Castlevania Dungeon Forums

Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: Mooning Freddy on October 11, 2016, 09:59:51 AM

Title: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Mooning Freddy on October 11, 2016, 09:59:51 AM
I might be asking for trouble here, but it seems to me both of the partys' candidates in for the next presidency are a catastrophe. Some of my American friends said they're not voting or voting for a third candidate because they won't support their parties' candidates. Voting may be seen often as choosing the lesser of two evils, but to some the very act of voting for any of those two seems immoral.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Briraka on October 11, 2016, 02:13:44 PM
Eh, Clinton. It's not because I find her appealing, I'm just veeeeeeerrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyy anti-Trump so I'm going to vote for whoever has the most publicity and thus the more probable chance of getting elected.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: theANdROId on October 11, 2016, 04:52:11 PM
Ugh...this year is a mess.  I don't really care for any candidate.  I don't feel like it's a good idea (personally) to not vote, but then I'm still not sure who I wanna support. :-S
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on October 11, 2016, 09:57:35 PM
Green, because Clinton is a horrible candidate.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Dracula9 on October 12, 2016, 11:01:25 AM
I only registered to vote this election because of Sanders, because up until him I really didn't give a shit about voting since it never really felt like anyone involved gave a shit about the right things.

As the election progressed, I learned about Stein and grew to like her for much the same reason.

So despite the very obvious media campaign to make Trump/Clinton into a "vote for me so the other person doesn't win because they're terrible" pissing match rather than a genuine "vote for me because I'll do these things" appeal, I'm sticking to me morals and voting my conscience.

Whether that's Sanders or Stein, I'm not sure yet. But it's going to be one of the two. I registered to that cause, it would feel shameful to abandon my root cause just to participate in the high-school "the other person's bad because they did this" bullshit.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Belmontoya on October 12, 2016, 12:16:02 PM
I'm voting Clinton.

 

Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Gunlord on October 12, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Yeah, Clinton for me as well. I dislike her but for all her ethical failings she strikes me as more stable than Trump.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Flame on October 13, 2016, 09:02:07 PM
My initial choice was Jim "I killed a man" Webb. He was the candidate we needed. But not the one we deserved. He got run out pretty quick though sadly.

My wall 'o text on the rest are as follows:

(click to show/hide)

tl;dr I'd rather have a well meaning fool than an ill meaning genius.

(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55121519.jpg)
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Belmontoya on October 13, 2016, 09:41:58 PM
Tom Hanks is a Clinton supporter and I don't think he would appreciate you using his photo for the punch line of a gross pro Trump rant.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: JR on October 14, 2016, 02:13:47 AM
I think I'm just going to stay home on election day. I've never been more disgusted with politics and the media than I am right now. I know it's a completely defeatist attitude to take, but I really just want no part of this shitshow at all.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Flame on October 14, 2016, 05:16:34 AM
Tom Hanks is a Clinton supporter and I don't think he would appreciate you using his photo for the punch line of a gross pro Trump rant.
What's "gross" about it?

 Freddy asked, I answered. Don't be hatin'.

Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Mooning Freddy on October 14, 2016, 06:26:42 AM
I think you mixed a lot of ideologies here, Flame, but I ain't gonna argue with you too much, I would just say this:
As a bit of a libertarian I think that protectionism is bad generally as it shrinks people's supply and forces them to rely on local production and services, often more expensive and not as efficient as ones that could be imported; at the same time it impedes local economical evolution by preventing inefficient businesses from closing down and providing them initiative to continue being inefficient and expensive.

You also expressed a positive view of populism which made me raise an eyebrow. Populism is very, very bad. It's the political strategy of telling people what they want to hear, even when what they want to hear is unrealistic. Nobody wants to hear, "sorry guys, but I don't think things are going to get much better in the next ten years, we need austerity and higher taxation to balance the bugdet and pay our debts". When politicians feed the people with unrealistic dreams, what you end up with is Venezuela.

About Syria: Many people argue the very reason Russia allowed itself to intervene and made the civil war WORSE is because the West seemed to not have been doing anything, so they siezed the opportunity to intervene and promote their own intersts.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Belmontoya on October 14, 2016, 07:54:57 AM
I work at a college library. since I work on Halloween this year, I was thinking of maybe going to work in costume.

My thoughts instantly drifted to Crusader. probably because I see a LOT of muslims there lately. I dunno. 

I ran it past my boss, although i said "Templar" instead. He laughed, and loved it, said it was something he would wear, but sort of scratched his head because it would probably get the department in trouble. I think he was on to my scheme instantly. I'd get called out as RAYCISS in an instant for a stunt like that.

I guess if I had to ask i already knew the answer

Don't try to hide racism behind supporting his bullshit policies. He has no experience and no realistic policies. He's a phony and everyone knows it.

I'm voting Trump because he had the exact same message on Trade as Sanders, but with a healthy sprinkling of protectionism and nationalism, both of which we are sorely in need of. As far as his views on immigration go, well shit, at least he's got a plan, for the past 30 some odd years, all we do is talk about immigration reform, but do nothing about it. Nothing of any substance anyway. I don't honestly believe he's going to build a wall on the border. I'd be surprised if he does, honestly, but to me it at least shows a willingness to do something about immigration reform in some capacity.

