Castlevania Dungeon Forums

The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: theplottwist on January 22, 2016, 05:48:51 PM

Title: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: theplottwist on January 22, 2016, 05:48:51 PM
First we must make it clear that we've never seen Soma absorb a human soul before. Dmitrii was a special case. Soma did kill Graham Jones, but he got not soul from him and, in Dawn, he states - upon absorbing Dmitrii - that he has never gained dominance over a human soul before.

Therefore, this is mere a thought-experiment for fun purposes. I have my own hypothesis but I want to see yours first. Go!
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: TatteredSeraph on January 22, 2016, 05:57:03 PM
Hmm... tricky one.  Possibly either a silver soul which gives an amount of immunity to Holy magics and weapons, or a red bullet type soul that lets Soma wield a corrupted immitation of the Vampire Killer.  As a reference to LoS2, I'm picturing him wielding a blood whip.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: theplottwist on January 22, 2016, 09:45:08 PM
Well, here is my reasoning:

To start researching the answer for this question, we need first to discover how to identify any trait of a Belmont's soul. Not many leads are ever given in the series, but I believe I have JUST the perfect evidence:

(http://i.imgur.com/7GMYxki.png)

See, Death can obviously observe an individual's soul, and it tells the player that its color is one important trait of the soul of a Belmont. Furthermore, it can be deduced rather safely that Death recognizes Juste as being a Belmont because he has seen this trait of his soul - its color - a bunch of times in the past. So, Death recognizing the color of the soul of a Belmont right away tells me that, amongst Belmonts, this is a persistent trait AND and inherited trait.

Having said that, I believe that in Harmony we can TOO see the color of his soul. And its blue, as the outline in his sprite shows. Gameplay speaking this blue outline is meant to make the sprite pop BUT Circle of the Moon did the same thing using black. It looks like, to me, that since they had to add an outline, they decided to make it a special color to reflect something, and I think we can agree that it looks like an aura.

On some belief systems, the aura is believed to reflect the color of one's soul. In many of these cases, though, the color is a constantly changing atribute, not a fixed one, that gets altered as the person experiences certain emotions. But in Castlevania, this seems to not be the case, as the Sorrow games have shown. This is also the case in this very cutscene since Death manages to identify the color of Juste's soul even with him displaying a range of different emotions.

Beyond the technical reasons mentioned above (making the sprite pop out), one could argue that this blue outline merely reflects Juste's magic potential, and not in fact his soul - or a soul-reflecting aura. However, Maxim, who is NOT proficient in magic, ALSO has a colored outline. You can see it when you play Maxim Mode, and his aura is red:

(http://i.imgur.com/gFazztR.png)

Finally, Dracula Wraith ALSO has an aura of his own - yellow. Yet, his aura is a glowing one and not static like Juste's or Maxim's. This could suggest a number of things:

-The being/soul inside the being is not yet stabilized with the body, causing the aura to be unstable (and this instability is supported by the Wraith's own dialogue).
-It's not an aura representing the Wraith's soul, but something completelly different (an option I'm not too keen on, but also possible).

And that's it. My conclusion is that the soul of a Belmont is blue, and therefore is a Guardian Type soul. Of course, this conclusion means that Maxim's soul is a Bullet Type, and Dracula Wraith's is an Enchant Type. Curious how they reflect the main Soul Types of the Sorrow games, huh?
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: zangetsu468 on January 22, 2016, 09:59:33 PM
It's interesting evidence. Something to ponder.

Not Dracula Wraith but the actual Dracula's soul could be all 3; as is Dominus.

As for a Belmont's soul, I'm not sure I believe it could be absorbed. Hypothetically one would assume immunity to Holy attacks.

However, we've only seen Dracula/ Mathias absorb souls which he has dominance over. If this was not the case , then he would've tried to absorb Jonathan's/ Charlotte's soul instead of death if he could have. Why? They were stronger than Death and had already defeated him once (assuming optional bosses are canon in this case because Death is a main recurring CV boss), and that would've evened Dracula's odds a lot better against either Jonathan/ Charlotte with a 3-vs-1 scenario.

