Topic: Predict the effects of Lords of Shadow.

[DragonSlayr81]

Fixed camera doesn't always correct the problem. It's a start, sure, but some occassions, with the fixed camera, it's like the camera's on a rail system that, depending on locations, will move around to allow a better view of down the way. Though, like LoI(which also used a fix camera), sometimes you get the camera trying to compensate for moving around too fast, and it goes haywire. Or, which was a big concerned with LoI, you get the "off screen" angles where you're stuck in a fixed angle and the enemies are attacking you from off screen. If they remedy this by tuning the fixed camera enough to not go haywire or get stuck in an awkward angle, that's awesome.

[Ahasverus]

For what I can watch in the trailer, the camera looks very good, just watch the climbing sequence (IN a tower with the whip, you know, the second trailer) or the battle with the dark armor, it seems that camera angles are very cinematic, and, for what we've seen, there are not little squared rooms, the areas seem to be open. Of course, I don't know how the final game is

[shelverton.]

A fixed camera can be fine in a linear action game. It all depends on exactly HOW linear the game is. LoI was linear in a sense, almost like a Mega Man game with levels that didn't connect with eachother, though LoI had more exploration in each level. Which is why I don't think a fixed camera was the best choice for LoI.

3D Exploration + fixed camera = fail.

Now, with LoS, I guess the levels will follow a more classic, level-by-level structure, with little detours here and there? I don't get the impression that the levels will be as labyrinthine as in LoI, so a fixed camera could actually work... depending on how the platforming segments turn out. If the levels are mostly linear, I very much doubt you'll be attacked from off-screen or some stupid crap like that... if there aren't too many bransching paths all over the levels, it's gonna be fine... I think.

[CastleDan]

A fixed camera can be fine in a linear action game. It all depends on exactly HOW linear the game is. LoI was linear in a sense, almost like a Mega Man game with levels that didn't connect with eachother, though LoI had more exploration in each level. Which is why I don't think a fixed camera was the best choice for LoI.

3D Exploration + fixed camera = fail.

Now, with LoS, I guess the levels will follow a more classic, level-by-level structure, with little detours here and there? I don't get the impression that the levels will be as labyrinthine as in LoI, so a fixed camera could actually work... depending on how the platforming segments turn out. If the levels are mostly linear, I very much doubt you'll be attacked from off-screen or some stupid crap like that... if there aren't too many bransching paths all over the levels, it's gonna be fine... I think.

They said its level by level but there will be different routes you can take and places to explore. Some areas will be very big cox said.

[RichterB]

EDIT (The crux of my feelings finally came to me at the end in bold).

I understand in the sense of "market-history" that Castlevania wants to blend all of these other modern games. At the end of the day, I don't think that strategy is going to make the Castlevania name huge. To connect with & answer a comment earlier, I don't hate Devil May Cry--in fact, I played through 1-3 and loved #3. But at the end of the day, DMC is about anime-style action and encountering enemies that you have to combo to death. It's fun, but if done on too many games, it becomes boring. And the list of these games has exploded in the last few years. LoS will be different, but will it be different enough? I think Shelverton is right on when he says that action games are becoming more akin to Beat-'em-ups. That's not to say they can't be fun, but as it goes on, using the analogy, you can't tell much difference between the basics of Final Fight and Streets of Rage.

I don't have all the solutions, but I want to see 3D action-adventure break out of that rut, and I expect the Castlevania franchise to be a distinct industry leader. LoS is going to have its share of puzzles and the like. It might all turn out fine, it might be a mixed bag--who knows. I do not think it will be horrible by any means, but I'm itching for a Castlevania that sticks it to the industry and says: "I'M CASTLEVANIA in 3D--move over chumps!" Not, "I'm 3D Castlevania, and you can't refuse me this time because I have enough elements from other games that are popular in this current generation & have star power with Kojima and Sir Stewart." I mean, theoretically, if you could make Mario more popular by giving him guns like the modern Ratchet and Clank, it wouldn't necessarily make a superior Mario game.

