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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Hardcore Gaming 101 => Topic started by: Super Waffle on December 28, 2014, 01:26:19 AM

Title: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Super Waffle on December 28, 2014, 01:26:19 AM
Mother Brain can control Metroids.  Is there a particular reason she has that ability?  Is she some sort of highly-evolved "super" Metroid (hurr durr) herself?  How does she relate to the Queen Metroid you run into in Metroid II?

Or was it just something Nintendo came up with to make Other M's plot work?
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 28, 2014, 01:44:38 AM
Mother Brain is basically an organic computer.
Metroids could've easily been implanted with chips for mind-control.  Or have been 'conditioned' since their spawning to perform certain tasks.

All of this technology is canon as per the Metroid Prime (see Metroid Prime Pirate Data logs) games and Metroid: Other M (spoilers for this game are abound if you search for info on this) .  Space Pirates have no qualms about experimenting on themselves with reverse-engineered or outright-stolen technology, for the sake of improving their mission effectiveness.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Super Waffle on December 28, 2014, 02:52:19 AM
Oh, ok.  This information should serve well in my fanfic in which gross things happen to Samus.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: X on December 28, 2014, 05:02:00 AM
Last I read it was Mother Brain's immense telepathic ability that enabled her to control not only Metroids but also the space pirate Zebisians and Key Hunters. Otherwise they'd go do their own thing. According to the Manga (though I've not read all of it and please correct me if I'm wrong here) The Chozo race built the Mother Brain bio-computer. They also as well created the Metroid species to be used against the X-Parasites.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Inccubus on December 28, 2014, 05:39:15 AM
That is pretty much my understanding. The Chozo then adopted Samus and trained her to basically clean up their mess.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Gunlord on December 28, 2014, 07:51:22 AM
Poor samus...;-; ;-; ;-;
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on December 28, 2014, 08:00:03 AM
This upcoming Waffle fanfic looks interesting.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Super Waffle on December 28, 2014, 08:16:13 AM
It's not "upcoming."  I already posted it.

http://chichichichipndale.deviantart.com/art/Metroid-Pirate-Booty-503099488 (http://chichichichipndale.deviantart.com/art/Metroid-Pirate-Booty-503099488)

And stop doing that, Gunlord.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on December 28, 2014, 08:48:08 AM
Nice. I've read it.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Super Waffle on December 28, 2014, 12:46:09 PM
And?  Did you think it was suitably canon?
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: X on December 28, 2014, 04:38:47 PM
This could definitely work for an alternate end and beginning of Samus. Impressive read Super Waffle. The only element I felt was out of place was the mentioning of royal jelly which most know comes from the Aliens Vs Predator novels. Otherwise a sort, but good read. Kinda makes me wonder what's going to happen next...
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 28, 2014, 06:14:06 PM
Indeed, the Chozo built the organic super-computer "Mother Brain", back when Planet Zebes was a habitable locale.
Then the Space Pirates stole/corrupted it, later on.

The Chozo created the life-form "Metroid" (its name means "Ultimate Warrior" in Chozo language) in order to fight a parasite species (X Parasites) which began to take over the planet SR-388.
(click to show/hide)
The Metroid did their task.
However, after Samus went to SR-388 to exterminate the entire species, and their Metroid predators gone, the X begin to repopulate.

It's possible that similar technology used for the creation of Mother Brain was used to create the Metroid life forms, since they both come from Chozo technology.


Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Super Waffle on December 28, 2014, 11:06:39 PM
Quote from: X on December 28, 2014, 04:38:47 PM
This could definitely work for an alternate end and beginning of Samus. Impressive read Super Waffle. The only element I felt was out of place was the mentioning of royal jelly which most know comes from the Aliens Vs Predator novels. Otherwise a sort, but good read. Kinda makes me wonder what's going to happen next...
During the part where the Space Pirates are analyzing Samus' biology, did you manage to figure out it was just the Pirates going "hurrrrrr how does Zero Suit work?" (they haven't been around many Earth girls) and it wasn't meant to imply Samus already had her freaky Metroid symbiote armor from Fusion?

One other guy from Hongfire misread that part and I wanted to see if it's a common problem.  I can always change it.

