Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: ROCKMAN X on August 20, 2014, 12:02:08 PM
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For good or for bad IGA left konami so obviously we're not going get another "symphony of the night 2.0" and mercurysteam is also done with its rebooted failure.
So now the main question is.. what do the fans really want in the next game? a 3d hack'n'slash/adventure game or a 2d sprite based action platformer like the original classics?
IMHO If konami can make a great 2d contra game in current gen then it should also be able to make a good 2d castlevania game.
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Welcome to the Castlevania Dungeon. Enjoy your stay.
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well yuo guys are in luck cuz they hav announced "symphony of the night 2.0" which is due out next year
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/079c68f17fd0179c3fb752d1e38670bf/tumblr_n5nb4mpx9u1s2ut1zo1_1280.jpg)
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For good or for bad IGA left konami so obviously we're not going get another "symphony of the night 2.0" and mercurysteam is also done with its rebooted failure.
So now the main question is.. what do the fans really want in the next game? a 3d hack'n'slash/adventure game or a 2d sprite based action platformer like the original classics?
IMHO If konami can make a great 2d contra game in current gen then it should also be able to make a good 2d castlevania game.
As for the fisrt question: as a fan, I really wish a return to the Castlevania essence, principally in terms of story (please, no more Dracula protagonism). If Konami is planing to make another reboot, I vote for a Belmont (maybe a Simon Belmont) to fight Dracula. Yes, is simple, but that was Castlevania in the beginning. I hate reboots in videogames, but with the actual canon, is difficult to bring a new story (without counting the 1999 War).
In the gameplay, I love the hack n slash genre, but if the games takes again that way, please be original and don`t take too much elements from other ones (I think is unnecessary to name that elements).
In simple words, bring back the classic ambience and the awesome music that Castlevania has years ago.
PS I remember the "C" teaser from an E3 a few years ago. What would happened to that game???
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For good or for bad IGA left konami so obviously we're not going get another "symphony of the night 2.0"
IGA isn't the only one who makes Metroidvanias. Take Strider 2014 for example. But given IGA left I would say it's rather unlikely they have any plans for going that route, otherwise he probably would've attempted to seize on it rather than leaving, although perhaps it was too soon after the LoS series for decision makers within Konami to even be thinking about a new game at the time he left.
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I still want something I know we'll NEVER get, a good 3D CV that focuses on platforming and vertical areas. Even on 3D platformers, vertical areas seem to be shafted because horizontal(as in one plane platforming) seems to take priority over anything else. I think studios feel it's too hard to do right, so what's the use, but I feel it's still a valid area that should be addressed without resorting to the cheapo wall climbing and ledge shimmying in most games. Because, dammit, I want a REAL 3D clocktower game where the majority of it isn't hanging from gears or ledges, hopping up and down with each rung. I wanna leap from spinning gear to spinning gear, onto pendulums and such, within a vertical tower!
Hell, just more traditional platforming in general. I didn't like the CV64 games, but I at least commend the teams for TRYING to include CV-esque platforming, as IGA's 3Dvanias and LoS1 & 2(not counting MoF) didn't even try with the execption of a few sparce areas. I want suspended columns and bridges that are broken apart with pit-like gaps, in 3D!!! Again, I want, basically, traditional CV to make a "perfect" transition into 3D. It probably will never happen, but that doesn't mean I don't want it any less.
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I still want something I know we'll NEVER get, a good 3D CV that focuses on platforming and vertical areas. Even on 3D platformers, vertical areas seem to be shafted because horizontal(as in one plane platforming) seems to take priority over anything else. I think studios feel it's too hard to do right, so what's the use, but I feel it's still a valid area that should be addressed without resorting to the cheapo wall climbing and ledge shimmying in most games. Because, dammit, I want a REAL 3D clocktower game where the majority of it isn't hanging from gears or ledges, hopping up and down with each rung. I wanna leap from spinning gear to spinning gear, onto pendulums and such, within a vertical tower!
Hell, just more traditional platforming in general. I didn't like the CV64 games, but I at least commend the teams for TRYING to include CV-esque platforming, as IGA's 3Dvanias and LoS1 & 2(not counting MoF) didn't even try with the execption of a few sparce areas. I want suspended columns and bridges that are broken apart with pit-like gaps, in 3D!!! Again, I want, basically, traditional CV to make a "perfect" transition into 3D. It probably will never happen, but that doesn't mean I don't want it any less.
I think the hard part about doing a vertical platforming segment is that most 3D platformers, while platformers, are still trying to maintain this sense of realism in the game. And, from what I've seen in several games, realistic vertical platforming segments are really hard to do. Just look at CV64, for example. Granted, the villa was the only really "realistic" portion of that game, save for a couple other areas.
I would like to see a new 3D-vania apply these segments, though. If we got another "spooky" CV (a la CV1 or CV3) rather than a "horror" CV, than there would be no need to focus on realistic looking environments.
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Hard to say in some ways. Castlevania has always been a series that reflects popular ideas about monsters/vampirism. In the 1980s and early 1990s it was a throwback tribute to cheesy old monster movies, especially Universal and Hammer films. The IGA era was more influenced by "Bram Stokers Dracula" as well as uniquely Buddhist and anime-like elements. (And maybe Buffy?) LoS examined the modern obsession with Vampires as "brooding anti-heroes" ala Twilight and so many others.
Personally I would really like to see some more cheesy monster movie throwbacks, but I'm not sure those could be done properly today. Universal and Hammer films are no longer part of the common culture like they were from the 1950s through the 1980s. When they gained generations of new fans decades after their theatrical releases from constant reruns on late night television in an era before (widespread) home video and infomercials.
I have a feeling without Kojima or IGA another "gothic" Castlevania might just feel off, though I'd be up for it and would certainly give it a try. Aside from the Sorrow games, which put an intriguing Buddhist-flavored twist on it, I'm not really interested in Dracula as a hero. Or in Vampire Belmonts.
If I had to guess though, I'd say the next game will probably be a continuation of LoS in some fashion. Knowing Konami it could be a Japan only mobile social game. Just have to wait and see.
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I'd say take influence from Metroid Prime (non-linear exploration and platforming), Dark/Demon's Souls (difficulty and importance on how you move vs how the enemy moves and the environment), and maaaybe that game Zeno Clash (melee combat). I think these elements could make for an extremely interesting 3D game.
But this is Konami, and that would never happen unless Hideo Kojima specifically demands it.
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Honestly I don't care if it's 3D or 2D as long as I'm playing as a whip crackin Belmont in a giant castle fighting monsters.
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I don't think I would mind another 3D hack n' slash if the future developers can make something like the Alucard DLC for LoS2. Areas like the forbidden wing were absolutely fantastic with the creep factor amped up to a level that the main game could not reach even at its best. Abilities all had their use both in combat and out, and the puzzles were interspersed evenly enough to change the pace without being annoying. Add in some more Gothic flair ala Dark/Demons' Souls and you have a generally great direction to point the series towards. I really wish LoS2:Revelations had been expanded more and made into a full game. It was too much of a teaser for something that may never come.
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Well with Konami these days, the next Castlevania will be whatever Hideo Kojima feels like it should be. :P
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I want Konami to try out many different things, although that probably isn't very realistic. I care more about the aesthetics being good.
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In addition to some of the must-haves (great music, gothic atmosphere, whip-toting adventurer ready to slay Dracula, etc.):
- I'd like to see just a little bit of story...perhaps just a intro screen with some story text (i.e. CV3, SotN, CV64/LoD), and maybe even a line (or few) of *short* dialogue within the game (i.e. CV3 with the extra characters) Not that anyone needs a reason to play a game, but it's always nice to answer that question, "What the heck is going on here? Why?"
- I'd like to see just a few weapon/armor type upgrades/customizations (i.e. LoI with 3-5ish options).
- I'd like to see just a few unique playable characters, whether CV3 style, or in the same manner as many of the Metroidvania games. Honestly, I like this idea best when presented as a reward for beating the game...it gives a reason to play again and also makes it a new and different game for that playthrough.