My bottom line: The LoS trailer looks solid. It doesn't make me jump up and down, but it looks like it will be a good game. Problem is I'm past looking for a "good game" from Castlevania. I'm looking for something that blows one's mind in the way that Castlevania IV did back in the day. That's my problem. I mean no offense. The next trailer may blow me away. But right now there hasn't been enough evidence. The crazy thing is, despite all the subtle hints/homages, I haven't connected this game to "Castlevania" in my head. At the same time, though, if it wasn't Castlevania, I'd feel it was ripping Castlevania pretty badly. Needless to say, I do not know what to make of this game yet, and the media for it so far hasn't been helping me. So really, with all this talk, I'm just trying to figure out how I could be more convinced that this game is definitely Castlevania in 3D and is a distinct, leading game in the industry.

Random: Yeah, Shinobi for PS2 was enjoyable for its time (good music, too). I think level checkpoints would have helped the frustration level of its camera issues (the idea of death pits is cool with me, though). Never did get to play the PS2 sequel, Kunoichi. Also, you know what were good 3D action-platformers?--PS2's Maximo and Maximo 2 (they were the 3D "reimagining" of Capcom's amazing Ghosts N Goblins franchise). There were combos there too, but not as prolific, and that had some of the best designed platforming with a 3D camera for an action game.

[e105beta]

A fixed camera can be fine in a linear action game. It all depends on exactly HOW linear the game is. LoI was linear in a sense, almost like a Mega Man game with levels that didn't connect with eachother, though LoI had more exploration in each level. Which is why I don't think a fixed camera was the best choice for LoI.

3D Exploration + fixed camera = fail.

Now, with LoS, I guess the levels will follow a more classic, level-by-level structure, with little detours here and there? I don't get the impression that the levels will be as labyrinthine as in LoI, so a fixed camera could actually work... depending on how the platforming segments turn out. If the levels are mostly linear, I very much doubt you'll be attacked from off-screen or some stupid crap like that... if there aren't too many bransching paths all over the levels, it's gonna be fine... I think.

I'm not really sure how the level structure is going to be. I've heard linear, I've heard exploration, and Cox has said he was inspired by Legend of Zelda. If there was one thing I had absolutley no idea about in this game, it would be how the levels will play out.

And RichterB, I'm not sure if Castlevania will ever be an industry front runner again. That's my pessimism though. If the new Sonic game manages to be a smash hit, I will begin to believe that a dying series can come back with gusto. If it does poorly, it will only reaffirm my thoughts that the age old chant of "Old-skool but in HD" is nothing but a fantasy that only die-hard forum fans will ever be pleased with.

[Lumas]

I'm not really sure how the level structure is going to be. I've heard linear, I've heard exploration, and Cox has said he was inspired by Legend of Zelda. If there was one thing I had absolutley no idea about in this game, it would be how the levels will play out.

And RichterB, I'm not sure if Castlevania will ever be an industry front runner again. That's my pessimism though. If the new Sonic game manages to be a smash hit, I will begin to believe that a dying series can come back with gusto. If it does poorly, it will only reaffirm my thoughts that the age old chant of "Old-skool but in HD" is nothing but a fantasy that only die-hard forum fans will ever be pleased with.

I loath the newer sonic games....

Fuckin Earth? Its suppose to be Mobius damn it.

[CastleDan]

I'm not really sure how the level structure is going to be. I've heard linear, I've heard exploration, and Cox has said he was inspired by Legend of Zelda. If there was one thing I had absolutley no idea about in this game, it would be how the levels will play out.

And RichterB, I'm not sure if Castlevania will ever be an industry front runner again. That's my pessimism though. If the new Sonic game manages to be a smash hit, I will begin to believe that a dying series can come back with gusto. If it does poorly, it will only reaffirm my thoughts that the age old chant of "Old-skool but in HD" is nothing but a fantasy that only die-hard forum fans will ever be pleased with.

I'll tell you what Cox said exactly. Just read it from an older review.

" Some areas are linear point A to point B, other areas are very big with multiple routes where you need to explore."

