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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Hardcore Gaming 101 => Topic started by: Dark Nemesis on July 27, 2014, 04:51:06 PM

Title: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Dark Nemesis on July 27, 2014, 04:51:06 PM
Ok, 4 days ago, i've started Dark Souls II and i am before the fourth boss and ready to go to the asylum from the frustration. While the game has better graphics, better animations, better music, enviroments, i find the controls, unpolished.

1) When your character get's hit, he's imobilized, until the attack of the enemy ends, resulting in your death. You can't move, roll or recover, something that the enemies don't have to worry.

2) The estus recover animation, takes over 3 seconds, something that makes it useless in boss fights, since a boss in 3 seconds, can do like 4 attacks at least.

3) You have a great sword and attack an enemy and you can't reach him, but the enemy with a small sword, is capable to reach you and pummel your character to death.

4) The enemy lock future is broken. You have an enemy infront of you and push the lock button, but instead of locking on him, it locks on enemy that he is 5 rooms away from you and you can't see it, making your character turn he's back on the enemy, letting him to pummel you to death.

5) You push the square button to use estus and your character stands there, like a statue, after you have almost rip out the button, 5 seconds later, when it's too late, he goes to use estus, letting the enemy beat you to death.

6) Boss fights, no matter what level you have managed to be before the battle and what gear you've managed to aquire, in human form needs 3-2 hits to kill you and hollow 2-1 hits. Also 5 out of 7 of his attacks, they can reach you from one side of the room, to the other.

7) And last, the roll/back step, is useless. Enemies back step/roll, takes them 3 meters away, when your character get's only half meter away.

I don't know, maybe i'm getting really old, but i find hard my self to enjoy this game, even Demons Souls wasn't so frustrating. Your experience people?
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: X on July 27, 2014, 10:50:50 PM
I picked this title up on the day of release and gave it to my bro to play. He shares your frustration big time. It seems clear that it wasn't that well thought out as it's two predecessors were (Demon Souls and Dark Souls). Maybe they were in a hurry to bring out that "other" title they are currently working on.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Claimh Solais on July 27, 2014, 11:12:58 PM
Well, the difference with this title is they had a completely new team working on it. Many of them before never worked on the Souls games before. So that could be what happened with it. A lot of people in the Souls fanbase hate DS2 as a result of all that.

On the flipside, though, they absolutely love the DLC chapters.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: GuyStarwind on July 28, 2014, 12:55:50 AM
Is this your first souls game?

Edit: I see you played Demon's Souls. Idk what to tell ya? To me this seems just like any other souls game.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: JR on July 28, 2014, 04:07:22 AM
Start putting points into adaptability, if you haven't already. This will raise your agility, which should fix your rolling and Estus issues. When it was all said and done, I think I had 90 points put into agility...from my understanding, it's largely unnecessary to raise it any further than that.

I do feel your pain about your character not responding to the square button when you need it, though. There were many times where I thought I'd start chugging Estus, only to just stand there and have the boss kill me. I think the game is kind of picky about waiting until you're out of an animation frame from when you are attacking or whatever. I learned to start mashing the square button when I needed to flask, but not so much that my character would accidentally take 2 consecutive drinks (which can actually come in handy under some situations).

Also, as far as getting stunlocked...poise doesn't really seem to mean jack squat in this game, as far as I've heard. I remember getting poise high enough to where I could just walk through some of the lesser enemies' attacks, but it also made me not realize when I was getting hit sometimes.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Dark Nemesis on July 28, 2014, 06:31:21 PM
Well, i have finished Demon Souls and Dark Souls and none of them gave that much of a pain. I read about agility and it's effect, on the games wiki page. I know that a game has to be challenging, but having some bosses do a kind of attack, that can't be blocked and it's attack area takes the whole screen and if you get hit you'll die or take 80% of your life, is ridiculus. You level up to the max, you can up to that point and have the best available equipment, only to lessen the damage from 80% to 65%. Lol!!
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Super Waffle on July 29, 2014, 10:45:31 PM
http://chichichichipndale.deviantart.com/journal/Red-Letter-Media-is-making-me-angry-again-471575458 (http://chichichichipndale.deviantart.com/journal/Red-Letter-Media-is-making-me-angry-again-471575458)

But was it this frustrating?
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Rugal on July 31, 2014, 12:28:31 AM
Sounds like it's more your inability to adapt to the game.