I realize I start all of these with, "I'd like to see...", but my thought is to keep it fairly minimal, but not too much. While I do love the original CV, I wouldn't think such a game would do well nowadays. Games today seem to have so many options and extras, I can't imagine a bare-bones game doing well anymore. :-/ I think I could handle it, and probably some of us here (since we grew up in a time when games were simple, we know it can work well), but I think we'd want the current generation of gamers to get into it as well so the series stays alive.
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Personally I would really like to see some more cheesy monster movie throwbacks, but I'm not sure those could be done properly today. Universal and Hammer films are no longer part of the common culture like they were from the 1950s through the 1980s. When they gained generations of new fans decades after their theatrical releases from constant reruns on late night television in an era before (widespread) home video and infomercials.
That's not really true.. i haven't even watched one hammer horror movie and i can identify almost all the pop culture monsters.
Castlevania is like a fun cheesy amalgamation of all these popular monster myths and it would easily work nowadays if they just make the game enjoyable enough not this bullshit girmdark generic vampire game or the overly anime like plot introduced in dawn of sorrow.
Everyone loves the cheesy pop culture monsters no matter what decade.. all that is required is a great game to go with that,we already have enough generic overly pretentious and 2edgy4me games.
Again, I want, basically, traditional CV to make a "perfect" transition into 3D. It probably will never happen, but that doesn't mean I don't want it any less.
Its all up to koniami if it really values castlevania it should try to innovate and make the bold move to evolve the series into 3d but i just don't have any hope in 3d castlevania after playing the Gods of shadow of the colossus.
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The thing is though, the cheesy monster movie feel is the strongest in the original, and it gradually waned after that. You may have to ask yourself if the series is still about that at this point. I actually really like the idea myself. A game that just embraces the campiness and rolls with it. I wonder how people would react if that really happend.
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PoR kind of did, compared to all the games before it.
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Yeah PoR had possibly the lightest tone of all the handheld Metroidvanias in the series. Then OoE went in the opposite direction, so maybe the higher ups at Konami didn't feel the lighter tone brought enough sales?
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I think the hard part about doing a vertical platforming segment is that most 3D platformers, while platformers, are still trying to maintain this sense of realism in the game. And, from what I've seen in several games, realistic vertical platforming segments are really hard to do. Just look at CV64, for example. Granted, the villa was the only really "realistic" portion of that game, save for a couple other areas.
I would like to see a new 3D-vania apply these segments, though. If we got another "spooky" CV (a la CV1 or CV3) rather than a "horror" CV, than there would be no need to focus on realistic looking environments.
I don't think realistic should be an issue regarding a demon castle that can take many forms. What I liked about Olrox's Quarters in SotN was that to reach him, it was almost tailored for a vampire(long vertical shaft in the ceiling). Similar to the "heart" in the center. It's layout should act as an obstical in itself. Besides, I'm kinda sick of realistically designed locations. Dracula's castle isn't meant to entertain human guests. It should fit him and his monstrosities in a similar fashion the subterranean caverns in The Descent best fit those "Crawlers", not the human explorers.
That's kinda why I never questioned the strange platforming in CV games. I always figured, it's a vampire's castle filled with undead things that can leap and crawl all over the place. Any mere human would find it nearly impossible to traverse, while a Belmont would take the obsticals head on(because they're badass like that).
At least, IMO, that's a valid excuse to go with a less realistic layout.
Technically, I think it would be harder to program, but I DO think it's something that should be addressed, if not solely for CV, for the future of gaming altogether. Most hurdles regarding game design have been encountered, and though hard work, mistakes and pinpointing the problems, they've been surpassed. One example would be fixed cameras. It might not be perfected, but it's sure a helluva lot better than years ago, when it was more prone to get wonked out. It takes great minds to tackle this issues and when they do, that's a step gained towards a better gaming future.
The thing is though, the cheesy monster movie feel is the strongest in the original, and it gradually waned after that. You may have to ask yourself if the series is still about that at this point. I actually really like the idea myself. A game that just embraces the campiness and rolls with it. I wonder how people would react if that really happend.
I'd be SOOOO for it. A total Hammer-influenced Castlevania game. I love that style of horror. I HAVE been aching(for a while now) for an 19th century set CV(not like the ones we got) that reflects that visual style you'd see in a Hammer movie. Something like the Lee Dracula movies, or even like The Gorgon.
(http://www.ferdyonfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Gorgon-5.jpeg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_k4__zh4GdZA/TTzE3zSDFNI/AAAAAAAAB9Y/fWNrlvZrm6s/s1600/gorgon+shadows+in+cemetery.JPG)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GYE3sbvriM4/UN4Sgyq8FYI/AAAAAAAAGh0/K2GWBWyJGV0/s1600/Gorgon+12.jpg)
Or even the Brides of Dracula:
(http://manningtreearchive.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/33.png)
(http://manningtreearchive.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/20.png)
(http://manningtreearchive.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/29.png)
.... DAMN!!!
Something like that in style. Look at the last picture and the use of color regarding the back room and purple-ish light off to the side that's reflecting on the floor. Something like THAT! I'd stake a few vampires for a CV game like THAT!!!
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I'd also like a return of those film sprockets that were on the title screens of the first three games. ;D
Also agree with above post, screw physical realism. I appreciate realistic environments in a game like Silent Hill but Castlevania should be about hopping around and having fun whipping an army of skeletons and bouncing tiny men.
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I think CV should keep a feel of cheesy to it. Don't get me wrong the main story should still be serious but I'd like the game to remember it's a game and have fun within it. Now that's not to say make the game light or more kid friendly but just not so serious that it doesn't capture the original charm. People may disagree but I feel the MGS games have a more serious tone but that doesn't stop them from still having fun and I think CV should or continue (depending on your view) to do this.
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I think CV should keep a feel of cheesy to it. Don't get me wrong the main story should still be serious but I'd like the game to remember it's a game and have fun within it. Now that's not to say make the game light or more kid friendly but just not so serious that it doesn't capture the original charm. People may disagree but I feel the MGS games have a more serious tone but that doesn't stop them from still having fun and I think CV should or continue (depending on your view) to do this.
Yeah Castlevania has always been the amusement park Victorian Haunted House kind of cheesy, not the pie in the face kind. Which is one distinction you want to make between it and series that embraced "cheese" like House of the Dead. I just think it'd be fun to see a re-embracing of Hammer and Universal. Though you might not be able to use the Karloff Frankenstein design these days without a lot more modification to keep from getting sued.
Well after a decade of piddling about after the failure of "Van Helsing" Universal is planning on trying to relaunch their classic monsters in a series "in the style of" the big super hero cinematic universes. So who knows maybe they'll come back in vogue and Konami will reconsider it.
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Yeah Castlevania has always been the amusement park Victorian Haunted House kind of cheesy, not the pie in the face kind. Which is one distinction you want to make between it and series that embraced "cheese" like House of the Dead. I just think it'd be fun to see a re-embracing of Hammer and Universal. Though you might not be able to use the Karloff Frankenstein design these days without a lot more modification to keep from getting sued.
Well after a decade of piddling about after the failure of "Van Helsing" Universal is planning on trying to relaunch their classic monsters in a series "in the style of" the big super hero cinematic universes. So who knows maybe they'll come back in vogue and Konami will reconsider it.
Emphasis on the bolded part. There's different kinds of cheese. Sometimes, it's just an older era looked by from modern glasses that sees it as cheese, kinda like when people nowadays view an 80s Jane Fonda workout video. Back then, it wasn't cheese, people actually used them to work out in their living rooms. Same for older horror movies. I'm pretty sure all those Universal and Hammer films were filmed with serious intentions. Lugosi and Lee weren't going, "Blah blah blah, I'd Drac-OOOOO-lah! I vant to suck your BLOOD!!!".
