Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Crying Freeman on August 23, 2015, 06:29:39 PM
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SOTN is one of the only games I'd say is almost completely perfect! There a huge map to explore, tons of items, abilities, endings, satisfyingly addicting combat, and probably the best control of any 2D platformer ever made. It even has a really good story, as simple as it may be, simplicity is one of it's strong points (like we can feel Alucard's struggle through events we witness and some of his lines, instea dof him badgering on about "life sucks" and looking very brooding like other heroes). With everything it has to offer, there is only ONe major problem myself and I'm sure everyone else has with the game: The Inverted Castle.
It breaks the pacing of the game and takes it to a sloppy halt. Progressing through the inverted castle is irritating and can feel more like a chore than anything exciting. The word to describe the enemies here are CHEAP. Gremlins placed in front of entrances to rooms can mean knock back to the previous room if you're not prepared, the skeleton's projectiles bounce too far and for too long, and the beam skeletons... 1 or 2 hits can kill you, which really isn't fair! Sure, the boss fights are excellent, but you could've just placed them in the normal castle or in a newly designed map to complete after the original castle; their strength doesn't lie in the inverted castle itself.
It's sloppy, lazy, and for such a brilliant team, I can't believe they just inverted the map and made repetitive segments, overly annoying enemies, and annoying or confusing to get through areas. What should have been done is something similar to Aria; a new map with many ideas and parts of the original map but still a new map. Or if I remember correctly, Harmony of Dissonance had an entirely new castle to explore (been years since I beat that game).
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I think most people liked the Inverted Castle, actually. Yeah, some enemy placements were annoying, but IMO it was a nifty way of getting the player to reflect on the level design, navigating things differently when everything was upside down. The only other problem I had with it was too much reused music. x-x
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I think most people liked the Inverted Castle, actually. Yeah, some enemy placements were annoying, but IMO it was a nifty way of getting the player to reflect on the level design, navigating things differently when everything was upside down. The only other problem I had with it was too much reused music. x-x
Agreed.
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Fair enough, I see what you guys mean. I have to admit, I did reflect a bit on my previous encounters in the regular castle. I know I might be alone on this, but the inverted castle is just very frustrating personally.
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I personally did feel the inverted castle was a bit repetitive. They could have kept everything it offered, but it should have been done in a completely new castle to traverse through.
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Or if I remember correctly, Harmony of Dissonance had an entirely new castle to explore (been years since I beat that game).
Wasn't the second castle in Harmony of Dissonance just largely the same castle, just recolored?
Anyway, the Inverted Castle is largely the worst part of the game for me. I did like that it was open-ended, in that you can tackle the castle in whatever order you want to, but the level design felt extremely wonky upside down and just overall made exploring it more than annoying, ESPECIALLY when using Richter.
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I had no problem with the inverted castle other than what Gunlord said about the repetitive music.
I feel like the more difficult enemies that are "cheap" and their placement hearkens back to the early games where you have to be more cautious about how you played.
This lends itself to the idea that the inverted castle is more dangerous as you get closer to Dracula.
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I did think that the inverted castle was poorly-paced. The complete absence of any story beyond what you get at the very end coupled with the repetitive music and (imo) kind of lazy design once the novelty of the flipped castle wears off was a let-down for me. I don't actively dislike it but I do think it could have been done much better than it was.
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When I first played SotN, I was shocked with the inverted castle cuz everything was inverted and the enemies were hard. I did not dislike it though.
In hindsight upon knowing some behind the scenes stuff from IGA, I got to appreciate their effort in delivering a game that was behind schedule with only about 11 people working on it at maximum. At the start of the project there were only 4-5 people.
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I believe they ran out of time, therefore they couldn't add new content to the game and they had to figure something out to extend the playtime. This was around early 1997, so about 2 years of development time went into the regular castle. Taking that into account, could you really blame the game for this?
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I like the inverted castle personally, and likewise share the same opinons on it re: development issues.
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Annoying enemy placement is good enemy placement imo. Particularly in a game where in comparison from its predecessors the platforming was severely watered down.
I like the fact that the first castle had stairs and such on the ceiling and suspected there were areas which these would be useful. Although 'inversion' seems a cheap and easy fix, it still felt awesome especially the first time. Even the best things in this world have a budget.
