Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Vickter on October 05, 2015, 02:49:35 AM
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I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about what you would like to see in a modern Classicvania-type game. Are there post-SOTN ideas that you would like to see mixed in, something in the NES trilogy you would want to leave out? I know there are a few of you that are passionate about this subject, so please be as detailed as you like. Any input or discussion is welcome.
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Absolutely nothing brought over from LoS. The only thing worth preserving would be the graphical quality. That's it!
The return of multi-directional whip attacking. The only game to feature that was SCV4. Both Bloodlines and Chronicles had some but they did not go with the full 8 directions that made SCV4 so versatile.
Bring back the stairs as well as rope-climbing from the Gameboy titles. Both of these simple game mechanics added a kind of unique depth to the series as well as challenges. But since SotN Stair-climbing was almost non-existent save for their final appearance in Adventure Rebirth.
CV should also forgo the heavily romanticized Gothic tone that was prevalent throughout the IGAvania's and instead go back to the classic campy Halloween theme that made the series so popular to begin with. The Halloween theme can still be done and done very well.
Also we need more variety in terms of protagonists. New Belmonts would be more then welcome. Ones that we've never heard of before. Also it would be a good thing to introduce some women Belmonts to the stage as well. Not just try to bring back Sonia, but introduce a whole slew of others with their own themes and looks. Even better would be to have a character select menu where you can choose to be either a male or female Belmont, and you could even give them their own personal looks and first names. This will add more replay to the game and also give the player a more personal connection with the characters they have created as well. It will also quell the sexual inequality that has been unfortunately prevalent throughout the series.
Bring back the double and triple shot icons. I miss those :'( They were simple yet added their own depth to the series. getting a sub-weapon always made me want to collect the shot icons as I knew having them could mean the difference between life and death depending.
In terms of the sub-weapons I vote for a much stronger Dagger. The dagger has always been the weakest weapon in the series so I think it's time to bring it back with a bit of extra kick. Kinda like the silver knife or even the golden knife from Simon's Quest.
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CV should also forgo the heavily romanticized Gothic tone that was prevalent throughout the IGAvania's and instead go back to the classic campy Halloween theme that made the series so popular to begin with. The Halloween theme can still be done and done very well.
This is what I want most...everything else is secondary. But not in an overtly goofy way...like how WayForward did Double Dragon Neon, for example. (Loved that game, but it just wasn't Double Dragon.)
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X , I couldn't agree with you more.
Mig and I are working on Lecarde Chronicles 2 which is open world like SOTN.
But we also have an original game called Wallachia in the works that has all of the features you've listed and more. The look is very different from CV and chain whip or flail upgrading is more gradual for balance. There are also improved and different sub weapons.
The game follows the real history of Vlad the Impaler. A group of Assassins are hired by a mysterious employer to rid the world of Dracula once and for all. The game has no supernatural enemies, but glorified ancient weaponry.
We won't be talking about it much until after Lecarde Chronicles 2 is released. But it doesn't hurt to let people know that it exists.
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The "Fake Dracula/Dracula Impostor" concept form CV64 is so great. Or like "Sorry but the big evil is in another castle!" That would be awesome
If the gameplay is that a special weapon can only use one per time, then a special weapon storage case like contra 3/4 will be great as players can store 2 or more special weapons in classic style gameplay. Or ARPG-style changeable abilities in a big box that can be opened by pausing game
The upgraded throwing axe sub weapon in Harmony of Despair is very cool because there will be more axes that can be launched per time. Such as other sub weapons.
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One thing I forgot to mention in my first post~Dracula. Enough with the wannabes. No Mathias, no Gabriel, no f**king emos, Just good ole Vlad III the impaler. The true Dracula.
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Here's an idea, just make one! ;D
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Mig and I are working on Lecarde Chronicles 2...but we also have an original game called Wallachia in the works that has all of the features you've listed and more.
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We won't be talking about it much until after Lecarde Chronicles 2 is released. But it doesn't hurt to let people know that it exists.
This sounds amazing and I look forward to hearing and seeing more about it!
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Stage based Mini-metroidvania in which all upgrades and secrets can be found in that one containing area, the next stage will incorporate the last stage's upgrade(s) into it's level design, kind of like OoE except bigger maps and no turning back in a straight-foreword playthrough
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Here's an idea, just make one! ;D
I wish! I really, REALLY wish I could make my own CV game. But my mind is not logic-oriented so coding is out of the question. I've tried and failed so many times it's just stupid. And it boggles my mind every time I sit down and look at videogame code. How does it work? What's the correct input for movements and such? I cannot for the life of me figure it out. Even trying to learn through things like game maker has proven to be another brick wall. Sure it has visuals which makes it easier, however my thought process is not what I can utilize through game maker, sad to say. Maybe down the road some will get it together and make a program similar to RPGMaker 2000 that will allow the individual in question to make a CV game the way--people like me--want to.
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X, I've also tried and failed a lot over the past few years. I do get a little better every time, but it really is a slow kind of progress. A project I'm working on right now is to try and replicate the physics of CV3 and then replace them with original artwork, levels, characters, story, and enemies. Right now I'm having problems with collision detection, though. The key to learning programming is to find the right framework to use. I like using Unity and C# as a scripting language. You should watch some videos about 2d programming in Unity, it's not easy at all, but there's lots of documentation available.
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It's simple, kill the Batma...I mean...take what SCIV did and bring it up to date. :)
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Style:
Original Gothic approach, barbaric and realistic heroes, a simple plot involving a lot of soul to it (in CV4 I always imagined Simon as a who was doomed to do this but knew he had to, kind of like dealing with inner demons despite not being that kind of person at heart, reading too much into it? Lol) plus a more atmospheric soundtrack akin to CV4, 64 and COTM.
Gameplay:
If 2d:
Multi directional whip, but to keep it from being to overpowered, leave out power ups and have the hero stick with the leather whip the whole game, with sub weapons having more reach and power, giving then a better purpose than in CV4.
Multiple routes, but instead of the fork in the road deal CV3 had after stages, make it like Rondo where you opened secret paths to beat the level in a different route, but make it feel a little more natural.
If 3d:
64 with an updated combat system. Then things I didn't dig about LOD, LOI, COD and the LOS games were the overt the top anime and lord of the rings type fighting in their combat systems. 64 was like the old games: here you are, here's your weapon, may find extras, good luck and survive. The rest of the 3d games don't have that, and its such a series of missed opportunities. Level based but make the levels open ended for completion, something the 3D games did right. Also do multiple routes the same way mentioned above, like Rondo's. Make it more like finding the paths instead of destroying walls to find them, cus that'd look goofy in 3d.
And for both, please bring back the old school cinema feel the games all had in the background rather than super bombastic like modern cv
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Multi directional whip, but to keep it from being to overpowered, leave out power ups and have the hero stick with the leather whip the whole game,
I can agree with keeping it from being too overpowered, however not having it as a chain whip with a morning star at the end would take away from the whip being the vampirekiller we all know in the first place.
That's just me though. I'm a stickler for tradition :)
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I can agree with keeping it from being too overpowered, however not having it as a chain whip with a morning star at the end would take away from the whip being the vampirekiller we all know in the first place.
That's just me though. I'm a stickler for tradition :)
Just implement a harder difficulty where the power ups extend the whip and alter its state into a morning star while only doing the same damage of the leather whip.
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Stage based Mini-metroidvania in which all upgrades and secrets can be found in that one containing area, the next stage will incorporate the last stage's upgrade(s) into it's level design, kind of like OoE except bigger maps and no turning back in a straight-foreword playthrough
I think that this would be pretty neat. I always though Vampire Killer was a great start to an idea like this.
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They want to make a Metroid like Castlevania?
Fine. Let's make a Metroid like Castlevania.
No item shops, no leveling up, no 1,000 item inventories. Your character is going though this alone. No romantic interesting tagging along., no comic relief sidekicks. You can count your total number of weapons and items on your fingers. You gain extra health by finding certain items hidden thought out the level.
In fact, let's not even give you free access to the castle. I never got that. Dracula knows your in his castle, so he's just going to let you wander around as long as you like?
