Topic: The Belmont Glove

[Belmontoya]

This is just a random thought.

I was thinking about the vampire killer and the limitations it has for non Belmonts and even potential danger.

I was thinking a clever way around this could be a magic glove made with the hand bones of a Belmont like Richter.

Perhaps a glove(s) like this could make the full potential of the vampire killer accessible to a non Belmont.

If anyone has any thoughts or ideas on how the glove(s) could look I would love to hear and see it!

[theplottwist]

Leon Belmont's Gauntlet. 'Nuff said. The only "Belmont Gauntlet" that was given enough plot relevance to actually exist as something of an artifact.

Even Order of Shadows played a little bit with its importance.

[Belmontoya]

Oh yeah yeah yeah.

That rings a bell. Guess I forgot about that.

[Belmontoya]

The Leon Belmont gauntlet doesn't really do what I'm describing though...

[theplottwist]

Well, I tend to go with a logic based on the Occam's Razor - use as few invented elements as possible to explain something in a story.

If I were to insert a glove that allows for a non-Belmont to wield the whip with no consequence, I'd look in the canon for an already existing armpiece with some plot relevance.

Once I found it, I'd use other steps (As few as possible) to explain how could the glove allow for that.

Leon's Gauntlet is inbued with alchemy - the same science behind the whip's creation. It was used for great effect by Leon, thus one could argue that the glove could ahve a memory/essence/piece of him contained within it.

[X]

Leon's Gauntlet was a terrible design. The hand part was fine, but once you get towards the end of Leon's arm it spreads out into a horn-like shape that can easily interfere with Leon's movements. It doesn't happen in-game of course but in reality such a design flaw would spell your end very quickly. I would avoid using it personally. It's also not very attractive-looking either. But that's just my opinion on it.

[Belmontoya]

Yeah. I loved LOI but when I was thinking of this item it didn't come to mind. I guess that was because it's never been used in this way, or implied that it can be.

I love the idea of a Belmonts grave being dug up and his bones being used to create a powerful item like this.

You can't exactly look in the cannon for something that isn't there and grab an item that's worn in a similar area of the body, but serves a completely different purpose to diffuse the concept.

I have no story ideas around this. I'm just having fun thinking about it.
 

[Belmontoya]

But to be clear, a gauntlet is very different from a glove. The gauntlet ends at the wrist. I'm talking about a glove with the bones of a belmonts hand infused into it so it is essentially a belmonts hand wrapping around the handle of the whip with the non Belmont protagonist wielding it. It's gross in a delightlfully horrofic way.

So yeah, the gauntlet wouldn't work for a variety of reasons.

[theplottwist]

You can't exactly look in the cannon for something that isn't there and grab an item that's worn in a similar area of the body, but serves a completely different purpose to diffuse the concept.

Yeah, but is the whip's function to create memories of the previous Belmont to wield it? No. It's function is to kill monsters. YET it JUST HAPPENS to save a memory of the last Belmont to wield it - an artificial plot mechanism invented for the sole purpose of creating a conflict for Jonathan Morris.

See, if you restrain yourself to what you see an object do in an invented story without considering the ramification possibilities for said function demonstrated by this object, then you'll have a much harder time making the story believable. You'll be creating new variables to explain every little detail, undermining the suspension of disbelief a reader has placed on the storytelling.

Existing variables bring a feeling of familiarity and trust, whereas new variables require more effort to built this trust. Creating variables is useful, of course, and a valuable part of writting, but they require such an enormous leg work to make believable that it sometimes is not worth the effort.

For instance: I have a really hard time believing someone would dessecrate the remains of a dead Belmont just to make an apparatus to wield a whip that has a magical lock in it. Sure, it's for a good reason, but the dessecration part is what irks me.

Now, not only you have to explain the dessecration, but now you have to explain how the remains of a dead Belmont are enough to wield the whip (who, I must add, remembers said Belmont alive and at the peak of their strength), but an alive person with partial blood ties to them is not. You also have to explain how did the heroes reach the conclusion that the Belmont remains would be enough to wield the whip. You have to explain, too, how was the gauntlet built. Etc etc

But of course, this is just personal preference. So take this all with a grain of salt. And I KNOW this is merely a thought experiment you proposed. My response is only about your statement of "You can't exactly look in the cannon for something that isn't there and grab an item that's worn in a similar area of the body, but serves a completely different purpose to diffuse the concept.". This is exactly what was done with the Vampire Killer.

For the thought experiment purposes, the idea of using something made of "Belmont" is interesting. If I could imagine a design for it, I think it'd look cool to have a skeletal hand on top of the hand part of the glove.

Leon's Gauntlet was a terrible design. The hand part was fine, but once you get towards the end of Leon's arm it spreads out into a horn-like shape that can easily interfere with Leon's movements. It doesn't happen in-game of course but in reality such a design flaw would spell your end very quickly. I would avoid using it personally. It's also not very attractive-looking either. But that's just my opinion on it.

And I agree with this. That gauntlet was ugly as hell.

Something like Onimusha's Oni Gauntlet would be way cooler.

[coinilius]

The desecration angle is icky but it is also meant to be - this is a game series with horror tones, even if they are more 'Halloween' horror than hard-core horror.  Also holy relics, both 'real' and fake, are actual things which have existed throughout history - someone using Belmont remains as holy items doesn't seem that far fetched, especially if they were created sometime during the medieval period.