Don't blame the game for your shortcomings.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: X on July 31, 2014, 05:27:24 AM
@Dark Nemesis;  You should look into getting the PC versions. Apparently the Nexus Mod Manager now supports Dark Souls and Dark souls II. You should look it up and see what mods they have available for use.

Quote
Sounds like it's more your inability to adapt to the game.

Don't blame the game for your shortcomings.

This is only half-right, but I would not have worded it in that way at all. Dark Souls II is far more notorious to play then it's predecessors. Not even being at a campfire will keep you safe from enemy attack. I know cause I saw my brother suffer a freak attack when he sat down at a campfire to regenerate, and was cut down on the spot. That's just one reason on how amateurish the game was put together. There's a reason why they are called safe zones; To be SAFE from enemies.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Claimh Solais on July 31, 2014, 07:09:24 AM
@Dark Nemesis;  You should look into getting the PC versions. Apparently the Nexus Mod Manager now supports Dark Souls and Dark souls II. You should look it up and see what mods they have available for use.

The only reason I'm ever worried at looking into the PC versions is I've heard some pretty bad things about those ports. Granted, I've never played them on PC (I own all three games on PS3), so I can't confirm it for myself. So yeah, take my opinion on that with a grain of salt.

But yeah, I'm not surprised about a lot of the problems of play on the game. The latest patch completely nerf'd a lot of the magic builds, with those lightning spear arrow thingies delivering piss poor damage now, and you're only able to carry three of them. Not to mention, for whatever reason, ally AI is dumb as shit now.

The magic nerfing doesn't affect me at all, really, since I only ever play tank or DPS builds in games, but it's pretty sucky still. My brother started up a faith build right before the patch, so now his character sucks pretty bad.

Overall, though, while I find the patch pretty suckish, I also find this game to be particularly easier than the other Souls games. In Demon's, I barely beat the first boss, and I can't really progress past that. And in Dark 1, I can't even complete the Undead Burg. But I'm pretty far into Dark 2, having completed several dungeons (I'm level... I think 92?).
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Dark Nemesis on July 31, 2014, 07:27:08 AM
Sounds like it's more your inability to adapt to the game.

Don't blame the game for your shortcomings.

If you believe that cheap attacks from bosses who can slice you in half with one move, is inability to adapt to one game, then i tend to believe, that you haven't played the game at all.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Super Waffle on July 31, 2014, 08:45:34 AM
Dark Souls is a pretty good game.  The problem is the LOL THIS IS WHAT REAL GAMES SHOULD BE LIKE PRO PLAYERS ONLY GIT GUD xD fanbase doesn't quite grasp how it's cheap, bad game design by any feasible standard.  The Souls series have always been niche novelty games.  The defenders seem to think that just because the game is harder than the average modern hand-holding cutscene-dependent dreck (and you're right, those games are awful), this means that it's impossible for the game to be too hard and it's all the player's fault if they think the difficulty curve went overboard.

Yeah, loading screen.  Tell me about the Mysterious Doll some more.  It's so easy to figure out if you jump off the elevator halfway up to Undead Parish, land on a broken ledge, jump across to another wall, glitch-walk up a steep slope with bad collision detection that makes you question if it's even supposed to be a walkable surface, and curl into a ball in the giant crow's nest while staring at the screen for 10+ seconds, you'll be able to travel back to Undead Asylum and open that entire branch of sidequests.  Also, that random buttress in Anor Londo that the player is required to use in order to progress in the main story.  Your game amazes me with its perfectly logical and intuitive design.  I must have been stupid for not finding it on my own.  And Artorias, just keep doing that neat thing you do where you auto-correct in the middle of your air attack if the player tries to dodge roll a millisecond too soon.  It's not like you're rubberbanding like a motherfucker so the player is forced to constantly play as a daredevil or anything.

