Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Morning star on February 04, 2014, 03:33:22 AM
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First things first.. As a new guy i risk asking something that's been talked to death. If this topic has been gone over already, i ask for a pardon in advance.
So here is my question.
Everybody knows that SOTN was a turning point for the future of Castlevania games. Would you choose to go back in time and rob the world of the masterpiece that was SOTN if it meant that the style of play and storyline would have remained the same for a longer period of time? Or are you happy with the direction these games went in and you wouldn't change a thing?
I ask this because the games released after the conclusion of the snes era started to leave a bad taste in my mouth. N64 and on.. Don't get me wrong, curse of darkness was great, but it didn't feel like a castlevania game for me and LOI was a bit weak. I have no experience with anything past PS2. Also never played anything past the Gameboy Advance.
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SOTN is one of the best in the series, so no. If it hadn't been made, I highly doubt there'd have been any new entries in the old style. In some ways it seems SOTN prolonged the life of the series, here in the States at least (and part of the reason IGA made it that way is because of poor sales and waning interest in Japan).
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Yep and that's the other thing.. I always had this question in my mind, but was always afraid that the answer would have ended up being exactly what you just said. The death of the franchise.
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I agree with Freak.
Plus my 2 cents.
I knew the existence of Castlevania since the Famicom days watching my dad play, but SOTN was the main reason I was hooked into Castlevania (along with lots of female fans who didn't cared about the series until that point). And I actually liked the metroidvania format.
Thus, I won't go back in time.
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I don't think SotN is to "blame" for what followed it. The N64 games could've possibly happened anyway, even if SotN had never happened. The GBA/DS games, on the other hand, were built on the SotN formula, so those may not have been made. I loved the SotN clones though so I wouldn't go back and chsnge anything. I think Castlevania was always gonna change sooner or later. And yes; Maybe the series would've been dead by now if it hadn't been for SotN. But out of all the games that followed it, it only directly influenced maybe half of them? Dunno. Lost count.
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I don't think SotN is to "blame" for what followed it. The N64 games could've possibly happened anyway, even if SotN had never happened.
True story. The move to 3D was coming anyway.
I agree with Freak.
Plus my 2 cents.
I knew the existence of Castlevania since the Famicom days watching my dad play, but SOTN was the main reason I was hooked into Castlevania (along with lots of female fans who didn't cared about the series until that point). And I actually liked the metroidvania format.
Thus, I won't go back in time.
I actually found this very interesting. Mostly because i found this to be true as well. The female fan base did seem to grow MUCH larger after the release of this game. I was never sure why though. My girlfriend liked it. Her friends seemed to like it. Even my sister liked this game and she is not a big gamer.
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I actually found this very interesting. Mostly because i found this to be true as well. The female fan base did seem to grow MUCH larger after the release of this game. I was never sure why though. My girlfriend liked it. Her friends seemed to like it. Even my sister liked this game and she is not a big gamer.
Hmmm... I could think of big 2 reasons.
1) ALUCARD! Ayami Kojima's drawings (of brooding emo pretty boys) have big time appeal for females.
2) The game is easy.
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Hmmm... I could think of big 2 reasons.
1) ALUCARD! Ayami Kojima's drawings (of brooding emo pretty boys) have big time appeal for females.
2) The game is easy.
The game is easy, no argument there. But.. are we sure Alucard is a guy? I think i need the Crocodile Dundee crotch check on that one :D
No, i know what your saying, but i still don't understand it. Oh well, at least he didn't sparkle, lmao!
Edit: Just wanted to make sure you know that i am just joking around. New forum and all. It's better to be safe and all that ;D
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As much as I love the classic games, SotN was a necessity to happen. It breathed new life into the franchise and kept it going for much longer than Konami might have intended. I have the feeling Castlevania would have been one of those franchises that would have been dead after the SNES/Genesis era.
After LoS I feel like Konami has decided to make it an important tradition to reboot the franchise every decade or so.
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Would I go back in time to stop SotN? No. It was a really good game for me and still is. SotN was a necessity for the series, but also a double-edged sword. The series was prolonged, however it quickly became stale due to the stylization of story-telling and reuse of Rondo graphics that also appeared in SotN. I do believe that CV64/LoD was going to happen with or without SotN's introduction to the gaming community. I also believe that the other two 3Dvanias (LoI + CoD) were influenced by CV64 to make better 3Dvanias, but did not spiritually succeed where CV64 had (same for LoS in that in that light). And as for the LoS trilogy, we'll just have to see what Konami can dish out before we can decide if it's better or worse.
No, i know what your saying, but i still don't understand it. Oh well, at least he didn't sparkle, lmao!