If his biggest sin is just that he's crass, rude, and doesn't have the usual qualifications (law, politics, etc) I'll take the risk.

tl;dr I'd rather have a well meaning fool than an ill meaning genius.

1. Sanders supports Clinton, not Trump.

2. You really think being crass, rude and unqualified are his biggest sins? How about clear cut bigotry, racism, promoting anarchy, and sexually assaulting and degrading women? Not to mention avoiding paying taxes. He's an oopritunist and a hypocrite.

3. You think Trump is well meaning? He's well meaning towards himself and others who live in the 1% top of the economy and that's about it. And even those who would benefit from his bullshit ideas for tax policies don't support him. Look at Buffet and Cuban. Trump wants to kick Meixcans and Muslims out of our country. These are human beings who work hard and want a good life for their families. He also wants to stop taking in refugees when we should be taking in more. These are adults and children who are suffering. And this is just the tip of the iceberg with Trump.

He's a vile bag of the worst kind of human excriment and there's only one reason people want to vote for him and we all know what that is.

That's why I call your rant "gross".

But it doesn't matter anyways. He has no chance in hell of winning because most people with common sense would rather not live in the 1940's.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on October 14, 2016, 11:17:41 AM
Sanders only supports Clinton because they threatened to remove him from several senate panels, and (probably) also run a democratic challenger against him in 2018.  Look for Clinton to lose in a landslide in 2020.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Belmontoya on October 14, 2016, 11:48:36 AM
I'm supportive of Sanders as well.

But he supports Clinton now.

Make excuses all you want. That's the reality. And he made comments that hinted to his support for her long before he lost to her.

I would be happy to see him as President in 2020.

But he cannot win in 2016 and if you pen him in now you're doing him a disservice and helping Trump in the process. It's not worth it, and sanders doesn't want you to do it.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on October 14, 2016, 12:20:01 PM
Huh, funny thing; he also told his supporters that if he ever told them how to vote, that they shouldn't listen to him.

Nice try on playing the fear card, but this isn't 2008 or 2012.  Don't EVER tell another person how to vote.  It's their voice, not yours.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Belmontoya on October 14, 2016, 12:25:46 PM
I couldn't care less how you vote.

Penning in Sanders is a throw away vote. Go ahead and waste your time.

I hate to be the one to pull you down to earth but Sanders is supporting Clinton.

And by the way, I can say whatever I want to say.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on October 14, 2016, 12:31:10 PM
No, I'm voting for Jill Stein.  Yes, you can say whatever you want; but if you said to to my face, I'd just tell you to get out of my face.

PS: Also, I'm very level-headed.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Belmontoya on October 14, 2016, 12:49:27 PM
I have no desire to be in your face.

I'm old enough to remember voting in 2000. I had a lot of friends who regretted voting for Nader instead of Gore after what happened.

That's all I'm trying to highlight.

Sorry. Not trying to offend.



Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Mooning Freddy on October 14, 2016, 12:50:19 PM
Don't get personal, people. This is a debate. :rollseyes:
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Flame on October 14, 2016, 12:50:48 PM
Don't try to hide racism behind supporting his bullshit policies. He has no experience and no realistic policies. He's a phony and everyone knows it.

what makes him a phony, exactly? and what defines "realistic"? what Hillary Clinton and the president say so? Clearly 'establishment" types aren't working, so for better or for worse, there needs to be change.

Quote
1. Sanders supports Clinton, not Trump.
And? I think you misread, I was never a Sanders supporter. I respected him as a candidate, but I never supported him, outside of agreeing with him on some issues.

Quote
2. You really think being crass, rude and unqualified are his biggest sins? How about clear cut bigotry, racism, promoting anarchy, and sexually assaulting and degrading women? Not to mention avoiding paying taxes. He's an oopritunist and a hypocrite.
All I see there are buzzwords. Care to prove any of them?

Also i dont think you know what Anarchy means if you seriously think he is in any way anarchist.

Opportunist? well sure he is. So is Hillary. Being a politician pretty much implicates being opportunist in some way, so i'd say thats a qualification. And dont preach about taxes, because im pretty sure Hillary does it too. The only difference is she has the smokescreen of the Cinton foundation.

Quote
3. You think Trump is well meaning? He's well meaning towards himself and others who live in the 1% top of the economy and that's about it.
As opposed to Hillary who... isn't?

 
Quote
And even those who would benefit from his bullshit ideas for tax policies don't support him. Look at Buffet and Cuban.
And I dont give a hoot what they think. I'm not gonna support Clinton just on their say so. I don't know them, and sure, Warren buffet got rich somehow, but at the same time, Trump must be doing something right if he, coming from a family of generic low-income-housing real estate developers from queens, broke into the manhattan elite and became a luxury real estate developer.

Quote
Trump wants to kick Meixcans and Muslims out of our country.
Wrong: he wants to deport those here illegally, and stop accepting Refugees from parts of the world that are actively trying to kill us, when most defense experts say we have absolutely no way of properly screening them.

