The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Fan Stuff => Topic started by: dejawolf on March 31, 2016, 10:15:52 AM
Title: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on March 31, 2016, 10:15:52 AM
made Castlevania level 1 in unreal.
erk, just noticed there already was a thread in here.
originally i was going to release this level for free when i reached 10k views, but the video blew past that pretty spectacularly already. so i'm just looking for places to upload it, which i'll do over the weekend. i also promised making level 2, and also release the project code at 100k views, so other people could take a stab at making levels with this project, and it's currently at 90k views.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on April 01, 2016, 01:37:59 PM
here's the download link to level 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8sYuD095SlsN2hfWVNvTUxJTkE/view?usp=sharing
uploading the code as well.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on April 01, 2016, 01:53:57 PM
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on April 01, 2016, 02:29:47 PM
So we can try out your game then? Sweet!
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on April 01, 2016, 02:37:27 PM
sure go ahead. just tell me about any problems and bugs. oh btw, it'll ask for network access, deny it. when i started building the game unreal built on network code, but i'll be looking into ways to remove that.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on April 01, 2016, 03:23:08 PM
I just gave it a shot and it is a nice translation for the most part. However my machine started to suffer from lag when I stepped into the castle. I was losing FPS like crazy and this was effecting the gameplay. I think the game (even if it's just one stage) might be too beefy for some PCs to handle. Is there a way to trim it down a bit so that the FPS loss is significantly reduced?
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on April 01, 2016, 03:29:49 PM
not at the moment, but i believe it is the light complexity in that part which is causing so much lag. i'm going to experiment and see if there is any way i can reduce the light and shader complexity in that area without reducing the graphical fidelity. the framerate also starts suffering in the bossroom, likely because of all the cobwebs.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on April 02, 2016, 02:15:11 PM
Add a foreground layer of soft light and remove the moonlight. Keep the moon brightness but it looks like the moonlight is struglling to go through every object wall that's open (windows, etc.) and the calculations may be causing slowdown.
Also, it's really hard to see with just the moonlight, so a soft foreground light source may help gameplay. You can keep more darkness in Stage 4 when you get to it.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on April 04, 2016, 05:11:08 AM
dunno, i like the moonlight, it outlines the windows pretty nicely, and also casts nice shadows on the floor. but i did toy a bit around with lighting to get a better understanding of how they work. i wanted a bit more of a silhouetted feel feel, where you'd have strong rim lighting outlining the characters, but so far i've been mostly unsuccesful at it.
oh, and i worked on simons animations over the weekend. quite a pain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2YqMaYWA7Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2YqMaYWA7Y)
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on April 04, 2016, 09:28:47 AM
His walking and whipping looks good. The jumping is still goofy, hehe.
Not saying I didn't like the moonlight lighting, I'm just noting that it may be the reason for the slowdown that people are experiencing. Perhaps some compromising may have to happen?
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on April 04, 2016, 02:19:49 PM
There must be a way of getting the desired results and at the same time not sacrifice loss in FPS.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on April 04, 2016, 11:20:21 PM
yes i'm looking into it. afaik there's 3 light types in unreal, moveable stationary and static. static lights are the absolute cheapest, and cast no dynamic shadows. i switched the moonlight from stationary to static, since it didn't cast dynamic shadows really well through the windows. instead i've switched a fill light i have behind the windows to stationary instead, so objects moving in front of the windows actually cast a shadow now, although the shadow doesn't connect with the legs so it looks like the character is floating.
not happy with the garish specularity on the walls. i tuned up some of the foreground lights, but it caused the walls to appear like water, so i'll have to do some material tweaking
here's a picture showing off the light complexity. (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FD2V16nj.jpg&hash=9b2d92a207304ba204ac80f90414e9ef536572a5) it is clearly higher in the entrance than the starting area, so i think this is part of the reason why there's a slowdown there. i also had a dust foreground shader in the entrance area, which i believe was causing sever slowdowns, so i removed that.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on April 05, 2016, 04:10:32 AM
It looks killer.... Vampire Killer. 8)
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on April 05, 2016, 04:32:52 AM
Quote
not happy with the garish specularity on the walls. i tuned up some of the foreground lights, but it caused the walls to appear like water, so i'll have to do some material tweaking
It doesn't bother me that much. In fact it looks like water vapor permeating the walls of an otherwise abandoned castle. Cold moonlit nights with moisture in the air can produce such an effect. It might not work for stage 1 but it would look boss on an area that's around a water source.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on April 13, 2016, 01:39:20 AM
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on April 13, 2016, 04:17:24 AM
Someone forgot his comb this morning..
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on April 13, 2016, 02:30:22 PM
Quote
new ghoul model creation video :)
Nice! Although I wouldn't count them as ghouls since they act like zombies and probably are.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on April 13, 2016, 03:04:04 PM
hmmh, well i always called them ghosts.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on April 15, 2016, 08:29:11 PM
In Super CV4, they're called "Cruela", but later in Symphony of the Night they became a type of "Zombie". (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.castlevaniacrypt.com%2Fimg%2Fcv4%2Fmanual%2Fsnes%2F10.jpg&hash=54c066b5db5810d6a8dec6dc249e6fbd2cdb2169)
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: MooMilk on April 16, 2016, 03:38:14 PM
Would it be possible to get a youtube video, for those of us that don't wanna install unreal?
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on April 16, 2016, 04:18:11 PM
minor update. i've mostly been trying to wrap my head around the unreal animation system, and found a lot of pitfalls. got the whip to work mostly flawlessly, although there's a bug where it will stop whipping, seemingly randomly.
also been toying with the post effects, and found some pretty neat effects. i increased the strength of the ambient occlusion, and it gives a nice contrast to things. seems like the ghouls are more "grounded" as well because of this. also mucked around with Scene colours. i added some fringe intensity to give it a slight kung fury look, and also added some slight vignetting. looking at those curtains, they got to go. ugly as fuck.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on April 29, 2016, 01:44:26 PM
I don't think the curtains look bad, but they should probably be on fire.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on April 29, 2016, 02:21:20 PM
If you're intent on replicating CV1's first stage accurately then the curtains need to remain. Perhaps you can alter them to look better so that they aren't 'ugly as f@#k' lol. Other then that good job. ;)
Quote
I hope we get level 2 before this gets C & D'd
Hopefully that won't happen as I want to see this finished too. But to receive a C&D from Konami at this point would be more a kin to a bad joke with the way they currently are.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on April 29, 2016, 08:21:42 PM
peh, if they DMCA i'll make a parody called metalvania, where everyone is dressed in black leather and headbanging, heavy metal music is blaring in the background, and thunder is cracking constantly.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on April 30, 2016, 08:31:05 AM
fixed the shadows from the lights. turns out it was just the shadow bias of the lights being too large.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: KaZudra on April 30, 2016, 11:11:56 AM
Looks good, personally it could tone down the post-processing effects but that's..... Just an Opinion.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: mig3 on May 01, 2016, 05:56:33 PM
This project is really impressive. I love the graphics, the effects the song and the atmosphere of the level x) The whole thing is stunning. Can you tell me please how much time was needed to make that?
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on May 01, 2016, 06:56:31 PM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fwhf6pFz.jpg&hash=7b53281f231b578a5dc19f57f23033332c44952a) testing the look of a new curtain. not sure if i'm happy with this either. hrm.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on May 01, 2016, 06:59:28 PM
This project is really impressive. I love the graphics, the effects the song and the atmosphere of the level x) The whole thing is stunning. Can you tell me please how much time was needed to make that?
spent the weekends for about 4 months making it, so there's probably around 300-400 hours of work in it.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: mig3 on May 01, 2016, 07:32:22 PM
It's quite a sacrifice. I hope you will lead the project to his completion, it will be amazing x)
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on May 02, 2016, 05:24:26 AM
Quote
testing the look of a new curtain. not sure if i'm happy with this either. hrm.
I think what's giving you trouble is that you have a vaulted ceiling. Hanging curtains from such an angle does make it look awkward. The curtains themselves should be on a curtain rod suspended just above the window. Give that a try and see how it turns out.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on May 02, 2016, 09:54:39 AM
I think what's giving you trouble is that you have a vaulted ceiling. Hanging curtains from such an angle does make it look awkward. The curtains themselves should be on a curtain rod suspended just above the window. Give that a try and see how it turns out.
How about just hanging the curtains straight down like they're on a rod, but they vanish above the screen. Then all you'd see are straight curtains.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on May 02, 2016, 02:38:30 PM
That could work as well since that's how we see it in-game; (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/50/Castlevania_nes_03.png)
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on May 03, 2016, 01:20:09 PM
How about just hanging the curtains straight down like they're on a rod, but they vanish above the screen. Then all you'd see are straight curtains.
won't work with the curved roof.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: TatteredSeraph on May 03, 2016, 03:46:42 PM
I would place a bar across the top of the window, level with the bottom of each arch, and hang the curtain from that.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on May 03, 2016, 09:24:49 PM
You need a curved Curtain Rod, if you're intent on having that kind of ceiling with that type of window. (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.tt%2Farchives%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Farticles%2Fimages%2Fdrapes.png&hash=3062232dd222726824a1616c1ff7ed8f9c5f0891)
However, as this particular Entrance Hall was built circa 1691, if you wanted the Classic Castlevania NES look, remastered, you'd need a 17th Century Pillared Entrance Hall set of windows, drapes (slightly different than curtains, drapes are meant to cover the entire wall, not just the window, in order to keep a Castle warm), and a flat ceiling (flat ceilings are a staple of entrance halls, while the ceiling you're using is more suited for other means).
You want something like this 17th century dwelling: (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.1stdibs.com%2Fblogs%2Fthe-study%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F1stdibs_Foyer_016.jpg&hash=55ebc7e3861c28b45b3a0c62aa06dc108c75a1ed)
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on May 03, 2016, 09:28:56 PM
Well due to 3d vaulted ceilings then I'd probably leave them the way they are. If they're darkened like a crimson or maroon and look more tattered, and hang a bit lower then they'll fade out and not be as noticeable.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on May 04, 2016, 07:10:05 PM
yeah i might go for the vaulted curtain hanger, although i guess i could raise the roof a bit as well. tried to go for the hunyad castle look, since it's the castle that inspired bram stokers dracula, and the windows has sort of the look of the castlevania ones: (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftouristinromania.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2F2012_10_08_dm_120706-castelul_corvinilor-10_rsz.jpg&hash=2380ccf702bd493c2ce408735c5c970e29b12877) guess i'll draw some more "inspiration" for the curtains from it.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on May 15, 2016, 01:37:31 AM
yet another set of curtains. this time i'm somewhat happy with them.
thanks. this guy: (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjfZzjc2.jpg&hash=5c670b01655afb68497ea897f73ee47fb47ff379)
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on May 15, 2016, 01:38:20 PM
thanks. this guy: (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjfZzjc2.jpg&hash=5c670b01655afb68497ea897f73ee47fb47ff379)
Haha that's awesome.. :)
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on May 15, 2016, 03:57:42 PM
castle entrance is much improved now. but maybe i should tone down the moonbeams. (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyEwco1c.jpg&hash=32410c232c01156257a6559a73255524682ee356)
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 02, 2016, 08:29:55 PM
some more work on the remake:
death animations for enemies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPY5x42bn98 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPY5x42bn98) and early level 2 preview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZLLZwHfsng (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZLLZwHfsng)
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: MooMilk on October 03, 2016, 01:12:37 AM
Stage 2 is looking pretty good.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on October 03, 2016, 02:36:27 PM
I personally think the whip is a little too short. I could have more range as does it's NES counterpart. While stage 2 is still very early in development as indicated by the vid, I think it's a little too dark in some spots. I noticed in the vid that the one platform you almost can't see because it's too dark. Other then that it looks awesome! Don't give up on this.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Chernabogue on October 03, 2016, 03:10:51 PM
Man, this looks gorgeous and awesome. Would love to play a real HD remake of CV1 like this!
