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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Reinhart77 on October 15, 2019, 07:44:15 AM

Title: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on October 15, 2019, 07:44:15 AM
Couldn’t find the original thread, so here’s a new one.  Where in the world is Castlevania Season 3?  I’m all ready for a Halloween watch, but might end up rewatching the first two seasons instead.  At least we know it “is” coming since they’re talking about it at conventions, but it feels late if it’s too much after Halloween.  It’s gonna be a disappointing Halloween if we don’t get something Castlevania related.  I hope they can sqeaze in Grimiour of Souls outside of Canada by then.  Or maybe get the Season 2 soundtrack?  At least we got the Bloodstained backer poster and sound track in time.

Oh, and thank Konami Godbrand wasn’t named Mathias Cronqvist.  Wonder how that name got Ellis thinking about a Viking Vampire.  Is Cronqvist norse?

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/10/13/castlevania-warren-ellis-talks-adapting-video-game-working-with-netflix-dracula-more-interview/ (https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/10/13/castlevania-warren-ellis-talks-adapting-video-game-working-with-netflix-dracula-more-interview/)

Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: whipsmemory on October 15, 2019, 12:36:15 PM
Wow, thanks Konami then  :P..! This makes me wonder that probably he still has not the slightest idea that Mathias is actually Dracula, which makes me worry a bit tbh. But I likes his work on the show so far. That was an interesting read, thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Super Waffle on October 15, 2019, 07:40:05 PM
What if the Netflixvania gets a pachislot game before it gets a third season?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on October 16, 2019, 12:02:18 AM
The most interesting part is Konami actually drawing a "red line" on the use of Mathias Cronqvist which even the writers of the show thought was weird since Konami apparently has been cool with them adapting and putting their own spin on the IP.

Its just weird that Mathias Cronqvist (who is the IGAvania canon Dracula) was off limits since now that IGA is gone you would think they would not care, after all they showed us that Leon Belmont (who was also a IGA creation) is in the anime's canon so why make Mathias off limits?

As it stands now my only conclusion is that maybe they wanted the anime team to keep the "door open" for the origin of this version of Dracula and thus having the writer throw away the name to a completely different character may have not been a wise move in Konami's eyes.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: X on October 16, 2019, 09:32:14 AM
I liked how Warren Ellis mentioned he is a fan of the old Hammer horror films and when he saw CV for the first time his mind took him straight to those classic films. Well CV was based on those movies so he made the connection very easily  :)

Quote
Its just weird that Mathias Cronqvist (who is the IGAvania canon Dracula) was off limits since now that IGA is gone you would think they would not care, after all they showed us that Leon Belmont (who was also a IGA creation) is in the anime's canon so why make Mathias off limits?

I personally don't care if Mathias is off-limits as he was never the true CV Dracula to begin with. And you'll note that the Mathias Cronqvist name only ever appeared in LoI and was never used in any other IGAvania since (don't know about Judgement though). Maybe that was also Konami's doing as they probably didn't agree with IGA on that front. Speculation of course but interesting none-the-less.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on October 16, 2019, 02:01:27 PM
What if the Netflixvania gets a pachislot game before it gets a third season?
Good point.  We’re about due for a new pachislot game lol.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Belmontoya on October 16, 2019, 03:28:52 PM
Did they replace Trevor Morris yet? I hope so.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on October 17, 2019, 01:56:19 AM
y  :)

I personally don't care if Mathias is off-limits as he was never the true CV Dracula to begin with.

Subjective but whatever, to each their own I suppose, I will always stand by IGA's interpretation since he is the only one who at least ATTEMPTED to make a coherent story out of the series the best he could.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: whipsmemory on October 17, 2019, 12:10:52 PM
The most interesting part is Konami actually drawing a "red line" on the use of Mathias Cronqvist which even the writers of the show thought was weird since Konami apparently has been cool with them adapting and putting their own spin on the IP.

Its just weird that Mathias Cronqvist (who is the IGAvania canon Dracula) was off limits since now that IGA is gone you would think they would not care, after all they showed us that Leon Belmont (who was also a IGA creation) is in the anime's canon so why make Mathias off limits?

As it stands now my only conclusion is that maybe they wanted the anime team to keep the "door open" for the origin of this version of Dracula and thus having the writer throw away the name to a completely different character may have not been a wise move in Konami's eyes.

I think you misunderstood ( or maybe I did...) but I think they said no to having an unrelated and new character (which was Godbrand) named Mathias Cronquivist. If he wanted to tell the origin story he could have got green light in adapting Mathias to become Dracula. It’s just using a name so important on the lore on a random original character which was off limits for Konami ( and I’d agree with them )
t
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on October 18, 2019, 12:22:49 AM
I think you misunderstood ( or maybe I did...) but I think they said no to having an unrelated and new character (which was Godbrand) named Mathias Cronquivist.
t

Yea you misunderstood dude, I completely understood that, hence this part of my post,

Quote
As it stands now my only conclusion is that maybe they wanted the anime team to keep the "door open" for the origin of this version of Dracula and thus having the writer throw away the name to a completely different character may have not been a wise move in Konami's eyes.

Namely the part of my post about Konami not possibly wanting them to use Mathias Cronqvist on a completely different character (aka Godbrand) and why it may have not been a seen as a wise move on their part hence them blocking it.

So in short yes no misunderstanding here my main point was speculation on WHY they would not want them to waste that name on Godbrand.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: whipsmemory on October 18, 2019, 07:04:18 AM
Yea you misunderstood dude, I completely understood that, hence this part of my post,

Namely the part of my post about Konami not possibly wanting them to use Mathias Cronqvist on a completely different character (aka Godbrand) and why it may have not been a seen as a wise move on their part hence them blocking it.

So in short yes no misunderstanding here my main point was speculation on WHY they would not want them to waste that name on Godbrand.

Sorry then, totally misunderstood with you meant on the second part of your post ^^’
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Foffy on October 18, 2019, 09:00:54 PM
The most interesting part is Konami actually drawing a "red line" on the use of Mathias Cronqvist which even the writers of the show thought was weird since Konami apparently has been cool with them adapting and putting their own spin on the IP.

Its just weird that Mathias Cronqvist (who is the IGAvania canon Dracula) was off limits since now that IGA is gone you would think they would not care, after all they showed us that Leon Belmont (who was also a IGA creation) is in the anime's canon so why make Mathias off limits?

As it stands now my only conclusion is that maybe they wanted the anime team to keep the "door open" for the origin of this version of Dracula and thus having the writer throw away the name to a completely different character may have not been a wise move in Konami's eyes.

Presumably they've been working on the concepts for the show penned all the way back in 2007, when IGA was producer and Ellis had to get approval through him. I recall he had to scrap and start over about seven times. I remember we've known about the goat fucking line, the one that appears in the first episode of the first season for nearly a decade now.

I think it's amazing to see they kept things in place for when this was planned to be three animated films released on DVD instead of starting all over with Netflix's support.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on November 02, 2019, 01:46:55 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/comicbook.com/anime/amp/2019/11/02/castlevania-director-shares-season-3-netflix-sneak-peek/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/comicbook.com/anime/amp/2019/11/02/castlevania-director-shares-season-3-netflix-sneak-peek/)

Well, they just finished mixing episode 9 of season 3, so progress.

They mentioned the episode was huge, so I wonder if that is the reason they “missed” Halloween haha.  I for one don’t like binge watching, so I wish they just released episode 1 earlier and then released a new episode every week.  That’s Netflix for you though.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on November 03, 2019, 02:33:17 PM
Doesn’t look like there’s any hope of getting this in the next two months, but for sure 2020.  And they’re making a cool Indian mythology animation.


https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/11/03/warren-ellis-netflix-india-heavens-forest-castlevania-season-3-2020/ (https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/11/03/warren-ellis-netflix-india-heavens-forest-castlevania-season-3-2020/)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Holy Diver on November 10, 2019, 09:19:48 AM
https://youtu.be/-InX4RVq8FA
A panel thingy. Season 3 teaser was shown at the end, but it was censored in this video. Anyone know of any leaks of that particular teaser?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on November 26, 2019, 11:06:43 AM
Season 3 should be dropping next week lol

https://www.superherohype.com/tv/472505-castlevania-season-3-will-hit-netflix-next-week (https://www.superherohype.com/tv/472505-castlevania-season-3-will-hit-netflix-next-week)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on November 27, 2019, 10:48:09 PM
Hmph... this should have been dropped a month ago. Most especially not in December. lol
Anyway, I'll still watch it.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on November 30, 2019, 08:16:03 PM
Is Cronqvist norse?

Nearly. It's a Swedish name meaning "Crown Branch", usually associated with noble blood, which would make sense as he was the strategist for a knightly order back in the day. The name itself seems to refer to being a "branch" of the crown family; e.g nobility with royal connections.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on December 01, 2019, 10:57:11 PM
Thanks.  I’m gonna start thinking of him as Godbrand Cronqvist from now on haha.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: GuyStarwind on December 09, 2019, 09:12:40 PM
I should be excited for season 3, but I thought season 2 was just "eh".
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: The Puritan on December 10, 2019, 05:42:22 AM
Might be cool if a later season with a different Belmont (Simon or Richter) has an opening that recaps the origin of the Belmont clan, ala Phantom 2040. Excuse the low quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJfbnObTEkw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJfbnObTEkw)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on December 10, 2019, 04:10:38 PM
I'm kind of worried they're just gonna ape SoTN again, with Trevor and Sypha standing in for Richter and Maria, and Isaac for Shaft.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: KaZudra on December 11, 2019, 08:57:15 PM
I'm kind of worried they're just gonna ape SoTN again, with Trevor and Sypha standing in for Richter and Maria, and Isaac for Shaft.
I'm more worried if Netflix is gonna Axe/Censor it, seems to be Netflix's trademark of not knowing what's good for their own content.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Abnormal Freak on December 12, 2019, 02:11:46 PM
Does Netflix censor their shows though? 'Cos man, season 3 of GLOW was borderline pornographic. Watch it for AAA++++ tiddies 'n' azz and even a wanger or two.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on December 12, 2019, 08:52:05 PM
I'm more worried if Netflix is gonna Axe/Censor it, seems to be Netflix's trademark of not knowing what's good for their own content.
Meh... Way things are heading I'd be fine with them cutting it at 3 seasons.  I don't need more of the Belmonts playing second fiddle to Alucard.  Not interested.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on December 13, 2019, 03:32:38 AM
Meh... Way things are heading I'd be fine with them cutting it at 3 seasons.  I don't need more of the Belmonts playing second fiddle to Alucard.  Not interested.

I at least want a season that covers Old Man Christopher Belmont, since ol' Chris has always gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to the actual narrative of his story.

Hell, finish the show with a season that hits up Simon's Quest. First episode or two can cover the events of the first Castlevania, and at the end, we can finish the series with that iconic shot of Simon kneeling at Dracula's grave, a final end to the nightmare (in that timeline, at least).

One thing I DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT is more focus on the Castlevania 3 cast beyond Trevor's involvement in Curse of Darkness, since it seems like we'll be getting a version of that next.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: angevil on December 14, 2019, 02:16:26 AM
I wish to see the Soma season! I love the Sorrow games.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on December 14, 2019, 03:49:52 AM
Meh... Way things are heading I'd be fine with them cutting it at 3 seasons.  I don't need more of the Belmonts playing second fiddle to Alucard.  Not interested.

The way I see it Trevor's central season was season 1 while Alucard got season 2 and its not like Trevor an the belmonts got completely neglected since we got the introduction of their sacred whip as well as a nod to their origins with Leon, I get that some fans prefer belmonts to everything but fact is Alucard is a fan favorite so its not that weird to see him to have gotten more focus this season after only having 1 episode in the one before it.

But its not like Alucard is in the entirety of CV events, if they adapt past season 3 than we can still get a possible CV1 or CV2 adaption with Simon Belmont or maybe even a CV Adventure adaption with Christopher, seems weird to give up on the show just because Alucard got some time to shine after only having 1 episode the previous Trevor oriented season.

Me personally I'm not giving up on this series just because my favorite character did not get time to always shine, I'm a huge Alucard but I did not complain once about Alucard only appearing proper at the end of season 1 and should it continue past season 3 I would totally be onboard with them adapting events that he isn't even in such as the ones I listed above with the hopes of them someday adapting all the major events through the series to the very end with the Sorrow games.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on December 14, 2019, 06:13:13 AM
You seem very impartial, Dark Prince Alucard.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on December 14, 2019, 06:19:22 AM
You seem very impartial, Dark Prince Alucard.

Thanks for glossing over my point about how I would be completely fine with a season without Alucard in it at all. :P

My point flew completely over your head but whatever lol.

Unlike yourself I'm not so blindly partial to the point of where I would be ok with the show being cancelled just because my favorite character did not get more screentime, just because I'm a Alucard fan does not mean I can't be impartial with the Anime and the events they adapt, you on the other hand seem to be the one incapable of being impartial since your willing to drop the show due to your character not getting the screentime you want him to have while I on the otherhand would be fine with newer seasons not having Alucard in it at all, to be honest I would want them to adapt the next few seasons towards events with Simon or Christopher and have Alucard take a long break until they eventually circle back to it with a hypothetical SOTN adaption.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on December 14, 2019, 06:44:23 AM
I thought it was completely out of place when Alucard made that penis joke. Like come on

Shoulda been reserved for someone like Grant*, whom was completely omitted from the series altogether. And I don’t think we’ll see Death at all, at least in a speaking role.

*if they’re using the excuse of “we didn’t know what to do with him,” well then, just make him the Han Solo of the series; someone that may not have no personal vendetta against Dracula but make him involved by association anyway, and towards the end have him play a viable role in his defeat like aiding the heroes in breaching the castle. That’s how I would’ve done it at least
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: X on December 14, 2019, 10:22:20 AM
I have no real issues with Alucard getting some more screen time. What I did have an issue with is that he was the one to deliver the fatal blow to Dracula. SotN was for Alucard to do that,  Not CV3. Trevor was the one to end Dracula in that game while the others lent him their assistance. I think this is also what AlexCalvo meant when he made his comment.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Belmontoya on December 14, 2019, 11:27:05 AM
I thought it was completely out of place when Alucard made that penis joke. Like come on

Shoulda been reserved for someone like Grant*, whom was completely omitted from the series altogether. And I don’t think we’ll see Death at all, at least in a speaking role.

*if they’re using the excuse of “we didn’t know what to do with him,” well then, just make him the Han Solo of the series; someone that may not have no personal vendetta against Dracula but make him involved by association anyway, and towards the end have him play a viable role in his defeat like aiding the heroes in breaching the castle. That’s how I would’ve done it at least

No time to figure out how to include Grant. But here's this guy named Godbrand that no one gives a dick about that gets all this screen time. Ugh.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on December 14, 2019, 02:20:37 PM
No time to figure out how to include Grant. But here's this guy named Godbrand that no one gives a dick about that gets all this screen time. Ugh.

Here's this guy named "Thinly Veiled Peter Stormare Who Is Always Welcome In Everything Because He's Hilarious and Has a Lot of International Appeal and Name Recognition". And Godbrand dies halfway through the season, so he's not actually there that long. He's also there so that Dracula's generals essentially have A voiced character, otherwise they're all mutes (which I'm ticked about, but I'll live).

Sorry but, they made the right call. Grant's most interesting stuff happens after Dracula's dead, and he doesn't really contribute that much to the fight. His greatest legacy is helping to rebuild and lead Wallachia after Dracula's death (which gets sabotaged just a few years later by Dracula's Curse, but he gave it the ole' college try, bless). Grant also has the unfortunate distinction of being a character that most players tend to skip over or drop asap, and routinely comes up in polls and surveys as the most forgettable of CV3's cast of characters, and he usually ranks poorly across the cast of the series as a whole, little better than guys like Maxim Kischne and Reinhardt Schneider.

By including Carmilla, Hector, and Isaac, they'd essentially maxed out on main characters. Adding more would have started to stretch the season, which already has rather a lot happening in a short span. By introducing Sticky Pirate to the main cast, they take time away from what's already happening to explain why he's important, and giving him enough screen time to make him feel like he contributes something. It also torpedoes the character dynamic between the 3 mains we already had and forces a new one to be developed, all of which takes time, and Season One is 4 half hour episodes and Season 2 is 8. Where do you suggest they put all that? It's not like they can phone up Netflix and be like "we need to grossly inflate the budget and get more episodes and add six months of production time because there's this one guy we HAVE to include". Most production companies aren't keen on people who ask that, either, so the very act of asking may have been Adi Shankar risking his job.

With the episodes they had to work with, cutting Grant was absolutely the right production decision. Nothing they could do would please everyone, but this was definitely the best compromise they could make.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Belmontoya on December 14, 2019, 03:14:12 PM
I just don't want to see Godbrand in anything ever is all.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on December 14, 2019, 05:24:02 PM
Thanks for glossing over my point about how I would be completely fine with a season without Alucard in it at all. :P

My point flew completely over your head but whatever lol.

Unlike yourself I'm not so blindly partial to the point of where I would be ok with the show being cancelled just because my favorite character did not get more screentime, just because I'm a Alucard fan does not mean I can't be impartial with the Anime and the events they adapt, you on the other hand seem to be the one incapable of being impartial since your willing to drop the show due to your character not getting the screentime you want him to have while I on the otherhand would be fine with newer seasons not having Alucard in it at all, to be honest I would want them to adapt the next few seasons towards events with Simon or Christopher and have Alucard take a long break until they eventually circle back to it with a hypothetical SOTN adaption.

Your fanboy is showing.  I never mentioned anything about screen time, nor is Trevor my favorite character.  He is however supposed to be at least useful in a fight against Dracula.  Stop making up opinions to fight against.  You're coming off as obscenely snooty.  And how gracious of you to be cool with them theoretically leaving Alucard out of stories he was never a part of...

I am not at all happy with the way they've taken this show, for many reasons, and as a life long fan of the games, I would prefer it just end, rather than continue to prattle on without respecting the source material. 🤷

You need to learn how to handle differing opinions.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on December 14, 2019, 06:04:11 PM
Your fanboy is showing.  I never mentioned anything about screen time, nor is Trevor my favorite character.  He is however supposed to be at least useful in a fight against Dracula.  Stop making up opinions to fight against.  You're coming off as obscenely snooty.  And how gracious of you to be cool with them theoretically leaving Alucard out of stories he was never a part of...

I am not at all happy with the way they've taken this show, for many reasons, and as a life long fan of the games, I would prefer it just end, rather than continue to prattle on without respecting the source material. 🤷

You need to learn how to handle differing opinions.

Your definition of fanboy is baffling, so because someone has a favorite character that means they are a fanboy who's opinion on anything related to that character automatically is biased and should be written off as nothing accordingly.....ok?

But we are having a discussion, I can handle differing opinions just fine and have being handling it just fine, I'm only calling it how I see it when it comes to you since you apparently felt the need to reply to my post insinuating that my opinion is mute since I can't be impartial when it comes to Alucard which is just BS for reasons I already listed, If I was the fanboy you so desperately want to portray me as I would have been complaining like crazy that Alucard only got 1 episode in season 1 or I would be asking them to somehow shoehorn Alucard into the events of Simon's or Christopher since after all this anime does already take liberties with the source material so why not?

My point is that I don't care if Alucard is the star of this show one bit, they can cut him out of the next season entirely and that would suit me just fine, my point was towards you apparently wanting the show to end just because you did not get what you want and I just find that weird and close-minded is all, thats just my opinion on the matter and you can disagree with that but if your coming here trying to muddy my opinion simply because I happen to have a username with Alucard in it than that is just the kind of logic I can't get behind and will call it out.

If I where having a conversation about Juste Belmont with someone who had Juste Belmont in their username I would not be be close-minded and simply call them nothing more than a fanboy who can't be impartial and thus their opinion is mute on the subject, just not the way I would handle things but clearly your different.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Belmontoya on December 14, 2019, 07:23:06 PM
Here's this guy named "Thinly Veiled Peter Stormare Who Is Always Welcome In Everything Because He's Hilarious and Has a Lot of International Appeal and Name Recognition". And Godbrand dies halfway through the season, so he's not actually there that long. He's also there so that Dracula's generals essentially have A voiced character, otherwise they're all mutes (which I'm ticked about, but I'll live).

Sorry but, they made the right call. Grant's most interesting stuff happens after Dracula's dead, and he doesn't really contribute that much to the fight. His greatest legacy is helping to rebuild and lead Wallachia after Dracula's death (which gets sabotaged just a few years later by Dracula's Curse, but he gave it the ole' college try, bless). Grant also has the unfortunate distinction of being a character that most players tend to skip over or drop asap, and routinely comes up in polls and surveys as the most forgettable of CV3's cast of characters, and he usually ranks poorly across the cast of the series as a whole, little better than guys like Maxim Kischne and Reinhardt Schneider.

By including Carmilla, Hector, and Isaac, they'd essentially maxed out on main characters. Adding more would have started to stretch the season, which already has rather a lot happening in a short span. By introducing Sticky Pirate to the main cast, they take time away from what's already happening to explain why he's important, and giving him enough screen time to make him feel like he contributes something. It also torpedoes the character dynamic between the 3 mains we already had and forces a new one to be developed, all of which takes time, and Season One is 4 half hour episodes and Season 2 is 8. Where do you suggest they put all that? It's not like they can phone up Netflix and be like "we need to grossly inflate the budget and get more episodes and add six months of production time because there's this one guy we HAVE to include". Most production companies aren't keen on people who ask that, either, so the very act of asking may have been Adi Shankar risking his job.

With the episodes they had to work with, cutting Grant was absolutely the right production decision. Nothing they could do would please everyone, but this was definitely the best compromise they could make.

Nah I don't agree.

Grant should have been introduced as a cursed villain like he is in cv3. This could have been a great character evolution to unfold and sidesteps the problem of introducing too many heroes at once in a season.

It can't be a matter of too many characters when they are adding in their own crappy characters like Godbrand who would fit in better with the WWF than he does CV. That excuse is nullified by his very existence. Grant could have filled the role they decided to give to him. It was just a bad call imo.

Sort of like not using any CV theme in the music until season two and then when they do it's a Simon's Quest theme and not a CV3 theme was a bad call.