Quote
These are human beings who work hard and want a good life for their families.
That doesn't excuse breaking the law and making life harder for those who do things the right way

 
Quote
He also wants to stop taking in refugees when we should be taking in more.
Wow. Taking in more? Seriously? Are you just ignorant to world news or have you not seen how bad Europe is right now? Did you not hear about the New Year's Eve rapes in Cologne? all the crime and culture clash going on in France? Do you really want to see that happen here? Not to mention, we can barely take care of our own people properly and yet we are supposed to care for refugees?

Not to mention, like I already said, there is absolutely NO way to properly screen them. These aren't people with visas or passports, going through customs, these are people with literally no documents and no papers whatsoever, being shipped in by the boatload. We don't know who they are and if they are refugees at all. I seem to be the only one who remembers, back when the refugee crisis was only just starting, back before it was a crisis- that Isis, in one of their video addresses, pledged to hide operatives amongst the crowds of refugees into western countries.

And yet, much like Osama Bin Laden promising in a late 90's interview, to attack America "very soon", everyone seems to have forgotten about it.


 
Quote
These are adults and children who are suffering.
Really? Because all I ever seem to see are adult fighting age males. Why aren't they fighting for their countries?

Not to mention, where are their neighbors? Saudi Arabia is rich, and have more than enough room to take refugees. Why don't they? There's other nearby countries as well who could be doing their part, and yet the west is the only one.


Quote
there's only one reason people want to vote for him and we all know what that is.
Because he represents

1. the working class that Hillary and her party have abandoned, and

2.He's calling for the most common sense positions on foreign policy and domestic policy ive ever seen. I don't want world war 3 with Russia, and i certainly don't want yet another failed "liberation" in Syria.

Quote
That's why I call your rant "gross".
hey man, you believe what you want, but yknow, people are going to have different opinions than you in life. I don't mean to "offend" you with my views. there's no need for us to get this angry about it.

But I have family that lives in France. So I have a front row seat to the stuff going on there in the streets.

I voted Obama the past 2 elections and I was nothing but disappointed by both sides of the coin. Both Neo-Conservatives and Neo-Liberals have ruined the country for the past 2 decades, and I'm tired of their policies.

Quote
But it doesn't matter anyways. He has no chance in hell of winning because most people with common sense would rather not live in the 1940's.
most people prefer not to talk about their political preferences because if they happen to have conservative views, mainstream culture has taught us that it is ok to ridicule them and ruin their lives for it.

My opinion is that the country has been going too far left in the past decade, and for better or for worse, the pendulum needs to swing the other way to restore balance, because the left that i used to feel aligned with has gone absolutely insane.

Quote
Populism is very, very bad. It's the political strategy of telling people what they want to hear, even when what they want to hear is unrealistic.
Well I mean, when you say it like THAT...

I think I may have chosen the wrong word: Populism probably isnt quite what I had in mind. But in general, while just telling people what they want to hear is bad, at least talking about those certain subjects and at least proposing ideas DO lead people to the conclusion that they are being listened to, in a political environment where congress has the lowest approval rating in history and people in general have almost no faith in the political system or the people running it.

Don't get personal, people. This is a debate. :rollseyes:
I think you've opened a can of worms here with this subject, Freddy.

I saw a study today that said that most Americans feel 'stressed" about this election. it was split pretty evenly across both sides of the spectrum, and that social media tended to make their stress worse.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on October 14, 2016, 12:56:35 PM
I have no desire to be in your face.

I'm old enough to remember voting in 2000. I had a lot of friends who regretted voting for Nader instead of Gore after what happened.

That's all I'm trying to highlight.

Sorry. Not trying to offend.





More democrats in florida voted for bush than for nader.  Gore shouldn't have run such a shitty campaign and chosen Joe Lieberman as his running mate, either.

And flame, no, just, no.................

You sound delusional as hell.

Take a deep breath, and step back away from the abyss.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: JR on October 14, 2016, 12:58:31 PM
because the left that i used to feel aligned with has gone absolutely insane.


Ditto. Exactly the same way I feel.


And flame, no, just, no.................

You sound delusional as hell.

Take a deep breath, and step back away from the abyss.

I'd have to disagree. I think he put out his case pretty well.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Mooning Freddy on October 14, 2016, 01:06:38 PM
Quote
But in general, while just telling people what they want to hear is bad, at least talking about those certain subjects and at least proposing ideas DO lead people to the conclusion that they are being listened to, in a political environment where congress has the lowest approval rating in history and people in general have almost no faith in the political system or the people running it.

I can see where you're going with that. Indeed it is good when a politician rises that makes people feel that someone is listening to them. A lot of people on the right feel left out and threatened. I have a friend from the USA who told me how he was unable to continue running his small business, that helped many people, because regulations were introduced that his small company couldn't afford, so he had no choice but to sell it to a larger one. He also said that violent crime rose under Obama because the police was basically dictated to loosen the leash, as the number of immates (especially black young men) is way too high.
Students are feeling that idiocy like safe spaces and trigger warnings are biting hard into freedom of speech.
Being anti-system is a good way to become popular. The problem starts when the person gets elected, and doesn't follow his promises, which dissapoints his voters. Or worse: launches reforms which effectively turns the country effectively into a one-party state.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on October 14, 2016, 01:08:36 PM
Ditto. Exactly the same way I feel.