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After the novelty of it wears off, it feels like what it is. A cheap way to extend the game. This is one of my problems with Iga. SOTN already borrows graphics from other games to begin with.
I understand having a small crew of 10. But there are game developers (even fan ones) who put out games with daunting amounts of quality artwork in the same time alone.
People are always so quick to give Iga excuses for his shortcomings. Why can't we at least entertain the idea that maybe they weren't as effiecent with their time as they could have been? Or maybe they just ran out of ideas. It's just as possible that it is the fault of the dev team as it is the fault of Konami's budget and deadline. It's the same story every time when someone points out a flaw in an Iga game. "Oh he had a small budget, oh he had an impractical deadline." It's bullshit IMO.
I would much rather have shorter game of higher quality. If I were Iga, I would have started the game off with a couple more linear levels in the mountains outside of Castlevania. Perhaps passing through a village where the townspeople fear Alucard.
Everything from entering the castle to it flipping over is a masterpiece in my opinion. But running through the woods for 2 seconds and instantly gaining access to the castle is ridiculous. Dracula has always had defensive forces in the countryside guarding his castle. Why are they suddenly absent in SOTN?
That would have been a been much better way to expand the game and give it a better sense of freedom and openness.
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After the novelty of it wears off, it feels like what it is. A cheap way to extend the game. This is one of my problems with Iga. SOTN already borrows graphics from other games to begin with.
I understand having a small crew of 10. But there are game developers (even fan ones) who put out games with daunting amounts of quality artwork in the same time alone.
I REALLY think that you don't know shit about what you're talking about. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Please, feel free to show us all these game developers/fan developers that make more polished games and with the same scope as SOTN in 2 FUCKING years.
I'll answer for you: You won't find it.
Then, you need to consider how TOXIC Konami working conditions are, considering the latest news about this problem, and you'll see they work REALLY hard. And even with those two years, they couldn't finish the entire game properly and decided to leave Debug menus and to lenghten the game like this.
Not even talking about the evolution of the frameworks and how much better for productivity they are today.
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It does! And it could be very true that the team ran out of $$ or time, but a problem is still a problem, and having a good excuse doesnt change bad to good, its just a good excuse. I still commend the team obviously for making one of the best games ever made, but it just goes to show that even the best things aren't perfect.
About the few linear levels idea, it would've been fantastic for adding to the narrative. I do like how the game just springs you in, but it does feel a little simple too. It works but more would've been more, and SOTN with even more content would be a dream! (One reason I prefer the Saturn version). But after the Richter Dracula fight, it can be argued that the player just wants to start the main gameand I guess the castle isn't guarded outside because Dracula isn't really back yet, who knows. Great idea I'd say though! 8)
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I REALLY think that you don't know shit about what you're talking about. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Please, feel free to show us all these game developers/fan developers that make more polished games and with the same scope as SOTN in 2 FUCKING years.
I'll answer for you: You won't find it.
Then, you need to consider how TOXIC Konami working conditions are, considering the latest news about this problem, and you'll see they work REALLY hard. And even with those two years, they couldn't finish the entire game properly and decided to leave Debug menus and to lenghten the game like this.
Not even talking about the evolution of the frameworks and how much better for productivity they are today.
I guess he means the indie games of today? Still, it is true that Konami treats their employees worse than sewer rats, and its f*cking disgusting what they do to their workforce (the cameras, lunch time calling out, GIVING A PROGRAMMER A JANITORIAL JOB). That being said, I hate complaining about a game from a Konami team, or any team that shows they put their heart and soul and passion into making an amazing product, but idk. I'm not saying anyone who developed the game was bad at their job (hell, look at the game they made), but I can't lie a out something I don't like because of this, its like censoring an opinion. I fully forgive them if the inverted castle was because of low budget and time constraints, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
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@Belmontoya The question isn't why wasn't SOTN's Castle guarded, it's why did Death Strip Alucard of his best weapons when he was at his weakest without wrapping the blade of his Scythe through Alucard's neck? Death could have stopped him right there but he effed up big time.
Why were there no forces? They were defeated in Rondo of course. The Castle appeared one night out of nowhere.
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Death's probably constrained by Dracula. If Dracula has mastery over Death, Death cannot acually risk killing Alucard himself, without inciting Dracula's wrath on him.