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 04, 2016, 03:56:57 PM
I personally think the whip is a little too short. I could have more range as does it's NES counterpart. While stage 2 is still very early in development as indicated by the vid, I think it's a little too dark in some spots. I noticed in the vid that the one platform you almost can't see because it's too dark. Other then that it looks awesome! Don't give up on this.
i'm not giving up on it, it just takes a lot of time to work on it because it's 3d, and i'm only 1 person. a single enemy character can be 2-3 full days of work to get into the game, and since i'm mostly working weekends on it.. well.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: piscesdreams on October 04, 2016, 09:00:08 PM
I feel your pain and I'm not even modeling everything from the ground up like you are. What is your workflow for texturing?
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on October 05, 2016, 12:35:28 AM
Quote
i'm not giving up on it, it just takes a lot of time to work on it because it's 3d, and i'm only 1 person. a single enemy character can be 2-3 full days of work to get into the game, and since i'm mostly working weekends on it.. well.
I hear ya. No-doubt working on a limited schedule like yours would slow things down but good. Just do what you can and it'll be finished before you known it.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 05, 2016, 10:10:51 AM
I feel your pain and I'm not even modeling everything from the ground up like you are. What is your workflow for texturing?
texturing depends on what i'm doing. but i'm trying various things to see what is faster. for the ghoul, process was photoshop texturing. for the bridge pieces, and some other parts of level 2 i tried polypaint in zbrush. it's usually a combination of hand-painting and phototextures.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 07, 2016, 08:39:31 PM
I hear ya. No-doubt working on a limited schedule like yours would slow things down but good. Just do what you can and it'll be finished before you known it.
heh, current estimate, finished game will have an ETA of 3-4 years, if i rush things.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on October 07, 2016, 10:34:33 PM
Quote
heh, current estimate, finished game will have an ETA of 3-4 years, if i rush things.
I know about this well. Although not for game-making. It took me 9 years to write out my first novel, lol.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 10, 2016, 02:51:41 AM
progress on level 2. worked pretty much non-stop for 3 days, morning to evening over the weekend:
Woah there buddy, crowdfunding a derivative work isn't exactly a good idea. I've seen quite a handful of those shut down due to legal problems.
Faxanadu HD got shut down, doubt this would be different.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Lelygax on October 11, 2016, 09:22:39 PM
I feel the same about it, its not a good idea. But its not like Faxanadu HD. Faxanadu HD's guy tried in a shameless effort to profit using another's IP without permission and/or give them money to get it. While dejawolfs is trying to get money to get such license.
Even so I don't think big companies really care or even try to look why people are trying to get money if you slap their IP name on some Kickstarter, I think its the first time that someone tries to get money for a license in a crowdfunding site instead of doing a game without permission, someone more well versed should share their thoughts here, since as it seems to me while he doesnt get a hold of the license he is technically in a "without permission status" and this kickstarter really can bring issues even if he is trying to do the right thing.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: piscesdreams on October 11, 2016, 09:41:47 PM
It may be a different scenario, but it's Konami and there is officially a monetary value affiliated with this project. It won't be long before it is shut down and possibly even a C&D issued on the game itself.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Chernabogue on October 12, 2016, 05:35:14 AM
If you're really going with a Kickstarter, make sure legal stuff is okay. And improve your KS's presentation as well, it really feels very unprofessional and rushed.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 12, 2016, 06:24:07 AM
it's done, no turning back. and the kickstarter page is uneditable, so no changing that.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: KaZudra on October 12, 2016, 06:52:29 AM
Oh boy, I smell a DCMA straight from Konami.
If you're passionate about it, we can help get an original CV inspired indie game going.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: MooMilk on October 12, 2016, 10:18:29 AM
That was stupid.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: darkmanx_429 on October 12, 2016, 03:06:07 PM
Yeah, I don't know how I feel about the KS either. Especially when ShadowMoses literally just got shut down pretty recently a few months ago.
I think you would be much better off removing the KS and basically finishing the whole game first in UE4. Better to release first and then ask for permission later, but the fact that you are still asking for money even if it's just to gain a CV License I can practically see a C&D coming practically crippling you before you can truly gain momentum in your project.
I would say continue to just work on it with whatever small free time you have on the weekends until it's done.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Claimh Solais on October 18, 2016, 04:02:20 AM
*sigh* Whatever little hope I had for this project just went out the window with the Kickstarter. Let me leave my two cents on it. tl;dr at the end for those who don't want to read the whole post.
One: The obvious legal issues. This is exactly the same situation as Faxanadu Remake. This isn't different in that you're asking to raise money for the license to CV, because it clearly states in your Kickstarter project that what you're trying to fund is the remake itself, not the ability to obtain the license. Even then, I'm sure there's a whole other legal hoop you gotta jump through to even raise funds to get the license. This is a DMCA waiting to happen.
The legal issues can be disregarded if you decided to just instead make your own CV-inspired game, but that isn't what you're doing here.
Two: Holy hell, those price points. The first reward tier is fine. It's approximately $12 USD to get the game upon completion. That sounds fine and dandy. But the higher tiers? It's approximately $114 USD to get the game and your name in the credits. That is unreasonable in every sense of the word. I don't know who in their right mind would think that's an acceptable price point, because most games give you the ability to have your name in the credits for just $5 USD. Most other games will give you the game and that option for around $30 USD. That's horribly overpriced.
Don't even get me started on the "King's Ransom". You're getting the game, the credit, and a character model of you for a whopping $2,800 USD (approximately). That is beyond an insane price point. That's more than asking for an arm and a leg. That's a price that's equivalent to about six PS4 Pros. Even if you had the go-ahead to make a Kickstarter to raise any kind of money, you really should have sought advice on the reward tiers. Because the only one that even makes sense is the first tier.
Three: Your presentation. This one was brought up previously. Your presentation looks rushed and completely unprofessional. If you even wanted a chance to get this to "be okay" with Konami, the least you could have done was work on your presentation. Not only is there a lack of anything on your page, but capitalization and writing is a huge issue.
On top of that, you show nothing of where people's money will go. On the page, you even state that the animations may not be top notch, so it's clear you're not going to use some of that money to either polish the animations yourself, or pay someone to do it. You don't say whether it will go toward improving the graphics, the gameplay, remastering music, recording voice acting, or anything like that. You don't even state how much the Castlevania license is. You're asking for upwards of $70,000+ USD without telling anyone where the money is going.
Basically, the KS is pretty much doomed to fail, and even if it weren't, there are so many things that are out of whack here. The creation of the Kickstarter page was a premature move, and you should've sought advice for it, or someone to put it together for you. But as it is, you have nothing here but a couple of videos of what you have in UE4. You don't tell us what you plan to put in the game, where the money is going to go, how you're going to budget it... I mean, all of this would easily fit into the "Risks and Challenges" slot.
tl;dr - The Kickstarter page was a bad idea, and is pretty much doomed to fail.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 18, 2016, 07:34:06 AM
I didn't like any of that. ???
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Chernabogue on October 19, 2016, 11:53:59 AM
Apart from the KS thing, your progress is amazing. Level 2 is getting better with each update.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 26, 2016, 03:30:55 AM
*sigh* Whatever little hope I had for this project just went out the window with the Kickstarter. Let me leave my two cents on it. tl;dr at the end for those who don't want to read the whole post.
tl;dr - The Kickstarter page was a bad idea, and is pretty much doomed to fail.
yeah, i agree the kickstarter was a terrible idea, never should have listened to those people telling me i should do one.
sure the page looks raggedy and hashed together, because it is. i'd rather work on the game than spend 2-3 days putting together a proper kickstarter page.
for the price point, i have over 200k views on the original castlevania video. i would need less than half of those people to do a 10$ donation to reach the point. the majority of the money would be for the license, the other 20-25k are an estimate of what i'd need to pay decent 3d artists for their work. the rest would go towards obtaining a license.
for the price points, i put them intentionally high, to keep those donations to a minimum. again, i'd rather spend time working on the castlevania remake than spend hours upon hours typing in the names of 25 000 people into a credits list who gave me 20$ as an example, if i spend 20 seconds typing in a name, i'll be spending 139 hours typing in names. if i spend 4 hours every day typing in names, that'll be nearly 35 days of typing. i could complete a level in the same time.
and for the kings ransom, i won't be spending 20 seconds on that, i can tell you that much. a properly rigged, textured and normal mapped unique character model you're talking at least 2 full days of work. if only 100 people paid the kings ransom, i'd end up having to spend 1600 hours making people and putting them into the game. in that same time period i could probably make 2 full castlevania remakes. i could outsource, but expect to pay at least 350€ for a decent character model. that's 21€ an hour, or the average hourly pay for a car mechanic here in norway.
you even state that the animations may not be top notch, so it's clear you're not going to use some of that money to either polish the animations yourself, or pay someone to do it
i said that because i'm not a top notch animator, or a top notch programmer. and apparently not a top notch communicator either. i didn't think of outsourcing animations at the time of typing, although i do know a pretty talented mercenary animator.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Claimh Solais on October 26, 2016, 02:14:49 PM
sure the page looks raggedy and hashed together, because it is. i'd rather work on the game than spend 2-3 days putting together a proper kickstarter page.
See, but even if Konami were going to sell you the license, they'd obviously do a back-check on who you are. If you showed them your YouTube videos, it wouldn't be hard to trace your username down to here. And this line that I quoted here? If you can't even take a couple days to put together a well-produced Kickstarter page, why would Konami trust you with the CV license? How would they know if, now that you got the license, you're going to put together a well-produced game? Or that you'll even finish it? You can say you will on both those questions, and most of us here even believe you will. But you need to show Konami, not tell them. And if you can't even be bothered to take the time out on your Kickstarter page, it creates a really bad first impression.
for the price point, i have over 200k views on the original castlevania video. i would need less than half of those people to do a 10$ donation to reach the point. the majority of the money would be for the license, the other 20-25k are an estimate of what i'd need to pay decent 3d artists for their work. the rest would go towards obtaining a license.
