Castlevania Dungeon Forums

The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: crisis on October 02, 2014, 02:56:06 PM

Title: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: crisis on October 02, 2014, 02:56:06 PM
Castlevania Lords of Shadow Simon Belmont Beta Footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR2bb2OfdbY#ws)

for those of you that are unaware, this was their original pitch for their idea of next-gen castlevania (sry for poor vid quality). it was still a reboot, but more in lines with CV1 in that it was a remake/retelling of that story. had this been greenlit instead of lords, then i wonder how things wouldve inevitably turned out? perhaps Lords of shadow 2 would've been a remake of Simon's Quest instead? or maybe Mirror of Fate would've been that, and Lords 2 would instead be a retelling of Dracula's Curse?

maybe the series would've been better off that way? a "soft reboot" of the mythos. perhaps the series wouldnt be in limbo as it is now. just something to think about
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Mike Belmont on October 02, 2014, 04:38:29 PM
Oh, yeah, I remember that video from some time ago...

...Now that I think, that hooded warrior looks a lot like Victor Belmont (from LoS 2, of course) to me.

As for a "soft reboot", well, if the ambience present in this video would have been the whole first game, then I would like it a little more than the game LoS was. My only complaint, is the Combat Cross as a weapon... I prefer the Vampire Killer.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Dremn on October 02, 2014, 05:28:35 PM
It probably wouldn't be that much different.

Simon's got that cursed gauntlet Gabriel ended up having, I actually like his redesign in Mirror of Fate a lot more than the Simon we see here.

That being said though, a soft reboot sounds like a good idea.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: X on October 02, 2014, 06:01:55 PM
I think Mercurysteam would have had issues with Ubi soft over Simon's design choice. To me Simon's outfit (hood and the like) says Assassin's Creed. That stylization is plain to the eyes.

Quote
I actually like his redesign in Mirror of Fate a lot more than the Simon we see here.

That would have been better for the original pitch too.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Sean Noonan on October 02, 2014, 06:10:14 PM
Always interesting to see stuff like this :)
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: theANdROId on October 02, 2014, 09:43:42 PM
Yeah...I wanna play this.  It feels more like Castlevania.  Maybe keep the way Gabe looked in LoS, but the atmosphere in this is more what I'd hoped for.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on October 02, 2014, 10:10:21 PM
Ah... the what ifs.
And it looks like Simon is a member of the Creed. hehehe. I just remembered that Vlad was killed by an Assassin in the AC universe.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: GuyStarwind on October 02, 2014, 10:27:06 PM
Still knowing them Simon being cursed would actually be the curse of being Dracula and in their version of Simon's Quest he has to kill himself in the end
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Kingshango on October 02, 2014, 10:37:31 PM
I'd like to point out that the piece of artwork at the beginning of the video is the most Castlevania looking piece of artwork they've done and I wished LOS looked more like it. If that was from the one who left the company, then Mercurysteam lost hard.


That said, I don't think Ubisoft wouldn't mind that he looked like an assassin considering they've managed to get away with Victor's appearance. :P But im glad they've decided on the barbarian look for Simon in MoF.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on October 03, 2014, 02:51:43 AM
I think Ubisoft doesn't mind copycats and even copy pasting of some of their code. (Wink wink Shadow of Mordor)
They would just say, "wow we really are ubiquitous and the industry loves us! More publicity for us, whee~"
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: beingthehero on October 03, 2014, 08:56:19 AM
I guess they weren't terribly original even then. But then again, CV1's cover was Conan the Barbarian traced over a frank frazetta painting while Joker with fangs laughs in the background, so Konami has always been copycats.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Maedhros on October 03, 2014, 03:10:42 PM
I think Ubisoft doesn't mind copycats and even copy pasting of some of their code. (Wink wink Shadow of Mordor)
They would just say, "wow we really are ubiquitous and the industry loves us! More publicity for us, whee~"
Shadow of Mordor copied Ubisoft code?
Or simply made something that looks like Assassins Creed? Two COMPLETELY different things.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Belmontoya on October 03, 2014, 06:18:37 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think the Simon design in MOF is terrible.