I'd have to disagree. I think he put out his case pretty well.

For an unhinged sociopath, it sounds great.  For normal people?  Not so much.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: JR on October 14, 2016, 01:12:34 PM
How so?
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on October 14, 2016, 01:21:36 PM
Suggesting a large swath of peoples (arabs) of a ethnic group (semitic) are dangerous to us, when it is a very small portion of the entire population of the middle east are terrorists.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Belmontoya on October 14, 2016, 01:25:00 PM
Flame I don't ridicule people for being Republican. I ridicule people for saying racist bullshit comments and then trying to ignore the fact they've said them. It just turns out that most the people who say stuff like that happen to be Republicans. Sort of like you did on this forum. That's just part of my problem with Trump.

It's pretty sad that you think that it's a funny thing to purposely try to offend Muslim people.  And it's no surprise to me that someone with a sense of humor like that would be a Trump supporter.



Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: JR on October 14, 2016, 01:30:20 PM
Suggesting a large swath of peoples (arabs) of a ethnic group (semitic) are dangerous to us, when it is a very small portion of the entire population of the middle east are terrorists.

What I got from it was that there would be the potential for Isis to smuggle terrorists among refugees (based on their statements), and not that the middle-eastern refugees are terrorists by default.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: JR on October 14, 2016, 01:49:51 PM

Students are feeling that idiocy like safe spaces and trigger warnings are biting hard into freedom of speech.


That's one thing that drives me nuts about what some of the college campuses have been doing recently. Nobody likes being offended, but some of the "outrage culture" out there has been ridiculous.

It seems like part of our generation perceives criticism as harassment, and they don't want to listen to opposing views. But how do you refine your own point of view if you're not exposing yourself to alternate ones? Doesn't necessarily mean that anyone has to change what they think, but looking at something from all sides is how we grow, and - dare I say it - empathize with a viewpoint that may not be our own.

To me, trigger warnings and the like are protecting people from having their ideas challenged. That just seems like a potentially dangerous thing to me.

...eh, sorry about the rant. I've been following a lot of the latest goings-on in political correctness, and the way it's unfolded just kind of bothers me.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on October 14, 2016, 01:54:31 PM
What I got from it was that there would be the potential for Isis to smuggle terrorists among refugees (based on their statements), and not that the middle-eastern refugees are terrorists by default.

Outright believing that ISIS can carry this out on a large scale (which they can't) is not only unbelievably stupid, but buying into the fear that ISIS fails to project on it's own through social media.
But I do agree with the 2nd post, though.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: JR on October 14, 2016, 02:02:39 PM
I never meant to imply anything about the scale on which they'd carry out something like that, but I don't think it equates to broadly painting middle-eastern refugees as generally being terrorists, either.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Mooning Freddy on October 14, 2016, 02:10:44 PM
Totally agree with you. JR. I just don't understand why this butthurt culture is a thing.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Dracula9 on October 14, 2016, 02:12:56 PM
Totally agree with you. JR. I just don't understand why this butthurt culture is a thing.

Aftereffects of the self-esteem movement, probably.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Flame on October 15, 2016, 01:39:05 PM
The problem starts when the person gets elected, and doesn't follow his promises, which dissapoints his voters. Or worse: launches reforms which effectively turns the country effectively into a one-party state.
You mention this, and this is basically how I feel about Obama. I voted for him both times. He ran in 2008 on the promise of "hope" and "change".

And 8 years later, 95% of the change has been for the worse, and hope is lower than it was when he took office. (personal opinion anyway)

I don't let the Republicans off easy on this either, they are just as much to blame. The post-Reagan neo-conservatives that make up the party are absolutely terrible, much like the post-Clinton neo-liberals.


It's pretty sad that you think that it's a funny thing to purposely try to offend Muslim people.  And it's no surprise to me that someone with a sense of humor like that would be a Trump supporter.


Well I remember a time when Humor was allowed to be offensive. Ever watch 80's Eddie Murphy? or 70's George Carlin?

Also, my parents come from Argentina, where 99% of the population is catholic of Italian/Spanish decent, and crude offensive humor is fine. So to me, the idea of dressing as a Crusader in a place where I see lots of muslims, seems fine to me, controversial, sure, but thats what makes it interesting.

Quote

That's one thing that drives me nuts about what some of the college campuses have been doing recently. Nobody likes being offended, but some of the "outrage culture" out there has been ridiculous.

let's put it this way:

"A Redneck, a Black man, and a Jew, all walk into a College campus... And can't wait to leave"


Sounds like a bad joke, and yet truth is stranger than fiction- Larry the Cable Guy, Chris Rock, and Jerry Seinfeld, want nothing to do with performing at college campuses because of how insanely PC they are.

Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Dracula9 on October 15, 2016, 01:56:32 PM
I think it needs to be stipulated that Murphy and Carlin had messages to send beyond simply "ha ha it's offensive but it's funny."

Murphy back then was carrying some of the Richard Pryor torch, and I don't think I have to explain what Pryor's social messages were.

Carlin just didn't give a shit; no holds barred, everything sucks, and everything's fair game, and the man's intellect and social observance were through the root--so much of his surface-level "shock offensive" humor had serious deeper meanings in there.

Obviously the point of bringing them up was to illustrate how popular they were despite what many might consider about their work today, but there was far more to their acts than "oh that's offensive--funny as hell though, let's toss it in!"
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Mooning Freddy on October 15, 2016, 03:22:20 PM
Comedians have an important role in criticizing social phenomena. And Carlin was really good at that. PC culture, however, doesn't like being criticized because apparently even constructive criticism can be considered offensive now.

What I think the biggest problem is that school education doesn't teach us how to think. I believe I acquired a lot of my critical skills in College; but those are skills you need to have from a young age. In school they teach you that "everybody has an opinion and has the right to voice it", but only later you truly understand that opinions are not equal and that some are more right than others, that scientific truth is merely "what is true to the best of our knowledge" and that you need to compare and develop sharp logical skills to understand which ones are better.

A lecturer of mine showed us a modern philosophy book only a week ago. He talked about how impressed people are by the book and his author. Then he said he knows the book to be absolute crap, and that its author has no idea what he's talking about. "You may disagree with me" he told us, "But remember this: if a person has a PHD, this still doesn't necessarily mean what his theories aren't crap."

Powerful words.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Belmontoya on October 15, 2016, 08:05:23 PM
This isn't the 70's or the 80's, you're not in Argentina and you're no professional comedian.

It's pretty amusing to watch people with these racist tendencies struggle to adapt to modern society that holds people to a higher standard of mutual respect. It's like they're incapable of it. They're so used to spewing the crap that they don't even smell the shit right under their own noses. It's sad actually.

I guess not all birds can fly.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Flame on October 15, 2016, 08:34:46 PM
Quote
This isn't the 70's or the 80's, you're not in Argentina and you're no professional comedian.

The irony in this is that it's ok for others to pretend like they are back in their home countries and push their beliefs on a host country, but thats ok.


also, I would like to point out, from a post a few posts ago, that i forgot to address- that "islam" is not a race It is a Religion/Political system.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Belmontoya on October 16, 2016, 06:50:30 AM
The irony in this is that it's ok for others to pretend like they are back in their home countries and push their beliefs on a host country, but thats ok.


also, I would like to point out, from a post a few posts ago, that i forgot to address- that "islam" is not a race It is a Religion/Political system.

Nice try. It's called cultural racism (islamaphobia). Keep trying to justify your hate man. Like I said, it's amusing. Especially when you fancy yourself to be teaching people.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Flame on October 19, 2016, 10:42:48 AM
Nice try. It's called cultural racism (islamaphobia). Keep trying to justify your hate man. Like I said, it's amusing. Especially when you fancy yourself to be teaching people.
Don't move the goalposts. You specified Racism. It is not. Also, "Islamophobia" is entirely justified. because last i checked, Buddhists didn't declare holy war against the west. Jews aren't blowing up busses or buildings in the name of God. And Christians aren't decapitating people for being Gay.

It is entirely reasonable to be "phobic" of a culture that is entirely opposed to your own. Islam as a culture and Political system, (sharia) has no place in western society, because it is entirely incompatible with what we consider western values. The issue is that in the countries that many of these people come from, there is NO distinction between the church and state. Sure in the US we put "In God we Trust" on money and swear on the bible, but realistically, we still have a reasonable separation of church and state. In places like Saudi Arabia, there is no difference. The law is not a separate document- the law IS the holy book. And when the entire population's culture is also based on the same holy book, then trying to integrate into the west proves challenging, because it means abandoning a part of your religion. It means accepting Democracy and Separation of Church and State over Islam. And they don't want to accept that, because that's like asking a Christian to stop being Christian. And this has only gotten worse over the past decade, as Saudi Arabia has taken over the narrative, and pushed it's ultra conservative version of Islam on the Muslim world. all the Imams are educated in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia publishes all the Qurans. And it teaches that the Quran has to be followed 100% to the letter or you are an infidel. Before, we didnt really have this problem. Muslim countries in the middle east like, Iraq, say, or Egypt, were, despite being Islamic, mostly secular. Because their respective dictators were mostly secular, and thus pushed that. So the people who immigrated from those countries, were mostly secular, they ddint take their book 100% at face value, the same way most Christians dont take their religion 100% seriously.

This is the issue here. There is a solid wall preventing proper integration. I mean, I've seen American muslims who have been here for decades, who have suddenly become hardline conservatives, now Imagine how someone being ripped from their country because of war, and just dropped in the middle of a decadent society will feel? Do you think they'll be willing to "assimilate" to gay marriage, or secularism? where porn is freely accessible on the internet, and women can dress as skimpily as they want?