If Soma won against Julius in AoS' non canon ending, who knows he could've absorbed his soul and been unstoppable.  8)
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: X on January 22, 2016, 11:35:54 PM
I personally don't believe Soma could absorb a human soul as they are not the same as souls of monsters or other misshapen creatures. Dmitrii himself wasn't absorbed by Soma but went willingly into Soma in order to carry out his last ditch effort. Even Soma himself was shocked to believe he gained dominance over a human soul which I'm sure he believed to be impossible, especially since human souls have one thing monsters don't; free will. You can't dominate something that has free will over its own existence unless it allows itself such.

However just for the thread's sake I think Soma's best chance at a powerful Belmont soul would probably be Julius' as he is the most powerful of the Belmonts after Richter.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: Super Waffle on January 23, 2016, 12:40:58 AM
I bet it'd taste like chicken.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on January 23, 2016, 01:03:24 AM
I think it can either be the enchant type or the ability type that grants Soma immunity.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: zangetsu468 on January 23, 2016, 01:25:05 AM
It may result in the scene from the matrix where Smith absorbs Neo and he is defeated :p
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on January 23, 2016, 01:31:50 AM
It may result in the scene from the matrix where Smith absorbs Neo and he is defeated :p

Oh, you mean that scene from a LEAKED SCRIPT of that CANCELLED MOVIE? Yeah, that movie would have been goddamn horrifyingly terrible had it released. #StillInDenial
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: shelverton. on January 23, 2016, 03:16:13 AM
The quote "Your words are as empty as your soul" suddenly seems really inaccurate. Little did Richter know that Dracula has a 3-in-1 soul...
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: zangetsu468 on January 23, 2016, 05:17:49 AM
Interesting that
(click to show/hide)
but I guess that was the point of the ritual, and she wasn't completely tainted yet upon bring struck down. Heart wrenching stuff that :/
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: X on January 23, 2016, 10:53:14 AM
Quote
Interesting that
(click to show/hide)

Maybe it's because she and the vampirekiller are now one and the same entity. Like a soul in a body it can't be taken unless something happens to the 'physical' vessel in question, as the soul would be chained to it. Thus this prevents the powers of the Crimson stone for absorbing Sara's soul.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: theplottwist on January 23, 2016, 03:29:19 PM
Yeah, except that it was Death who stole Walter's soul, not the Crimson Stone. That's why I uphold to this day that Mathias did NOT receive the power of Dominance in Lament, but later when he turned into the Demon King.

Death stole Walter's soul because he was dying, and put it inside the Crimson Stone for Mathias. Death was merely doing what he always does - stealing the soul of dying beings. We've seen Death do that in at least one Game Over screen, and IGA has already said he does that and traps these souls inside candles/turns them into candles.

The Crimson Stone doesn't have soul-stealing powers. It can CONTAIN a soul and use it to power its owner, but not steal one. This is never explicitly stated, of course, but we can infer it doesn't have such powers because, if it had, then Mathias wouldn't need Death to steal Walter's soul for him.

Just watch by yourselves:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIvkKw4EtCU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIvkKw4EtCU)

(Sorry, the video linking is really finicky, so you'll have to watch it on Youtube)

It's interesting evidence. Something to ponder.

Not Dracula Wraith but the actual Dracula's soul could be all 3; as is Dominus.

Could be, but if we go by what the Game Over screen of Dawn of Sorrow is implying - that Death is holding Soma's soul - and Soma's soul is the same as Dracula's, then Dracula's soul is also of the Guardian type:

(http://img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com/df198a59116fd56b0985da8ee0fbedd9/http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t255/Macross16/Castlevania/l_01bb05b1c515649060d29393269f8c09.jpg)

But, of course, this could simply not be Soma's soul. Or it could, but the soul itself underwent some change from its Dracula days to get reincarnated.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: zangetsu468 on January 23, 2016, 05:09:30 PM
The Iga timeline states that "each slain vampire only adds to the growing power of Dracula", which seems to contradict it holding only one soul. (Context being in between LOI>CVIII). Whether it was Death doing that for him at the time is  feasible, he does say that as long as his master (Mathias) survives he can return from the dead.

