I said you’d be fed. I never said who I’d be feeding you to.
BLAAAAARG OMNOMNOMNOM
(Graham didn't really exhibit any Dark Lord powers until after he stabbed Yoko, for instance).
And we don't know how Walter assumed that mantle either
Clearly Chaos (for whatever reason) views Soma as the ideal heir (having something to do with being the reincarnated soul of Mathias probably has something to do with it) but anyone willing to go the evil distance of evil is likely an acceptable substitute.
And with this, he managed to build what is described to be a religion. It grew to such enormous numbers that these followers' bodies were used to compose an entire replica of Dracula's Castle, and there were still a lot of people left.Constructed from living or dead followers? #legioncastledracula ?
This bit is true. The only TRUE requirement for one to become the Dark Lord is the willingness to take over the forces of evil - namely, conquering demons.
Constructed from living or dead followers? #legioncastledracula ?
This wouldn't happen to be the towering replica of Dracula's Castle from Dawn would it?
This is exactly what the castle is called on the novel. I'm not even kidding.Does it sound any less ridiculous in Japanese? :V
This is exactly what the castle is called on the novel. I'm not even kidding.
Nope. This is another replica.
(Graham didn't really exhibit any Dark Lord powers until after he stabbed Yoko, for instance).He surely had some sort of power to survive in this castle full of demons alone, while being able to come close and stab a powerful spellcaster (surely he could've used some kind of deception to come closer and stab Yoko, like pretending to surrender, but the same kind can't be done with demons unless he did MGS tactics lol)
And we don't know how Walter assumed that mantle either
Clearly Chaos (for whatever reason) views Soma as the ideal heir (having something to do with being the reincarnated soul of Mathias probably has something to do with it), but anyone willing to go the evil distance of evil is likely an acceptable substitute.
Does it sound any less ridiculous in Japanese? :V
Does it sound any less ridiculous in Japanese? :V
It happens on the novel? I still have to read it (and would appreciate a direct link :P)
You should thank Shiroi for that. This novel has very important information concerning the lore of the Sorrow saga. It even clarifies that monsters are born out of Chaos (including Death) - which is born from mankind. But beware - the way the story is told can get quite confusing sometimes, where you don't even know who is speaking or what do they mean by what they said. I had to stop translating this to portuguese at a certain point because I was simply not understanding specific sections (I did understand them later but I'm too lazy...).
http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,6118.0.html (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,6118.0.html)
He surely had some sort of power to survive in this castle full of demons alone
I always thought it was a questionable fashion sense that made on a Candidate.
He doesn't need special powers to survive; he just needs to be armed.
B-but Graham looks so fly, D9-san.
FYI I always thought Graham resembled a well-dressed televangelist.
It is HILARIOUS to see Soma Cruz walk into Dracula's Castle in his fluffy fur-trimmed white coat and Bell-Bottom-esque cut jeans and scream "NAH-UH! THIS IS HOW WE ROLL IN MAH NEIGHBORHOOD BITCH!!" and blow monsters away Projects-style.
I always thought it was a questionable fashion sense that made on a Candidate.
I thought Soma's fashion sense and hair was much better in AoS... He literally went from 'Mathias Jackson' to "Johnny Out-of-his-Deppth" ???
I think that "power" might have been a gun -- Aria itself demonstrates that firearms are effective weapons against the legions of Chaos, and I'm not just talking the game-breakingly uberpowered Positron Rifle either. That handgund that Soma can pick up (a 9 mil too!) can seriously dish out the hurt to even boss level characters when used properly.
In the novel, the castle itself is referred to as "Legion" AND as a replica of Dracula's castle (initially thought to be the true castle). Not only it is composed from the bodies of the many Graham followers, but it actually comes alive at a certain point to try to kill the protagonists.
Are you mocking the pimp coat?
Shiroi, who takes part in the final battle?
If it is Julius is he still in his "Jamnesia" state at that time, which means he didn't have the VK?
Actually I think Kojima made Soma wear that coat due to the fact that it somehow mirrors Matthias' robes in LoI. Dat fur!
What marks a person as a Dark Lord Candidate?
I think this pertains to someone who taps into the darkness in their own hearts beyond what is normally capable of. They push it to the breaking point until they become something other then a mere human being. Kinda like forcing a type of evolution on yourself, but one that's unnatural.
You think that it is what happened with Brauner? They seem to explain something similar.
Yeah, exactly. The relevant line is as follows: "The father of Stella and Loretta, and an artist who became a vampire during the course of World War I."
I wonder whether Dracula or Brauner would have been more dangerous in that role by that point in time.
In Richter's case, the power of a Belmont, the skill of one of their strongest descendents, and Shaft's partly magical, partly psychological more than mind control (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoreThanMindControl) had the potential to create an even stronger Dark Lord than Dracula. Fortunate then that Maria and Alucard were able to break Shaft's active corruption when they did.