But what do I know. It's all good either way. I just like to make fun of Godbrand.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: X on December 15, 2019, 11:07:50 AM
They could have left out Carmilla. Her character isn't supposed to appear in the CV universe until Simon's Quest (which interestingly enough takes place only a few years after the original Carmilla novel) and makes sense chronologically. And I can see that having introduce Grant by means of an enemy (his cursed form), to freeing him from said curse would allow the character some substance. There could have been a couple of a episodes for Grant;

Episode 1) introduction of monster Grant/conflict/freed from the curse.

Episode 2) Grant tells the tragic story of his family's demise by Dracula/Goes back to town to help the villagers defend against further undead assaults.

Even if he never travelled with Trevor and Co. they could have still Incorporated his character into the series, even if it was only a small role. It should also be noted that Grant isn't a pirate as the US brands him out to be. Even in the US version the ending sequence calls him an 'Acrobat'. This would mean that he is a performer of sorts, wielding knives and doing all sorts of crazy mid-air stunts to wow the crowds. Grant and his family could have most likely been Gypsies travelling through Transylvania and encountered Dracula's forces by accident. And thus we are left with an entire caravan decimated, its people slaughtered, and a lone man now cursed to serve Dracula. This also seems to make more sense as the Black sea is somewhat landlocked and would not make for good pirate prowling. Especially since the only way out is through the port of Istanbul. Not going to happen during such a turbulent time.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on December 15, 2019, 11:36:48 PM
My expectation for the season is that it will show Alucard going down a dark path now that he's the master of Dracula's Castle.  Trevor might have to put him in his place haha.  Then he would probably put himself into that centuries long slumber because he can't trust himself to be among humans or something.  Then sprinkle in all the other stuff that's going on with Carmilla, the Devil Forgemasters, and Grant.  Looking forward to seeing how it all plays out.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Thunderbrand on December 16, 2019, 10:14:32 AM
Keep in mind that the show is written by someone who's never played the games, and probably doesn't have the same emotional ties to the CV universe that hardcore fans do. That could help explain the absence of Grant, the introduction of Carmilla earlier than she was in the games, and Godbrand and all his bullshit, etc. Also, who's to say Grant won't be in season 3? There are a LOT of open ended scenarios to play out.

Speaking of Godbrand, I think he was an important character for several reasons. First and foremost, you needed to have an outspoken general who questioned the status quo. This sets up ways to not only show Dracula's authority, but it highlighted his preferential regard for Hector and Isaac and clarified their position in Drac's court. Think about it - if you're a centuries-old, powerful vampire lord, are you going to be happy taking orders from a human? Probably not. Most of the court fell in line, but Godbrand challenged the the whole methodology of the war effort. That was necessary. Furthermore, it allowed us to see an important side of Carmilla, wherein her hidden motives were revealed through Godbrand acting out his frustrations.

While basically an annoying boob, Godbrand had some key value IMHO.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Hiryu on December 16, 2019, 09:26:19 PM
Thought it was a quality show. Things seemed rushed at the end...bust down Drac's front door and here we go, but I guess they didn't know if there was gonna be a 3rd season at the time. I was always a fan at how expansive the castle was from the backgrounds in SotN and imagined it would take a day or more to traverse it on foot. I'm looking forward to next season.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Flame on December 22, 2019, 12:26:22 PM
I'm late to this conversation but I always felt the whole Dracula is Mathias thing was a bit limiting. It was neat to tie Dracula to a dramatic betrayal with Leon, and that was all fun, but there's something to be said about the character having a bit more mystique before that, when you just assumed he was the actual Vlad Dracula, and his transformation into Dracula the vampire was unknown dark sorcery. It never needed to be explained. kind of like "the force" in Star Wars didn't need to be explained as "lol midichlorians"

Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on December 23, 2019, 11:01:45 AM
I don't really mind LoI's origin story though you could argue that at best it's unneccesary and at worst makes Dracula's character arc more convoluted that it needs to be. The personal connection between Dracula and the Belmonts is interesting but ultimately doesn't matter. It isn't like there wasn't any incentive for the Belmonts to go and stop Dracula in the earlier games. You could skip LoI, read the Japanese intro for CV3 and be all caught up as far as the state of the world is concerned. "Dracula is an evil tyrant who wants to take over the world and the Belmonts want to stop him because fighting monsters is their job." There really isn't anything more that needs to be revealed about both parties.  It's also telling that none of the later games in the timeline have ever referenced Dracula's original identity of Mathias Cronqvist because there simply isn't any reason to from a story perspective. Everything you need to know about his character you could learn from either CV3's opening crawl or alternatively from his retconned backstory as told in SotN. I think SotN actually adds more to Dracula's character than LoI despite technically not being an origin story. Dracula got changed from a generic bad guy who wants power for power's sake into a more humanised figure who turns evil because he was treated unfairly. I always thought it was kind of unimaginative LoI simply repeats the same plot point. On top of that it makes things unnecessarily complicated because it resulted in there being two points in the timeline where Dracula undergoes a transformation into being a villian. It's not like his first transformation has any effect on his second one. You could scrap the first one and it wouldn't affect the second. I think it's also sort of jarring that after Dracula's first villainous turn, he goes on to marry Lisa who has some strong Virgin Mary/Christian martyr vibes going on. It would have been neater from a character writing perspective if Dracula's transformation into a vampire wasn't tied to his transformation into being a villian. That way there wouldn't be any need to backtrack on Dracula's character development in order for his marriage to Lisa to work.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: X on December 25, 2019, 12:17:07 PM
I personally feel that LoI was IGAs knee-jerk reaction to Legends. Before legends came out there was no word or thought of an origin story for CV. CVIII was essentially the origin story of the Belmont's first clash against Dracula. LoI was unnecessary in that regard amongst other reasons as well.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on January 12, 2020, 12:55:28 PM
Not that this is news, but they confirmed season 3 is coming out in 2020.  No hints as to what date, but there’s always a chance it could come out around Halloween.  Yay, the season is an extra two episodes long, but we might have to wait a whole extra year to get it?  Oh well.  Still not nearly as long as we had to wait for the first season after it was announce lol.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/winteriscoming.net/2020/01/08/looks-like-castlevania-season-3-coming-year/amp/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/winteriscoming.net/2020/01/08/looks-like-castlevania-season-3-coming-year/amp/)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Chernabogue on January 12, 2020, 01:36:11 PM
Netflix (at least the French account) recently teased season 3 coming soon (along other shows). IMO, we should get the new season in the next couple of months.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on January 12, 2020, 04:40:50 PM
It would be nice to see more of the show, despite the little problems I might have with it. Though I must admit, should the show be without Dracula, it would feel quite hollow. He's the central character and I really, really do not want to see either Isaac or Carmilla to be the new main villain.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on January 12, 2020, 04:58:54 PM
I’m assuming they are going to loosely adapt the plot of Curse of Darkness in season 3. They already set up Hector & Isaac so it makes sense. Hopefully we will see Death too
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on January 12, 2020, 09:09:19 PM
I’m assuming they are going to loosely adapt the plot of Curse of Darkness in season 3. They already set up Hector & Isaac so it makes sense. Hopefully we will see Death too

At this point if we don't see Death its really going to dampen season 3 for me, I can somewhat forgive Grant not being present in the past 2 seasons since he isn't a HUGE part of the CV lore in general but Death is a absolute core element in the mythos of CV and has pretty much been in every single game even the earliest timeline wise LOI which saw the birth of Dracula, having him not be a part of this show just makes you feel like something is "missing" as a CV fan and I hope they finally bring in Death.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on January 13, 2020, 11:17:30 AM
If they decide to use Death, then I don’t think they will give him a speaking role. He will probably just be another obstacle the gang must overcome*, which I’m not too sure how I would feel about that because it is technically still accurate to the character itself

Death didn’t have any dialogue at all in the Aria/Dawn of Sorrow games, which was odd considering how the overall narrative of the series lore expanded upon him by showing his utter loyalty to Dracula & his manipulation of events/characters. So if the show omits his “personality,” it’s going to be kinda weird, but kinda not at the same time

*unless they include him as Zead, which is possible although that may be too “on the nose”
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on January 13, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
Including Death would be very nice, but I have little hopes of them actually doing so - I could more see it that the Netflix-Isaac somehow models himself after the Grim Reaper, becoming "Death" or somesuch, to make him more intimidating and viable as a main antagonist, because as much as I hope for it, I am pretty certain they will not bring Dracula back as the main villain.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Gaawa-chan on January 13, 2020, 09:00:47 PM
Death

Actually, I suspect that in the Netflix adaptation, Isaac IS Death... just not quite fully so yet.  He essentially fills the role of the right-hand man with ties to undeath, his personality in the show is MUCH closer to Death than to Isaac, and he even looks a bit more like Zead than Isaac.

Show Isaac is almost certainly a fusion of Isaac conceptually (human on Dracula's side with a beef against Hector) and Death in execution (behavior, probably abilities in the future, his relationship with Dracula, his actions, if the eyes indicate who forged what creatures then Isaac forged Slogra and Gaibon, etc).  I don't expect that to change; Isaac may become some sort of lich creature or something in the future to reflect this... I would not be surprised AT ALL if this happens.  It would also explain the completely different personalities between game and show Isaac; the writer probably wanted to incorporate Death, but thought that having the grim reaper working for Dracula was silly, so he looked for another character in canon that he could paste Death onto and landed on Isaac.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on January 16, 2020, 03:35:44 PM
interesting thought.  reminds me of zobek, who seems to be a death-shaft mashup (and is just as unsatisfying unfortunately)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Gaawa-chan on January 17, 2020, 08:08:10 PM
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/first-castlevania-season-3-image-revealed-shows-of/1100-6472868/ (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/first-castlevania-season-3-image-revealed-shows-of/1100-6472868/)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Scarlet starlet on January 18, 2020, 02:08:24 AM
lol
Idk how to feel about this. I just hope they don't ruin any more characters from the series so as long as they strafe away from the games by making entirely new characters things should be ok
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: X on January 18, 2020, 11:43:24 AM
CoD was already a bit of a cock-up; having been shoehorned into the series and being an unnecessary addition to CV3. If the director chooses to do something a bit different with season 3 then I say let's let him. Who knows, it might work out better.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on January 19, 2020, 05:05:58 PM
I wouldn't mind the addition of new, original characters. I liked Isaacs interpretation (even though I liked the original better) and I liked Godbrand as well. I wish the other members of Dracula's court would've been given slightly bigger roles, so maybe we'll get something like that with the addition of the new characters.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on January 19, 2020, 09:42:55 PM
I’ll be a little disappointed if one of these ladies isn’t Laura or she otherwise doesn’t appear.  i’d have to guess it would be the left most one if any just cause she looks the most “innocent”.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Foffy on January 21, 2020, 09:10:02 PM
I wouldn't mind the addition of new, original characters. I liked Isaacs interpretation (even though I liked the original better) and I liked Godbrand as well. I wish the other members of Dracula's court would've been given slightly bigger roles, so maybe we'll get something like that with the addition of the new characters.

I'm hoping if they're going to try to do their own thing with this season that they develop the cast of new characters. One of the weaker things about season 2 was that the cast of vampires just seemed to be ethnically diverse, and at least two of those characters never talked. I think you had to Google to even figure out what their names are.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on January 21, 2020, 10:46:30 PM
hmm, i wouldn’t mind some comic book spinoff to help develop that diverse vampire cast a little.  or maybe an expanded novelization?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on January 22, 2020, 03:31:28 PM
I wouldn’t count on it. We’ll probably only get brief character bios on the website & that’s about it
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on January 22, 2020, 04:11:37 PM
I wouldn’t count on it. We’ll probably only get brief character bios on the website & that’s about it

While I can see that happening, I hope it doesn't. I liked Godbrand and would've liked more characterization for the other Generals, as well.

Also, on a random side note, the names they chose for the Generals were beyond stupid. "Zufall"... Like, really? You're gonna name the German vampire "Coincidence"? Castlevania gave us proper German names like Walter Bernhard and Brauner, and then we get freaking Zufall.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: aensland on January 22, 2020, 08:05:59 PM
having been shoehorned into the series and being an unnecessary addition to CV
wow, just like the animation itself!
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on February 04, 2020, 01:27:30 PM
La tercera temporada regresa el 5 de Marzo!!!!!!

https://www.superherohype.com/tv/476711-netflixs-new-castlevania-poster-reveals-season-3-premiere-date (https://www.superherohype.com/tv/476711-netflixs-new-castlevania-poster-reveals-season-3-premiere-date)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Aiddon on February 04, 2020, 02:06:50 PM
Ah, whip-cracking goodness continues:

https://twitter.com/NXOnNetflix/status/1224754478680657920
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on February 04, 2020, 07:07:49 PM
Ok, hear me out on this one... I'm thinking the bearded guy in the back might be Mathias, in flashbacks.  Looks just like Graham McTavish, the dude who voices Dracula, and if you take of the beard and change the hair he seems to have the same facial structure as Dracula.  Also looks like he's holding the crimson stone, with something like chaos behind him.  And his clothing is vaguely remiscent of Mathias's from Lament.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on February 04, 2020, 10:28:00 PM
yeah the clothes and “crimon stone” thing made me think Mathias, though not the face.

i’m curious if the new lady could be Rosaly. Poor Hector’s gonna need a good touch after dealing with Carmilla.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on February 05, 2020, 04:11:46 AM
Hi guys long time no see.

I was looking at the guy at the top of the poster and thought hey, he looks like Mathias crossed with the Master Librarian. and is holding the Crimson Stone.  But then when I looked closer, I could see his jacket is red, his shirt white, and he has a polka dot neck tie.  Which made me go to thinking this might be a redesigned St Germain.

As for the red haired girl with Hector, seeing as she’s shown in Carmilla’s line up, my thoughts are that she’s Laura.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on February 05, 2020, 07:55:59 AM
Ok, hear me out on this one... I'm thinking the bearded guy in the back might be Mathias, in flashbacks.  Looks just like Graham McTavish, the dude who voices Dracula, and if you take of the beard and change the hair he seems to have the same facial structure as Dracula.  Also looks like he's holding the crimson stone, with something like chaos behind him.  And his clothing is vaguely remiscent of Mathias's from Lament.

I think you're right on the money.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on February 05, 2020, 01:33:49 PM
Hi guys long time no see.

I was looking at the guy at the top of the poster and thought hey, he looks like Mathias crossed with the Master Librarian. and is holding the Crimson Stone.  But then when I looked closer, I could see his jacket is red, his shirt white, and he has a polka dot neck tie.  Which made me go to thinking this might be a redesigned St Germain.

As for the red haired girl with Hector, seeing as she’s shown in Carmilla’s line up, my thoughts are that she’s Laura.

I think the long dark haired one is Laura, this one seems like a version of Rosaly.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on February 05, 2020, 08:52:29 PM
Hi guys long time no see.

I was looking at the guy at the top of the poster and thought hey, he looks like Mathias crossed with the Master Librarian. and is holding the Crimson Stone.  But then when I looked closer, I could see his jacket is red, his shirt white, and he has a polka dot neck tie.  Which made me go to thinking this might be a redesigned St Germain.

As for the red haired girl with Hector, seeing as she’s shown in Carmilla’s line up, my thoughts are that she’s Laura.
Yeah I thought she was Laura at first, and then Rosaly.  Maybe a hybrid of the two?  That guy with the “crimson stone” looking thing does give me some St Germain vibes.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on February 06, 2020, 04:16:44 PM
In the novel, Carmilla meets Laura after a carriage accident in front of Laura's Castle. There were also two other women accompanying her in the carriage, Carmilla's mother and a dark skinned woman.

(https://www.nintendoenthusiast.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Castlevania-1-800x400.jpg)

As we can see, the woman to the right of Carmilla has wrinkles under her eyes, which MIGHT mean she was older when she became a vampire (assuming she's a vampire, but she has pointy ears so most likely she is). The other woman is dark skinned. So i think those two characters might be based in Carmilla's crew from the novel.

I'd honestly prefer if the redhead girl was Laura. Give her a Rosaly-esque role if they want but i consider Rosaly/Julia kinda redundant with Lisa/Sypha present
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on February 07, 2020, 06:14:39 AM
Don't forget Laura has long flowing dark hair in one of her forms.  I think the dark haired girl is Laura. (https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/castlevania/images/0/03/Camilla-rob-1-.gif/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/30?cb=20170722230500)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on February 10, 2020, 04:42:37 PM
thanks for the tidbits from the Carmilla novel, good to know and that makes for a good theory.

what’s sad is that unless the mystery man is Grant somehow (maybe he stole the jewel with piracy or thievery), Grant isn’t having a large enough role in this season to be put on the poster, if any at all.  it’s fine to omit him from the first two seasons to avoid cluttering the story, but i’d think the time would be right by third season.  i still maintain the theory that grant is the bandit/slaver with bandages on his arm that isaac turned into a creature, but we’ll see.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on February 11, 2020, 01:21:38 AM
I think the director of the show has gone on record saying that he'll not add Grant to the show at all, because he doesn't like his design and name.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on February 11, 2020, 07:54:09 AM
well he had no problem completely changing up Isaac who is no where near what he was like in Curse of Darkness, so i don’t see why he couldn’t have done the same with Grant....
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on February 11, 2020, 09:22:26 AM
i also remember a quote saying something to the effect that Grant was in the universe the whole time, just either offscreen or not recognized as such.  i could see the guy in the poster being a redesign of grant if they decided to take emphasize that the family of that the danasty name came from was a political rival of vlad’s family instead of his design in castlevania.  my fan fictiony mind wonders if the scene of dracula wiping out a bunch of merchants due to one of them insulting him was a call back to dracula murdering grant’s family.  could grant be a surviver of these guys, or a descendant of them?  if so, the mystery guy in the poster might fit this scenario.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on February 11, 2020, 04:31:15 PM
well he had no problem completely changing up Isaac who is no where near what he was like in Curse of Darkness, so i don’t see why he couldn’t have done the same with Grant....
Isaac in the netflix show actualy appeared very similar to Isaac during the events of Cv3, as portrayed in the Curse of Darkness Manga.  Other than the race change, but being that his race was never a central aspect of his character I don't think that was significant.  We'll see where Isaac is at after Dracula's death, thats when he became the Isaac we knew is CoD, not before.  I have a lot of problems with the netflix show, Isaac is one of the things I love.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Sindra on February 12, 2020, 08:00:25 AM
Isaac in the netflix show actualy appeared very similar to Isaac during the events of Cv3, as portrayed in the Curse of Darkness Manga.  Other than the race change, but being that his race was never a central aspect of his character I don't think that was significant.  We'll see where Isaac is at after Dracula's death, thats when he became the Isaac we knew is CoD, not before.  I have a lot of problems with the netflix show, Isaac is one of the things I love.

This would require Isaac to change from a calmer, more collected individual to a manic, more impulsive one. I could see this happening, and they could even divert his focus of revenge from Hector to Alucard/Trevor or even Carmilla, but they'd need to really show the psychological break Isaac has as a result of the defeat of Dracula and his not being there to prevent it and how it and his past trauma causes such a turn in personality.

I honestly don't have a lot of faith in Ellis's writing that he'd be that nuanced.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on February 12, 2020, 02:40:33 PM
I wonder if Dracula’s Curse is going to make an appearance in this season, effecting far more people than just Isaac.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: X on February 12, 2020, 07:20:49 PM
Quote
This would require Isaac to change from a calmer, more collected individual to a manic, more impulsive one. I could see this happening, and they could even divert his focus of revenge from Hector to Alucard/Trevor or even Carmilla, but they'd need to really show the psychological break Isaac has as a result of the defeat of Dracula and his not being there to prevent it and how it and his past trauma causes such a turn in personality.

From what I remember of CoD Issac was effected by the curse of Dracula, hence his psychotic nature. It was easy for Issac to fall prey to the curse due to his strong loyalty to his former master. The curse itself would've impaired Issac's judgement severely, leaving him as the "broken man" we know of, with nothing but his own fuelled-up ego and thoughts of revenge.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on February 13, 2020, 01:33:06 PM
It’s been a while since I read the Curse of Darkness manga so i apologize if i got some facts about Isaac’s personality as his tenure as a Devil Forgemaster wrong. I do know that there was supposed to be a volume 3, but that was abruptly canceled.

There have been action figures released of Trevor, Sypha, & Alucard released. I didn’t get a chance to buy them but they look pretty basic.

I wouldn’t mind if Dracula isn’t included in season 3, but it would be a shame if they didn’t include Death. He is an important part of the mythos, even if they include him as Zead (his human avatar) would suffice and would actually make more sense, all things considered
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on February 14, 2020, 09:48:52 AM
The trailer is up!  Just.... wow..... 
This definitely seems to be going in its own direction, with a whole new story that looks like it might build towards Curse of Darkness.  I’m intrigued. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2pccjtCbHKtPd3UnGpmeQB8KFyPi9Mw0gxORYeMkCDvI4UXhbRzflz-rk&v=cYNGDUIBUhE&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: GuyStarwind on February 14, 2020, 10:10:32 AM
I'll watch it because it's Castlevania, but I wasn't a very big fan so season 2.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on February 14, 2020, 03:02:30 PM
Dracula may be dead, but our heroes definitely still have their work cut out for them!

Since they decided to do their own thing story wise, they owe us a lot of fan service.  I see a good number of recognizable monsters, which is awesome, though sometimes it’s hard to tell if its their own design or based on a specific monster from the game.  Hope we get an art book or something some day that labels them all so we know for sure.  Also, hoping for more recognizable tunes.

Now I’m curious if Carmilla had a Devil Forgemaster working for her in Circle of the Moon haha.  Necromancer probably filled that role I suppose.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Gaawa-chan on February 14, 2020, 06:02:19 PM
Is the person Alucard interacting with male or female?  I can't tell.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: piscesdreams on February 14, 2020, 06:12:30 PM
I'll watch it because it's Castlevania, but I wasn't a very big fan so season 2.