As for Mathias not having "received/ absorbed" Walter's power, that's not true. There was a thread which discussed this some time ago. I had put it to everyone as to why unless the Castle in LOI had not crumbled when Walter did. At the point his soul was absorbed he was no longer Lord of the Castle, Mathias had taken that Lordship.

-Walter's Soul is absorbed into the Crimson Stone
-Mathias enters, makes it a point to tell Leon about his scheme, etc
-Mathias flees leaving Death to battle Leon
-Upon Death's defeat the castle crumbles

Mathias instructs Death to handle Leon. The castle did not crumble when Mathias entered the throne room, nor when he instructed Death to kill Leon.
Being this is Bernhard Castle (and not Castlevania) it's reasonable to assume that upon Walter's Death, Mathias did indeed take Lordship of his Castle which is why it didn't fall when Walter died. If every slain Vampire attributes to Dracula's power, then I see no reason why the same doesn't apply here, at this moment.

Additionally, Lordship of a castle seems to have to be passed to another Vampire if the original Lord perishes. We see this in both canon and non canon endings in LOI. In the non canon ending where Joachim wins he is seem sitting on the throne and laughing, having defeated Walter and become Lord of his castle. The castle is still intact and has not crumbled because he's chosen Lordship. When Leon defeated Walter the Castle would've crumbled, only his soul went into the Crimson Stone and Mathias assumed the Castle's Lordship, leaving the last battle to Death. With no Vampire to claim Lordship of the castle, it fell apart. Leon could not claim it because he wasn't a Vampire, he didn't have that option.

Therefore, Mathias was already The Lord of the vampires by LOI's ending. He turns into a swarm of bats and flies off. Mathias doesn't one day become "Dracula" by some magical occurrence, it is stated in LOI's ending he goes into foreign Lands and eventually assumes the title of "The Lord of Vampires/ King of the Night" which imo is a reference to the Dracula name. At least the timeline alludes to this. 
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: theplottwist on January 23, 2016, 05:47:10 PM
The Iga timeline states that "each slain vampire only adds to the growing power of Dracula", which seems to contradict it holding only one soul.

If this response is for me, then I don't remember saying the stone can only hold ONE soul. With "contain a soul" I wasn't being literal. I was just describing the stone's abilities.

And if it can only hold ONE soul, then it doesn't really contradict this statement on the timeline. Power doesn't mean only "magical power". If you're a powerful vampire amongst many, with each vampire slain your competition diminishes. The pool of "powerful vampires" gets smaller. Of course you become more powerful.

Quote
As for Mathias not having "received/ absorbed" Walter's power, that's not true.

Again, if this is for me, I don't remember saying anything about Mathias NOT receiving or absorbing Walter's power. What I said is that the stone doesn't have soul-stealing powers, and it was Death who put Walter's soul inside the stone - which belongs to Mathias. Once the soul is inside the stone, of course it becomes property of the stone's owner. Mathias himself says that, even.

But again, the stone itself can't steal souls. It doesn't display such powers, and if it did, then Mathias wouldn't need Death to do it for him.

Quote
Therefore, Mathias was already The Lord of the vampires by LOI's ending. He turns into a swarm of bats and flies off. Mathias doesn't one day become "Dracula" by some magical occurrence, it is stated in LOI's ending he goes into foreign Lands and eventually assumes the title of "The Lord of Vampires/ King of the Night" which imo is a reference to the Dracula name. At least the timeline alludes to this.

Being the lord of the vampires, and being the Dark Lord/Demon King are wildly different things. I'm not disputing when Mathias became the lord of vampires, but I am saying there is no way he became the Dark Lord at the end of LoI.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: zangetsu468 on January 23, 2016, 06:06:53 PM
It specifically does say that each slain vampire's soul adds to the power of Dracula (not Mathias) so it implies to me he took the name long before his war on humanity. That's my opinion. The war on humanity came after. Needing Death to do it for him or not doesn't really make a difference imo. Death can be revived at any time by him. By the time if POR Dracula is obviously strong enough to absorb souls (even Death's) without aide. 