OK an important point here: Richter wasn't meant to be turned into the Dark Lord, but to be a sacrifice for Dracula. He was placed as a guard so Shaft could do the preparations, and ultimatelly sacrifice him. This is better clarified in the japanese version of SotN and in the PSP script rewrite. Alucard saved Richter from becoming a sacrifice, so Shaft simply modified his plans a little and decided to sacrifice Alucard's human side instead.
Well dammit. Guess I should have seen that coming. Back to the original plan then. Only this time I don't have my awesome Belmont sacrifice, so instead I'll sacrifice half of Alucard's DNA (somehow; memo: work on gene splitting magic) and half his soul (again, memo: work on soul-splitting magic. Maybe Zobek in that next universe over knows a trick or two about that. Inquire. After I have developed inter-universe communication). Surely that will bring Dracula back. Oh wait he came back anyway, and I am killed by Alucard. Curses. Foiled again. Except totally not really. I am awesome.
OK an important point here: Richter wasn't meant to be turned into the Dark Lord, but to be a sacrifice for Dracula. He was placed as a guard so Shaft could do the preparations, and ultimatelly sacrifice him. This is better clarified in the japanese version of SotN and in the PSP script rewrite. Alucard saved Richter from becoming a sacrifice, so Shaft simply modified his plans a little and decided to sacrifice Alucard's human side instead.
If that was the real Richter fighting Alucard he could've just fucking killed him easily. The guy killed a CR Dracula just a few years before and was still in his prime.
Levelling up isn't a canon set of events though.
Things like Alucard acquiring his abilities and even certain specific weapons or key items such as relic, holy glasses etc is.
There's no true indication of how levelled up one can get, if at all.
Of course if the game is longer and you get the better ending then presumably your warrior would be more skilled.
Levelling up isn't a canon set of events though.
Things like Alucard acquiring his abilities and even certain specific weapons or key items such as relic, holy glasses etc is.
There's no true indication of how levelled up one can get, if at all.
Of course if the game is longer and you get the better ending then presumably your warrior would be more skilled.
Alucard knew now that he had been a fool. It had been absurd to think that he could have taken on the man who had defeated his father -- Alucard hadn't even come close himself to being as strong as Dracula. Crawling away from the battle, bleeding and half dead, he sought a place of refuge where he could rest. He needed to mend his wounds. His fairy, a true companion, loyal from the start, tugged at his cloak trying in vain to help her best friend and master to a place where healing could begin. Alucard knew she didn't have the physical strength to actually help him move faster, but he smiled a weak smile, appreciating the efforts she made for him.
He knew why Richter wasn't chasing him. Richter had said it himself. He wanted worthier opponents. Someone to test himself against. Alucard hadn't been it. Not by a long shot.
He fumed.
"What was I thinking?!" Alucard groaned through his teeth, pulling himself into one of the many tombs he'd found throughout the castle.
In truth, he knew exactly what he'd been thinking. He'd overestimated his abilities. He'd fought a Belmont before, so very long ago. He'd overcome every challenge so far, and he'd gotten cocky. What's more, he had wanted to finish this quickly, and that eagerness had blinded him to Richter's abilities. It was a fool's call, a rookie mistake that he'd thought he'd long outgrown the capacity for.
The Belmont was just as strong, maybe even more so, as on the day he'd struck down Dracula.
Alucard sighed as he clambered into the coffin. He would rest for now, lick his wounds. And once he was recovered, he would find that girl, Maria. She seemed to know something that she hadn't let on before, and it was more imperative than ever that she tell him exactly what it was she knew, that she assist him any way she could. But even that wouldn't be enough. There would be nothing she could say to Alucard that would close that gap between his skills and Richter's.
For that to happen, Alucard would need to push himself. He needed to be faster, stronger. The only way that was going to happen was going to be by pitting himself against the legions of the castle, by besting stronger opponents than the ones he'd already overcome. There had been some relics that had unlocked some of his latent powers as well. With luck, he would find more of them, and that might give him that last bit of extra edge that he needed to win.
He'd been overconfident this time, and had paid the price.
But, if Richter wanted a worthy opponent, then with God as his witness, Alucard was going to make sure he would be that worthy opponent.
No one else was rising up to do it. Maria had to be tough to survive this Castle by herself as she had been doing, but Alucard honestly couldn't envision her being of much help against Richter. The Belmont was like her big brother, after all. Alucard would never ask a lady to strike her brother, blood relation or not. He would have to face Richter again, and he would have to do so alone.
With that thought repeating in his head, Alucard sealed the coffin, and prepared to rest and recover. He would awaken in a few hours, refreshed and recuperated for the search for Maria.
Next time, he'd be ready.