I gotta agree with you.  It really felt like Dracula was neutered in season 2 and was incredibly morose for the sake of being pitiful.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Aiddon on February 14, 2020, 10:49:16 PM
That's the good stuff.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on February 15, 2020, 06:35:44 AM
The animation looked kind of choppy in certain parts in season 2, specifically the final battle scenes against Dracula. I dunno but it looked like there were frames missing & they cut corners here n there. I hope this gets improved in s3 (also the dialogue. I don’t need to hear Alucard make any more dick jokes)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Abnormal Freak on February 15, 2020, 07:33:16 AM
Cool, Lords of Shadow season 3 is coming soon.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on February 15, 2020, 08:35:56 AM
The new trailer looks good, but I'm afraid that, with no Dracula or the threat of him returning, the series will fall very short of what it should be. Dracula is the main character of Castlevania and the story is focused on him. Removing him from that equation is to cut out the soul of the franchise. Characters like Carmilla or Isaac are simply not enough to hold it on their own.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on February 15, 2020, 01:19:13 PM
I honestly expect they might throw in a surprise and have Dracula resurrect at the end of the season, or they will be moving towards setting into motion a series take on Curse of Darkness, like I said previously.  If this shows the way that Isaac descends into madness the way he seems to flip from the CoD manga to how he is in the game, it should be interesting.  That line he utters “One day, Hell will be emptied, and its doors will rattle in the wind,” is brilliant.   I honestly doubt the show will remain Dracula-less for all that long.  It’s also nice seeing how the monster menagerie looks a lot bigger and more varied this season, much more like what we expect in Castlevania.  It’s bugging me though where I know that symbol that Trevor is stood on from. 
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on February 15, 2020, 02:35:45 PM
Dracula is absent from the world 100 years at a time.  I don’t mind seeing what the world’s like during his absence.  But he always has his followers. 

With all this evil not staying dead, wonder if we’ll ever see Godbrand again.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on February 16, 2020, 02:47:04 PM
So, that symbol that Trevor’s stood on at points in the trailer, which has been nagging me for a couple of days.  It’s the Leviathan Cross, which is the alchemical symbol for black sulfur, i.e brimstone and Hell.  It was also adopted by Le Vey Satanism, from which it gets referred to as a Satanic cross.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on February 16, 2020, 03:12:15 PM
>people worried bc dracula is super totes gonesies and oh noes what will the series be w/o him
>don't even need to look at all the other reasons like obvious alchemy/cult/resurrection setup stuff as to why this is a dumb thing to be concerned about
>mctavish is still on the cast billing for the third season

you guys what now
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on February 16, 2020, 03:40:21 PM
What D9 said.  It’s Castlevania.  Even when Dracula is killed, he always finds a way back.  Aid Shankar and the Deats brothers are too big fans to completely ignore this central pillar of the games’ plots.  As far as I’m concerned, all of the scheming and mechanisations of other villainous characters is giving them room to breathe and grow, rather than just having them appear out of nowhere with little given motivation or ambition beyond “Hey, let’s resurrect Dracula!”.  It makes for very two dimensional and uninteresting characters.  Besides, from the poster itself, there’s a guy that resembles a re-designed St Germaine who didn’t show up in the trailer from what we can see, which, together with Hector and Isaac being present, suggests we are heading towards a take on Curse of Darkness, and thus Dracula getting resurrected a few years after Trevor and co take him down.  Why include the devil forgemasters to begin with if a CoD related adaptation wasn’t on the cards?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on February 18, 2020, 07:39:20 PM
new artwork
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/castlevania-warren-ellis-shares-artwork-season-3/amp/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/castlevania-warren-ellis-shares-artwork-season-3/amp/)

we also get the brief synopsis
(click to show/hide)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/comicbook.com/anime/amp/2020/02/19/castlevania-anime-season-3-synopsis/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/comicbook.com/anime/amp/2020/02/19/castlevania-anime-season-3-synopsis/)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on February 19, 2020, 09:58:08 AM
Looks like Nintendo DS-era cover art
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Sindra on February 20, 2020, 10:22:58 AM
New tweet from Ellis gives us our cast for second 3.

https://twitter.com/warrenellis/status/1230538925460119554

Bill Nighy will voice St. Germaine
Jason Isaacs will voice a character called The Judge (possible Zead/Death hint?)

No character named Laura.
Suddenly a bunch more characters we likely won't give a shit about.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Belmontoya on February 20, 2020, 11:40:26 AM
I kinda wish they would go back to the Trevor Stark design. Something about the all black Trevor Neo design is weird.

Or Trevor Belmont I guess. That would work too.

I should add that's pretty cool they're putting St. Germain in though!

I got excited because for I second I thought you meant the Science Guy and just made a typo.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on February 20, 2020, 11:45:56 AM
Woohoo!  Glad my guess about St Germaine showing up was right, which suggests we should be having some COD elements.  I agree though that Isaacs’ character seems to be very Zead-y.  I’m surprised they didn’t have Laura show up.  Even if McTavish returns they wouldn’t say now.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on February 20, 2020, 02:45:45 PM
Aww, no Grant or Laura.  I’m finding it hard to believe Grant might still appear in a fourth season, since I would think the plot would have moved on to the next Belmont by then, but who knows.  With St. Germaine in play, I wonder if we’ll ever see any “flash forwards” to later Belmonts.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on February 20, 2020, 03:07:41 PM
Interesting that they’re including San German; i just hope they don’t drastically change his character since his persona was one of my favorite aspects of Curse of Darkness

I think Reinhart77 brings up a good point. Lament of Innocence has already been semi-confirmed to be “canon” in this universe with the inclusion of Leon’s portrait in an episode, which an argument can be made that Dracula’s original identity in this universe is still Matthias. However they have already took several liberties so they may just be picking & choosing what to include/what to ignore
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on February 20, 2020, 06:52:35 PM
Quote
St Germaine
(x3)
Quote
San German

guys his name is snot gerbil get it right gosh
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Chernabogue on February 20, 2020, 09:47:00 PM
Hopefully it draws elements from CoD and CotM, or even LoI, but it looks like they're going with something more original.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: X on February 21, 2020, 09:20:21 AM
At this point it would be best if they took an original route. Especially with all the characters that are showing up.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Shinobi on February 21, 2020, 03:57:21 PM
I have the feeling the old man with a hat at the poster was supposed to be the new Dracula, Mathias maybe? Yeah I know Mathias and Vlad are the same person in IGA's canon but then again the Netflix series took some liberties from the original source and maybe they decided to make Mathias and Vlad as two different person.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on February 21, 2020, 07:24:51 PM
I have the feeling the old man with a hat at the poster was supposed to be the new Dracula, Mathias maybe? Yeah I know Mathias and Vlad are the same person in IGA's canon but then again the Netflix series took some liberties from the original source and maybe they decided to make Mathias and Vlad as two different person.

he is Saint Germaine so...
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Shinobi on February 21, 2020, 11:57:27 PM
Or St. Germaine will become the new Dracula rather than as a time keeper since God knows when in IGA's canon.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on February 23, 2020, 06:17:20 AM
That seems a bit of a long stretch of a conclusion to jump to, Shinobi.

Even with a new direction, I’m sure Dracula will return.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on February 24, 2020, 05:51:45 PM
Or St. Germaine will become the new Dracula rather than as a time keeper since God knows when in IGA's canon.
Doubt it because the events of the previous seasons pay homage to SotN, and in SotN, Dracula is STILL Alucard's father. Unless they do something like Saint Germain becoming the vessel to Dracula's spirit (but the spirit being Mathias Dracula, who IS Alucard's father), which would be similar to the main reason Zead wanted Hector to return in CoD.

I think Dracula's not going to have a part in this season. I think they aren't going the CoD route and might take some ideas, but will forge a new event revolving around the power vacuum where everybody that is evil will come out of the woodwork in hopes to fill it (Carmilla and her followers, Isaac and his army, the Judge and such). I think they might make this Saint Germain another evil figure (a lord of Alchemy, and probably the big bad). I noticed the sigil in the room Trevor and Sypha are encountering the monsters is an alchemic symbol (looks like the combination of Black Sulfur and another).
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on February 24, 2020, 06:11:50 PM
DragonSlayer, I noticed the same about the alchemical symbol.  It appears to be exactly the Black Sulfur symbol but with an extra bar running across it.

Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on February 24, 2020, 06:59:32 PM
It almost looks like the symbol of Saturn combined with Black Sulfur.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on February 24, 2020, 10:31:03 PM
time for me to actually contribute to this thread with something that isn't a shitpost lol

It almost looks like the symbol of Saturn combined with Black Sulfur.

that's exactly what it is

(for  those unfamiliar):
(https://i.imgur.com/80rXFkD.png)

and this can have several potential connotations/speculations

saturn, within classical astrology and western alchemy, was associated with and was the ruling planetary body for the elemental mundane of lead; lead is the lowest rung on the ladder of the base metals, and carried the properties of being the "default"

by this, it was believed that all metals greater than lead would, eventually, decay back into lead -- which introduces the prospect of time to lead's value (this also relates to the planetary body as saturn = cronos/kronos = chronos = time)

because of this, lead had the disctinct value to alchemists as being the metal of transformation, rejuvenation, and redemption

this doubles over as saturn, as a cosmic body, has long-developed associations with the placement of limits and restrictions on power and/or the act or ability to control a given thing, due to saturn (within the context of alchemy and its symbolism as obviously this isn't the case in the actual solar system) being the farthest planet from the sun in the classical writings

so we have a cosmic body (associated with the limits of power)being the ruling planet over the alchemic metal lead (associated with transformation and redemption, and contextually-depending the overcoming of boundaries by that transformation), and the two have common ties relating to the idea of time in one form or another

now, depending on whether or not they went balls-to-the-wall with the alchemy research, paracelsus and other practitioners of the qabalah of hermeticism held beliefs that planetary bodies had ties to vital organs (saturn was the spleen most commonly, but the organ doesn't matter for this as much as the relationship to specific organs -- but if we wanna get into it saturn also has occasional relationships with the bones, at least in ptolemy's writings as far as i know)

now moving to astrology, saturn (in western astrology anyway) dominates capricorn and aquarius, which have their own relationships to alchemic processes -- in specific the magnum opus:

-capricorn represents the process of fermentation (sometimes referred to as putrefaction depending on the source)
-aquarius represents multiplication

i think you can already see where this half of the sigil can possibly go

now we have sulfur

sulfur is representative of the soul -- specifically, it was interchangeable to the point of being synonymous with the human soul, but this can be interpreted as human-specific or generalized at one's leisure, the old writings support both

there's a bunch of stuff about the leviathan cross symbol for sulfur being representative of satanism and the devil, but that has zero historical commonality outside of a specific assclown and fuck lavey for starting that shit -- BUT, depending on whether the writers were aware of this or not can significantly alter how this can be interpreted

with all the involvement of catholicism and actual hell in the netflix series, let's just for argument's sake assume the writers intended this connotation regardless of whether or not they know the history

sulfur in western alchemy has strong masculine traits -- it's hot, and dry, and powerful

but, sulfur was very frequently seen as a base element for a very long time, mostly due to jabir the arab writing of this (sulfur as a base element was already common in the arabic world at this time) in the 700s or so and european scholar-types just kinda rolled with it from that point

and sulfur as a base element was very important when paired with mercury, which carried female archetypal traits -- opposing those of sulfur, so cold/cool and wet

the two together worked by sulfur being a major driver of change and transformation being an active "male" element but requiring a catalyst to actually shape anything and thus was made whole by the pairing of mercury as a passive "female" element -- the joining of two things combining the male and female into a singular union being a major theme in alchemy and specifically the great work and all that

this pairing also was frequented by the company of salt, which was seen as a purely physical thing but of the earth and impure and needing to be purified through transmutation in order to become perfect -- was usually seen as the body when in reference to humans

so you have all three of these:

-sulfur representing the soul (specifically, the personal essence of a living thing)
-mercury representing the spirit (different from the soul, and more as a sort of medium or "connection" of the soul to something else altogether)
-salt representing the body (seen as impure and imperfect, and in need of transformation in order to become enlightened and the perfect thing)

but note that mercury and salt are entirely absent from this symbol on the floor in ANY representation or respect, which i think is important

so the way i interpret it this can likely be one of two things:

-a sigil designed to embody the transformation/redemption/rejuvenation/perfection of something impure and divided within itself, in this particular conjecture the soul of dracula being transformed and rejuvenated into something more singular and "perfect" than before (possibly "correcting" the division within him previously of wanting to murder-hobo the human race and his humanity wanting to grieve and mourn his wife -- y'know, just the usual internal conflict of the guy in SotN which the series seems to draw the most heavily from where dracula is concerned), so in this "theory" it could be taken that the symbol on the floor is part of a process or ritual or ceremony which establishes the resurrection cycle and/or curse of dracula

-a sigil designed to basically act like a giant minecraft redstone to constantly feed demonic souls straight from hell into humans or their bodies amassed by whoever the group/cult is (since it seems night-creatures can, in addition to being summoned, be created from humans and human corpses), as the absence of salt and mercury could indicate a lack of need for a physical impurity/body and/or a tethered connection as in this conjecture they're simply forcefully stuffing demonic souls straight out of hell into human bodies like a massive assembly line and thus don't have to be concerned about connections that strong as the purpose herein is about quantity rather than quality

i feel like either could be compelling enough for the existing narrative as it currently stands, though given the specific mentions of things like "emptying hell" of its denizens in the trailer and the fact that the room the sigil's in has a shitload of demons and a portal/gateway of some kind, i have waaaaaay more inclination toward something resembling the latter

however, what's clear to me either way is whatever the final usage of alchemy is in this season, one thing is abundantly clear to me from all my years researching the topic and hermetic writings of all kinds:

these motherfuckers lookin' to make a Stone

now what kind of stone and at what specific point in the process they stop at is up in the air and i'll probably devote more time into research connections and theorizing based on what we know (or not, with only a few days before it drops there's probably no point in that)

but everything about that sigil on the floor has strong connections to extremely crucial and critical elements of the processes involved in the magnum opus

Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on February 24, 2020, 10:44:08 PM
Aaaaahhhh, I hadn’t spotted the tail bit for Saturn in there as well.  Thanks D9 for that info dump, it’s useful. :)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on February 25, 2020, 02:34:13 AM
Hi @Tattered! It's been a while!

Thanks @D9. Ohhh... a stone! Philosopher's stone? Or the failures from making the Philosopher's -- ebony or crimson stone?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: X on February 25, 2020, 10:04:37 AM
Quote
Philosopher's stone? Or the failures from making the Philosopher's -- ebony or crimson stone?

According to LoI both the crimson and ebony stones were created by accident. That knowledge might be lost to history with Rinaldo's passing. The ultimate goal of alchemy is the Philosopher's stone. Dracula, if I'm not mistaken, apparently has both of the other stones (not like he needs them with the kind of power he's capable of unleashing on his own). But since this is a stand-alone series who knows what they want to create with alchemy.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on February 26, 2020, 03:24:53 AM
According to LoI both the crimson and ebony stones were created by accident. That knowledge might be lost to history with Rinaldo's passing. The ultimate goal of alchemy is the Philosopher's stone. Dracula, if I'm not mistaken, apparently has both of the other stones (not like he needs them with the kind of power he's capable of unleashing on his own). But since this is a stand-alone series who knows what they want to create with alchemy.

I've always believed the crimson and ebony weren't failures so much as a complete and different form of philosophers stone and an incomplete one, respectively

if you made a stone that gave eternal life and fabulous powers but made you a vampire in an era where vampires were seen as evil, you might consider it a failure rather than simply a different result than you expected

and blackening was a step of the opus prior to completion
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: X on February 26, 2020, 09:42:01 AM
I can agree with you on that one. Ridaldo only said they were created by accident so technically they aren't failures either, but unexpected results. The ebony stone sounds like it was more closer to the Philosopher's stone as one brings about eternal youth while the other brings about eternal night. Both have the 'eternal' effect but are applied to different things.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on February 28, 2020, 04:17:25 AM
Was it the crimson stone itself that made him a vampire?  Or the fact that he used it to steal Walter's soul that did?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on February 28, 2020, 07:29:31 AM
Was it the crimson stone itself that made him a vampire?  Or the fact that he used it to steal Walter's soul that did?

The dialogue between Leon and Rinaldo (in the Japanese version at least) makes it seem like the act of stealing a vampire's soul is what makes you a vampire. This does raise the question of why Mathias just didn't steal Joachim's soul, especially since a cutscene implies he was present (but invisible) during the fight between Joachim and Leon. Unless he had already obtained a vampire's soul before he stole Walter's.   
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Holy Diver on February 28, 2020, 02:38:38 PM
The dialogue between Leon and Rinaldo (in the Japanese version at least) makes it seem like the act of stealing a vampire's soul is what makes you a vampire. This does raise the question of why Mathias just didn't steal Joachim's soul, especially since a cutscene implies he was present (but invisible) during the fight between Joachim and Leon. Unless he had already obtained a vampire's soul before he stole Walter's.   
Uhhhh, wasn't there a thread on the forums where someone said something along the lines of he wanted the soul of a more powerful vampire or something. I know there was a discussion regarding Mathias and his means of becoming a dark lord, but can't remember any details.

Edit: Ok found the thread but apparently in Japanese version Mathias just said he wanted a vampire's soul vs. the US version where he said he wanted a powerful vampire's soul.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on February 29, 2020, 06:42:25 AM
Yeah, so if he just wanted a vampire's soul, you would think he could just steal it from any ordinary vampire. Unless the main point of his plan in LoI wasn't stealing Walter's soul, but rather to make Leon renounce God like he did and convince him to become a vampire as well.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on February 29, 2020, 04:04:29 PM
Well I think it's a pretty obvious answer... Walter is much more powerful than Joachim, so I imagine his soul makes Mathias a lot more powerful than Joachim's would have.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on March 01, 2020, 01:42:57 AM
That's true but why does he desire power at this point in the timeline? His villain speech at the end of LoI makes it sound he's only interested in obtaining eternal life. Rinaldo's speech in the Japanese version does say the Ebony and Crimson stones are the greatest treasures "for those who wish to become lord of the night", so it's possible Mathias already had aspirations of "ruling the night", but for what purpose? I would have been nice if they had addressed that more clearly in the game.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 01, 2020, 09:02:19 AM
I’ve always gotten the impression that Mathias became a vampire to spite God for taking Elizabeta from him, while it was Lisa’s death that turned him against humanity.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 01, 2020, 10:18:13 AM
That's true but why does he desire power at this point in the timeline? His villain speech at the end of LoI makes it sound he's only interested in obtaining eternal life. Rinaldo's speech in the Japanese version does say the Ebony and Crimson stones are the greatest treasures "for those who wish to become lord of the night", so it's possible Mathias already had aspirations of "ruling the night", but for what purpose? I would have been nice if they had addressed that more clearly in the game.

Most likely to become the direct counterpart to god, to spite him. Not only eternal life, but to become Satan, as an ultimate "screw you" basically, although he obviously never intended to make use of this power against humanity until Lisa's death.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: theplottwist on March 01, 2020, 10:38:03 AM
That's true but why does he desire power at this point in the timeline? His villain speech at the end of LoI makes it sound he's only interested in obtaining eternal life. Rinaldo's speech in the Japanese version does say the Ebony and Crimson stones are the greatest treasures "for those who wish to become lord of the night", so it's possible Mathias already had aspirations of "ruling the night", but for what purpose?

I'm pretty sure Rinaldo's talking more of Walter than of Mathias, hinting at the fact Walter is after the other stone, which is confirmed later. Mathias seemed pretty satisfied he had just enough to become immortal with some cool new powers.

"Then why want Walter's soul and not just some vampire's?"

My interpretation is: Mathias is a strategist. How strategically advantageous is it to capture a lowly vampire that might be a slave to stronger one? Worse - imagine ignoring the chance to destroy an invincible vampire that wants the stone you have. Worse yet - imagine making a deal with that vampire and backpedalling to capture his underling. No matter the scenario, it's still a bad move to capture any other vampire except the invincible one with exactly the intention to get your stone.

Ignoring Walter because "any vampire works" is asking for trouble. Mathias going STRAIGHT for the vampire with invincibility powers and interest on his stone, coupled with Rinaldo's spiel, implies to me that it was no coincidence. He was trying to weed-out the apex predator. There is no "living forever" if some impervious vampire with an enormous army goes after you.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 01, 2020, 03:16:36 PM
I'm pretty sure Rinaldo's talking more of Walter than of Mathias, hinting at the fact Walter is after the other stone, which is confirmed later. Mathias seemed pretty satisfied he had just enough to become immortal with some cool new powers.

"Then why want Walter's soul and not just some vampire's?"

My interpretation is: Mathias is a strategist. How strategically advantageous is it to capture a lowly vampire that might be a slave to stronger one? Worse - imagine ignoring the chance to destroy an invincible vampire that wants the stone you have. Worse yet - imagine making a deal with that vampire and backpedalling to capture his underling. No matter the scenario, it's still a bad move to capture any other vampire except the invincible one with exactly the intention to get your stone.

Ignoring Walter because "any vampire works" is asking for trouble. Mathias going STRAIGHT for the vampire with invincibility powers and interest on his stone, coupled with Rinaldo's spiel, implies to me that it was no coincidence. He was trying to weed-out the apex predator. There is no "living forever" if some impervious vampire with an enormous army goes after you.

This precicely. The only way Mathias could ensure his middle finger to god could work is if no one else is stronger than him to bereave him of his newly-acquired immortality.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 05, 2020, 03:52:23 PM
Well that was definitely quite the season.  It’s definitely a new story, although Isaac’s story seems to be heading towards his CoD incarnation’s madness.  His characterisation was so damn good.  I loved Lenore - the red haired vampiress.  She was really interesting and fit the story and setting well.  Bill Nighy though was amazing.  He suited St Germain really well, who while a very different St Germain to the one in CoD, you could see touches of him.  Jason Isaac’s was wonderfully sinister as the Judge.  I won’t give spoilers but I can see why they cast him in that role.  My biggest issue was an element that appeared in episodes nine and ten that I personally found very hard to watch.  But it pushed that character in a tough direction that I found the aftermath of wanting to see more of.  Carmilla’s quartet (herself included there) were really interesting, and I liked the relationship between Striga and Morenna.
  It’s an odd season in a way, very transitionary.  It clearly says that they are hopefully playing a longer term game with more seasons ahead, as the story was left with many threads hanging.  The music was like with season two quite nondescript most of the season... then you got to the last two episodes and the climax battle and wham!  The music totally changed and was far more what you’d expect of Castlevania.
  If I’m correct, I can also see a potential thing in how they could possibly link Castlevania to the wider Bootleg multiverse, especially Devil May Cry.  It also sort of worked it felt as akin to elements of Portrait of Ruin, and St Germain in the games, while being different. 