TL;DR, it's not a "phobia" if there's something to genuinely be scared of. we can't seriously talk about Muslims in America and their integration into western culture without having a serious discussion about the radicalization of the religion as a whole, and how it is tied with culture and politics in it's homeland.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Dracula9 on October 19, 2016, 12:45:15 PM
I'm stepping back in for a moment to say that I seriously want to give you kudos, Flame, for not only understanding but outright specifying the notion of "the faith itself isn't all dangerous and crazy, dangerous and crazy people got in charge and made everyone live by it until it was" that so many people seem to forget these days.

*glances over at two copies of Qu'ran on the shelf, next to a KJB, a Dhammapada, a Bardo Thodol, multiple alchemy manuscripts, demonology codexes, historical grimoires, and the Art of War*

Yup, it's a book's fault for making people nuts or hateful or violent, all right. Ain't no way in hell people's interpretations and prejudices and purposes of use factor in. :rollseyes:
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on October 21, 2016, 09:09:50 AM
I'm voting yes for amendment 2, as well.

Edit: Voted for Jill Stein and amendment 2 on Sunday.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Kale on November 09, 2016, 01:02:44 AM
Trump won.

That's all there is to it.

Cher and Madonna or Lady Gaga or something is crying in the back of MSNBC, people are threatening to kill themselves, though they won't, the pussies. I'm waiting for the rest of the fall out. Some one is urging people to snipe trump. And lots of laughing.
I'm stepping back in for a moment to say that I seriously want to give you kudos, Flame, for not only understanding but outright specifying the notion of "the faith itself isn't all dangerous and crazy, dangerous and crazy people got in charge and made everyone live by it until it was" that so many people seem to forget these days.

*glances over at two copies of Qu'ran on the shelf, next to a KJB, a Dhammapada, a Bardo Thodol, multiple alchemy manuscripts, demonology codexes, historical grimoires, and the Art of War*

Yup, it's a book's fault for making people nuts or hateful or violent, all right. Ain't no way in hell people's interpretations and prejudices and purposes of use factor in. :rollseyes:

I agree. Though, it seems in Islam, there are a lot of them or at least that seems to be the case, that look at anyone who doesn't follow it as less than themselves. A lot of people are also giving them free pass to do so as well.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Flame on November 09, 2016, 01:22:17 AM
That was Impressive. That wasn't just a Trump victory.

That was a clean sweep of the Presidency, the House, AND the Senate.

I definitely didn't expect that. Though i suppose it shouldnt be surprising that the same people who voted Trump voted straight down the ticket, or at least, against the Democrat column in general.

I look forward to seeing the documentary on this election by NatGeo 20 years from now.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Dracula9 on November 09, 2016, 02:25:08 AM
[insert GAME OVER MAN, GAME OVER joke here]
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: VladCT on November 09, 2016, 02:44:06 AM
Taking bets on the last thing we see in our lifetime being a big-ass mushroom cloud explosion, anyone in? :P
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on November 09, 2016, 06:02:46 AM
$100 bucks says that this country collapses in maybe 50 years or less from massive debt and infrastructure crippled by almost constant cyber-attacks, start on or shortly after inauguration day.

You're witnessing the death of the American empire, folks.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: X on November 09, 2016, 09:30:27 AM
Quote
You're witnessing the death of the American empire, folks.

Or just the beginning of it  :o

Any americans who want to immigrate to Canada, now's the time.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Kale on November 09, 2016, 09:45:42 AM
Taking bets on the last thing we see in our lifetime being a big-ass mushroom cloud explosion, anyone in? :P
You say that... but russia and clinton are the ones who threatened war over each other.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: TatteredSeraph on November 09, 2016, 10:26:28 AM
Welcome to the Sixth World, anyone?  Big Megacorp guy takes over.  Or, it could be about to be the birth, albeit again a few years late, of the Vampire Hunter D world?
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on November 09, 2016, 10:34:06 AM
You say that... but russia and clinton are the ones who threatened war over each other.

Nah, countries are too scared to nuke each other; the next world war will be fought with cyber-attacks and counter-cyber-attacks.
Welcome to the dark side of the digital age.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wECpG22xx4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wECpG22xx4)
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Kale on November 09, 2016, 10:56:24 AM
So...... regardless of anyone being in office, we won't see a mushroom cloud soon.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Belmontoya on November 09, 2016, 11:53:10 AM
I'm confused, disgusted, angry, dissapointed, and...

...heartbroken.

Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on November 09, 2016, 03:04:00 PM
So...... regardless of anyone being in office, we won't see a mushroom cloud soon.