And to echo the thing about "adapting," yes, it's bullshit.  The only definition of "adapt" here is "Forego any illusion of character creation or developing your own strategy and just learn the exact way we want you to brute force an area through obsessive compulsive memorization.  And even if you jump through all 500 of our insane flaming hoops hanging over our 5000 moronic shark tanks, we'll copy and paste some more Undead in a corner just off-camera so the game can stay wildly imbalanced in the computer's favor and the slightest hiccup will instantly destroy you. "  LOL YOU TRIED TO APPLY YOUR OWN INGENUITY YOU DESERVE TO BE PUNISHED xD

Like I said, Dark Souls is good.  If you're looking for an I Wanna Be The Guy-esque novelty game.  Just don't tell me the hilariously forced difficulty is a myth and anyone who doesn't like the same genre of games as you is automatically a bad player.

To put this into context, I finished all of Dark Souls, including the DLC that gives you absolutely no indication how to start it after you've paid full price for it.  At one point I even wrote a detailed analysis for one of the game's subplots for someone on YouTube.  http://plus.google.com/u/0/114749005149343181997/posts/6aFnycFX3bH (http://plus.google.com/u/0/114749005149343181997/posts/6aFnycFX3bH) So, no, I'm not just some nub crying because waaah i don't kno how beat gaem.  The only thing I never accomplished was beating Gwyn.  I thought the atmosphere was stunning, the enemy design was really creative, the general sense of figuring out how to progress on your own like an old 80s-90s era game was great, and the entire world with all its shortcuts and interconnections made the game feel like a better 3D Metroidvania than any of the actual 3D Metroidvanias.  ...and then all of that was squandered just so Hidetaka Miyazaki could troll you and make you his personal bitch.  The only reason I never got around to beating Gwyn was because, yeah, New Game+ is even more of the imbalanced crap I thought was bad in my first playthrough.  Not happening.

I avoided DS2 because my feelings on DS1 were already extremely love-hate, and wow that game sounds like a trainwreck even from some of the hardcore fans I've heard.  I mean, Hollow Invasions.  Pandering to online griefers, removing one of the only consistent examples of option and balance DS1 had.  What the fuck.

I bought a copy of Demon's Souls a few months ago.  I'm actually looking forward to playing it.  Most of the feedback I've heard is it's difficult in a good way and its ultra-cheap moments are more limited compared to DS1.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Dark Nemesis on July 31, 2014, 06:19:01 PM
The only bad thing, about demons souls, is that if you die, you have to start all over the stage you were playing. One thing, i forgot to mention about Dark Souls 2, it's that if you keep die on a boss fight and don't have a human efigy, to recover, you end up with a 50% less health bar, which in most boss cases, means 1 hit K.O. That means, you'll have to dodge/block every single attack of the boss. Not even Demon's Souls wasn't that punishing.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Super Waffle on July 31, 2014, 07:38:42 PM
Yeah, but Demon's Souls is split into Mario levels (World 1-1 etc.), so that doesn't seem too bad.  Or are they long Mario levels?

The one big warning I've heard about Demon's is the leveling system is completely obtuse and nonsensical if you're playing backwards from Dark Souls.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Gunlord on July 31, 2014, 10:08:06 PM
The leveling system in Demon's Souls can be annoying. It's similar to Dark Souls, but thing is, in Dark Souls you can level up multiple stats in one go, but in DS you have to do them one at a time, which can get boring.

