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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Nagumo on October 22, 2015, 10:32:14 AM

Title: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: Nagumo on October 22, 2015, 10:32:14 AM
I don't why I'm making a thread about this, but we need to talk about something, I guess.

Anyway, I was looking at the conversation between Shanoa and Albus at the end of the game in the Japanese version of the game, and when Albus starts talking about the villagers it actually is more specific than the English version. When Albus refers to them he uses the word "enseki" which means "distant relative". So he calls them distant relatives of the Belmont family. It's just a minor detail but it does proof that the theories about Richter's descendant being in Wygol village and Daniela having some sort of connection to Richter can be ruled out.

But then you ask: "Well, if OoE doesn't show what became of the main Belmont line, then what's even the point of the story?". I came up with two possible answers to this. Depending on the answer, it changes my perception of OoE's story.

1) This is my prefered explanation. OoE doesn't actually explain what became of the Belmont family, it actually sets up the protagonists of the later games: the Morris and Lecarde families. This would mean they don't actually have the whip at this point time, so it still has to be handed to them later (I don't know if it's clearly established that the Morris family got the whip from Richter directly or from someone else like Alucard). It would also explain the whereabouts of the Morris family during OoE. You could say they were living abroad at this time but I expressed my problems with that in an earlier thread.

2) The second explanation would be disappointing in my opinion: the story of OoE is completely pointless and the Wygol villagers are just a bunch of nobodies who happen to have Belmont blood, and this blood basically has the plot function of magic fairy dust which can do anything. Also, the Morris family is somewhere doing something and the reason organisations like Ecclesia exist is purely to support the ability gimmick of the main character.

I would really like to believe the first explanation 1 is true, but on the other hand I'm kind of fearful about it actually being 2. What do you guys think it is (or should be)?     
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: theplottwist on October 22, 2015, 10:55:24 AM
I hardly believe it's the second explanation. The villagers are too big of a plot point for them to be pointless. I believe the first explanation more, but when it gets to the Morris part I kinda step back a little.

What were your previous concerns with the Morris living abroad?
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: Nagumo on October 22, 2015, 11:39:21 AM
Well, I personally think that as soon as Morris family gets the whip there is from a storytelling perspective, not necessarily from a pure logical perspective, there's no convincing reason why they would stay in the USA. Of course you could say they are reluctant to meet their destiny and so on, which makes perfect sense in itself, but when you think about the story mechanically, it would just be kind of pointless. You would basically stall their entrance on stage just so that OoE can happen.

It would also like to further defend my stance with a piece of lore introduced by HoD, which is that whenever Dracula revives, all his lackies that got killed off come back as well, and that the Belmont family has the additional duty of hunting them down whenever Dracula is not around. So after SotN we still have a bunch of monsters running around in Transylvania that need to be taken care of. So I think it would be weird if the Morris family would have accepted the whip they wouldn't immediately go after these monsters otherwise they would not fulfill their duty as successors to the Belmont family. 

Of course the duty of destroying these monsters ended up in the various organizations like Ecclesia. So I personally think that when these organisations were around, the Morris family wasn't, not even somewhere else out of sight, because it raises unnecessary questions and doesn't make sense, IMO. Whether that's actually the case is a whole other question of course.

Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 22, 2015, 11:53:36 AM
Nagumo, wasn't it also explained in the ending that the power of Dominus that Shanoa uses to defeat Dracula was also aided in part by the her absorbing the glyphs that were imprisoning the Belmont descendants? I thought it was explained that their power was indirectly used with Dominus, which was the very reason Albus kidnapped them.

An answer to your query may depend on where OOE is placed in the timeline. If you follow the theory that Serge is Reinhardt (assuming you believe the 64 games happen in the main timeline) then it's around 1810. This/ similar theories would rule out Richter as Daniela's grandfather.

I always ruled Richter out as Daniela's grandfather anyway as she's at least 70 years old. Even if OOE happens in 1850 it's not enough time for Richter to have been her grandfather. The second point on this is that every Belmont heir to the VK in the main timeline with Legends retconned, is male. Therefore it's not to say other Belmonts including females didn't train and fight, but every main heir has proven to be a male which is necessary for carrying on the family's name until Julius (with the exception of the break between Richter>>>Quincy).

