Topic: Comparing the Lords of Shadow saga

[Intersection]

Notice any similarities or differences in gameplay across the Lords of Shadow saga? Here's where you should post. What abilities were added, removed, or changed in subsequent games, and how did that affect the overall experience? Did the combat or battle systems feel faster-paced, more satisfying, or more varied in a particular game? I'd like to hear your opinions.

To clarify, this isn't a thread to discuss how good or bad the LoS titles were; I'm not interested in hearing "this game's story was good/this system was terrible/this game looked prettier/this game was too linear". It might be true, but we've already done it to death elsewhere, and it's not really the point of this topic. I'm expecting something more in the spirit of "this has changed from one game to another, and here's how it affects gameplay". In other words, be more analytical, and less judgmental.

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I'll start this off by listing a few things I've noticed, and that I want confirmed:

- Sync blocks are far easier to pull off in LoS2 than in LoS1. LoS1 enemy attacks are generally quicker and less predictable; sync-blocking sometimes require you to hit block before the attack frames even start, which means that block-or-dodge decisions need to be planned; LoS2 attacks are more often telegraphed, and offer more time for reaction; you can sync an attack last-minute even if you weren't paying that much attention to the attacker ==> 1 relies on action, 2 on reaction.

- The 'magic per neutral/blood orb' and the "HP per magic" ratios are much greater in 2 than in 1. Magic also drains far more quickly in 1 than in 2. Makes 2 far more forgiving than 1.

- Summon ability: demon in 1 - 3 pieces, dragon in 2 - 4 pieces. As far as I'm concerned, dragon medallion pieces were harder to find, so 2's summon felt more like a one-time use item than 1's.

Subweapons:
1 has knives, fairies, and holy water -- they're fairly useful, but their limited number and situation-specificity don't let them become mainstay weapons. The light/shadow magic combos are pretty nifty, though. 2 has knives and bat swarm, which are unlimited as long as you let them recharge; it makes them more readily available and easier to use, but using the camera to aim is awfully awkward. Still, the bomb/projection combo and the freezing mechanic worked well. Then there's mist, but in combat it's only a defensive ability with heavily reduced mobility. It also made dodging a bit too easy for my taste. There are also 2's relics: full+ health potion, unlimited magic, unlock all abilities, stopwatch, find secrets. The first two are game-breaking, and the third has little use, especially near the end of the game. It's a feature that LoS2 could easily have gone without.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I appreciated the Dodo Egg. 

[KaZudra]

Grabbing in LoS1 was functional, with 2 grabs per enemy.

Grabbing in LoS2 is worthless, Killing without grab will grant enough Red orbs to heal more with void sword.

[Somacula]

Grabbing in LoS1 was functional, with 2 grabs per enemy.

Grabbing in LoS2 is worthless, Killing without grab will grant enough Red orbs to heal more with void sword.

Very much, this. In LoS1, grabbing was something that added to the flow of combat. I could grab smaller enemies at a great distance with the hook tip attachment, and could whittle out numbers that way at any given point. I enjoyed grabbing the goblins for their grenades, and then chucking them at other goblins. Having the grab that let Gabriel pull himself in with larger enemies was also very fun while still remaining functional. In LoS2, the grabs became nothing more than glorified finishers which quickly lost their value after a few attempts.

The combat in LoS1 in general felt a lot more connected. Each relic had its own set of combos that lent to the overall experience. The Seraph Shoulders for example would have the additional feature of sending enemies flying with Airwave Flap while the Dark Gauntlet combined with the Cyclone Boots and Shadow Magic would make a great counter-attack with the Flame Claws attack. In LoS2, the relics were each divided by their own extremely similar movesets with nothing to really set them apart except for range and damage. I would have preferred an attack that blended the Void and Chaos weapons since it was abundantly clear that they were separate weapons on their own. Could Dracul not have activated the Void Sword while the Chaos Claws were active in order to strengthen his slices? Could he not have created a whirlwind of fire and ice by combining the two relics? Could he not have emulated different move sets like in the first one where Light and Shadow magic at least had more functions than healing and dealing extra damage?

