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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Super Waffle on January 16, 2014, 06:26:50 PM

Title: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Super Waffle on January 16, 2014, 06:26:50 PM
Because the whole idea of the traditional succubus is they disguise themselves as each man's ideal woman for semen-collecting purposes, and in Alucard's case the succubus just happened to appear as his mom.

just saying.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Ahasverus on January 16, 2014, 06:41:27 PM
This is on the level of Rape Dracula.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 16, 2014, 06:52:31 PM
I was wondering the same thing. Cause sometimes he will say "in the name of my mother....". For example, right before the fight with Dracula begins, he says: "Dracula, in the name of my mother, I will defeat you again." Why would he say that? Plus, we also have the nightmare evidence.

I also remember it being implied that at one point Lisa and Dracula split up and she too Adrian (Alucard) will her. If that's the case, and they just lived together mother and son, it's very likely they grew very close. Especially if people were aware that Adrian was half-vampire. It's possible that they could have been shunned by the local people. This could have might have added to the implications that she may be a witch. Think about it: "single" woman with a son. no known father. the son is half-vampire. she uses something other than prayer on the sick. the people she is "trying" to help still die.

In that atmosphere where religion, superstition, and ignorance reign supreme, it's possible that those two would spend a lot of alone time together. Who knows? They might have been some incest. I at least think that it's vaguely being implied.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Ahasverus on January 16, 2014, 07:26:29 PM
It's IGA, he needed a name for a female demon, oh, Succubus, ok, make it redhead and with boobs. Profit. Don't give it much though. He was the scenario writer so ToGod Hagihara is not guilty of this.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Super Waffle on January 16, 2014, 07:35:52 PM
This is on the level of Rape Dracula.

Sounds interesting.  Tell me more.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Ahasverus on January 16, 2014, 08:06:24 PM
Sounds interesting.  Tell me more.
Where were you living these days lol http://www.usgamer.net/articles/yes-castlevania-lords-of-shadow-2-did-make-me-feel-uncomfortable- (http://www.usgamer.net/articles/yes-castlevania-lords-of-shadow-2-did-make-me-feel-uncomfortable-)
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Super Waffle on January 16, 2014, 08:20:45 PM
Oh, it's a Lords of Shadow thing.  I don't really pay attention to that.

And why do all of those screenshots show Gabriel casually walking around in... what looks like a modern urban environment?  Are they trying to turn Castlevania into Assassin's Creed all of the sudden?

wtf are you doing Cox
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Intersection on January 16, 2014, 08:47:09 PM
And why do all of those screenshots show Gabriel casually walking around in... what looks like a modern urban environment?
Simply because Lords of Shadow 2 is set in a modern urban environment...
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Super Waffle on January 16, 2014, 09:10:43 PM
oh sure because that's the most logical place to find a CASTLE in a Castlevania game.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: theplottwist on January 16, 2014, 09:21:07 PM
Well here is what I think of the whole Succubus thing:

Alucard strikes me as the man who never loved anyone, but his mother.
There is a Succubus on the castle and she needs to defeat him (DEFEAT. No "semen collecting" is even implied, even if it's a Succubus function,  and even if "defeat" can mean "any means necessary", but bear with me). She was probably commanded by either Richter (controlled by Shaft) or Death to do it. Thus she needed to use the image from someone who Alucard loved, and who is that? Lisa. There was no other better to impersonate because Alucard is either sleeping for centuries or awaken feeling depressed. When you have to defeat a guy, your main weapon is using this guy's fantasies to seduce him, and said guy has zero sexual-related fantasies, it makes your work a tad harder, no? But Alucard is not at all without a secret of his own...

Succubus Lisa doesn't try to seduce Alucard using Lisa in the physical sense, but in the mental one. She is using Lisa only to aim at the real "fantasy". If he had an Oedipus Complex, Succubus being inside his head would know of this and construct a better scenario where proper seducing would work better. Instead, she uses the traumatizing scene of his mother being burned, and tries incentivating him into comitting murder upon the people.

The Succubus is indeed seducing him. By making him give in to his vampiric desires through the incentive of the only person who Alucard trusted fully to devotion. Who wouldn't like to have someone who incentives you to be what you are to it's fullest extent while loving you inconditionally?

She is seducing him with the forbidden fetish of his restrained vampirism, bloodlust and vengeance.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Dracula9 on January 16, 2014, 09:41:58 PM
Well, Waffle, Drac could just go for the modern equivalent and take over Trump Tower.

As for the Succubus thing (ohp, Plot just posted, so he's probably going to say the same thing only better), I think that has more to do with Alucard's deep - almost symbolic - love for his mother, and the fact that he comes off as asexual, more than an implied Oedipus complex. I mean, the guy's got next to no emotion for anything except Lisa. A large amount of his dialogue is pretty aloof in tone until Lisa comes up in just about any context.

I guess, in a sense, the Succubus (God, I wish she had a fucking name) isn't so much tempting his dick, as she is tempting the other half of his dhampir nature.

Hang on a minute...a dhampir, who's more human than vampire, who sympathizes with and works to help humankind, who is the son of Dracula, makes every effort to control his bloodlust, and has a deep-seated and profound love/hate relationship with his origins...

Where have I heard this story before...?

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fanimemedia.ign.com%2Fanime%2Fimage%2Farticle%2F833%2F833882%2Fvampire-hunter-d-special-edition-20071108034938881-000.jpg&hash=f278544c759ea5daed1f57d4cfe822af786291bd)

Oh, right.

