Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Lumi Kløvstad on September 03, 2017, 09:02:27 AM
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For instance, it seems rather silly to try to discuss Dracula's origins in canon if you're not at the very least familiar with Lament of Innocence.
So, bearing that in mind, what would you say are the games that are required reading material to be able to confidently (but generally) discuss the Castlevania franchise? For me, Lament is a no-brainer, but I'd also say Castlevania (1986), Simon's Quest, Castlevania 3, Rondo, Symphony, and Aria of Sorrow would all make up the bare-minimum of required understanding to be able to competently engage in Castlevania canon discussions. Every game adds something to the story, of course, but I feel like these are definitely the ground shaking ones where the before and after release periods are irreconcilably different.
Lament gives us Drac's origin story.
Castlevania 3 gives us the first encounter with Dracula and a Belmont, and introduces Alucard (who's kind of a big deal round these parts).
Castlevania (1986) is the OG Castlevania, no skipping allowed.
Simon's Quest was the game that establishes Dracula can, in fact, come back.
Rondo of Blood (sorta) established that humans are the ones responsible for his return -- he doesn't (usually) just show up all "hey I'm alive again" (except when he does). It's also the first game in which we see any of Dracula's personality beyond flinging bats and fireballs at a Belmont.
Symphony of the Night, apart from being a sequel to Rondo of Blood, was our first real look at Dracula other than as a generic doomsday bad guy, as well as the forces around him. It also explains his final descent into villainy post-Lament and is the first reference to Castlevania as something more than a bunch of bricks and mortar. Among other plot developments that would all be expanded on later in other games.
Aria of Sorrow showcases Dracula's karmic redemption, and really serves as a bookend to the franchise by closing on many of the same themes that Lament opens Dracula's story on.
What do you think?
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Playing Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure for the NES is pertinent for understanding all Castlevania canon.
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"Discussing the franchise" is a rather generalized term for me. To me it is very clear that people "discuss the franchise" at different levels: Either by commenting on the gameplay, either by talking of canon, either by going nuts over obscure information, etc etc. Some people also prefer they own headcanons and interpretations over official information, so this expression becomes quite tricky to define (and this is why you'll get people saying it "makes sense for Sonia to be Trevor's mother therefore fuck IGA Sonia is Trevor's mother to me". Though they are discussing franchise, you cannot have a discussion about official info with someone who refuses to acknowledge it).
If you're talking canon discussion, this is what I consider to be the bare minimum required of research for you to get the main ideas:
-Lament of Innocence
-Castlevania I/Chronicles
-Symphony of the Night
-Portrait of Ruin
-Aria of Sorrow
With these you have the origin of Dracula, the Belmont generational conflict, involvement of Dracula's son with a past Belmont and his vendetta with his father, the reason for Dracula's war on humanity, the passing of the whip to another family, and the reincarnation of Dracula after his destruction. Each of the games after Lament cover a bit of the canon info previous to these games, so you're not exactly completelly lost when someone references something previous to these games.
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I'd say in addition to plottwist' list, Harmony of Dissonance is also handy to have played. Given it touches upon the nature of Dracula's "resurrection", but that's all I'll say.
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- wai-wai world
- kid dracula
- judgment
- the scripts for every episode of captain n that featured simon belmont
(i don't see the point in repeating the actual ones that've all been duly noted already, so here are the obvious best-story 'vania thingies that you snobby uppity canonites just don't grasp because your heads are 2far up yer asses (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FetEBdr5.png&hash=e75e168bb4f952d354bd96254c785346d67232c1) 8) (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FetEBdr5.png&hash=e75e168bb4f952d354bd96254c785346d67232c1) 8) (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FetEBdr5.png&hash=e75e168bb4f952d354bd96254c785346d67232c1) 8) (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FetEBdr5.png&hash=e75e168bb4f952d354bd96254c785346d67232c1))
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- the scripts for every episode of captain n that featured simon belmont
This
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Obviously. Wai Wai World is a classic.
In truth I'm astonished someone else other than me even remembers that game.
Also Kid Dracula is best prequel with much richness of historical data. Very agreed.
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- wai-wai world
- kid dracula
- judgment
- the scripts for every episode of captain n that featured simon belmont
ayyy you forgot Akumajou Dracula X Peke. The GREATEST
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fuck you're right i have brought dishonor upon my house
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This thread is going nowhere. lol.
Just read everything on the wiki.
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"Discussing the franchise" is a rather generalized term for me. To me it is very clear that people "discuss the franchise" at different levels: Either by commenting on the gameplay, either by talking of canon, either by going nuts over obscure information, etc etc. Some people also prefer they own headcanons and interpretations over official information, so this expression becomes quite tricky to define (and this is why you'll get people saying it "makes sense for Sonia to be Trevor's mother therefore fuck IGA Sonia is Trevor's mother to me". Though they are discussing franchise, you cannot have a discussion about official info with someone who refuses to acknowledge it).