Back to the matter of grabs. Mirror of Fate had Dracul lifting Alucard and Simon up into the air using his Shadow Whip, so I wonder why he could not have done the same in LoS2. Having to wait until enemies were glowing seriously broke the flow in combat for me, especially in heavily crowded areas.

[Flame]

Anyone else feel that the Synch block counter attacks in loS2 just don't work?

in LoS1 the counter was pretty fluid. The moment you perfect blocked, you could smoothly go into a counter move which would hitstun the enemy with unique animations of I recall.

in LoS2, despite Counters being smoother, it feels like you can't actually immediately counter. and when you do, it isn't nearly as satisfying as LoS1. It feels no different from blocking and using regular attacks right after. In fact that feels exactly like what happens. in LoS1 they had more beef to them too IIRC

[KaZudra]

Anyone else feel that the Synch block counter attacks in loS2 just don't work?

in LoS1 the counter was pretty fluid. The moment you perfect blocked, you could smoothly go into a counter move which would hitstun the enemy with unique animations of I recall.

in LoS2, despite Counters being smoother, it feels like you can't actually immediately counter. and when you do, it isn't nearly as satisfying as LoS1. It feels no different from blocking and using regular attacks right after. In fact that feels exactly like what happens. in LoS1 they had more beef to them too IIRC

Oh yeah, I didn't like how a Perfect Guard Combo could be easily broken if another enemy hits you at a small delay

[Shinobi]

Replacing commands with gamepad controller even if you are using a keyboard in QTEs and you have to push F1 button to see the keyboard equivalent commands on LOS2 PC version compare to LOS1 Ultimate Edition, I'm still bad at memorizing commands Goddamit! I know you can disable QTEs but that lessens the challenge and fun of the game.

[Flame]

I found that turning the difficulty up a notch helped mitigate the lack of QTE's somewhat.

[Chernabogue]

I found that turning the difficulty up a notch helped mitigate the lack of QTE's somewhat.

Playing LoS2 on higher difficulties is a real pleasure.

[Intersection]

Replacing commands with gamepad controller even if you are using a keyboard in QTEs and you have to push F1 button to see the keyboard equivalent commands on LOS2 PC version compare to LOS1 Ultimate Edition, I'm still bad at memorizing commands Goddamit! I know you can disable QTEs but that lessens the challenge and fun of the game.

I never understood why MS used console prompts for LoS2's PC version: both LoS-Ultimate and MoF-HD had keyboard prompts for the PC, so it was hardly a new feature. I've lost count of how many QTE's I've failed because I ended up mashing the wrong button -- early bosses that were beatable in a matter of minutes took hours because I could never get the prompts right.

There's an option to disable QTE's, of course, but removing some of them actually hurt the way the game played. I'm probably one of the few people who didn't find the circle prompts to be too obtrusive: they were fairly easy to spot, and just about any button pressed would trigger them. They also added some dynamism to finishers, which was a fairly good thing. Disabling them made the QTE mini-cutscenes feel empty and unnecessarily drawn-out.
Though I could never swallow the button-mashing prompts. They never achieve anything past the cramped hands and destroyed keyboard you're left with after playing. They're button-specific, difficult to spot, and come with a ridiculously short reaction time, which makes them incredibly frustrating to deal with, especially on PC. I've spent more time raging at failed do-or-die mashes than I'd care to remember.

[Shinobi]

Strangely, I've never ever missed any single QTE while killing Carmilla in LOS1 even for the first time, guess my senses was good on that time.

[X]

With all that's not well-liked about LoS2's engine you'd think MS would just use the original LoS engine. It would have saved them development time too so that they could have fleshed out the characters' stories some more.

[Flame]

the engine isn't so much the problem, I'm pretty sure the engine is just fine, it's just certain particulars about it in combat that are wonky, but overall it is better, and much smoother.

Also no framedrops. (just on PC though, i dont know how the console versions fared there)

[Intersection]

LoS2's framerate was flawless, even on higher settings; and taking into account the capabilities of my middle-range PC, that's pretty impressive. To put in perspective, LoS-Ultimate was dropping frames as soon as environments got more taxing, and MoF-HD was stuttering the entire way through. So as far as I'm concerned, the engine switch was a good decision.