  I’m trying to keep this spoiler free for those who’ve not like me binged this today.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Sindra on March 05, 2020, 04:14:11 PM
TatterSeraph is being generous.

Shitty original characters that weren't enjoyable enough to really care about. Storylines that didn't go anywhere. MORE POLITICS. More drawn-out scenes that do nothing. The only things that were enjoyable were some of the pretty environments and a few easter eggs/lore nuggets.


Season 3 was a whole lot more of the shit that made season 2 boring and pointless, with far less of the fun that made season 2 tolerable.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 05, 2020, 04:22:07 PM
It focused on character development over action and plot, while serving as a transition vehicle to evolve things more intimidate a wider story.  It felt like a bridge between the CV3 adaptation of the first two seasons and towards something that feels in part inspired by CoD it seems, showing Isaac’s descent into evil insanity.  I liked the character development and philosophical stuff.  Yes, this won’t be everyone’s cup of tea, and the number of loose threads left hanging by the end some might find unsatisfying.  I also don’t mind being challenged at times with what I watch and have to think.  I don’t want all smashy smashy action with no characters.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Sindra on March 05, 2020, 05:08:12 PM
Who developed character though?


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Super Waffle on March 05, 2020, 07:16:37 PM
https://abicion.tumblr.com/post/611800427473797120/javajulien-the-second-most-brutal-death-in

sounds hot.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 05, 2020, 08:02:51 PM
Christ. I don't know what you'd consider spoilers, but there were some things I could do without.

I understand we'll take anything thrown at us at this point, but this show is getting way too angsty and often times feels like a tumblr fanfic. That says a lot, taking into consideration Castlevania as a franchise.

Fights are good, monsters look cool, but that's about it.
If you had a good time I'm not here to ruin your day, but I do feel like I'm watching my favorite thing ever die, and that sucks.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Gaawa-chan on March 05, 2020, 09:27:04 PM
Yikes, it's that bad?  Well, I kind of expected it to be bad, but still...
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: The Puritan on March 05, 2020, 10:58:01 PM
>The Pirate of the Roads
>that imbecile who put wheels on his sailboat

Did Ellis throw shade at Grant?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on March 06, 2020, 02:11:59 AM
Wow, the writing in this show is so boring! Not because there aren't enough action scenes (because those are boring too) but it's just people sitting (or standing) around talking and conveying information in the most dull and imaginable way possible. Notice for example how all the characters have the same mannerism when they speak: tilt their head, close their eyes and raise one of their arms slightly.  Interestingly enough, Warren Ellis also doubled down on his anti-religion stance this season: hell is implied to be place somehow created by the collective unconsciousness of Christians, where people who have been prosecuted as sinners by the church end up after death, such as the philisopher from Athens (this is also supposedly why Lisa is in hell now). Anyway, I could write a whole essay about why this season was bad. I think I take season 2 over this one because at least that one displayed a slightly better sense of pacing by ending after 8 episodes instead of dragging things out for 2 more.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on March 06, 2020, 04:15:13 AM
Not that anyone cares, but my review is now up on my blog (https://lumiklovstad.tumblr.com/post/611840274463916032/spoiler-free-review-of-castlevania-season-3-on).

TL;DR:
7/10, good filler season, please give our characters an actual main quest next season.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 06, 2020, 07:36:12 AM
damn i inadvertently called that shit on the symbol didn't i
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Foffy on March 06, 2020, 09:49:16 AM
Gotta say, outside of the craziness of the last two episodes, I wasn't a big fan of this season. You could have easily dropped Alucard's arc and it would have been a better show I think.

What they did to Hector made me feel sad. With no "Rosaly" like character, he's clearly become something so disconnected from his game counterpart. The meme of simps applies specifically to him.

But holy shit the fight scenes at the end. Also, in case people like easter eggs, look for the direct reference to another one of the animated projects Adi Shankar says is part of this "bootleg multiverse." It's absolutely obvious what the reference is when you see it. (https://i.redd.it/n6czhq64ezk41.png)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: GuyStarwind on March 06, 2020, 11:05:52 AM
I'm only on episode three or four. But after hearing that this season is just more of season 2, I'm iffy on it. I'll watch because it's CV, but I wish it wasn't vampire politics and characters I don't care about. I understand it needs to have a story but can't we just have it be Belmont and friends go into a giant castle and fight monsters? We all know you could make each episode a different area of the castle and unravel the story more and more as the show goes. 
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 06, 2020, 11:13:12 AM
I really do feel like story telling is a lost art. A lot of Netflix originals suffer from this problem.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: GuyStarwind on March 06, 2020, 11:24:26 AM
I really do feel like story telling is a lost art. A lot of Netflix originals suffer from this problem.

(click to show/hide)
Oh jee. What you just wrote sounds really stupid, and I'm unsure if I want to even finish this season.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on March 06, 2020, 12:51:45 PM
You could have easily dropped Alucard's arc and it would have been a better show I think.

I can't think of anything good about Alucard's subplot, at all. Outside of being offensive, it's pointless, drags on, and a ridiculous way to get the end result.

Oh good, it's not just me.

Quote from: My Review
If any character feels wasted, it was Alucard. Every time the season cuts back to him, it’s like “oh yeah he’s still here too. Don’t forget that this guy exists, mmkay?" He doesn’t really have a journey to go on this time around, and the two characters who join him are utterly forgettable and don’t add anything. It’s telling that I marathoned the whole series, finished it just 2 hours ago, and I can’t recall their names. Honestly, I would have favored cutting those two characters entirely, and paring Alucard’s scenes back as much as possible to just a set of bookending moments that began and ended the season, especially because he had so much time in the spotlight last season.

And Warren Ellis... really obviously has a fem-dom fetish. Like, holy shit it couldn't be more obvious at this point.

Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: EstebanT on March 06, 2020, 04:01:08 PM
I'm so happy people hate it too. I loved the past 2 seasons. But wow... that was so awful.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on March 06, 2020, 06:17:29 PM
It was.. alright. It does seem like a filler season, IMO. Basically, it's ending is a return to the status quo. Where it ends, all the characters are basically in the same place they were in the end of season 2...
(click to show/hide)

There were concepts I liked
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Speaking about references, was I the only one that thought
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Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on March 07, 2020, 12:33:46 AM
I'm so happy people hate it too. I loved the past 2 seasons. But wow... that was so awful.

Personally, I don't hate it. I was expecting a filler season, and that's exactly what I was given. For filler material, it's leagues better to my tastes than say, Naruto or Bleach filler arcs. It doesn't really doesn't move the needle much though, and it's far and away the least impressive season of the show as a result.

I think the future of this series would be better off if Warren Ellis stopped writing though -- his lack of care for the Castlevania franchise is really fully on display in an aggressive and belittling manner here, and that's plenty to be angry about. Also, can anything go right for Hector? Like, at all?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on March 07, 2020, 02:18:38 AM
Here's a click-baity article but it's refreshing to see an article point out the many weak points in the writing of the show instead of the constant shilling going on:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/castlevania-netflix-worst-plot-twists/amp/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/castlevania-netflix-worst-plot-twists/amp/)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on March 07, 2020, 03:16:20 AM
Here's a click-baity article but it's refreshing to see an article point out the many weak points in the writing of the show instead of the constant shilling going on:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/castlevania-netflix-worst-plot-twists/amp/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/castlevania-netflix-worst-plot-twists/amp/)

THANK GOD THEY BROUGHT UP TREVOR TURNING THE MOB. That scene made no goddamn sense. I was fully expecting a fight, and for a villager to recover something from the priest that exposed the evil behind their corrupt leadership, which would have convinced the people to fight. Instead they kind of take a disgraced excommunicate at his word based on absolutely no goddamn evidence at all, despite the fact that he's clearly being aided by a woman who meets every objective standard for "WITCH" you could have asked for in the 15th century.

Honestly, Season 1 is riddled with at least as many of these lapses in consistency as Season 2 or 3, but it's even more egregious due to the short length.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Abnormal Freak on March 07, 2020, 04:56:19 AM
It's like Warren Ellis is trying to create his own Game of Thrones but doesn't have the talent to do so. Oh, and it's Castlevania, an action series with a cool bestiary, something that should be pretty easy to adapt but was only done somewhat successfully in season 1.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: piscesdreams on March 07, 2020, 05:14:45 AM
Honestly, I thought the season started strong in the first couple of episodes, but it went downhill with filler. Oh, betrayal! How shocking! Hector and Alucard are pretty much in the same place as they were at the end of S2 and Alucard’s entire plot line feel like they just threw darts at a wall with various “ideas” and mashed them together. I feel the most interesting stuff that occurred was actually with Isaac.

The animation seemed better when not using awkward CG, and the coloring also seemed more appealing overall - could just be me. I was excited to see this season get 10 episodes but now I just feel like that hurt it. Way too much filler being dragged out and it just got plain boring.

And also, the music of course was just there and did nothing for me. It’s a shame to see this season make me question if I’ll really care to watch the show anymore.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Wallachia on March 07, 2020, 08:56:08 AM
I liked the boundaries season 3 pushed, for TV / Netflix content in itself, especially episodes 9 & 10.

And they need to let Trevor's hair grow longer already.

Insightful Warren Ellis interview:
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/6/21166209/warren-ellis-castlevania-netflix-season-3-kevin-kolde-interview (https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/6/21166209/warren-ellis-castlevania-netflix-season-3-kevin-kolde-interview)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 07, 2020, 09:20:22 AM
just popping in for a quick bit

with a couple of exceptions from first 2 seasons (mostly dracula and isaac) as well as some issues in this one, i think i enjoyed it a little bit more than the others

(click to show/hide)

that's all i got for the moment but don't think i'll go into much more, i'm done having big fights that go nowhere over this series

let the upvotes from people who still like me (all three of you lol) and downvotes from people who lowkey or highkey don't like me commence, let the spice flow
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: X on March 07, 2020, 11:00:55 AM
I really don't have any intentions to watch this series now. Maybe season's 1 & 2 are passable but season 3 sounds really, really off to me. I'll stick with the games and my own personal cannon.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Belmontoya on March 07, 2020, 11:53:51 AM
There were things I did enjoy about the first 2 seasons. Mostly animation feats. I like Samuel Deats a lot.

I was going to watch it, but I've heard enough for now. Apparently the music didn't improve, they are only leaning more into trying to be the animated GOT instead of CV. Maybe it would help if Ellis would play 1 minute of a CV game or watch a YouTube play rather than relying on wikipedia for all of his CV knowledge. I read an interview with him recently and all I could think is what the hell dude, why are you the person they chose to write this?

When CV Netlfix wins out over my urge to watch through Parks and Rec for a second time maybe I'll come back with more to say.

Since everyone here has Netlfix obviously, I recommend checking out Kingdom, it's fantastic and season 2 is coming.

https://youtu.be/HlmkL65a6QI
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 07, 2020, 01:47:17 PM
To me it was very much a world building season.  I liked that about the season.  I liked the way they are expanding on events and setting the scene with things.  It’s letting characters breathe and act, and the philosophical discussions are interesting.  I’d like to see a bit more doing things rather than just sitting round chatting, but over all I enjoyed it.  I loved Lenore, she felt like she showed up and could have walked right out the games even though she hasn’t.  My biggest issues are Hector being a bit too naive and wet puppy dog for my liking, and most of Alucard’s plot.  I’m fine with seeing his grief and self isolation and the effects on his mental health, but while I thought it interesting they have a connection to Cho turn up, I felt they could have had a smaller role.  I felt it made it a bit jarring.  I think they could have had similar ideas of what to explore without focusing on the fanboy and fangirl thing.  Alucard, while young, felt a bit out of character.  Sypha was hilarious, although I thought on first watching Reynoso’s voice for her sounded a bit off in the first couple of episodes.  That said I love how badass she is.  I love this series has strong female characters who have their own agency, who aren’t just there to be brainless eye candy and be weak, simpering, and unable to do things for themselves.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on March 07, 2020, 04:16:47 PM
One thing I hate about the way Netflix drops all episodes of a new season of a show  at once is how there’s never a time when all fans online are on the same page and able to discuss a particular episode.  I only watch one episode a day, so I’ll have to keep my eyes closed for a couple weeks to avoid spoilers.  Anyways, I’ll be back when I’m done, haha.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on March 07, 2020, 08:12:13 PM
You know I have to say, I actually liked this season a lot.  I was extremely disappointed with season 2, because of the ways I felt it failed as an adaption, but given how much this thing was just completely its own thing, it's not really adapting anything from the games, I found it rather enjoyable.

I thought the writing was mostly pretty great, it's really bewildering to me that so many of you are attacking that aspect.  I think the general consensus from critics is right in the money here.  Some of the vampire stuff got a little bit ridiculously sexual... But honestly... Welcome to the last two hundred years of vampire fiction... Vampires are sexual by their nature

I liked the new characters, and while Isaac and especially Alucard's arcs felt kind of forced and unnecessary, they certainly had high points that I really enjoyed.  The ending was a hard meh all around.  I'll certainly give you that Ellis is not great at endings, and their were several weird wtf moments throughout, but not enough to detract from how good the rest was.  I loved Saint Germaine and everything in the Trevor/Sypha arc, except the twist at the end with judge, that was just a twist for it's own sake.

Last thing I want to say is that this idea that the characters all end up in exactly the same place is a pretty ridiculous claim.  I mean yes, Trevor and Sypha are still out on the road hunting monsters, but they are certainly not the optimistic happy goofs they were at the end of season 2, Alucard is sad and alone, but now he's becoming a brooding and honestly creepily weird, frightening vampire hermit.  Much like a more benevolent version of Dracula from the original novel.  Hector is captive, but now he's at least close to a respectable level in Carmilla war machine.  Isaac has probably changed the least, but even he has gained greater sense of purpose and determination.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Gunlord on March 08, 2020, 12:36:48 AM
I gotta ask, cause I haven't seen it yet, but I heard there's like actual gay sex shown on screen or something like that. That doesn't perturb me, but I have to say it's pretty surprising to hear. Back in the 90s, they covered up some of the statues in Super Castlevania IV for fear of offending an American audience. How times have changed...
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Foffy on March 08, 2020, 02:17:53 PM
I gotta ask, cause I haven't seen it yet, but I heard there's like actual gay sex shown on screen or something like that. That doesn't perturb me, but I have to say it's pretty surprising to hear. Back in the 90s, they covered up some of the statues in Super Castlevania IV for fear of offending an American audience. How times have changed...

Spoilers for the show, so I'm warning you but maybe fans of the games and who have seen some stuff might get what I'm getting at. If you want to go in blind to the show, please don't open the tag. :P

(click to show/hide)

Having Warren Ellis write this show means it's going to be crude and lewd, and that was always known since the start. I think dark fantasy franchises like The Witcher have kind of numbed the general public to finding this stuff shocking in media. Look at how sex was handled in the first Witcher game to the third, and I think the movement of that needle and what we find acceptable moved along with it. I mean, didn't Season 1 actually feature child corpses? You'd figure that's a bigger line to cross.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Gunlord on March 08, 2020, 02:55:35 PM
Thanks, Foffy. Yeah, you raise a good point, shows like Game of Thrones and the Witcher have probably made folks a lot more tolerant of explicit sex in "dark fantasy" than they would have a few years ago. Well, that's all to the good, I suppose. While it sounds like they could have incorporated Alucard's sexuality more deftly/less abruptly than they did, it certainly won't keep me from watching the show...at least when I have time ;p
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 08, 2020, 03:14:12 PM
Personally, I find the idea of Alucard engaging in any kind of sexual activity to be very antithetical to his entire character. He's hell-bent on ending the legacy of his father and even taking the risk of siring a child seems very much out of character for him. Didn't IGA also say something to that effect, that this was one of the reasons Legends was retconned? I suppose that's opening a whole other can of worms right there.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 08, 2020, 08:14:55 PM
most of those "plot holes" aren't even plot holes.

Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on March 09, 2020, 02:51:33 AM
most of those "plot holes" aren't even plot holes.

Thank you for this well-argued and insightful comment.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: JR on March 09, 2020, 04:42:51 AM

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I felt the same way about it. I guess the end result probably put Alucard's motivations in a different direction, so I can't say that this side plot was pointless. But the way the buildup was executed...it was just kind of...there, I guess? Not my favorite part of the season, for sure.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 09, 2020, 04:49:48 AM
It’s actually what I disliked most tbh about the season.  Yes they needed to explore Alucard’s mental state after the events of season two.  I liked the end payoff of what he’s like at the very end.  But I didn’t entirely like what they did to get to that point.  It also felt somewhat out of character, in terms of how he responded in the moment, even with him in a fragile state. 
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 09, 2020, 05:26:38 AM
Thank you for this well-argued and insightful comment.

10 - We can't say that Alucard not saving Lisa is a plot hole, because it simply wasn't elaborated and there are plausible reasons for him not being able to do it (like, for example, simply not being there)

9 - Alucard's disdain is outright shown to be because the baby vampire skull. Considering we don't see other vampire babies, it's possible it's even a dhampir. In any case, it's clearly a moment of projection

8 - The text of point 8 literally states why it's not a plot hole. As a plot twist i mean, it's fair not to like it but it's not factually bad or anything like that

7 - Convenient but not a plot hole

6 to 4 - It's shown through his conversation with Isaac that Dracula knows Carmilla is stirring shit and plotting and he literally desn't give a flying fuck because he's depressed af

3 - He's literally "taking the responsabilities of his lineage" by travelling to kill the monsters though....

2 - See 8. Besides, odds of him going full Dracula are slim.

1 - Again, the same as point 8
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 09, 2020, 08:07:26 AM
My guess is he might go bad guy for a bit, much as how in CV3 it’s possible that he started out on his father’s side rather than testing Trevor, or a la Kid Dracula, before Trevor and Sypha manage to bring him back round to his senses after finding out trouble is afoot around the castle.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: X on March 09, 2020, 10:20:21 AM
Quote
Personally, I find the idea of Alucard engaging in any kind of sexual activity to be very antithetical to his entire character. He's hell-bent on ending the legacy of his father and even taking the risk of siring a child seems very much out of character for him.

Definitely agree with this. Even though the netflix series is its own thing, Alucard couldn't be far more off from his character. It's true vampires are far more sexual in nature, and it's also true that that it's largely a Victorian era thing for literature, it is simply not Alucard's character. In fact we know very little of Dhampyres in terms of their sexual potency. They're probably more into it then humans, but less then straight-up vampires. But all I know is that this isn't Alucard's cup of tea; straight and/or otherwise. He willingly chose to remain alone due to the fear of his cursed bloodline. He's not going to crawl into the sack with anyone because of this.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 09, 2020, 12:49:07 PM
What am I supposed to believe here? Alucard would have jumped in bed with Trevor and Sypha if they let him? Is that what those dolls are for?

Fuck's sake, maybe I'm not a prude. Maybe I just want Castlevania and porn separate. It was just enough to be too much. I think this kind of stuff panders to the lowest denominator.
Honestly, the older I get the more tired I am of sex appeal practically being the forefront of people's engagement in entertainment. Seems like all people care about is who is fucking who, or who they want to see fuck who. It's mentally exhausting. You know what's pretty neat? Magic. Sypha does that.

This is not the same complaint as covering up statues in Castlevania IV, bloody hell.
My complaint with this though doesn't even crack the surface by comparison in terms of the Netflix show's terrible pacing/plot twists.
I know Alucard is a little brooding, but he's not this much of a bitch. Being in the same show as Hector doesn't make it look any better.
That end fight of S2 can't carry the entire show. For the most part it's just... garbage. It tries so hard to be gritty I can't tell if it's actually a dark comedy and I'm not in on the joke.

"Your life's work makes Him puke."
If I didn't know any better I'd think these scripts were written by some kid from a gated community who had to go to Sunday school all the way up until he got out of high school and just got his first pc.

What really grinds my gears though is that this show is the face of Castlevania as far as the rest of the world is concerned. I can't really brush it off as a side-thing.
There are things to like, but they're just too far and few between.

To think I once thought Curse of Darkness was making things weird with Isaac.
Can you ever forgive me, CoD?

Isn't it kind of strange though, that Isaac of all characters isn't... portrayed in any sexual manner in this show? Why the hell not? Am I missing the point? Is it just opposite day?
Also, Isaac, the reason people don't like your stupid ass is because you're rolling into town with hellbeasts animated from the corpses of people that were presumably somebody's relatives.
The philosophy in this is almost as bad as the Legacy of Kain series. "Duh, humans are just as bad." Like, guys, I don't know how to tell you this but at the end of the day you're still monsters.
Everybody sucks, but that doesn't make you "woke."
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on March 09, 2020, 01:42:34 PM
10 - We can't say that Alucard not saving Lisa is a plot hole, because it simply wasn't elaborated and there are plausible reasons for him not being able to do it (like, for example, simply not being there)

I think you're being too hung up on the definition of "plot hole". The point of the article is too point out weak points in the writing of the show. If a story doesn't address something in the story that really should be addressed in someway, it's perfectly valid to criticize that aspect of the writing. 

9 - Alucard's disdain is outright shown to be because the baby vampire skull. Considering we don't see other vampire babies, it's possible it's even a dhampir. In any case, it's clearly a moment of projection

The sudden introduction of morally ambiguity is really weird, though. All the vampires in the show are shown to display nothing but cruelty and contempt for humans, so why is this suddenly being introduced? The way it's done just makes it look like a half-baked idea Ellis never got to properly develop.

8 - The text of point 8 literally states why it's not a plot hole. As a plot twist i mean, it's fair not to like it but it's not factually bad or anything like that

Again, if something isn't stricly a plot hole doesn't mean it's exempt from criticism. The whole Sleeping Soldier thing is just clumsy writing. It's only mentioned so that the characters have an excuse to go down the catacombs to look for Alucard, even though there's no reason why there would be a centuries old legend about him. Ellis tried to handwave that by saying the legend is actually a prophecy even though the legend isn't phrased in such a way that suggest it's actually a future event. It shows Ellis didn't bother properly thinking how to move the characters from scene a to scene b in a way that makes sense.   