EDIT: Yep, Plot did. lol
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Asgardwolf on January 16, 2014, 09:43:03 PM
oh sure because that's the most logical place to find a CASTLE in a Castlevania game.
It was (or supposed to be) during the 1999 Castle War and also in the future in AoS/DoS. why could`t be a ccastle in the present time?
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Super Waffle on January 16, 2014, 10:00:06 PM
wait, I thought the LoS games were supposed to be an alternate universe?
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Dracula9 on January 16, 2014, 10:10:22 PM
It IS in a new timeline...isn't it?

I mean, maybe there was DCW speculation or something but Lords IS an AU.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: DoctaMario on January 16, 2014, 10:26:54 PM
LOL this could ONLY have been a Super Waffle thread. xD Interesting topic though.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Asgardwolf on January 16, 2014, 10:28:55 PM
wait, I thought the LoS games were supposed to be an alternate universe?
Yes they are. what`s your point? It is ok to have Dracula`s castle in the present or even in the future if is and Igavania but it`s wrong if is LOS?
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Dracula9 on January 16, 2014, 11:11:16 PM
No, he means that Lords' timeline using a direct event from the original timeline wouldn't make any logical sense.

Basically, doing that would mean that all the stuff leading up to the Demon Castle Wars had to have happened, and if they happened, then there's no point in the alternative LoS timeline existing. It becomes a jumbled clusterfuck.

Now, if it WAS the DCW, and Cox actually wrote instigations and causes and effects in for it that fit the new timeline, it'd be another story. But since he most likely hasn't, I think it's safe to assume the battle in the Lords 2 trailer was just a bunch of humans rallying to try and kill him. Nothing so grandeur as the DCW.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Ahasverus on January 17, 2014, 12:37:52 AM
The DMC only exists in our minds, so we don't have anything to compare to :P
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Flame on January 17, 2014, 01:12:07 AM
Depends... You gonna write about it..?
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: The Puritan on January 17, 2014, 03:52:45 AM
>Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?

Nah. That's like saying the succubus in MOF took the form of a sexy redhead to subconsciously remind Simon of his mother.

...heeeey now.  8)
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Ahasverus on January 17, 2014, 04:49:27 AM
>Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?

Nah. That's like saying the succubus in MOF took the form of a sexy redhead to subconsciously remind Simon of his mother.

...heeeey now.  8)
Heyyy hold on those horses hahaha
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Trevorcard on January 17, 2014, 07:10:53 PM
Its more like Simon has a Oepius complex in MOF than Alucard did in SOTN. Since :P being a barbarian he had sexual feelings also Succubus has to entice him with a threesome :P.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on January 18, 2014, 07:02:01 AM
Simon is easily enticed and he seems to enjoy it until he realizes.

On Alucard's case, I have been thinking that since his memory of his mom is so strong, that could possibly mean that IGA is cementing his canon where Sonia did not exist.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on January 19, 2014, 12:20:02 AM
Simon is easily enticed and he seems to enjoy it until he realizes.

On Alucard's case, I have been thinking that since his memory of his mom is so strong, that could possibly mean that IGA is cementing his canon where Sonia did not exist.
That would be a good thought, but I believe that SotN came out before legends. So, it can't have anything to do with Sonia.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Ratty on January 19, 2014, 01:24:08 AM
This is on the level of Rape Dracula.

I don't understand the attempts to manufacture controversy over that at all. I mean, of course Dracula is a rapist, he has been since Bram Stoker. That's what makes him so disturbing. He takes people against their will and forces them to exchange fluids in a metaphor that is as brutal and violent as it is blatantly sexual. It's really sad if all of the modern romanticized portrayals make people surprised by one of the central aspects of what should be a repulsive character. I mean hello Dracula is a serial killer who has operated for hundreds of years. He's bound to have killed thousands of innocent victims including the children we see him sneeringly feed to his brides, a sensitive misunderstood soul he ain't.

Granted these more unpleasant aspects haven't been examined much in the original cartoony and arcade-y Castlevania canon. But these are the kind of horrible character traits that should be explored for "gritty reboots", otherwise why do a "gritty" reboot at all? Particularly if you're playing as said horrible person. There's no point in having such a person be your protagonist if you're going to hide the extent of their horridness from the audience even during the ending of the story.

That would be a good thought, but I believe that SotN came out before legends. So, it can't have anything to do with Sonia.

It came out before Legends but they both came out in 97, so it's not unthinkable that Legends was in the planning stages while they were making SotN.




As for the OP. That's very interesting question but I think it's likely another case of a cigar being a cigar and a coffin being a coffin.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on January 19, 2014, 07:12:57 AM
It came out before Legends but they both came out in 97, so it's not unthinkable that Legends was in the planning stages while they were making SotN.

Ooopsie... my statement should be restated.
Since IGA created his canon timeline in 2001, and Legends was not in existence when SoTN was made, IGA must have the idea of creating a canon timeline at the back of his mind where Alucard should not have any prior romantic relationships with anyone until Maria comes along. That is why he hated Legends so much.
Title: Re: Was SOTN trying to imply Alucard has an Oedipus complex?
Post by: Ratty on January 19, 2014, 01:21:26 PM
Ooopsie... my statement should be restated.
Since IGA created his canon timeline in 2001, and Legends was not in existence when SoTN was made, IGA must have the idea of creating a canon timeline at the back of his mind where Alucard should not have any prior romantic relationships with anyone until Maria comes along. That is why he hated Legends so much.

*nods* Yeah that makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the primary voices that had the game switched to being "non-canon" somewhere along development. Though the fact that a Dreamcast game featuring Sonia was almost made indicates to me that Konami couldn't care less about what had been declared canon and non-canon until IGA took the reins.