Pretty much this. There are so many fans out there that have their own headcanon regarding the series one must be precise with his/her inquiry.
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(and this is why you'll get people saying it "makes sense for Sonia to be Trevor's mother therefore fuck IGA Sonia is Trevor's mother to me".
Yeah I always hated that whole the Belmont's being linked to Dracula, and that would give Trevor some vampire blood. I don't know why people always do that, its sooo over used, and the point of the Belmont's are meant to be ultimate Light,
and it really takes away from Alucard as he is the light of the darkness. But if you just slap Trevor with the same brush it just takes something away from the whole story, so I can see why IGA got rid of Legends as a game, but I do wish he just put Sonia some where else in the timeline.
For instance, it seems rather silly to try to discuss Dracula's origins in canon if you're not at the very least familiar with Lament of Innocence.
So, bearing that in mind, what would you say are the games that are required reading material to be able to confidently (but generally) discuss the Castlevania franchise? For me, Lament is a no-brainer, but I'd also say Castlevania (1986), Simon's Quest, Castlevania 3, Rondo, Symphony, and Aria of Sorrow would all make up the bare-minimum of required understanding to be able to competently engage in Castlevania canon discussions. Every game adds something to the story, of course, but I feel like these are definitely the ground shaking ones where the before and after release periods are irreconcilably different.
Lament gives us Drac's origin story.
Castlevania 3 gives us the first encounter with Dracula and a Belmont, and introduces Alucard (who's kind of a big deal round these parts).
Castlevania (1986) is the OG Castlevania, no skipping allowed.
Simon's Quest was the game that establishes Dracula can, in fact, come back.
Rondo of Blood (sorta) established that humans are the ones responsible for his return -- he doesn't (usually) just show up all "hey I'm alive again" (except when he does). It's also the first game in which we see any of Dracula's personality beyond flinging bats and fireballs at a Belmont.
Symphony of the Night, apart from being a sequel to Rondo of Blood, was our first real look at Dracula other than as a generic doomsday bad guy, as well as the forces around him. It also explains his final descent into villainy post-Lament and is the first reference to Castlevania as something more than a bunch of bricks and mortar. Among other plot developments that would all be expanded on later in other games.
Aria of Sorrow showcases Dracula's karmic redemption, and really serves as a bookend to the franchise by closing on many of the same themes that Lament opens Dracula's story on.
What do you think?
On this yes it is there are many ways to interpret the franchise, and in my Esperance its often a mix of official stuff and the player's head canon. and it may be just me, but CV seem to be one of the few franchise that fans often refer to there own head canon instead of the Official canon.
But some would say what is the real official canon?
As there was an early canon and as lose as it was, some parts of it seemed to be carried on in to other games. so again some would say that IGA changed, refined and made things fit better.
And one of the many things he did was give both Dracula and Alucard new back story's.
Dracula who was a pure evil cultist who sold his own sons soul for MORE power,
Became a grief stricken man who's life was ruined, and wanted to make the world pay.
And Alucard went from a man who's was made in to a vampire by his fathers greed thus he wanted to stop his fathers evil acts. To upholding his mothers final wish.
So I think that's why the Cv Fans often make there own head canon, cos some like the idea the count being pure evil from the start no hit of love or humanity,
but some love seeing him as a Tortured soul. who was once a good man.
same with Alucard, but I have to say that I think IGA's story works a lot better for him, but I find it hard to choose when it comes to the Dracula
Soo I think it really depends on what cannon your taking about.
But this really has been an interesting and thought provoking topic.
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On this yes it is there are many ways to interpret the franchise, and in my Esperance its often a mix of official stuff and the player's head canon. and it may be just me, but CV seem to be one of the few franchise that fans often refer to there own head canon instead of the Official canon.
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So I think that's why the Cv Fans often make there own head canon, cos some like the idea the count being pure evil from the start no hit of love or humanity,
A big part of this is that the mere existence of the official timeline, which was never intended to be made publicly available as goes the story, is incredibly divisive among several large groups of fans. The fandom has never been particularly united about how we feel about it, and probably never will be. Iga, for his part, later said that making a unified timeline was one of the biggest mistakes he feels he'd made during his time as steward of the timeline. Another issue is that Castlevania explains the specifics of its lore rather exceedingly badly. There's a lot of "it's all there in the manual" making it so that the games alone are no longer the sole purveyors of important plot points; in order to fully understand WTF is going on, you've got to trek around a lot across virtually every creative medium in the modern world. There's novels, CD audio dramas, soundtrack liner notes, manuals and beyond -- all of them adding their pieces to the vast puzzle. Past all of that, several key plot elements are inexorably tied up in cultural understandings unique to the Japanese people, which shuts out American fans and European ones by default. It's very complex and difficult to keep track of, though it is admittedly not as bad as a few other series. In my experience, it's the single most divisive part of the fandom, and I've been on both sides in the past.