7 - Convenient but not a plot hole

It's nonsensical. The article actually does a good job of explaining this.

6 to 4 - It's shown through his conversation with Isaac that Dracula knows Carmilla is stirring shit and plotting and he literally desn't give a flying fuck because he's depressed af

But why is Dracula suddenly depressed when he didn't act that way in season 1 at all? There's no clear event that triggers this behaviour, so it's just a flimsy excuse to make the plotting happpen. Besides, as the article pointed out, there isn't even a good reason why Dracula would need to summon generals and plan out a strategy considering the powers he displayed in the first season. If you have the power to hurl fire balls from the sky you should be able to conquer or destroy any medieval settlement without much trouble.  The idea of Dracula having his own court is interesting but the way it's executed in season 2 isn't very well thought out, unfortunately. 

Anyway, I think all criticism points (except point 3, I guess) have some merit and I'm suprised you aren't willing to concede to even one.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Flame on March 09, 2020, 05:01:26 PM
OH BOY OPINION TIME
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: eryson on March 09, 2020, 05:07:50 PM
Well, I personally liked this season, Including those things that people will be salty about.
The dialogues have some weak points but a lot of good ones, the scene with Alucard showed greatly how lonesome he is, while with Hector was good too because presented the notion of how much he's being manipulated, and that's ok.

but is still very fun to see some guys in all places being ultra salty as if their opinions would change how Konami should work, I almost forgot the existence of those guys >:D
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Flame on March 09, 2020, 05:17:53 PM

Fuck's sake, maybe I'm not a prude. Maybe I just want Castlevania and porn separate. It was just enough to be too much. I think this kind of stuff panders to the lowest denominator.
Honestly, the older I get the more tired I am of sex appeal practically being the forefront of people's engagement in entertainment. Seems like all people care about is who is fucking who, or who they want to see fuck who. It's mentally exhausting.
I feel it's fine, if it actually services the plot in a meaningful way, which neither of the two bits here do. Both are just contrived means to forward the plot, instead of advancing any kind of character development or to accomplish anything significant.

Granted they were unnecessary to begin with, but it wouldve been fine if they served a purpose.


Quote
"Your life's work makes Him puke."
If I didn't know any better I'd think these scripts were written by some kid from a gated community who had to go to Sunday school all the way up until he got out of high school and just got his first pc.
To be fair, while the subversiveness of Netflix is most certainly why that exists, that one in particular worked just fine, seeing as the Bishop in particular was anything but a holy man. So it works. that whole scene with the demon in the church was brilliant. and contrasts nicely with the common priest showcased later who creates holy water from the well to aid the fight against the demons





Quote
Isn't it kind of strange though, that Isaac of all characters isn't... portrayed in any sexual manner in this show? Why the hell not? Am I missing the point? Is it just opposite day?
Also, Isaac, the reason people don't like your stupid ass is because you're rolling into town with hellbeasts animated from the corpses of people that were presumably somebody's relatives.
The philosophy in this is almost as bad as the Legacy of Kain series. "Duh, humans are just as bad." Like, guys, I don't know how to tell you this but at the end of the day you're still monsters.
Everybody sucks, but that doesn't make you "woke."
Yeah while I like what they did with Isaac, the way his movement progresses is absolutely ridiculous.
>roll up to a town with hellspawn
>get turned away by guards who have no interest in having that shit marauding through their town
>HUMANS R BAD AND MEAN BECAUSE THEY DIDNT LET ME THROUGH

it would have MUCH better serviced his philosophy if he was instead befriended by people who later betray him, which cements his view that humans are evil and those acts of kindess are flukes.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 09, 2020, 05:50:32 PM
A small touch this season I did appreciate was the Beelzebub cameo in the priory, complete with flies buzzing about it, as the figure hung upside down at the altar.  Little references in the art has been something I’ve enjoyed while watching.  The Legion one was one of the less subtle, but an interesting way to get in a game nod.  Also aside for some of the slight jerkiness at moments, the art seems to be getting much better with each season, such as the quality of the background art details, and character designs too.  The map details were really good, and if you look closely, it’s labelled as being by S. Stark - one of the animator guys, who also shows up as part of Legion.  I also keep thinking that Carmilla’s castle resembles the castle in LoS. A small detail I discovered this evening is that Lindenfeld is a real place in Romania.  It’s a now abandoned town that was a German colony town established in the 19th century.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 09, 2020, 06:27:07 PM
I'll probably be cutting my ties with Castlevania (in a way). It's a shame beacuse it's been my favorite franchise video game or otherwise nearly my whole life. Just isn't my cup of tea with the show.
Trying to figure out where I'd put the line though. I wasn't thrilled with Lords of Shadow. Even the parts of it that are good aren't really Castlevania worthy. It's easier to think of it as another game series. Combo system was great.

Wasn't with Judgment (aesthetically, but gameplay was fun). Don't really like Harmony of Despair but 1000+ hours makes me a hypocrite. Still salty about how mean that game is to players without boots.
I don't know, somewhere in there with Order of Ecclesia and Adventure ReBirth.

It'd be nice to see a new game from Konami, but I'm not sure if it'd be something I'd want. I don't know anything about the recent mobile game, and don't do mobile gaming.
Bloodstained was great.

By the way if you want a chuckle, I had a fever and hadn't slept or eaten for four days (spent most of yesterday in the hospital and turns out I have pneumonia). Anyway I genuinely thought I was having fever dreams for a moment when Alucard and Hector's subplot abruptly got weird.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 09, 2020, 07:52:49 PM
I heard someone was slandering legacy of kain what the fuck is this heresy
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 09, 2020, 08:16:37 PM
I heard someone was slandering legacy of kain what the fuck is this heresy

I'd take a bullet for Legacy of Kain but it's got some rough parts.

Please, I've been through a lot lately, I'm not sure I'd make it through a conversation about time travel. :-X
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 09, 2020, 08:24:56 PM
okay fine no casting into the abyss
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: GuyStarwind on March 09, 2020, 10:06:58 PM
After all I've been reading, I don't think I'll finish it.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Holy Diver on March 10, 2020, 03:32:58 AM
A small touch this season I did appreciate was the Beelzebub cameo in the priory, complete with flies buzzing about it, as the figure hung upside down at the altar.  Little references in the art has been something I’ve enjoyed while watching.  The Legion one was one of the less subtle, but an interesting way to get in a game nod.  Also aside for some of the slight jerkiness at moments, the art seems to be getting much better with each season, such as the quality of the background art details, and character designs too.  The map details were really good, and if you look closely, it’s labelled as being by S. Stark - one of the animator guys, who also shows up as part of Legion.  I also keep thinking that Carmilla’s castle resembles the castle in LoS. A small detail I discovered this evening is that Lindenfeld is a real place in Romania.  It’s a now abandoned town that was a German colony town established in the 19th century.
Yeah man, those are highlights of the season IMO.
(click to show/hide)

At this point I've made piece with the series being a GoT with a Castlevania resking, but someone should put Ellis at gunpoint and make him study the games somewhat.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 10, 2020, 10:39:37 AM
Whereas that’s the bit I didn’t like at all.  It felt very dubious on the consents best, which is not ok.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 10, 2020, 11:51:17 AM
post

I think that most of the points mentioned are quite relative, but personally i didn't find them bad, which is why i didn't "concede" anything. You're allowed to your own opinion though

Regarding Alucard and baby vampire skull: again, i think he's projecting. Vampires have been portrayed as bad but he did have a good childhood and Drac apparently did behave then, so he's probably thinking something along the lines of "if the Belmonts had been in full force then they might have whipped my ass and added my polished skull here regardless of how we lived" so his reaction does kinda make sense.

Regarding Dracula's "personality change": allow me to remind you that grief has several stages with anger being the common second reaction after denial. Depression comes after anger (and bargaining)

What am I supposed to believe here? Alucard would have jumped in bed with Trevor and Sypha if they let him? Is that what those dolls are for?

As he points out, he's going mad of loneliness. I supose that before he had his parents but besides them, he didn't have friends to truly know and "suffer" the consequences of being completely alone (he sealed himself to sleep after Lisa's death to top it off). While the answer to your question is "who knows", at the start of S3 he was emotionally weak and he craved close relationships, which could easily include sexual relationships.

Yeah while I like what they did with Isaac, the way his movement progresses is absolutely ridiculous.
>roll up to a town with hellspawn
>get turned away by guards who have no interest in having that shit marauding through their town
>HUMANS R BAD AND MEAN BECAUSE THEY DIDNT LET ME THROUGH

it would have MUCH better serviced his philosophy if he was instead befriended by people who later betray him, which cements his view that humans are evil and those acts of kindess are flukes.

I think the point was to showcase that while Isaac isn't fully wrong, he's far from right (and sane) as well.

I also keep thinking that Carmilla’s castle resembles the castle in LoS. A small detail I discovered this evening is that Lindenfeld is a real place in Romania.  It’s a now abandoned town that was a German colony town established in the 19th century.

it looks like if the LoS castle had a baby with Quel'thalas from WoW

Whereas that’s the bit I didn’t like at all.  It felt very dubious on the consents best, which is not ok.

While the twins behavior can probably considered predatorial, considering his emotional state, I don't think it was dubious consent all, he clearly was into it. However the scene is framed and scored to make US feel wrong, to build tension for the betrayals. (Just like in Hector's case)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: wiseman on March 10, 2020, 12:31:48 PM
Whereas that’s the bit I didn’t like at all.  It felt very dubious on the consents best, which is not ok.
I feel like that was the point. The whole score and framing of the scene was meant to communicate that something bad is happening.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 10, 2020, 06:00:25 PM
Yes, he responded somewhat, but the way that the tear ran down his cheek along with the way that he was pinned down is exactly what made the consent so dubious.  Given his mental well-being as well that further makes the consent given explicitly.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Wallachia on March 12, 2020, 11:41:17 PM
Is that Alucard who throws St. Germaine the amulet, and who he loves? Seems like it..
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on March 13, 2020, 05:04:05 AM
The different worlds San German had glimpses of were pretty bizarre. I wonder if any of those mean anything, or if they were just random

Overall, while there are some issues here n there with the narrative, I’m glad that this Castlevania “anime” exists, as it’s allowing for actual discussion again. Like AlexCalvo said, I too am somewhat bewildered that some of you are of the mindset of “I’d rather have nothing Castlevania-related at all than watch this travesty!” Even though none of you literally said those words, that’s the sentiment I am getting while reading some of your opinions

I specifically enjoyed the scene where Isaac was conversing with the “demon with the eyes.” We rarely if ever get to hear THEIR side of the story, so I liked that. In my opinion, he was leaving out an important part to why he was damned to Hell just for “being a philosopher goes against God.” When he was human he probably raped women or was a pedophile, who knows. I like how it made me speculate on what the truth could really be
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on March 13, 2020, 08:45:47 AM
The different worlds San German had glimpses of were pretty bizarre. I wonder if any of those mean anything, or if they were just random

Overall, while there are some issues here n there with the narrative, I’m glad that this Castlevania “anime” exists, as it’s allowing for actual discussion again. Like AlexCalvo said, I too am somewhat bewildered that some of you are of the mindset of “I’d rather have nothing Castlevania-related at all than watch this travesty!” Even though none of you literally said those words, that’s the sentiment I am getting while reading some of your opinions

I specifically enjoyed the scene where Isaac was conversing with the “demon with the eyes.” We rarely if ever get to hear THEIR side of the story, so I liked that. In my opinion, he was leaving out an important part to why he was damned to Hell just for “being a philosopher goes against God.” When he was human he probably raped women or was a pedophile, who knows. I like how it made me speculate on what the truth could really be

I got the idea that he went to hell for giving away the other people.  The comment about the world being crazy was about how he did what he was forced to do by the people claiming he'd go to hell, then went to hell for doing what they told him to do.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on March 13, 2020, 08:15:07 PM
(click to show/hide)

Anyone else think that St. Germain’s lost companion could essentially be a gender swapped Aeon?  Aha the strange things that pop into a fan’s head sometimes.

Overall, I was very satisfied with the way the season turned out, however many tragedies might have been in it.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on March 13, 2020, 09:41:43 PM
(click to show/hide)

Anyone else think that St. Germain’s lost companion could essentially be a gender swapped Aeon?  Aha the strange things that pop into a fan’s head sometimes.

Overall, I was very satisfied with the way the season turned out, however many tragedies might have been in it.

I thought exactly that.  Before we saw that it was a woman he was looking for I thought it was just going to be (pseudo)regular Aeon.  But honestly...  Warren Ellis doesn't care enough about the lore of the games to do something like that.  It will either be an original character, or someone from the historical Saint Germaine's life.  The character is much more based on him than the Castlevania version.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on March 14, 2020, 04:34:01 AM
Could all of the terrible things that transpired in Season 3 be attributed to Dracula’s Curse, or was it all just a sad commentary on human nature?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on March 14, 2020, 07:29:33 AM
Could all of the terrible things that transpired in Season 3 be attributed to Dracula’s Curse, or was it all just a sad commentary on human nature?

Warren Ellis is the edgiest of edgelords, so it's the latter.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on March 14, 2020, 08:12:03 AM
The season could’ve been shorter than it was, like 7 or 8 episodes. Like others have said, a bit too much exposition & dialogue. Although I enjoyed the character development, a lot of times I kept saying to myself “okay get on with it already” and move on to the next scene. But I understand they’re trying to showcase the “in-between” time after Dracula’s defeat; the games cut right to the chase, Dracula is revived, Belmont/a new protagonist steps to kill him, the end. But what about after? The games never explore that, so that’s what this series is trying to do.

They just need to work on the pacing issues between the downtime & action, and we should be okay moving forward
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 14, 2020, 10:31:22 AM
The season could’ve been shorter than it was, like 7 or 8 episodes. Like others have said, a bit too much exposition & dialogue. Although I enjoyed the character development, a lot of times I kept saying to myself “okay get on with it already” and move on to the next scene. But I understand they’re trying to showcase the “in-between” time after Dracula’s defeat; the games cut right to the chase, Dracula is revived, Belmont/a new protagonist steps to kill him, the end. But what about after? The games never explore that, so that’s what this series is trying to do.

They just need to work on the pacing issues between the downtime & action, and we should be okay moving forward

I seriously do hope that this is the case and that something comes of the whole "trying to revive Dracula"-thing. Without him, the series just feels even less than Castlevania than it does already. If the series had any strengths, Dracula was undoubtedly the biggest plus, as his depiction, while certainly morose, was very true to the games and proper canon.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on March 14, 2020, 12:16:20 PM
I went to GameStop and I seen they have Trevor Sypha & Alucard available... but they were trash. Terrible sculpt, especially on Alucard’s face so they were an easy pass for me. The only one I think worth getting would be Dracula, because I saw promo images of him & it looked great. But they might screw it up when it gets to retail so fingers crossed
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 14, 2020, 02:44:31 PM
Could all of the terrible things that transpired in Season 3 be attributed to Dracula’s Curse, or was it all just a sad commentary on human nature?

i think it's both. We have the Prior and the monks who were literally corrupted by a demon into sacrificing the whole town, while on the other hand we have The Magician who was a complete monster on his own. The Judge stands in the middle, being both monstruous but having a righteous/dutiful side as well, while the japanese might be a result of being raised by a sadist monster...
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on March 14, 2020, 06:07:05 PM
I just hope we eventually see Death. He is Dracula’s confidant, after all. It would be cool that if Dracula’s acolytes tried to resurrect him, they fail and inadvertently summon Death itself. Then HE becomes the antagonist momentarily, Trevor & co. attempt to defeat him, but fail & he successfully resurrects Dracula using Isaac as a vessel. It would be kinda cool if they bring back Sir Patrick Stewart to voice Death


I want them to continue with this show, because Konami isn’t doing anything substantial with the series & the closest thing we have is Grimoire of Souls, which isn’t even released & is more like a beta half-game  :rollseyes:


I enjoy the debates we all are having & I want that to continue
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on March 15, 2020, 03:32:51 AM
I want them to continue with this show, because Konami isn’t doing anything substantial with the series & the closest thing we have is Grimoire of Souls, which isn’t even released & is more like a beta half-game  :rollseyes:


I enjoy the debates we all are having & I want that to continue

No kidding. At this point, the Netflix series is basically all that's keeping this forum alive. Sure it shuffles around the rest of the time and acts out old routines, but then again, so do ghosts.

This place really livens up when there's new content, and, at least to a degree, I like that Ellis diverges so much from what's been established because "New Series --> Initial Backlash --> Second Considerations --> Candid Discussion" both takes longer and is more interesting than "New Series --> Yahoo it's a copy of what we've already seen and done --> Wasn't it neat how they animated that bit? --> Oh hey look we're out of topics again". In that sense at least, divided opinions come with a fair few silver linings. Those creative liberties also mean that not even the most lore obsessed among our ranks has all the answers in advance: everyone will be seeing at least something new with each new season -- whether we like what we see or not... well, that's a matter for (hopefully in depth) debate.

Ellis really needs to stop tormenting Hector and Alucard already though; they do enough of that themselves. They don't need help.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 15, 2020, 05:27:29 AM
I agree completely.  All too often these forums are just sitting here idle, with nothing to discuss.  Also, while yeah, it would be nice again to have something a bit closer to some of the game plot, it feels like they are also filling in some of the time gap between the events of Dracula’s Curse, and the defeat of Dracula, and the events of Curse of Darkness, while also taking their own direction.  If I’d wanted a carbon copy adaption of the games I’ll just play the games.  Let the series breathe and do it’s own thing.  Plus it’s awesome seeing more of the world in which these guys are existing.  They aren’t in a vacuum.
  I also agree that I think Hector especially is being kicked too hard.  As for Alucard, while I don’t entirely agree with some of their choices made, I like that we’re seeing the effects of his grief, and seeing how he grows into the distanced but quiet man that he becomes as an immortal ally and guardian of sorts to the Belmonts. 
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: |/amp /-/unter }{ on March 15, 2020, 08:02:25 AM
I hate Warren Ellis.  How anyone let someone that has absolutely no respect for the source material at hand be the head of this clusterf*ck is beyond me.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 15, 2020, 09:08:29 AM
I am quite bemused at this fanbase horny angry feelings about Lenore.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Flame on March 15, 2020, 11:00:00 AM
I just hope we eventually see Death. He is Dracula’s confidant, after all. It would be cool that if Dracula’s acolytes tried to resurrect him, they fail and inadvertently summon Death itself. Then HE becomes the antagonist momentarily, Trevor & co. attempt to defeat him, but fail & he successfully resurrects Dracula using Isaac as a vessel. It would be kinda cool if they bring back Sir Patrick Stewart to voice Death
I like this idea.
And, from a writing POV, it would be a pretty good way to bring Death into the story. From a japanese perspective, I know Shinigami are a more plural thing, just like they have other mythological creatures, but they style it after the grim reaper, which from a western POV is literally a singular, supernatural entity who is supposed to be neutral and all encompassing.

As Neil Gaiman had his death put it, the one who will outlast the universe and close the door on the way out once the time comes.

Which was always weird to have as a lackey to Dracula.

Which is why I felt the LoS approach had considerable merit in the approach of basically being a necromancer type character.

So I could see Death being introduced as some kind of powerful necromancer demon summoned by those wishing to resurrect Dracula.

(click to show/hide)

So would be interesting to have a Death type character to use some sort of scheme to resurrect him by force.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 15, 2020, 11:00:59 AM
We won't know if Warren has made his parents angry enough until S4.

The problem with things like this is the bar doesn't get higher.
I understand vampire media has had its fair share of similar themes, but not once did I get that vibe from Castlevania. Not like this.
Castlevania was fun, stood on its own merit/aesthetic.

I grew up in a shithole in Southern California during the '80s/'90s. Among every other ghetto cliche, as a child I'd walk by people fucking in broad daylight at the park.
I have stories for days, but I never felt mature or enlightened for those experiences, much less revel in them.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on March 15, 2020, 01:21:58 PM
During parts of the show, I was thinking that the Visitor might have been Death.  It kind of reminded me of one of Death’s true forms, perhaps before it became so skeletal.  I dunno, they could always have it resurrect and become Death some day. 

One thing that was nice about the slow pace of the show is that it gave me plenty of time for my eyes to wander and take in the background of whatever castle, building, town, forest they happened to be in.  I always do that while playing the games, pausing the action after killing everything in the room for quite a while and just enjoy “being” there.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on March 15, 2020, 02:47:16 PM
One thing that was nice about the slow pace of the show is that it gave me plenty of time for my eyes to wander and take in the background of whatever castle, building, town, forest they happened to be in.  I always do that while playing the games, pausing the action after killing everything in the room for quite a while and just enjoy “being” there.

So glad I'm not alone in this, on both fronts. And the scenery in this season was the most gorgeous it's ever been.

I particularly liked Carmilla's castle for ditching the "VAMPIR YUZE BLACK AN RED AND ONLY BLACK AD RED MAYB SUM GOLD TRIM IF THEY FANCY" aesthetic that Vampires have been largely cursed with for god knows how long. Carmilla and her sisters give the impression of people living their immortality determined to enjoy it, surrounding themselves with nice things, wearing clothes they like, enjoying food they can't even derive sustenance from, decorating the castle in whites and primary colors, and with Lenore especially taking time to just admire the land around them.

"I don't see how a sunrise could possibly improve this."

Carmilla and her clan are a complete 180 from Dracula last season, who started as a firebrand, but burned out and remained kind of an angry but depressed husk unless provoked. (Evidently staying on a rage high for a whole damn year while you summon an army from hell has that effect.)

The fact that they take the time to enjoy things --with Carmilla evidently having "plotting schemes" down as a no-kidding HOBBY if her "sister's" dialog is anything to go by (if nothing else, they all agree it's her hobby)--  without a moment set aside for depressive brooding or mulling over how cursed they are or how angry and vengeful they are, was such a relief to me because it flies in the face of how vampires are typically portrayed and it's part of why I look forward to their return.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on March 15, 2020, 02:48:39 PM
I hate Warren Ellis.  How anyone let someone that has absolutely no respect for the source material at hand be the head of this clusterf*ck is beyond me.