I love the barbarian Simon, and I think he is best that way. But the MOF version.... Ugh with that accent. It just made me hate him. I have to also add that I think the Trevor design from MOF was equally bad.

My vote for the best Simon design is a tie between Simon's Quest and SCV4. Although I think a modern rendering of the Simon's Quest design would look most unique and probably be the best if it were done well.

I think Gabriel from LOS looks great and I would have been more than happy if his name were Simon, just as he was. It was close to a Simon's Quest look.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Mike Belmont on October 03, 2014, 06:32:21 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think the Simon design in MOF is terrible.

I love the barbarian Simon, and I think he is best that way. But the MOF version.... Ugh with that accent. It just made me hate him. I have to also add that I think the Trevor design from MOF was equally bad.

My vote for the best Simon design is a tie between Simon's Quest and SCV4. Although I think a modern rendering of the Simon's Quest design would look most unique and probably be the best if it were done well.

I think Gabriel from LOS looks great and I would have been more than happy if his name were Simon, just as he was. It was close to a Simon's Quest look.

I am agree with you. To me, MS wants a Simon in MoF to look like the classic games (a barbarian from the first game; a redhead from the Chronicles version). I think that the design could be better. When I knew that Simon and Trevor will be the protagonist for MoF, I expected something different in their designs. I have nothing against Trevor design, but I simply don´t like Simon´s one.

The design for Gabriel in LoS was better, as you said, close to Simon´s Quest version.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Kingshango on October 03, 2014, 09:18:03 PM
I wonder how Dracula would have looked in their original remake? A throwback to the Bela Lugosi Dracula or the long haired old Dracula from the epilouge, only way stronger?
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on October 04, 2014, 02:16:27 AM
Shadow of Mordor copied Ubisoft code?
Or simply made something that looks like Assassins Creed? Two COMPLETELY different things.

There were some articles quoting a former Ubisoft employee saying that some of AC2's code entered Shadow of Mordor.
Here's one: http://www.ibtimes.com/middle-earth-shadow-mordor-developers-brush-assassins-creed-comparisons-1697936 (http://www.ibtimes.com/middle-earth-shadow-mordor-developers-brush-assassins-creed-comparisons-1697936)

I wonder how Dracula would have looked in their original remake? A throwback to the Bela Lugosi Dracula or the long haired old Dracula from the epilouge, only way stronger?

Either would be fine.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Flame on October 04, 2014, 02:29:31 PM
I'd like to point out that the piece of artwork at the beginning of the video is the most Castlevania looking piece of artwork they've done
Excuse me

(http://s1.postimg.org/6waf8aj2l/castlevania_digital_art_castlevania_lords_of_sha.jpg)

then there's also the LoS portrait of Gabe from the Jap and Special edition covers, which is like something you might have seen in the Ayami kojima days.

http://s11.postimg.org/b2zvok9v7/gabriel_20.jpg (http://s11.postimg.org/b2zvok9v7/gabriel_20.jpg)

dat hair tho. I really wish theyd kept that in-game instead of giving him the salon treatment.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: theANdROId on October 04, 2014, 04:40:00 PM
I think I like short haired Gabe better.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on October 04, 2014, 11:09:06 PM
http://s11.postimg.org/b2zvok9v7/gabriel_20.jpg (http://s11.postimg.org/b2zvok9v7/gabriel_20.jpg)
dat hair tho. I really wish theyd kept that in-game instead of giving him the salon treatment.

That fab hair would have been too difficult to animate.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Anglachel on October 05, 2014, 09:05:43 AM
I liked the hair that Dracula had in the E3 2012 trailer the most.

...Heck, I like that trailer more than the game.  :P
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: DoctaMario on October 06, 2014, 05:32:43 PM
Interesting to see that video. I doubt the game would have been much different, but I often wonder about the difference between the game MS wanted to make and the game Konami wanted them to make.

As for the redesign of Simon, I liked it enough, but I hated that they made him a douchebag. Pretty good, but that's not my Simon lol!
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Flame on October 06, 2014, 06:56:03 PM
Interesting to see that video. I doubt the game would have been much different, but I often wonder about the difference between the game MS wanted to make and the game Konami wanted them to make.
if not for Konami pulling the rug on the Castlevania IP from them, the game might very well have been that CV1 remake they wanted to make. it was having to change everything to be original that ended up with the reboot.