My personal view is that because the Wygol villagers' blood is enchanted (with power) they are actual Belmont blood descendants. I say this because the Morris clan need to undergo a ritual to unlock the power of the VK to access said power. Whether some are more distant that others is niether here nor there but it's that they themselves being men or women are direct offshoots of the Belmont bloodline i.e. A selected few remaining Belmonts of those past who did not inherit the VK. Perhaps some later became Morrises or not (as OOE is set prior to Dracula>POR) is anyone's guess. The reporter kind of looks like Richter, but he could just come from the same family tree.

Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: theplottwist on October 22, 2015, 12:08:37 PM
Quote from: zangetsu468 on October 22, 2015, 11:53:36 AM
Nagumo, wasn't it also explained in the ending that the power of Dominus that Shanoa uses to defeat Dracula was also aided in part by the her absorbing the glyphs that were imprisoning the Belmont descendants? I thought it was explained that their power was indirectly used with Dominus, which was the very reason Albus kidnapped them.

I know I'm not Nagumo, but I believe this is not exactly it.

You see, Dominus was INDEED built to destroy Dracula, because it has the "Ultimate power of destruction". Proof of this is that it really does destroy Dracula when used. However, due to containing Dracula's great power, it also contains his ability to corrupt.

The Belmont power was only needed so Shanoa would not be corrupted by this power while in the mission to use it against Dracula. Each of the Belmont relatives contributed a little with this power so Shanoa would resist Dominus as she absorbed it in pieces. She has at least two villagers rescued before she gets the first Dominus piece.

In the final battle we get a clear demonstration from Dracula himself that Shanoa simply CAN'T defeat him. He was merely toying with her all the time. It can be even inferred that the fact he doesn't even turn into a demon abomination is also a demonstration of how she isn't even scratching him.

He didn't expect her to have his own power under her control, however, as we see in his last words. He recognizes that the power of Dominus is his, and that possibly it is the only thing besides the Vampire Killer that can destroy him.
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: theplottwist on October 22, 2015, 12:16:29 PM
Quote from: Nagumo on October 22, 2015, 11:39:21 AM
Well, I personally think that as soon as Morris family gets the whip there is from a storytelling perspective, not necessarily from a pure logical perspective, there's no convincing reason why they would stay in the USA. Of course you could say they are reluctant to meet their destiny and so on, which makes perfect sense in itself, but when you think about the story mechanically, it would just be kind of pointless. You would basically stall their entrance on stage just so that OoE can happen.

Well, the thing here is: The Morris didn't receive the whip to fight Dracula, but to guard it. As Jonathan's dialogue with Wind in Portrait goes, the Morris weren't expected to wield the whip at all, but to keep it until the Belmonts could wield it again in 1999. So this is a pretty good reason why they would stay in the US - there had no need for them in Romania. That is, until Dracula rose and they had to take an instance.

Quote
It would also like to further defend my stance with a piece of lore introduced by HoD, which is that whenever Dracula revives, all his lackies that got killed off come back as well, and that the Belmont family has the additional duty of hunting them down whenever Dracula is not around. So after SotN we still have a bunch of monsters running around in Transylvania that need to be taken care of. So I think it would be weird if the Morris family would have accepted the whip they wouldn't immediately go after these monsters otherwise they would not fulfill their duty as successors to the Belmont family. 

With this I agree. Judgment and Castlevania II also support this, as Simon is still hunting well after Dracula is gone. Richter is also hunting on the radio drama - though I'm not sure if he's after Dracula lackeys.

Quote
Of course the duty of destroying these monsters ended up in the various organizations like Ecclesia. So I personally think that when these organisations were around, the Morris family wasn't, not even somewhere else out of sight, because it raises unnecessary questions and doesn't make sense, IMO. Whether that's actually the case is a whole other question of course.