You're going under the assumption here that 200,000 separate people watched your video. Some of those people commented multiple times in a comment thread. Most of them don't just stick around until the next comment pops up. They leave the page and when they get a notification they go back to the video to respond. Each time they go back, it adds another view to your page. There are some people that actually even liked what they saw enough to watch it multiple times.
On top of that, just because they watched the video doesn't mean they will pledge.
And also, you still haven't said how you plan to get the license. Do you even know how? As it is currently, you sound like you're making all these ambitious claims but don't actually have a plan in place on how to achieve it, which is something you really should have put together first.
for the price points, i put them intentionally high, to keep those donations to a minimum. again, i'd rather spend time working on the castlevania remake than spend hours upon hours typing in the names of 25 000 people into a credits list who gave me 20$ as an example, if i spend 20 seconds typing in a name, i'll be spending 139 hours typing in names. if i spend 4 hours every day typing in names, that'll be nearly 35 days of typing. i could complete a level in the same time.
Just an aside note that isn't meant to be taken seriously... What kind of name would take 20 seconds to write?
Back on a series note: That's what limited reward tiers are for. Make "name in the credits" a limit of 10 or 20. Going off most your comments here and on YouTube, you made it very clear you didn't give the "How-To" on Kickstarter a thorough read. They all you all the things you can do on there, and how to do it, which I found after about 8 seconds of searching.
and for the kings ransom, i won't be spending 20 seconds on that, i can tell you that much. a properly rigged, textured and normal mapped unique character model you're talking at least 2 full days of work. if only 100 people paid the kings ransom, i'd end up having to spend 1600 hours making people and putting them into the game. in that same time period i could probably make 2 full castlevania remakes. i could outsource, but expect to pay at least 350€ for a decent character model. that's 21€ an hour, or the average hourly pay for a car mechanic here in norway.
Then that's not only a stupid reward tier, it's an incredibly scummy thing to do. Let's put into a full perspective.
Let's assume a guy decides he does want the King's Ransom reward tier. He's clearly got a lot of faith in your game and wants to see it to its completion. So much so that he pledges almost three-thousand US dollars to your game. If you want an idea of what you could buy with that...
-46 brand new day-one-release console video games. -70 brand new day-one-release portable video games. -Seven brand new PlayStation 4 Pros. -Fourteen brand new New Nintendo 3DS XLs.
So instead of buying one of those options, they instead to give the money to you for the reasons above. And you're not even going to give them a properly rigged, textured, and mapped character model. Someone is giving you nearly three grand and you're not going to take two days out of your life to give them something that does not cost nearly three-thousand dollars anywhere else.
You put the reward tier there. You give them something proper for the price you're asking for.
--------------------------
As a final note, you're tossing aside a lot cuz all you want to do is develop games. But as it stands, you can't just do that. Professionalism is key. It's a huge factor in getting people to even want to play your game, let alone actually having them play it. You're focusing solely on the parts you want to do, and ignoring so many essential parts simply because you don't want to do them.
Kickstarter page? Yeah, it was a bust. But everyone would have had significantly more faith in it had you just spent the couple days working on it. Had you sought advice to actually put together a well-made presentation. Had a plan that would have gotten you there and laid it out for the public to see. Did the research on how to even get the license and let people know how you planned to do that. A fall-back plan in the event that Konami doesn't sell you the license (which is very likely). Or just in general, found a much better way to go about this.
An important point that you need to understand is that this Kickstarter still is you making money off an IP that isn't yours to make money off of. The reason being is that if your Kickstarter is successful and Konami does not sell you the license, you now have fifty extra grand in your pocket. That's a lot of money.
As a final aside, these aren't meant as a personal attack against you. Take these critiques to heart. Not just from me but from others who have at least tried to give constructive criticism and not just thrown insults at you. Apply them to not only your project but future projects and your work ethic. It'll give you a significantly better image to the public, and people would be more inclined to play your games and share them with their friends; and when you get to that point you're selling your games on Steam Greenlight or something, they'll be more inclined to pay for them. As I said, professionalism goes a long way.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: MooMilk on October 26, 2016, 09:50:46 PM
There needed to be alot more incentives. Also name in the credits was totally doable. I saw a couple kickstarted documentaries that had long sections in the credits that had kickstarter names. You can have 3 names side by side in HD resolution. I doubt Konami would give you the right to make the game tho if you were gonna add 200 characters of noname average people as playable characters. That' definately wouldn't add value to the game in their minds.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 26, 2016, 10:00:47 PM
No offence but this whole thing now feels like a cash grab. Your game looks awesome and I could not in any way do better, but at the end of the day: - it's Castlevania 1 with new graphics and - there are also parts that seem really unfinished in the existing levels (such as the knights in L2 having basically zero animation)
I realise it's not a finished product, but just something to note.
Even if you're asking for money for a brand new ip or a license for an existing one, then you're better off putting together a presentation that looks finished rather than quantity which looks good but seems unfinished.
You say the KS page is rushed, but you seem to be fine with it? I would seriously spend the time doing research on how to get the licence, otherwise as Claimh stated it seems like the only interest in keeping this open is for a cash grab.
If Konami sees that you've already started developing this they're more than likely to take the KS page out of context and try to shut it down along with your project.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: KaZudra on October 27, 2016, 12:15:42 AM
Then that's not only a stupid reward tier, it's an incredibly scummy thing to do. Let's put into a full perspective.
Let's assume a guy decides he does want the King's Ransom reward tier. He's clearly got a lot of faith in your game and wants to see it to its completion. So much so that he pledges almost three-thousand US dollars to your game. If you want an idea of what you could buy with that...
-46 brand new day-one-release console video games. -70 brand new day-one-release portable video games. -Seven brand new PlayStation 4 Pros. -Fourteen brand new New Nintendo 3DS XLs.
So instead of buying one of those options, they instead to give the money to you for the reasons above. And you're not even going to give them a properly rigged, textured, and mapped character model. Someone is giving you nearly three grand and you're not going to take two days out of your life to give them something that does not cost nearly three-thousand dollars anywhere else.
You put the reward tier there. You give them something proper for the price you're asking for.
--------------------------
see this is the main reason why i didn't spend a lot of time typing up a kickstarter. you took the thing i said, and misunderstood it in the absolute worst possible way. i can do art, i can do music, and i can do programming. i don't do words, because i do all those other things. people are just going to very easily take my words out of context and interpret them in the absolute worst way possible.
read it again.
"and for the kings ransom, i won't be spending 20 seconds on that, i can tell you that much. a properly rigged, textured and normal mapped unique character model you're talking at least 2 full days of work. "
in other words "making a properly rigged textured and normal mapped unique character is not going to take 20 seconds, it will take 2 full days of work."
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 27, 2016, 03:13:52 AM
As a final note, you're tossing aside a lot cuz all you want to do is develop games. But as it stands, you can't just do that. Professionalism is key. It's a huge factor in getting people to even want to play your game, let alone actually having them play it. You're focusing solely on the parts you want to do, and ignoring so many essential parts simply because you don't want to do them.
professionalism to me is putting out things that work, not trying to sell broken things in a pretty package. i was uncertain whether the kickstarter was a good idea to begin with or whether it would even work. vs i could spend 2 days and fix up that annoying bug where the whip freezes, get the doors from spinning backwards, and get another enemy into the game. i'm focusing on the things i am good at, and i know i can get to work, and i know needs to be worked on.
An important point that you need to understand is that this Kickstarter still is you making money off an IP that isn't yours to make money off of. The reason being is that if your Kickstarter is successful and Konami does not sell you the license, you now have fifty extra grand in your pocket. That's a lot of money.
i wouldn't have them for long. if Konami was unwilling to sell me the license, they'd probably sue me for that money. but really, it doesn't make sense to me, that if i called Konami HQ, told them i want to give them 50 000 in cash for a castlevania license of a remake of one of their classics, and oh btw, i am funding the development myself, and when i'm done, i'll be willing to give you royalties, they'd turn me down? that's pretty insane. for most studios that'd be a dream come true. usually it's the other way around, "oh hey, i want to make a game with your IP, but i don't have any money, oh and can you please pay for us to develop it?"
As a final aside, these aren't meant as a personal attack against you. Take these critiques to heart. Not just from me but from others who have at least tried to give constructive criticism and not just thrown insults at you. Apply them to not only your project but future projects and your work ethic. It'll give you a significantly better image to the public, and people would be more inclined to play your games and share them with their friends; and when you get to that point you're selling your games on Steam Greenlight or something, they'll be more inclined to pay for them. As I said, professionalism goes a long way.
yeah, if i do another kickstarter, i'll ask for help.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 27, 2016, 03:25:38 AM
There needed to be alot more incentives. Also name in the credits was totally doable. I saw a couple kickstarted documentaries that had long sections in the credits that had kickstarter names. You can have 3 names side by side in HD resolution. I doubt Konami would give you the right to make the game tho if you were gonna add 200 characters of noname average people as playable characters. That' definately wouldn't add value to the game in their minds.
well, these would be customvanias for the people who paid the kings ransom, where they could select either simon or themselves.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 27, 2016, 03:37:46 AM
No offence but this whole thing now feels like a cash grab. Your game looks awesome and I could not in any way do better, but at the end of the day: - it's Castlevania 1 with new graphics and - there are also parts that seem really unfinished in the existing levels (such as the knights in L2 having basically zero animation)
I realise it's not a finished product, but just something to note.
already fixed up the knight animations a week ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgWYXpi1jeE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgWYXpi1jeE)
and you can download it for free from here: https://dejawolf.itch.io/castlevania-1-remake (https://dejawolf.itch.io/castlevania-1-remake)
and seriously, i spend over 300 hours of my time, give it away for free, and it's a cash grab.
Even if you're asking for money for a brand new ip or a license for an existing one, then you're better off putting together a presentation that looks finished rather than quantity which looks good but seems unfinished.
You say the KS page is rushed, but you seem to be fine with it? I would seriously spend the time doing research on how to get the licence, otherwise as Claimh stated it seems like the only interest in keeping this open is for a cash grab.
If Konami sees that you've already started developing this they're more than likely to take the KS page out of context and try to shut it down along with your project.
yes, i rushed the kickstarter page, so i could put time into working on the game instead. because as you said, it looks unfinished.
from the lawyer i talked to, getting a license is not that complicated. you call the guys who own the license, you work out a deal everyone is happy with, they tell you about the hoops, you jump through them, and then everyone is happy.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Claimh Solais on October 27, 2016, 05:22:27 AM
see this is the main reason why i didn't spend a lot of time typing up a kickstarter. you took the thing i said, and misunderstood it in the absolute worst possible way. i can do art, i can do music, and i can do programming. i don't do words, because i do all those other things. people are just going to very easily take my words out of context and interpret them in the absolute worst way possible.
read it again.
"and for the kings ransom, i won't be spending 20 seconds on that, i can tell you that much. a properly rigged, textured and normal mapped unique character model you're talking at least 2 full days of work. "
in other words "making a properly rigged textured and normal mapped unique character is not going to take 20 seconds, it will take 2 full days of work."
