Topic: I knew it! Castlevania: Lords of Shadow!(SPOILERS HERE, PLZ USE THE SPOILER TAG)

[Flame]

For me LOS is very Castlevaniash, much more than AOS and DOS

I love LoS as much as any other castlevania, and even I have to say "WHAT?"

[Dark Nemesis]

For me LOS is very Castlevaniash, much more than AOS and DOS for example.

And someone in they right mind would have never said, what you said.........

[crisis]

LoL, it's okay for him to say nonsense like that. Sumac doesn't have that much credibility at this point.

[Nagumo]

Not in all cases. But whatever.

Then don't generalize. 

[A-Yty]

It really is a pity you're not getting paid to do all this, Sumac. There's probably a marketing department that would love that chanting of "THEY ARE KONAMI. OLDIE FAN RESISTANCE IS FUTILE". You repeat your dogma of Coxlevania Revolution as if lukewarm reaction to LoS is simply silly refusal to accept a brighter future, knowingly ignoring that this forum, for example, has dissected the game to objectively rate it, even going as far as spending time to find Castlevaniaish things in LoS. No one wanted LoS to fail as a Castlevania game, but if someone thinks it did, it's preposterous to simply classify such an opinion as nostalgic stubborness.

If the original fans are of no interest to Konami, what was with the marketing of LoS being like SCV4 (which was a reeeally big stretch of facts)? The bait and switch they did on that trailer with SCVIV music on the background? The namedrops? The claim that LoS was originally supposed to be a remake of Castlevania and the releasing of that Simon video? Castlevania's Facebook page. How many LoS updates do you see? Those  damn nostalgic fools just keep filling it with ClassicVania just for laughs, right?

SotN is not comparable to LoS when it comes to renewing things. It was 2D, it had CVish music and it made a direct connection with previous games, events and familiar characters, to name a few differences. SotN wasn't a panic reaction, it was succesful experimentation that sadly contributed to the stagnation that has happened. And no, I'm not saying I only accept 2DVanias. I'm saying LoS was too much at once. And I didn't say OoE was evolution. I mentioned it because it was the last Metroidvania before LoS.

You are very strict when it comes to looking for alternatives. It wasn't and isn't a room where there's just two doors labeled "Metroidvania" and "ShadowcolossusgodofwarVania". Nor is it "succeed instantly like Donald Trump on steroids" versus "Die". And again you ignore what I said about the future of LoS. I didn't say it's a destined failure. I said it's not gonna succeed unless it comes up with something far more original than the first time around. Even you can probably agree with that.

You're saying they'll just find another group to make fans out of if Ancient Fans (TM) won't play ball anymore like it ain't a big thing. Think they're really gonna be able to do that without things like guys fighting Dracula with a whip, filling the players' ears with tunes they recognize and immersing them in the atmosphere of that dark lord's specific castle? Are you honestly saying they can just instantly replace a fanbase accumulated over the last 25 years and sail off to merry adventures? And when you say LoS is closer to true Castlevania formula (*suppressed laughter*), how is that different from what the fans you accuse of blatant nostalgia are saying? They want the feeling you claim to get from LoS, yet you say they don't get it because they just can't accept this renaissance you root for.  You stack all LoS criticizing to the pile of being backwards-spirited while crowning yourself the open-minded fan. And then you claim that I'm being selfish. I'd call you a troll, but it's clear no sane person would toil as much as you have on this crazy crusade without actually believing he's right.

I don't have a problem with "live and let live" per se. There isn't an overwhelming reason not to have two or more continuities. There's just two problems. There is the threat of this being marketed as a reboot and it usurps resources from the Castlevania I yearn for. I kind of wish there was a way to transfer the rights to Akumajo Dracula elsewhere. That way Konami could do its darndest with CoxleVania and let some other company take care of the real thing.

[crisis]

at least Sumac-chan is living up to it's awards



in other more interesting news...

I was bored so I decided to create some LoS artprints out of parchment paper, to uh, make my limited edition a lil bit more unique i guess







i am still looking for the devil mask

[meanguyjones]

you guys are cool

[Kingshango]

After a long read through various LOS related threads as of late I think it's time for me to chime in with a good tl:dr version of the argument at hand:

Lords of Shadow is good, it's it good enough to hold the Castlevania name, Akumajo or otherwise? Honest answer, no.

Me personally, I liked LOS and I can't wait for the sequel but it will never replace the previous games. If Mercurysteam wants to turn head back into their direction, they have to at least attempt to try to stay faithful to the source material instead on just using name drops.

[Sumac]

I love LoS as much as any other castlevania, and even I have to say "WHAT?"

And someone in they right mind would have never said, what you said.........

So much for the open mind of the fanbase.
How about that everyone have they own opinions, that has nothing to do with the "right" or "wrong" mind? I could say that no one in the right mind will say that LOS is not Castlevania, but I refrain from that.

And, yes, dark westernized fantasy action is much more Castlevania for me, than bright RPG with cliche animeish plot about japanese school boy saving the world from darkness. Twice. It's not a Castlevania that I like - it's parody on the generic manga or anime with some Castlevaniaish bits thrown in. Much like LOS in some people view, just add western fantasy instead of anime.

LoL, it's okay for him to say nonsense like that. Sumac doesn't have that much credibility at this point.

As if you've got tonnes of credibility to begin with...

Those  damn nostalgic fools just keep filling it with ClassicVania just for laughs, right?

More like attempt to not alienate old fans and give some pieces of the Castlevania they liked. To soften an impact of transition from old style to a new one.

SotN is not comparable to LoS when it comes to renewing things.

I beg to differ. Not much, but still.

