is apparently still a viable business strategy.
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Tomb Raider Fraud... Edition?
let me look this up.
Oh, so now Square is adapting the Namco Tales marketing gimmick of releasing a glorified beta version of their mainstream titles on one platform, and then releasing a better version somewhere else within the same year to cheaply make more money using existing assets / stab existing customers in the back. My faith in gaming society certainly isn't hindered by the fact that this is apparently still a viable business strategy.
It's not even that really. They'll bullshit about how they're making this utilizing "the power that only next gen consoles can offer". But everyone knows this $60 rerelease is just a GOTY edition port of the PC version.
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I try and stick to old FF. Made the mistake of buying FF13 and gave it away to a friend. Hated it. I really love FF4 and 8 though.
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(http://i.imgur.com/bM2jUlw.jpg)
guys
I just found out
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Ah, the novel...
Just what were they thinking when they made that? I've heard quite a few things about it, and most of them sound like the writer's trying to emulate Taro Yoko rather badly.
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Who's Taro Yoko? Is he (she?) anywhere near as unintentionally hilarious as Final Fantasy X-2.5?
Because my god this is a goldmine.
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He's the guy behind the first and third Drakengard, along with NieR, I believe.
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So would you say http://www.fanfiction.net/s/10069646/1/A-Brief-Moment-in-History (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/10069646/1/A-Brief-Moment-in-History) is an improvement over Final Fantasy canon? Or is it still Tidus-exploding-head tier?
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It's an improvement, Waffle. It's an improvement.
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oh really?
What do you think I should do to improve it further?
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Make Tidus and Yuna live happily ever after :cry:
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But they're not even from the same universe as Vanille.