Personally speaking, I've never been one for something(be it games or movies) that takes itself TOO seriously. I love Nolan's Batman movies, but I'm glad they were only a trilogy and it's over. What I love about the Marvel cinematic universe is that they can go straight serious, but aren't above going cheesy as well, and it WORKS(damn well too)!!
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They should try another reboot. Just with Castlevania DNA this time around, instead of random references being shoehorned left and right.
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They should try another reboot. Just with Castlevania DNA this time around, instead of random references being shoehorned left and right.
This is the Castlevania I want more then anything. But knowing Konami their tunnel vision regarding 'What's hot and what's not' will just get in the way.
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Howz about that cancelled title: "Harker?"
I loved the element of actual stalking a vampire's lair before actually encountering the vampire.
I think that's an element that hasn't been explored in any Castlevania yet you see it many a classic vampire movies.
Imagine having a day or night system in a true open world environments where you could choose when to visit a specific locale to search for vampires. I always imagined it being something along the lines of John Carpenter's Vampires where they are at the beginning in that house looking for prey.
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I don't recall if I said this somewhere else or not, but this all makes me think of Gauntlet and it's recent release (or...near future release...I forget the date.) It looks good! I'm excited to play it (even though I certainly don't have the money to buy it anytime soon after my escapades this year!) I hope to get it someday, and I'd hope my cousins (with whom I frequently played the original Gauntlet) would also buy it, because what I've seen makes me want to play it with them like we did the NES title and GC titles. In one video I saw, one of the producers (I assume, anyway) discusses how they went back to the NES titles for inspiration, using them as a model and essentially trying to make a modern/updated version of them. I haven't played the new game, so I don't know how well they did, but I'm hopeful!
That's what I wish someone would do for CV (assuming I clearly explained the intent behind Gauntlet). Go back to the old games and old style as models.
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This is the Castlevania I want more then anything. But knowing Konami their tunnel vision regarding 'What's hot and what's not' will just get in the way.
The thing is, with game production costs being what they are, if we get something high budget, they're going to have to make some sorts of concessions so that it sells. I think LoS1 did it much better than 2, but if we don't get something big budget, it'll likely be something cheaply done and not worth mentioning like HoDespair.
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The thing is, with game production costs being what they are, if we get something high budget, they're going to have to make some sorts of concessions so that it sells. I think LoS1 did it much better than 2, but if we don't get something big budget, it'll likely be something cheaply done and not worth mentioning like HoDespair.
That's the problem with mainstreaming a franchise. In a way, I'd rather CV didn't go mainstream if it meant "not selling out" for the sake of appeasing whatever current trend is in season. And to be honest, I'd be fine with lower budget CV games if that was the case.
That being said, trend taste is not a concrete thing. Trends change all the time and some have very short lasting power. The thing is, you can't possibly milk it forever, and you can't possibly know how long a trend will remain relevant until the people grow tired of it. Though, probably the most important one, you really don't know WHAT will start a trend(or cause something to gain mainstream appeal). Sometimes things just sweep in and get everybody talking. Sometimes it's almost a counter to the trend the preceded it. I think people/businesses look to trends as a sure thing, but I see them as being just as unstable as trying something original. From my experience, only the frontrunners really reap in the reward that comes with trends. Almost everyone that follows suit solely to captialize on the trending formula gets labeled as being "ripoffs".
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This may seem like a rather non specific answer but here goes. There is no way to determine which way the production team will go as far as making the next game or saga in the series. I liked a lot of the LOS saga though the final game in the series went too modern and for that matter modern warfairy for me. I definitely like when castlevania stays more old school and platform oriented but I do find a value in the more SOTN/RPG aspects as long as implemented for seamless continuity. Castlevania should use the mirror more in its image making it more like Castlevainia. I liked that idear.
For the most part I am in accordance with Egoraptor or AVGN. Keep it dark dangerous damning and keep it Dracula and Death.
Konami should follow what Netherealm studios did with the last Mortal Kombat game and return to what the game was when it first started. Granted the MK series has not had the identity crisis that this franchise seems to be saddled with I think older school is better for now. I would not pass up an opportunity to play a SOTN esque entry but I am a chess guy first.
Here is a random thought. I was going through the top 100 Vania songs on Youtube by VashClone and saw Melancholy Joachim on it. Made me wonder what if they show how someone like Joachim or Walter or Rinaldo ended up in their states. I.E how Walter lost himself to vampirism how Joachim became imprisoned how a Sucubus was made or how Rinaldo became the alchemist that he is known as. Just a thought.
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Bloodborne is looking pretty damn good, I can see Konami chasing that audience for the next reboot.
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Here is a random thought. I was going through the top 100 Vania songs on Youtube by VashClone and saw Melancholy Joachim on it. Made me wonder what if they show how someone like Joachim or Walter or Rinaldo ended up in their states. I.E how Walter lost himself to vampirism how Joachim became imprisoned how a Sucubus was made or how Rinaldo became the alchemist that he is known as. Just a thought.
The Japanese mobile comic seems to go into detail regarding a lot of this. I don't think anybody has translated it, though. Would love to see someone eventually rip it and translate it.
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If I recall correctly, Walter's mother, who is named Bianca in the manga, at some point almost dies while she is pregnant with him, attempts to make a deal with a demon in order to save her life in exchange for her baby. But as it turns out, baby Walter made a deal with the demon first, so his mother dies in his stead and he is born as a vampire. It's pretty awesome.
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They should try another reboot. Just with Castlevania DNA this time around, instead of random references being shoehorned left and right.
NO NO MORE REBOOTS PLEASE!! just bring back dracula somehow or just focus on some other enemy like the Nazis from Hellsing there's no need for another reboot.
What we really need is something "Fresh&Familiar" NOT a reboot which is hit or miss like LOS trilogy,like many have stated just go back to what the original was all about and make a 3d game around it! Castlevania is an "action platformer" NOT a hack'n'slash and NOT an RPG! sure it can have a hint of both RPG&hack'n'slash but no way in hell should it deviate from being an action platformer.
Now looking back at N64 games they actually did one thing right they stuck to what original castlevania was all about but sadly the camera angels&controls were being controlled by dracula himself and COD&LOI follows SOTN more than the originals and the latest game focuses on just being a hack'n'slash/adventure game.
So really the fix is so damn easy.. they just need to make a 3d "Action platformer".. and please try not to rip off PRINCE OF PERSIA KONAMI! >:( he he just kidding they can rip-off off as much as they want assassins creed is a blight on POP's legacy.Bloodborne is looking pretty damn good, I can see Konami chasing that audience for the next reboot.
I don't really want a Dark souls-eque game,its just a slow paced RPG unlike castlevania which was mainly about platforming&action and it was fast paced.
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NO NO MORE REBOOTS PLEASE!! just bring back dracula somehow or just focus on some other enemy like the Nazis from Hellsing there's no need for another reboot.
What we really need is something "Fresh&Familiar" NOT a reboot which is hit or miss like LOS trilogy,like many have stated just go back to what the original was all about and make a 3d game around it! Castlevania is an "action platformer" NOT a hack'n'slash and NOT an RPG! sure it can have a hint of both RPG&hack'n'slash but no way in hell should it deviate from being an action platformer.
Now looking back at N64 games they actually did one thing right they stuck to what original castlevania was all about but sadly the camera angels&controls were being controlled by dracula himself and COD&LOI follows SOTN more than the originals and the latest game focuses on just being a hack'n'slash/adventure game.
So really the fix is so damn easy.. they just need to make a 3d "Action platformer".. and please try not to rip off PRINCE OF PERSIA KONAMI! >:( he he just kidding they can rip-off it off as much as they want assassins creed sucks ass.I don't really want a Dark souls-eque game,its just a slow paced RPG unlike castlevania which was mainly about platforming&action and it was fast paced.
I am in agreement with you. I think the controller technology (at least the stuff I know about) may not be ready yet for the cumbersome task of jump, target, whip/secondary weapon, swing and dodge. Its getting close. Video games are going to require more on your toes multi tasking and targeting. Which brings me to another thought I have.