More like all the lights at several high traffic intersections turning green at the same time, and god knows what else.  Given what Trump has said about China, do you think that they will take it laying down?  HELL NO.  They will look for excuses to wage cyber warfare starting on day 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCnwfaN6dOQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCnwfaN6dOQ)
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Kale on November 09, 2016, 10:55:06 PM
Are you naive enough to think that countries across the world aren't already engaged in cyber warfare and espionage?
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: X on November 09, 2016, 11:14:54 PM
Cyber warfare is already a thing. But probably not to the scale that Highwind is suggesting. Either way Trump's gonna make a mess before his first year of his first term is up. Heck, maybe even less then that.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Gunlord on November 09, 2016, 11:28:02 PM
Well, all we can do now is hope for the best. As a friend of mine told me, Trump's a showman before anything else. Maybe it'll turn out all the crazy stuff he said was just to get his base to vote for him, and as president he'll be an unexceptional moderate. We'll have to see.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on November 10, 2016, 12:16:16 AM
Best of luck to America. Just don't bring the rest of the world down with you.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on November 10, 2016, 05:37:50 AM
Are you naive enough to think that countries across the world aren't already engaged in cyber warfare and espionage?

Who's to say that we're in the "passive" state of cyber warfare?  Like I said before, other countries always look for an excuse to launch a full scale cyber attack.  The only country under constant attack is UAE, which gets 5% of the world's cyber attacks lauched at it.
http://www.thenational.ae/uae/technology/cyber-attacks-will-get-violent-in-the-future-uae-security-expert-warns (http://www.thenational.ae/uae/technology/cyber-attacks-will-get-violent-in-the-future-uae-security-expert-warns)
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Lelygax on November 10, 2016, 07:57:47 PM
You say that... but russia and clinton are the ones who threatened war over each other.

And yet people likes to ignore this.

Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Claimh Solais on November 10, 2016, 09:55:03 PM
For what it's worth, Trump seems to have done a bit of 180 on his stances over everything. His policies have all changed on his website (http://donaldjtrump.com/policies/), and he appears more Libertarian leaning Liberal than anything. The "BAN ALL MUSLIMS" for example is completely gone. It states he'll lower taxation across the board, but that upper class will still pay their fair share (though kept at an appropriate rate to still encourage competition). Child care would be tax deductible, etc.

One of my brother's friends actually worded everything better than I did.

Quote
Donald Trump has completely changed his platform over the course of one night.

He literally bait and switched the entire Republican platform he had, and is surprisingly more Libertarian leaning Liberal with his policies.

He replaced "The Wall" with comprehensive immigration reform, essentially making "The Wall" a footnote more than a key point.

The "ban on muslims" is no longer there.

He eliminated tax reductions for the rich. Added a tax deduction for child care that includes stay at home parents, shifted from his coal focused energy platform to a clean energy stance, eliminated his pro-life stance, seems to be adopting a more libertarian immigration stance, changed his stance on veteran benefits to increase benefits for veterans, supports increased health care for the mentally ill, and is supporting more money going to general education. To name a few.

To reiterate on "the wall" issue; The 10 point plan still shows the wall, but his key issues area changed and the wall and his new immigration ideas contradict one another which kinda looks like the wall is moving out of the picture for a legitimate way to deal with it.

To re-reiterate, that is from his pre-elected stance, his now-elected stance has completely contradictory statements which looks like he's weeding that out with immigration reform instead.

Sources:
donaldjtrump.com/policies/

Holy shit well played.

Any chance Trump played America? Coming from his actual website, I don't really doubt it. But if it's true, I'll at least feel a little more hopeful rather than whatever else I was feeling previously.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on November 10, 2016, 10:53:10 PM
I'll believe it when I see it in action.  :rollseyes:
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on November 10, 2016, 10:54:32 PM
I agree with Highwind.
Anyway, if America was played, he just used his reality show tactics to win.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Lelygax on November 10, 2016, 11:38:12 PM
I never took that "build a wall" part seriously. To me it sounded like when a parent says "You'll stay there until you eat all your vegetables" but one time or another they will need to back off. I still think that he will be harsh with illegal immigrants, but not build a wall.

Also good find Claimh, I think it have something to do with his conversation with Obama.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Kale on November 11, 2016, 12:23:36 AM
Best of luck to America. Just don't bring the rest of the world down with you.

Yea, like Germany right? Oh wait, it's a shit hole filled with rapist and rape apologists. Or Sweden's will take rapist over racists and anti rape bracelets? Or Great Britain's Rotherham rape gangs?

Who's to say that we're in the "passive" state of cyber warfare?  Like I said before, other countries always look for an excuse to launch a full scale cyber attack.  The only country under constant attack is UAE, which gets 5% of the world's cyber attacks lauched at it.
http://www.thenational.ae/uae/technology/cyber-attacks-will-get-violent-in-the-future-uae-security-expert-warns (http://www.thenational.ae/uae/technology/cyber-attacks-will-get-violent-in-the-future-uae-security-expert-warns)

The world has long been in this situation, and it will continue to do so.

I love how so may people already decided he's a failure and Clinton would be a savior even before he's in office.

EDIT: you know what it reminds me of? Obama getting the Nobel Peace prize not even a year into his presidency.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on November 11, 2016, 01:04:33 AM
Didn't vote for her, I voted for Jill Stein, so I don't care about the protesters that are upset.  Where were they in July when Bernie and his supporters got screwed over?  Oh yeah, telling us to sit down and shut up.  He would've won Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania easily.