The only difference between Lord of the Vampires and Dark Lord imo is that post-Lisa's death (CVIII) he wages his war on humanity, that's the essential difference. Everything else is white noise.

On a side note if Dracula's soul is absorbed into the CS over and over, it wouldn't be Death doing it for him, in nearly every CV game Death is defeated shortly prior to Dracula. Dracula would be absorbing his own soul over and over again.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: theplottwist on January 23, 2016, 06:16:07 PM
It specifically does say that each slain vampire's soul adds to the power of Dracula (not Mathias) so it implies to me he took the name long before his war on humanity.

Which I'm also not disputing. Dracula had a wife and named his son with "Tepes". Mathias obviously named himself "Dracula" before his war on mankind. Perhaps even centuries before his war on mankind.

The only difference between Lord of the Vampires and Dark Lord imo is that post-Lisa's death (CVIII) he wages his war on humanity, that's the essential difference. Everything else is white noise.

There is a very big difference between both, and being the Demon King is FAR from just "a vampire that wages war on mankind".

On the case of calling himself "Lord of Vampires, King of the Night", it is Mathias who calls himself like that. It's a title. If he has the power to back it up, it still doesn't mean he's the Demon King. It only means he's a very powerful vampire who has named himself the Lord of Vampires.

Now, being the Demon King/Dark Lord is a completelly different beast. It's a position atop the demonic hierarchy granted to the one who possesses the power of Dominance - as seen in Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow. It's a power to rule over ALL demons, not only vampires, by enslaving their souls using said Dominance. As Soma states in Aria, it's "the power to rule", which sends Graham in a flying panic. Having a connection to Chaos is also important, though I don't know to what extent exactly.

If one wants or not to wage war on mankind with this power, it's irrelevant. What makes the Demon King is his will to rule over demons and become the opposite of good - the entire plot which the Sorrow games revolves around. Dmitrii, also, arrives at the same conclusion after learning that one doesn't need to be Dracula to be the Dark Lord, he only needs the Dominance, and to gain control over demons with it.

The japanese term (魔王 Maō) used to name Dracula is the same term for "Satan", btw, which caused some mishaps as translating the "Dark Lord Ring" as "Satan's Ring" and causing people to believe there actually is a Satan to whom Dracula responds to, when in fact the ring belongs to Dracula, and he responds to no one.

The manual for The Adventure (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cvgb1/documents/CVAJ.txt) also makes a clear distinction between Dracula as a powerful vampire sorcerer and as a Demon King.

Quote
On a side note if Dracula's soul is absorbed into the CS over and over, it wouldn't be Death doing it for him, in nearly every CV game Death is defeated shortly prior to Dracula. Dracula would be absorbing his own soul over and over again.

I don't know where did you get that Dracula's soul is absorbed into the Crimson Stone over and over, but IGA has already said when Dracula is defeated, his soul is sent to the Makai (Demon Realm).
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: zangetsu468 on January 23, 2016, 07:35:52 PM
Which was why I said "if" as this was thought to be the case some time ago by certain theorists. Just because it is in the makai, doesn't mean it can't be absorbed by him with the stone upon re-entry to the human realm. Anythings possible, some people are inside the box, others are outside playing a little game of what-if..

OOE may shows us this with the vessel that contains Dracula's soul. By that logic it can't be in the "makai" but be in a vessel, yet here we are. Or if one believes it can, then this is no different from being in a stone and in the makai, ya dig.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: theplottwist on January 23, 2016, 07:45:14 PM
Which was why I said "if" as this was thought to be the case some time ago by certain theorists. Just because it is in the makai, doesn't mean it can't be absorbed by him with the stone upon re-entry to the human realm. Anythings possible, some people are inside the box, others are outside playing a little game of what-if..

OOE may shows us this with the vessel that contains Dracula's soul. By that logic it can't be in the "makai" but be in a vessel, yet here we are. Or if one believes it can, then this is no different from being in a stone and in the makai, ya dig.

The last to defeat Dracula before OoE was Alucard. In the Audio Drama description for Alucard it's stated that he sealed Dracula. This could be why Dracula is sealed inside that vessel. The fact that Dracula's remains also are in that vessel, and that they were last seen in Alucard's possession gives credence to this.