Misunderstanding on my part and I apologize. To be fair, though, I read that part of your post like four times and still came out with the same understanding, so you could've cleared it up a bit more.
professionalism to me is putting out things that work, not trying to sell broken things in a pretty package. i was uncertain whether the kickstarter was a good idea to begin with or whether it would even work. vs i could spend 2 days and fix up that annoying bug where the whip freezes, get the doors from spinning backwards, and get another enemy into the game. i'm focusing on the things i am good at, and i know i can get to work, and i know needs to be worked on.
The problem is, that's not all professionalism is. Part of professionalism is how you present yourself. Like I said before, rampant capitalization (or lack thereof) errors all over the KS page, no breakdown of you plan to spend the money, no plan on how you are going to obtain the license, and a very poor understanding of how Kickstarter works causing you to overprice things incredibly.
The whole "well, I could spend 2 days fixing the Kickstarter, or I could spend that 2 days fixing up the game" is a bad excuse because you're making the KS for the game. On top of that, you are not restricted to a deadline, and the game coming out two days later isn't going to hurt anybody.
Wouldn't even take two days if you had someone to help you. (Which you did say you'll have happen next time, which is good. Talking with a few people about budgeting, maybe getting someone on board with you who knows how to handle finances properly, etc.)
i wouldn't have them for long. if Konami was unwilling to sell me the license, they'd probably sue me for that money. but really, it doesn't make sense to me, that if i called Konami HQ, told them i want to give them 50 000 in cash for a castlevania license of a remake of one of their classics, and oh btw, i am funding the development myself, and when i'm done, i'll be willing to give you royalties, they'd turn me down? that's pretty insane. for most studios that'd be a dream come true. usually it's the other way around, "oh hey, i want to make a game with your IP, but i don't have any money, oh and can you please pay for us to develop it?"
"Not having the funds for long because Konami would sue me" is a terrible excuse. Why even risk it then? It makes zero sense why you'd do this or even keep the KS up if you know that already. (And yes, you can cancel funding on a KS project.)
And I don't know what doesn't make sense to you. Konami is a business. And every business handles their intellectual properties the same way. They aren't going to just give you the license because you'll pay for it, because it puts an official licensing from Konami on your product. And you have zero track record to go off of. If the game does well? All nice and dandy. But they have no reason to trust you with making a successful game because of the aforementioned zero track record. So if the game fails, it damages the brand.
You can argue that Konami doesn't care about the brand because they've turned Castlevania into slot machines and pachinko, but that's a fallacy. Those slot machines and pachinko machines are wildly successful in Japan, and generates them an amount of revenue that the actual CV games could only dream of. Pachinko is beyond popular in Japan, so while it destroyed their artistic integrity ditching the video games and turning them into slot machines, it makes perfect sense from a business stand-point.
The "royalties" you plan on giving them... what royalties? You'd be releasing the game for free, so what royalties are you going to give them? Money from your own pocket? If your game isn't generating any revenue, you can't give them any royalties. That's just not how it works. And if licensing the game to you means no revenue for them outside of what you're paying for the license, it's not worth it to Konami. To put it into a hypothetical scenario:
Let's say you pay them the $50k, and they give you the license. Let's say you complete the game after two years and release it to the public. Let's say you release it free, because that was the plan to begin with (right?). And now let's say the game does pretty well. That means it does decently, but Konami isn't going to make any money off of it. Even Konami's free-to-play games generate revenue, and this simply wouldn't be a good investment.
Now let's say all that happened, but the game fails instead. Yes, you've paid them $50k, but there's now a fan-made game with an official Konami licensing on it that has failed. It not only would make them no money, but it also damages the Castlevania brand, and has the potential to lose them money later.
Even if you were to sell it, there's no guarantee you'll get them enough money to meet a proper quota. There's no guarantee you'll actually finish it. There's no guarantee it'll be good or bad. You can say it will, you can make promises, but again, there's no track record to go off of for you. You don't have other released games out there to judge your development skills, to see whether what you've made before has been successful or failures. All anyone would get is a promise, and without any "right now" showing, it means nothing. All you've had to show are unfinished early test videos, which don't promise anything and sometimes even give a bad first impression.
So no, it's not a dream come true. If anything, it's par for the course, because I wouldn't be surprised if you're not the first person that has tried something like this. Even I've put together stuff and ideas like this before (things like Kickstarter didn't exist at the time, though). The fact of the matter is, you would have been better off finishing the game, and releasing it on the web for people to play, and maybe getting into contact with Konami later on and pitching it. Hell, even contacting a different developer and using it as a resume or proof-of-concept.
So you got some semblance of how to obtain the license, or at least you say you do. But you're still not showing that you do. Because I could say right now "Oh, I'm good friends with Koji Igarashi. We talk all the time," when in reality he and I are just friends on Facebook and he liked my post about Bloodstained once (he accepts pretty much any friend request so it's nothing special). It's not even like you have to record a call or have a write-up from the lawyer you talked to or whatever. Just a simple explanation of how it works, even, would give you more credibility. We live in an age where everyone claims everything on the internet, and then nearly everyone doesn't provide any proof, so all this disbelief in claims shouldn't be a surprise.
I do getcha, though. And you're going about this the best way you know how. But take it from someone who's done something like this before: you're being too over-ambitious when you don't have much to show for it. Work on some simple stuff, get your name out there, or at the very least show off that you can make and complete games. Because zangetsu's comment can sound mean ("No offence but this whole thing now feels like a cash grab.") but it makes perfect sense where he's coming from with one of my many previous points ("The reason being is that if your Kickstarter is successful and Konami does not sell you the license, you now have fifty extra grand in your pocket.")
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Chernabogue on October 27, 2016, 07:15:39 AM
Nice update, the game looks good so far. The animation on some enemies (like the Mermen) is great. The lightning from the Whip sometimes casts strange shadows, but that's not a big problem. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 27, 2016, 07:30:07 AM
The knight animations were an example, one. However it's good that they're fixed. The majority of visual issues I see are in foreground objects, again I'm not saying they're bad or game-breaking but they seem unfinished. To be fair this is bound to happen going from 2d to 3D because some objects can't simply be extruded and objects need a sense of realism in the 3rd dimension.
Granted I understand why you feel my cash grab comment was aimed as a personal attack but it wasn't. I don't believe your free demo/ partial game is a cash grab at all. As Claimh has stated and re-iterated I believe the KS "feels like" a cash grab. If hand-on-heart it's not, then this is my interpretation and it doesn't affect you, because although I like the idea of what you're doing, I'm not willing to pay for it. Even if the game was 100% complete I doubt I'd have time to play through it.
I did read your interview that Kazudra linked and I find it interesting that your prerogative was to learn to use Unreal. I say interesting because if the whole thing is truly and strictly a learning excercise then why do you believe you should be paid for it? (This is not me being condescending, just asking a direct question)
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 27, 2016, 09:27:05 AM
The knight animations were an example, one. However it's good that they're fixed. The majority of visual issues I see are in foreground objects, again I'm not saying they're bad or game-breaking but they seem unfinished. To be fair this is bound to happen going from 2d to 3D because some objects can't simply be extruded and objects need a sense of realism in the 3rd dimension.
well, i've taken a lot of shortcuts, simply because working in 3d is very time-consuming compared to 2d work. as an example, making a 2d brick sprite, you might spend at most 20 minutes in photoshop. for 3d, you need to first make the brick, then unwrap it, then create a normal map, a specular map, an ambient occlusion map, and diffuse map, you have to consider polygon and pixel density.. and now you're probably pushing 2 hours already.
Granted I understand why you feel my cash grab comment was aimed as a personal attack but it wasn't. I don't believe your free demo/ partial game is a cash grab at all. As Claimh has stated and re-iterated I believe the KS "feels like" a cash grab. If hand-on-heart it's not, then this is my interpretation and it doesn't affect you, because although I like the idea of what you're doing, I'm not willing to pay for it. Even if the game was 100% complete I doubt I'd have time to play through it.
i saw people posting stuff like this: (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyK2Z9MZ.jpg&hash=b57e2bf3af40af7b105017a00661abace1e4550a) and figured, well, let's try and make a kickstarter and see if people will support it then.
I did read your interview that Kazudra linked and I find it interesting that your prerogative was to learn to use Unreal. I say interesting because if the whole thing is truly and strictly a learning excercise then why do you believe you should be paid for it? (This is not me being condescending, just asking a direct question)
why do i believe i should be paid for doing something living in a capitalist society, that is built upon paying people for their work? let me ask, do you have a job?
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 27, 2016, 10:05:40 AM
well, i've taken a lot of shortcuts, simply because working in 3d is very time-consuming compared to 2d work. as an example, making a 2d brick sprite, you might spend at most 20 minutes in photoshop. for 3d, you need to first make the brick, then unwrap it, then create a normal map, a specular map, an ambient occlusion map, and diffuse map, you have to consider polygon and pixel density.. and now you're probably pushing 2 hours already.
I'll take your word for it, I've never designed games but I have 3d modeled in Rhino, 3DS Max and Revit, 3d can take time.
why do i believe i should be paid for doing something living in a capitalist society, that is built upon paying people for their work? let me ask, do you have a job?
Yes I do, a day job, pay taxes and am a part of this society which you refer to etc and I don't appreciate the undertone of that comment.
The reason I was aksing is firstly if someone is learning something like a student, there's no guarantee anybody is being paid to learn (it in fact costs most of us). Thus I was curious as to why you believed people should pay you for your work on this project ? Claimh had mentioned the zero track record which is a valid point, but maybe it's not about that, maybe it's the positive feedback from people who want to see this come to fruition that has given you the belief you could make a living from this. As I said, curious and you answered this above.
Having said this, given you get the licence and Konami give their blessing for you to go ahead and publish the game with their seal of approval then good times. However, if the opposite happens are you willing to refund all of those who funded you in the first place? What happens to all the funds people have pumped into the project then? Assuming you will want to be paid and all. If you reimburse the people then how will you be paid if nothing eventuates?
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 27, 2016, 11:50:10 AM
The reason I was aksing is firstly if someone is learning something like a student, there's no guarantee anybody is being paid to learn (it in fact costs most of us). Thus I was curious as to why you believed people should pay you for your work on this project ? Claimh had mentioned the zero track record which is a valid point, but maybe it's not about that, maybe it's the positive feedback from people who want to see this come to fruition that has given you the belief you could make a living from this. As I said, curious and you answered this above.
it works differently in Norway. you are actually paid for educating yourself, and working as a trainee at a company, you also get paid. because students need to live, and you want them to be educated.
Having said this, given you get the licence and Konami give their blessing for you to go ahead and publish the game with their seal of approval then good times. However, if the opposite happens are you willing to refund all of those who funded you in the first place? What happens to all the funds people have pumped into the project then? Assuming you will want to be paid and all. If you reimburse the people then how will you be paid if nothing eventuates?
given that scenario, i'd have to reimburse people, and start working on my own project instead. i can't have money that's not legally my own lying around, no matter how hard i worked for it.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 27, 2016, 02:46:23 PM
Misunderstanding on my part and I apologize. To be fair, though, I read that part of your post like four times and still came out with the same understanding, so you could've cleared it up a bit more.