Personally, while I no longer insist on merely my own headcanon, I do make a conscious decision to disregard anything that is not said in the games themselves -- there's just too much work for me in pursuing the full picture anymore: too many sources and not enough hours in the day (and frankly, I don't really care that much anymore about the nitty gritty of the canon). But, the nebulous and blocky appearance of the lore (at least for anyone not familiar with the extravideogame sources) also leads to a lot of attempting to fill in badly explained plot holes (that don't really exist) through personal interpretation; not that the official sources do a much better job of explaining things competently. There's a lot of bad writers who have worked in this franchise. So, sometimes the fans actually come up with alternate explanations that honestly make more/easier sense.
This is par for the course for a 30 year old franchise with dozens of games and a decidedly late-to-the-party attempt at trying to tie everything together.
Castlevania in the early days was a lot more like George Miller's Mad Max series -- it was treated more like a collection of folk tales that all revolved around a common character (Dracula and the varying generations of Belmonts who opposed him) that largely lined up but had several moments of notable inconsistencies because the focus was on the individual stories rather than how they fit together (and possibly numerous or unreliable narrators, in a sense, much like folklore tends to be). Iga's attempt to make a unified timeline flipped the formula on its head, and suddenly these pieces that were not necessarily meant to fit perfectly together suddenly had to, which resulted in a confusing mess of retcons and unexpected "revelations". While we mostly have this mess finally sorted, it took almost 15 years to do it and there are sizable factions within the fandom that either passively or actively hate the finished result.
As I always say regarding video games: "Do what brings you fun. If you're not having fun, do something that is." But even if you don't ascribe to every detail of the official canon (I still don't), one should definitely try to be familiar with the major storytelling beats and major events, because there are some events in the timeline that no matter your perspective are as objective as things can get in a fictional series. By all means, there's tons of little stuff you can choose to ignore, but the big stuff? That pretty much has to be agreed on.
Hammering out what those major events are is essentially the intended purpose of this thread.
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Yeah I always hated that whole the Belmont's being linked to Dracula, and that would give Trevor some vampire blood. I don't know why people always do that, its sooo over used, and the point of the Belmont's are meant to be ultimate Light,
IGA kind of did the same thing with the Vampirekiller whip. Before his idea was implemented I always thought it a holy weapon that only a Belmont could use due to their mystic properties of their blood. Now we have an alchemical weapon that isn't quite so holy as it houses a tainted soul. To me that's no different then Trevor Belmont being 1/3 vampire. Others will no doubt see things differently then I and that's fine. Each to his/her own.
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IGA kind of did the same thing with the Vampirekiller whip. Before his idea was implemented I always thought it a holy weapon that only a Belmont could use due to their mystic properties of their blood. Now we have an alchemical weapon that isn't quite so holy as it houses a tainted soul. To me that's no different then Trevor Belmont being 1/3 vampire. Others will no doubt see things differently then I and that's fine. Each to his/her own.
It actually makes more sense to me than "Belmonts can kill Drac because they are related to Drac". Consider that the tainted soul in question is Sara Trantoul's, and hers was only "tainted" in a semantics sense because she was bitten by Walter -- Sara herself was amazingly pure, noble-hearted, and seems to have been a very pious Christian woman. She chose to sacrifice herself so that her beloved could spare others from her own fate. Biologically tainted by the mark of the vampire, absolutely. But she allowed herself to die before the "rot" could affect her actions, so I can't say her soul was really tainted. I think it is in fact, if not Biblical, at least something that speaks of the best of her values and beliefs. That's why the whip seems to "hate" vampires in particular, and this also seems to tie into its ability to retain a memory of its last heir (or at least that's what I inferred from what is presented in the games).
So I think it's actually VERY different than the Belmonts being related to their enemy.
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I feel there is NO canon! It's all multiple universes occasionally touching at certain points. The most chaotic universe -- the one warped and bent every which way -- would be the IGA universe. So you have the Arcade universe, which was a bit of a dead-end. Then you have the (S)NES universe which was its own little reality. You have the parallel Gameboy universe which is positioned in such a way that it collides with the NES universe briefly. You have the IGAverse, which chaotically weaves back and forth, clashing with the (S)NES universe on a couple occasions, making it look like the canonical universe -- but it's likely not the true canonical universe. Then you have the MercurySteam universe, which also collides with the (S)NES universe. The (S)NES universe is the one the other universes all collide with (excluding Arcade universe), so in a way the (S)NES universe is the true canonical universe and all the others were alternate realities that branched to or from the (S)NES universe. Iga's timeline is just the chronology of his parallel universe. In his universe, Leon was the forefather of the Belmont clan and the first to fight Dracula (Mathias). But in the (S)NES universe either there never was a Leon or there was but he never encountered Dracula.