Also, DeS has some VERY frustrating stages, 4-2 and most of world 5 in particular.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Dark Nemesis on August 01, 2014, 10:08:48 AM
Once you start playing it, you'll see the differences your self and they are big!
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Super Waffle on August 02, 2014, 11:25:37 AM
http://chichichichipndale.deviantart.com/art/Dark-Souls-Nuzzling-MUTOs-472563758 (http://chichichichipndale.deviantart.com/art/Dark-Souls-Nuzzling-MUTOs-472563758)

And then this happened.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Dark Nemesis on August 02, 2014, 12:31:43 PM
http://chichichichipndale.deviantart.com/art/Dark-Souls-Nuzzling-MUTOs-472563758 (http://chichichichipndale.deviantart.com/art/Dark-Souls-Nuzzling-MUTOs-472563758)

And then this happened.

Did you write this?
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Super Waffle on August 02, 2014, 01:15:16 PM
...yeah?

Why do you ask?
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Dark Nemesis on August 02, 2014, 01:37:30 PM
Nothing, really nothing, it's just..........i don't know........how to say it.........when i read it, i was  :o
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Rugal on August 02, 2014, 07:20:05 PM
If you believe that cheap attacks from bosses who can slice you in half with one move, is inability to adapt to one game, then i tend to believe, that you haven't played the game at all.

I've beaten every souls game with more than one play through multiple times. There are no "cheap" boss attacks. Learn how to avoid them.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Super Waffle on August 02, 2014, 08:12:41 PM
Rugal confirmed for fanboy.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Claimh Solais on August 02, 2014, 09:13:27 PM
I've beaten every souls game with more than one play through multiple times. There are no "cheap" boss attacks. Learn how to avoid them.

"I've done it! So that must mean the game's not broken!"

Dude, seriously. Your logic is well... bad. The Souls games are NOT gaming perfection, no matter how much you'd like for them to be. Don't get me wrong. I love them. They're fantastic games. But there are boss with cheap attacks, there are several instances of cheap deaths (which is unfortunate, because the game is usually fair about this), and sometimes, the mechanics of the game really work against you.

Now, the fake quote I put up there is a bit misleading. I, by no means, find any of the Souls games broken. But I won't lie, there are times where the game can be pretty fucking cheap.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Dark Nemesis on August 03, 2014, 06:08:18 AM
I've beaten every souls game with more than one play through multiple times. There are no "cheap" boss attacks. Learn how to avoid them.

Since you are such a master, how about making a boss video walkthrough for the rest of us, who we are noobs?
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Rugal on August 03, 2014, 10:41:50 AM
Firstly, when the fuck did I ever say that Souls games are gaming perfection? That's right.. I didn't. Secondly, there are plenty of boss walkthroughs all over youtube for all three games. If you're REALLY in need of help, then go watch them.

And that's right. I am a From Soft fanboy and don't forget it. They're one of the only gaming companies that still exists who still know how to make good games. Instead of coming on here and crying about how the game is too hard or "cheap", and taking shots at me, why don't you try changing up your tactics and watching how the boss moves in order to beat him? I bet you're one of those guys that doesn't watch his stamina bar, runs up and mashes on the attack button.

Maybe this will help you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SNrS1yWWFA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SNrS1yWWFA)
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Claimh Solais on August 03, 2014, 03:22:43 PM
quote author=Rugal link=topic=7382.msg165780#msg165780 date=1407069710]
Firstly, when the fuck did I ever say that Souls games are gaming perfection? That's right.. I didn't.
[/quote]

Okay yeah, I'll admit, that was me putting words in your mouth. I apologize for that.

But I will say the biggest reason people are taking shots at you is that you're coming in with a really negative attitude. Dark Nemesis even stated that he's played through Demon's Souls before, so he has experience in the series. There's no reason to come in, and assume firsthand that he's "blaming the game for [his] shortcomings".