The problem is, that's not all professionalism is. Part of professionalism is how you present yourself. Like I said before, rampant capitalization (or lack thereof) errors all over the KS page, no breakdown of you plan to spend the money, no plan on how you are going to obtain the license, and a very poor understanding of how Kickstarter works causing you to overprice things incredibly.
yes, i definitely could have explained that in more detail.
"Not having the funds for long because Konami would sue me" is a terrible excuse. Why even risk it then? It makes zero sense why you'd do this or even keep the KS up if you know that already. (And yes, you can cancel funding on a KS project.)
dunno, i'm hearing all these people saying konami is satan, and eats fanprojects for lunch, yet i've been hammering away for a year at this, even had a small article in kotaku, and still nothing from konami. the KS is obviously going to fail, but i'm kinda wanting to keep that kickstarter up just to see if people are wrong about konami.
And I don't know what doesn't make sense to you. Konami is a business. And every business handles their intellectual properties the same way. They aren't going to just give you the license because you'll pay for it, because it puts an official licensing from Konami on your product. And you have zero track record to go off of. If the game does well? All nice and dandy. But they have no reason to trust you with making a successful game because of the aforementioned zero track record. So if the game fails, it damages the brand.
well, i have 11 years of experience as a 3d modeler for a company called esim games, which has released 4 versions of a tank simulator called steel beasts. dunno if that'll count for anything.
You can argue that Konami doesn't care about the brand because they've turned Castlevania into slot machines and pachinko, but that's a fallacy. Those slot machines and pachinko machines are wildly successful in Japan, and generates them an amount of revenue that the actual CV games could only dream of. Pachinko is beyond popular in Japan, so while it destroyed their artistic integrity ditching the video games and turning them into slot machines, it makes perfect sense from a business stand-point.
sure, konami is a business, and they have employees with families that needs to be fed, clothed and housed. they'll understandably do what they can to keep their employees jobs secure. i took a quick look at their stocks a few days ago, and it has gone up since they started with pachinko.
interesting fact about pachinko though: gambling in japan is illegal. which means pachinko is actually illegal in japan since it is a gambling machine, but the pachinko parlors have found a clever way of circumventing this law. at the pachinko parlors, the people "buy" pachinko balls, and put them into pachinko machines. after they're done, there are stores that "buy" pachinko balls, which the pachinko players go to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWV_zpRrCko (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWV_zpRrCko)
The "royalties" you plan on giving them... what royalties? You'd be releasing the game for free, so what royalties are you going to give them? Money from your own pocket? If your game isn't generating any revenue, you can't give them any royalties. That's just not how it works. And if licensing the game to you means no revenue for them outside of what you're paying for the license, it's not worth it to Konami. To put it into a hypothetical scenario:
Let's say you pay them the $50k, and they give you the license. Let's say you complete the game after two years and release it to the public. Let's say you release it free, because that was the plan to begin with (right?). And now let's say the game does pretty well. That means it does decently, but Konami isn't going to make any money off of it. Even Konami's free-to-play games generate revenue, and this simply wouldn't be a good investment.
i've released the game for free, and going to keep the first 3 levels free. if i get the license, i'll sell the full game with all levels for maybe 5-10$ if i don't(which seems very likely, given how the kickstarter is failing) i'll finish up level 2 and 3, and then work on my own IP.
Now let's say all that happened, but the game fails instead. Yes, you've paid them $50k, but there's now a fan-made game with an official Konami licensing on it that has failed. It not only would make them no money, but it also damages the Castlevania brand, and has the potential to lose them money later.
people were making comments on my video such as "konami, take note, this is what you should have been doing all along" i believe that is a fairly strong indicator that what i'm doing is in no way damaging the brand, but rather strengthening it and giving people back a little faith in it.
Even if you were to sell it, there's no guarantee you'll get them enough money to meet a proper quota.
a "proper quota?" what, if i fail to make them enough money? that's usually only is a problem if the game has a budget. e.g we spent 50k on this game, so we'll need to earn at least 70k for this project to be worth it. in this case konami spent 0, so the "proper quota" would also be 0.
You don't have other released games out there to judge your development skills, to see whether what you've made before has been successful or failures. All anyone would get is a promise, and without any "right now" showing, it means nothing. All you've had to show are unfinished early test videos, which don't promise anything and sometimes even give a bad first impression.
no, i also have released the first two levels on itch.io for free.
So no, it's not a dream come true. If anything, it's par for the course, because I wouldn't be surprised if you're not the first person that has tried something like this. Even I've put together stuff and ideas like this before. The fact of the matter is, you would have been better off finishing the game, and releasing it on the web for people to play, and maybe getting into contact with Konami later on and pitching it. Hell, even contacting a different developer and using it as a resume or proof-of-concept.
sure there's other games that have been made into 3d sidescroller platformers, like mega man x, which got slammed pretty hard by critics. and mega man powered up: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/Mega_man_powered_up.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/Mega_man_powered_up.jpg) myself i got the idea of doing it in unreal engine from watching a guy who did mario and zelda in unreal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW4L9CuZ3Ak (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW4L9CuZ3Ak) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgbGgtq-NMc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgbGgtq-NMc) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9I-aTPwda0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9I-aTPwda0) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65JEfWpy7N0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65JEfWpy7N0)
So you got some semblance of how to obtain the license, or at least you say you do. But you're still not showing that you do. Because I could say right now "Oh, I'm good friends with Koji Igarashi. We talk all the time," when in reality he and I are just friends on Facebook and he liked my post about Bloodstained once (he accepts pretty much any friend request so it's nothing special). It's not even like you have to record a call or have a write-up from the lawyer you talked to or whatever. Just a simple explanation of how it works, even, would give you more credibility. We live in an age where everyone claims everything on the internet, and then nearly everyone doesn't provide any proof, so all this disbelief in claims shouldn't be a surprise.
i could dig up their phone number here and give them a call: https://konami.com/jobs/en/ (https://konami.com/jobs/en/)
I do getcha, though. And you're going about this the best way you know how. But take it from someone who's done something like this before: you're being too over-ambitious when you don't have much to show for it. Work on some simple stuff, get your name out there, or at the very least show off that you can make and complete games. Because zangetsu's comment can sound mean ("No offence but this whole thing now feels like a cash grab.") but it makes perfect sense where he's coming from with one of my many previous points ("The reason being is that if your Kickstarter is successful and Konami does not sell you the license, you now have fifty extra grand in your pocket.")
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Las on October 27, 2016, 02:53:17 PM
Damn Dejawolf this 1st and 2nd level is amazing so far! You have really nailed it on this! Keep up the great work! Love what you did with the stairs and flooring in level 2! ;D
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Lelygax on October 27, 2016, 07:19:27 PM
@dejawolf I really like this project and want this to happen, but what people there seems to be trying to communicate is: It isn't right to ask money without a guarantee.
Kickstarter doesnt work this way, it would be hard to refund everyone and I think that in the worst case scenario you could even lose money. But wait, there is a solution. Why you don't contact Konami first and try to know if they could guarantee a greenlight, while also knowing for sure how much money they would ask? This way no one would have doubts about what would happen if you reach the KS goal, not even you.
The last thing that people want is to get their hopes high only to be smashed later, without some kind of guarantee people won't pledge.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: BLOOD MONKEY on October 27, 2016, 08:11:19 PM
I have one word for this whole situation......
DUMB
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Claimh Solais on October 27, 2016, 09:17:24 PM
dunno, i'm hearing all these people saying konami is satan, and eats fanprojects for lunch, yet i've been hammering away for a year at this, even had a small article in kotaku, and still nothing from konami. the KS is obviously going to fail, but i'm kinda wanting to keep that kickstarter up just to see if people are wrong about konami.
I don't know where you're getting this. Belmontoya even said Konami gave them their blessing on Lecarde Chronicles 2 so they can continue making it without a hitch.
well, i have 11 years of experience as a 3d modeler for a company called esim games, which has released 4 versions of a tank simulator called steel beasts. dunno if that'll count for anything.
Doesn't really count for anything when you don't provide those background details for anyone to see. If you have experience, that's definitely something you should've brought up the last ten or so times I brought up the zero track record. 11 years as a 3D modeler doesn't mean your fan-game will be successful though (though it does show your prowess at modeling, especially when watching your modeling videos. I was really impressed with that stuff).
i've released the game for free, and going to keep the first 3 levels free. if i get the license, i'll sell the full game with all levels for maybe 5-10$ if i don't(which seems very likely, given how the kickstarter is failing) i'll finish up level 2 and 3, and then work on my own IP.
I don't... what? So now your plan is to sell the game if you get the license? This is the kind of lack of communication that I've been talking about. You don't even have a plan laid out for what you want to do with the game. As a fan-game, it's expected you'll release the whole thing for free. Obviously, as it's not your IP to sell. And yeah, you're keeping the levels free. But only the first three? So the last three are going to be paid downloads? So why go nuts on zangetsu for the "cash grab" comments? I'm really not understanding here.
people were making comments on my video such as "konami, take note, this is what you should have been doing all along" i believe that is a fairly strong indicator that what i'm doing is in no way damaging the brand, but rather strengthening it and giving people back a little faith in it.
This is gonna be the bit that absolutely no fan, let alone a fan-game developer wants to hear: Views from fans on fan-games is horribly skewed.[/i] Let me use an example of a fan-game: Castlevania The Lecarde Chronicles 1. I never played this fan-game until recently, even though it's been out for a long time. But I heard all the hype surrounding it, many calling it the best CV fan-game ever created, some even touting it as better than most official CV games. And with how awesome the second one is looking, I decided to try it. The end result? Most of the hype was bullshit.
Lecarde Chronicles was definitely a quality fan-game, and emulated the CV style pretty well. But there were design flaws everywhere that people are seemingly overlooking. Too many traps that blend in with the background too much. Poor enemy placement that results in unfair damage. Non-adjustable controls making custom controls an absolute hassle. The existence of being able to travel downward by jumping down, making it confusing if a downward drop will lead into a death or another area, or possibly another area that results in death.
Is Lecarde Chronicles bad? Hell no. It's definitely a really good fan-game. But it goes to show that views over fan-games are incredibly skewed. Now while I know your game isn't finished yet, if I were to judge it the same way I judge LC1, these are the things I'd point out (Disclaimer: I have kept critique of your work to a minimum previously simply because I'm aware it's still a work-in-progress. This critique is purely for the sake of my argument):
-Animations are wonky and look really silly, which completely goes against the atmosphere. -It's too dark. WAAAAY too dark. Some areas it's nearly impossible to see and there are light sources coming from everywhere. Half the time Simon is impossible to see, but you mended this by making his whip glow, but that makes it look even worse cuz now Simon's shadow is spinning around every which way. The panthers in Stage 1 are especially cheap because you can't see them at all. -Candle placement is out of whack. In the original CV1, they were simple to whip. Either straight on the ground, or at the peak of your jump, making it simple for you to keep moving while collecting hearts. In your demo, I've noticed several times where you've missed candles because of their strange placement, and even saw you stop and have to time your whip strike to get it. This terribly breaks up the pace of the game. -The platform where you get the double-shot during the first boss fight is too high up. I saw in your videos when you'd struggle to jump over it.