And this is what I was going to say; Ecclesia took up the mantle of riding the land from evil. This doesn't necessarily means that the Morris were useless. If their duty was to guard the whip (and in Ecclesia it is said that the whip has disappeared - which could mean it is already with the Morris OR gone with Richter) then guarding the whip is what they're doing, while Ecclesia takes up the fighting.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAND I double posted. I'm sorry :(
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: Nagumo on October 22, 2015, 01:24:34 PM
Hmmm, I never got the impression the Morris family were just guardians. This quote from PoR makes me pretty confident.

Quote
Jonathan: I just don't get it... Why did the Belmonts give this
          thing to the Morris family?! If not for this, we would
          be spared so much pain!

Eric: Because the Belmonts cannot touch the whip now. It is
      predicted that Dracula will be revived in year 1999. I've
      heard that the Belmonts must not touch the Vampire Killer
      until then.

Jonathan: But...!

Eric: Others have appeared to revive Dracula in the meantime.
      Somebody has to stand up and stop them. And only the
      Morris family is able to do that!

Perhaps more strong evidence is from the "Before Gallery of Labyrinth" section from the PoR official guide, in John's brief bio, it mentions he fulfills the role of vampire hunter.

http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-por/game-castlevaniapor.htm (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-por/game-castlevaniapor.htm)
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: X on October 22, 2015, 02:57:40 PM
Quote
AAAAAAAAAAAAAND I double posted. I'm sorry :(

lol. It's the triple posts you gotta look out for  ;)
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: Claimh Solais on October 22, 2015, 03:07:45 PM
Quote from: zangetsu468 on October 22, 2015, 11:53:36 AM
The reporter kind of looks like Richter, but he could just come from the same family tree.

I'm literally not furthering this discussion by saying this, but I also wanna point out that the reporter has the same English voice actor as Richter, too (David Vincent).
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: theplottwist on October 22, 2015, 06:55:37 PM
Quote from: Nagumo on October 22, 2015, 01:24:34 PM
Hmmm, I never got the impression the Morris family were just guardians. This quote from PoR makes me pretty confident.

Perhaps more strong evidence is from the "Before Gallery of Labyrinth" section from the PoR official guide, in John's brief bio, it mentions he fulfills the role of vampire hunter.

http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-por/game-castlevaniapor.htm (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv-por/game-castlevaniapor.htm)

Wielding the whip doesn't seem to be a prerequisite to be a vampire hunter, though. They could be vampire hunters very well without needing the whip to do so.

Also, something you said that ringed another bell:

Quote
So I personally think that when these organisations were around, the Morris family wasn't, not even somewhere else out of sight, because it raises unnecessary questions and doesn't make sense, IMO. Whether that's actually the case is a whole other question of course.

If by "being around" you mean "being useful" then it could be. But if you mean "existing" then I disagree. The Morris are direct descendants of Trevor Belmont - as stated in the family tree appearing in the Lament of Innocence Guide (http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/castlevania/images/9/94/NTT-LOI-Timeline.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121011020525) - so they have existed for many centuries now (one reason why I believe that the Morris were the ones chosen to keep the whip).

So they could have carried the vampire hunting business from their side of the family.
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: AlexCalvo on October 22, 2015, 08:31:14 PM
I actually asked Iga in the reddit AMA what the deal was with the Morris family during the events of OoE.  His translator said it was a long explanation that he would post later... never happened.  >:( :'(
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 23, 2015, 08:43:45 AM
Did Dominus corrupt Barlowe, making him want to revive Dracula? I always had the impression Barlowe was just corrupt and Ecclesia was a front for reviving Dracula rather than destroying him. There's only 100 yrs between Rondo and Dracula the novel. Thus aside from OOE there wouldn't have necessarily been many if any other instances of an NCR. 
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on October 23, 2015, 08:51:57 AM
Quote from: theplottwist on October 22, 2015, 12:16:29 PM
Richter is also hunting on the radio drama - though I'm not sure if he's after Dracula lackeys.

He was hunting werewolves and other sorts of minions if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: theplottwist on October 23, 2015, 09:27:38 AM
Quote from: zangetsu468 on October 23, 2015, 08:43:45 AM
Did Dominus corrupt Barlowe, making him want to revive Dracula? I always had the impression Barlowe was just corrupt and Ecclesia was a front for reviving Dracula rather than destroying him. There's only 100 yrs between Rondo and Dracula the novel. Thus aside from OOE there wouldn't have necessarily been many if any other instances of an NCR.