So I say screw it, who the hell cares? Saying Iga's universe is the true canon is like saying Shakespeare's plays around the Hundred Years War are the true history. Iga is in his own fantastical universe.
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I feel there is NO canon! It's all multiple universes occasionally touching at certain points. The most chaotic universe -- the one warped and bent every which way -- would be the IGA universe. So you have the Arcade universe, which was a bit of a dead-end. Then you have the (S)NES universe which was its own little reality. You have the parallel Gameboy universe which is positioned in such a way that it collides with the NES universe briefly. You have the IGAverse, which chaotically weaves back and forth, clashing with the (S)NES universe on a couple occasions, making it look like the canonical universe -- but it's likely not the true canonical universe. Then you have the MercurySteam universe, which also collides with the (S)NES universe. The (S)NES universe is the one the other universes all collide with (excluding Arcade universe), so in a way the (S)NES universe is the true canonical universe and all the others were alternate realities that branched to or from the (S)NES universe. Iga's timeline is just the chronology of his parallel universe. In his universe, Leon was the forefather of the Belmont clan and the first to fight Dracula (Mathias). But in the (S)NES universe either there never was a Leon or there was but he never encountered Dracula.
So I say screw it, who the hell cares? Saying Iga's universe is the true canon is like saying Shakespeare's plays around the Hundred Years War are the true history. Iga is in his own fantastical universe.
That's why I created v"The Sig"v ????
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So I say screw it, who the hell cares? Saying Iga's universe is the true canon is like saying Shakespeare's plays around the Hundred Years War are the true history. Iga is in his own fantastical universe.
Clearly many people care. And a canon is important to tell a cohesive storyline. Speaking for me, I like the "folk tales" concept, but I like more plotlines that have a start, a middle and an end, even if the end is a cliffhanger (the current state of the main canon). No problem in preferring any other concept above this, though.
Though I get your previous comment's spirit (that there is not one single TRUE canon-- this really IS true, what there is is a MAIN canon, not a TRUE one), I don't get why you and many others try their darndest to kill the canon. Like, live and let live, y'know? Unless Konami themselves come forth and say there is no canon, then you got nothing. IGA's canon, like it or not, is the main canon for as long as it includes the quintessential, classic Castlevania games. Doesn't meant you should like it, but you gotta recognize a lot of people do care about it, is what I'm saying.
And, just so I'm not misunderstood, I'll repeat: There doesn't exist a "true" canon, only a main one. It's the main one because it carries the base to build the CV story, themes and gameplay elements from, aside from containing the majority of games. But that doesn't mean the other games are "less" true. They may be "less important" if you're talking "main plot", but are far from being "less important" in general, as cornerstones of the franchise. To be a true Castlevania, all a game needs is the IP title and official license. Yes, even if it means the game is a cursed pachislot.
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I don't get why you and many others try their darndest to kill the canon.
because "i don't like it" equates to "the facts surrounding it don't exist", duh
that's like one of the cornerstones of the internet, ya silly goose
i swear to john cleese if anyone takes this post seriously and responds in turn i will make your nipples explode with delight
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i swear to john cleese if anyone takes this post seriously and responds in turn i will make your nipples explode with delight
.... I'm into that ;)
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because "i don't like it" equates to "the facts surrounding it don't exist", duh
that's like one of the cornerstones of the internet, ya silly goose
i swear to john cleese if anyone takes this post seriously and responds in turn i will make your nipples explode with delight
I think cornerstone of human kind is a better description, but yes.
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Clearly the only game that's really required is this one ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgXabTBhiFs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgXabTBhiFs)
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Did Simon just boot a Nun out of his way? lol.
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That's...You...I...
:-/
I'm just gonna go to bed. I don't even know what to make of that!
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Skate or Die combined with Castlevania.
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Evolution skate boarding. Fun tiny hawk clone. Also had solid snake, frogger and a ton of other characters and levels from games. It had 3 Castlevania levels.
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More importantly, was that Jean-Claude Van Fucking Damme as Dracula?
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This thread is going nowhere. lol.
Just read everything on the wiki.
While the wiki is helpful, there's some inaccurate info there. And playing a game is a quite different experience than reading a wiki
Answering the thread, I think every game of Iga's storyline should be played/read to understand the universe as a whole