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Death's probably constrained by Dracula. If Dracula has mastery over Death, Death cannot acually risk killing Alucard himself, without inciting Dracula's wrath on him.
Then how come you fight death in the inverted Castle?
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I REALLY think that you don't know shit about what you're talking about. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Is it possible for you to disagree with me without being abrasive and insulting?
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Then how come you fight death in the inverted Castle?
My assumption would be that Death disarmed Alucard at Draculas request hoping he would leave and abandon his campaign. When Alucard did not, Dracula probably gave order to stop him whether by capture or death. That could be open for debate.
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Maybe the guarding forces were confused.
Wolfman: Wait, what are we doing again? Are we guarding Dracula's castle in the inverted forest, or that Richter guy's castle in the regular forest?
Skeleton: Peeping Eye said Drac told us to guard at the inverted forest.
Wolfman: Are you sure? Won't Alucard be coming from the other one? I thought the only way here as the portal behind the throne room where Richter is waiting?
Skeleton: Yes I'm sure! Guard the inverted forest! That's what P.E. heard!
Wolfman: He's a freaking eye with a tail! He doesn't have any ears! I don't think we should take his word.
Skeleton: Look, if you wanna face Drac's wrath, be my guest. I'm gonna stay here and guard the inverted forest.
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My assumption would be that Death disarmed Alucard at Draculas request hoping he would leave and abandon his campaign. When Alucard did not, Dracula probably gave order to stop him whether by capture or death. That could be open for debate.
This could be true as Death always acts in Dracula's best interests.
I would think he actually disarmed him because Alucard couldn't be dissuaded at Dracula's request. For some reason after this death retreats to the Inverted Castle where Alucard doesn't see him again until late in his quest.
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I guess he means the indie games of today? Still, it is true that Konami treats their employees worse than sewer rats, and its f*cking disgusting what they do to their workforce (the cameras, lunch time calling out, GIVING A PROGRAMMER A JANITORIAL JOB). That being said, I hate complaining about a game from a Konami team, or any team that shows they put their heart and soul and passion into making an amazing product, but idk. I'm not saying anyone who developed the game was bad at their job (hell, look at the game they made), but I can't lie a out something I don't like because of this, its like censoring an opinion. I fully forgive them if the inverted castle was because of low budget and time constraints, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
Even the indies of today are much smaller in scope than SOTN and they have much less raw content. They take much longer than the usual game by a publisher. Because they aren't constrained by them.
You don't have to like the solution they found to make the game bigger. Just that they weren't indie and they had actual time constraints/deadlines. And the game is still better than most games in the genre out there for many.
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Even the indies of today are much smaller in scope than SOTN and they have much less raw content. They take much longer than the usual game by a publisher. Because they aren't constrained by them.
You don't have to like the solution they found to make the game bigger. Just that they weren't indie and they had actual time constraints/deadlines. And the game is still better than most games in the genre out there for many.
Well put! Many indie games today are fantastic (just saw footage of a fan CV game, and it looked awesome), SOTN is SUCH a huge game, even AAA titles of today just don't have as much as SOTN did.
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I don't agree with any consensus that SOTN was unpolished or lacked enough content, particularly not when you look at SSOTN. However, it would have been nice if there were more tracks (although The Lost Painting is one of my favourite CV tracks of all time) and had they changed portions of the inverted castle's map to not be exactly the same - pixel for pixel - it would have been a nicer outcome imo.
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I don't agree with any consensus that SOTN was unpolished or lacked enough content, particularly not when you look at SSOTN. However, it would have been nice if there were more tracks (although The Lost Painting is one of my favourite CV tracks of all time) and had they changed portions of the inverted castle's map to not be exactly the same - pixel for pixel - it would have been a nicer outcome imo.
A lot of reviewers are calling SOTN out for being unpolished, like how you can just fly over enemies with the bat. I call bullshit on that: The game is built around using the new abilities to your advantage to reach new parts of the castle. I consider skipping enemies an example of this. You DO have to fight though so you can keep leveling and possibly pick up new items you need badly.
