Castlevania Dungeon Forums
Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: Mooning Freddy on December 05, 2014, 09:28:05 AM
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"Our enemies have beat us to the pit. It is more worthy to leap in ourselves, than tarry till they push us."
Marcus Brutus, "Julius Caesar" (Shakespeare).
I have come across this phrase while reading William Shakespeare's tragedy. The situation is well-known: Marcus Brutus and Caius Cassius lose the war to preserve the Roman republic against the armies of Mark Anthony and Octavius Caesar. In defeat, both decide to commit suicide.
It made me think. In Roman tradition, it was considered more honorable to take your own life when facing a certain defeat than falling into the hands of your enemy. The same tradition existed in other cultures as well, like among the Japanese samurais. According to Josephus Flavius, so did the Jewish rebels in Masada, when they were about to be overcome by the Romans.
However, is suicide really the better choice? We know that in Roman tradition, like in other empires, it was not unusual for the winner in war to spare the loser's life, or at least his commanders' or supporters' lives. Like Josephus (according to his story), the loser was often offered pardon for joining the side of the winner, and this could allow the loser to rise to a status higher than before. On the other hand, the loser could also suffer torture or a humiliating death as a result of giving in.
Then again, you can always fight to your last breath and die on the sword of your enemy; in my opinion, it could be more honorable than taking your own life.
We rarely have philosophical discussions here. Which would you consider best if you were in such a situation? Would you abandon your cause and join your enemy to preserve your own life? Would you yell "you'll never take me alive!" and die on your sword? Would you try to flee and survive? I would be interested to hear your opinions. :rollseyes:
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I don't believe in suicide cause it's not in my life's chart to take my own life. I do that, then I have to start this life over from the beginning--completely destroying whatever progress I've made up to this point. Fighting to the death on the other hand would be the better choice. At least that way I can go home.
Mark Anthony
Marcus Antonius actually. I'm not sure where Mark Antony came from but I'm assuming it is a liberty used by Shakespeare. Probably for romantic flare :P While Mark Antony is not incorrect, I'd rather speak his true Roman name: 'Marcus Antonius'.
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Interesting question. I don't think I'd take my own life, but then when it comes to the other choices I'm not sure...probably depends on some minor details. Join the other side? Maybe...what are the sides? Flee? Perhaps...where am I and how surrounded am I? I'd say, "I'm a lover, not a fighter," (which would be true) but I am also very analytical, so I'm sure I'd be thoroughly evaluating my situation before I made a decision.
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"Those who live by the sword, die by the sword."
In this context, I've always believed that they viewed suicide as the last resort to dying with your honor and title still intact. Being taken prisoner was one thing, but being pardoned by the person who you were ultimately out to kill likely was a humiliation. Suicide allowed you to die on your own terms. There was also the political factor, they can't interrogate you if you're dead.
Despite the goodwill shown by releasing your prisoners or giving them new purchase on life for defecting, it would seem to me that it was a simple matter of death over dishonor. Being captured showed that you were weak enough to be taken prisoner, and if you were tortured into talking or released from confinement you were humiliated even more. I don't know exactly how the Romans viewed suicide (whether it was a dishonorable death, or the coward's-way-out bullshit self-righteous assholes preach it to be nowadays), but regardless I think that taking one's own life was less dishonorable than allowing oneself to be captured, and thereby stripped of their warrior's pride.
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That would depend entirely on the context of the situation. Too many factors to say anything too concrete. I think it most situations I would try to flee.