He was inspired by zelda in how they told a story within the gameplay not so much the game itself.

[shelverton.]

I'm not sure if Castlevania will ever be an industry front runner again. That's my pessimism though.

I sometimes think that the name itself is kinda doomed. For newcomers, just reading the name won't say much about what the game is about. And for gaming veterans you're either in or you simply don't care for the series. Personally I think "Castlevania" is catchy as hell, but the majority of people who walk into their local video game store looking for some quick action fix, you're most likely gonna go for something that reads "GOD OF WAR" och "KILLZONE" or anything else that tells you something about the game. This logic is obviously flawed, but still... I think something like "VAMPIRE KILLER" or even "DEMON CASTLE DRACULA" would attract more players.
Dunno...

[CastleDan]

I sometimes think that the name itself is kinda doomed. For newcomers, just reading the name won't say much about what the game is about. And for gaming veterans you're either in or you simply don't care for the series. Personally I think "Castlevania" is catchy as hell, but the majority of people who walk into their local video game store looking for some quick action fix, you're most likely gonna go for something that reads "GOD OF WAR" och "KILLZONE" or anything else that tells you something about the game. This logic is obviously flawed, but still... I think something like "VAMPIRE KILLER" or even "DEMON CASTLE DRACULA" would attract more players.
Dunno...

CASTLE  and VANIA ... Do imply something though. It would seem pretty obvious that its a vampire guy to me if I was a newcomer. While I agree theres a lot of idiots out there who go for A DIRECT NAME I doubt that has anything to do with it.

Considering Sotn sold really well. I think it simply has to do with the fact that the games haven't been great lately and they keep rehashing. You go on other game boards and they all say " this is the first castlevania im gonna buy in a long time. Finally its done right"...

[Ahasverus]

Legend of Zelda is perhaps the worst name ever and it sells zillions. Oh no, I forgot killzone, that's the very worst generic game name ever, and it sold a lot. It's not about how silly a game could be named (And, to be fair, sub-titles of castlevania games are excellent, Order of ecclesia, Portrait of Ruin, Aria of Sorrow, Symhpny of the Night... Lords of Shadow could be the second most generic, behind Curse of Darkness) but I think that when a franchise is stablished it could be great. For example, Spiderman games suck since Ultimate, but  sell millions, Castlevania games are loved by game journalist, shine in metacritic, but sell 500k at the best, it's not a known franchise because it was turned into an eternal fan service in the last 12 years, I think that LOS could be the absolute smash up hit, or the last fail, if LOS fails, the saga is over, is that simple i fear   

[e105beta]

I loath the newer sonic games....

Fuckin Earth? Its suppose to be Mobius damn it.

They're going old skool. 2D HD and all that jazz.

I sometimes think that the name itself is kinda doomed. For newcomers, just reading the name won't say much about what the game is about. And for gaming veterans you're either in or you simply don't care for the series. Personally I think "Castlevania" is catchy as hell, but the majority of people who walk into their local video game store looking for some quick action fix, you're most likely gonna go for something that reads "GOD OF WAR" och "KILLZONE" or anything else that tells you something about the game. This logic is obviously flawed, but still... I think something like "VAMPIRE KILLER" or even "DEMON CASTLE DRACULA" would attract more players.
Dunno...

I think you've got to give gamers a LITTLE more credit than that. I don't think it's so much the lack of a brutal name but what Castlevania has become visually. Both games you mentioned are dark, gritty, violent games where the gameplay focuses on exactly that. Castlevania has a MUCH more elegant, almost feminine artstyle, but the gameplay consists of destroying monsters and demons. The people who want to destroy monsters and demons go play grittier games, while the people who play games with artstyle's like Castlevania trade action/RPG hybrids for RPGs like Persona.
That's just my take on it.

[Lumas]

They're going old skool. 2D HD and all that jazz.

Yeah just got see the return of a long forgotten badnik via some official concept work from Sega who also stated Sonic would be the only playable character and no other new characters would be introduced.