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A lot of reviewers are calling SOTN out for being unpolished, like how you can just fly over enemies with the bat. I call bullshit on that: The game is built around using the new abilities to your advantage to reach new parts of the castle. I consider skipping enemies an example of this. You DO have to fight though so you can keep leveling and possibly pick up new items you need badly.
Well it's the same reason there's the mist ability or gas cloud. You can go through enemies but it uses MP.
You also seem to have some invincible frames upon super jumping, which if they're going to nitpick is worse than the bat thing. The bat has been available since CV3 so I'm not really sure why it's an issue in SOTN, where platforming is much less heavy than it was in linear castlevania games. The bat ability was much cheaper/ handier in CV3 imo.
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Well it's the same reason there's the mist ability or gas cloud. You can go through enemies but it uses MP.
You also seem to have some invincible frames upon super jumping, which if they're going to nitpick is worse than the bat thing. The bat has been available since CV3 so I'm not really sure why it's an issue in SOTN, where platforming is much less heavy than it was in linear castlevania games. The bat ability was much cheaper/ handier in CV3 imo.
Agreed. Reviewers seem to be rather nitpicky lately (egoraptor on CV4 and OOT)
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Eh, kinda disagree.
The inverted castle isn't too bad. I think it's flaw was making that god awful noob of a weapon; Crissagrim.
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Eh, kinda disagree.
The inverted castle isn't too bad. I think it's flaw was making that god awful noob of a weapon; Crissagrim.
Crissaegrim you still have to grind in order to obtain, and that's one of the more difficult areas of the game (despite the game being relatively easy). There are more common noob weapons like the heaven sword which have a much farther range.
Either of these is no different to finding the Claim Solais in AOS. Overly poweful weapons (aside from the canon VK in POR) basically don't exist in any Metroidvania games outside of a handful of weapons which one has the option to equip any weapon or de-quip
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I feel that finding the Claim Solais in AoS is relatively easy compared to the grinding I have to do in the inverted castles' forbidden library just to get the Crissagrim. Those damned Shmoos just don't drop 'em fast enough for my liking. Then again neither do the giant skeletons easily give up those rings of Varda.
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I feel that finding the Claim Solais in AoS is relatively easy compared to the grinding I have to do in the inverted castles' forbidden library just to get the Crissagrim. Those damned Shmoos just don't drop 'em fast enough for my liking. Then again neither do the giant skeletons easily give up those rings of Varda.
Or the golden knights guarding the centre of the inverted castle who drop God's garb.
You need elements of luck to some extent in exploration based games.
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Or the golden knights guarding the centre of the inverted castle who drop God's garb.
You need elements of luck to some extent in exploration based games.
Right, forgot about those guys too.
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The problem I have with SotN is that common enemies are sometimes harder than the boss fights.
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The problem I have with SotN is that common enemies are sometimes harder than the boss fights.
It's also quite ironic that you can destroy the final boss but you can't destroy those rotating skulls
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Yeah that's a really good point haha
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It's also quite ironic that you can destroy the final boss but you can't destroy those rotating skulls
For the record, this is not the only case were a certain enemy is indestructible while the final boss was, like those fire breathing alien-like heads in Kujaku Ou 2 AKA Mystic Defender for Sega Genesis.
My guess is that when a final boss dies, indestructible enemies will die as well offscreen so in short the final boss are their main weakness:P
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For the record, this is not the only case were a certain enemy is indestructible while the final boss was, like those fire breathing alien-like heads in Kujaku Ou 2 AKA Mystic Defender for Sega Genesis.
My guess is that when a final boss dies, indestructible enemies will die as well offscreen so in short the final boss are their main weakness:P
Absolutely not the only time, I remember Mario 3 had those translucent energy balls which followed the perimeter of platforms on the (boom boom) castle stages. Even with a star you can't kill them. Rather perplexing.
As you say, you assume whatever powers the final boss is powering them.
But now I've found out Miyamoto has confirmed SMB3 was indeed a play, I don't know what the hell to believe!!! (Mindblown btw)
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I completely agree with the OP here. To me, the inverted castle just seems like a cheap way to extend the time you have to put in to complete the game. Sure the enemy placement is different and they added more gear to find, but I can't get over the fact that I'm just exploring the same exact map I'd already explored prior but now rotated vertically. On top of that, the fact that they repeat the same 2 or 3 songs throughout the entirety of it really started to test my patience.