In the LOS series there was not so much in the way of quantity of enemies as there was quantity of health for enemies.
Which is more preferable. Longer stages treacherous stages with tons of platforming complete with endless bats flying at you from the edge of the screen in a timed cued up wave like pattern ala Castlevania I or minimal enemies with lots of health in a pool area like an arena reminiscent of the main hall of the vampire lords castle in LOS but no ledges. It seems there is a mathematical conundrum with powerful lesser enemies and sudden death platforming pitfalls.
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I am in agreement with you. I think the controller technology (at least the stuff I know about) may not be ready yet for the cumbersome task of jump, target, whip/secondary weapon, swing and dodge.
No problems here buddy.. i have this! (http://hothardware.com/newsimages/Item17563/desktop2k.jpg) ;) there's not a control in the world which a keyboard&mouse can't handle! so even if newer castlevania has control impediment in the consoles it won't be an issue in PC.
I'd imagine catlevania 3d game would be like prince of persia but harder and even if there are checkpoints to compensate for instant deaths there should still be some penalty for dying.It seems there is a mathematical conundrum with powerful lesser enemies and sudden death platforming pitfalls.
There has to be a way around this! POP creators included a time-rewind feature to compensate for instant deaths so castlevania has to do something similar to compensate for constant knock-backs and swarming enemies in platforming or else just remake the concept altogether for a 3d game.
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I'd also like a return of those film sprockets that were on the title screens of the first three games. ;D
Absolutely agree ;D. That`s one distinct thing that I see in CVIII when I played for the first time. I think its gives something special to a game related to Dracula and monsters from horror movies...
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Instant deaths are always cheap in games, but there are games that find ways to make up for the cheapness. In 2D, for example, the Castlevania games always have checkpoints, or Mario games just have short stages in general. Doing things like these in a 2D game removes that "cheap" feeling.
In 3D games, like said already, the Sands Trilogy in Prince of Persia added the rewind feature, so unless you kept repeating the mistake, or were unfortunate enough to be caught in a platforming segment without any sand, you weren't given an instant death. Or, for example, Uncharted. When an instant death occurs (maybe falling into a hole, or hit with a trap), there are checkpoints that take you back only a small amount of distance.
When these instant deaths are things that force you to return to the title screen or from your last save, they can be a heavy annoyance. There ARE ways to make games harder without frustrating the player. Checkpoints and autosaves do NOT make the game worse, but are actually far more convenient for the player. Instead of a death forcing you to repeat a segment, and probably several prior segments due to saving, instead, make the segments harder.
One thing I appreciated about the earlier Castlevania games and especially the Souls titles is the way they handle their difficulty, and I think the next Castlevania should apply this. They don't swarm you with enemies, and they don't give them an unnecessary amount of health (coughLoS2cough). Instead, they give you a ton of unique enemies with different patterns, with enough intelligence to fight you without making the game overly difficult.
Games like Prince of Persia have some pretty shitty higher difficulty levels. All that changes is that you take more damage, and enemies have more health. This is NOT a fun way of making the game harder, it just makes the battle more tedious. The Metroidvanias with selectable difficulties had this problem as well. Instead of ramping up the amount of damage you take and heavily dialing down the amount of damage you dish out, only changes those a bit, while adding new moves to the bosses or enemies, change their patterns, make them faster or stronger, or hell, even add new enemies.
tl;dr: If you're gonna have instant deaths, find a way to make them feel less cheap. And if you're gonna make the game hard, don't make it artificially difficult.
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One thing I appreciated about the earlier Castlevania games and especially the Souls titles is the way they handle their difficulty, and I think the next Castlevania should apply this. They don't swarm you with enemies, and they don't give them an unnecessary amount of health (coughLoS2cough). Instead, they give you a ton of unique enemies with different patterns, with enough intelligence to fight you without making the game overly difficult.
Seeing the more recent footage of Bloodborne from Gamescon, I totally get what you mean.
Bloodborne - Official Gamescom Demo Gameplay: Full Play-thru | PS4 Exclusive Action RPG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWId6_Pemck#ws)
I really disliked the whole "tank enemies" of the LoS games. You look at the footage here and a lot of the more common enemies go down with a couple(three at max) hits, while larger enemies take more hits. That's how it should be in 3D CV games, at least IMO. Battling shouldn't be based on pulling off ultra-impressive mega combo chains(which is the reason enemies have such high HP), but should be more strategic where enemies are more dangerous but most common ones can be taken out quickly for players that think smart. To me, that's like a 3D evolution of 2D strategy regarding action platforming. Know how to lure enemies away from areas where they might hit you off, or time patterns and attacks to not get hit. To me, what let me down with LoS and IGA's 3D CVs were the whole arena battles where exploration is haulted until you defeat a certain amount of enemies to progress forward. Exploration's pacing shouldn't be hindered by that sort of thing. If you can get past enemies by smartly evading attacks, that SHOULD be one of many ways to play the game. You shouldn't be FORCED into combat.
And that being said, I LOVE the look of Bloodborne. Victorian horror.... I'm not shy about wanting a CV that goes full on with THIS kind of setting!
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Why someone removed this post from Nagumo and moved it to the Library?
If I recall correctly, Walter's mother, who is named Bianca in the manga, at some point almost dies while she is pregnant with him, attempts to make a deal with a demon in order to save her life in exchange for her baby. But as it turns out, baby Walter made a deal with the demon first, so his mother dies in his stead and he is born as a vampire. It's pretty awesome.
It was interesting after all... :-\
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Seeing the more recent footage of Bloodborne from Gamescon, I totally get what you mean.
Bloodborne - Official Gamescom Demo Gameplay: Full Play-thru | PS4 Exclusive Action RPG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWId6_Pemck#ws)
I really disliked the whole "tank enemies" of the LoS games. You look at the footage here and a lot of the more common enemies go down with a couple(three at max) hits, while larger enemies take more hits. That's how it should be in 3D CV games, at least IMO. Battling shouldn't be based on pulling off ultra-impressive mega combo chains(which is the reason enemies have such high HP), but should be more strategic where enemies are more dangerous but most common ones can be taken out quickly for players that think smart. To me, that's like a 3D evolution of 2D strategy regarding action platforming. Know how to lure enemies away from areas where they might hit you off, or time patterns and attacks to not get hit. To me, what let me down with LoS and IGA's 3D CVs were the whole arena battles where exploration is haulted until you defeat a certain amount of enemies to progress forward. Exploration's pacing shouldn't be hindered by that sort of thing. If you can get past enemies by smartly evading attacks, that SHOULD be one of many ways to play the game. You shouldn't be FORCED into combat.
And that being said, I LOVE the look of Bloodborne. Victorian horror.... I'm not shy about wanting a CV that goes full on with THIS kind of setting!
Just create a game like this with a bigger emphasis on platforming and it's Castlevania.
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I don't think realistic should be an issue regarding a demon castle that can take many forms. What I liked about Olrox's Quarters in SotN was that to reach him, it was almost tailored for a vampire(long vertical shaft in the ceiling). Similar to the "heart" in the center. It's layout should act as an obstical in itself. Besides, I'm kinda sick of realistically designed locations. Dracula's castle isn't meant to entertain human guests. It should fit him and his monstrosities in a similar fashion the subterranean caverns in The Descent best fit those "Crawlers", not the human explorers.
Sorry, castles that aren't handicap accessible are deemed politically incorrect and not marketable to the mainstream.
Anyway, there's a couple interesting castles I visited and went on behind the scenes tours, especially the the one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fonthill_%28house%29) Mercer built for his home. There's some pretty unaccommodating narrow towers where you step across gaps from doorway to doorway a good bit above the winding steps below. He actually didn't have real architectural training so he worked more like an artist with cement. And I guess if it was traversable or comfortable to him, he thought it was OK and he didn't have to obey a hundred more years worth of building codes and laws we have now. Despite being a sizable castle there's actually no big expansive rooms. There is a lot more room in his museum castle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercer_Museum) though.... and furniture nailed to the ceiling (http://www.gigapan.org/viewGigapan.php?id=6347).