All in all, just from those, your demo has: wonky animations, awful lighting, poor placement of candles, wonky platform placement. But most of the people I've seen give you praise have left out all this, and simply given you a "This looks great!" or a "Konami, take note!", completely ignoring things that are wrong with it.
The official CV titles don't have lighting problems, or problems with things blending in too much (okay, some do, but there's a reason those are called the bad games). In the popular ones, like Aria of Sorrow, or Symphony of the Night, all enemies, all characters, all items and hazards, they can all be seen clearly. This makes the challenge fair, and fun.
The popular official CVs have great placement of candles, and enemies, and such. Attacking candles in nearly every CV game feels fluid because of the fact that they're put in such simple spots so you can attack the candle, pick up the item, and keep moving, all without stopping.
The official CVs aren't without their problems, but people criticize them for their problems. Fan-games often have their problems completely over-looked. And that's my point here. Fan-view on fan-games is extremely skewed.[/i]
Disclaimer again: The point of the critique above was, again, simply for the sake of my argument. It's not meant to be taken super seriously because I know it's a work-in-progress and you're in the process of ironing things out.
i believe that is a fairly strong indicator that what i'm doing is in no way damaging the brand
As for this, well... You've got quite a few comments doing the opposite of the comments you've shown. Which you've neglected to mention.
http://www.siliconera.com/2016/10/17/demo-now-castlevania-remade-unreal-engine/ (http://www.siliconera.com/2016/10/17/demo-now-castlevania-remade-unreal-engine/) "I don't get the appeal of this, honestly." "Me neither, part of appeal of the original Castlevania was the fact it looked retro. Remaking anything in the Unreal Engine doesn't make it better."
"3D makes me realize how silly it is that you hit lanterns, candelabras and other things that would obviously be way off to the side of the road or on the wall. [...] Overall, this isn't the most terrible thing I've seen for some fan's home project, but he won't get far like this."
"Isn't that... Kinda uncanny ? I don't know i don't think the mix between very realistic graphics and that kind of music and gameplay really work"
"Congrats on managing to look even more drab than the original NES game, I guess?"
"It's honestly awful. It's too dark and controls suck. Hitchy as hell." "So, basically it's an NES Castlevania?" "Wrong. That's playable. This is straight shit."
The point of showing those comments off is that you can't be selective with what comments you pull out, and from where. Just going down the Siliconera articles about this remake, you'll see a significantly high amount of people that are against it. Even on your YouTube videos there are quite a few people that don't like what they see. Having the Konami license on your fan-game will make Konami look better to a lot of people, but when you've got numerous comments like this, it can only damage the brand, about as much as the LoS trilogy did.
a "proper quota?" what, if i fail to make them enough money? that's usually only is a problem if the game has a budget. e.g we spent 50k on this game, so we'll need to earn at least 70k for this project to be worth it. in this case konami spent 0, so the "proper quota" would also be 0. well, that'd be my problem, given how Konami would have to pay me nothing for development.
Using your Kickstarter as a base, you've only managed to get $193 USD off of it. To a company like Konami, that's worthless, and giving the license out for only that wouldn't mean anything to them. Remember: even Konami's free-to-play games make them money.
sure there's other games that have been made into 3d sidescroller platformers, like mega man x, which got slammed pretty hard by critics. and mega man powered up: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/Mega_man_powered_up.jpg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/Mega_man_powered_up.jpg) myself i got the idea of doing it in unreal engine from watching a guy who did mario and zelda in unreal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW4L9CuZ3Ak (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW4L9CuZ3Ak) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgbGgtq-NMc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgbGgtq-NMc) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9I-aTPwda0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9I-aTPwda0) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65JEfWpy7N0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65JEfWpy7N0)
...I don't... what? What is the point of the Mega Man remakes? Those were officially-developed-and-licensed Capcom games, and are completely irrelevant to this conversation. That wasn't the point of what I was saying. I was stating that I'm sure you aren't the only person who has ever tried to do the whole "I'll buy the license!" thing, and presented them with a game.
I get why you posted the Unreal videos, but the bottom three are just tech demos being used for practice. The first one looks pretty decent though, as a fan-game.
i could dig up their phone number here and give them a call: https://konami.com/jobs/en/ (https://konami.com/jobs/en/)
...Okay? So basically what you're saying is you don't know how to get the license, but calling them is a good start? Cuz if you do know how, you're still not showing anyone.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 27, 2016, 10:35:27 PM
well, the undertone you gave me was that my work has no value.
No it wasn't. In the article Kazudra posted up you stressed that remaking CV was a learning curve, learning being for example someone playing with something in their spare time.
This is why I asked point blank why you believed your work on this project should be paid for. As I stated it wasn't an insult, you could have said a number of things such as "I'd like to make video games for a living and this is my starting point" "I'm trying to rejuvenate old IP's that are neglected to hone my skills and bring something new to the oldschool gamers" etc.
Instead you took it personally and answered a question with a question.
I never said your work was rubbish or non-valuable, if you reread the thread comments I put my two cents in and was actually impressed when I'd first seen this project.
My opinions about the financing of this project are similar to what Lelygax's last message comprised.
it works differently in Norway. you are actually paid for educating yourself, and working as a trainee at a company, you also get paid. because students need to live, and you want them to be educated.
That's a good system, I should've studied in Norway, education is through the roof here.
given that scenario, i'd have to reimburse people, and start working on my own project instead. i can't have money that's not legally my own lying around, no matter how hard i worked for it.
I think this is the part where a lot of potential investors may get scared off, no matter how good your intentions are.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 28, 2016, 07:04:15 AM
I don't... what? So now your plan is to sell the game if you get the license? This is the kind of lack of communication that I've been talking about. You don't even have a plan laid out for what you want to do with the game. As a fan-game, it's expected you'll release the whole thing for free. Obviously, as it's not your IP to sell. And yeah, you're keeping the levels free. But only the first three? So the last three are going to be paid downloads? So why go nuts on zangetsu for the "cash grab" comments? I'm really not understanding here.
because a cash grab is getting a lot of money for no effort, which i find insulting, given the amount of time and effort i have put into this.
This is gonna be the bit that absolutely no fan, let alone a fan-game developer wants to hear: Views from fans on fan-games is horribly skewed.[/i] Let me use an example of a fan-game: Castlevania The Lecarde Chronicles 1. I never played this fan-game until recently, even though it's been out for a long time. But I heard all the hype surrounding it, many calling it the best CV fan-game ever created, some even touting it as better than most official CV games. And with how awesome the second one is looking, I decided to try it. The end result? Most of the hype was bullshit.
Lecarde Chronicles was definitely a quality fan-game, and emulated the CV style pretty well. But there were design flaws everywhere that people are seemingly overlooking. Too many traps that blend in with the background too much. Poor enemy placement that results in unfair damage. Non-adjustable controls making custom controls an absolute hassle. The existence of being able to travel downward by jumping down, making it confusing if a downward drop will lead into a death or another area, or possibly another area that results in death. Is Lecarde Chronicles bad? Hell no. It's definitely a really good fan-game. But it goes to show that views over fan-games are incredibly skewed.
yes, but i've seen similar things in commercial games praised into the sky that are sold for 45€. the absolutely worst example of this is Xcom 2 which received an 83% on metacritic. the whole game is pretty much unfairly surprising the player in one way or the other. maybe you wouldn't pay for lecarde chronicles, but a lot of CV fans would.
Now while I know your game isn't finished yet, if I were to judge it the same way I judge LC1, these are the things I'd point out (Disclaimer: I have kept critique of your work to a minimum previously simply because I'm aware it's still a work-in-progress. This critique is purely for the sake of my argument):
-Animations are wonky and look really silly, which completely goes against the atmosphere. -It's too dark. WAAAAY too dark. Some areas it's nearly impossible to see and there are light sources coming from everywhere. Half the time Simon is impossible to see, but you mended this by making his whip glow, but that makes it look even worse cuz now Simon's shadow is spinning around every which way. The panthers in Stage 1 are especially cheap because you can't see them at all. -Candle placement is out of whack. In the original CV1, they were simple to whip. Either straight on the ground, or at the peak of your jump, making it simple for you to keep moving while collecting hearts. In your demo, I've noticed several times where you've missed candles because of their strange placement, and even saw you stop and have to time your whip strike to get it. This terribly breaks up the pace of the game. -The platform where you get the double-shot during the first boss fight is too high up. I saw in your videos when you'd struggle to jump over it.
see i actually need feedback like this, so please don't hold back, get the whip out and start cracking. -it's too dark, yes, but is it too dark everywhere? or is it just specific sections? i think this might be monitor settings actually, because i have no problems seeing the dogs(panthers) on my screen. really, i'm trying to catch the 80s night movie lighting feel like this: (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asset1.net%2Ftv%2Fpictures%2Fmovie%2Fpredator-2-1990%2Fpredator-DI-2.jpg&hash=b7074d2eac2b14621381dc596ee841e4c49077ca) and this: (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgogreenmachine.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F08%2FTMNT-1-Blu-ray-image.png&hash=51c12285f74c1d7a8ed434ad7a540e54a8584f58) -the annoying whip shadows, yes, i'll be looking into that, i think unreal has some tools to fix this. -yes, i noticed there was something terribly wrong with the candle placement on the holywater dropper on the panther section. so i'll go over this and fix it. -the platform is actually the exact height of the original, 200cm tall, the problem is in the original game, when you jumped up, you could "climb" platforms. so if you stand next to a ledge, and press left while jumping, you'd move forward when reaching the top even if jumping straight. i've tried getting a similar "climb" functionality working, but haven't figured it out yet. one thing i tried seemed to work, the only problem was that it allowed you to cancel a straight up jump, and jump forward at any time.
All in all, just from those, your demo has: wonky animations, awful lighting, poor placement of candles, wonky platform placement. But most of the people I've seen give you praise have left out all this, and simply given you a "This looks great!" or a "Konami, take note!", completely ignoring things that are wrong with it.
The official CV titles don't have lighting problems, or problems with things blending in too much (okay, some do, but there's a reason those are called the bad games). In the popular ones, like Aria of Sorrow, or Symphony of the Night, all enemies, all characters, all items and hazards, they can all be seen clearly. This makes the challenge fair, and fun.
so your complaint isn't that the environments are too dark, but that some of the enemies are too hard to see. that's a completely different issue, see some areas in symphony had completely black backgrounds. (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FRdvIgho.jpg&hash=d63c2abdc07fbb168319fbcade40779d3c048dd4)
The popular official CVs have great placement of candles, and enemies, and such. Attacking candles in nearly every CV game feels fluid because of the fact that they're put in such simple spots so you can attack the candle, pick up the item, and keep moving, all without stopping.