Honestly, I kind of feel the same about the "extended maps" in the other IGAvania games. You know, the palette swapped stages using tilesets from other parts of the game? Never particularly liked those. In my opinion, it's also a glaring issue with Order of Ecclesia as half of the stages you explore recycle not only enemies but tilesets as well. I understand the developers have a finite amount of time and resources to complete the game and so they cut corners when they have to, I do. It doesn't kill the experience by any means at all but I do see it as a flaw, myself.
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@Dread POR Was much more guilty of reusing stages than OOE. They literally reused the same 4 portrait areas twice over. That feels cheap to me. At least OOE's stages were oriented differently, had different enemies and on the hardest mode (L1/ hard) actually involved platforming.
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...Mario 3 had those translucent energy balls which followed the perimeter of platforms on the (boom boom) castle stages. Even with a star you can't kill them...
If I recall, everything can be killed in Mario 3 with the Tanooki Suit. If you use its statue power and hit them just right, any enemy will die. Sometimes you go through...I guess you miss the hit box of something.
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If I recall, everything can be killed in Mario 3 with the Tanooki Suit. If you use its statue power and hit them just right, any enemy will die. Sometimes you go through...I guess you miss the hit box of something.
The statue move is used to avoid enemies not hit them, how do you hit an indestructible enemy?
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The statue move is used to avoid enemies not hit them, how do you hit an indestructible enemy?
You can attack enemies with the statue move if you use it midair.
Here is a list of what it can destroy:
http://www.mariowiki.com/Statue_Mario#Super_Mario_Bros._3 (http://www.mariowiki.com/Statue_Mario#Super_Mario_Bros._3)
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I was planning on making a separate thread but since we already have a thread about SotN's flaws I might as well bring it up here. Does anyone also think the Alchemy Laboratory is the worst area in the game? It has a lot of boring box-shaped rooms and lots of copy paste backgrounds which are pretty dull looking, especially the ones in the long vertical rooms with those floating flatform jumps. Also, they didn't really place any enemies there with an alchemy theme in mind which makes the area come more across as artificial. I think all the other areas are more varied in their design and less bloated.
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Yes, I at least am of like mind.
That area was just plain put to waste, I think. Not even a homonculus (aside from the barely-visible contained fetus things in the desk candles, and those hardly are worth noting) or transmutable metal-esque enemy, or even Bird of Hermes. Such a shame, considering the whole Dracula's organs thing is basically a biomagical transmutation. All that potential and room for symbolism, gone to waste.
As for the Inverted Castle...can't say it ever really bugged me. I didn't find it as engaging or riveting as the Regular, but never to the point of dislike. If anything, I think that can be blamed on the repetitive music (as stated several times), and the cooler tones for a lot of upper-castle areas (which is like half the map) which was equally overused IMO.
But at the same time, it IS meant to be the same layout but an entirely different beast, so things like the palette changes I can forgive, but things like the occasionally just uninspired enemy placement (HERE'S A LONG HALLWAY WITH A BUNCH OF WEREWOLVES AND RIGHT OVER THERE ANOTHER HALLWAY WITH A BUNCH OF MINOTAURS HOW EXHILARATING) I cannot.
I don't dislike it, but I also don't think Inverted can stand up to Regular (and rightfully so, because Inverted's not even standing it's bloody floating in magic cloud codswallop.
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SOTN already borrows graphics from other games to begin with.
Sorry if this is off-topic, but I'm curious if there's a list or a gallery explaining this? Just curious, as I don't have much Konami knowledge, and it sounds interesting to see which graphics have been inspired/borrowed by other games.
Unless you mean other Castlevania games... this much I know :)
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I was planning on making a separate thread but since we already have a thread about SotN's flaws I might as well bring it up here. Does anyone also think the Alchemy Laboratory is the worst area in the game? It has a lot of boring box-shaped rooms and lots of copy paste backgrounds which are pretty dull looking, especially the ones in the long vertical rooms with those floating flatform jumps. Also, they didn't really place any enemies there with an alchemy theme in mind which makes the area come more across as artificial. I think all the other areas are more varied in their design and less bloated.