If it's inside a stone vessel, then it obviously is not in the Demon Realm. It appears that getting sealed inside that stone vessel is NOT something that seems to occur naturally to Dracula's soul.

I thought it was logical to think that IF something doesn't happen to this soul (such as being sealed in a stone vessel), then the natural course of things dictates that this soul be sent to the Demon Realm. This is what I understood by IGA's statement, anyway.

Because it is sealed in that vessel in OoE, doesn't mean it ALWAYS gets sealed in a vessel every time.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: zangetsu468 on January 23, 2016, 08:39:42 PM
I'm not sure why if Alucard s Dracula in SOTN why would he need to 'seal Dracula/ his remains"?
I'm assuming by remains it's referring to the relics named after Dracula such as "heart of Vlad"
It doesn't make sense Alucard would need to seal Dracula after the final battle, as Alucard Richter and Maria all leave.

I always assumed since you need those relics to enter the final room they actually had something to do with Dracula's resurrection. In that case, having Dracula's remains after the final battle wouldn't make sense. OOE also doesn't mention Dracula's remains, it mentions Ecclesia/ Barlowe having the vessel to Dracula's soul, which Barlowe initially believes can only be broken with Dominus. I don't recall remains being mentioned per se.

Is this radio thing even canon?



'
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: theplottwist on January 23, 2016, 08:54:51 PM
Quote
I'm not sure why if Alucard s Dracula in SOTN why would he need to 'seal Dracula/ his remains"?

There is something missing there, I believe it's the word "defeats".

Well, Alucard wants to rid the world from his father. Makes perfect sense for him to actually seal Dracula in a form where he can't be revived, or seal Dracula's remains somewhere where nobody can touch them without an enormous effort.

Quote
It doesn't make sense Alucard would need to seal Dracula after the final battle, as Alucard Richter and Maria all leave.

To me, it does. We have no idea what happened offscreen, sealing Dracula's remains and soul in a vessel could be one such thing.

OOE also doesn't mention Dracula's remains, it mentions Ecclesia/ Barlowe having the vessel to Dracula's soul, which Barlowe initially believes can only be broken with Dominus. I don't recall remains being mentioned per se.

Albus: Half-right. But think about it: where does a Glyph's power come from?  Nothing comes from nothing, after all. What do you suppose Barlowe used to create his precious [Dominus]?

Shanoa: Hmph... What?

Albus: They used [Dracula], Shanoa. [Dominus] is made from his remains. That's HIS power. Nothing less.

Shanoa: [Dominus] is...? It can't be true.


Quote
Is this radio thing even canon?

I believe it is, since it had the supervision of IGA and deals with/references events imediatelly following Symphony of the Night. It's not present in any official timeline, however. But so is the case with Order of Ecclesia.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: zangetsu468 on January 23, 2016, 09:06:14 PM
... It can't be true?

Good finds  :)
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: Nagumo on January 24, 2016, 04:25:24 AM
These type of discussion always makes me want to check out the Japanese dialogue of the games. And as usual my detective work shed some light on a certain matter. The ending narration from LoI simply says Dracula eventually called himself Maō and Devil (Dracula). They fancied up the English translation a little bit by giving Mathias these two fancy titles. However, I do think this doesn't make plottwist's point invalid. Everybody assumes the bit that says Mathias becomes the Dark Lord took place inbetween LoI and CV3, with a large chunck of time before and after, but this event might very well have taken place shortly before the latter. In fact, it makes more sense that way to me.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: TatteredSeraph on January 24, 2016, 05:49:37 AM
These type of discussion always makes me want to check out the Japanese dialogue of the games. And as usual my detective work shed some light on a certain matter. The ending narration from LoI simply says Dracula eventually called himself Maō and Devil (Dracula).

