Topic: "Metroid Other M" Review Wackiness *No Spoilers!*

[corneliab]

Sounds like you're out of ammo. Try concentrating.

[RegalX7]

1 poor example and a comic vs. a series of actual games.

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Writing off Fusion & the manga just like that... We'll get nowhere in this conversation if you're going to disregard the fact that Samus's current personality has existed for years. I get that you don't like her personality, that's fine. Ignoring the canon 'cause you don't like it isn't.

EDIT (spoilers?):



Look familiar?

And so are the games.

Well yeah, no one said otherwise.

[Super Waffle]

Ignoring the canon 'cause you don't like it isn't.

You do realize this board is heavily IGA-supportive, right?

[corneliab]

Writing off Fusion & the manga just like that... We'll get nowhere in this conversation if you're going to disregard the fact that Samus's current personality has existed for years. I get that you don't like her personality, that's fine. Ignoring the canon 'cause you don't like it isn't.

I'm not writing off Fusion. I have no problem with how she was depicted in that game. Her musings were brief, well-written, and closely intertwined with the plot. Other M's ramblings are often cringe-inducing in their pretentiousness, redundancy, and frequency. Big difference in portrayal there, and that's why I dismissed your example.

Regarding the manga though, my issue with it is that it's an easily-overlooked entity totally separate from the games. I'll take a shot in the dark here and say that a good 80-90% of anyone who's ever played a Metroid game doesn't even know it exists. More obviously haven't read it. This leads straight back to my quip about the games' places in the canon which you conveniently took as literally as you could. Those games have presented a persona of Samus that remains just as canon as the comic- one that shows no signs of self-doubt, crippling emotional baggage, or inner conflict.

Since these character aspects are not displayed, the audience can only assume that they are not there or are kept in check. I mean, after all, you're playing as a character that has accomplished much and has endured countless life-threatening situations in succession. It's difficult to believe that a person that is apparently inherently emotional, self-questioning, and mentally vulnerable will be able to endure such circumstances at all. Audiences have therefore built an expectation regarding the character that is entirely reasonable, supported in context, and is understandably subject to alienation by a sudden and dramatic shift regarding in-game portrayal.

All that aside though, I feel compelled to point out that your little panel there depicts an internal struggle that occurred BEFORE all three Prime games, Super, and Other M, and during Samus' initial reencounter with Ridley. Considering the fact that SHE GOT OVER IT in the very manga you people so often love to cite, and has since been shown doing battle with the creature repeatedly and capably, Other M's infamous scene clearly comes across as contextually misplaced and jarring.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Sounds like you're out of ammo. Try concentrating.

Ha ha, way to add something mature to the conversation.
Keep it up, please.  I haven't cleaned house here in a while.

[RegalX7]

I'm not writing off Fusion. I have no problem with how she was depicted in that game. Her musings were brief, well-written, and closely intertwined with the plot. Other M's ramblings are often cringe-inducing in their pretentiousness, redundancy, and frequency. Big difference in portrayal there, and that's why I dismissed your example.

But they're really similar. In her Fusion monologues, she's always saying stuff like "Adam would have said the same thing," or "Adam would have understood my decision," and go on explanations of his character.

Regarding the manga though, my issue with it is that it's an easily-overlooked entity totally separate from the games. I'll take a shot in the dark here and say that a good 80-90% of anyone who's ever played a Metroid game doesn't even know it exists. More obviously haven't read it.

Probably, but that doesn't make it unimportant, as it explains so much that they still haven't said in the games. I have no idea how popular the manga was in Japan, but it was likely known much better than it is here.

Those games have presented a persona of Samus that remains just as canon as the comic- one that shows no signs of self-doubt, crippling emotional baggage, or inner conflict.

As I said earlier in the topic, the developers kept saying Other M is "a look into Samus's character." None of the other games had that focus.

All that aside though, I feel compelled to point out that your little panel there depicts an internal struggle that occurred BEFORE all three Prime games, Super, and Other M, and during Samus' initial reencounter with Ridley. Considering the fact that SHE GOT OVER IT in the very manga you people so often love to cite, and has since been shown doing battle with the creature repeatedly and capably, Other M's infamous scene clearly comes across as contextually misplaced and jarring.

Again, as I said earlier, given the focus on Samus's character, I believe the idea was that they wanted to reference why Ridley is her nemesis, and that scene in particular. I agree that it ended up pretty awkward (though, I don't think it's as devastating), but my point is that her character in general shouldn't be a surprise, given Other M and the manga were always known (from the previews) to be so closely-knit.

[corneliab]

Ha ha, way to add something mature to the conversation.
Keep it up, please.  I haven't cleaned house here in a while.

I laugh at all the fans who are getting their panties in a twist about this.

Hypocrite alert. Also, is my previous post not "mature" enough for you?

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I must've struck a nerve for you to come back with your quip, which wasn't directed at you unless the shoe fits.  It's not the big deal you're making hilarious paragraphs about, but if you want to rage and be a little child about it, that's fine.

You don't see Waffle attacking back, do you?  That's 'cuz Waffle's cool like that.

Also, I'm the with the hammer, and you're the one with the Warning.
One more for the road?

[RichterB]

SPOILERS ahead (can't change this topic's title and it's already spoilerific):

I've got some things to say here. Speaking of that last post, corneliab: "She Got Over It"--people can regress given the right scenario. Just like PTSD.