The official CVs aren't without their problems, but people criticize them for their problems. Fan-games often have their problems completely over-looked. And that's my point here. Fan-view on fan-games is extremely skewed.[/i]
Disclaimer again: The point of the critique above was, again, simply for the sake of my argument. It's not meant to be taken super seriously because I know it's a work-in-progress and you're in the process of ironing things out.
i believe this is a simple matter of paying vs not paying. as soon as i put up the KS, the complaints started rolling in. still, there's 100 dislikes to 1200 likes, so the people who dislike are in the minority. on itch.io i have 13 000 downloads and 4 out of 5 star rating. and that's despite the issues.
As for this, well... You've got quite a few comments doing the opposite of the comments you've shown. Which you've neglected to mention.
http://www.siliconera.com/2016/10/17/demo-now-castlevania-remade-unreal-engine/ (http://www.siliconera.com/2016/10/17/demo-now-castlevania-remade-unreal-engine/) "I don't get the appeal of this, honestly." "Me neither, part of appeal of the original Castlevania was the fact it looked retro. Remaking anything in the Unreal Engine doesn't make it better."
"3D makes me realize how silly it is that you hit lanterns, candelabras and other things that would obviously be way off to the side of the road or on the wall. [...] Overall, this isn't the most terrible thing I've seen for some fan's home project, but he won't get far like this."
"Isn't that... Kinda uncanny ? I don't know i don't think the mix between very realistic graphics and that kind of music and gameplay really work"
"Congrats on managing to look even more drab than the original NES game, I guess?"
"It's honestly awful. It's too dark and controls suck. Hitchy as hell." "So, basically it's an NES Castlevania?" "Wrong. That's playable. This is straight shit."
The point of showing those comments off is that you can't be selective with what comments you pull out, and from where. Just going down the Siliconera articles about this remake, you'll see a significantly high amount of people that are against it. Even on your YouTube videos there are quite a few people that don't like what they see. Having the Konami license on your fan-game will make Konami look better to a lot of people, but when you've got numerous comments like this, it can only damage the brand, about as much as the LoS trilogy did.
meh, that's the vocal minority of haters who just want to have something to hate. they're everywhere and you can't please them. i looked up one of the guys, and pretty much every single comment he made, he was hating something. Some people are just jealous, and wants to find something to hate to make themselves feel better. One of the main complaints of the original i've heard from many people, is that the controls were bad. in this case i simply cannot please everyone. if i modernize the controls, i'll disappoint the diehards. if i don't i'll disappoint the newcomers. it's actually a challenge to make the controls as unresponsive as the original. i had to fight unreal to remove the smooth transition from standing to walking. i spent a whole weekend removing the ability to control your jump height and control your jump in mid-air. and some complaints are completely ridicolous, like "there are things in the foreground! lucky there are no enemies there" well DUH, i put things in the foreground there BECAUSE there was no enemies there to be hidden by those statues. i had a ton of trouble translating the crushers into 3d, because they are inbetween pillars in the original.
Using your Kickstarter as a base, you've only managed to get $193 USD off of it. To a company like Konami, that's worthless, and giving the license out for only that wouldn't mean anything to them. Remember: even Konami's free-to-play games make them money.
i know 193$ is not enough, that's why the goal was 60k.
...Okay? So basically what you're saying is you don't know how to get the license, but calling them is a good start? Cuz if you do know how, you're still not showing anyone.
to put it like this, the way i got my current job, is i found the contact information of the company i worked for, i sent them an email and some pictures of my work, and voila, i've now worked for 11 years for them. it isn't rocket science. you seem to be making it out like this is some sort of black magic where i have to draw a pentagram on the ground, light candles and do dark unknown incantations to summon konami.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Claimh Solais on October 28, 2016, 02:00:11 PM
yes, but i've seen similar things in commercial games praised into the sky that are sold for 45€. the absolutely worst example of this is Xcom 2 which received an 83% on metacritic. the whole game is pretty much unfairly surprising the player in one way or the other. maybe you wouldn't pay for lecarde chronicles, but a lot of CV fans would.
Fans might. But if it was a game they had to pay for, the complaints would be more vocal. Not to mention if Lecarde Chronicles were a officially-licensed and sold game, it'd no doubt receive critic reviews, and most of them would rate it down for the same stuff I complained about. Those weren't minor one-time things either. They were present the entire time I played.
See, the reason that fan-games can get away with things like that is because people don't pay for them. People are more willing to forgive mistakes in a game if none of their money went toward it.
see i actually need feedback like this, so please don't hold back, get the whip out and start cracking. -it's too dark, yes, but is it too dark everywhere? or is it just specific sections? i think this might be monitor settings actually, because i have no problems seeing the dogs(panthers) on my screen.
You weren't done with the stage yet. I was waiting to see what changes you were making first before I threw some feedback your way, since I didn't know if any of my complaints would still hold water by the time you were done.
so your complaint isn't that the environments are too dark, but that some of the enemies are too hard to see. that's a completely different issue, see some areas in symphony had completely black backgrounds.
Both, actually. Symphony's black area backgrounds are terrible examples, because they were only used for less than 30 seconds of the game as a way to build up tension. Right afterward, they were lit up, and stayed lit up like that. On top of that, you can clearly see everything even though it's dark. Alucard is clearly visible, the wargs are clearly visible, and the candles are clearly visible.
i believe this is a simple matter of paying vs not paying. as soon as i put up the KS, the complaints started rolling in. still, there's 100 dislikes to 1200 likes, so the people who dislike are in the minority. on itch.io i have 13 000 downloads and 4 out of 5 star rating. and that's despite the issues. meh, that's the vocal minority of haters who just want to have something to hate. they're everywhere and you can't please them. i looked up one of the guys, and pretty much every single comment he made, he was hating something. Some people are just jealous, and wants to find something to hate to make themselves feel better. One of the main complaints of the original i've heard from many people, is that the controls were bad. in this case i simply cannot please everyone. if i modernize the controls, i'll disappoint the diehards. if i don't i'll disappoint the newcomers. it's actually a challenge to make the controls as unresponsive as the original. i had to fight unreal to remove the smooth transition from standing to walking. i spent a whole weekend removing the ability to control your jump height and control your jump in mid-air. and some complaints are completely ridicolous, like "there are things in the foreground! lucky there are no enemies there" well DUH, i put things in the foreground there BECAUSE there was no enemies there to be hidden by those statues. i had a ton of trouble translating the crushers into 3d, because they are inbetween pillars in the original.
Except that even if it is a vocal minority, it still doesn't look good if most of the people speaking up about it are people that don't like it. Aside from your YouTube videos, most of the places I look are filled with mostly negative comments. I admit, it appears that a lot of them don't know what "work-in-progress" means, but that's still a good argument.
If you're using purely numbers as a way to gauge interest, then let's use Lords of Shadow as an argument. The game sold pretty damn well, and was the highest selling Castlevania game of all time at its release (I'm not using MoF or LoS2 as an example since I don't know its sales figures). But pretty much anywhere you look, there's nothing but droves of fans hating on it. They're technically the vocal minority, aren't they? I mean, you can't argue with the game's sales.
But the fact is: anyone talking about LoS online doesn't have much good to say about it (generally). And that makes it look not-so-good. It's an issue with pretty much any game that doesn't have much said about it that is good. If people don't have much good to say about something, it turns away potential buyers. You ever go onto Steam, and look at the user reviews and see that they're at "Mostly Negative", so you decide not to buy what you're looking at? It's the same kind of thing.
to put it like this, the way i got my current job, is i found the contact information of the company i worked for, i sent them an email and some pictures of my work, and voila, i've now worked for 11 years for them. it isn't rocket science. you seem to be making it out like this is some sort of black magic where i have to draw a pentagram on the ground, light candles and do dark unknown incantations to summon konami.
You're still dodging the question. Do you or do you not know how to obtain the license? Because as it looks, you clearly don't.
I'm not expecting some magical spectacle, buddy. There's no reason to be a condescending jerk about it. Rather than constantly skirting around the question and making comments like "unknown incantations to summon Konami", just say how to plan to do it. Saying "well, I got their number" and "well, this is how I got my job" doesn't mean anything. Having Konami's number means nothing. I have Konami's number. "this is how I got my job" means nothing. You're not applying for a job. You're trying to purchase a video game license from a major video game company.
So again: Do you or do you not know how to obtain the license? If yes, how? If no, then just say "no".
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Belmontoya on October 28, 2016, 03:11:19 PM
Give the guy a fucking break already!
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Chernabogue on October 28, 2016, 03:57:11 PM
Claimh's points and question about licencing are legit though, since there's no project without it. This is an open forum, he's allowed to have his say just as you're allowed to have yours.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Mystic Myotis on October 29, 2016, 02:14:04 AM
I like the light effects in theory (moon, flare effects), but you want to be careful to not make it too distracting; it is a combat/platformer after all.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 29, 2016, 07:27:11 AM
I like the light effects in theory (moon, flare effects), but you want to be careful to not make it too distracting; it is a combat/platformer after all.
I thought the moonlighting was cool and I like the idea of candles giving off more ambient lighting.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 29, 2016, 07:59:50 AM
Fans might. But if it was a game they had to pay for, the complaints would be more vocal. Not to mention if Lecarde Chronicles were a officially-licensed and sold game, it'd no doubt receive critic reviews, and most of them would rate it down for the same stuff I complained about. Those weren't minor one-time things either. They were present the entire time I played. See, the reason that fan-games can get away with things like that is because people don't pay for them. People are more willing to forgive mistakes in a game if none of their money went toward it.
well, there's plenty of paid games that get away with things like that, simply because people love the franchise, and it's feeding on their nostalgia. as long as the game isn't horrible people will give it favourable reviews.
You weren't done with the stage yet. I was waiting to see what changes you were making first before I threw some feedback your way, since I didn't know if any of my complaints would still hold water by the time you were done.
i'm usually doing 2-3 things at once, so even if i know about an issue, it might end up on the backburner and be forgotten. so it's always nice to have some reminders.
Both, actually. Symphony's black area backgrounds are terrible examples, because they were only used for less than 30 seconds of the game as a way to build up tension. Right afterward, they were lit up, and stayed lit up like that. On top of that, you can clearly see everything even though it's dark. Alucard is clearly visible, the wargs are clearly visible, and the candles are clearly visible.
Except that even if it is a vocal minority, it still doesn't look good if most of the people speaking up about it are people that don't like it. Aside from your YouTube videos, most of the places I look are filled with mostly negative comments. I admit, it appears that a lot of them don't know what "work-in-progress" means, but that's still a good argument.
well sure, "too dark, too dark, too dark, controls suck, 3D sucks" on the flipside you have people saying wow this is fun despite the issues.