Technically, 'Dracula' means 'Son of the Devil'/'Son of the Dragon'.  It's interesting though to see the differences.  Thanks! :)
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: zangetsu468 on January 24, 2016, 05:59:02 AM
So are we all in agreement then that the English version is never canon, ever? Even if there's a FIRE!
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: theplottwist on January 24, 2016, 01:06:53 PM
These type of discussion always makes me want to check out the Japanese dialogue of the games. And as usual my detective work shed some light on a certain matter. The ending narration from LoI simply says Dracula eventually called himself Maō and Devil (Dracula). They fancied up the English translation a little bit by giving Mathias these two fancy titles. However, I do think this doesn't make plottwist's point invalid. Everybody assumes the bit that says Mathias becomes the Dark Lord took place inbetween LoI and CV3, with a large chunck of time before and after, but this event might very well have taken place shortly before the latter. In fact, it makes more sense that way to me.

I'll end up getting a sum of money to pay you and Shiroi to translate everything from A to Z in these games. I really do not understand why in freaking hell these localization teams keep getting these details wrong or adding unecessary flourishes to them. Changing this ONE line in english changed the whole idea.

But yeah, if he ended as the Dark Lord, it makes more sense to be just before Castlevania III. This is in accordance with Castlevania III itself and The Adventure (and maybe with Curse of Darkness, too), as they do mention Dracula's turning into the Devil happening just before his war on mankind.

So are we all in agreement then that the English version is never canon, ever? Even if there's a FIRE!

Seems to be the case. The localization team seem to never respect the true intention of the creators when it comes to Castlevania, after all.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: zangetsu468 on January 24, 2016, 07:31:41 PM
Seems to be the case. The localization team seem to never respect the true intention of the creators when it comes to Castlevania, after all.

This is why for every game with an ounce of story, the original Japanese version (voices, script, etc) with properly translated English should be made available. That or don't butcher the canon.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: theplottwist on January 24, 2016, 08:14:17 PM
I like to think of Dracula as what happens to Soma in the bad ending of Dawn.

He had the potential to become the Dark Lord, but wouldn't do it. He'd walk in the edge of becoming evil incarnate, but not do it for the little bit of humanity that still existed inside him - humanity that led him to open his heart for Lisa.

But just as Lisa is killed, Dracula loses his shit and climbs that last little step that was keeping him from becoming the Dark Lord. Just like Soma does upon witnessing "Mina" die by Celia's hand.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: Dracula9 on January 24, 2016, 08:37:54 PM
I like to think of Dracula as what happens to Soma in the bad ending of Dawn.

He had the potential to become the Dark Lord, but wouldn't do it. He'd walk in the edge of becoming evil incarnate, but not do it for the little bit of humanity that still existed inside him - humanity that led him to open his heart for Lisa.

But just as Lisa is killed, Dracula loses his shit and climbs that last little step that was keeping him from becoming the Dark Lord. Just like Soma does upon witnessing "Mina" die by Celia's hand.

I actually have this long-time desire to do an animation of Dracula going berserk and attacking the village that executed Lisa, butchering every single person there and razing the place to the ground, with the final shot being him finding and holding her charred body and shedding the last of his tears amidst flames and carnage.

Just when I've almost forgotten it, something always brings it back to memory, though this time was pretty straightforward.

Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: Belmontoya on January 24, 2016, 08:46:10 PM
Do it. But with Sandlers Dracula.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: theplottwist on January 24, 2016, 08:53:46 PM
I actually have this long-time desire to do an animation of Dracula going berserk and attacking the village that executed Lisa, butchering every single person there and razing the place to the ground, with the final shot being him finding and holding her charred body and shedding the last of his tears amidst flames and carnage.

Just when I've almost forgotten it, something always brings it back to memory, though this time was pretty straightforward.

I wonder what was Dracula doing that he missed the big public-execution commotion happening right in the middle of the village. We know that Alucard was there, tho.

I always had this lingering suspicion that Dracula was manipulated into becoming the dark lord, and the burning of Lisa was part of the plan. It's way too convenient for Dracula to simply miss the burning of his wife at the stake. Plus, if I were Dracula, I'd keep my wife protected by at least two familiars so if shit goes down, they protect her and I can come to the rescue.

There wasn't a SINGLE Peeping Eye watching the town, nothing! Dracula, being the all-powerful teleporting vampire he is, failed to rescue her in time.

