Topic: I knew it! Castlevania: Lords of Shadow!(SPOILERS HERE, PLZ USE THE SPOILER TAG)

[JR]

http://www.originalsoundversion.com/castlevania-timeless-classic-or-retro-goggled-nostalgia-editorial/
This this this and this

I think Kurt's response in the comments section of that article said it best.

And to nitpick for a second...

Judging by fan response as well as the number of remixes, the prized musical gem of the series is “Bloody Tears.” It is a fine piece of music; exciting, full of spirit, and musical. But, again, this is a piece that could have easily been music for a boss in Contra.

Couldn't disagree with this more. Bloody Tears evokes a feeling of fantasy adventure for me more than anything else, whereas the Contra songs were very action-oriented overall.

Still an interesting read. Although it was kind of funny how the guy who wrote this sounded like he was walking on eggshells the whole time.

[Munchy]

"Try Lords of Shadow. And when you do, ask yourself: isn’t this the score you really want when battling the most legendary of all monsters to avenge the love of your life?"

Not really. Needs more pipe organ and actual melody. There are some tracks in LoS that have grown on me a lot, especially some of the pumping battle themes, but... I dunno. The soundtrack lacks subtlety. When Cox mentioned CV4 as an influence, I was hoping for an air of mystery and foreboding with the music, but the final product only seems to have "SAD" or "BATTLE" as its presets. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Araujo should save the money on an orchestra and study some Stravinsky, Debussy, etc.

I will agree that some of the older songs are a bit overrated though. There's only so much you can do with the <30 seconds of Bloody Tears/Vampire Killer before it drives you mad.

Also for the record, orchestra != automatic good music.

[Flame]

Wow. I liked LoS and its music, but I couldnt disagree more with that article.

Many of the themes represent the fight itself, not just Dracula. They give atmosphere, the feel of a Belmont fighting through Dracula's castle with all he's got. While in LoS, they went for more of an atmospheric choice. That is, certain themes to invoke certain feelings or ideas. Waterfalls of Agharta for example, is the "isolation" or "loneliness" track, used for large segments with no enemies, where Gabriel is alone. And it works pretty well. Its what makes the Clockwork Tower my favorite stage.

And the LOS theme, is used in titan fights, and is the "epic advanture" theme. whenever theres large expanses of ruins that are larger than life, or you are battling a humongous titan, it plays.

See what I mean? They went for atmospheric, but in a movie way.

Whereas the classic tracks invoke that more in the later games, especially SoTN. But on a per-level basis. The classic games really just had catchy tracks for each stage which sounded cool, and made people go "YEAH, IM AWESOME, IM A BELMONT! TAKE THAT SKELETON!"

[A-Yty]

I will agree that some of the older songs are a bit overrated though. There's only so much you can do with the <30 seconds of Bloody Tears/Vampire Killer before it drives you mad.

I agree, but that's only because they have been remixed to death. Mentioning those two in the context that person did really doesn't do anything to prove that the reason LoS's "epic" cookie-cutter soundtrack has been ill received is nostalgia.

That article..eh. I could comment on lots of things, but I'm sure all has been said already. I think it's pretty much as off as this:

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/heardmentality/2011/08/classic_games_that_modernized_well.php

Both make  the same lazy "you fans just don't get it with your nostalgia" claim. I'd almost label it as troll logic. Makes me wonder if those guys have actually ever even played a Castlevania (excluding LoS).

[Inccubus]

Well, I added my two cents to the article. Here it is in case it doesn't get posted for some reason.

(click to show/hide)

On 09.29.11 Vanya said: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

I think this entire discussion is missing a fundamental difference between a movie soundtrack and a video game soundtrack.
A movie soundtrack has to be crafted to draw the viewer into the scene in a much more meaningful way than in a video game. A video game soundtrack, on the other other hand doesn’t need to do that to the same extent. The player is already immersed into the environment by virtue of the fact that they are in control of what is going on to a great extent. In contrast, a movie viewer is simply a bystander and needs more stimuli to immerse them in what they are watching. However, a gamer has different needs of the music in the game he’s playing. As an active participant in the action the music needs to entertain more and immerse less. In a game you don’t need the music to perfectly match the environment or bear the full burden of evoking emotions because the player is already there feeling the emotions that they feel in response to what they are involved in. That said, I find that the LoS soundtrack does do a good job of functioning like any Hollywood-style soundtrack should and it might have been great if it had been in a movie. However, as a game soundtrack it is a complete failure. Part of what makes a game memorable IS the music and this soundtrack is completely forgettable bland in general. I played through the entire game, and can’t remember a single tune, let alone hum one. However, even tunes from the Nintendo 64 games, which are not my favorite, linger in my mind and can be summoned at will. As of a couple of months ago the LoS soundtrack has the dubious honor of being the ONLY castlevania soundtrack ever to be deleted from my hard drive for fear that I could fill the space with something else I might actually WANT to listen to.