And next time, the Belmont wouldn't see it coming.
Getting away from Shaft's INTENT, would we agree that, sans a Dracula resurrection, the Castle would accept a corrupted Richter as Dark Lord?
Levelling up isn't a canon set of events though.
Things like Alucard acquiring his abilities and even certain specific weapons or key items such as relic, holy glasses etc is.
There's no true indication of how levelled up one can get, if at all.
Of course if the game is longer and you get the better ending then presumably your warrior would be more skilled.
Lets not forget that Castlevania isn't a simple building and seems to be kinda sentient, since it is loyal to Dracula unless he doesn't desire to rule it. In Portrait of Ruin if I understood it right, it was the castle that resurrected Dracula and not Brauner.
Nope, because a Dark Lord already exists and its named Dracula
with a dark priest clearly desiring for his ressurection, while controlling Richter Belmont.
I also think that leveling up isn't canon, key items and some relics are.
Occam's razor prevails.
Again, you guys LOVE to see patterns where none need exist; Richter isn't being directly controlled because he doesn't have to be. Why directly control when simply influencing them will do just as well or better? Shaft isn't going to spring for the most resource and time-intensive method if he doesn't have to.
You argued earlier about Richter's strength and skill trumping Alucard's yet somehow Alucard prevailed.
We are not actually arguing.
Death does it. He even says so after he kills Brauner. The castle is oddly passive in all appearances, its only real ability seeming to be resurrecting along with Dracula and being some sort of location where evil spirits gather (very likely both traits cause each other in a metaphysical paradox).
Who is dead and in no condition to affect ANYTHING at the time.
Shaft never says he's outright controlling Richter. He admits to influencing, which is easy enough and he probably could have done so without magic (never underestimate an evil psychiatrist) but he was never in 1 to 1 control of Richter's actions -- Shaft may be powerful and talented but in order to assume direct control of every little thing a man does requires that all your attention be paid to that man unless he just kind of stows Richter in a cupboard when he's not using him. If you aren't paying attention to your remote control car, you're not controlling it and it will crash.
Shaft would only do what was needed to ensure Richter stayed the course and remained under the effects of indoctrination, but would have left him a certain degree of autonomy so he could focus on other designs. Furthermore, Shaft is not Richter, and doesn't have Richter's skills. To assume direct 1 to 1 command of Richter's actions would compromise his usefulness as Shaft would never be able to control Richter as effectively in a fight as Richter could himself.
Again, you guys LOVE to see patterns where none need exist; Richter isn't being directly controlled because he doesn't have to be. Why directly control when simply influencing them will do just as well or better? Shaft isn't going to spring for the most resource and time-intensive method if he doesn't have to.
All of the rationale that Richter gives Alucard was Richter talking -- Shaft didn't make him say a word of it. Richter was in control, but that isn't to say he was in his right mind; he definitely wasn't. His decision making and reasoning has clearly been compromised, but Shaft is a tactical thinker and he doesn't have the benefit of his cult anymore. He's doing all of this more or less by himself. Ghost or not, in order to revive Dracula AND keep Richter under control, this demands he divide his attention, so giving Richter as much autonomy as possible makes perfect logical and tactical sense. Meatpuppeting the Belmont (dibs on that as a band name, btw) makes absolutely zero sense as it leaves Shaft no capacity to actually revive Dracula.
Ironically, the only instance in which turning Richter into a remotely controlled puppet benefits Shaft is if my theory is correct, and he decides late in his plan to simply make Richter the new Dark Lord.
DID NOBODY READ MY POST ON THIS?!
The shame and the guilt of that would eat away at Richter, and easily provoke a "what have I done" the moment he regained his lucidity.
Rather like Dracula would also do at the end of the game.
But you've all read my topic on that as well.
Shaft never says he's outright controlling Richter. He admits to influencing, which is easy enough and he probably could have done so without magic (never underestimate an evil psychiatrist) but he was never in 1 to 1 control of Richter's actions -- Shaft may be powerful and talented but in order to assume direct control of every little thing a man does requires that all your attention be paid to that man unless he just kind of stows Richter in a cupboard when he's not using him. If you aren't paying attention to your remote control car, you're not controlling it and it will crash.
Shaft would only do what was needed to ensure Richter stayed the course and remained under the effects of indoctrination, but would have left him a certain degree of autonomy so he could focus on other designs. Furthermore, Shaft is not Richter, and doesn't have Richter's skills. To assume direct 1 to 1 command of Richter's actions would compromise his usefulness as Shaft would never be able to control Richter as effectively in a fight as Richter could himself.
Again, you guys LOVE to see patterns where none need exist; Richter isn't being directly controlled because he doesn't have to be.
Meatpuppeting the Belmont (dibs on that as a band name, btw) makes absolutely zero sense as it leaves Shaft no capacity to actually revive Dracula.