I always got the impression that Barlowe was corrupted by exposure to Dominus (like Albus was). I mean, if Dominus was meant to revive Dracula, why the hell does it work just like Barlowe "tricked you into believing" it would? Sure, it kills the user, but it sure as heck kills Dracula too.

Shanoa also mentions this on her conversation with Barlowe:

(click to show/hide)

Plus there is more: We see by Barlowe's sacrifice that a simple sacrifice could've broken the seal. So no, Dominus was not needed at all to break it. More evidence that it was always meant to destroy Dracula, but Barlowe got crazy and repurposed Dominus' function.
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: Nagumo on October 23, 2015, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: AlexCalvo on October 22, 2015, 08:31:14 PM
I actually asked Iga in the reddit AMA what the deal was with the Morris family during the events of OoE.  His translator said it was a long explanation that he would post later... never happened.  >:( :'(

I saw that and I was a bit disappointed, too. Too bad there's no other opportunity to ask IGA again.

Quote from: theplottwist on October 22, 2015, 06:55:37 PM
Wielding the whip doesn't seem to be a prerequisite to be a vampire hunter, though. They could be vampire hunters very well without needing the whip to do so.

I don't think there is any material that definitely states whether or not the Morris family uses the Vampire Killer outside of Dracula battles. I'm more inclinded to believe they would, but since I can't back that up with hard facts, it's just my opinion.

Something else I wanted to bring up is that I believe after OoE came out it became commonly accepted that "The Belmont family ended up in Wygol village" was the explanation for what happend to them after Richter disappeared. ...but now that explanation falls apart because of the Wygol villagers being only distant relatives. Which means we still don't know where the actual Belmonts are. So now we're basically back at the beginning. Oh well.
 
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: X on October 23, 2015, 02:54:21 PM
Quote
Something else I wanted to bring up is that I believe after OoE came out it became commonly accepted that "The Belmont family ended up in Wygol village" was the explanation for what happend to them after Richter disappeared. ...but now that explanation falls apart because of the Wygol villagers being only distant relatives. Which means we still don't know where the actual Belmonts are. So now we're basically back at the beginning. Oh well.

That, and you'd also have to consider that there are a heck of a lot more families of Belmonts out there in the world. 13 people hardly makes up for an entire group of families, unless it was supposed to be 13 representatives from each of the families in Romania, which would make more sense. However the main family line (Belmont) is not there and neither is the Morris clan for that matter since they are in the US.
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 23, 2015, 03:51:58 PM
Quote from: theplottwist on October 23, 2015, 09:27:38 AM
I always got the impression that Barlowe was corrupted by exposure to Dominus (like Albus was). I mean, if Dominus was meant to revive Dracula, why the hell does it work just like Barlowe "tricked you into believing" it would? Sure, it kills the user, but it sure as heck kills Dracula too.

Not disputing it can destroy Dracula. However Barlowe runs Ecclesia and he would know that it's the only thing strong enough to destroy the seal.


SPOILERS BELOW
Quote from: theplottwist on October 23, 2015, 09:27:38 AM
Shanoa also mentions this on her conversation with Barlowe:

(click to show/hide)

The only thing this quote is telling me is that:
A) Dominus was indeed created to destroy Dracula, however
B) Barlowe is corrupt and has "chaos" in his heart - which he states mankind having is the reason for Dracula's perpetual return (which is substantiated by OOE and other games)
C) If Dominus had corrupted him, why wouldn't he just lie to Shanoa in order to break the seal - which he initially told her was the vessel for Dracula's soul? Why tell her AS she was about to break it? It makes no sense
D) He outright states that Ecclesia's purpose is to revive Dracula
E) Shanoa accuses him of being corrupted by Dominus and he point blank states NO
F) Why use Shanoa/ Dominus when a simple sacrifice would do?
- He didn't want to sacrifice himself,
- He didn't know if a normal sacrifice would be enough but tried anyway,
- He knew Shanoa without Dominus wouldn't have been a strong enough sacrifice,
- Because story

Quote from: theplottwist on October 23, 2015, 09:27:38 AM
Plus there is more: We see by Barlowe's sacrifice that a simple sacrifice could've broken the seal. So no, Dominus was not needed at all to break it. More evidence that it was always meant to destroy Dracula, but Barlowe got crazy and repurposed Dominus' function.