Anyway, I think the fact that the music in LoS is reused over and over again for largely unrelated areas does a lot to damage the memorability of the soundtrack as a whole which isn't the music's fault of course. Not having specific environments to anchor the already bland songs to does nothing to help them stand out at all.

Whereas the classic tracks invoke that more in the later games, especially SoTN. But on a per-level basis. The classic games really just had catchy tracks for each stage which sounded cool, and made people go "YEAH, IM AWESOME, IM A BELMONT! TAKE THAT SKELETON!"

I argued this in my above response, but isn't that the point of music in a video game? To fortify the mindset of the player beyond what being within the situation itself accomplishes while keeping them entertained? Think of it this way, in a movie you need the music to convey the emotion of the protagonist being tricked into killing his beloved. But when a game tricks you, the player, into killing your pretend beloved with your own hands, it doesn't have to put the full burden of evoking the emotions on the music. That allows the music to just be entertaining for it's own sake.

What I'd really like to know is why do the 'musically knowledgeable' seem to think that because they know about music makes they're opinion more relevant? That entire attitude of "I know the nuances of music so I know better than you" while removing the music from it's native media put's their argument completely out of context.

[Nagumo]

http://www.originalsoundversion.com/castlevania-timeless-classic-or-retro-goggled-nostalgia-editorial/

That article must be the dumbest fucking thing I've read in a long time.

[crisis]

whoa Nagumo calm down!!!!


lettuce not drive Mr. Araujo to suicide... He certainly has talent as a general composer, but his style just doesn't mesh well with Castlevania. If he does more tracks like Belmont's Theme which is a fairly good piece that fits in with the series, then maybe we can give dude a second chance. I remember a while ago reading an article some journalist wrote that pretty much bashed the soundtracks of LoI & CoD, we got heated and he actually joined the forum to apologize, lol! So most articles that deal with CV are hogwash with few exceptions.

But as I say, I have it all figured out, exactly how Julius manages to finish off Dracula forever, so please wait a little bit longer.

[Inccubus]

That article must be the dumbest fucking thing I've read in a long time.

I have to agree with this sentiment.

[The Silverlord]

Hmmm.  Article based on fraudulent premise "that the Castlevania series has always been meant to be taken seriously," and appears to try and champion Lords of Shadow soundtrack as the one Castlevania should have had all along . . .

“Its [Castlevania] lack of congruity with its subject matter has always been jarring”

I must be wearing rose-tinted headphones or something.  Has he ever heard the Castlevania IV or Belmont’s Revenge soundtracks?  Must be nostalgia, 'cos those tracks definitely sound different today.


"Moving on from Symphony of the Night, there is not too much to report."

*chokes*



Agree with Flame, this time around it’s been more about complementing the mood and story of the game, pieces of music more for drama and atmospheric effect, rather than being piped out on a per-level or per-area basis.  The author should have focussed more on those aspects I think rather than pooh-pooh "incongruous diddies" in his attempt at higher musical discussion.

[Inccubus]

... in his attempt at higher musical discussion.

I find that notion to be completely irrelevant to the average gamer and should stay in blogs about music composition and such.

[A-Yty]

He's a career classical singer, goddamnit! Surely he must know better than us!

[The Silverlord]

If you ever hear someone alluding to "higher musical discussion" or "music is misunderstood" or "too complex for many to understand" you know exactly what's coming . . .

[uzo]

That article must be the dumbest fucking thing I've read in a long time.

I'm going to hop on this bandwagon. Kurt's comment pretty much summed it up completely.

Not at all surprised that Ahversus was the one who posted it.

[Kingshango]

That article feels like a attempt at trolling Castlevania fans.

That said, I liked Lords of Shadows music (DON'T KILL ME!) did I like it as Castlevania music? No, nothing in Lords of Shadows soundtrack will top anything from any Castlevania from any era.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I may not be a musical student, but I have hung around with enough of them, and do my own fair share of dabbling in the medium...
...and he's coming off terribly snobbish.

I think the term "Castlevania Music" is a reality.  One can listen to a few tracks from assorted games, and when one hears one that has that particular 'something' in it, one usually says "This sounds like it would fit in Castlevania".  Hell, we've all done it.  I believe there are a few Actraiser, Ys, and other such tracks that match this.

Also, Kurt hits the nail on the head with his response.  Bravo to Kurt.