Diddo! Vampires do NOT f**king sparkle. I curse that terrible, horribly written novel series to the abyss forever! >:(
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SOTN is a masterpiece and there would not be Castlevania today without it.
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I love the Classicvania games and I think that line includes some of the greatest games ever made. But I also think SOTN is one of the best ever made even if it's not my personal favorite. I wouldn't want to rob the world (including future generations) of it. Plus I mostly enjoy the Metroidvanias that came after. Also as much as I like many of the Classicvanias the formula almost certainly would have gotten stale and the series would have died way earlier.
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You have not missed much by not playing past the GBA. The DS games were a sharp decline in quality over the GBA games, in almost every way. Even some of the gimmicks felt forced and there solely to have a gimmick.
as for SoTN, it cannot be blamed for what happened after. So No, I'd say that SoTN should stay. in a theoretical time travel retcon though, I would have advised against moving to the GBA.
They should have stayed with the PS1 for a while longer, then jumped to the PS2.
I would point at Mega Man, which I often compare. It stuck to the 2D PS1 style for 2 more games past their PS1 debut, and then jumped to the PS2, where results got fudgy in a similar way to when CV first tried to do 3D. (difference being it wasn't REALLY Capcom's first 3D Mega Man game, though it WAS the first 3D attempt at the classic formula)
I think that had they stuck to the PS1, the production values would have been higher, and there might not have been nearly as much asset reuse.
I guess in general I'd just keep SoTN, but advise IGA AGAINST trying to make SoTN 2.0 and making lightning strike twice. Because in doing so, the franchise stagnated terribly.
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The game is easy, no argument there. But.. are we sure Alucard is a guy? I think i need the Crocodile Dundee crotch check on that one :D
No, i know what your saying, but i still don't understand it. Oh well, at least he didn't sparkle, lmao!
Edit: Just wanted to make sure you know that i am just joking around. New forum and all. It's better to be safe and all that ;D
Ahahaha! No offense taken. :)
If I am not mistaken Kojima was channeling the bishounen characters of shoujo manga from the 70s/80s era then adding her own definition of gothic flair.
True at least he doesn't sparkle. I agree with X in sending that novel series into the void.
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It seems like most people agree on this. The old games are great, but the series would have died without a new direction. As much of a die hard as i am, i do tend to agree. It's watching for new reproduction games and rom hacks for this guy. Classic 2D Castlevania games will never die as long as the original fans are around :D
You have not missed much by not playing past the GBA. The DS games were a sharp decline in quality over the GBA games, in almost every way. Even some of the gimmicks felt forced and there solely to have a gimmick.
Thank you for this information. With the way things were looking i figured this to be the case, but it's nice to hear somebody else confirm it.
Ahahaha! No offense taken. :)
If I am not mistaken Kojima was channeling the bishounen characters of shoujo manga from the 70s/80s era then adding her own definition of gothic flair.
I'm going to take you at your word on that one, lol. ;) I have heard this manga thing talked about before, but i clearly missed the boat. I'm guessing this was a joke, but you managed to convince me. Hell, i dont know anything about it, lol.
And to all who cast the twilight series into the pit.. Solid work!!
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No, I wouldn't get rid of SotN. If it wasn't for SotN, I may not have bought the other games in the series.
I had loved Castlevania III ever since I was a kid, but I never had any of the other games between that and SotN. One day when I wasn't really looking I saw SotN at Blockbuster. This Blockbuster not only had games for rent, you could buy them too. I original saw Digimon World 3, and I was going to buy that. Then I saw SotN. I had little allowance money at the time, and I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get both of them because I wanted both. However, I had JUST enough!
The first thing I did when I got home was play SotN. I laughed my butt off at the intro and almost thought it was stupid at the time. Then Alucard came, ran into the Castle...and Dracula's Castle started playing. The music awed me. I immediately fell in love with the game once I started playing at that point. SotN made me go and check out all the other games in the series, past and future releases. So even though I started with CVIII, I probably wouldn't have checked out the other games if it wasn't for SotN. If it wasn't for SotN, I wouldn't have EVERY USA released game in the series except for the Lords of Shadow games, Dracula X, and Legends. I did have LoS and MoF, but I didn't like them so I got rid of them.
And as a female, to me it had nothing to do with Alucard being attractive (although I do love Alucard, lol) or the easy difficulty. I was born and raised a gamer and I just simply liked the game for what it was. The music and gameplay were interesting to me and I liked it.
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To be frank, SOTN kind of spurred me on as well to check out the rest of the games. Actually, it was the first N64 game more than anything, since around that time I started working for my dad and could buy my own games, and my interest in the N64 one made me emulate and shortly after buy all the other ones.