A metaphysical expression meant to discuss whether God could be proven by reason alone, and has little if anything to do on the concept of Gameplay and Story Segregation, which the save points would fall under.
About entrances to chaos, Castlevania allows it because its a "spiritual world" as said by Arikado and a stream of chaos exist, maybe sending energy to the castle and Dracula, as shown here:
So we can deduce that its impossible to reach chaos without a similar spiritual world, this place also needs to already be connected to chaos and you will need to be allowed. If I understood it right it was only possible to Soma reach chaos because Castlevania is a reflection of Dracula's spirit (Harmony of Dissonance and the novel only implies even more that it reflects the soul or will of who invokes it) that was connected by chaos already. So if we think this way, anyone, anywhere, can reach chaos spiritually (maybe meditating?).
Death could traverse to chaos physically like Soma could in Castlevania and recharge his batteries because well... Its fucking Death, he can traverse through dimensions and the spiritual world easily since its part of his job.
OK I think you misunderstood this line.
Arikado's point is that the castle is made from Dracula's magic, which in turn comes from chaos -- therefore it is a spiritual world.
So, if it is made from chaos, then there is an entrance to chaos that feeds the castle's existence. The entrance to chaos is not because "it's a spiritual world" but because it is made from chaos which turns it into a spiritual world. It's the other way around.
I'm thinking he doesn't need to "traverse". It's more like he's connected to it and the stream of energy is constant. Once he's defeated, as its said in the novel, his soul sinks into chaos to be reborn later when Dracula's return draws near.
Also, Death is not THE concept of death given enbodiment. Death is a creature born from the human-death portion of chaos (again explained in the novel) and is a Shinigami - he can get people to die, but he can't exactly kill you if you resist. Against THE concept of death as a natural ocurrence there is nothing you can do.
Just wanted to point these things out.
Death silently started moving towards the center of darkness.
He swore allegiance to his master in the distant past.
Now, he has to carry out his allegiance and in preparation for that, he allowed himself to fill up with darkness.
Except I think not. Yes its power comes from chaos, but before it passes by Dracula since Arikado says "This castle is a product of Dracula's magic." like you said before, if we take the entire conversation instead of line by line we can see that Soma doesn't go cut the connection of chaos with the castle, he goes cut the connection of chaos with his own soul. If by cutting the connection with the castle also cuts the connection with his soul it means that the castle is a reflection of his soul! :P
edit: citations from the novel (since mentioning but doesn't showing material doesn't helps much, its novel is huge after all)
“Dracula’s castle, in other words is the embodiment of Dracula’s magic, a part of his soul and body, their belief in them being [fallen] and a part of [Genesis}.”
“What have you misunderstood? I am Death. Human death only comprises a part of chaos..."
Sure, Soma went to cut himself off from chaos, but I don't believe the rest is correct. The castle is clearly shown to be an independent entity from Dracula. So much so that Dracula got separated from the castle in 1999 and the castle kept existing. It's existence doesn't depend on Dracula, it depends on chaos. Cutting Dracula's soul from chaos doesn't cut the castle from chaos.
When Soma cuts the connection between the "evil spirit" and chaos, the castle ceases existing not because "the connection between the castle and chaos was severed", it wasnt. It disappeared because it was resealed in the eclipse by members of the church. If you check the Library in Dawn of Sorrow, it says that the castle is still inside the eclipse waiting for a new master. In the novel, it says right at the beginning that it was resealed right after Soma cut the connection between himself and chaos.
TL;DR: The castle disappearing at the end of Aria is not a consequence of Soma cutting off the connection with chaos. It is simply the castle being resealed inside the eclipse.
OK, the first citation is not an explanation of what the castle is. It is explaining the belief held by Graham's cult that lead them to become a literal part of the Legion castle. They believed that, if the castle was whole again, THEN his body and soul would return (as Graham, no less) because their belief is that the castle is a part of his body and soul.
And we know they were wrong -- Aria proves it by showing that even with the castle back, Dracula's "body and soul" are not. They exist as separate entities. EVEN THOUGH I agree that the castle is a manifestation of Dracula's magic and is a reflection of his will (and maybe his soul too, why not), I do not agree the castle is "part of his soul" as in "it depends on Dracula's soul to exist". It does not. The castle was separated from Dracula before, and it still existed just fine.
The complete quote:(click to show/hide)
The second quote, about Death, doesn't imply Death is the embodiment of the concept of death of all things. It implies Death was born from the "human death" part that comprises part of chaos. Like "Paranoia" was probably born out of the "human paranoia" part that comprises chaos.
This explains why Death intends on influencing humans towards death (as a Shinigami does in japanese culture), and not that Death is death as the natural concept.
We don't know if the castle crumbled or not at 1999