Quote
As for the redesign of Simon, I liked it enough, but I hated that they made him a douchebag. Pretty good, but that's not my Simon lol!
well, they made him a barbarian. brutish and crude. I like it. His original look was based on Conan, and Conan was pretty fucking brutish.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: DoctaMario on October 10, 2014, 09:11:25 AM
if not for Konami pulling the rug on the Castlevania IP from them, the game might very well have been that CV1 remake they wanted to make. it was having to change everything to be original that ended up with the reboot.
well, they made him a barbarian. brutish and crude. I like it. His original look was based on Conan, and Conan was pretty fucking brutish.

Iiiii didn't know they wanted to do a CV1 remake! O_o That would have been pretty interesting, a CV1 remake with LoS flavor.

I don't mind Simon's look in MoF, I just hate the way they made his personality. There's something about assigning personality characteristics to characters like Simon, Link, Samus, etc who, for the longest time didn't have anything like that. You were able to freely decide what you wanted them to be. In a way, this modern day assignment of personality to previously created characters kills that for me.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: theANdROId on October 10, 2014, 11:28:58 AM
I never really understood the people who hated the silent protagonist...he or she has a purpose!  ;)
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Belmontoya on October 10, 2014, 12:25:00 PM
I agree with dr. Mario. The personality ms gave Simon was the really bad thing. Although I also didn't like the way he looked.

Silent protagonists are a great thing. It allows the player to feel more connected with the game in a way. It's hard to explain why but I do agree.

Games don't do that enough anymore. Destiny did it and got ripped by critics for it. I think they missed the point.

Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: theANdROId on October 10, 2014, 09:49:18 PM
It seems to me that the silent protagonist has always gotten ripped, as if hardly anyone understands, as you said, that it allows the gamer to connect with the game...or allows the gamer to fill in the personality blanks however they want to.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Flame on October 10, 2014, 11:55:24 PM
thing is, with a silent protagonist, theres only so much you can really do with the character.

Besides, it's not like Simon has that much personality in MoF outside of revenge and "HURR IMA  BARBARIAN"

Trevor has more, but only because we saw him interacting with his family, Dracula, and as Alucard, so he feels a bit more fleshed. He's really just Gabe 2.0 And his gameplay is really meta about that fact.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Akumajou Jason XX on October 11, 2014, 12:25:59 AM
Nothing could have saved the Mercury Steam games.  Bad idea from start to finish.  As far as redesigns go, though, I'm having a hard time reconciling the classic "barbarian" image of Trevor and Simon.  Leon was a knight, and yet somehow his descendants were barbarians?  Just doesn't sit well with me.

If we got a reboot, I'd like to see the Belmonts as knights in general, with equipment upgrades that show on their costumes as they're obtained.  Hell, let them use swords and other weapons aside from a whip, while you're at it.  The whole thing about Leon abandoning everything, "even [his] sword", at the beginning of LoI was just laughable.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on October 11, 2014, 01:07:48 AM
If we are to go by IGA's canon, Leon shunned his duty as a knight of the Church just to hunt the night. This meant shunning all wealth and prestige that comes with it, which could possibly lead his descendants to become barbarians. But they eventually were able to return to their former status after the Church recognized their efforts.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Akumajou Jason XX on October 11, 2014, 02:19:54 AM
I notice he didn't shun the clothes and armor the church provided for him.  Just the sword.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Nagumo on October 11, 2014, 05:14:40 AM
I don't think you're supposed to rationalise how the  barbarian designs fit in within IGA's view, because I think he simply ignores it and pretends all Belmonts are nobly dressed Bishies. Kojima Simon is a bit of a compromise in that sense. It's one of the weird side effects of SotN tying all games in one continuity, regardless if it really works. I always prefer to see the two aesthetics as two different takes on the series, and keep them separated.
Title: Re: MercurySteam's original pitch
Post by: Akumajou Jason XX on October 11, 2014, 01:31:32 PM
Yeah, that sort of thing happens all the time in any long-running franchise.  I think it would be great if future Belmonts were knights, but beating the game let you play in a barbarian-style costume.