Dave Cox has some words for you...
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: JR on March 15, 2020, 07:40:20 PM
I hate Warren Ellis.  How anyone let someone that has absolutely no respect for the source material at hand be the head of this clusterf*ck is beyond me.

I was hoping it would be more faithful to the source material, and I was initially excited that Warren Ellis was writing it, since his version of the comic series The Authority was the only one I really, really liked. The sex scenes felt weird for something with Castlevania in the title.

But I still think it could be far, far worse. I enjoy it for what it is: not perfect, but not terrible, imo. In the absence of an actual Castlevania game to play, I'll continue to watch it.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 15, 2020, 07:44:33 PM
IIRC, according to the leak Cox wasn't that big of a problem actually. The actual huge one was the other guy, Alvarez or something like that.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Foffy on March 15, 2020, 07:50:43 PM
IIRC, according to the leak Cox wasn't that big of a problem actually. The actual huge one was the other guy, Alvarez or something like that.

Cox came to this forum and lied to us about some of the decisions that went into the first Lords of Shadow game. Unless my memory is spotty, he posted here justifying the masks and how that was part of concept art that we've never seen; if he didn't do this here, then he did it in interviews that I'm layering here. Though Cox's lies were more apparent about saying that an HD version of Mirror of Fate existed and then said he didn't, and things like that.

I don't think Dave Cox disliked the source material. Enric Alvarez was the one who pushed for Dracula to be depicted the way he was in Lords of Shadow 2 and the bad ideas like the rats and stealth from the Quake looking goons with the guns.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 15, 2020, 08:00:18 PM
Cox came to this forum and lied to us about some of the decisions that went into the first Lords of Shadow game. Unless my memory is spotty, he posted here justifying the masks and how that was part of concept art that we've never seen; if he didn't do this here, then he did it in interviews that I'm layering here. Though Cox's lies were more apparent about saying that an HD version of Mirror of Fate existed and then said he didn't, and things like that.

I don't think Dave Cox disliked the source material. Enric Alvarez was the one who pushed for Dracula to be depicted the way he was in Lords of Shadow 2 and the bad ideas like the rats and stealth from the Quake looking goons with the guns.

Well truth to be said, I was thinking about Los2 when i wrote that. Cox might have been suuuuuuuper wrong about everything Castlevania but at least LoS1 plot and lore (and gp for that matter) is good enough. LoS2 is the true clusterfuck
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on March 15, 2020, 08:53:04 PM
Guys, sex is a part of life. You’re here because your mom & dad fucked each other. Stop acting like “eww, there’s sexual stuff in Castlevania.” NONE of it is graphic pornography, so if you’re not 10 years old, get the fuck over it. Seriously.

I remember when Dave Cox made an account, I think his name was “Coxee” or something like that.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 16, 2020, 01:13:03 AM
I didn’t find the sex scenes too graphic, and that’s saying something as someone who has zero interest in watching that kind of thing in films.  It’s also not as though the games haven’t involved topless female demons before.... oh hang on, Ayami Kojima’s succubus art for the succubus in SotN has versions of the picture with her boobs fully out.  They even tastefully hid things they couldn’t show in shadows. What was so novel here was the fact that one scene involved gay sex as part of a threesome, even if consent there was rather dubious at best, and in the other, it was consensual, and had the woman in charge, which honestly, I found refreshing for a change.  It didn’t play to the normal vampire film tropes of women being victimised.  It has strong women in this show.  So even if some things might be a bit questionable, it did do some things right.  Also, just look at Sypha’s reaction when Trevor claimed the beer was better than sex.  She’s strong and has her own agency, and she’s the kind of female character we need more of on screen.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 16, 2020, 11:18:05 AM
Guys, sex is a part of life. You’re here because your mom & dad fucked each other. Stop acting like “eww, there’s sexual stuff in Castlevania.” NONE of it is graphic pornography, so if you’re not 10 years old, get the fuck over it. Seriously.


Taking a shit is also part of life but that doesn't mean I want the Alucard dumping ass subplot.
10 year olds are the ones into shock value and gritty bullshit, mate.

Edit: Also, are you suggesting it'd be fine if I watched my parents fuck?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 16, 2020, 12:38:17 PM
I mostly didn’t want it there because it didn’t feel right or necessary for Alucard, especially as considering his nature as a dhampir, it didn’t feel right that he’d be so submissive in his response, even in as vulnerable a state of mind as he’s in.  I think it would have been more in character for him to snap and be the one who’s predatory towards someone.  That said, they were aiming to break him and his trust in humans, and assault is a sure fire way to do that.  Again though, I think they could have approached the betrayal in a different direction, without resorting to sexual violence.  They could have easily, for example, broken his trust by having him explore the ruins of his mother’s house, trying to find closure for Lisa’s death, and have the villagers that he’d known growing up in Lupu turn on him, as a possibility.  It wasn’t the graphicness of how the sexual assault was handled however that was the issue.  It was the fact that going for the angle of sexual assault didn’t feel right in this case, as well as the fact that it was assault in the first place.  As hey, consent is a big thing.

However on the flip side, it was absolutely right that they explored the way that losing his mother and then killing his father has broken Alucard so utterly, especially with him then immediately becoming self isolated.  Of course it’s going to affect one’s behaviour.  Push then to do out of character and/or irrational things.  It’s easy to see how someone who’s left that broken might respond to attention of that manner at the first chance presented, through craving contact from another person, be it non sexual or sexual.  Also, Alucard is a lot younger than he is in most of the games.  He’s had a very a-typical environment growing up, with him in some ways growing up faster than the rest of him, regardless of whether you read his throwaway line to Sypha about growing up fast literally as him ageing faster than a human.

Again, it was cool that they explored characters connected to the other vampire generals who were non-speaking.  Chō was the coolest of them imo.  Again, these characters don't exist in a vacuum.  Of course someone would come looking to see what happened.  Thus Sumi and Taka arriving.  Their backstory was cool and interesting.  Their characters however, weren’t.  Herein I think lies some of the issue.

  Puzzle pieces that quite rightly should exist were put together in ways they shouldn’t.  You can see why they are there, even why they went to Dracula’s castle.  But personally I think they shouldn’t have been such major characters.  They should have shown up maybe in one or two episodes at most and been more background, or at the very least, not the ones to break Alucard in the way he was broken with a major betrayal of trust.

With Hector, my biggest complaints lie in him just being too meek.  Yes, this is a gentler Hector than in the games, but at the same time he’s just coming across as too soft, too much of a puppy dog without much spine.

All that said, I honestly really do hope this gets renewed for season four.  I want to see where this goes more.  I love seeing the world breathing and being explored, and seeing more of the characters existing.  It’s something I love seeing in fanfic, and character heavy stuff is something I love in gaming as well, be it in a computer game or in a pen and paper RPG.  You can see the love and attention this series is being given by the animator team, you can see the passion for the source material that they have just through following them on Twitter.  It’s joyous to see.  It’s joyous to see that they are bringing in new love for the series.  Something it’s badly needed in the last decade.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on March 16, 2020, 01:58:00 PM
Quote from: Lashen
Taking a shit is also part of life but that doesn't mean I want the Alucard dumping ass subplot.
10 year olds are the ones into shock value and gritty bullshit, mate.

Edit: Also, are you suggesting it'd be fine if I watched my parents fuck?

LOL no... but now that you brought that up... hehe (j/k of course)

I just feel the sexual aspects didn’t bother me as much as other people here did (I’m not easily offended). This is an adult cartoon so expect some adult stuff going on. Like I said previously, If it was extremely graphic then yeah I would feel some type of way about it
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 16, 2020, 02:32:29 PM
I don't know, the adult content and general atmosphere of this show in particular comes off as attention seeking/angsty to me. I'm really bummed about it.
There's plenty of that in things like Blade or Bloodrayne, but I more-or-less expect it there. I liked Castlevania too much as it was to enjoy the shift in tone. Even if this Alucard is technically a different Alucard, I'm not thrilled.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 17, 2020, 08:47:25 AM
Guys, sex is a part of life. You’re here because your mom & dad fucked each other. Stop acting like “eww, there’s sexual stuff in Castlevania.” NONE of it is graphic pornography, so if you’re not 10 years old, get the fuck over it. Seriously.

I remember when Dave Cox made an account, I think his name was “Coxee” or something like that.

nonono sex is sin and we shouldn't watch it. the guy spilling his guts is totally fine tho
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 17, 2020, 09:18:43 AM
nonono sex is sin and we shouldn't watch it. the guy spilling his guts is totally fine tho

Find me one complaint using sin for justification.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: X on March 17, 2020, 09:27:43 AM
Quote
nonono sex is sin and we shouldn't watch it. the guy spilling his guts is totally fine tho

lol.

'Sin' isn't a forbidden action, nor does it refer to one. It's a 'name'. Specifically the name of the ancient Middle-eastern moon god/goddess worshipped by people such as the Hittites, just one country amongst many others at the time. And sex itself isn't forbidden as we are sexual beings. The church authority just wanted another boogeyman to hold against the people for their own acquisition of power and control  :P
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 17, 2020, 10:18:05 AM
I hate to play devil's advocate here but, I mean, a lot of those mandates stem from trying to protect idiot peasants from destroying society, and not just some lust for power.
These were largely uneducated villagers who would fuck livestock if you let them. The whole "don't eat pig meat" thing was another rule to protect people from themselves.

I could spend all day taking shots at religion, but let's not pretend its worse than politics, or bad people in general. Power corrupts.
The whole "this is dumb because religion tells people not to do it" argument is in the same ballpark of intelligence as the people you think you're insulting.

This is my last attempt at explaining something fairly simple:
Sex is very subjective. Depending on its content or relation to its environment (e.g. Alucard having an orgy out of nowhere) it can either be enjoyable or gross, but seldom neutral.
Most people and entertainment providers understand this. When they do push for it, they're often confident about their audience. That, or they like shock value.
I don't want to sigh and go make a sandwich until Alucard finishes his threesome, or when Hector is done being a bitch. These scenes do nothing for me. If this were really as simple as "sex is a part of life" then all I can really do is point whoever back to my previous comment about having an Alucard taking a shit subplot.
Not only was the Alucard scene abrupt, but it might be the stupidest precursor to shutting himself off to humanity I've ever seen. It's difficult not to laugh at. I find Alucard's loneliness more embarrassing than it is deep or thought provoking. Again, Warren Ellis writes tumblr fanfic quality. It's somewhere between softcore fetish porn and a tantrum thrown by some kid who got sent to Sunday school a few too many times.

Trevor: "You know, I heard some people fuck barn animals."
Castlevania Season 3, everybody.

Is this really enjoyable? Is this really how you envisioned a Castlevania show?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Flame on March 17, 2020, 12:10:26 PM
(click to show/hide)

On the subject of Dave Cox, I'll remind people that it was him and MS initial pitch to make their game a SC4 remake. things only took a weird turn when konami started messing with whether or not it was going to be a Castlevania game, eventually resulting in it being a reboot, since they had already started working on it as a new IP before Kojima got involved and secured the Castlevania license.

From there, well, Cox is still a company man. despite what misgivings we here might have had, he isnt really too in control of that. So all his job was, was to be the face of the game and to promote it.

there was some weird shit early on, for sure. Especially that masks business. But at the end of the day, LoS1 was perfectly serviceable as a Castlevania game, even if we take in the absurd twist at the end, which seems like an idea they lifted wholesale from the Coppola movie, and thought "hey what if we applied this to castlevania" while at the same time borrowing from LoI, which itself was already a riff on the same thing.

Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on March 17, 2020, 03:56:07 PM
I seen the image Dave Cox was referring to where he said it looks like Dracula is wearing a mask. It’s from an old cover of a strategy guide for CV1 released only in Japan. It doesn’t really look like a “mask,” but it does show Dracula “removing” his face to reveal his demonic form. So that’s what he was most likely talking about.

Besides that, he blocked Nagumo on Twitter because she called him out when he lied & said Trevor & Alucard would be different characters,  So screw him  >:(
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 17, 2020, 06:59:48 PM
Besides that, he blocked Nagumo on Twitter because she called him out when he lied & said Trevor & Alucard would be different characters,  So screw him  >:(

That's just bizarre.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on March 17, 2020, 10:48:43 PM
I don't know, the adult content and general atmosphere of this show in particular comes off as attention seeking/angsty to me. I'm really bummed about it.
There's plenty of that in things like Blade or Bloodrayne, but I more-or-less expect it there. I liked Castlevania too much as it was to enjoy the shift in tone. Even if this Alucard is technically a different Alucard, I'm not thrilled.

I've always considered Castlevania a series that has plenty of mature and gory stuff in it, there is even some nudity with certain enemies mainly the Succubi, but I guess it seemed more "tame" to people due to it being a 2.D platformer?

Also the funny elements in the series such as wall chicken etc may have dampened that perception of it being a more mature and gory series as well but its a series that has you ripping apart monsters and blood splattering out, hell some bosses such as Beelzebub and The Forgotten One are especially gory and brutal and considering Adi Shankar has admitted to SOTN being his favorite (and that game just so happens to have Beezlebub as well as Succubus nudity) than it makes sense that it shaped his view on wanting a animated series to be gory and mature.

The Sex stuff did not bother me one bit even as a longtime Alucard fan, sure I felt it a bit "off" that he is apparently bisexual in the show but really it was not big deal to me since this is a show making its own spin on things and so long as it does not jump to far of the deep end I'm fine, also this show is explicitly rated for adults only on Netflix and any longtime subscriber of Netlix and online streaming services in general knows that you must either go into that show prepared for such things as gore and sex otherwise you should simply turn around.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 18, 2020, 12:00:10 AM
If Alucard stopped at any point during SotN to just start boning Richter and Maria, yeah, I'd probably feel differently about these games.
I've misjudged this fanbase. You poor souls have clearly been getting blueballed for decades and I had no idea.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on March 18, 2020, 06:54:59 AM
Oh please, stop being dramatic. If you’re going to let a couple scenes of an animated show (that’s not even canon, mind you) bother you so much that you’re second-guessing your loyalty to a 30+ year old video game series & judging an entire fanbase, then go somewhere else & talk about other things you like to play safe with
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on March 18, 2020, 07:06:11 AM
If Alucard stopped at any point during SotN to just start boning Richter and Maria, yeah, I'd probably feel differently about these games.
I've misjudged this fanbase. You poor souls have clearly been getting blueballed for decades and I had no idea.

Your either trolling or you just that much of a prude lol, in any case this series just isn't for you, my tip would be to let the rest of us enjoy it rather than wagging your finger at us.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on March 18, 2020, 07:59:29 AM
It would be interesting to see the four plots remixed into standalone episodes.  Maybe things wouldn’t seem so drawn out?  I’m not complaining myself, but it would make for an interesting way to rewatch the season.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 18, 2020, 08:10:10 AM
If Alucard stopped at any point during SotN to just start boning Richter and Maria, yeah, I'd probably feel differently about these games.
I've misjudged this fanbase. You poor souls have clearly been getting blueballed for decades and I had no idea.

Yeah, I'd thank you not to lump the entire fanbase together. We've seen many varied opinions regarding the particular scene and the entire animated series. Just because you have particularly strong opinions about it doesn't mean that everybody who even remotely disagrees is a horny teenager or a perverted plebe. As other people pointed out previously, the show isn't even canon. If it's done well or badly is up for everybody to decide for themselves, but to overreact and just hate both the games and the fanbase now for this is melodramatic nonsense.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 18, 2020, 08:20:53 AM
If Alucard stopped at any point during SotN to just start boning Richter and Maria, yeah, I'd probably feel differently about these games.
I've misjudged this fanbase. You poor souls have clearly been getting blueballed for decades and I had no idea.

gonna post this in r/inceltears lmao

Besides that, he blocked Nagumo on Twitter because she called him out when he lied & said Trevor & Alucard would be different characters,  So screw him  >:(

IDK where he originally said they'd be different characters but he should have truly gone no comment there, if only because it got him bad rep afterwards (although i think he just wanted to protect his twist)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on March 18, 2020, 09:33:00 AM
gonna post this in r/inceltears lmao

How is this even related to incels?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 18, 2020, 10:34:22 AM
How is this even related to incels?

methinks the blueballed comment, incels (hilariously) love mocking the perceived sexual deprivation of others

idfk though, i'm just in awe of the direction this thread's been going the last couple pages
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 18, 2020, 10:54:21 AM
gonna post this in r/inceltears lmao

Defending Alucard crying while getting fucked and locking himself in his house.
I'm the incel?

Look guys, you could remove these scenes and I'd still find the script mentally stunted. I was not thrilled about this show to begin with. I'm not even sure if I can excuse it as gritty. It's just... brain dead. For the record, I actually bailed on this franchise around Lords of Shadow. Granted, LoS is a godsend by comparison and I actually own those games.

I'm only here because people keep popping their head in to insult me just for the fact that I don't like these scenes.
I understand this can be confusing because the ones quoting me are cherry picking sentences and condensing any broader points about them, and seldom, if at all, addressing anything else I brought up. This is not the only reason I'm done with it.

And I wish I could write this show off as a side thing, but as I stated forever ago, this is Castlevania as far as the greater picture is concerned right now, and I find that sad. All the merchandise at places like GameStop, you name it, is Netflix Castlevania.
This show could have been a lot better. The scraps of quality it produces are far and few between. As far as it being a side thing at all is concerned, they'd have been better off not basing it on Dracula's Curse.

Edit: I'd love to get out of this thread, but I'm not about to be run out by the mob either, so that's where we're at. On a couple of posts I was trying to say my piece as maturely as possible and bail. If this counts for melodrama, I have some bad news about your cartoon.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 18, 2020, 11:41:59 AM
I'm only here because people keep popping their head in to insult me just for the fact that I don't like these scenes.
I understand this can be confusing because the ones quoting me are cherry picking sentences and condensing any broader points about them, and seldom, if at all, addressing anything else I brought up. This is not the only reason I'm done with it.

being real here i think this

Quote
I've misjudged this fanbase. You poor souls have clearly been getting blueballed for decades and I had no idea.

might be what put people off, if i had to hazard a guess

in the past i'd have be inclined to be among those who took offense at the jab, but i've hit a point where i've largely stopped giving a shit about dissenting opinions and justifying myself to this fanbase and letting people have the views they have the right to have because in my mind it's not worth fighting over anymore

but idk mate, it seems to me that particular barb is what set folks off, but i could be wrong

Edit:
Quote
I'd love to get out of this thread, but I'm not about to be run out by the mob either, so that's where we're at.

holy shit, BIG fucking mood circa last season
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on March 18, 2020, 11:53:00 AM
Defending Alucard crying while getting fucked and locking himself in his house.
I'm the incel?

Look guys, you could remove these scenes and I'd still find the script mentally stunted. I was not thrilled about this show to begin with. I'm not even sure if I can excuse it as gritty. It's just... brain dead. For the record, I actually bailed on this franchise around Lords of Shadow. Granted, LoS is a godsend by comparison and I actually own those games.

I'm only here because people keep popping their head in to insult me just for the fact that I don't like these scenes.
I understand this can be confusing because the ones quoting me are cherry picking sentences and condensing any broader points about them, and seldom, if at all, addressing anything else I brought up. This is not the only reason I'm done with it.

And I wish I could write this show off as a side thing, but as I stated forever ago, this is Castlevania as far as the greater picture is concerned right now, and I find that sad. All the merchandise at places like GameStop, you name it, is Netflix Castlevania.
This show could have been a lot better. The scraps of quality it produces are far and few between. As far as it being a side thing at all is concerned, they'd have been better off not basing it on Dracula's Curse.

Edit: I'd love to get out of this thread, but I'm not about to be run out by the mob either, so that's where we're at. On a couple of posts I was trying to say my piece as maturely as possible and bail. If this counts for melodrama, I have some bad news about your cartoon.

So let me get this straight, your now playing the "victim" saying we are a mob trying to "run you out" despite the fact that you made a comment like this?

Quote
I've misjudged this fanbase. You poor souls have clearly been getting blueballed for decades and I had no idea.

Now I'm convinced, your either trolling or legit delusional as to what is going on here, it wasn't your opinion that earned you the responses you got in this past page it was HOW you got them across at the expense of the fanbase with the commented quoted above, can a moderator be so kind as to step in a moderate this?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 18, 2020, 12:03:16 PM
The blueballed comment is a follow up tongue-in-cheek reply to DarkPrinceAlucard regarding the perceived tameness of 2d platformers. It went along with my remark about Alucard having a threesome with Maria and Richter in the middle of SotN. It's sarcasm, meant to drive home the point that there are obviously better reasons this fanbase exists in the first place, things about Castlevania sorely lacking in the Netflix show, like a beautiful aesthetic, amazing music, etc. Virtually everything that separates it from, well, the generic, nihilistic, gritty atmosphere of any other vampire media. Most things that make Castlevania special are subtle or absent here. The fact that children will stumble across Simon or Richter in Smash Ultimate, but have to dig past the Netflix show as the current face of the franchise, just to reach its roots, is a little depressing.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Gunlord on March 18, 2020, 06:43:28 PM
I haven't seen the 3rd season yet, but from what friends have told me, some of the sex stuff does seem a little too outlandish for my tastes. However, as a moderator, yeah, I think some of the rhetoric you're putting out is overblown, Lashen, and I'd like you to turn it down. From what I've seen (again, gifs and such), the new season does have some nice animation, so there's that, it's not just a case of "blue balls." Also, in reference to kids, remember that Castlevania has always had very mature undertones. Even if kids weren't "exposed" to the sex in CVS3, playing Symphony of the Night would "expose" them to things like a rotting corpse spewing out demons from the gaping, pustulent wounds in its torso (Beelzebub) or a giant mass of bloody, Satanic flesh (the Forgotten One in LoI) or whatever. Let's not get too "think of the children" in here, alright? Again, I can understand not liking S3, but it's certainly not the worst thing in the world either.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Abnormal Freak on March 18, 2020, 08:30:59 PM
Pretty sure the dudes justifying Ellis' shitty storytelling and edgelordery would be totally repulsed by A Serbian Film, lol.