You are very strict when it comes to looking for alternatives. It wasn't and isn't a room where there's just two doors labeled "Metroidvania" and "ShadowcolossusgodofwarVania".

I'm not strict at all, just as of now they there is not much of alternatives.

There is the threat of this being marketed as a reboot and it usurps resources from the Castlevania I yearn for.

It's already happened, the moment LOS was anonunced as Castlevania.
And besides there is still posibility of old continuty continuation. Personally I don't think that LOS will last for more than 3-4 games at best. Then it will be abother reboot likely, though.

And then you claim that I'm being selfish. I'd call you a troll, but it's clear no sane person would toil as much as you have on this crazy crusade without actually believing he's right.

I never go to any discussion if I am not believe that I am right. Otherwise there is no reason to do it. At least for me.

And when you say LoS is closer to true Castlevania formula (*suppressed laughter*), how is that different from what the fans you accuse of blatant nostalgia are saying?

There is difference between nostalgia and preferences. You seemingly don't get it.
I prefer classic'vania style and in my opinion LOS is closer to it.
However even if it was different, but still a quality game, I 'd like that too. I'm not about liking games that based on pure nostalgia factor or that reminds me about games of old. I like good games, that deliver quality gaming experience. The thing that LOS is closer to the classci'vania is pure coincedence in this case. I like it, but that's no a deciding factor in my liking of the game. More likely it's the fact that it's a good game and not another clone.

I kind of wish there was a way to transfer the rights to Akumajo Dracula elsewhere.

It looks like Konami doing something like that with Silent Hill and Contra - each new game in the last few years was developed by a new studio, as far as I know. I think Castlevania could  benefit from it.

[The Silverlord]

This exchange reminds me of a classic Belmont vs. Dracula scenario.  I’m casting Sumac as Belmont by the way.  He’s bloody determined.  A-Yty is a very calm and focussed Dracula, at times mocking, barely suppressed his laughter.  The hordes are moving in for our dear Belmont . . .

[Dark Nemesis]

Names, names, names.......LoS is Castlevania at name and it will stay that way, in my opinion. I think that if it was named as a spin off of lord of the rings series would fit more, since inside the game only the names of some characters are recognisable from the Castlevania saga. If those characters have been named different names, i don't think that i would have though it as a castlevania game.

Castlevania bestiary is based on mythological creatures and not fantasy creatures, ripped straight from J. R. R. Tolkien universe!!! Aria is accepted as the best Castlevania, after Symphony world wide. Yes it has fantasy elements, but they are few. It has more classic elements than fantasy, so it doesn't take off away from the old series, when LoS does the opposite!!!

Have you seen the new reboot of Tomb Raider? If no, go see it, to see how is a properly reboot!!!

[C Belmont]

The hordes are moving in for our dear Belmont . . .

dear to you perhaps

LOSt is closer to original formula of the series mixing some contemporary elements form other modern games

I fail to see how this is the case there was no Satan in the original formula, no tragic descent into darkness, evil never triumphed in the end. LOS couldn't be any further from the original formula.

[The Silverlord]

I'm actually with Dracula on a lot of this, but I don't want to see Belmont going down.

Sumac really does appreciate Lords of Shadow and its strengths, and I’d say there is a valid point in there somewhere that, yes, it’s more Classicvania than Metroidvania—linearity, rawer presentation and rough-around-the-edge design—but for every argument that the game is more closely tied to the roots of Castlevania (than the likes of Portrait of Ruin with its Saturday-morning cartoon characters and alien environments), there are ten or so that can take the game’s score, Tolkien-esque areas and monsters, outside influences such as Tomb Raider and God of War, lack of medusa heads, bone pillars etc. and make a simple, effective counter-argument that it is neither Classicvania or Metroidvania.
 
So for me, A-Yty’s about right: it’s Coxlevania.  I’ve got to admit I felt a little cheated by the SCV4 marketing too, although there was the Agharta section (and whip swinging!), and it may also be true that Lords (and its sequel) will be but “king for a day”.  However it turns out, Lords of Shadow has made an impression on the series and will not be forgotten.

[Dark Nemesis]

I'm actually with Dracula on a lot of this, but I don't want to see Belmont going down.

Sumac really does appreciate Lords of Shadow and its strengths, and I’d say there is a valid point in there somewhere that, yes, it’s more Classicvania than Metroidvania—linearity, rawer presentation and rough-around-the-edge design—but for every argument that the game is more closely tied to the roots of Castlevania (than the likes of Portrait of Ruin with its Saturday-morning cartoon characters and alien environments), there are ten or so that can take the game’s score, Tolkien-esque areas and monsters, outside influences such as Tomb Raider and God of War, lack of medusa heads, bone pillars etc. and make a simple, effective counter-argument that it is neither Classicvania or Metroidvania.
 
So for me, A-Yty’s about right: it’s Coxlevania.  I’ve got to admit I felt a little cheated by the SCV4 marketing too, although there was the Agharta section (and whip swinging!), and it may also be true that Lords (and its sequel) will be but “king for a day”.  However it turns out, Lords of Shadow has made an impression on the series and will not be forgotten.

I agree with what you are saying and that portrait of ruin isn't that much of castlevania, but i don't accept him to say that Aria isn't, when it was the first Castlevania to continue succesfully the Symphony formoula with new game play mechanics and darker mood.

[The Silverlord]

Aye, and Aria is a gem of a game (I rate it higher than Symphony): that should come into the equation over and beyond what a game even looks like (!).  But we as fans take things to the n^th degree.

I've been down on the Metroidvania game structure myself, but I'm actually beginning to itch for a new one.  There's got to be something around the corner . . .