North Dakota, Montana, Florida, and Arkansas legalized medical marijuana; California, Massachusetts, Nevada fully legalized it, Maine's question 1 is in the lead so far, but too close to call yet.  Arizona Marijuana Legalization, Proposition 205 failed to get a majority vote.

Also, Florida amendment 1 went down in flames, Amendment 3 Property tax exemptions for first responders   
passed and Amendment 5 Property tax breaks for senior citizens   also passed, as well.

All in all, not a half bad election actually.

And yeah, he should return that prize ASAP, doesn't make the Norwegian Nobel Committee look good at all.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Inccubus on November 11, 2016, 02:17:37 AM
Welcome to American Plutocracy.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Dracula9 on November 11, 2016, 03:07:33 AM
I think he's a piece of shit as a person, but I'm withholding judgment as to his job capacity until January 21st and beyond.

I'm not optimistic, but I also won't discredit the possibility that his bravado during the campaigns was purely a play to get votes--since his stances have done nearly a complete 180 on his official pages already, there's some credence to this, I think.

He isn't and never was my pick, but my distaste for him as a person doesn't yet have probable cause to extend to his ability in office.

I expect the worst, but I hope for the best--that way I can't be disappointed, only pleasantly surprised.

That all being said, he's said he plans on killing TPP--well, shit, more fucking power to him on that front. That thing's pure fucking evil and needs to die in flames.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Flame on November 11, 2016, 06:01:09 AM
well anyone who's seen his 80's interviews can see how he really is. the brash loud showman is just a character he's developed over his TV carreer, much like Arnold Schwarzenegger is defined by being the Terminator.

The real Trump is much more subdued and calm.

we'll see I guess. I always hope for the best
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Kale on November 11, 2016, 06:32:50 AM
I expect the worst, but I hope for the best--that way I can't be disappointed, only pleasantly surprised.

This is how I've viewed this election, regardless of outcome. Be it Hillary, Trump, Johnson, Stein, etc. Because the one person I would have possibly voted for wasn't even considered..... And that is...... The REAL most interesting man in the world.

I do think Trump is less worst than the others, but who knows what'll happen.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Claimh Solais on November 11, 2016, 07:32:39 AM
This is how I've viewed this election, regardless of outcome. Be it Hillary, Trump, Johnson, Stein, etc. Because the one person I would have possibly voted for wasn't even considered..... And that is...... The REAL most interesting man in the world.

I do think Trump is less worst than the others, but who knows what'll happen.

Pretty much the same here. Unlike pretty much everyone around me, I didn't feel despair or sadness or anything at the result election. I just felt nothing. I knew for quite a while that I wasn't going to be happy with the result either way, so I've braced for it for a really long time.

I'm, more than anything, just trying to remain hopeful.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on November 11, 2016, 07:51:30 AM
So, no one has anything to say on the mass legalization of marijuana that just happened?   :o
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Kale on November 11, 2016, 08:03:17 AM
Wasn't legalized where I lived, so no comment. I've only tried it once anyway. And it gave me a huge headache..... but I was drinking, so that's probably why.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on November 11, 2016, 08:52:39 AM
You most likely got crunked: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=crunk (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=crunk)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GD6qtc2_AQA/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: TheTextGuy on November 11, 2016, 08:53:57 AM
Pretty much the same here. Unlike pretty much everyone around me, I didn't feel despair or sadness or anything at the result election. I just felt nothing. I knew for quite a while that I wasn't going to be happy with the result either way, so I've braced for it for a really long time.

I'm, more than anything, just trying to remain hopeful.

I too, felt that same feeling of ennui, and I live up north in Canada where our election's already finished!  Specifically starting around when Sanders lost to Clinton in the DNC leadership race due to some biases within said party.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Kale on November 12, 2016, 08:35:39 PM
I've never blacked out. And I have full memory the day after. But I did have to lie down for like 30 min to an hour after getting my headache.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: GuyStarwind on November 13, 2016, 02:23:44 PM
So, no one has anything to say on the mass legalization of marijuana that just happened?   :o

It's been legal in Oregon for a bit now and I don't really look politically beyond it unless it's something nationwide
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: Kale on November 14, 2016, 11:42:28 PM
Pretty much the same here. Unlike pretty much everyone around me, I didn't feel despair or sadness or anything at the result election. I just felt nothing. I knew for quite a while that I wasn't going to be happy with the result either way, so I've braced for it for a really long time.

I'm, more than anything, just trying to remain hopeful.

This is usually how I view it. But PC culture has been annoying me for some time now, and it's being pushed hard in the last 2 years at least, so I'm glad Hillary lost. It's one of the reason I think Trump is better. Though who knows if he'll join them in the PC culture or not. He's already reigning in some of his comments which isn't a horrible thing but it isn't great either.
Title: Re: Americanos, are you voting this year?
Post by: theANdROId on November 15, 2016, 03:55:28 PM
I'm much less worried about the person in office than I am the people that follow either side.  Whatever power the office does or does not hold, I believe it's "We the people" that make or break this country.