The 'Entrance' (very first area of the castle) is a much better 'introduction' - shall we say - to SOTN. I agree that the inspiration seems lackluster for enemy placement. The music is more reminiscent of a dining hall or art hall. If anything I would say the Marble Gallery's music fits a laboratory better.
Alchemy Lab is sort of a nothing area to me, I hadn't even really thought about it until now but I agree it's one of my least favourite areas. I say that Underground Caverns, Royal Chapel, Coliseum and Clocktower are probably my favourite.
Also, props to SSOTN for having a much better Entrance theme for Maria.
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The alchemy laboratory is very much lacking in the whole 'lab' thing. It does have a lot of wasted background potential to showing all kinds of remarkable and impressive lab equipment that humanity does not have access to. There is also another matter that comes to my attention. The tower leading up to both the Castle library and the Clocktower. Has anyone ever noticed that it has the same music as the Marble Gallery, but just in a slightly different variation? These are the only two sections of the first castle to do this.
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It's also quite ironic that you can destroy the final boss but you can't destroy those rotating skulls
I always wondered why Drac never made gold-skull armor.
One of the few things I dislike about this game is that the Final Boss isn't the hardest boss fight in the game. Galamoth and Beezlebub are much harder.
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Such is the way of optional bosses.
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There is also another matter that comes to my attention. The tower leading up to both the Castle library and the Clocktower. Has anyone ever noticed that it has the same music as the Marble Gallery, but just in a slightly different variation? These are the only two sections of the first castle to do this.
That's right. I've always noticed that the Outer Wall's music mimics the Marble Gallery, it's just slowed down significantly and sounds nicer, suiting the area more imo.
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Sorry if this is off-topic, but I'm curious if there's a list or a gallery explaining this? Just curious, as I don't have much Konami knowledge, and it sounds interesting to see which graphics have been inspired/borrowed by other games.
Unless you mean other Castlevania games... this much I know :)
I believe he meant the borrowing of graphics from Rondo, i.e. expansions of the Skeleton Gunmen, a handful of other enemies, many of Richter's frames, Dracula's intro fight forms, Maria in the intro, several of the explosion graphics, etc.
Normally this would bug me, as it does in the DS titles, but considering Symphony is a direct sequel to Rondo, I consider it an appropriate borrowing.
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Well they ripped scv4 boss sprites as well. And Iga doesn't even consider it cannon.
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They did? Which ones?
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They did? Which ones?
Gaibon and Slogra. Though they did receive a considerable paint-job upgrade so the sprites could fit with the overall style.
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Well they ripped scv4 boss sprites as well. And Iga doesn't even consider it cannon.
Chronicles supersedes SCIV given that both are supposed to be remakes of CV1/ VK. This explains why in IGA's official timeline Chronicles artwork is referenced.
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It's not just Slogra and Gaibon that were incorporated. They also used some of the regular enemies as well. For instance; the headless pirates carrying their own heads that roam the long library. And you can also see the thorn weeds in the abandoned mine.
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Chronicles supersedes SCIV given that both are supposed to be remakes of CV1/ VK. This explains why in IGA's official timeline Chronicles artwork is referenced.
And why does Chronicles supersede SCV4? People can try to debate it all they want for fun, but come on.. Chronicles is not even close to as good of a game as SCV4. Chronicles has absolutely no business superseding SCV4. The very idea infuriates me.
No sprites from the world of Chronicles appear in SOTN. Yet, SCV4 characters are present. To take assets from SCV4, yet claim a painfully inferior game as the official cannon version of Simon's famous adventure is down right insulting.
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And why does Chronicles supersede SCV4?
Belmontoya, get off your high horse for a moment.
First I was referring to Chronology, meaning Chronicles supersedes SCVIV in the timeline
People can try to debate it all they want for fun, but come on..
Come on what? No one is debating anything.
Chronicles is not even close to as good of a game as SCV4.
Then I'd be the first person to tell you it is. Your opinion is your opinion, the community of Castlevania fans in general probably do prefer SCVIV, but what difference should this make to the minority who don't..?
Chronicles has absolutely no business superseding SCV4. The very idea infuriates me.
You sound a lot like a butthurt fanboy trying to defend something which you're afraid people will think is bad. I'm not surprised at you admitting to your fury.
No sprites from the world of Chronicles appear in SOTN. Yet, SCV4 characters are present.