As I stated above, Barlowe would not have wanted to sacrifice himself. He crawls over to the seal as a last ditch effort and self destructs. It still required a large amount of power to destroy this seal and Barlowe is very strongly skilled in magic. Therefore Shanoa trying to break the seal without Dominus isn't something that would have been possible.

Why otherwise would Barlowe fight Shanoa? If he was truly corrupted by Dominus, he would've walked straight over to the seal and self destructed when Shanoa refused. Instead he fights her saying things (in the english versionn) such as "I raised you" and "stupid disciple". I believe Barlowe was actually sincere in his words to Shanoa, he wanted Dracula resurrected. That's why Ecclesia was formed. Also not that it matters, but it's interesting to note in the parallel timeline in OOS "The Order" is the cult trying to resurrect Dracula, coincidence or parallel occurrences... I say the latter :)


Nagumo I'm assuming for the term "Enseki" you're using a specific formation of kanji? I'm no expert in Japanese but severak of the translation sites I've just tried out list the term as both "relative", "relatives" and "distant relative".

I'm inclined to believe these Wygol villagers were like the Morrises, descendants carrying the 13 remaining bloodlines of the Belmont clan, but not the one "true" Belmont lineage (that carried the 'rightful male heir' to the VK) which gave birth to Julius ready for the battle of 1999.
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: theplottwist on October 23, 2015, 04:37:10 PM
Quote from: zangetsu468 on October 23, 2015, 03:51:58 PM
Not disputing it can destroy Dracula. However Barlowe runs Ecclesia and he would know that it's the only thing strong enough to destroy the seal.

No reason to build something that can destroy Dracula himself when all he needed was to destroy the seal, which is obviously much weaker than the Demon Lord of all Darkness.

Sure, sure, if the seal was keeping Dracula inside, then it was stronger. But was stronger than a WEAKENED Dracula. The seal didn't need to be stronger than Dracula, it only needed to be stronger than Dracula when he's dead.

So, again, no reason for Barlowe to build something that can actually destroy an awakened Dracula when he needed only something strong enough to destroy the seal.

Quote
B) Barlowe is corrupt and has "chaos" in his heart - which he states mankind having is the reason for Dracula's perpetual return (which is substantiated by OOE and other games)

And, of course, Shanoa, not being drunk with evil, understands that mankind desires for no such thing. Barlowe is not even making sense here.

Quote
C) If Dominus had corrupted him, why wouldn't he just lie to Shanoa in order to break the seal - which he initially told her was the vessel for Dracula's soul? Why tell her AS she was about to break it? It makes no sense

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean here. There is a LARGE piece of dialogue before this, and Shanoa makes it quite clear she's not doing it because she already knows what's up - thanks to Albus. Barlowe loses his posture because Shanoa will not comply. He wouldn't lie because there is NO WAY he can lie here.

Quote
D) He outright states that Ecclesia's purpose is to revive Dracula

He also states the mankind wishes for Dracula's revival  :rollseyes:

Again, he's not making any sense and is delusional at this point. And even if he weren't, who is to say that he hasn't repurposed Ecclesia right now? He's the founder. He can do whatever the hell he wants at any point in time. Who is to say he did NOT think like this before being corrupted?

Quote
E) Shanoa accuses him of being corrupted by Dominus and he point blank states NO

I don't believe he's saying "No, Shanoa. I'm not corrupted". I believe it's more like "No, Shanoa... How could you let me down now?";

And again: If you were corrupted, would you say "YES YES I'M CORRUPTED YES"? Of course not. Barlowe thinks these ideas are his, and not creations of Dracula's influence. He thinks he's doing the right thing.

See the battle with Albus. Albus NEVER recognizes he's corrupted while corrupted, and well... He quite clearly is.