I also kind of imagine that in an actual game, the item would simply be encounters as an item - you pick it up and get a bit of a description of what it does and how it works 'sacred relic created using the hand bones of a powerful Belmont warrior.  This glove allows the wearer to unlock the power of the Vampire Killer whip'.

Alternatively there is the period where other organisations were trying to find ways to combat Dracula (before OoE) - it is not outside the realms of possibility for such an organisation to start digging up Belmonts to try and use their remains as holy weapons.

That being said, I really liked the return appearance of Leon's gauntlet in OoS's and wouldn't mind seeing that particular item returned... But in this particular case, their are other factors built into the initial concept posted that are fascinating and worth being drawn out, that can't be done as well with the gauntlet.  And yes, the desecration and using holy remains to make a weapon is part of that.

[zangetsu468]

Yeah, but is the whip's function to create memories of the previous Belmont to wield it? No. It's function is to kill monsters. YET it JUST HAPPENS to save a memory of the last Belmont to wield it - an artificial plot mechanism invented for the sole purpose of creating a conflict for Jonathan Morris.

That and the canon being that Jonathan like his father had to unlock the VK's full power by both by facing the VK's memory, in order to defeat Dracula. (One could make this assertion based on the other blood-Belmonts having used the VK's full power, but didn't require a ritual to unlock it.)

Although it is a plot device, we have been previously shown that in LOI, POR and somewhat in the Sorrow titles, the VK has some form of sentience. So although the plot device is privy to POR, there was simply never a requirment for it before (aside from Bloodlines which it fits into.) Imo it's more adding something to the existing canon, which doesn't retract another part of it but I digress.

I see where you're going with this, take an existing artifact and add the reasons later, it makes sense.

For the thought experiment purposes, the idea of using something made of "Belmont" is interesting. If I could imagine a design for it, I think it'd look cool to have a skeletal hand on top of the hand part of the glove.

What about a hollowed out skeletal glove which the wearer sticks their hand into. The Glove's hand could be made from hide, but wrapped in the bones which literally coat the outside of the glove.

There is one thing though, when the VK recognises its user, I assumed it would recognise either:
- The user's spirit/ soul
- The user's blood/ bloodline

So I ask myself, does wrapping a dead Belmont hand around it subvert what the VK assesses about its wielder? Probably not if that arm is dead bone. However, if it was alchemicaly/ magically imbued with the spirit (or part thereof) of the original Belmont who used it then it could definitely work.

The desecration angle is icky but it is also meant to be - this is a game series with horror tones, even if they are more 'Halloween' horror than hard-core horror.  Also holy relics, both 'real' and fake, are actual things which have existed throughout history - someone using Belmont remains as holy items doesn't seem that far fetched, especially if they were created sometime during the medieval period.

To be honest, as soon as "Bone-Glove" and desecration was mentioned, it made me think of MoF and I'm not certain why.   
Probably because the remains of dead soldiers are found everywhere in the LOS series and it was the last LOS game I played.

Alternatively there is the period where other organisations were trying to find ways to combat Dracula (before OoE) - it is not outside the realms of possibility for such an organisation to start digging up Belmonts to try and use their remains as holy weapons.

I wonder if Julius has a successor who is not of Blood descent, and hypothetically the VK recognises the Belmont's bloodline, in this day and age surely a blood transfusion(s) or the like could remedy this for the successor. One must wonder.

That being said, I really liked the return appearance of Leon's gauntlet in OoS's and wouldn't mind seeing that particular item returned... But in this particular case, their are other factors built into the initial concept posted that are fascinating and worth being drawn out, that can't be done as well with the gauntlet.  And yes, the desecration and using holy remains to make a weapon is part of that.

In the context of Leon's gauntlet, it absorbs and uses magical energy from monsters. Therefore technically one may make a case that this "energy" absorbed is a small fragment of "life force". Therefore if the user uses the VK (with the same hand which the glove is used) and is of non-Belmont-blood, the VK will drain the glove's magic first. If the glove's magic is continuously refilled, the VK will never drain its wielder's life force.

Now THIS is a good reason as to why one would include a "Hard Mode" (or normal if it's a "Souls" title) in a game where the protagonist needs to continually kill monsters rather than running past them.

I'm one of those people who thought POR would've been a lot cooler of the VK when equipped would continuously deduct HP (like Dominus Agony) cos I'm cool like that. 

[coinilius]

Now THIS is a good reason as to why one would include a "Hard Mode" (or normal if it's a "Souls" title) in a game where the protagonist needs to continually kill monsters rather than running past them.

YES!  This would be a great addition to a game - it could be part of a normal mode, the amount of damage you continuously take could just be tweaked between difficulty settings.  Enemies are generally plentiful enough that you wouldn't have to worry too much about dying just from energy drain.

[chainsawmidget]

I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to use dried and tanned "leather" made out of a dead Belmont's skin.

But if you really want to go horrific, let's go horrific.  Let's take our hero, chop off his hand, and use some crazy Frankenstein mad scientist to replace it with the hand of a recently deceased Belmont. 

Maybe the lead didn't want to be a hero but now he's forced into it by our stand in Dr. Frankenstein (or possibly THE Dr. Frankenstein who's got it in for Dracula for harboring his creations.)