Not this time. You're coming in through the labyrinthine catacombs and caves UNDER the castle. You don't find your way into the main castle itself until at the every end.
and if you finish the game quick enough, you get to see Simon Belmont in a bikini! .... wait. No. let's forget that last one.
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and if you finish the game quick enough, you get to see Simon Belmont in a bikini! .... wait. No. let's forget that last one.
That's female fan service right there :o
*whisper* Don't let Shiroi find out about that ;D
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I can agree with keeping it from being too overpowered, however not having it as a chain whip with a morning star at the end would take away from the whip being the vampirekiller we all know in the first place.
That's just me though. I'm a stickler for tradition :)
Well yeah it'd be a morning star, I just had the originals on the mind.
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Just implement a harder difficulty where the power ups extend the whip and alter its state into a morning star while only doing the same damage of the leather whip.
That's the way to do it. CV4 is a lot more fun on harder difficulties because the game is so easy on normal that it's kinda mind numbing, but more options for the players are always better.
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That's female fan service right there :o
*whisper* Don't let Shiroi find out about that ;D
Simon Belmont from Captain N XD
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and if you finish the game quick enough, you get to see Simon Belmont in a bikini! .... wait. No. let's forget that last one.
That part should definitely be left in - equal opportunity fan service!
The rest of your ideas are also good :D
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That's female fan service right there :o
*whisper* Don't let Shiroi find out about that ;D
With you guys quoting it over and over, I'm bound to find it. ;D gimme gimme... hahahahaha
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Simon Belmont from Captain N XD
I actually liked that version of Simon. He's not exactly accurate, but he was a fun character.
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...and if you finish the game quick enough, you get to see Simon Belmont in a bikini! .... wait. No. let's forget that last one.
We already have that, though. Just look at that Fake Trevor sprite everybody loves to use. He literally shows more leg and thigh than the succubus. :-\
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I actually liked that version of Simon. He's not exactly accurate, but he was a fun character.
Two reasons I like him:
- He dresses like Cid from FFVII
- He reminds me partly of Stan from American Dad.
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Two reasons I like him:
- He dresses like Cid from FFVII
- He reminds me partly of Stan from American Dad.
Never drew that Stan conneciton, but wow he does ;D
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Never drew that Stan conneciton, but wow he does ;D
Loves himself, obsessed with being beautiful/ self image, loves a bad pun (like "Secret Asians"), insecure as a schoolgirl and ....
The golorious CHIN!!!
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I just don't feel the whole 8 direction whipping. It's a whip, not a sword. Just using a wip accurately straight ahead is hard enough. Accurate 8way whipping is just nonsense. I would say at best it should have a wider attack area in front. Instead of a 4 pixel hitbox, it should have a 16 pixel hitbox from arm to floor.
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I just don't feel the whole 8 direction whipping. It's a whip, not a sword. Just using a wip accurately straight ahead is hard enough. Accurate 8way whipping is just nonsense.
As much as I like the straight no bs whipping, there are many things about Castlevania that are nonsense. For one, why on Earth Dracula has an array of fantastical monsters from every different mythology localised entirely within his castle which can manifest at any given moment after crumbling.
Back to the whipping, anyone who has used a whip, lassoo etc in real life will know that the way the Belmonts (and Morrises) wield their Vampire Killer is not typical. One does not generally hit targets on pin point with a whip, in realtime you'd be more likely to take out a heap of lesser enemies with one attack. But this is what makes the Belmonts so damn special, they have this ability and this is partly why the chosen descendants of the Belmont lineage undergo such training.
End of the day, multidirectional whipping is to give the player more control of the protagonist, it was never about being realistic. Speaking of swords, it's not realistic for Soma to swing the Claimh Solais over his head consistently (in combo chains) without injuring his body. It's also not realistic to wake up in an eclipse, but here we are.
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As much as I like the straight no bs whipping, there are many things about Castlevania that are nonsense. For one, why on Earth Dracula has an array of fantastical monsters from every different mythology localised entirely within his castle which can manifest at any given moment after crumbling.
Back to the whipping, anyone who has used a whip, lassoo etc in real life will know that the way the Belmonts (and Morrises) wield their Vampire Killer is not typical. One does not generally hit targets on pin point with a whip, in realtime you'd be more likely to take out a heap of lesser enemies with one attack. But this is what makes the Belmonts so damn special, they have this ability and this is partly why the chosen descendants of the Belmont lineage undergo such training.
End of the day, multidirectional whipping is to give the player more control of the protagonist, it was never about being realistic. Speaking of swords, it's not realistic for Soma to swing the Claimh Solais over his head consistently (in combo chains) without injuring his body. It's also not realistic to wake up in an eclipse, but here we are.
Yeah, CV isn't exactly about realism. About the whip, I love it, but the whip itself should be toned down in power to balance the extremely easy control of it. That's CV4's main criticism: The whip is OP.
Its a fantastic addition, but needs to be balanced out, like short whip with leather whip power, sub weapons' longer reach and morning star-like damage make them more relevant while not taking away from using the whip at all.
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I have no patience for those who gripe about the 8-way whipping. It was a debut mechanic. Egoraptors YouTube vid on this is pure garbage.
That was the best mechanic added to CV IMO. It should have been the new model.
Instead we got being able to whip diagonal down and down mid air only in bloodlines. Wtf
Then we got fucking backflips with rondo. Wtf
And then we never got a decent classicvania ever again. And our future was stuck with heroes who apparently have no ability to raise their arms above their shoulders.
Makes perfect sense.
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I have no patience for those who gripe about the 8-way whipping. It was a debut mechanic. Egoraptors YouTube vid on this is pure garbage.
That was the best mechanic added to CV IMO. It should have been the new model.
Instead we got being able to whip diagonal down and down mid air only in bloodlines. Wtf
Then we got fucking backflips with rondo. Wtf
And then we never got a decent classicvania ever again. And our future was stuck with heroes who apparently have no ability to raise their arms above their shoulders.
Makes perfect sense.
I feel your frustration. Egoraptor seemed to ignore the fact that CV4 wouldnt be CV4 if it didn't have the 8 way whip, and while he said he didn't think it was a bad game, he sure made it sound like a shitty game. I know it's subjective whether someone likes or dislikes it, but common, Egoraptor can't sit there and say it's a problem to the extent he said. Sure, it's over the top comedy, but I'm not talking about that side of it.
I mean he made the game sound like a complete fail because it was the only thing he focused on in the entire video. He's right, the 8 way whip defeats the purpose of using sub weapons in a CV1 or 3 way, but it can help you clear enemies faster, which is something he did ignore. If you have the cross, it will anihilate everything. Knives are a bit faster and good in some places. Axes are good with a triple shot.
I'll also say, one bit of footage he showed to prove his point, the one with the holy water on the mudmen, he was whipping straight................. does he know thats not the same as up or diagonal up? That mudman would be toast against CV1-2 Simon or Trevor LOL
I don't mean to go off topic, but another thing he said in that sequelitis that had me scratching my head was the bit where he says the devs should've focused on more whip mechanics. Sure, the only one they really implemented was the bat ring swing (had to make that rhyme ;D), but one animation he showed had Simon on a moving batring, which YOU DO later in the game! Only difference is you're not moving up and down from spikey wall hazards... But wait, if I remember correctly he said he hadn't beaten the game and in the GameGrumps run he never got past stage, so he wouldn't know that a part like that existed in the game. Then another, if you're good enough you can reach those secret areas in stage 9 with the whip ring-jump to ring bits (and it's mandatory at the quickgold part (quicksand gold??).
I think sequelitis videos are EXTREMELY well made, but the way he nitpicks can get on my nerves. The entertainment and enjoyment I get from them outweighs those bits, but like in OOT, he criticised the linearity of ALTTP and OOT, and while I'm no Zelda fan (how dare me), I don't see how thats such a gamebreaker. It's still open world, your tasks are just laid out linearly. I'm not saying the guy can't have an opinion cus everyone obviously can, but it's SOOOOO nitpicky. Doesn't he realize they're trying to tell a bigger story? Of course they're gonna have some linearity in the game.