Quote
F) Why use Shanoa/ Dominus when a simple sacrifice would do?
- He didn't want to sacrifice himself,
- He didn't know if a normal sacrifice would be enough but tried anyway,
- He knew Shanoa without Dominus wouldn't have been a strong enough sacrifice,
- Because story

He didn't want to sacrifice himself - yet he happily did it when he couldn't obtain Dominus.

He didn't know if a normal sacrifice would be enough but tried anyway - I give you this one. It seems to me that he was ony sure it'd work when he was right about to do it.

He knew Shanoa without Dominus wouldn't have been a strong enough sacrifice - Makes no sense. If your hypothesis is correct, then Dominus was designed to break the seal, and not kill Dracula. If it was designed to break the seal, then a sacrifice wasn't even needed at all. He only needed someone with an innate ability to use glyphs - Shanoa - so he'd not have to consider if Shanoa was enough or not. Proof of this is that they fight each other because Barlowe wants Dominus so he can use it himself. All that was ever needed was Dominus, therefore a sacrifice was never even considered.

Because story - Oh well.

Quote
As I stated above, Barlowe would not have wanted to sacrifice himself. He crawls over to the seal as a last ditch effort and self destructs. It still required a large amount of power to destroy this seal and Barlowe is very strongly skilled in magic. Therefore Shanoa trying to break the seal without Dominus isn't something that would have been possible.

And as I said up there: If your hypothesis is correct, a blood sacrifice was never even considered. All that was ever needed was Dominus, and since Shanoa was supposed to be the only one able to use glyphs, she was needed. Once Barlowe noticed that he could too use Glyphs like Albus, Shanoa became useless and he tried to rip the glyph from her by force.

Important of note: Dominus does kill it's user. But only because Dracula's power is too much to bear, and not because "sacrifice". Each of the Glyphs, when used separatelly, consume Shanoa's life. This is a side effect of Dracula's power, and not "intended so the user is sacrificed".

Quote
Why otherwise would Barlowe fight Shanoa?

To take the Glyph from her and use it himself.
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: Nagumo on October 23, 2015, 05:46:31 PM
About the meaning of enseki, within the game it was written with the following: 遠 and  縁. The first one means "distant". The other one can have a meaning of "relation", "connenction", etc.

Regarding Barlowe and Dracula's seal, Barlowe becomes Dracula's vessel, right? I always interpreted that scene where he clutches at the vessel that is holding Dracula's remains he is actually possessed by Dracula's power/magic. So I think the seal was never actually broken and that is was more of a last ditch effort to bring back Dracula in some form. Perhaps breaking the seal would have been a more preferable outcome because then Dracula would be fully revived instead of needing a host body?   
Title: Re: So none of the Wygol villagers are actually descendants of Richter.
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 24, 2015, 02:03:02 AM
Quote from: Nagumo on October 23, 2015, 05:46:31 PM
About the meaning of enseki, within the game it was written with the following: 遠 and  縁. The first one means "distant". The other one can have a meaning of "relation", "connenction", etc.
I still believe they're descended from all remaining non-heir to the VK 13 'Belmont' bloodlines (at whatever point in history they have been offshoots to the main "Belmont" lineage). That's just my interpretation, how distant the term 'distant' means is anyone's guess, they can't be any more distant than the Morrises seeing they were specifically descended from Trevor Belmont.
I'm not going to read too much into that because I don't think story has ever been CV's strongest point. I acknowledge there still is thought put into this plot but it comes down to basic things, the developers wanted a female protagonist who wasn't a VK wielding Belmont and there needed to be a means to destroy Dracula [Dominus].

In terms of the term 'enseki' I don't know maybe in that one line the wrong kanji was used, or maybe the simple explanation is that intention was for the villagers to be more like the equivalent descendants which haven't procreated off the true lineage of the Belmonts that wield the VK. It's strongly inferred in Iga's timeline that maintaining the Belmont lineage was of the utmost importance from Leon>Julius in both name and in blood.

