Topic: Castlevania - The Plot Hole Thread

[MeSako]

32

Explanation please.. ..

[Nagumo]

There isn't much to explain though I could always show you the source:
http://castlevania.armster.org/trans_loi.php

Translation of the LoI Perfect Guide. 

[Lumas]

Okay let me rephrase. I wouldn't doubt (not that I would like them to or anything like that) if they did retcon Quincy out of the time line much like they did with Dracula's age, his origin, Castlevania Legends, and other tid bits of info to suit the newly established time line.

[Reinhart77]

they did make a reference to Quincy in Portrait of Ruin, though they didn't call him by name.  Jonathan asked Eric about what he remembered of his grandfather, and Eric said he was a very kind man.  It seems to me that Jonathan was trying to figure out what kind of man would let his son use the VK whip if he knew the consequences, but Eric assured him Quincy and company had no idea that it sucked up the life force of its non-Belmont user.  

[Archangel]

The Conversation you were referring to, Reinhardt ^^

Jonathan: Say, Eric, there's something I wanna ask you.

Eric: Sure. What is it?

Jonathan: Did my father know the Vampire Killer would
          consume his life when he used it?

Eric: No. We only learned the truth after Dracula was
      defeated. We found out using magic after noticing
      John took so long to recover.

Jonathan: I see...

Charlotte: Jonathan? Why did you ask that?

Jonathan: Grandfather was already dead by the time I was
          born. I was wondering grandfather gave him the whip
          knowing the truth about it.

Charlotte: Hm. I wonder...

Eric: Have no worries. Your grandfather was exceptionally
      strong, but kind.

Charlotte: That's good to hear, right, Jonathan?

Jonathan: I suppose...

-------

I kinda agree with Lumas here... they´ve already retconned alot of things..even things that might be important to some extend. It wouldn´t make any diffrence if they´d delete Quincy Oo He´s not even mentioned by name in any CV Game (ingame).
Don´t get me wrong: I liked the idea of Stokers Novel serving as a tie-in to the whole CV Saga in the beginning.... but looking back at it, it doesn´t make much sense to me.

I still haven't had the chance to expand on the story with Quincy Morris.

Sounds like he had the Idea to make a Quincy Game that fits more into CV-Canon. But I wouldn´t bet on it... sounds like another "Battle of 1999" story that´s never come to happen oo"

[Danial]

I never thought it made sense that Simon was walking around for seven years with a curse that was slowly rotting his flesh and killing him, then with one week left to go he decides to end the curse.  Also, why does Dracula's curse take so long.  Talk about a slow burn.  No one in that game is in a hurry.

[Reinhart77]

Simon didn't realize he was cursed.  The Japanese manual basically said he had broken his back in the battle and that he got worse and worse until he felt he was at death's door.  In response to this, he went to the family graveyard, and it was there that a mysterious woman told him about the curse and then vanished as if mist.

Wonder who this woman was, if a ghost residing in his families graveyard, maybe it was an ancestor, such as Sypha?  Wouldn't that be weird if Captain N got it right?  (there's an episode where he goes to the graveyard to fret about Trevor's tarnished reputation and a male Sypha appeared to him).

At any rate, Simon couldn't learn the truth until he went to the place that could tell him the truth, which he didn't do until he thought it was all over.

Here's the translation:
http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv2/documents/CV2J.txt

Judgment appears to have retconned the "broken back" thing, and just went with the wounds getting worse.  Here's Judgment's ending:

Thus the rift in time was mended, and all were returned to their respective
eras.
Six years later, a mysterious woman would tell Simon Belmont of the curse
placed upon him.
To free himself from that curse, he would have to collect Dracula's remains --
his nail, heart, rib bone, eyeball, and ring -- and burn them all at the ruins
of Castlevania.
And with that, Simon set off on a new quest...

[Lumas]

I think it all comes down to the fact IGA just needs to release a new time line and establish some things that would be considered plot holes. That hole 100 year resurrection and "half" resurrections needs to abolished because what he stated in 05 makes more sense. I dont see the point in having Quincy in the series anyway, yeah Bram's book was good but this is Castlevania and with Dracula being established as Mathias taking the name Dracula there would be no point in trying to work in some one else's story. I can see paying homage to Bram since he was the man who made Dracula into a vampire by using the Morris' sur-name but I really dont see how it could fit into the time line any better then Legends because it just adds more confusion to what did and what didn't happen in 1800s. We got him returning 1820 then in 1830 then again in 1844 and again in 1852 with Order of Ecclesia happening some where since it happened in the mid 1800s and the inclusion of Brams novel would have him returning again in 1897. Not to mention he was last put to rest in Symphony of the night in 1797 just 23 year previously to CotM. And we don't even know for sure if CotM, LoD, and 64 have been re-established or they are still omitted since the last updated timeline they were present and with Cornell's presence in Judgement, take note that all the other characters were "cannon" characters as well as all the characters back stories, that just leads us to believe that LoD at least is still in the time line because why throw in a none cannon character when you could have just had "Werewolf" like you had a "Golem". He doesn't even take human form so why go through the trouble of establishing him as Cornell if the games weren't present in the time line. So basically he just needs to come out with a new time line to explain everything.