Last thing I'll say, he and many others criticize CV2 for SUPER cryptic shit, but it's OK in Zelda 1?? Sure, CV2 had it to REDICULOUS proportions, but Zelda 1 was pretty fucking hard to find my way around in. I needed a walkthrough multiple times for that game, and I HATE the control! Is it OK to be the only person who doesn't like Zelda 1?... :-X Lol I'm starting to sound like him... Imma mr. hypocrisy over here
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The only sequelitis of Egoraptor's I enjoyed watching, and which was very informative and funny at the same time was CV1 Vs CV 2. That was the only one worth watching and he brought out lots of interesting points (both good and bad things about CV2). He has not done a well-reviewed sequelitis since that time so it is what I consider a one-hit wonder.
8-directional whipping was a new mechanic--first, and only introduced in SCV4. We never saw it again. Both CV X68000 (Chronicles) and CV Bloodlines had multi-directional attacking with the whip but both were limited variations. Was the whip overpowered in SCV4? Not really for me as I had a tough time playing through the game when it was new at the time. A weapon can be overpowered but the game itself can still give you grief with other things like stage layouts, traps, etc. What good is an overpowered weapon if you get caught in a trap? Or an enemy takes you out from a perilous point in a stage and knocks you into a pit? SCV4 worked for what it was and it was new step for the franchise at the time. But with all that it is, I would not change a single thing in that game, even now.
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@Freeman To be fair Zelda 1's cryptic shit made more sense. You also didn't also have to go into the pause screen to equip special items for them to take effect if this applies.
Example: Impa says "go north, west, south, west"
The lost woods are right there so in context yes it makes more sense than say cv2's
"A crooked trader is offering bum deals.." Or "Stay back!!"
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The only sequelitis of Egoraptor's I enjoyed watching, and which was very informative and funny at the same time was CV1 Vs CV 2. That was the only one worth watching and he brought out lots of interesting points (both good and bad things about CV2). He has not done a well-reviewed sequelitis since that time so it is what I consider a one-hit wonder.
8-directional whipping was a new mechanic--first, and only introduced in SCV4. We never saw it again. Both CV X68000 (Chronicles) and CV Bloodlines had multi-directional attacking with the whip but both were limited variations. Was the whip overpowered in SCV4? Not really for me as I had a tough time playing through the game when it was new at the time. A weapon can be overpowered but the game itself can still give you grief with other things like stage layouts, traps, etc. What good is an overpowered weapon if you get caught in a trap? Or an enemy takes you out from a perilous point in a stage and knocks you into a pit? SCV4 worked for what it was and it was new step for the franchise at the time. But with all that it is, I would not change a single thing in that game, even now.
Working for what it is is how I describe CV4. I understand why x68000 and Bloodlines removed it, but its such a fun and useful mechanic. Plus it would've made sense in Bloodlines since the whip is really short anyway.
And you mention the traps, which would catch almost anyone on their first try, by getting knocked back or not jumping in time. It's still a challenging game, and like I said, he couldn't get past stage 8, ironically because of the traps at the end. He couldn't figure out you could crouchwall under the spikes. And you mentioned newcomers: I got my ass handed to me a lot when I was younger, but it wasn't so ridiculous that I couldn't beat it, which is one of the great things about CV4; the difficulty feels fair and balanced in a way different from CV1
I forgot to mention that the subweapons help quite a bit on harder loops. My only real gripe with the game was the hit detection when it comes to hitting multiple things;
Throw an axe, falls into 2 bats, only one gets killed. Throw one up to hit a far away enemy, if it hits a candle then it won't register hitting that enemy. It gets REALLY annoying in tight spot, especially if you like to speed through the game and use the sub weapons to help with that.
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@Freeman To be fair Zelda 1's cryptic shit made more sense. You also didn't also have to go into the pause screen to equip special items for them to take effect if this applies.
Example: Impa says "go north, west, south, west"
The lost woods are right there so in context yes it makes more sense than say cv2's
"A crooked trader is offering bum deals.." Or "Stay back!!"
Yeah, there's no hiding that CV2 is easily one of the most cryptic games ever made. REALLY needed true in game clues, which Zelda does have.
I admit Zelda 1 isnt near the most cryptic game, but I did personally have some trouble. Plus I hate the clunky control over link in that one. It is a REALLY fun game to play with Zelda fans, though.
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I'd love a Classicvania prequel to Circle of the Moon surrounding Morris Baldwin's initial slaying of Dracula.
I think it would be pretty awesomely meta to have the "old" slaying in Classicvania style, and then Nathan Graves, the "successor", in COTM is faster, more agile, and energetic in his gameplay style.
Also, that alternate timeline seems like it had some neat promise that never got borne out-- a world completely without Alucard or the Belmonts is worth exploring. Maybe it's more crapsack than the "usual" Castlevania as the heroes are even more helpless against Dracula with the exception of the occasional Hail Mary that happens to work out.
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I'd love a Classicvania prequel to Circle of the Moon surrounding Morris Baldwin's initial slaying of Dracula.
I think it would be pretty awesomely meta to have the "old" slaying in Classicvania style, and then Nathan Graves, the "successor", in COTM is faster, more agile, and energetic in his gameplay style.
Also, that alternate timeline seems like it had some neat promise that never got borne out-- a world completely without Alucard or the Belmonts is worth exploring. Maybe it's more crapsack than the "usual" Castlevania as the heroes are even more helpless against Dracula with the exception of the occasional Hail Mary that happens to work out.
Why don't we have this?? That'd be fucking awesome! When I was younger I thought COTM might've been a sequel cus if Morris's past slaying of Drac. I did confuse my cus all I knew at the time were Simon and Reinhardt lol.
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I'd love a Classicvania prequel to Circle of the Moon surrounding Morris Baldwin's initial slaying of Dracula.
Don't forget that Nathan's parents were there as well. I think exploring more of CotM would be interesting and help to scratch that CV itch.
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Don't forget that Nathan's parents were there as well. I think exploring more of CotM would be interesting and help to scratch that CV itch.
Hmmmm. I can see a good fanfic out of this. Maybe Hugh and Nathan being left behind while Morris and the Graves parents fight off Drac
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Loves himself, obsessed with being beautiful/ self image, loves a bad pun (like "Secret Asians"), insecure as a schoolgirl and ....
The golorious CHIN!!!
This summer... Bruce Campbell IS Simon Belmont!
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This summer... Bruce Campbell IS Simon Belmont!
I would pay good money to see a B-Movie Castlevania adaptation starring Bruce Campbell.
Make it something in line with the tone of the Evil Dead films, and we'd be looking at a golden thing.
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Last thing I'll say, he and many others criticize CV2 for SUPER cryptic shit, but it's OK in Zelda 1??
No. That's why I've never really every played much of it to this day. In fact, I would argue that Zelda 1 is more cryptic in general since there are basically no clues at all. CV2 is a slightly different beast because of the purposefully misleading NPCs which is only compounded by the mostly garbage translation.
About the 8-way whip.
What some of you guys don't seem to remember was that the problem with it was a combination of it letting you attack more freely and the fact that the much larger Simon sprite gives you mad reach.
I was one of the people that played the game from day 1, and almost never needed to use sub-weapons at all. I never used the knife at all because it's speed is not much better than the whip and it's damage output is inferior with a diminished relevance for it's reach. I used the cross just because I liked it in general since CV1 and could execute multiple hits per use at the same damage level as the whip.
Egoraptor was right that they didn't balance the game to compensate for the greater power the player now had.
I do like the solution of simply reducing the whip's damage, but I also think that the sub weapons could be made more useful and versatile.
Whip: The simplest fix after a damage reduction is to scale Simon's sprite back down to a more reasonable size along the lines of Richter.
Knife: make it much faster and make it 8-way, too. Maybe even make it rapid fire by default and the shot power ups increase it to 4 & 6 shots.
Axe: Give it a variable arch. Holding up will make it go even higher, but less forward range. Holding down gives you a lower height bit it goes much farther. And just for fun charge it to use it like short range boomerang like in Vampire Killer.
Cross: No change needed really. It's already pretty powerful.