Which is a good movie, by the way. Funny, too.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lashen on March 18, 2020, 09:42:09 PM
I don't know why people keep trying to make a sex + gore connotation. I'm not. These things are different, and would contribute differently. I don't think I'm morally superior (though the thing I said about kids is a little sad to me), I just think the show is bad. No, I probably still wouldn't like it if it were written in better, but there's an added sting in now poorly it's put together. That being said, SotN's content is a lot tamer than this. It's a bad comparison.
The sexual content is just too out of left field, drags on, and interrupts the only good fight in the season. Even without it Isaac would still be wandering around with a pack of hellspawn animated from the corpses of somebody's relatives trying to sound poetic like society is to blame. Hector I presume would still be someone's boy slave. There would still be the hole full of dead little kids at the end because every good society figure is secretly evil. S1 and 2 weren't my cup of tea but Ellis really does seem like he lives for angst. I can't justify a guy who has never played the games writing for a video game adaptation greenlit by a company that doesn't care about its fans.

Now, I'm out. I'm sure everyone's fine with that. I'd only be repeating myself. If I go on this is going to condense itself to "it's bad," "no it's not."
I genuinely thought more people would share my opinion at the start of this. Thought wrong. Sorry I upset anyone or whatever you consider it.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on March 19, 2020, 01:45:23 AM
Even without it Isaac would still be wandering around with a pack of hellspawn animated from the corpses of somebody's relatives trying to sound poetic like society is to blame.

Haha, this nicely sums up why I thought Isaac's storyline fell flat. The idea is interesting but the execution just doesn't work.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on March 19, 2020, 01:59:25 AM
Haha, this nicely sums up why I thought Isaac's storyline fell flat. The idea is interesting but the execution just doesn't work.

*Wandering around with a literal army of reanimated hellspawn, organ-spilling undead, and fly-eyed monstrosities*

*gets rejected*

Truly, nobody should have reliably anticipated this.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Scarlet starlet on March 19, 2020, 07:11:48 AM
I don't know why people keep trying to make a sex + gore connotation. I'm not. These things are different, and would contribute differently. I don't think I'm morally superior (though the thing I said about kids is a little sad to me), I just think the show is bad. No, I probably still wouldn't like it if it were written in better, but there's an added sting in now poorly it's put together. That being said, SotN's content is a lot tamer than this. It's a bad comparison.
The sexual content is just too out of left field, drags on, and interrupts the only good fight in the season. Even without it Isaac would still be wandering around with a pack of hellspawn animated from the corpses of somebody's relatives trying to sound poetic like society is to blame. Hector I presume would still be someone's boy slave. There would still be the hole full of dead little kids at the end because every good society figure is secretly evil. S1 and 2 weren't my cup of tea but Ellis really does seem like he lives for angst. I can't justify a guy who has never played the games writing for a video game adaptation greenlit by a company that doesn't care about its fans.

Now, I'm out. I'm sure everyone's fine with that. I'd only be repeating myself. If I go on this is going to condense itself to "it's bad," "no it's not."
I genuinely thought more people would share my opinion at the start of this. Thought wrong. Sorry I upset anyone or whatever you consider it.

Don't worry bro we are on the same boat
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 19, 2020, 10:31:02 AM
Haha, this nicely sums up why I thought Isaac's storyline fell flat. The idea is interesting but the execution just doesn't work.

I think that last sentence sums up the entire show quite nicely. There *are* good moments in the show, but overall, it's just not very good and many times, lacks what ultimately gave Castlevania its own identity in the first place.

Still, it could be loads worse, adaptations wise. It could be like the Star Wars Sequels. Urgh.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 19, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Haha, this nicely sums up why I thought Isaac's storyline fell flat. The idea is interesting but the execution just doesn't work.

I think that's the point of Isaac's plot though. He has a point but he is very wrong
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on March 19, 2020, 11:37:37 AM
I thought the overall narrative in the Lords of Shadow series was far worse than what we’re watching now

I’m curious, have any of you read the Belmont Legacy limited comic book series?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on March 19, 2020, 01:04:50 PM
I think that's the point of Isaac's plot though. He has a point but he is very wrong

I thought the point of Isaac's arc was to trying to make his character seem more complex and gray. The best way to achieve that is to make the audience relate to his character. However, if his position is completely unreasonable (which is the case considering how his scenes are written) there's no point to dwelling on it for so many scenes! It's a case of do it right or don't do it all.

I thought the overall narrative in the Lords of Shadow series was far worse than what we’re watching now

I’m curious, have any of you read the Belmont Legacy limited comic book series?

I've read it and I can't image anyone even remotely caring about it if it hadn't had the Castlevania brand. It doesn't have the same feel as the games (rising the question of to who it's supposed to appeal to) and taken on its own merits it's a completely unremarkable vampire story.

Having said that, I'd rather have a Belmont Legacy follow-up series than Castlevania Netflix season 4, but that's just me.  :)     
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 19, 2020, 04:47:05 PM
I thought the point of Isaac's arc was to trying to make his character seem more complex and gray. The best way to achieve that is to make the audience relate to his character. However, if his position is completely unreasonable (which is the case considering how his scenes are written) there's no point to dwelling on it for so many scenes! It's a case of do it right or don't do it all.   

I think that's exactly why he's has a degree of gray though. We know he can be reasoned but he's not reasonable simultaneously because demons aren't good at all (like, without any shade of gray or racism there, they just aren't) yet he doesn't seem to truly rationalize that. Isaac is very much insane.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 19, 2020, 06:06:05 PM
It’s pretty clear to me that Isaac is changing from not just fanatically loyal to Dracula, but to crazy and unreasonable.  He’s getting more unstable, but rather than the camp, cackling evil he is in the game, this is a colder, quieter evil and insane, which is actually a much better take.  Yet at the moment at least, there is still something redeemable about him.  All round though it makes him a much more interesting and engaging character, more three dimensional as a person, as we see his descent, and see his journey as a character.  It’s something I like to see.

Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Sindra on March 20, 2020, 07:24:15 AM
Got my video put together that cites the references between season 3 of the show and the games, or what I found of them anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiB-g4PBM4w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiB-g4PBM4w)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on March 20, 2020, 12:22:42 PM
I think that's exactly why he's has a degree of gray though. We know he can be reasoned but he's not reasonable simultaneously because demons aren't good at all (like, without any shade of gray or racism there, they just aren't) yet he doesn't seem to truly rationalize that. Isaac is very much insane.

It's also fair to point out that he's beginning from a place of hatred toward humanity, so of course he's going to make the worst of almost every single interaction he has and never consider why people are behaving the way that they are towards him. Those two things confirm his biases, which anyone who has gone through negative bias confirmation can attest, it can feel oddly satisfying, even good. Deep down, Isaac doesn't want to see things any other way, because that would require him to do two things he really doesn't want to do: admit he was wrong, and then change his ways.

He likes being who and what he is, so any evidence that he might be wrong gets marginalized or handwaved, and he overly fixates on how his treatment makes him feel rather than considering the reasons for it, and it's possible that he may be subconsciously choosing the path of worst resistance to confirm as many biases as possible so he can have "permission" to carry out his plans. He has also surrounded himself with servants who cannot disobey him AND tell him that he is right. The way Isaac is presented in this season is essentially a character study into human bigotry and intellectual fallacy, which is... timely, if nothing else.

When he dies, it won't be as a reformed villain, admitting he is wrong, but rather, seeing his death as simply the last piece of confirmation to his views, and I'd fully expect him to quote Nero: "Qualis artifex pereo!"/"What an artist dies in me!" He really does see himself as a sort of anti-hero, raging against a corrupt system. Of course he'd ignore evidence that the system isn't actually that corrupt. Isaac will not stand to have his internal narrative meaningfully challenged, condemning him with the Sin of Pride, and blocking him off from any sort of redemption.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 20, 2020, 08:02:04 PM
unrelated to the Isaac conversation but i was thinking about the zombie priest making the river holy water last season and thinking it was to some degree criticized for being anti God/religion but... if you think about it, God is supposed to be all knowing. By letting the zombie priest turn the river into holy water he destroyed both Dracula's and Carmilla's armies, which ultimately casued the death of a bunch of vampires, the generals and Drac himself. By destroying Carmilla's army she couldn't go through with her plan there, which caused this season events and will eventually lead to the destruction of the Styrian vampire court as well.

Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 20, 2020, 08:11:03 PM
[...] i was thinking about the zombie priest making the river holy water last season and thinking it was to some degree criticized for being anti God/religion

first i've heard, that's an interesting way to look at it i hadn't considered

though, i criticize it because an "unholy" undead creature being able to successfully bless anything with prayer doesn't make a whole lot of sense, so maybe it's a given i wouldn't have thought of that stance
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on March 20, 2020, 09:52:43 PM
first i've heard, that's an interesting way to look at it i hadn't considered

though, i criticize it because an "unholy" undead creature being able to successfully bless anything with prayer doesn't make a whole lot of sense, so maybe it's a given i wouldn't have thought of that stance

🤷. We've fought several monsters with "holy" based power in the games.  Doesn't seem any different to me...

I think you have to look at it from a perspective of holy/of God =/= necessary good.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 21, 2020, 08:14:23 AM
🤷. We've fought several monsters with "holy" based power in the games.  Doesn't seem any different to me...

I think you have to look at it from a perspective of holy/of God =/= necessary good.

This would be true for the games, as well. There are some enemies in the game who make use of light/holy magic, yet fight for Dracula. It follows that holyness, in Castlevania, is a separate thing from god, while mostly associated with him. Furthermore, given that Castlevania is very much Europe and Christianity seen through a Japanese lense, god is a very intangible concept from the get-go. Far less than in fundamental Christianity, the Japanese view the christian god as a concept or idea, rather than a literal person of unlimited power. It could even be reasoned that, in the games, the christian god doesn't exist or is just some force, rather than a literal thing.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on March 21, 2020, 10:44:50 AM
This would be true for the games, as well. There are some enemies in the game who make use of light/holy magic, yet fight for Dracula. It follows that holyness, in Castlevania, is a separate thing from god, while mostly associated with him. Furthermore, given that Castlevania is very much Europe and Christianity seen through a Japanese lense, god is a very intangible concept from the get-go. Far less than in fundamental Christianity, the Japanese view the christian god as a concept or idea, rather than a literal person of unlimited power. It could even be reasoned that, in the games, the christian god doesn't exist or is just some force, rather than a literal thing.

True.  I've never taken to the idea that just because crosses and holy water work against monsters, that that means the Bible and Christianity is 100% accurate.  Especially given that we've seen items from other cultures/religions that work as well.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 21, 2020, 12:28:17 PM
i don't see why we're citing the games as evidence for this given the first two seasons of the show have considerably different world rules for this kinda thing
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 21, 2020, 01:15:31 PM
i don't see why we're citing the games as evidence for this given the first two seasons of the show have considerably different world rules for this kinda thing

Because it is fun to do.
Because others have done so before.
Because this thread is for speculation, discussion and general juxtaposition.
That the lore from the show is different from those of the games has been well-established by now.
I fail to see why you need to bring this up now of all times.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 21, 2020, 01:43:52 PM
because it was explicitly a topic about the rules of holy and unholy power within the context of the show and "well the games did it" doesn't explore how it applies under the show's world rules, and i was operating under the assumption we were going to discuss it within the framework of the show because it's quite clear by this point that the games don't hold a lot of water when it comes to explaining/rationalizing elements of the show

you know what isn't fun to do?

introducing a (comparatively) harmless confliction of perspective and getting patronized for it with premises everyone already knows by someone with a one-sided axe to grind who typically prefers to downvote just about anything i do post

it's no small wonder why i've taken to not really contributing anything meaningful to this thread/site anymore

now enact whatever this grudge you seem to have is and slap a downvote on this, i've got an image to maintain
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 21, 2020, 01:50:02 PM
because it was explicitly a topic about the rules of holy and unholy power within the context of the show and "well the games did it" doesn't explore how it applies under the show's world rules, and i was operating under the assumption we were going to discuss it within the framework of the show because it's quite clear by this point that the games don't hold a lot of water when it comes to explaining/rationalizing elements of the show

you know what isn't fun to do?

introducing a (comparatively) harmless confliction of perspective and getting patronized for it with premises everyone already knows by someone with a one-sided axe to grind who typically prefers to downvote just about anything i do post

it's no small wonder why i've taken to not really contributing anything meaningful to this thread/site anymore

now enact whatever this grudge you seem to have is and slap a downvote on this, i've got an image to maintain

The image of being a condescending hardass who seems to make low-blow comments whenever I post something? When I posted something about expressing worries about Dracula's absense from the show, you immediately posted something mockingly about that, despite, as expected, nothing coming of Dracula's resurrection plot in S3 (yet?).

I seriously suggest you remove that chip from your shoulder and let go of whatever problem you have with me. That I downvoted something of yours is due to your condescending attitude that I can't stand and that you constantly seem to direct at not only me but other select people, too. It's getting old.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 21, 2020, 02:10:10 PM
that post wasn't directed explicitly at you nor really even as a jab, as you weren't the only person i'd seen that had expressed that concern in the fanbase at large, and while i did end up being wrong the idea of being worried about absence of a character whose actor was at that point still on the castlist was something i found a little silly at the time

yes, i was wrong about the importance of grant's inclusion on the casting, but i wasn't exactly anticipating them to pull a fast one and have him on there knowing it would give impressions they weren't keeping

is an admittance of being wrong and apology for something not aimed at you what you're wanting? if that please you then yes, i was wrong and i apologize for making what to me was a light joke and not accounting for how it might read to others

i'm not sure what this chip you're referring to is, i don't actually have any beef with you, hence my confusion about whatever this vendetta you seem like you have is

if i have any chip it's related to the entire fanbase at large and how it handles certain things, and that's obviously not something that can be targeted at individual people and is also largely useless to fight against so i've learnt to mostly just deal with it because it's just ingrained at this point

i've been deliberately distancing and limiting my posts mostly to shitposts and brief statements so as not to get as involved or heated as i did in the past for the sake of not being or coming across as condescending as i've been known to, if that wasn't clear from my severely cut-back posting habits

it's good to know at least one person is proving that i've been wasting my time trying to be better, though

i'm aware this will sound fairly gaslight-y but there's no way i can think of the phrase it otherwise so please forgive it:

i've been over here limiting my interactions and trying to improve on past mistakes (fully aware that it's a slow-going and not happening overnight), and the same kind of retaliations are being thrown at me like nothing is different from a year-plus ago, and you're going to tell me something's getting old?

i don't know what you people want from me at this point, short of leaving the site altogether which if this stigma continues is starting to seem like a very appealing option
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 21, 2020, 02:22:53 PM
that post wasn't directed explicitly at you nor really even as a jab, as you weren't the only person i'd seen that had expressed that concern in the fanbase at large, and while i did end up being wrong the idea of being worried about absence of a character whose actor was at that point still on the castlist was something i found a little silly at the time

yes, i was wrong about the importance of grant's inclusion on the casting, but i wasn't exactly anticipating them to pull a fast one and have him on there knowing it would give impressions they weren't keeping

is an admittance of being wrong and apology for something not aimed at you what you're wanting? if that please you then yes, i was wrong and i apologize for making what to me was a light joke and not accounting for how it might read to others

i'm not sure what this chip you're referring to is, i don't actually have any beef with you, hence my confusion about whatever this vendetta you seem like you have is

if i have any chip it's related to the entire fanbase at large and how it handles certain things, and that's obviously not something that can be targeted at individual people and is also largely useless to fight against so i've learnt to mostly just deal with it because it's just ingrained at this point

i've been deliberately distancing and limiting my posts mostly to shitposts and brief statements so as not to get as involved or heated as i did in the past for the sake of not being or coming across as condescending as i've been known to, if that wasn't clear from my severely cut-back posting habits

it's good to know at least one person is proving that i've been wasting my time trying to be better, though

i'm aware this will sound fairly gaslight-y but there's no way i can think of the phrase it otherwise so please forgive it:

i've been over here limiting my interactions and trying to improve on past mistakes (fully aware that it's a slow-going and not happening overnight), and the same kind of retaliations are being thrown at me like nothing is different from a year-plus ago, and you're going to tell me something's getting old?

i don't know what you people want from me at this point, short of leaving the site altogether which if this stigma continues is starting to seem like a very appealing option

I can only speak for myself, but the reason why I have never been all that active here is precicely because those brief statements always seem to be a jab against me. I also find it disingenous to play the victim card when you opened the floodgates on this by making shitposts and devaluing other people's concerns. Only a few posts ago, Lashen was criticised for this behavior but when somebody criticises you for this, it is suddenly unacceptable? I have not downvoted anything of yours that contributed to the discussion, but I am not ashamed of downvoting a comment that I feel serves only to degrade other people's opinions - your posts are not the only ones getting down- or upvotes from me.

I honestly thought we had moved past this long ago. I'm sad to see that it is apparently not so.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 21, 2020, 02:38:05 PM
i'm not really intending to play victim, just making clear where i am in relation to this forum, but i admit it's pretty much impossible to do the latter without looking like i'm doing the former

i don't really understand how my switching to unserious and shitposts is really "opening floodgates" when the entire point was to change posting habits to something i'd only rarely done before to see if it made a difference in how i came across

if the issue is that some of those posts are being taken as insults, there's only so much i can do there as everything is cause for offense by someone and i'm not psychic -- and regardless of whether it's mean-spirited or not in its delivery, i just am a smartass as a person, so it's kind of a damned if i do and damned if i don't scenario in that respect

yes, i'm aware of the contextual differences between lashen's group response and mine, but i don't know offhand if lashen has quite the same history in this territory as i do, and that history does alter one's approach a bit

frankly i'm not even really saying it's unacceptable -- the statute of being better not happening overnight applies as much to public response as it does my own efforts -- but when i'm making those efforts to move past old wounds and am getting negative responses from people i previously thought i was cool and had no real beef with...

...well, it kinda becomes a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy in that the self-deprecating jokes about my "image" stems almost entirely from folks still treating me as if that image is all that i am, despite a significant lack in any of the fights or incidents that i've been infamous for in the past and thus considerable lack of any reason to react as if i had been involved in any

it's kinda a case where my steps to try and be better than i was get a response that i'm still just That Asshole, so i just sarcastically accept my social role as The Asshole and "invite" it because the impression is clearly that nothing i do is going to change anyone's minds and the version of me other people come up with is not my responsibility, so fuck it why not just go back to being The Asshole? (i'd really rather not willingly ramp back to where i was, and am not planning to, but this is kinda where my train of thought has been slowly mulling over)

you say it's sad that you thought we were past this and seemingly aren't? that's literally where i'm at and have been since the initial influx of downvotes and (to me) seemingly out of nowhere admonishments started up again
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 21, 2020, 02:42:06 PM
i'm not really intending to play victim, just making clear where i am in relation to this forum, but i admit it's pretty much impossible to do the latter without looking like i'm doing the former

i don't really understand how my switching to unserious and shitposts is really "opening floodgates" when the entire point was to change posting habits to something i'd only rarely done before to see if it made a difference in how i came across

if the issue is that some of those posts are being taken as insults, there's only so much i can do there as everything is cause for offense by someone and i'm not psychic -- and regardless of whether it's mean-spirited or not in its delivery, i just am a smartass as a person, so it's kind of a damned if i do and damned if i don't scenario in that respect

yes, i'm aware of the contextual differences between lashen's group response and mine, but i don't know offhand if lashen has quite the same history in this territory as i do, and that history does alter one's approach a bit

frankly i'm not even really saying it's unacceptable -- the statute of being better not happening overnight applies as much to public response as it does my own efforts -- but when i'm making those efforts to move past old wounds and am getting negative responses from people i previously thought i was cool and had no real beef with...

...well, it kinda becomes a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy in that the self-deprecating jokes about my "image" stems almost entirely from folks still treating me as if that image is all that i am, despite a significant lack in any of the fights or incidents that i've been infamous for in the past and thus considerable lack of any reason to react as if i had been involved in any

it's kinda a case where my steps to try and be better than i was get a response that i'm still just That Asshole, so i just sarcastically accept my social role as The Asshole and "invite" it because the impression is clearly that nothing i do is going to change anyone's minds and the version of me other people come up with is not my responsibility, so fuck it why not just go back to being The Asshole? (i'd really rather not willingly ramp back to where i was, and am not planning to, but this is kinda where my train of thought has been slowly mulling over)

you say it's sad that you thought we were past this and seemingly aren't? that's literally where i'm at and have been since the initial influx of downvotes and (to me) seemingly out of nowhere admonishments started up again

Well, then all I can suggest is that we leave it at that, try to get on topic again and, if need be, continue this via PM.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 21, 2020, 02:44:48 PM
fair, and probably good to end the derail

so waffle how long before you start having fanfic field days with the vampiress council?
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on March 21, 2020, 03:04:06 PM
so waffle how long before you start having fanfic field days with the vampiress council?

I assure you, just because it hasn't hit you yet is no guarantee it hasn't happened.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 22, 2020, 07:50:14 PM
MariaXCarmilla, MariaXLenore MariaXStriga&Morana
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on March 22, 2020, 09:14:37 PM
i don't see why we're citing the games as evidence for this given the first two seasons of the show have considerably different world rules for this kinda thing

Oh come on man... This concept has not been touched on in the show before this.  There were no rules set up for it. Until we saw a demon monster using holy magic, people say that makes no sense, we say that's right out of the games...  Acting like this has no bearing because the show is different is just... Stupid.  That's like saying "how come he's using a whip?". And lambasting when someone says it's because they did in the games.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 23, 2020, 12:46:00 AM
short version:

"your differing opinion is stupid"

good talk

long version:

Quote
This concept has not been touched on in the show before this.  There were no rules set up for it.