Quote from: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 28, 2014, 06:14:06 PM
(click to show/hide)
Well they were both from the 80s, so..
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: X on December 29, 2014, 06:59:32 AM
@Jorge:

Haha! nice  8)

@Super Waffle:

I don't know enough Metroid lore to give you an accurate reply on what is and what isn't canon about your story. I'm not sure if Space Pirates can even talk without the Mother Brain controlling them, however in the Prime trilogy they leave behind lots of date logs which would indicate they can communicate with each other in some form of vocal manner. But we don't hear any of that, especially in Other M. Just lots of screeches and roars. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about canon. What I've read seems to fit with no real problems. It's an alternate ending to the Metroid story. Not a happy one for Samus but entertaining none-the-less.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on December 29, 2014, 07:29:50 AM
@Waffle: I don't know much about the lore of Metroid. I just liked what you wrote.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: theANdROId on December 29, 2014, 01:53:55 PM
Well written!  One of these days I really need to get around to playing Other M.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: X on December 29, 2014, 04:16:32 PM
Give it a go theANdROId. The gameplay is much closer to the traditional Metroid games then the Prime series was. I thoroughly enjoyed playing it. The story however is very questionable and raises question about Yoshio Sakamoto's state of mind  :P, but don't let that stop you.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Super Waffle on December 29, 2014, 09:45:28 PM
I heard the actual gameplay for Other M wasn't that great either.  Like, it tries to do its own version of the Metroid Prime scanning thing, but it breaks everything that was fun about it.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 30, 2014, 01:25:58 AM
The gameplay is actually OK, but there are some things that made me question what the developers were thinking.

-Mid-exploration and with some attacks, everything is fine.  You run, jump, shoot, interact, everything's slick and great.  This is actually done really really well, even though you're running around in a 3D environment, it doesn't feel weird or anything.
-But then, for some reason they made it so that you ONLY use the Wii remote to move (no analog control, no extra buttons). Okay...
-and they made it so that you have to enter First-Person Mode by pointing the Wii remote at the screen in order to shoot missiles, and expose enemy weakpoints.  Essentially, that 'mode' feels like a different game, a 'crappy Metroid Prime', essentially.
-in this mode, since there aren't many buttons (Wii Remote Only), you have to do questionable things to dodge attacks.  I forget what the maneuver was (not sure if it was pressing the bottom B button, or shaking the remote) that you had to do to dodge.
-you also had an unlimited supply of missiles.  They handwaved it saying they were 'energy  missiles' so Samus's suit woud auto-recharge the gauge with time, but it feels weird to not collect missile  expansions in the same fashion as in other games.
-it's got a worse problem than Metroid Fusion when it comes to the whole "Wait Until Authorized" to use certain abilities Samus has already kept from previous games.  Some of these make sense (don't detonate a large PowerBomb in the ship as this is an area with scientists and navigation crew, etc. etc.  you're endangering lives blah blah blah)... while others make no sense whatsoever (why wouldn't Samus have the Varia suit or Gravity Suit turned on by default?  What harm is it doing?  Is it ripping a hole in the ship using gravity-defying powers?  They didn't even bother handwaving this one).

If they didn't do the first-person mode, it probably would have ameliorated the public's reception to the game.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: X on December 30, 2014, 06:20:52 AM
I haven't played the game in years now however in order to dodge (I still remember how to do it), the enemy must attack you. A physical attack or a weapons based attack, it doesn't matter. There is no special trick either. Essentially when you are just about to receive damage you have to maneuver out of the way. It's fairly automatic in execution so long as you input the command (jump button + D-pad direction desired) just as you are about to take damage and Samus will avoid the hit.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Inccubus on December 30, 2014, 11:40:59 AM
Hmmm... would be interesting to see someone try making a fan game version of Other M.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 30, 2014, 02:58:16 PM
Quote from: X on December 30, 2014, 06:20:52 AM
I haven't played the game in years now however in order to dodge (I still remember how to do it), the enemy must attack you. A physical attack or a weapons based attack, it doesn't matter. There is no special trick either. Essentially when you are just about to receive damage you have to maneuver out of the way. It's fairly automatic in execution so long as you input the command (jump button + D-pad direction desired) just as you are about to take damage and Samus will avoid the hit.