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The issue with making a decent 3d Castlevania? I've yet to play a 3d CV game which (N64 games aside) captures the spirit and the gameplay of CV, translated into 3d. (I only emphasise 3d because of the current market trend for mainstream titles)
Notice with 3d CV, there's never been candlewhipping in the air, no real use of Medusa heads and no plummeting to one's untimely demise when one falls into pits. (lest N64)
The biggest element of CV was always its platforming, and the concept of verticality at a 2d level, and enemies, (Medusa heads, Winged Skeletons etc) attacking, subweapons and so forth being accessible between platforms. I feel much of these concepts have been lost in the realm of 3d, and we receive much less of the enemies (bats medusas etc) and concepts (pits, spikes, candles) which relate to oldschool CV in newer iterations of the franchise.
Please just steer the series away from being wholeheartedly combat based. Combat is good, but CV is not a combat game, it's an action platformer. Not a combat or action game with platforming thrown in.
Why can't there be a game where you're teetering or hanging on a thin ledge and having to whip medusa heads?
Why the lack of verticality and no elements like superjump in previous 3dvanias?
Why is Dracula a sad, misunderstood protagonist all of a sudden? (and why is he Irish?)
Nobody wants to see Belmonts having domestics within an uninspired storyline (MOF, looking at you)
You know that DMC4 boss, the saviour? As a boss fight that feels more like a 3d Castlevania than any other CV game. (Eligor in OOE springs to mind)
Take the positive elements of LOI and LOS' gameplay and use them, because they are good games.
My advice, and I've said it before: continue the original canon in 2d. Continue LOS or whatever new canon in 3d. This maximises the fan base and keeps the hardcore fans happy. The hardcore fans are over it, Zelda got SS and HH for its 25th anniversary, Castlevania got DLC, which should have been free of charge.
Don't piss off your hardcore fans konami, because unless you make another LOS, WE are all you have left for Castlevania.
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The issue with making a decent 3d Castlevania? I've yet to play a 3d CV game which (N64 games aside) captures the spirit and the gameplay of CV, translated into 3d. (I only emphasise 3d because of the current market trend for mainstream titles)
Notice with 3d CV, there's never been candlewhipping in the air, no real use of Medusa heads and no plummeting to one's untimely demise when one falls into pits. (lest N64)
The biggest element of CV was always its platforming, and the concept of verticality at a 2d level, and enemies, (Medusa heads, Winged Skeletons etc) attacking, subweapons and so forth being accessible between platforms. I feel much of these concepts have been lost in the realm of 3d, and we receive much less of the enemies (bats medusas etc) and concepts (pits, spikes, candles) which relate to oldschool CV in newer iterations of the franchise.
Please just steer the series away from being wholeheartedly combat based. Combat is good, but CV is not a combat game, it's an action platformer. Not a combat or action game with platforming thrown in.
Why can't there be a game where you're teetering or hanging on a thin ledge and having to whip medusa heads?
Why the lack of verticality and no elements like superjump in previous 3dvanias?
Why is Dracula a sad, misunderstood protagonist all of a sudden? (and why is he Irish?)
Nobody wants to see Belmonts having domestics within an uninspired storyline (MOF, looking at you)
You know that DMC4 boss, the saviour? As a boss fight that feels more like a 3d Castlevania than any other CV game. (Eligor in OOE springs to mind)
Take the positive elements of LOI and LOS' gameplay and use them, because they are good games.
My advice, and I've said it before: continue the original canon in 2d. Continue LOS or whatever new canon in 3d. This maximises the fan base and keeps the hardcore fans happy. The hardcore fans are over it, Zelda got SS and HH for its 25th anniversary, Castlevania got DLC, which should have been free of charge.
Don't piss off your hardcore fans konami, because unless you make another LOS, WE are all you have left for Castlevania.
Do you know what would work to translate it to the 3D world? Metroid Other M's system.
Metroid Other M has platforming, had the combat, has the map exploration, everything.
Castlevania COULD borrow from this, and finally make it's glorious transition to 3D while looking badass as hell.
And of course, this would be the second time that Castlevania borrows something from Metroid xD
Also, I don't know about you guys, but I actually love how the Belmonts whip in Judgment. That game may have been... Odd... But it sure got it's whipping right in a 3D plane.
Take that, add buttons in place of nonsense wrist movements, put the character inside Metroid Other M's framework, BAM! Badass 3D Castlevania is born.
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Do you know what would work to translate it to the 3D world? Metroid Other M's system.
Metroid Other M has platforming, had the combat, has the map exploration, everything.
Castlevania COULD borrow from this, and finally make it's glorious transition to 3D while looking badass as hell.
And of course, this would be the second time that Castlevania borrows something from Metroid xD
Also, I don't know about you guys, but I actually love how the Belmonts whip in Judgment. That game may have been... Odd... But it sure got it's whipping right in a 3D plane.
Take that, add buttons in place of nonsense wrist movements, put the character inside Metroid Other M's framework, BAM! Badass 3D Castlevania is born.
You know what, as many things as Other M didn't achieve, the gameplay was spot on (although I would replace the waggle-dodge with a backflip if possible) and I have actually voiced the same idea around 2 years ago.
Why can't Castlevania work following the same environmental 'planar' format? This way the game would be more about landing jumps, backflips and timing whip attacks, rather than trying to string combos together.
In fact, two games spring to mind for 3d Castlevania: Other M and Gauntlet 3d. I always thought a 3d CV should be more zoomed out, almost more like its 2d brethren.
Beh.. Maybe some day they will get it right.
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You know what, as many things as Other M didn't achieve, the gameplay was spot on (although I would replace the waggle-dodge with a backflip if possible) and I have actually voiced the same idea around 2 years ago.
Why can't Castlevania work following the same environmental 'planar' format? This way the game would be more about landing jumps, backflips and timing whip attacks, rather than trying to string combos together.
In fact, two games spring to mind for 3d Castlevania: Other M and Gauntlet 3d. I always thought a 3d CV should be more zoomed out, almost more like its 2d brethren.
Beh.. Maybe some day they will get it right.
I personally think it should be a mixture of multiple plane styles. Not all rooms will be presented in the same fashion. Some will be full 3D(and more horizontal platforming could be handled in this style), while like the examples given with Other M. other styles of rooms will be in a different perspective and allow different things. I've always said this you don't need full 3D in every area. Hell, I even though it would be cool(IMO) if bosses were fought in different perspectives. Maybe on boss is fought old school side-scrolling, while another is fought in a full 3D arena style. Mixing up styles would, IMO, make the general presentation more interesting. You don't see many games mix styles. Oddly enough, some of the few do it well(I think New Super Mario World U is one where not only does it feature full 3D stages, but perspective changes depending on various different stages. Some are even handled more 2D in style, and more vertical hillsides pull back to allow a greater view of where you are ascending towards. You need a smart camera programer for this, though. But it CAN be done, and hell, with some choice ideas(even added perspective for dramatic scenes, like entering the castle for the first time), it can result in one WILD 3D Castlevania ride!!
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I personally think it should be a mixture of multiple plane styles. Not all rooms will be presented in the same fashion. Some will be full 3D(and more horizontal platforming could be handled in this style), while like the examples given with Other M. other styles of rooms will be in a different perspective and allow different things. I've always said this you don't need full 3D in every area. Hell, I even though it would be cool(IMO) if bosses were fought in different perspectives. Maybe on boss is fought old school side-scrolling, while another is fought in a full 3D arena style. Mixing up styles would, IMO, make the general presentation more interesting. You don't see many games mix styles. Oddly enough, some of the few do it well(I think New Super Mario World U is one where not only does it feature full 3D stages, but perspective changes depending on various different stages. Some are even handled more 2D in style, and more vertical hillsides pull back to allow a greater view of where you are ascending towards. You need a smart camera programer for this, though. But it CAN be done, and hell, with some choice ideas(even added perspective for dramatic scenes, like entering the castle for the first time), it can result in one WILD 3D Castlevania ride!!