-whip kills night creatures, explicitly stated to be denizens of hell which in this universe is an actual place, because it's consecrated and not because it has a soul tainted with vampirism willingly giving it the power to harm demonic entities like it is in the games

-holy water also harms night creatures for the same premise of reason

using the collaborative information of the above, it can be very reasonably inferred with considerable confidence that items or substances consecrated or blessed by some source of faith in a holy and divine manner, in the case of the show this applies to at LEAST christianity

as the show never outright confirms or denies the existence of the abrahamic god or the christian satan (or any deity really), but does confirm the existence of hell (which could very well simply be an underworld of the demonic races, but given its strong similarities to dante's hell in S3 i'm on the fence on this one), it can also be reasonably assumed that clearly some form of "divine" power does exist but may simply be powered by faith or belief and this is what does the job

so we have multiple cases of items outright confirmed to be blessed in some fashion with some form of holy power which harms and repels anything unholy or demonic, this is what i'll call Point 1

now fast forward to the S1 bishop

we see him tell bluefangs that demons cannot enter a house of god

now, obviously the bishop was an evil bastard who cannot be trusted to be a man of true belief and he shouldn't entirely take him at his word, but the immediacy with which he refers to this suggests that the very idea of unholy creatures entering a church is something unheard-of -- presumably because, like the above instances, a church is consecrated ground and would kill demons just as well as a blessed whip

bluefangs also seems to confirm this premise by responding that said church is "an empty box"

now obviously he could just as easily be mocking the bishop and i think largely this is what he's doing, but with all the above information i also choose to believe there's a small ring of truth to the statement, in that yes, in a non-horrifyingly-corrupt setting a demon entering a "true" church's grounds would be cause for pain and/or death but the absence of any god in that particular church (due to the actions of the bishop "making [god] puke" causing any former holiness of the site to dry up like a well in the desert) eliminates this risk

the above is very much a bit of a stretch and i'm relying on it because it just happens to enforce my interpretation, but i also do willingly concede it's just as likely to be true that bluefangs was simply mocking the bishop's empty words

the above about the "no demons in church" clause of reality is Point 2

under the previous inferences and assumptions (which i'd like to reiterate aren't entirely unreasonable or ill-founded, but i'm also not claiming them as the sole interpretation either), we have established "world rules" for the following, with varying degrees of how "set" they are within the world:

-objects can be blessed/consecrated with holy power which can cause significant harm to any force of dark or demonic alignment
-some form of underworld exists as a literal plane of reality, regardless of whether or not it's literally the christian hell or is simply called that
-all night creatures are, in essence, demonic creatures/souls that come from that underworld
-there exists some form of opposing force of divine or holy power, regardless of whether or not it's literally the abrahamic god or is simply called that
-demonic entities cannot be in the direct presence of any object or place which has such consecration or blessing without risking harm to themselves
-the lack of any concrete confirmation or denial of the existences of any god or satan figures suggests these forces may simply be freefloating and the act of genuine belief in blessing is what gives things their power, but once they're imbued with it they may not necessarily be bound to being USED solely by those of belief (as trevor's not exactly a godly man, but can still use the whips just fine), unless something occurs which robs them of that power (see: bluefangs in church)

now, onto the bishop zombie blessing the river

let's look at the bishop

prior to death and reanimation:

-false prophet, cares only about furthering his own power and ambitions

-doesn't give two shits about anyone but himself and will step on anyone he feels necessary to achieve the above

-cannot be considered a "true" man of faith as his motivations are selfish and his priestly exterior just a facade

-"believes" certain things of his faith system, but only insofar as to whether they directly benefit him (see examples below)
+++++doesn't "believe" demons can enter a church until he himself is hiding in one alone, fuck everyone else outside
+++++puts on airs of being a genuine man of the cloth, until he's alone and needs to monologue or until someone (trevor) calls him out on his bullshit
+++++had an innocent executed because she threatened his position, but only justified it as "god's will, she's a witch" when in the presence of others

-every word that quotes, refers to, or deals with any aspect of his faith, the god he claims, or scripture is entirely lip service and empty words which lack any of the belief necessary to actually have any power (unrelated reference, gabula out-praying the paladin in lords of shit 2's epic rap battle is actually a good example of this principle, if anyone needs a reference of what i mean illustrated more easily than my wordiness probably is)

after death and reanimation:

-bishop is now an unholy night creature in being resurrected as a zombie
-as a night creature, he is now subject to all of the world rules i've explained and they actually get this mostly right as the blessed river also burns him

now this is where the fucking problem is

you have, first and FOREmost, a zombie saying a prayer of consecration and blessing an entire river into a metric fuckload of monster-b-gone juice

beyond that, you have the bigger issue: a zombie made from a man who was a false prophet in every sense of the word, had no true belief or faith in any god but his own avarice, regularly spread falsehoods and lies and plenty of empty words citing scripture and god and holiness he never meant to further his own political position and power over the peasant class...and this is the zombie that is successfully consecrating holy water

this, to me, is a massive issue because it's more or less saying one of two thing:

-either the bishop actually did in the deepest cockles of his black little heart believe in god and somehow had enough embers of real faith to make the shit happen
-faith doesn't actually fucking matter and anyone who knows the right words and can say them in the right order can perform what wouldn't be unfair to call miracles

and neither one of these makes any goddamn sense considering all the other instances of this subject matter in the show that contradict both outcomes

if knowing the words is all that matters, then why the fuck aren't the heroes just learning and consecrating literally everything down to a shitload of pebbles that you can just toss at a demon and instantly kill it? i'm sure if it were that easy they'd have found something about it in the belmont library and the importance of the whips being consecrated wouldn't matter as much

if the bishop DOES still somehow have enough real faith left in his now-demonic shambling corpse to pull off a literal miracle, then what was the purpose of going WELL above and beyond to pound "the church is bad, and this guy is just everything bad about it (barring the pedo shit, we had to wait another two seasons for that, ugh) wrapped up in one package LOOK GUYS HE'S A PRIEST AND HE'S FUCKING EVIL AS SHIT" into our heads the entire first season

so since neither "explanation" makes any sense lined up against other instances of same/similar material extrapolated in the show, the idea of a zombie of a bishop who was about the most faithless son of a bitch you could hope to meet successfully managing to turn an ENTIRE RIVER into holy water on demand really strikes me as a noticeable moment of "hold up a second" in the series amidst the MANY others

(personally i think they just really wanted to upsell that "yeah, carmilla can do THINGS and she's MILDLY competent and formulates BRILLIANT plans using logic a grade-schooler could come up with" aspect and didn't put much thought into how they did it and thought the bishop being zombified would be a cool gatcha moment, but that's just me)

so yeah, taking all the above into consideration, which i think even if you don't agree with whether or not my points really count as "rules" for the world there's enough there to at least be cause for further discussion, and considering all of the above explicitly uses material from the show to draw connections and contradictions from, you can hopefully see why "well the games did it that way" didn't exactly strike me as much more than a handwave that contributed practically nothing and addressed no elements of what i was talking about

Quote
Until we saw a demon monster using holy magic, people say that makes no sense, we say that's right out of the games...  Acting like this has no bearing because the show is different is just... Stupid.  That's like saying "how come he's using a whip?". And lambasting when someone says it's because they did in the games.

so as you'll now clearly be able to tell, i actually have fucking reasons and entire breakdowns that form the bases for opinions i have, and i'm not just making shit up on the fly or not having any kind of rationale for what i think

i might have been able to explain all this thought process much sooner if i hadn't immediately had my shit jumped, but i'll just assume you've read all that business and know at least up until now why i'd not been making lengthy breakdown posts like this for things

is a lot of my speculation probably reading too far into a script that only barely approaches such levels of depth at its best? most likely, but as cronq put it very well just a few posts ago -- i find it fun, and it's kind of the point of threads and discussions like this

hell, i don't even care whether or not anyone even AGREES with this whole big thought process, that's y'all's right to decide yourselves, but to fucking sit there and call something i've said stupid on the faulty-at-best assumption that i'm just being contrarian for the sake of it or whatever you thought?

that, to me, seems a hell of a lot more stupid, right up there with the idea that if something isn't plainly and directly stated verbatim then it obviously cannot exist or have potential narrative elements suggesting the larger premise without needing to hand it to audiences on a plate (not that i'm saying warren is necessarily doing this with CV, mind you, but you jumped pretty fucking immediately to putting words in my mouth (eRmAhGeRd WhY bELmOnt UsE wHiP) under this very premise)

now on a significantly more pleasant note:

MariaXStriga&Morana

yes

MariaXLenore

a shitload more yes
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: crisis on March 27, 2020, 08:34:21 AM
Reading that last page was like sludging through Curse of Darkness all over again
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on March 27, 2020, 08:52:08 AM
Reading that last page was like sludging through Curse of Darkness all over again

Dracula9 has that effect on threads.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Holy Diver on March 27, 2020, 12:01:15 PM
we see him tell bluefangs that demons cannot enter a house of god

now, obviously the bishop was an evil bastard who cannot be trusted to be a man of true belief and he shouldn't entirely take him at his word, but the immediacy with which he refers to this suggests that the very idea of unholy creatures entering a church is something unheard-of -- presumably because, like the above instances, a church is consecrated ground and would kill demons just as well as a blessed whip

bluefangs also seems to confirm this premise by responding that said church is "an empty box"

now obviously he could just as easily be mocking the bishop and i think largely this is what he's doing, but with all the above information i also choose to believe there's a small ring of truth to the statement, in that yes, in a non-horrifyingly-corrupt setting a demon entering a "true" church's grounds would be cause for pain and/or death but the absence of any god in that particular church (due to the actions of the bishop "making [god] puke" causing any former holiness of the site to dry up like a well in the desert) eliminates this risk

the above is very much a bit of a stretch and i'm relying on it because it just happens to enforce my interpretation, but i also do willingly concede it's just as likely to be true that bluefangs was simply mocking the bishop's empty words
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Reinhart77 on March 27, 2020, 12:15:45 PM
Season 4 has been confirmed, wouldn’t expect it to come any time soon though.  At least we’ve got 22 episodes of Castlevania goodness to rewatch as many times as we feel until then. 

https://www.ign.com/articles/netflix-castlevania-season-4-confirmed-renewed (https://www.ign.com/articles/netflix-castlevania-season-4-confirmed-renewed)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on March 27, 2020, 01:29:41 PM
Season 4 has been confirmed

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Chernabogue on March 27, 2020, 01:32:19 PM
Happy about the announcement. Season 3 had its ups and downs but mostly felt like it was preparing for something more. I hope they don't make too many seasons and that season 4 can bring a satisfying conclusion to the series. Hoping for more CoD elements!
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 27, 2020, 01:52:03 PM
Will I think the show could be much better and there are many things wrong with it, I do think a Season 4 is a good idea. It's flawed, but not bad. However, Season 4 should be the last. Dragging things out too long is the death of every piece of medium.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 27, 2020, 03:21:22 PM
Sorry but how is this being dragged out too far?  When so far only one of the Belmonts has been been covered so far?  World building and taking its time to unfurl a story and something going on past it’s time are different things.  Yes the series isn’t without flaws including on pacing, but this series has much more story to tell.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 27, 2020, 03:54:02 PM
That’s weird....  season one has vanished off Netflix... at least in the UK....
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on March 27, 2020, 06:07:30 PM
Will I think the show could be much better and there are many things wrong with it, I do think a Season 4 is a good idea. It's flawed, but not bad. However, Season 4 should be the last. Dragging things out too long is the death piece of medium.

I could go as many as five seasons if they devote enough runtime in S4 to Hector escaping his imprisonment, meeting Rosalie, and falling in love before Isaac finds them. Finish season 4 off with her murder, and make Season 5 into a sort of broad-strokes adaptation of Curse of Darkness with Trevor and Sypha in a diminished role and with Hector as the lead.

This is the hill I will die on.

I want Hector turned into the badass he was in the Iga timeline and there's still room to do this thing.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 27, 2020, 07:09:02 PM
Sorry but how is this being dragged out too far?  When so far only one of the Belmonts has been been covered so far?  World building and taking its time to unfurl a story and something going on past it’s time are different things.  Yes the series isn’t without flaws including on pacing, but this series has much more story to tell.

It's not too much yet. But given the track record of pretty much every piece of media released these days, it easily could go in that direction. If Star Wars has taught us anything, it's that things go *very* bad, if they go on for too long.

I could go as many as five seasons if they devote enough runtime in S4 to Hector escaping his imprisonment, meeting Rosalie, and falling in love before Isaac finds them. Finish season 4 off with her murder, and make Season 5 into a sort of broad-strokes adaptation of Curse of Darkness with Trevor and Sypha in a diminished role and with Hector as the lead.

This is the hill I will die on.

I want Hector turned into the badass he was in the Iga timeline and there's still room to do this thing.

I could see that happenening. That would be nice, though if they actually go there is another matter entirely. I still hope the plans for a kind of Bootleg-Universe will never come to pass, because that would likely mess up any kind of future content following the Castlevania canon even remotely.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 27, 2020, 07:14:58 PM
Not necessarily.  It depends on how it’s handled.  If it’s a connection via the Infinite Corridor, for example, the two series could easily stay separate but connected in a multiverse manner.  You’re honestly coming across as let’s cancel this all now in case it goes bad, wah wah wah everything goes bad.  You’re coming across overly pessimistic and a bit of a stick in the mud.  Yes, this isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.  But it is for plenty of others.  But just because some people don’t like it doesn’t mean it has to be cancelled.  If you don’t like it, then don’t watch it.  It’s that simple.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: DraculaCronqvist on March 27, 2020, 07:31:41 PM
Not necessarily.  It depends on how it’s handled.  If it’s a connection via the Infinite Corridor, for example, the two series could easily stay separate but connected in a multiverse manner.  You’re honestly coming across as let’s cancel this all now in case it goes bad, wah wah wah everything goes bad.  You’re coming across overly pessimistic and a bit of a stick in the mud.  Yes, this isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.  But it is for plenty of others.  But just because some people don’t like it doesn’t mean it has to be cancelled.  If you don’t like it, then don’t watch it.  It’s that simple.

It seems you completely missed the part in which I said that I want the series to continue and that I like it, despite it's flaws. All I'm saying is that it shouldn't continue for like seven more seasons. It doesn't even have to be "just" one more season and I never said anything about it needing to be cancelled now before it turns bad. I'd thank you for not putting words in my mouth.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 27, 2020, 09:06:00 PM
Well it’s how you’re certainly coming across.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Dracula9 on March 27, 2020, 09:35:23 PM
Dracula9 has that effect on threads.

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/iDJuQR0UmiqOI/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 27, 2020, 11:03:22 PM
(click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdAgM1RUAAA2hGh.jpg)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on March 28, 2020, 02:17:26 AM
Jesus Archibald Reginald Hubert Christ are we ever gonna be even slightly mature adults on this board or what?

Honestly, whatever my actual misgivings about the series, the divisions it's exposed within the fandom is easily ten times worse than anything in the series proper. You guys are turning into Hot Topic Rick and Morty fans, and while it's not just you guys (it's all over the fandom), this is where I have an account and it's been my digital home away from home for years now. This sort of childish bickering is the number one reason I tend not to come by as often, and it's why when I do I tend not to bother trying to actually discuss anything because it's just gonna get swamped in meaningless drama.

Honestly, can both sides of the animated series audience just... temper their reactions to each other? We're already basically locked in our houses -- nobody needs this place to become a pressure cooker too.

Feel free to disagree over whether the series is good or bad. I really don't care whether you guys agree on that or not, but please don't act like you're all twelve.

I've watched the Star Wars and Doctor Who fandoms implode over childish mudslinging in recent years and goddammit if I'm gonna watch the Castlevania fandom do the same without speaking up.

For the love of god, please stop taking this thread down rabbit trails of your opinions of each other.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on March 28, 2020, 08:39:06 AM
I agree with what you're saying but I don't think there was any pro/anti-show-bickering going on the last page. I got the impression that Dracula9 liked the show and DraculaCronqvist outright said he wants the series to continue. So whatever caused the arguments on the previous page to become heated had different underlying causes.

As for me, I was just venting, which I think is something that should be allowed in a thread like this as long as it isn't done constantly. Some people (like Crisis) are clearly cool with me riffing on the show, despite them liking it. Unfortunately, others seem to take posts like that personally and seem to have the urge to react to it in order to validate their own opinion. While I agree with your appeal for more civil discussion, I don't think that should be achieved by preventing people from saying anything controversial. Also, I don't agree with the sentiment of: "If you don't have anything positive to say, don't say anything at all". I get that it's annoying if someone is constantly criticizing something that you really like, but it's equally annoying being denied the opportunity to vent by criticizing something related to a subject you're passionate about.

What I think needs to be done to "untoxify" this thread is the following:

1) Leave room for people to express their opinion on the show without feeling the need to shout them down. If people either want to praise the show or want to vent, let them.

2) Just cut it out with the ad hominems in general, whether you're disagreeing about the quality of the show or something else *looks at both Dracula9 and AlexCalvo*

I think these two things are evoking that sense of childishness in this thread to which Lumi Kløvstad was alluding to. So from now, I'm going to make sure the above two things will no longer occur in this thread. Aside from that, you're completely free to speak your mind.

Now go discuss whetever Grant will appear in season 4 or if they're totally saving him for season 5 +.   
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 28, 2020, 09:59:31 AM
Tbh the reason I snapped somewhat, which I do apologise for, I admit is because I’ve been so fed up of the general bickering attitudes of people on here lately.  It’s worn my patience down.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: AlexCalvo on March 28, 2020, 10:35:07 AM
I agree with what you're saying but I don't think there was any pro/anti-show-bickering going on the last page. I got the impression that Dracula9 liked the show and DraculaCronqvist outright said he wants the series to continue. So whatever caused the arguments on the previous page to become heated had different underlying causes.

As for me, I was just venting, which I think is something that should be allowed in a thread like this as long as it isn't done constantly. Some people (like Crisis) are clearly cool with me riffing on the show, despite them liking it. Unfortunately, others seem to take posts like that personally and seem to have the urge to react to it in order to validate their own opinion. While I agree with your appeal for more civil discussion, I don't think that should be achieved by preventing people from saying anything controversial. Also, I don't agree with the sentiment of: "If you don't have anything positive to say, don't say anything at all". I get that it's annoying if someone is constantly criticizing something that you really like, but it's equally annoying being denied the opportunity to vent by criticizing something related to a subject you're passionate about.

What I think needs to be done to "untoxify" this thread is the following:

1) Leave room for people to express their opinion on the show without feeling the need to shout them down. If people either want to praise the show or want to vent, let them.

2) Just cut it out with the ad hominems in general, whether you're disagreeing about the quality of the show or something else *looks at both Dracula9 and AlexCalvo*

I think these two things are evoking that sense of childishness in this thread to which Lumi Kløvstad was alluding to. So from now, I'm going to make sure the above two things will no longer occur in this thread. Aside from that, you're completely free to speak your mind.

Now go discuss whetever Grant will appear in season 4 or if they're totally saving him for season 5 +.   

How the hell am I ad hominem attacking anyone?  All of my discussion on this show has been based on the show itself and the games.  My little Barb against the dude was not in anyway related to his stance on the show, just his toxic tendance to try and take over/derail topics.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Nagumo on March 28, 2020, 11:00:07 AM
How the hell am I ad hominem attacking anyone?  All of my discussion on this show has been based on the show itself and the games.  My little Barb against the dude was not in anyway related to his stance on the show, just his toxic tendance to try and take over/derail topics.

First, I never said you attacked Dracula9 for his stance on the show. Secondly, I get you might be frustrated but that comment you made on the previous page only causes further provocation, it doesn't solve anything (I'm sure you didn't except Dracula9 to just ignore your message). I'll make sure these derailments won't happen from now but if you get annoyed with anyone, just prevent yourself from writing something provocative and message one of the mods and I promise we'll take care of it.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: X on March 28, 2020, 11:34:05 AM
What probably would help is if people here are going to vent then they should announce it before starting. That would help to clarify things and leave a lot less room for misinterpretation.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on March 28, 2020, 12:28:33 PM
What probably would help is if people here are going to vent then they should announce it before starting. That would help to clarify things and leave a lot less room for misinterpretation.

A dedicated thread for it might also do the trick.
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Flame on March 28, 2020, 05:29:40 PM
I'm a bit late to the revived discussion about the Zombie bishop issue- I take issue with it because I dont really feel an undead creature which is kind of a darkness thing, and barely seemed sentient to boot- could consecrate holy water. I remember while watching it, thinking that because he was a zombie and therefore an unholy creature, what he was doing was going to have the opposite effect. So he still has muscle memory they can order him to consecrate the water, but as an undead creature, it would create i dunno, unholy water. So i was a bit disappointed when it ended up just being holy water. But on top of that he DOES combust once he starts doing that, which further drives that home for me.

That said, there's also a pretty good irony to it, in that the Bishop, a corrupt *very much* "far-from-holy" man, was arguably more effective against creatures of the night as an undead zombie than when he was an actual living human.

EDIT:
also you guys need to just chill.

Stop gettin' mad at video games. (or cartoons, in this case)
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: SecretWeapon on March 28, 2020, 11:59:50 PM
Oh there is nothing i love more than expressing my opinion. Don't worry i will do just that
(https://media.giphy.com/media/SJWsSE70Z3jsA9pJDf/giphy.gif)
I'm a bit late to the revived discussion about the Zombie bishop issue- I take issue with it because I dont really feel an undead creature which is kind of a darkness thing, and barely seemed sentient to boot- could consecrate holy water. I remember while watching it, thinking that because he was a zombie and therefore an unholy creature, what he was doing was going to have the opposite effect. So he still has muscle memory they can order him to consecrate the water, but as an undead creature, it would create i dunno, unholy water. So i was a bit disappointed when it ended up just being holy water. But on top of that he DOES combust once he starts doing that, which further drives that home for me.

That said, there's also a pretty good irony to it, in that the Bishop, a corrupt *very much* "far-from-holy" man, was arguably more effective against creatures of the night as an undead zombie than when he was an actual living human.

EDIT:
also you guys need to just chill.

Stop gettin' mad at video games. (or cartoons, in this case)

Thats why i took the God's plan interpretation. It solves the issue nicely
Title: Re: Castlevania Season 3
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on March 31, 2020, 06:49:27 AM
I mean, there are holy-elemental demonic enemies in Castlevania.
And I always thought zombies were more of a non-elemental entity.  They are shambling corpses but they aren't particularly driven by anything but hunger.