Lastly, though, I will also apologize for taking those shots at you. I shouldn't have done that either, doesn't really help at all.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Dark Nemesis on August 03, 2014, 06:45:09 PM
I know about the videos on youtube, i don't need any, i only said what i said, because of your bad attitude. I'm a tactics guy and not some brute, so stamina is one of the stats i raise first, so i can stand more incoming attacks. For a change, the last boss i fought, sinner, was one of the easiest, didn't even need to heal.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Dark Nemesis on August 05, 2014, 06:44:56 PM
The dark side of Dark Souls........ :o
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: X on August 05, 2014, 11:39:11 PM
To me it looks as thought Little Red Riding Hood found something even more terrifying then the Big Bad Wolf  :o
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Flame on August 21, 2014, 02:59:39 AM
I can answer all of your points with "git gud" but ill go one by one
Quote
1) When your character get's hit, he's imobilized, until the attack of the enemy ends, resulting in your death. You can't move, roll or recover, something that the enemies don't have to worry.
invest points into poise. unlike DS1, poise no longer makes you an unflinchable tank, but it works towards your chance of being interrupted mid animation.

being hit with a dagger while in full havels will still make you flinch, but with high enough poise, that attack with the really long animations will go uninterrupted even if you are being hit.

Quote
2) The estus recover animation, takes over 3 seconds, something that makes it useless in boss fights, since a boss in 3 seconds, can do like 4 attacks at least.
ADP affects estus drinking speed, IIRC.

Quote
3) You have a great sword and attack an enemy and you can't reach him, but the enemy with a small sword, is capable to reach you and pummel your character to death.
thats just wonky hitboxes. also, level adp. it will make it much easier to dodge those "broken hitbox" enemy attacks, since your hitbox while rolling is not tied to your character model, but from point A-B.

Quote
4) The enemy lock future is broken. You have an enemy infront of you and push the lock button, but instead of locking on him, it locks on enemy that he is 5 rooms away from you and you can't see it, making your character turn he's back on the enemy, letting him to pummel you to death.
then be more careful. the lock on is fine. its not the game's fault if you are waggling the stick like crazy making it shift targets. Also, since the game was designed with "dark" in mind, even after they gutted the lighting, the "dark" remains as far as mechanics go. in a 'dark" area, lock on range is halved.

Quote
5) You push the square button to use estus and your character stands there, like a statue, after you have almost rip out the button, 5 seconds later, when it's too late, he goes to use estus, letting the enemy beat you to death.
then don't keep the button pressed.

Quote
6) Boss fights, no matter what level you have managed to be before the battle and what gear you've managed to aquire, in human form needs 3-2 hits to kill you and hollow 2-1 hits. Also 5 out of 7 of his attacks, they can reach you from one side of the room, to the other.
Just don't get hit, and use estus/health gems.

better strategy, level up, invest in good armor, level it a bit, get a good shield, level it, put at least 20 points into ADP so you can dodge, and make sure to be human for boss fights, or have the humanity ring that lowers the amount of max health lost per death.

Quote
7) And last, the roll/back step, is useless. Enemies back step/roll, takes them 3 meters away, when your character get's only half meter away.
again, level ADP so your hitbox is smaller when you roll, and IIRC, moves faster to your location.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Dark Nemesis on August 22, 2014, 05:28:09 AM
Well, i'm almost 160 soul level, have all boss souls and almost to the final boss.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Flame on August 30, 2014, 11:05:00 PM
Anyone playing the DLC? How cash is that Sinh fight?

Dark Souls II Soundtrack OST - Sinh, The Slumbering Dragon (Crown of The Sunken King) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAVCkVclNR4#ws)]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAVCkVclNR4
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: darkwzrd4 on August 31, 2014, 12:25:28 AM
Well, i'm almost 160 soul level, have all boss souls and almost to the final boss.
See you kept at it and you've almost beaten the game. I still, as of yet, not beaten it. But I'm taking my time with my hex build. Just glad that hexes are still good.
Title: Re: Dark Souls II The Frustration!!!
Post by: Dark Nemesis on August 31, 2014, 05:46:05 AM
I am on the last stages of the game, but now i'm stuck playing with tales of xillia 2, so it will be a while, before i go back to it.