Agreed that multiple varations of platforming/ presentation would create an interesting CV game in 3d.
The issue is, I don't think Konami care as much about its own franchise as the fans do. Even though Iga's 3d castlevanias were not great, they still had that CV element that made you feel like you were playing a cv game.
Konami thrives on big commercial games, the way they have with SH and MG, I'm not certain that the success of CV longevity-wise can be sustained by being heavily commercial. It worked with LOS 1, not so much with the other 2.
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Do you know what would work to translate it to the 3D world? Metroid Other M's system.
Metroid Other M has platforming, had the combat, has the map exploration, everything.
Castlevania COULD borrow from this, and finally make it's glorious transition to 3D while looking badass as hell.
And of course, this would be the second time that Castlevania borrows something from Metroid xD
Also, I don't know about you guys, but I actually love how the Belmonts whip in Judgment. That game may have been... Odd... But it sure got it's whipping right in a 3D plane.
Take that, add buttons in place of nonsense wrist movements, put the character inside Metroid Other M's framework, BAM! Badass 3D Castlevania is born.
So now we've gone from Metroidvania to Metroid Other M Vania? Eh. I haven't played the Other M series but I would be open to it. I do think that a mish-mash of different gaming styles can work. Combining GOW arena enemy wave fights with platforming with SOTN style game play can mesh in a cohesive seamless title. Now if story lines and voice acting get a little more refined....
There is a controller and field of vision issue that needs to be solved. Sorry Rockman X I am not a keyboard mouse fan. I think there is a more ergonomic product out there that would probably suit some of us more effectively. Maybe Dual Shock 4.
I would like to see the game be more first person. Maybe have some areas where you can only go in eight directions as opposed to having full 360 Degree Range Of Motion. This would be reserved for those narrow hallway fights with wave flying enemies ie. medusa heads, bats, gargoyles and ghosts. Also making the main character transparent ala the old Punch Out games may be necessary to have a more head on style of gameplay. COD would have benefitted from this along with some camera tweeking.
There can still be areas with 360 DROM for those endless horde fights.
The only way I can see having SOTN-esque game play is for maybe Alucard to be in toe again following the Belmont character or whoever this time with their foreknowledge. Maybe Simon beats a long vertical area destroys all the obstacles and that allows for Drac's son to fly up a long shaft or use mist or something. Nothing groundbreaking but he can level up his magic and powers by fighting enemies on his way to the boss. In any case there needs to be more platforming in the next title. SMB basically was the pioneer for platforming to wit the original Castlevania formula brilliantly utilized. I liked a lot of what LOI COD and LOS did but amongst the laundry list of complaints the lack of platforming is one that stands out as the biggest departure from what gives the series its identity.
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I would gladly pay $59.99 for a new classic-style Castlevania at this point. Metroidvanias can be good, but it's been far too long since we got an honest to god full effort along the lines of Castlevania III or Rondo of Blood..
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I feel this like identity crisis reflects an aspect of gamers that leaves me perplexed. How many hard core Castlevania fans like Call of Duty and Halo (cheap deaths and one hit kills are ok in that game but Castlevania is too hard) and what side of the CV tracks do they fall SOTN or classic platform? To put it in another way I wonder if they like the powers of Superman who is likened to Alucard or Batman with his gadgets like your typical Belmont character. As for me, dark knight would suffice even though alucard is so bad ass in SOTN and LOS.
Also if we had the power (ha) who do you give the reigns to as far as development goes to make the game more classic renaissance and less post modern?
Why for that matter why is this game not so survival horror based?
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Survival horror has an IP in Konami. It is called Silent Hill.
Castlevania must not tread in Silent Hill territory.
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But it must. It has the tenure long before Silent Hill and Resident Evil for that matter but that does not mean that it should use the same type of game play mechanic as those games I am talking about atmosphere and maybe using oak stakes or impaling weapons on vampires and werewolves and sech.
Um just saw Bloodborne video. DING!!!!!!!!! :o
Now this looks like what Konami should have been doing all along. But does it have platforming?
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Castlevania must not tread in Silent Hill territory.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Castlevania is not a survival horror game. It is a fun, campy mesh of Halloween and classic hammer horror themes. It's an action platform series. Giving Castlevania another identity will be doing what Mercurysteam had already tried to do. I'd rather not see that again. Castlevania has it's own identity and should stick with it for better or for worse.
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So far SotN/NitM is the only Medtroidvania designed to play on a regular full size TV screen. All the portable ones are great, but still aren't the same. If they finally made a big new full screen one with high res 2D with minimal 3D effects that would be something and probably be successful. Otherwise such a big Classicvania production in that vain with the elements of Cv III or Rondo of Blood would begreat. The chances of any of that may be pretty slim though.
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I think it's time for another classicvania, with some minor tweaks.
Take cues from III, Bloodlines, and Dracula X for level design, so branching paths in the castle, unlockable characters after beating the game who can access unique areas... Could have multiple endings based upon branching paths taken in the game or something like that. Put in 8-directional whipping (or some kind of directional whipping, anyway) but don't make the whip so stupidly long/overpowered that it makes most sub-weapons moot in most situations. I'd toy around with the sub-weapon system. Consider adding in the sub-weapons from Portrait of Ruin for extra variety, or give the old sub-weapons a little more versatility, perhaps. I kind of want garlic and laurels to return in a different form. Should sub-weapons be items that replace each other when you pick a new one up in in the original, or should they be like sub-weapon switchable abilities in PoR that you acquire through the game, or even CoD, where you always have access to all the classic sub-weapons? If you pick them up, should collecting more of the same sub-weapon power it up or should the sub-weapon drops change into something else so you don't get copies? Meh, can't decide. The one thing I am sure of is that stakes should be a sub-weapon. I really don't understand why they haven't been in the series much.
Jumping should probably be somewhere between old-school and the newer games. I like having control over my jumps but since SotN, jumping has been overly floaty for the most part.
One thing they should try to avoid are re-colored enemies. I think the series does that a little too much. There are a ton of enemies from the series to choose from; I don't see why re-colors are necessary.
And if it's a home console game, then they might as well go all out; I think it would be awesome if it was a re-telling of Simon's entire story- yes, again. A 'definitive' version, if you will. So the game would be divided into three sections. First section is obviously the first Castlevania, but since the game is in three parts I'd tone the difficulty down a little bit.
The fun comes in where you get to completely re-work the Simon's Quest part of the game. I've always felt that Simon's Quest had a lot of potential but was poorly executed. Many of the metroidvanias have features that would have vastly improved Simon's Quest, like warping. That is the first thing I would add; you can warp to towns, and once you hit the end of a mansion, you have the option of warping out. By removing required back-tracking, this facilitates the implementation of more complex/difficult level design. The game would have more unique areas, every mansion would have a boss at the end that you could not just walk by, sub-weapons would be more diverse, NPCs could still lie to you but you'd be able to gain an optional item that would let you detect when they were lying early on, nothing absurdly cryptic to the point where it's impossible to find without a guide. No levels, no purchasable whip changes because that's stupid. Leveling encourages enemy re-colors and can imbalance gameplay; Simon shouldn't be getting stronger, he should appear to be growing weaker (because of the curse) by making the enemies progressively more dangerous. The game should be challenging; Simon is freaking cursed, and it should show.
And my final change would be this; after gathering all the parts, whoever told Simon to collect the body parts steals them in a throw-back to how he steals Alucard's equipment, and revives the castle. Simon has to work his way back to where Castlevania is. Ta-da. Super Castlevania IV section, but it works more harmoniously with the story, and this is the point where you can really crank up the challenge because at this point Simon is still cursed but he's trying to do what he did in the first section.
$60 2D home console Castlevania right there. Lots of game time, tons of content, a plethora of areas to the point where you could fit in every iconic area and enemy, acceptable story, gameplay variety, replay value with branching paths/multiple endings/unlockable character modes.