[Lumas]

And to add, it doesn't matter if they choose to keep CotM, LoD, or 64 to me even though LoD and 64 are two of my favorites and would hate to have them removed but at this point I would just like something officially stated as oppsed to "Well I took them out because...." then turn around and have them present in the time line. IGA has already retconned a lot of things in the series and even went as far as removing games from the time line just because he didn't like them (Legends) sorry I'm not buying that bs of "Oh it didn't fit into the time line and contradicted it" Bloodlines contradicts the story now because it includes Bram's Novel which is totally different to Castlevania's mythos of Dracula and since he has ignored the 100 year bs before thanks to him releaseing Lament of Innocence there is plenty of room for Legends the only thing it contradicts is Trevor being the first Belmont to defeat Dracula. So if he is going to go through all that trouble why not retcon some more things that would help clear up the story better. I can live with out Quincy and possibly the removal CotM, LoD, and 64 so he could make room for his game like he has done in the past. Just go and do it already so we dont have to sit here and guess about what is official and what isn't. I'm not stating he ruined the series or anything like that all I'm getting it is that he is (or was) sitting in the big boy chair and needs to make a choice on how the series' time line should run instead of us playing guessing games.

[Danial]

Simon didn't realize he was cursed.  The Japanese manual basically said he had broken his back in the battle and that he got worse and worse until he felt he was at death's door.  In response to this, he went to the family graveyard, and it was there that a mysterious woman told him about the curse and then vanished as if mist.

Wonder who this woman was, if a ghost residing in his families graveyard, maybe it was an ancestor, such as Sypha?  Wouldn't that be weird if Captain N got it right?  (there's an episode where he goes to the graveyard to fret about Trevor's tarnished reputation and a male Sypha appeared to him).

At any rate, Simon couldn't learn the truth until he went to the place that could tell him the truth, which he didn't do until he thought it was all over.

Here's the translation:
http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cv2/documents/CV2J.txt

Judgment appears to have retconned the "broken back" thing, and just went with the wounds getting worse.  Here's Judgment's ending:

Thus the rift in time was mended, and all were returned to their respective
eras.
Six years later, a mysterious woman would tell Simon Belmont of the curse
placed upon him.
To free himself from that curse, he would have to collect Dracula's remains --
his nail, heart, rib bone, eyeball, and ring -- and burn them all at the ruins
of Castlevania.
And with that, Simon set off on a new quest...

Yeah, I know what the story says.  I just find it a little stupid that he walked around for seven years feeling like crap and getting worse every day, meanwhile Transylvania was cursed also, and all of it seemed to start the day he was seriously wounded by and killed Dracula.  Way to make the connection there Simon.  The Belmont's may be the toughest group, but they certainly aren't the smartest.

[Lumas]

Yeah, I know what the story says.  I just find it a little stupid that he walked around for seven years feeling like crap and getting worse every day, meanwhile Transylvania was cursed also, and all of it seemed to start the day he was seriously wounded by and killed Dracula.  Way to make the connection there Simon.  The Belmont's may be the toughest group, but they certainly aren't the smartest.

Simon was never known for his smarts.

[darkwzrd4]

Simon was never known for his smarts.

None of them are.  They are simply known as the strongest vampire hunters.  While being some kind of hunter requires skill and knowledge, that doesn't mean that they are intelligent enough to put two and two together.

[Nagumo]

Well, there is  speculation that Simon's curse was actually leprasy (that's why Simon's body started to decay and some people even claim that this was also the origin for the song Bloody Tears, because leprasy makes you cry tears of blood). Simon probably first thought that it was just an disease rather then a curse put on him by Dracula.

I hope that's a good explanation.

Why could only Shanoa be the vessel for Dominus?             

[DragonSlayr81]

Why could only Shanoa be the vessel for Dominus?             

I wondered that too, unless her identity/heritage is the key. Two theories spring to mind:

1. She's the daughter of Alucard and Maria, hence has some of Dracula's blood and can use Dominus.

2. She's the descendant of Hector and Julia, and has inherited some of Hector's dark magic(which we know Hector's Devil Forging abilities use Dracula's magic).

Though as far as crackpot theories are concerned, I'm liking the first one. Shanoa will eventually marry, and down the line, probably give birth to the Lecarde family. And down that line, Stella and Loretta, who both look like they could be descendants of Shanoa.

[Nagumo]

I don't think it's possible for the Lecardes to be ancestors since they are Belmont off shoots. Maria is of course also related to the Belmont Clan but I doubt that descendants of Dracula could power up the Vampire Killer. Same reason why Trevor could never wield the VK IF he would have been Alucard's son.

Well, that's only my opinion of course.