Holy Water: Make the flame a larger and last longer. Hold up to throw it farther. And make the vial shatter on contact with enemies causing a mid-air fireball instead of going through them. Hold down to roll it along the floor where it'll be able to go through small spaces and it will spontaneously explode at a fixed distance if it doesn't collide with anything.
Stop Watch: Allow it to slow down most earlier bosses. Double and Triple Shot extend it's duration instead of basically just making it easier for you to waste hearts.
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No. That's why I've never really every played much of it to this day. In fact, I would argue that Zelda 1 is more cryptic in general since there are basically no clues at all. CV2 is a slightly different beast because of the purposefully misleading NPCs which is only compounded by the mostly garbage translation.
About the 8-way whip.
What some of you guys don't seem to remember was that the problem with it was a combination of it letting you attack more freely and the fact that the much larger Simon sprite gives you mad reach.
I was one of the people that played the game from day 1, and almost never needed to use sub-weapons at all. I never used the knife at all because it's speed is not much better than the whip and it's damage output is inferior with a diminished relevance for it's reach. I used the cross just because I liked it in general since CV1 and could execute multiple hits per use at the same damage level as the whip.
Egoraptor was right that they didn't balance the game to compensate for the greater power the player now had.
I do like the solution of simply reducing the whip's damage, but I also think that the sub weapons could be made more useful and versatile.
Whip: The simplest fix after a damage reduction is to scale Simon's sprite back down to a more reasonable size along the lines of Richter.
Knife: make it much faster and make it 8-way, too. Maybe even make it rapid fire by default and the shot power ups increase it to 4 & 6 shots.
Axe: Give it a variable arch. Holding up will make it go even higher, but less forward range. Holding down gives you a lower height bit it goes much farther. And just for fun charge it to use it like short range boomerang like in Vampire Killer.
Cross: No change needed really. It's already pretty powerful.
Holy Water: Make the flame a larger and last longer. Hold up to throw it farther. And make the vial shatter on contact with enemies causing a mid-air fireball instead of going through them. Hold down to roll it along the floor where it'll be able to go through small spaces and it will spontaneously explode at a fixed distance if it doesn't collide with anything.
Stop Watch: Allow it to slow down most earlier bosses. Double and Triple Shot extend it's duration instead of basically just making it easier for you to waste hearts.
Glad to see another non-Zelda 1 fan. Back to discussion, he is right, as much as we don't like to hear it. I played back in the early 2000s but SNES was all I really played, and yes, since I started I've never used the sub weapons a lot. I only used them when I thought I was smart using them XD.
Your ideas for the different sub weapons I think are fantastic! I never really found Simons sprite super large compared to Richeter personally (in Dracula X I recall it being the same or similar size, haven't played Rondo as much so I assume it's a smaller sprite in Rondo). I can see a combination of what HoDespear and classicvania did: have bits of normal CV zoom in, but them have the stages zoom in or out in certain situations. Could be good if done right, but it'd be easier sticking to the original view.
I remember a fan game I was excited as hell for called Castlevania 4 Reborn, but the project seems like it won't see the light of day. I read a thread of it in here, too. I liked what I saw, even with its issues, I thought it'd be a great game. I especially loved the soundtrack, which the composer put up for streaming on SoundCloud, and I highly recommend it, its fantastic!
https://m.soundcloud.com/search?q=super%20castlevania%204%20reborn
(https://m.soundcloud.com/search?q=super%20castlevania%204%20reborn)
I could see your ideas for the subweapons working in that game, as the scale of the levels seems much bigger in general, and Simon's size in the game can work.
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The simplest fix after a damage reduction is to scale Simon's sprite back down to a more reasonable size along the lines of Richter.
I doubt this would work as Simon's CV4 sprite is only 2 pixels over Richter's. There's not a whole lot of height difference in that regard. However in a different thread where we were all talking about the length of the VK. Doppelganger Trevor has the longest VK in the series and it even overshoots CV4's VK whip. So in this case the changing or adjusting of sprites probably won't make a difference.
(http://new-1.png)
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Say, how do you guys think Bloodlines compares with SCIV when it comes to multi-directional attacks?
I recall that since Morris couldn't attack upwards with the whip on the ground (and since the jump mechanics were like the NES games), the axe was somewhat viable when you're stuck on the ground. I can't say much about Lecarde since I didn't play as him much :/
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Say, how do you guys think Bloodlines compares with SCIV when it comes to multi-directional attacks?
I recall that since Morris couldn't attack upwards with the whip on the ground (and since the jump mechanics were like the NES games), the axe was somewhat viable when you're stuck on the ground. I can't say much about Lecarde since I didn't play as him much :/
Bloodlines probably had the best balance of control-power-usefulness between whip and subweapons that I can recall. Chronicles/X68000 kind of nerfed the striking power of the whip, making multidirectional attacks kind of pointless if you have enough hearts and a decent (read: non dagger) subweapon.
Post Symphony games simply let you twirl or flail the whip, but it did almost no damage and was pretty much just a defensive tactic.
Bloodlines also let you use the whip to swing across almost any gap if you had a nearby ceiling to stick it to, instead of at defined points like Super and Lords of Shadow.
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I recall that since Morris couldn't attack upwards with the whip on the ground (and since the jump mechanics were like the NES games), the axe was somewhat viable when you're stuck on the ground.
Eh, so-so. Morris can attack upwards but only at 45 degree angles. This also allows him to latch onto any ceiling/platform and whip-swing his way across pits.
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Say, how do you guys think Bloodlines compares with SCIV when it comes to multi-directional attacks?
I recall that since Morris couldn't attack upwards with the whip on the ground (and since the jump mechanics were like the NES games), the axe was somewhat viable when you're stuck on the ground. I can't say much about Lecarde since I didn't play as him much :/
I know its not bad, but I have a hard time getting used to it cus I'm not a big Bloodlines player. The whips length staying short is a nice touch I think, making you use far reaching subweapons a lot.
It's helpful in many areas, and the swinging is really fun to use once you get used to it. Something else I liked about the whip in Bloodlines was how you could hold the attack button down and John would keep the whip out for an extra second, doing double damage with one swing.
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Something else I liked about the whip in Bloodlines was how you could hold the attack button down and John would keep the whip out for an extra second, doing double damage with one swing.
Right! Forgot about that. It was very handy when you wanted to get in that extra hit before retreating from an enemy attack.
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I got Bloodlines the day it came out.
I was beyond excited.
I loved the goriness and the extra player.
But I also remember feeling that everything was inferior to CV4. The mechanics, the graphics, the music. Everything.
While I love it, I still feel that same way about it. They should have made the whip mechanic as identical to CV4 as they could.
Instead we got a system that feels unfinished, with illogical limitations.
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It's helpful in many areas, and the swinging is really fun to use once you get used to it. Something else I liked about the whip in Bloodlines was how you could hold the attack button down and John would keep the whip out for an extra second, doing double damage with one swing.
The Alucard Spear does the same thing in that game. I'm probably one of the few people that liked playing Bloodline with Eric more than with John.
I doubt this would work as Simon's CV4 sprite is only 2 pixels over Richter's. There's not a whole lot of height difference in that regard. However in a different thread where we were all talking about the length of the VK. Doppelganger Trevor has the longest VK in the series and it even overshoots CV4's VK whip. So in this case the changing or adjusting of sprites probably won't make a difference.
(http://new-1.png)
My mistake. I remembered there being a bigger difference.
So a more proper contrast would be with the original NES games. Compare the length of the whip in CV1, SCV4, CVDXX.
SCV4 has a Vampire Killer that is 1.5x longer than CV1, but the screen resolution is the same.
Add to that the fact that you can cover 8x more area at will and that greatly reduces the usefulness of the sub-weapons.
This is the reason why in the other games that came out after, that had similar sized sprites, also had reduced versatility for the whip.
Eventually, you get to Rondo which has a somewhat shorter whip and a single attack direction.
PS- Added a pic of Bloodlines, too.
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I don't agree with the useless sub weapon gripe.
subweapons are not useless in CV4. They are improved with their own dedicated button allowing for better use on stairs and the ability to throw them crouched. It's funny how people forget about that.
On top of that they are easily upgraded with the double and triple shots making them absolutely useful.