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The one thing I am sure of is that stakes should be a sub-weapon. I really don't understand why they haven't been in the series much.
The stake was an inferior version to the sword/dagger, and it was only used in Simon's quest so there was no real need for it. Also the mythos of the oak stake is kind of lost since the Belmonts use the VK.
Jumping should probably be somewhere between old-school and the newer games. I like having control over my jumps but since SotN, jumping has been overly floaty for the most part.
I would say AOS/ OOE handled jumping very well, as well as backdashing to chain combos. SOTN's jumping felt overly floaty, but I also feel that reflected its slower pace of gameplay, which was slower than most classicvanias.
And if it's a home console game, then they might as well go all out; I think it would be awesome if it was a re-telling of Simon's entire story- yes, again. A 'definitive' version, if you will. So the game would be divided into three sections. First section is obviously the first Castlevania, but since the game is in three parts I'd tone the difficulty down a little bit.
The fun comes in where you get to completely re-work the Simon's Quest part of the game. I've always felt that Simon's Quest had a lot of potential but was poorly executed. Many of the metroidvanias have features that would have vastly improved Simon's Quest, like warping. That is the first thing I would add; you can warp to towns, and once you hit the end of a mansion, you have the option of warping out. By removing required back-tracking, this facilitates the implementation of more complex/difficult level design. The game would have more unique areas, every mansion would have a boss at the end that you could not just walk by, sub-weapons would be more diverse, NPCs could still lie to you but you'd be able to gain an optional item that would let you detect when they were lying early on, nothing absurdly cryptic to the point where it's impossible to find without a guide. No levels, no purchasable whip changes because that's stupid. Leveling encourages enemy re-colors and can imbalance gameplay; Simon shouldn't be getting stronger, he should appear to be growing weaker (because of the curse) by making the enemies progressively more dangerous. The game should be challenging; Simon is freaking cursed, and it should show..
I like this idea, though I had an idea in the past where there was levelling up, I feel that in some sense levelling up is more rewarding than learning new techniques. I'm not certain why, but I always feel more satisfied playing Castlevania's where one could level up. My initial idea was this:
Level 1-10 is the leather whip, 10-20 the thorn whip, 20-30 the morning star, 30-40 the flame whip (I know I've missed the chain whip, but rarely do players need to level up to L50)
My opinion would be that on the normal mode of the game you can level up, on hard mode, only your whip changes when having slayed enough enemies, on the hardest mode you can not level up the VK and you're stuck on Level 1.
i.e. same as POR and OOE on the hardest setting.
Like CV64/ LOD, including the difficulty settings to have harder/ faster and more difficult platforming, the harder the setting.
Include a day/night seamless transition, whether inside or outside mansions, which makes enemies actually change and take/ deal 1.5 x or 2 x damage.
Perhaps include a nightmare mode where it's like the hardest setting, but Simon just keeps getting weaker, the longer the game is played. Until the point where he will eventually die from 1 hit of any enemy.
No checkpoints mid way through bosses, for the love of god. Depending on the difficulty should determine where/when/how these are included. Nightmare mode should be more like oldschool gaming, no checkpoints, just continuing from a save point.
Adding this mode means casuals don't have to wet their whistles with frustration and discipline which the more hardcore gamers thrive upon.
Of course the harder the mode finished, the better the ending, the hardest mode should have a final form of Dracula which is unseen in other modes.
And my final change would be this; after gathering all the parts, whoever told Simon to collect the body parts steals them in a throw-back to how he steals Alucard's equipment, and revives the castle. Simon has to work his way back to where Castlevania is. Ta-da. Super Castlevania IV section, but it works more harmoniously with the story, and this is the point where you can really crank up the challenge because at this point Simon is still cursed but he's trying to do what he did in the first section.
I would say rather than stealing body parts, Dracula just tells Simon that he's too late, reassembling his body has re-awakened the Castle, thus allowing Dracula to reach full power. Castle rises up around Simon, Drac flies off to the throne room, Simon has one final quest to take on.
Really solid ideas though, I like them, Simon's adventure is overdue for the next gen imo.
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I would gladly pay $59.99 for a new classic-style Castlevania at this point. Metroidvanias can be good, but it's been far too long since we got an honest to god full effort along the lines of Castlevania III or Rondo of Blood..
To me classicvanias just do not have enough replay value for todays market to even warrant a 59.99$ price tag.
Not to mention the difficulty, it would hardly be worth the money in my honest opinion.
I love classicvanias so don't get me wrong, SCIV is still my second favorite castelvania game period, but classicvanias nowadays should be no more than 20 bucks even the new ones if you ask me.
That being said metroidvanias should be like 40 bucks since compared to classicvanias there is a lot more to do such as exploring and collecting items/weapons, and there is also unlockable modes that add to the replay value.
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This would never happen, but a classic-style Castlevania with a $59.99 price tag but with actual extra content to make up for it would be very interesting. Simply cramming more stages into the game or making them longer probably wouldn't work. They would pretty much have to follow the same template as Rondo which has the most content of the classic games. Probably the difficulty should be kept around the same level too, to make it accessible. I wonder what other features they could add?
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Just play Castlevania the lecarde chronicles if you want to know how a classicvania can have more content. It's a perfect example.
As far as pricing goes... Anything from $5.99 to $15 is a good price for a classicvania or a metriodvania. I disagree with the replay value of a metriodvania being superior. I feel it is quite the opposite. Classicvanias can always challenge you with time and points. And it also comes down to taste.
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I disagree with the replay value of a metriodvania being superior. I feel it is quite the opposite. Classicvanias can always challenge you with time and points. And it also comes down to taste.
Disagree.
I like classvanias man, but its pretty much getting from point a to b and then your done.
Now there are some classivanias that give you secret routes and such, but metroidvanias leads more to exploration of a huge area, and finding out secrets,items,spells, and weapons and leveling up etc.
No matter how you slice it there is just more to do in a metroidvania.
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Perhaps include a nightmare mode where it's like the hardest setting, but Simon just keeps getting weaker, the longer the game is played. Until the point where he will eventually die from 1 hit of any enemy.
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I would say rather than stealing body parts, Dracula just tells Simon that he's too late, reassembling his body has re-awakened the Castle, thus allowing Dracula to reach full power. Castle rises up around Simon, Drac flies off to the throne room, Simon has one final quest to take on.
I really like all the ideas of Simon getting weaker due to the curse...but how would this work with there being another game after it? Nightmare mode especially, but even "regular" modes dying from the curse, you can't really make that whole part of the game where Simon dies from one-three hits. That'd be challenging, for sure, but I think by that point it might be too much.
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Replay value is not dependent on surplus content. Cramming a bunch of pointless secret areas and useless items into a game doesn't make me want to play it again.
It seems we disagree fundamentally dark prince.
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Replay value is not dependent on surplus content. Cramming a bunch of pointless secret areas and useless items into a game doesn't make me want to play it again.
It seems we disagree fundamentally dark prince.
lol useless, not ALL of them are useless.
So you don't like having to explore a huge castle and get items and weapons and yet you would rather play through the same old levels over and over again as your ideal "replay value"?
Makes no sense to me man sorry, it just seems like you hate metroidvanias and love classivanias and just want to hold classicvanias on the same level as metroidvania in all areas which simply is not possible.
It just seems so obvious which of the two has more replay value.
I love both of them, but I can beat a game like SCIV and while I enjoy it greatly every step of the way I will be done with it afterwards, that is because there is nothing aside from getting from point a to point b and the only thing left would be playing the same old levels over again, granted some of the classicvanias offering more in diverging paths.
On the contrary with metroidvanias however I can explore a huge castle with no getting from point a to point b.
I can find secret areas,weapons,and items in that huge castle.
I can level up and make my character completely OP if I choose.
And even after going through such a game, I actually get a unlockable mode that lets me play as a character pretty different from the one I played with my initial playthrough, giving me incentive to revisit the experience again through a new playable character.