If you're using purely numbers as a way to gauge interest, then let's use Lords of Shadow as an argument. The game sold pretty damn well, and was the highest selling Castlevania game of all time at its release (I'm not using MoF or LoS2 as an example since I don't know its sales figures). But pretty much anywhere you look, there's nothing but droves of fans hating on it. They're technically the vocal minority, aren't they? I mean, you can't argue with the game's sales. But the fact is: anyone talking about LoS online doesn't have much good to say about it (generally). And that makes it look not-so-good. It's an issue with pretty much any game that doesn't have much said about it that is good. If people don't have much good to say about something, it turns away potential buyers. You ever go onto Steam, and look at the user reviews and see that they're at "Mostly Negative", so you decide not to buy what you're looking at? It's the same kind of thing.
sure, i bought LOS myself, and have a total of 115 minutes on it. it just didn't feel like castlevania at all, you had to wail on enemies, there was like 500 different whip moves, and there was no gradual increase in difficulty. after that giant frost monster i was thoroughly bored and quit.
but the critical difference here is, LOS tried something new with an old franchise. if people buy an apple, they expect it to taste like an apple. they will be very unhappy if it suddenly tastes like a tomato. with a remake, you don't have that problem. there might be some brown spots, but it tastes like an apple.
So again: Do you or do you not know how to obtain the license? If yes, how? If no, then just say "no".
yes i do know how to obtain a license. i talked to a lawyer, and he pretty much said to do what i already said. call konami, show them your work, work out license terms. and if there are any questions, call me.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: eryson on October 29, 2016, 04:52:36 PM
well, I hope this hot-blooded discussion does not prevent you to finish your project. It is surprising so far. ;D
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: MooMilk on October 29, 2016, 05:38:41 PM
There are fan games that became official releases before. The latest Kings quest started off as a fan game. Megaman x street fighter was a fan game too. Kings Quest actually made money tho. MM x SF was given away for free. The latest sonic cd port was pitched by a fan as a demonstration of his fan engine. He was then commissioned to do not only sonic cd, but sonic 1 and 2, and now sonic mania.
Mrs pacman was oriiginally a fan hack of pacman that became a top selling official release.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: C Belmont on October 30, 2016, 02:08:55 AM
Quote
yes i do know how to obtain a license. i talked to a lawyer, and he pretty much said to do what i already said. call konami, show them your work, work out license terms. and if there are any questions, call me.
Have you contacted Konami yet? I'm kind of curious to know what they said.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 30, 2016, 10:23:10 PM
well, I hope this hot-blooded discussion does not prevent you to finish your project. It is surprising so far. ;D
it put a temporary damper on my enthusiasm. spent the weekend fixing up a bunch of stuff that was broken due to some changes i made, and did some tweaking on level 1. begin area was too long and has been shortened by quite a bit: (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQurJDTl.jpg&hash=bfa519d5d366ca83475594491621852891e4d965) tweaked lighting of the boss room, and made the bossbat look at the player (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1ywzK6Q.jpg&hash=ee308a2487622bd5065e7240f7e00a276f51a59f) tweaked the brick area in level1, did a ton of lightmap improvements, and hopefully managed to clear up some performance bottlenecks too. chandeliers had a bunch of dynamic lights thanks to particle flames, so i swapped those with simpler sprite flames and made the lights static. now considering doing something similar for all of the candles.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: eryson on October 30, 2016, 11:49:46 PM
The entrance is better than before. I particulary liked how the bat shows "expressive" :)
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on October 31, 2016, 10:11:18 AM
new version for download at itch.io framerates should be improved in many areas now. areas that used to stutter on my laptop now plays smoothly.
Good to know, I'll give it a try this weekend.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on November 10, 2016, 01:02:53 PM
just a heads up, i've been contacted by Konami Europe last week for a discussion. i was going to wait until we had that discussion before posting anything here, but there's been some delays. discussion is currently scheduled for friday, so we'll see by then if i get a C&D or am allowed to continue on the project.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on November 10, 2016, 03:26:20 PM
Konami of Europe is probably contacting Konami HQ in Japan about this proposal of yours. Even if the Europe branch likes the idea the Japanese branch is the one who makes the final decision. But I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor ;)
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Claimh Solais on November 10, 2016, 06:15:21 PM
just a heads up, i've been contacted by Konami Europe last week for a discussion. i was going to wait until we had that discussion before posting anything here, but there's been some delays. discussion is currently scheduled for friday, so we'll see by then if i get a C&D or am allowed to continue on the project.
I'd say more than anything it's a good sign. At the very least, they might let you continue working on it even if the deal doesn't happen. Usually companies just slap a C&D down immediately without any heads-up.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Lelygax on November 11, 2016, 02:20:46 AM
If you've been contacted by them without you trying contact first, that is even a greater good sign. I hope all will end well.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on November 11, 2016, 02:00:46 PM
It was Konami UK, and it was bad news, got a C&D. from what i understood, i am allowed to keep the videos and game up for download for now, but not allowed to do any more public development. there's a small glimmer of Hope, Jay from Konami UK will talk with Konami Japan to see if it's possible for me to get a license.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on November 11, 2016, 05:04:48 PM
I did have a feeling that was going to be the case. But at least the C&D isn't as extensive as it could have been.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: eryson on November 12, 2016, 12:46:01 PM
Maybe the konami people was contacted about your kickstarter, so it's why you got a C&D warning. Usually fangames gets gold, since it not have croudfunding envolved.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Lelygax on November 12, 2016, 05:26:53 PM
Maybe the konami people was contacted about your kickstarter, so it's why you got a C&D warning. Usually fangames gets gold, since it not have croudfunding envolved.
He didn't received a C&D yet.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on November 12, 2016, 07:09:06 PM
no i definitely did get a C&D. a mild one, since i am allowed to keep the project up, but definitely a C&D. if i do any updates to it, i'll have to take it down.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: eryson on November 12, 2016, 07:18:57 PM
maybe he acidentally skipped the Reply #112 , but Yeah, it's what i thought :/ So, the continuation this project will depends of what "Jay from Konami UK" will respond to you about reversing that situation? But if you keep updating the game as a personal project without kickstarter etc etc, can you have the chance of the guys allow you to continue?
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: dejawolf on November 12, 2016, 10:01:20 PM
maybe he acidentally skipped the Reply #112 , but Yeah, it's what i thought :/ So, the continuation this project will depends of what "Jay from Konami UK" will respond to you about reversing that situation? But if you keep updating the game as a personal project without kickstarter etc etc, can you have the chance of the guys allow you to continue?
no updates, complete freeze of activity.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on November 13, 2016, 12:44:32 AM
maybe he acidentally skipped the Reply #112 , but Yeah, it's what i thought :/
Oh its really there, for some reason I didn't noticed it earlier, sorry for that.
This sucks, now we need to wait for a response about that license, if they get back to you it is. I know its the last thing that you want to read now, but people that were posting here before criticizing this KS were affraid of exactly this I think, not bashing your efforts, even more because it is the first Castlevania fangame made in 3D that I saw going so far into development. (well we have Castlevania Quest 3D but its not 2.5D and pretty old).
In worst case scenario, while you can't upload updates about this game, you can atleast use what you programmed for some other project if you remove copyrighted material. I wish you good luck.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Pemburu Vampir on November 14, 2016, 09:58:30 PM
A bit off-topic and nothing personal, but if this got a C&D. I wonder why Esco's "hack" haven't get one yet. I mean he's getting money from it.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: X on November 15, 2016, 12:11:48 AM
Maybe he did get a C&D and is just ignoring them.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Claimh Solais on November 15, 2016, 12:17:47 AM
Either that or it's just cuz he's been so under-the-radar with it. You don't ever hear about it unless you follow the blog. So if he hasn't gotten a C&D, it's probably cuz nobody ever talks about it outside of its little bubble. It's about the same with Serio's Castlevania. You barely ever hear anyone outside of Serio's forum talk about the game (though I think it was also brought up on the Bloodstained forum, which I rarely go to anyway). Konami probably doesn't know about them.
Dejawolf did some interviews with Siliconera and such, and the Kickstarter was also a thing, and then said websites also covered the Kickstarter. So Dejawolf's game had significantly more coverage and was definitely above-the-radar, compared to most other fan-games.
That's also why AM2R and Pokemon Uranium got taken down so quickly: they had a crap-ton of coverage from websites everywhere (aside from Nintendo being really anal about fan-games). But a lot of other fan-games of Nintendo IPs (like Psycho Waluigi or Ocarina of Time 2D) are still able to be downloaded or developed since Nintendo likely doesn't even know about them.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: Pemburu Vampir on November 15, 2016, 07:38:28 AM
Either that or it's just cuz he's been so under-the-radar with it. You don't ever hear about it unless you follow the blog. So if he hasn't gotten a C&D, it's probably cuz nobody ever talks about it outside of its little bubble. It's about the same with Serio's Castlevania. You barely ever hear anyone outside of Serio's forum talk about the game (though I think it was also brought up on the Bloodstained forum, which I rarely go to anyway). Konami probably doesn't know about them.
Dejawolf did some interviews with Siliconera and such, and the Kickstarter was also a thing, and then said websites also covered the Kickstarter. So Dejawolf's game had significantly more coverage and was definitely above-the-radar, compared to most other fan-games.
That's also why AM2R and Pokemon Uranium got taken down so quickly: they had a crap-ton of coverage from websites everywhere (aside from Nintendo being really anal about fan-games). But a lot of other fan-games of Nintendo IPs (like Psycho Waluigi or Ocarina of Time 2D) are still able to be downloaded or developed since Nintendo likely doesn't even know about them.
Ah makes sense. I thought only money making fan games gets C&D from Konami. I don't have to talk about Nintendo, they're pretty hostile. But I'm glad AM2R got the chance to be downloaded.
Btw, is this game still heavy? last time I tested it runs pretty slow on my computer.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: zangetsu468 on November 15, 2016, 10:11:05 AM
I don't have to talk about Nintendo, they're pretty hostile. But I'm glad AM2R got the chance to be downloaded.
I do. Every time a fan game comes out that looks like something better or more innovative than Nintendo can achieve, they straight out boycott the shit out of it in the most legal sense possible.
It's interesting to me that PS4 and Xbox have functions to upload gameplay footage to youtube, I wonder if the Switch will allow this. And if it doesn't how will 3rd party developers feel about that? 3rd party fighting games and sports games for example, surely people will have the urge to upload gameplay footage at times. I guess the Switch will "fix their wagon".
I firmly believe AM2R is something beyond Nintendo's wildest dreams and they will NEVER achieve something as solid in a 2d Metroid. I digress, I think Dejawolf was creating a better remake than Konami could have achieved.
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: ProjectDread on November 16, 2016, 11:16:44 PM
I'm sorry to hear about the C&D Dejawolf. As a fellow fan developer myself it's always a shame to hear stuff like this. However, I believe there is still a silver lining to all of this. From what I can tell, all of the assets you are completely custom. All yours. You can literally just rename this project. Maybe change a few details here and there, and call it a "spiritual successor" like that 'Mighty No. Whatever' or 'Bloodstained'.
This doesn't have to mean all of your hard work can't still be put to good use. Just my two cents!
Title: Re: Castlevania level 1 made in unreal
Post by: MooMilk on December 10, 2016, 07:42:31 AM