The knife and holy water are about as useless as they've always been. So there's no real grounds for gripes there.
The game is solid. It's different, and better for it.
Bloodlines graphics are clunky and less refined. Just look at Johnathan. His sprites are the ugliest I've seen on a CV protagonist. The music sound quality falls short of CV4, as well as the compositions IMO.
And as far as environments and scenarios, CV4 blows it away. Functioning draw bridges, rotating rooms, massive boss fights, portraits that come alive and grab your hand as you pass, swinging chandeliers, a ghost who cries over his lost pet... This is just the tip of the ice berg.
I will forever be perplexed by the idea of putting Bloodlins above SCV4.
I love Bloodlines to death as well. Play it all the time. But to me it's seemed of lower quality compared to SCV4 from day 1.
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I've always treated Bloodlines the same way I will Lords of Shadow, as side stories or alternate universe canon. Same with Portrait of Ruin. That said, Bloodlines is a FANTASTIC game, I've always loved the feel of the controls in the game, but SCIV will always be king in my eyes in every single way.
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For Bloodlines, it is fantastic, but I never really play it. Hell, I've played The Adventure more than it (not saying adventure is better ;D, far from it). The controls are tight and responsive as hell, but there's something about moving John and Eric that I don't like. I can't place my finger on it, but their walking and jumps, plus their sprites seem a bit spastic. Plus, John's tiny head in proportion to the gigantic fucking arms always bugged me and seems goofy, but thats just me. I also didn't like how the whip was slower while crouched, which is more realistic, but again that's just me.
I still have an absolute blast playing, and I get used to the above issues rather quickly, but that might be one reason I don't play it as much. With the adventure I guess it's so simple and barebones I put up with its MUCH more flawed design (one reason I like Valis 1 for Genesis).
Another thing I absolutely dig in Bloodlines is its focus on horror and gore. Rondo, Dawn and PoR pissed me off (judgement was at least a spinoff) in that they ditched the horror and Gothic nature. I can't stand the overt anime style in them (In a bit of a hypocrite here cus I like the style in Legends, it I guess because it reminds me more of Manwha than Manga or Anime, plus the lack of cutscenes makes you forget about its artstyle a bit). Bloodlines did carry on the fantastic attention to detail in its horror set pieces, such as the leadup to the boss of the Verseilles Palace, which was fucking awesome!
Besides that I HATE the tricky bits, like the multiple broken off layers part in the final stage.
I think I need to play Bloodlines more to get a better feel for it, And hopefully change my mind on the issues I mentioned above. Besides that, it does have one of my favorite CV songs, Iron Blue Intention.
Last thing I'll say: CV4 may seem like an extra step in a sequel sense of us because of the name, but it IS a remaketo the Japanese audience, and just called Akumajo Dracula again. Sure, later games do take ideas from CV4, like Slogra and Gaiben, the whip twirling, the swinging, and attacking in multiple direction in a more restricted sense, but perhaps the game doesn't seem like such a big deal to the country who produced the games for ages, because it's essentially the same idea as Akumajo Dracula X68000/Chronicles, which nobody makes a big deal about in terms of fanfare (even tho we all agree its a fantastic game) and references are limited to a few enemies and sprites for later games. Maybe what I'm saying is it doesn't stand out as much to the Japanese, because there are so many Akumajo Draculas with the same story. It won't stand out as much as Akumajo Densetsu or Vampire Killer. And the games sales, which I've heard on wikipedia so take that with a grain of salt, were only modest. But marketing it as a sequel was a better move for US and PAL regions.
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sry delete plz :-[
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I don't agree with the useless sub weapon gripe.
subweapons are not useless in CV4. They are improved with their own dedicated button allowing for better use on stairs and the ability to throw them crouched. It's funny how people forget about that.
On top of that they are easily upgraded with the double and triple shots making them absolutely useful.
The knife and holy water are about as useless as they've always been. So there's no real grounds for gripes there.
The game is solid. It's different, and better for it.
I've never forgotten about the dedicated button for the sub-weapons SCV4, but that is a feature that really doesn't do much for the effectiveness of the sub-weapons.
Yes, it makes them more convenient to use, but the 8-way whip makes the whip way more effective as a main weapon.
Couple this with the fact you can now reach almost half the screen at will with minimal aiming on the player's part and it greatly diminishes the utility of the sub-weapons all of which are nearly identical to their 8-bat counterparts.
The fact that they are not really different in the face of the vastly improved whip is more than enough grounds to criticize this aspect of the game.
I personally didn't find the sub-weapons useful in the same way as in earlier games. And it wasn't for lack of trying.
Don't get me wrong, I love SCV4 and is my favorite remake of CV1. But it does have it's flaws.
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I've never forgotten about the dedicated button for the sub-weapons SCV4, but that is a feature that really doesn't do much for the effectiveness of the sub-weapons.
Yes, it makes them more convenient to use, but the 8-way whip makes the whip way more effective as a main weapon.
Couple this with the fact you can now reach almost half the screen at will with minimal aiming on the player's part and it greatly diminishes the utility of the sub-weapons all of which are nearly identical to their 8-bat counterparts.
The fact that they are not really different in the face of the vastly improved whip is more than enough grounds to criticize this aspect of the game.
I personally didn't find the sub-weapons useful in the same way as in earlier games. And it wasn't for lack of trying.
Don't get me wrong, I love SCV4 and is my favorite remake of CV1. But it does have it's flaws.
It's different, not a flaw. That's what I take issue with.
The sub-weapons are treated differently. They are not always necessary, but often useful. And as I said above, and you admitted, they are improved on as well. The dedicated sub weapon button made a huge difference to me.
SCV4 is an easier game to get into, and it's made to be that way. There's nothing wrong with that, and it's certainly not a flaw as most complaints about the series before it were that the difficulty was too high. It's a logical progression.
Not only does the improved whipping make it easier, but also does the other improved mechanics, like the sub-weapons, jumping on and off stairs, and the crouch walking. These were all new things in SCV4 and things my child self jumped up and down about when the game came out. But again, no one ever mentions those features when talking about why the game is easier to play.
What do players considered balanced? The over the top difficulty of most other classicvanias? Or the easier leveling up style metroidvanias? Personally I think SCV4 offers the perfect difficulty level for most players. It seems to me to be just the right porridge.
Pointing out that the whip is longer in SCV4 versus past CV's doesn't mean that the game is out of whack and balance. All it means is that the whip is longer and the game is slightly less difficult in some situations. There is nothing deductive about that.
I'll say it again. It's a bogus gripe that's been perpetuated by a bogus youtube video.
To get back on track..
Wouldn't it be marvelous to see an open world Castlevania built on the SCV4 engine? Yes. It would probably be the best thing ever.
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Just as a sidebar on what Belmontoya has stated. If SCIV is so popular, why has Konami not capitalised on its success the same way Nintendo has with ALBW? Somethings not right... That something is Konami.
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It's different, not a flaw. That's what I take issue with.
The sub-weapons are treated differently. They are not always necessary, but often useful. And as I said above, and you admitted, they are improved on as well. The dedicated sub weapon button made a huge difference to me.
SCV4 is an easier game to get into, and it's made to be that way. There's nothing wrong with that, and it's certainly not a flaw as most complaints about the series before it were that the difficulty was too high. It's a logical progression.
Not only does the improved whipping make it easier, but also does the other improved mechanics, like the sub-weapons, jumping on and off stairs, and the crouch walking. These were all new things in SCV4 and things my child self jumped up and down about when the game came out. But again, no one ever mentions those features when talking about why the game is easier to play.
What do players considered balanced? The over the top difficulty of most other classicvanias? Or the easier leveling up style metroidvanias? Personally I think SCV4 offers the perfect difficulty level for most players. It seems to me to be just the right porridge.
Pointing out that the whip is longer in SCV4 versus past CV's doesn't mean that the game is out of whack and balance. All it means is that the whip is longer and the game is slightly less difficult in some situations. There is nothing deductive about that.
I'll say it again. It's a bogus gripe that's been perpetuated by a bogus youtube video.
To get back on track..