Quote from: Nagumo on October 23, 2015, 05:46:31 PM
Regarding Barlowe and Dracula's seal, Barlowe becomes Dracula's vessel, right? I always interpreted that scene where he clutches at the vessel that is holding Dracula's remains he is actually possessed by Dracula's power/magic. So I think the seal was never actually broken and that is was more of a last ditch effort to bring back Dracula in some form. Perhaps breaking the seal would have been a more preferable outcome because then Dracula would be fully revived instead of needing a host body?

On a side note, I always interpreted that vessel (perhaps only in the context of OOE though) to be the Crimson Stone. It has a crimson hue, contains the soul of Dracula and it's thought that Dracula by having the Crimson Stone can keep returning as he can keep absorbing his soul, thereby also growing more powerful over centuries, should he be defeated. As well as Ecclesia (Barlowe) who seems to have been guarding this in their safehold for who knows how long.

the seal was never actually broken - as quoted above
Whether plot's interpretation or mine is correct (sorry plot, I have to agree to disagree  8), I only played OOE properly back in 2008 so I'd have to play through it again to properly reply to you) I interpreted something similar to you Nagumo. Barlowe wanted the seal broken on the vessel containing Dracula's soul, which is why he wanted Dominus to be used. He wanted Shanoa to use it (or anyone who wasn't him) so he wouldn't have to sacrifice himself, or also simply because Shanoa had mastered the skill to use glyphs better than anyone else. After she wouldn't use it, they fight, after he can't win as a last ditch effort he uses all of his magic/ power to self destruct, causing the vessel to fracture, releasing Dracula's soul (more on this point below) and Castlevania
to materialise into the physical plane again, with Dracula's throne literally still residing behind the gates to hell/ the underworld.

Dracula would be fully revived - as quoted above
This is never explicitly stated but I believe it holds at least some merit. The more preferable outcome was to break the seal on the vessel, thereby allowing Dracula to re-incarnate in his full former glory (presumably). Because Barlowe couldn't have this outcome which he desired, what he did was either:

A - As above, just put all of his magic/ power into one final self-sacrificial blast to try and break the seal on the vessel/ break it open to release Dracula's soul.
B - Sacrifice himself as the 'host body' much like Isaac was in COD.

Personally I choose A. There's no indication to me that Barlowe was a host body in the ending or any other place. I'm not against the idea but just not seeing it, and even so it's not a focal point of the story.

Presuming A is correct, why didn't Barlowe just do this from the start? Ideally he didn't want to sacrifice himself and he didn't know whether it would work. I can imagine than resurrecting the Dark Lord isn't like microwaving chicken, things could potentially go wrong quite easily, and there would be no guarantee the resurrection would work or take any effect if the procedure wasn't carried out as smoothly as possible. I mean Barlowe fights with books, Ecclesia had a library dedicated presumably to the application of magic, alchemy and the use of glyphs. (I don't think that shelf was simply full of manga...) Means aside Perhaps the outcome to all of this meant that with the vessel being fractured releasing Dracula's soul rather than the seal being broken, the resurrection was incomplete, or not as "complete" as it should have been. Remember that Dracula's throne is still behind the gates to hell, which would mean he's not complete yet. Whether OOE's Dracula was intended as a Centennial resurrection or not is debatable, it may have initially been until Shanoa refused to use Dominus on the seal to Dracula's soul's vessel.

This is the other reason in my mind why Barlowe is not simply "corrupted" by Dominus imo. He established or at least was the head of Ecclesia at the time of OOE. That vessel (I'll call it the Crimson Stone) was sitting in Ecclesia since Lord knows when. Ecclesia as an organisation (in the absence of the Belmonts) has always focused on 1 goal which was to take down Dracula. If I'm understanding correctly, Barlowe raised Shanoa and Albus as if they were brother and sister, but Albus found out what he was trying to do, then took the Dominus glyphs/ kidnapped the Belmont descendants/ set out on his quest, yadayada. Barlowe himself seems to have invested a lot of time into Shanoa and Albus and had one focal point which started many years ago. I think Barlowe had chaos in his heart and established Ecclesia to revive Dracula, that's really what I interpreted from the game at the time of playing it. I'm not saying Barlowe wasn't corrupted I'm just not interpreting the when/how the same as someone like theplottwist.