So fucking what? So many CV games take sprites from other CV games. That's a weak argument.
To take assets from SCV4, yet claim a painfully inferior game as the official cannon version of Simon's famous adventure is down right insulting.
First of all, it is canon. There's an interview by Iga on the PSX disc stating it's a retelling of the original CV story.
Secondly, the official Iga timeline that came with POR shows Simon's CV Chronicles Arrange artwork, yet SCVIV is nowehere to be found, not as a retelling of CV1 nor as a sequel to Simon's Quest. http://nichegamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/timeline-side2.jpg (http://nichegamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/timeline-side2.jpg)
Finally, it's insulting to you, but get out of your own ego for a minute. People like games, people like SCVIV, but nobody cares if you like it aside from you. Your response is utter nonsense. You just love something so much you want it to be canon.
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No sprites from the world of Chronicles appear in SOTN. Yet, SCV4 characters are present.
Looking up the sprites for the blood skeletons and the panthers in both games. They seem to be almost the same sprites.
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No sprites from the world of Chronicles appear in SOTN. Yet, SCV4 characters are present. To take assets from SCV4, yet claim a painfully inferior game as the official cannon version of Simon's famous adventure is down right insulting.
There's Merman, blood skeletons, toad in SOTN are recycled sprites from Chronicles/X68000 for your information.
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Huh
Had a hunch the mermen were similar to the ones in Chronicles, but never knew they were actually edited sprites too.
Also, I wonder if there's any sprites reused from Bloodlines?
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Also, I wonder if there's any sprites reused from Bloodlines?
This, I've actually yet to encounter. And I've looked for them too.
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As someone who grew up with Bloodlines I've never seen or spotted any single sprite from that game in SOTN.
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I can't believe I never noticed chronicles sprites in it after all these years!
Sorry about that, I did get riled up. Getting overly passionate about scv4 is a thing I do. I should really watch that though. Sorry again!
@zangetsu
Chronicles is one of my favorites. True that I don't think it compares to scv4 at all, but I respect your opinion. Sorry dude. It had nothing to do with ego or a high horse, I'm embarrassed it came off that way.
I'm just extremely passionate about the game I love.
I was very bothered by the timeline. But it's time I got over that.
Sorry guys I'll try harder to stop being a dick about scv4. ????
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Oh yeah I was pretty sure SotN had something from the X68000 episode! Thanks for the examples guys.
I think an obvious reason why IGA is attached to Chronicles is because... he was the producer? Frankly, I love the original X68000 episode, and it's great that it was emulated on the PS and made available to the rest of the world, but that arrange thing they "worked on" is 99.9% useless. The 0.1% useful is the brand new soundtrack, and I think only a minority of us enjoy the techno atmosphere in it (I do, but I admit it doesn't fit Castlevania very much).
Does anybody remember a super in-depth article about HoD, I think it was a post in the Chapel of Resonance, which someone linked to here. If the author of the article could do the same thing for other episodes, I'd be such a happy man. I'd even send him some money :) It could make a wonderful analysis of the graphics in SotN.
And since I feel I've derouted this thread, to answer the original question : The biggest flaw of SotN for me is the lack of general challenge - the game gets too easy at some point, after which you're basically running around the castle not giving a cr*p about anybody, just trying to get those rare item drops before moving onto a more challenging game. In comparison, CotM manages to keep some areas very challenging, even after you're done with the whole game and after getting all the best items and equipment.
Some may argue again that this is due to lack of time and other constraints, so yeah, whatever. I can't say I enjoy SotN a lot. In fact I get bored very quickly. A game like SCVIV though, I can play through every year and it still manages to be amazing every time. I'm still not convinced SotN is such a wonderful game. CV64 will always be my all-time favourite Castlevania and game 8)
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@zangetsu
Chronicles is one of my favorites. True that I don't think it compares to scv4 at all, but I respect your opinion. Sorry dude. It had nothing to do with ego or a high horse, I'm embarrassed it came off that way.
I'm just extremely passionate about the game I love.
I was very bothered by the timeline. But it's time I got over that.
Sorry guys I'll try harder to stop being a dick about scv4. ????