Wouldn't it be marvelous to see an open world Castlevania built on the SCV4 engine? Yes. It would probably be the best thing ever.
I have to disagree. The disparity between the improvements to the whip in contrast to the minimal changes to the sub-weapons is a flaw in that it diminishes their purpose. Thankfully, this is only one of a very few flaws the game has. However, it is also the biggest one from a design perspective.
Now, I never said that the 8-way whip was a flaw in and of itself, and I certainly never thought it was. It's the difference in the level of improvements that I see as a flaw. In it's simplest terms the whip is more fun, but the sub-weapons are not more fun. The whip steals a lot of the sub-weapons' thunder.
I've never spoken to the difficulty of SCV4. I honestly never really thought about the difficulty of the game when I was a kid. I never felt it was too easy, but then again I never felt that the earlier games were too hard either. I wouldn't even remotely consider the classicvanias to have over-the-top difficulty. I reserve that distinction for Ninja Gaiden, Abodox and Astyanax.
I do clearly remember that I used the sub-weapons much less frequently because I never needed to, unlike the earlier games.
CV1 & CV3 have candles that are out of reach vertically, for example. This basically doesn't happen in SCV4 where the whip can nearly reach the top of the play area (aka not including the HUD) from the very bottom of the screen at the height of a jump. What use is the axe, really, when nothing is ever legitimately out of reach?
The stopwatch and cross are the only ones that have any utility at all, but again that is diminished by the fact that you can hit most things from 1/3rd of a screen length away. And projectiles are a joke because you can leave the whip limp and basically create a shield around Simon that can destroy them all on contact.
Ask yourself this; is there any situation in SCV4 that you can't easily overcome with the whip alone? Is there any situation in that game that requires a sub-weapon to overcome? For me the answer is no. And that is what I consider a design flaw. The new whip mechanics render the sub-weapons nearly useless and the improvements to them are more for convenience than increased utility.
I will point out now, that I never said the game was unbalanced.
Nor have any of my arguments been taken from any youtube video, though Egoraptor did make me think deeper upon my own observations and experiences.
And getting back on the track you started, as long as the game used a larger resolution, I think an open world SCV4 would rock.
I envision something like a CV2 style world with more deliberate level design populated with varied enemies and props.
That would be fantastic.
Just as a sidebar on what Belmontoya has stated. If SCIV is so popular, why has Konami capitalised on its success the same way Nintendo has with ALBW? Somethings not right... That something is Konami.
As much as bashing Konami is fun and well deserved, I can only think that the logical answer is that either a significant number of people complained that the game was too easy or the sales figures showed it wasn't as well received as we core fans would like to believe.
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Let's get to a point in which none of the Castlevania games have EVER tackled fully.
The Vampire Killer is a Whip, and if you've done a little research on whips you'll find that these weapons are a pinnacle of versatility, why not just keep the whip leather for long range bursts and the handle can be used as a close range heavy bash? Why not allow the player to disarm and steal enemy weapons?
And with that, versatile sub weapons could come to mind, allow the player to swing that axe before chucking it, or allow 8-direction knife throwing to snipe those hard to reach fast moving enemies beforehand, stuff like that is how Classicvania can modernize; expanding on the foundation in ways that really haven't been done before.
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Let's get to a point in which none of the Castlevania games have EVER tackled fully.
The Vampire Killer is a Whip, and if you've done a little research on whips you'll find that these weapons are a pinnacle of versatility, why not just keep the whip leather for long range bursts and the handle can be used as a close range heavy bash? Why not allow the player to disarm and steal enemy weapons?
And with that, versatile sub weapons could come to mind, allow the player to swing that axe before chucking it, or allow 8-direction knife throwing to snipe those hard to reach fast moving enemies beforehand, stuff like that is how Classicvania can modernize; expanding on the foundation in ways that really haven't been done before.
That just sounds way to complex for classicvania. Imo this is what was done in the LOS series, while it works for a 3D Castlevania, it fairs horribly on a 2d/ 2.5d environment (MoF)
I would like to see the subweapons have a secondary function (not simply an item crush) which could be evolved somewhat along the lines of the player's firepower in Gradius. (a Konami title afterall)
I do actually like the idea of 'swinging the axe' if it's anything like Shanoa's glyph union axe swings then fuck yes!
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I always thought that it never made sense that the Belmonts were often depicted carrying swords or daggers, but never used them in any of the games.
But, the idea of using the handle for a short range bash attack would be a viable alternative for sure.
Brings to mind the spike powerup the combat cross gets.
Stealing enemy weapons is a fun idea too. I liked that you could basically do that in Wind Waker. I hated that you couldn't keep them for later use.
The improved versatility of sub-weapons reminds a bit of similar discussions I've heard about the Robot Master weapons in some of the Megaman games being useless and needing more utility and versatility.
Megaman 9 in particular does a great job of introducing greater versatility to new iterations of old weapons. The best example being the Jewel Satellite which very elegantly gave the upteenth iteration of the shield weapon the ability to not block projectile, but rather reflect them back at enemies as an attack.
With that in mind, the throwing knife, for example, could have the secondary effect of being able to be used as a temporary foothold when embedded in walls. The caveat would be that they break if you stand on them too long and get dislodged immediately after you jump off of them.
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With that in mind, the throwing knife, for example, could have the secondary effect of being able to be used as a temporary foothold when embedded in walls. The caveat would be that they break if you stand on them too long and get dislodged immediately after you jump off of them.
I remember playing a game a while back that had this exact same mechanic. Shame I don't remember the title... :-\
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I think it would be cool to see subweapons used as stronger short range attacks, or projectiles.
A subweapons attack would be shorter range than the shortest whip and .5 stronger.
Mig and I have a nicely refined 8-way whipping system in our game, Wallachia. It requires more upgrades to get to full size. A full length whip would be earned over a level or 2. Not given away in the first screens of every stage. The full length also features a saw tip that can be spun at a cost and keeps the whip extended.
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I always thought that it never made sense that the Belmonts were often depicted carrying swords or daggers, but never used them in any of the games.
CV64/ LOD would like a word. There's a dedicated attack button for the sword. A pity it's only really used for cutting candles when you're standing too close and deals less damage than the player's primary weapon. (even Cornell had this dedicated Secondary attack)
Technically Richter's sprite from SOTN onward also does use the sword re: his Down, Up + Attach move which does a superjump. In the mainf frames of the animation you see him thrusting a sword upwards.
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Technically Richter's sprite from SOTN onward also does use the sword re: his Down, Up + Attach move which does a superjump. In the mainf frames of the animation you see him thrusting a sword upwards.
I always thought that was his whip. But I suppose it could be his dagger, except for the handle of the dagger being too long in the sprite image.
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I always thought that was his whip. But I suppose it could be his dagger, except for the handle of the dagger being too long in the sprite image.
Actually on re-inspection I think it is the VK.
N64 games only then.
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That just sounds way to complex for classicvania. Imo this is what was done in the LOS series, while it works for a 3D Castlevania, it fairs horribly on a 2d/ 2.5d environment (MoF)
I would like to see the subweapons have a secondary function (not simply an item crush) which could be evolved somewhat along the lines of the player's firepower in Gradius. (a Konami title afterall)
I do actually like the idea of 'swinging the axe' if it's anything like Shanoa's glyph union axe swings then fuck yes!
Not too complex since Megaman Zero Did it already with the Z-Knuckle.
Let's use examples instead of description, Classicvania has always been about precise platforming and Enemy pattern memorization, Let's just give an extra element to make it more interesting.
Belmont is in a room with axe armors, traditionally you'd dodge and whip the projectiles to defeat them, the whip can grab and disarm enemies by nature of the true weapon.
New scenario, Axe Armor chucks axes, belmont can grab a thrown axe and send it right back to him either causing damage or simply blocking the next thrown axe.
This is also a logical way of cycling non-whip weapons since Belmont can "borrow" an enemy's weapon to perhaps have an advantage on the upcoming boss.
Essentially it's just Z-Knuckle, but with some practicality, Disarming an enemy with precise timing is what the whip does, why not Finally implement that? in turn for balance, enemies can be programmed with more tricks up their sleeves to keep the player thinking on their feet.