Someone conspired to turn Dracula into the Demon King, I'm telling you!  :rollseyes:
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: Dracula9 on January 24, 2016, 09:16:31 PM
Do it. But with Sandlers Dracula.

Please god no, lol.

The way I always had it in my head, it'd be SotN Dracula (since Kojima did do that one piece of he and Lisa together), but there'd not be a word of dialogue. The entire thing would basically be a music video for some CV song I used to have in mind but forgot a while back. I think it was Tragic Prince. Can't remember.

I wonder what was Dracula doing that he missed the big public-execution commotion happening right in the middle of the village. We know that Alucard was there, tho.

I always had this lingering suspicion that Dracula was manipulated into becoming the dark lord, and the burning of Lisa was part of the plan. It's way too convenient for Dracula to simply miss the burning of his wife at the stake. Plus, if I were Dracula, I'd keep my wife protected by at least two familiars so if shit goes down, they protect her and I can come to the rescue.

There wasn't a SINGLE Peeping Eye watching the town, nothing! Dracula, being the all-powerful teleporting vampire he is, failed to rescue her in time.

Someone conspired to turn Dracula into the Demon King, I'm telling you!  :rollseyes:

Well, going off of your theory of Dracula still being somewhat trusting of humanity at this time (something I've also held to), it's been my idea for said animation for him to basically just be hanging out in the Castle doing whatever he did before sitting on his throne all the time, and one of said hidden guardian familiars (since they'd have to be discreet, as being seen would cause an uproar; perhaps this was a factor in Lisa's being viewed as a witch, one of her protective familiars slipped up and was spotted?) reports the situation to him.

Dracula might be super powerful, but his powers of teleportation don't seem to great as to traverse literal miles in an instant. Since turning to bats is generally his mode of fast travel, he'd still have to fly that distance in realtime.

Once realizing what was happening, he'd dismiss all of his servants, so as to handle the situation himself.

After all, what good is vengeance if you don't deliver the finishing blows yourself?
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: zangetsu468 on January 24, 2016, 10:04:18 PM
I wonder what was Dracula doing that he missed the big public-execution commotion happening right in the middle of the village. We know that Alucard was there, tho.

I always had this lingering suspicion that Dracula was manipulated into becoming the dark lord, and the burning of Lisa was part of the plan. It's way too convenient for Dracula to simply miss the burning of his wife at the stake.

All of a sudden, Dracula Unleashed becomes part of people's head canon.. (*waits for slow clap*)

In all seriousness, Dracula wages his war on humanity in 1476. Although it is unclear exactly when, Lisa dies shortly before this, be it days, months, or a short number years.

If this 'Dracula' really did take the throne of Wallachia at some point, is it any coincidence that the real figure of Vlad 3 just happened to die supposedly between late 1476 - early 1477? This is exactly why I believe if we assume Vlad III (in the CV universe) dies in 1476, Dracula uses Vlad's death to his advantage and claims the throne at this time, assumes the name Vlad (as per SOTN's manual) and "Tepes" as his last name. This spawns the historical resurrection myth of "Dracula". Because Alucard is still alive, he also assumes his father's last name Tepes. This is also why SOTN's manual does not refer to any such figure known as "Lisa Tepes". With the throne in hand, Dracula starts massacring the people who murdered his wife, as well as fighting wars with the Ottoman empire.

Where was he when Lisa died? Probably practicing dark magic or turning/ killing as many vampires as he could to build up his power. If there was no Vlad III, historically, then I would assume he had still assumed the throne somehow and was fighting wars and leading his army as a king and a tactician (as he previously did) when Lisa was murdered. 
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: Nagumo on January 25, 2016, 12:42:51 AM
I like to think of Dracula as what happens to Soma in the bad ending of Dawn.

He had the potential to become the Dark Lord, but wouldn't do it. He'd walk in the edge of becoming evil incarnate, but not do it for the little bit of humanity that still existed inside him - humanity that led him to open his heart for Lisa.

But just as Lisa is killed, Dracula loses his shit and climbs that last little step that was keeping him from becoming the Dark Lord. Just like Soma does upon witnessing "Mina" die by Celia's hand.