Don't stress Belmontoya, we're all entitled to our opinions. Such is the beauty of free will and diversity :)
I realise Iga's official timeline is what it is, but my point with Chronicles was that it was the most recent canon remake of CV1.
Personally I believe that given Simon's Quest's best ending that SCVIV may very well be a sequel to it. It's obviously not acknowledged by Iga (nor intended, since HoD infers Simon's Quest was the last time Dracula resurrected, albeit incompletely) but I also don't know if it's ever been retconned by him.
I can understand, one of my favourite games, Dracula XX/ Vampire's Kiss doesn't even happen on the main timeline, I place it on the 'alternate' timeline with the CV64 series, Haunted Castle, Legends and so forth. My second theory is that it is a tangent sprouting off of the main timeline. The timeline can superseded a game, but a game will always exist regardless of the timeline. 8)
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Sorry guys I'll try harder to stop being a dick about scv4. ????
Don't stress Belmontoya, we're all entitled to our opinions. Such is the beauty of free will and diversity :)
i was kinda hoping you 2 would go back n forth for a few more pages, dissecting each others posts in segments whilst pointing out flaws in ur logic, sly insults being tossed 2 the point where reading the response effects ur off-internet life & u cant focus on school/work cuz of what that jerk said on the forum last nite after u already logged off n went to bed, on-lookers chiming in while another telling u to agree or shut up, inevitably escalating 2 the point where Nagumo and/or Shiroi would step in & lock the thread with disappointing look in their eyes, only for the rivalry to fester & be continued some other time. like the good ol days
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The Inverted Castle tends to feel like a big, empty warehouse that somebody dumped a bunch of clowns and noise makers into. That's not exactly my problem with it though, since despite that, the whole experience feels wonderfully surreal. My real issue is THE MUSIIIIC. I do appreciate the random super creepy songs in one area, like in the floating catacombs and the inverted arena, and Lost Painting is a classic. But listening to Finale Toccata area after area on my first time through the game gave me a literal headache that did not go away for days.
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i was kinda hoping you 2 would go back n forth for a few more pages, dissecting each others posts in segments whilst pointing out flaws in ur logic, sly insults being tossed 2 the point where reading the response effects ur off-internet life & u cant focus on school/work cuz of what that jerk said on the forum last nite after u already logged off n went to bed, on-lookers chiming in while another telling u to agree or shut up, inevitably escalating 2 the point where Nagumo and/or Shiroi would step in & lock the thread with disappointing look in their eyes, only for the rivalry to fester & be continued some other time. like the good ol days
That's eerily specific :P
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I didn't so much like the Inverted Castle the first couple times I played SoTN, but after awhile it grew on me. The fact that it's upside down presents its own unique challenges, especially when rooms have high or irregularly shaped ceilings. That alone can make for a challenging run through a room if the enemy placement is just right. It makes platforming a completely different game, and also challenges your magic meter conservation because you'll have to be using Bat or Mist Form a good bit more. So in all, I don't dislike it as much as I used to. I think HoD made the best use of the copypasta castle, what with Castle B being like a Silent Hill Otherworld version of the main castle, which was cool. But IC is what it is in SoTN and presents its own set of challenges which I grew to appreciate.
RE: Alchemy Lab, I like the area, but I agree that there isn't much that's lab-like about it other than the occasional burner or the room where you break the test tubes to get all the items. Castlevania hasn't ever really done well with lab settings that I can remember, which is too bad because there's so much potential there.
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Castlevania hasn't ever really done well with lab settings that I can remember, which is too bad because there's so much potential there.
The best use of the lab setting I can remember in Castlevania was in Chronicles/X68000 level 7, where you had the Creature rise up after some lightning, as well as some fetus-in-jars pop out of their jars and throw what I assume are blood disks. Then again, that's not saying much since the level was a mix of dungeon, lab and art gallery; the lab part had to share airtime with the other level tropes.
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The best use of the lab setting I can remember in Castlevania was in Chronicles/X68000 level 7, where you had the Creature rise up after some lightning, as well as some fetus-in-jars pop out of their jars and throw what I assume are blood disks. Then again, that's not saying much since the level was a mix of dungeon, lab and art gallery; the lab part had to share airtime with the other level tropes.
That stage was in the original CV before the fight with death. You can even see the machine where the creature came alive.