Right, that's what it was.
It was basically like the little 'lightning bolt' that happens when enemies are just about to attack Batman in the Arkham games or the Assassin in the Assassin's Creed games.  You see the attack being telegraphed, and you press a direction at that point.  It was easy, but cumbersome when in first-person view as your mindset is different than when in sidescrolling/roaming mode.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Super Waffle on December 30, 2014, 04:43:32 PM
Quote from: Inccubus on December 30, 2014, 11:40:59 AM
Hmmm... would be interesting to see someone try making a fan game version of Other M.
What if it were a parody of Other M?
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: X on December 30, 2014, 04:53:57 PM
Quote
Hmmm... would be interesting to see someone try making a fan game version of Other M.

I'd like to see this come to fruition! And maybe the fan game version would "correct" most if not all the damage that was done to Samus' character. That and changing up several things so the whole 'Baby' aspect isn't on forced upon you. And since there was a lot of harping in the original (mainly by Samus and Adam) have them cut out any and all unnecessary dialog that does nothing for the story, let alone fit the story. Other things like restoring the finding weapons and suit power-ups rather then have them authorized would work better too. And definitely get rid of the scene where Adam shoots Samus. That made no sense what-so-ever.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Inccubus on December 31, 2014, 07:52:35 AM
@X: Yeah, that's more or less what I was thinking.
One thing they easily could have done to rationalize certain aspects of her suit being disabled would be to have mentioned some technical problems related to suit maintenance or something like that.


Quote from: Super Waffle on December 30, 2014, 04:43:32 PM
What if it were a parody of Other M?

That could be really good if done right.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: X on December 31, 2014, 04:34:11 PM
The Prime series had good ideas for Samus losing her suit abilities. Team Ninja should have taken ques from them.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 31, 2014, 05:44:30 PM
I always thought she's sell 'em for money.  Bounty hunter and all.  Needs to pay bills.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: X on January 01, 2015, 12:13:18 AM
Quote
I always thought she's sell 'em for money.  Bounty hunter and all.  Needs to pay bills.

No need for that. She's a bounty hunter. Catching or killing bounties lands her the big bucks depending. And considering how good she is they'd pay her extremely well. I've always thought that when it comes to Chozo tech that Samus would consider it more personal since she has a connection with them and the Race in question. I'm not sure if she would be willing to sell off all that advanced tech to the Galactic Federation considering the lack of wisdom they have been showing in recent games such as Fusion and Other M. It would be very risky in the sense that it'd be like giving your kid a gun without teaching him about the responsibilities that come with it. However according to Other M the GF already has access to some of the Chozo tech such as power bombs, the plasma beam, and the Ice beam. Don't know about the other tech. And in terms of where she lived I had always thought she dwelt in her hunter ship. Kinda like Han Solo in the Millennium Falcon. Sure you'd want to rent a room somewhere on-world for a couple of days but your ship would be your home that goes wherever you go. Convenient.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Inccubus on January 02, 2015, 06:35:51 AM
And I just thought of this. You know how the suit actually LOOKS different in Other M? That would have gone perfectly with an explanation from Samus herself that she just finished reprogramming parts of the suit so some features are now incompatible until they get upgraded as well.
Damn! They missed a golden opportunity here to enrich the game play a bit. She is on an advanced research station, right? How about instead of removing almost all item pick ups, she has a list of things she needs to get to do the upgrades herself? Then they could have placed work stations all around the facility so that when you gather the right data and components the player could perform the upgrades themselves. More of a payoff for extensive exploration and maybe a better use for the "scan visor".

It would have given the whole fire tunnel sequence thing a very different flavor. They could have the situation happen the same without making Adam look like a callous asshole.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: X on January 02, 2015, 03:41:27 PM
They kinda did that in Metroid Fusion although not as extensive as what you've described. That idea sounds like fun actually, yeah they missed out on a golden opportunity. But I don't know how much more they could've squeezed into the game since the Wii doesn't have bluray.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Inccubus on January 04, 2015, 04:59:53 AM
The scrubbed disc image of Other M is only 7.26 GB, so they had over 1 GB more space to work with.
They definitely had the space for it. Time on the other hand...
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: X on January 04, 2015, 06:07:41 AM
Wow. They could have put more in there like variations on Samus' Varia and Gravity suits when she up-grades. But if it was an issue with time constraints then the game should have been held back so they could have polished it up more.
Title: Re: So in Metroid canon...
Post by: Inccubus on January 04, 2015, 03:29:15 PM
Well take my comment with a grain of salt. I don't know for a fact that they ran out of time.
AT the very least we can say for sure that they should have thought some things through a little better.