As for Bashing, it's optional, it'll work better for a LoS game, but it's still there to put on the table.
Basically the goal of every game is to add something interesting to an already set formula
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Kazudra, in short I think some of your ideas are interesting. but using the whip purely for disarming and killing them with their own weapons again sounds like LOS more so like MoF to me. If this was the whip in Zelda SS then yes, if it were a secondary weapon I'd agree, but the VK has been the Belmonts' primary weapon since Leon, I think it should remain the main weapon not the secondary weapon.
If new game mechanics are added like having to destroy a knight's shield with a subweapon prior to using the whip, thiss would make more sense to me.
Remember the gauntlet in LOI? they should add a 'parry' technique where the protagonist can deflect enemy attacks and send projectiles back at them. This would assist with adding more depth to the gameplay without negating the use of the whip, and would make the player think about defending while in offense. Now I know LOI and LOS used this, but fuck the screen slowdown and 30 hit combo systems of the past. The new CV should have short, opportune moments to deal much damage.
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Not purely for disarming, just add to the VK's Functionality, Kinda like HD's Julius where he has a devoted Button to swing on rings, just allowing that fuction some interaction on enemies as well, Just an idea that may implement more weapons without a massive collection and menu time.
Sub-weapon versatility can also substitute from full-on stealing weapons, Can use the Sub as a main weapon as well as traditional throwing, also has potential of making the II and III blocks more seeked out as the III can turn your knife into a sword or give the axe more area, only problem is that the Cross, Holy water, and Stop-watch have no other uses than throwing, maybe the Cross can be a shield and the Holy water can splash around you like CoD Trevor.
Honestly, the best idea of a modern classicvania would be Harmony of Despair since it's a mix between both new and old, but it does have to be modified a bit to be more enjoyed for what it is rather than Dracula sluaghterfest for those winged boots, still fun, but in a different way.
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Honestly, the best idea of a modern classicvania would be Harmony of Despair since it's a mix between both new and old, but it does have to be modified a bit to be more enjoyed for what it is rather than Dracula sluaghterfest for those winged boots, still fun, but in a different way.
If that's the best idea for a modern CV game then we're in trouble.
The bottom of the CV barrel isn't exactly the best place to look for modern ideas.
A modern CV could be classicvania, it could be metriodvania, it could be a hybrid.
I believe the CV formulas of the past are still relevant today. Konami just needs to make something that uses the strengths of the past with a fresh new look, perhaps hand drawn (not 3D). Great eerie music, a whip wielding Belmont, and Dracula.
We don't need a forced online multiplayer. There are other great games that fill that void. Castlevania needs to do what Castlevania was born to do. Be a great single player adventure that challeneges you, enchants you, and gives you chills.
The simpler the better. Just a reboot of CV1. Ya know, what fucking LOS should have been.
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The simpler the better.
Maybe we can get an Akumajou Dracula Peke remake or sequel for the 30th anniversary. (It would be better than what we got for the 25th)
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As much as bashing Konami is fun and well deserved, I can only think that the logical answer is that either a significant number of people complained that the game was too easy or the sales figures showed it wasn't as well received as we core fans would like to believe.
If only internal company sales figures were released to the public. If anything they should be when you're paying for the rights to a game.
Anyway from its history I would say it's the latter. We got no CV games since OOE then suddenly LOS becomes a blockbuster, it's ridden out until the series doesn't sell as well as they'd hoped. I'm certain if LOS2 outsold the first, Konami would have continued a spin off franchise which adopted similar gameplay mechanics from the LOS series. Also CV pachinko seems like a cash grab.
Maybe we can get an Akumajou Dracula Peke remake or sequel for the 30th anniversary. (It would be better than what we got for the 25th)
After what they did to Kojima who was one of their best employees in flesh and blood, I'm almost certain they won't take issue letting a fictional franchise rot. Albeit their own creation. #fuckonami
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If that's the best idea for a modern CV game then we're in trouble.
The bottom of the CV barrel isn't exactly the best place to look for modern ideas.
A modern CV could be classicvania, it could be metriodvania, it could be a hybrid.
I believe the CV formulas of the past are still relevant today. Konami just needs to make something that uses the strengths of the past with a fresh new look, perhaps hand drawn (not 3D). Great eerie music, a whip wielding Belmont, and Dracula.
We don't need a forced online multiplayer. There are other great games that fill that void. Castlevania needs to do what Castlevania was born to do. Be a great single player adventure that challeneges you, enchants you, and gives you chills.
The simpler the better. Just a reboot of CV1. Ya know, what fucking LOS should have been.
But Cv1 has been rebooted sooo many times...
Then again, we could always just make a CV game with 32-bit aesthetics, but with a modern widescreen and Traditional NES scaling, which is what most devs forget in time that scale has ALOT to do with a game, then just combine the great ideas from the 3 most innovative CV titles of all time, that is Rondo, Bloodlines, and Super CV4.
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But Cv1 has been rebooted sooo many times...
Then again, we could always just make a CV game with 32-bit aesthetics, but with a modern widescreen and Traditional NES scaling, which is what most devs forget in time that scale has ALOT to do with a game, then just combine the great ideas from the 3 most innovative CV titles of all time, that is Rondo, Bloodlines, and Super CV4.
We need this! A game as big as SOTN looks that good, so imagine the detail and work put into a less complex package? It has the potential to be the best looking 2D game ever
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We need this! A game as big as SOTN looks that good, so imagine the detail and work put into a less complex package? It has the potential to be the best looking 2D game ever
Then again we could also have Ark System Works make a 2.5D Castlevania since they are the only ones who've mastered it, that and Hard Corps Uprising was fucking amazing
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Here's what i would like
Leon whipping style. 2D
Classicvania- whip only- subs
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I want an original story heavily inspired by Castlevania 3, featuring a female Belmont, with a Bloodborne-style art design, that does NOT set up for a sequel and is content to just be it's own game separate from everything else.
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Here's what i would like
Leon whipping style. 2D
Classicvania- whip only- subs
Except for 1 problem, Leon's whipping style is horrible when it comes to whipping candles because it's so slow.
That's why LOI gave the player that item which allowed running through candles.
You can't have 2dvania without candles.
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Except for 1 problem, Leon's whipping style is horrible when it comes to whipping candles because it's so slow.
That's why LOI gave the player that item which allowed running through candles.
You can't have 2dvania without candles.
It's a little simpler in 2D, you could just adjust the hitbox on the whip arcs, If anything that control method would be closer to MMX4's Zero.
though the hard part settles in, combos usually comes with sponge enemies
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It's a little simpler in 2D, you could just adjust the hitbox on the whip arcs, If anything that control method would be closer to MMX4's Zero.
though the hard part settles in, combos usually comes with sponge enemies
That's a good point, but I mean literally play LOI and whip once with Leon, it takes about 3.5 seconds, it's too slow. His whipping needs to be sped up slightly, that's all. Also single whips in the air, or make it more like Trevor's in COD where it doesn't interrupt the jump action, otherwise we end up with another floaty ass MoF on our hands.
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How about a true remake to castlevania the adventure or Belmont's revenge? I had always thought that those two games (if done right) could bring something new to the table. Christopher could be able to whip diagonally on foot or while on rope. Branching paths and alt. levels. Some just stairs, just rope, or both. Since adventure just had you using vampire killer, how about a mode with just sub weapons with infinite hearts or something? How about giving us a mode with soleiyu? Also, I think it would do castlevania some good if the background and excitement was more interactive then just platformings sake. Bring the swinging hooks back. Also, I like how adventures stage 2 boss, wasn't even a boss. It was more like a gauntlet type thing? i would love to see more of that with other enemies. Maybe even just as rooms that trap you unless you defeat them all. Good and bad treasure rooms. Liked the mini boss idea too. Another thing would be to have bosses have unique platforming or enemies that effect your combat. Just a few things off the top of my head.
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How about a true remake to castlevania the adventure
Castlevania: Adventure Rebirth was made FYI
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Castlevania: Adventure Rebirth was made FYI
He said a true remake.
Adventure rebirth is further from the adventure game boy game than Castlevania chronicles is from cv1 on NES.