I actually found something that ties into this pretty nicely. In the "Encyclopedia of Castlevania", it says Dracula became a vampire because of wife's death, he then met Lisa, etc. Then it says: "Once more [Dracula] regained his human heart".  Also note Alucard has also been said to have a human heart. It then says Lisa died due to the witch trails, and Dracula becomes the Dark Lord who starts his war on humanity. So I interpret this to say Dracula actually became or was becoming a good guy again because of his love for Lisa. In a sense, it seems like it's going to be a redemption story for Dracula, but then everything goes to hell. I like that story dynamic.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: zangetsu468 on January 25, 2016, 01:04:23 AM
I actually found something that ties into this pretty nicely. In the "Encyclopedia of Castlevania", it says Dracula became a vampire because of wife's death, he then met Lisa, etc. Then it says: "Once more [Dracula] regained his human heart".
Isn't it strange that Brauner also became a Vampire due to his daughters' deaths, albeit under different circumstances.

Also note Alucard has also been said to have a human heart. It then says Lisa died due to the witch trails, and Dracula becomes the Dark Lord who starts his war on humanity. So I interpret this to say Dracula actually became or was becoming a good guy again because of his love for Lisa. In a sense, it seems like it's going to be a redemption story for Dracula
So he may have stopped cursing God for a while then. Since LOI's premise of Mathias' vampirism was to live and curse God eternally, maybe he stopped all of that when he and Lisa met. This would also explain why Lisa wasn't so freaked out by all of his vampiric and occult activities. Maybe he toned it right down or stopped altogether for her. Sotn's manual does mention that "for some reason he [Dracula] has chosen not to take away her [Lisa's] human form".

but then everything goes to hell. I like that story dynamic.
Reminding me of Berserk a lot. Love it.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on January 25, 2016, 01:55:33 AM
I'll end up getting a sum of money to pay you and Shiroi to translate everything from A to Z in these games. I really do not understand why in freaking hell these localization teams keep getting these details wrong or adding unecessary flourishes to them. Changing this ONE line in english changed the whole idea.

The localization team seem to never respect the true intention of the creators when it comes to Castlevania, after all.

I would gladly translate if there's money involved.  ;D
I know how game translation works. They give out an excel spreadsheet of data (these are just data dumps and most likely not arranged in order) and the translator has to translate from there (no need for prior knowledge of whatever you're translating). You know how things could go very wrong with that method.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: Nagumo on January 25, 2016, 06:29:09 AM
I wonder what was Dracula doing that he missed the big public-execution commotion happening right in the middle of the village. We know that Alucard was there, tho.

I found the answer to this, too. Dracula's profile on the Japanese CoD website mentions the accident happen during the middle of the day, during which Dracula's power is diminished. Presumably, the fact that he couldn't go out in the sunglight also played a part in it. 
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: Donvermicelli on January 25, 2016, 07:20:58 AM
I found the answer to this, too. Dracula's profile on the Japanese CoD website mentions the accident happen during the middle of the day, during which Dracula's power is diminished. Presumably, the fact that he couldn't go out in the sunglight also played a part in it.

Without any prior knowledge of this page I did always assume the events described to be the case. It would not have made any sense otherwise. It is however interesting to note that Alucard is not affected by sunlight like his father is.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: theplottwist on January 25, 2016, 01:21:55 PM
I found the answer to this, too. Dracula's profile on the Japanese CoD website mentions the accident happen during the middle of the day, during which Dracula's power is diminished. Presumably, the fact that he couldn't go out in the sunglight also played a part in it.

Yep. Much more obvious than I expected. I forgot Dracula couldn't pull off his "covering the sun" shenanigans back then.
Title: Re: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?
Post by: Dracula9 on January 25, 2016, 01:42:49 PM
Without any prior knowledge of this page I did always assume the events described to be the case. It would not have made any sense otherwise. It is however interesting to note that Alucard is not affected by sunlight like his father is.

It's a pretty common thing for dhampirs to have some measure of sunlight immunity. Usually they're either able to walk in it freely without consequence, or it just takes a lot longer for it to wear on them, at which point they just get really worn out rather than catch fire.