Grew up on games too, and Super Castlevania IV has been a favorite since I was 6, but my brother and I just never had any other games in the series until he picked up SOTN one day, and it blew my mind and rocked my world and all that.
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@ kaori. You should invest in Dracula X. It's worth it in my opinion. Especially if your collection is that stacked. It was a tough purchase, but i don't regret doing it.
@ freak. That's awesome that the N64 games is where you started. That's one you don't hear everyday. Also, i think castlevania 4 is one of the best games ever made. For nostalgic and difficulty reasons i favor others first, but I think it was the gem of the series.
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That's a tough one, I prefer the classic castlevania style but i really love SOTN and COTM (HOD was Ok) But imo I think the series got weird after that starting with aria of sorrow. for starters the game takes place in the future in japan during a solar eclipse :-\. I haven't really played a game in the series since.
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And as a female, to me it had nothing to do with Alucard being attractive (although I do love Alucard, lol) or the easy difficulty. I was born and raised a gamer and I just simply liked the game for what it was. The music and gameplay were interesting to me and I liked it.
Yup yup. Female gamers have more or less similar tastes as male gamers.
I was talking about the female non-gamers like myself at that time who were lured in by SotN.
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*Raises hand* Another female gamer who was lured into the series by SotN. I blame a chance encounter with Ayami Kojima's artwork, then loving the storyline. It took me a while to get hold of a copy of the game (sadly, only an emulator version), and the rest is history. I'd dabbled with a couple of games in the past, but nothing much. SotN led me to exploring the other games in the series. It's responsile for me being a gamer now, all in all. It's not just that Alucard is gorgeous, and the game is easy. There's everything about it that I like. The levels design, the music... it just works. I love the Sorrow games, and LoI, but I agree that there was a decline. However, imo, that came along with PoR, which I hate. I got as far as the first boss, and just lost the will to play further. However, I'm glathat LoS's come along and again revived the series, much as SotN did.
As for Twi****t, those ARE NOT vampires. They're fairies, taking the p*ss. Come on, they sparkle, and don't even have fangs. Plus, both of the male love interests are creepy as all heck, and not good rolemodel figures for anyone. I'm also with casting them into the abyss. At least Robert Pattinson, who played Turdwood, freely admits to despising the series. I read the first page out of curiousity as to what al the fuss was about, all but threw the book back on the shelf, then went to fetch some brain bleach. They're attrociously written. At least with Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles, the characters are likeable as well as pretty, and the books are pretty well written. Well... until she went completely gaga and off the deep end.
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I agree with Freak.
Plus my 2 cents.
I knew the existence of Castlevania since the Famicom days watching my dad play, but SOTN was the main reason I was hooked into Castlevania (along with lots of female fans who didn't cared about the series until that point). And I actually liked the metroidvania format.
Thus, I won't go back in time.
I too grew up on CV by way of my father playing Castlevania 3 Dracula's Curse. I came away from it for years until I picked up CV4 and then went on to trying to find anything castlevania after that. Once I got my hands on SOTN I knew they really had created something dynamic. Exploration and character building is always fun and has become important in a lot of iterations since. So I would not remove it from the series for anything.
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As an old school gamer and having been practically raised on CV I would say that I would definitely not remove SotN, but I would have made some alterations.
As an avid reader of theoretical physics, I say none of us have the slightest actual idea that the series would have died without SotN.
As to the question of playing the DS games, I'm sensing some undue negativity towards them. Yes they are gimmicky. Yes they have weak, vague stories. But as for the actual game play, Portrait of Ruin and Order of Ecclesia both have merits. Dawn of Sorrow could have just been, and some might argue it should have been a remake. Regardless I would still give the other two a try as they do have unique twists on the classic SotN game play.
That said, I'd love for someone to at least do a graphics hack of both games to update all the reused graphics to match the new designs in each game and eliminate every shred of reused artwork except for the Old Axe Armor.
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Thanks, Inccubus, you've now given me bad physics meme level mental pictures of physics meets Castlevania, such as Schrodinger's Drac. *Facepalm*
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There is no going back. SOTN deserved the praise it had, and it was arguably one of the most innovative and best games of all time.
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Thanks, Inccubus, you've now given me bad physics meme level mental pictures of physics meets Castlevania, such as Schrodinger's Drac. *Facepalm*
You're quite welcome.
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SotN was amazing and a necessity for the evolution of Castlevania. I didn't think the early 3D games were too bad (Curse of Darkness was amazingly fun). However, the newest gen of games really just don't cut it in my opinion.