Topic: Castlevania - The Plot Hole Thread

[Reinhart77]

one thing i'd like to get straightened out is Grant's back story.  i think its pretty clear that him being a "pirate" is just something the North American game made up.  but i've been bugged by a single reference to him being a thief that didn't even make it into the final Judgment game.  here's from the press release announcing his inclusion in Judgment:

Grant Danasty used to live as a noble thief (much like Robin Hood) all the while aspiring to become a vampire hunter like Trevor. As the most agile man in Transylvania, Grant Danasty joined forces with Trevor to defeat Dracula. Since overpowering Dracula, Grant Danasty has become a true champion of good, devoting his time to restoring the town to the days before Dracula’s rule.

here's what his background story in the manual actually became:

Danasty is a rogue from Valachia with a strong sense of justice. He helped Trevor defeat Dracula and then worked to rebuild the town. He sees Trevor as an older brother.

I'm guessing they decided that making a reference to Robin Hood sounded stupid, but it's stuck in my mind and i feel that i "understand" him a lot more as a Robin Hood like figure.  maybe a rogue with a strong sense of justice who is a man of the people is pretty much the same thing as a Robin Hood like person.  can we imply by "rogue" that he's a thief?  the one thing in the game that indicates that he actually is a thief is the fact that he "steals" coins from candles etc.  

then there's a question if he's acting on his own, or if he has a band of merry men.  the robin hood analogy and the English Dracula's Curse manual calling him a "pirate captain" makes me think he's a leader of a band of thieves.  but the Japanese Dracula's Curse doesn't seem to suggest this.  it just says he was one of several people who tried to overthrow Dracula, not necessarily their leader.  and these conspirators are not necessarily thieves, even if he is, or even if he has a band of thieves.  in my mind the conspirators are his loyal band of thieves and his lament that "everyone is dead" in the Japanese version means that all these people who he has grown so close to in their cause are dead.  the Japanese translations i've seen doesn't even seem to say he is a thief, much less a pirate.  i wonder if the Judgment persona ended up as a compromise between the Japanese and North American Dracula's Curses?

so, in my mind at least, he is the leader of a group of outlaws opposing Dracula's rule in the name of the people.  one way that they tried to resist Dracula was to steal from him and helped his suffering people with the goods.  i imagine most of the times they acted like bandits along a trail, but they may have resorted to piracy on the lake Dracula's Castle sits in as well, so you could actually call Grant a Pirate Captain after all...

are there any interesting nuggets in the Japanese version of Judgment that might help verify or disprove this theory?

[X]

In CV3 Dracula's castle is not situated on a lake-side it's a small watery inlet that opens up into the Black sea. We see this again in the opening of SotN. You also forgot to mention the end credits in CV3. While scrolling through the characters that you play it says the Grant is an acrobat. What the hell? He's a Pirate in the manual but in the game credits he's some kind of circus preformer?? Last time I checked, Grant had acrobatic ability but he was a pirate.

-X

[Reinhart77]

i thought it was on a lake in both games (Crystal Lake).  guess i'll have to recheck the maps.

i never thought "acrobat" was being used in the literal sense.  only that he had acrobatic skills.  but yeah...

[Inccubus]

I don't remember any mention of anything taking place by the Black Sea.
There's a geographical problem with that anyway because Transylvania is land locked with the province of Wallachia in the south between it and the Black Sea. And they only ever mention a *town* called Wallachia, not the province.

[X]

I've just looked over a map of Romania and I can see the eastern inlet where the castle would be situated. I've also checked the SotN map that appears during the game intro and it's the exact same place. Many other games also support this sea-side location too. The only games that don't seem to be CV64/LoD.

-X

[Inccubus]

All the games say they take place in Transylvania, therefore they cannot physically take place on the Black Sea.
Additionally, none of them say that they take place there. Furthermore, the CV3 map is a very close up map that could just as easily be a complete fabrication not based on any real place. The SotN map looks way to blurry to accurately matched to a real map. More importantly, we don't know the scale of this map. It could be the inlet of a large lake that happens to have a similar contour.

[Reinhart77]

no, not all the games say Transylvania.  some newer ones all say Wallachia (not just a town by that name).  the map during the intro of Curse of Darkness comes to mind, but there's probably more.  but it does get confusing that there's a town and region called Wallachia in different games.  wonder how much of the Wallachia town/region Transylvania/Wallachia confusion is just inconsistent localizations or just different names being used during different centuries.

[X]

Yeah it does get kind of confusing with all these mix'n match games that konami of america likes to pull on us fans. The only things we need to keep in mind are these facts; Wallachia is a province within Romania and Transylvania is the central mountainchain that crosses directly through the country itself. In tearms of the towns and cities mentioned in the series, they're pretty much all factisious. I just don't understand why KoA couldn't figure this out and had to confuse us all??

-X

[Nagumo]

Oh, I totally forgot about something.

Since people are saying that LoD and CV64 are canon again, how and why did the Schneiders pass the whip to the Morris family? Eh, I really don't know if those games were indeed reinstated but I'm asking it anyway.

[darkwzrd4]

Oh, I totally forgot about something.

Since people are saying that LoD and CV64 are canon again, how and why did the Schneiders pass the whip to the Morris family? Eh, I really don't know if those games were indeed reinstated but I'm asking it anyway.

I wouldn't pay attention to that.  The people saying that a likely people who liked those games and think that they should have never been removed from the cannon.  Plus, if you remember, in PoR Jonathan (spelling?) in a conversation with charlotte asks "why the belmonts even gave the whip to the morris family."  So, according to that, the Schneiders never existed.

[Danial]

It's been so long since I've played CV64 or LoD that I've forgotten.  Did either of those games specifically call the whip Vampire Killer?  If they didn't, you could always go with the CotM excuse that it's a different magical whip.

[X]

you could say that. In CotM it was called the 'Hunter whip' and not 'Vampirekiller'

-X

[darkwzrd4]

It's been so long since I've played CV64 or LoD that I've forgotten.  Did either of those games specifically call the whip Vampire Killer?  If they didn't, you could always go with the CotM excuse that it's a different magical whip.

While they never called the whip in CV64 Vampire Killer, Reinhart's intro stated that he was the heir to the Belmont clan.  So, the implication is that the whip he weilds is the VK.

[Reinhart77]

I was never convinced that "Hunter Whip" is really talking about a different whip than the VK.  I always figured it was just an alternate name for it.  It's been called all sorts of other things in the past, such as "Holy Whip".  But yeah, it might be a different whip.

Didn't Iga mention once that the events of C64 and LoD did happen in an "alternate reality", that might even have ties to the main canon, but that Legends never happened in any reality within the canon multiverse?  Cornell could have been taken from this multiverse in Judgment.

[X]

Didn't Iga mention once that the events of C64 and LoD did happen in an "alternate reality", that might even have ties to the main canon, but that Legends never happened in any reality within the canon multiverse?  Cornell could have been taken from this multiverse in Judgment.

IGA doesn't like Female protagonists. That's why Legends is non-existant in all the multiverse timelines. The man seriously needs to lighten up on the whole sexual discrimination gig.

-X