It was a huge dissapointment IMO.
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He said a true remake.
With all due respect please cast your personal opinions aside, it is a true remake.
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With all due respect please cast your personal opinions aside, it is a true remake.
Oh I only considered the part that was opinion being that it was a bit of a dissapointment.
It's a completely different game. Not a true remake. That's why the game calls itself a "Rebirth".
Where are the ropes? Why are there stairs?
The icing on the cake; opening the game with music from bloodlines! Wtf? How ya gonna call it adventure rebirth and not open with battle of the holy?
It may be Christopher and it may occupy the same time slot, but it's not even an echo of what adventure on gameboy was.
But it is a better game than original adventure. Don't get me wrong. I just think they could have made it better by making it feel like an updated version of the original rather than something completely different.
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In my opinion that is exactly how Adventure rebirth should have been. An updated CV adventure rather then a full-on re-imagining.
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Adventure Rebirth is a good Castlevania game itself despite the negative faces
- Hard mode is insane, lots of stage elements depends on RNG (From stage 3)
- Lack of multi-directional whip swings/hook gimmick
- No rope actions like older "Christopher Belmont" games (The ropes ARE there, but only the skeletons can use them)
- Can't "jump to" or "leave" the stairs like Rondo
But I agree the idea that Adventure Rebirth is "Not a true remake" due to the stages, game mechanics and other stuff belong to something like re-imagine, like modern titles
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I want an original story heavily inspired by Castlevania 3, featuring a female Belmont, with a Bloodborne-style art design, that does NOT set up for a sequel and is content to just be it's own game separate from everything else.
Now that sounds fuckin awesome. I am a huge Sonia fsn, so maybe another reboot, this time from the very beginning, featuring who is, in my opinion at least, a MUCH more interesting protagonist than Leon.
I mean, back then women weren't allowed to go into battle and fight, so imagine a story like that, Sonia going to prove her strength. Sounds like something Anita Sarkeesian would make except without the man hating ;D
Reminds me of how CV3 used ppl's fears of black magic back then as a plot device. Replace Alucard with a new love interest, or eliminate that aspect.
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How about a true remake to castlevania the adventure or Belmont's revenge? I had always thought that those two games (if done right) could bring something new to the table. Christopher could be able to whip diagonally on foot or while on rope. Branching paths and alt. levels. Some just stairs, just rope, or both. Since adventure just had you using vampire killer, how about a mode with just sub weapons with infinite hearts or something? How about giving us a mode with soleiyu? Also, I think it would do castlevania some good if the background and excitement was more interactive then just platformings sake. Bring the swinging hooks back. Also, I like how adventures stage 2 boss, wasn't even a boss. It was more like a gauntlet type thing? i would love to see more of that with other enemies. Maybe even just as rooms that trap you unless you defeat them all. Good and bad treasure rooms. Liked the mini boss idea too. Another thing would be to have bosses have unique platforming or enemies that effect your combat. Just a few things off the top of my head.
I can see a sort of LOS type retelling of BR. Maybe start the game with Chris's original Drac battle akin to SOTN's start, and then get into BR's story.
The reason I say LOS style is because BR took CV in a more fantasy driven setting than horror, which is what LOS did. Plus the idea of the four castle's reminds of those epic action-fantasy films that LOS tried to mimmic. Do it here but more 80s style than modern day style.
Make it an open world where you can exit or return to the four castle's any time you want, or do what LOI did with its level select. Make a Soleiyu mode if you beat the game.
BR is such an overlooked title for ppl outside of us. It really is one of the best in the series, and remake potential is there
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I would like to see a new time mechanic so that you could explore stages a bit. I don't know, maybe when time's up boss comes at you supercharged, but when you defeat him he goes back to the end of the stage.
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This will sound absolutely mental but:
A remake of Simon's Quest with a lot of (too ambitious :-\) additions.
Imagine it, a 3D Open world, where you can decide how to tackle the count:
-Players can take the linear root, find Dracula's parts in separate dungeons, and go straight for the count himself
- Optional side-quests that add to a karma rating,as at this time, the Belmonts were feared by the general public. If you gain enough trust, you can build an army to help fight the count and make things much easier. Of course if you don't do any quests, the villagers will give you the infamously misleading clues from the NES game.
-You can choose not to fight the count at all, and go on 3 other alternate quests with completely different items to collect, some easier, some harder: Cure Simon's illness, revive Alucard to help you or even become Dracula yourself (yes, like LOS, and yes, assuming Legends is canon)
- Maybe 20 in-game days to complete the game, perhaps it could be an optional mode? It did become a little annoying in CV64 afterall
Maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but I think it would be an interesting game.
Otherwise, another classicvania, or reviving one of the cancelled games: Castlevania:Resurrection or Castlevania:Bloodletting?
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Bloodletting wouldn't make sense to pick up as what little was actually completed of the game was quickly folded into Symphony of the Night, effectively making THAT game the real Bloodletting.
Finally making Resurrection's not a bad idea though.
The Lords of Shadow saga proved (again) that a 3D Castlevania needn't be horrible, and actually generated plenty of market goodwill.
The soundtrack to Resurrection was okay, and gave a good idea of where things would be headed tonally, and what little footage from the game that leaked (the opening FMV and about 30 seconds of Sonia running around a dining room) showed they'd be going for a more traditional Gothic art style with an anime twist.
It might not be all that hard to pitch the idea to a studio already interested in adding to the Castlevania legacy -- Ninja Theory for instance.
It wouldn't be what we were originally promised, but it'd probably be good.
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and what little footage from the game that leaked (the opening FMV and about 30 seconds of Sonia running around a dining room) showed they'd be going for a more traditional Gothic art style with an anime twist.
From what I saw of the vid and screen captures there was no anime to be had. The art was more realistic in style and is western influenced rather then Japanese (of course it was the US branch of Konami that was developing the game). But given how the CG cut scenes looked I think going with an anime look rather then what we saw would have been the better bet. Especially since Legends' artstyle was anime to begin with.
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That's a good point, but I mean literally play LOI and whip once with Leon, it takes about 3.5 seconds, it's too slow. His whipping needs to be sped up slightly, that's all. Also single whips in the air, or make it more like Trevor's in COD where it doesn't interrupt the jump action, otherwise we end up with another floaty ass MoF on our hands.
Highlighted the good points:
Why does a 2D game need to be Sonic the Hedgehog speed? I think slow(er) whipping with a basic combo system would keep it fresh; so long as they stay away from the Lift Up strikes that turn you into a sky fairy with a whip.
The point you made about Trevor's Whip would mesh well as you can set up some good opportunities to speed up your whip game with some well timed jump cancels. You want fast? gotta earn that shit!
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SubstituteBelmont, FUCK YES! Count me in to that idea.
If Simon's Quest was 3d and the game was open world it would be fan-fucking-tastic.
Highlighted the good points:
Why does a 2D game need to be Sonic the Hedgehog speed? I think slow(er) whipping with a basic combo system would keep it fresh; so long as they stay away from the Lift Up strikes that turn you into a sky fairy with a whip.
The point you made about Trevor's Whip would mesh well as you can set up some good opportunities to speed up your whip game with some well timed jump cancels. You want fast? gotta earn that shit!
Haha well I like Sonic, I grew up playing the series ;)
I'm just saying the shipping speed of a normal Belmont in 2d games is about 1-1.3 seconds, there's no need to make it slower.
Earnin' and burnin' snappin' necks and cashin' cheques!
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In terms of a next generation game that retains the classic feel, I loved Hard Corp: Uprising. Although it's technically Contra, they had a lot of levels that paid tribute to old classic games like Gradius, Metal Gear, and Level 3 was essentially Castlevania with a gun.
I loved the fact that it was 2.5D that retained the use of sprites for characters, but 3D for the background art.
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In terms of a next generation game that retains the classic feel, I loved Hard Corp: Uprising. Although it's technically Contra, they had a lot of levels that paid tribute to old classic games like Gradius, Metal Gear, and Level 3 was essentially Castlevania with a gun.
I loved the fact that it was 2.5D that retained the use of sprites for characters, but 3D for the background art.
Ditto.