Its just so obvious man, I get that you love classicvanias, I do to, but its no reason to turn a blind eye to the obvious edge in replay value metroidvanias have.
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A big reason why I would rather replay a classicvania than a metriodvania is because the platforming is actually challenging.
I play video games for the reflex challenge. It's the same reason that I can replay tetris over and over. Starting over with nothing, and doing the absolute best you can, over and over.
Although I love metriodvania games as well, and understand the appeal of virtual item hoarding, I can't agree with your theory because my own existence contradicts it.
I love both styles of games. But I have replayed the hell out of Castlevania Bloodlines, and I played through Dawn of Sorrow one time, and just about every other Metriodvania once. Sure, the time it takes to beat a metriodvania is longer, but I never have even the slightest urge to replay them from the beginning again. I typically like to replay most of the Classicvanias once a year or so. Times that by 20 something years and you can begin to see why I disagree with you.
I game that way, and a lot of my friends do as well. And it's certainly not limited to Castlevania (Mario Bros, Balloon Fight, Shinobi, Contra) And hell, even Flappy Bird just name a few.
Anyways back to my point. Replay value is not dependent on surplus content. It's dependent on a challenge that never dies. Simpler games offer that in a much more pure way. There is no fat to chew through to get to the real meat.
Apparently all is not as obvious as you would assume.
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Apparently all is not as obvious as you would assume.
Lol whatever man, I layed out the content in front of you as far as replayability goes and you still don't see it.
I personally think its obvious to anyone with eyes really, no offense intended.
But I'm done with this converastion, I will agree to disagree and move on at this point.
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They are two different types of approachs and two different type of replay values.
The replay values on metroidvania lies on the extra modes.
The replay value on classicvanias lies on repeating the levels (in different order/different character if possible).
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@ Dark Prince: I'm not 100% sure on what you think "replaying" something is anymore. I think picking up a game you have beaten from start to finish 3 times or more, and still having the urge to play it again even after decades constitutes the title of "good replay value". I'm starting to think that good replay value to you is beating a game, and spending hours thereafter troll roaming around the levels as you rank yourself to the point that the enemies are no longer threats as you search for the last crumb of an item you haven't yet attained. You're not really replaying the game anymore at that point. You are simply lingering around within it. Sure, I guess that's still hours spent with the game, but to me, that is not "good replay value". It's superfluous gameplay in my opinion.
So I to will agree to disagree based off of that alone.
But just for the record, I understand that other gamers find that appealing. I think there are different kinds of replay value. You're right in the way you feel about your genre of choice, but you are wrong to declare that it is the only kind of good replay value.
It's certainly not a black and white debate, and it's also not an obvious one.
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Thanks for that post Maehdros. You wrote that as I was typing, and I totally agree with you.
That's what I was trying to say.
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But just for the record, I understand that other gamers find that appealing. I think there are different kinds of replay value. You're right in the way you feel about your genre of choice, but you are wrong to declare that it is the only kind of good replay value.
I was not arguing which has GOOD replay value, I was arguing which has MORE.
Metroidvanias have more meat on its bones than classicvanias, it has more to do and offers unlockable modes and characters while classicvanias do not.
I'm not arguing whether or not classicvania has good replay value, I'm sizing its replay value up in comparison to what metroidvanias offer.
See, one thing your going to find hard when in a discussion with me is that I simply can not walk away as long as you keep up with posts like these, feel free to continue on if you want to be at this for days.
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I've said this elsewhere, but I'd like another game in the style of Vampire Killer.
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They are two different types of approachs and two different type of replay values.
The replay values on metroidvania lies on the extra modes.
The replay value on classicvanias lies on repeating the levels (in different order/different character if possible).
This is true.
What about a lot of the stages of CV64/ LOD?
I'm thinking particularly the forest level/ castle keep/ villa.
You had to do things, but these levels were all open ended.
In all honesty I haven't replayed LOD as much as say SOTN, but it was pretty close.
I really like all the ideas of Simon getting weaker due to the curse...but how would this work with there being another game after it? Nightmare mode especially, but even "regular" modes dying from the curse, you can't really make that whole part of the game where Simon dies from one-three hits. That'd be challenging, for sure, but I think by that point it might be too much.
Well think of it this way, in CV II Simon never got weaker - this would be 'normal' mode. From the CV II component of this game, Simon is cursed and the following rules apply:
Normal - Simon levels up, whip changes every 10 levels, doesn't get weaker as time passes, enemies are stronger at night (but not inside towns/ mansions)
Hard - Simon doesn't level up(at base level 1), whip changes when he's slayed the equivalent amount of enemies = 10 levels, doesn't get weaker as time passes, enemies are stronger at night (inside towns/mansions with seamless transitioning)
Very Hard - Simon doesn't level up(at base level 1), whip never changes (stays at leather whip), Simon doesn't get weaker as time passes, enemies are stronger at night including bosses (inside towns/mansions with seamless transitioning)
Nightmare - Simon doesn't level up(at base level 1), whip never changes (stays at leather whip), Simon gets weaker as time passes, enemies are stronger at night including bosses (inside towns/mansions with seamless transitioning), Dracula has a hidden final form which is devastatingly difficult.
Only veterans would be playing on the hardest setting. This way casual gamers would not have to. I don't see why this can't work, DMC has Dante must die mode. Again, nobody will play that unless they love the game, and/or are really into the series.
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I really like all the ideas of Simon getting weaker due to the curse...but how would this work with there being another game after it? Nightmare mode especially, but even "regular" modes dying from the curse, you can't really make that whole part of the game where Simon dies from one-three hits. That'd be challenging, for sure, but I think by that point it might be too much.
You don't have to make Simon weaker or give recolored versions of the same enemies better stats. Just make the level design and enemy placement progressively more challenging, like in other games, but make it more pronounced, and emphasize the progression with music and visuals that become increasingly more... haunting. Have the first time he beats Dracula not be too challenging (final area or two excluded for obvious reasons), but once he is cursed the difficulty really starts to pick up in the game.
Generally leveling systems either give the 'illusion' of increased difficulty, or they are outright tedious. The level restrictions in the Metroidvanias, for example. Has anyone actually completed a level 1 Albus Mode run? I tried it and it was painfully tedious. It's an easy way to illustrate a cursed Simon but it can really mess with difficulty balancing and it encourages the use of recolored enemies, which I think the series should try to step away from at least a little. Especially if we're paying $60 for the game.
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@Zang ...or whoever I guess -- I meant, with putting CV4 in place to play after Simon beats Drac...would it really be "good" to have that entire game at such a high difficulty, particularly if someone is playing the nightmare mode and Simon is killed by 1 hit of anything? Would anyone really want to play that much/long of a game where they're constantly worried about being 1-hit killed?
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Generally leveling systems either give the 'illusion' of increased difficulty, or they are outright tedious. The level restrictions in the Metroidvanias, for example. Has anyone actually completed a level 1 Albus Mode run?
I'm up to Dracula, after completing Shanoa's run. Confident that in the next week or so, depending on work he will die a terrible death.
I've lost a bit of interest in gaming lately due to other commitments so this got put on the backburner for a bit.
@Zang ...or whoever I guess -- I meant, with putting CV4 in place to play after Simon beats Drac...would it really be "good" to have that entire game at such a high difficulty, particularly if someone is playing the nightmare mode and Simon is killed by 1 hit of anything? Would anyone really want to play that much/long of a game where they're constantly worried about being 1-hit killed?
Android, that's what I'm saying, you're not being 1-hit killed unless you choose the hardest difficulty.
If a game offers you 4 difficulty settings and the final is called nightmare, then why would you choose to play on that difficulty if you didn't want to be tortured?
I'm not sure why games just can't offer an extremely hard difficulty, at the end of the day it increases replay value, it's a game, if people want it to be extremely difficult they should have the option. For those who don't just let the difficulty arise in increments (which includes platforming, combat etc) simple.
Hence, if you played on normal>hard>very hard it would get progressively harder but you wouldn't be 1 hit killed... Very hard would just be 'very hard' and so forth.