Let's look at the context: Samus went from a lone bounty hunter to a compassionate/vengeful mother-figure in Metroid II's ending and Super Metroid. (She was never as hard-nosed/earthy as Alien's Ripley, or she wouldn't have sympathy for baby Metroids...or for that matter the trapped Dachora and Etecoons). In the end, she lost the baby, despite her best efforts; it had to save her. Following this lost feeling of connection with the baby, she's thrown into a situation where she is united with the only other people she's had significant connections to in her life: Adam and Anthony (and to some extent by proxy, Adam's little bro, Ian). This awakens the other, younger side of herself that struggled so hard to fit in after being an orphan--the only other time she really dealt personally with major social situations. As the mission goes along, she is surprised to run into Ridley--who is connected with not only stealing her parent's lives, but also indirectly responsible for the baby Metroid's demise, as well. She offers to face Ridley without Anthony, wanting to protect him like she wanted to protect the baby. But as she sees Ridley amidst the flames, it triggers the wealth of emotions she has built up from revisiting her past already during this unsettling Other M mission. She was sure she'd never have to face Ridley again after Super Metroid (which was after Primes and featuring a real Ridley, not Meta Ridley, etc). Is it carried off perfectly? No. Does it destroy the game and Samus? No. (It's interesting that no one complained when Samus teamed up with bounty hunters and GF marines in Prime 3--and needed their help to advance/survive--and then was sad/wistful about it in the best ending).

Speaking of which--You bring up the Prime games, which is understandable, but those don't register with Sakamoto (who mostly worked on Metroids 1, 3, and 4). Those are secondary canon to him, and thus didn't play into his main timeline story whether they should have or not. Even so, the scenario I laid out would be the perfect opportunity for a PTSD moment more so than in the Prime games. Especially so, again, when you consider that the Prime games occurred BEFORE the loss of the baby in Super Metroid and the facing of a second non-Meta Ridley.

As for the manga--It's information has been incorporated into the games for a while. Metroid Fusion's Japanese endings feature young Samus training with the Chozo and also (if you get < 4 hours) show her parents' last stand against Ridley with her as a child cowering. Further, Metroid Zero Mission features more childhood teases with the Chozo linked to the manga. The manga speaks of how the Power Suit is linked to the mind, explaining why the suit failed on Samus during the fight with Ridley in Other M. The Prime games only further link her history, past and present with the Chozo. Her power-ups are linked to Chozo tech, as is her Power Suit. And you see how obsessed she is with the thought of Ridley when she basically is tracking a version of Ridley for the whole of Prime 1.

In Fusion, it was clear that Samus was an introspective woman, and it makes sense that she'd be thinking/pondering with all the puzzles, Chozo ruins, and battles she's been engaged in over the series. Her mind can't be a complete blank when she's doing the amount of exploring she has. I'm in the last quarter of Other M, and while the story could have been handled better, it doesn't ruin the character or world of Metroid. I haven't beaten it yet, but I'm more confused about how Other M's treatment of GF experiments affects the novelty of Fusion's big reveals with Samus herself. But I'm not going to hold that against the whole package. This game is really opening up now, and I'm losing myself in it.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I feel the same way as RichterB does.
I'm a huge Metroid fan, so I've gobbled up all the tidbit the game has to offer.  I even have the Super Metroid comic from Shisegato Itoi from a while back.

I would say that the more casual fans of the series have not read this stuff, but the more hardcore ones have.  It's clear that there's a big connection now between Other M and Fusion, and it's in Fusion's other ending graphics that you get to see the stuff, coming from the Horse's Mouth (Nintendo).

She's never been like Ripley.  She may have been tough, but not the same as Ripley.  This is from the old Metroid II ending.  She could've easily been like Ripley and blasted the baby Metroid as it hatched, but didn't.  In those days you couldn't really display a rationale or an emotion on that tiny screen and you didn't really get a chance to do anything close to that until Fusion (with her profile pic in the communicator), or Prime (which purposefully toned it down because they were going for a silent protagonist and you learned all of the lore through the scan logs).

Talk to someone who's been a cop, or went to Iraq, or had wars or severe events that they've had to cope with and they'll tell you... it never goes away.  You can learn to deal with it to a degree, but that feeling is always with you and you can revert to a cowering person in a foxhole incredibly easily.

[Inccubus]

Yeah, I think a lot of ppl are bitching because they can.
Perfection is a subjective and illusionary thing that if it did exist in our universe would have prevented the laws of nature from giving rise to life. Ironic that life seeks perfection.
Anyway. The only thing that I think was a bad decision was the power up system.

[corneliab]

I must've struck a nerve for you to come back with your quip, which wasn't directed at you unless the shoe fits.

Of course the shoe fits. It's one-size-fits-all. You made an encompassing remark primarily directed at those who have issue with the game. Last I checked, this game was being largely met with mixed opinions.

It's not the big deal you're making hilarious paragraphs about, but if you want to rage and be a little child about it, that's fine.

So if I make a little remark, it gets met with misinterpretation. If I expand upon it and try to clarify what I mean in a thoughful way (hell, did you even bother to read it?), it is dismissed as childlike raging. This is completely backwards thinking that defeats the purpose of a message board, and it's honestly rather disheartening seeing it come from the forum administrator of all people.

It's interesting that no one complained when Samus teamed up with bounty hunters and GF marines in Prime 3--and needed their help to advance/survive--and then was sad/wistful about it in the best ending

I actually praised that sequence earlier in the thread for its successful and appropriate portrayal of Samus' emotional side. The fact that the player experienced first-hand the regrettable events that she's reflecting upon further enhance the relatability of the scene, and the isolation and silence of it all both adds to its poignancy and keeps with the spirit of the games.

As for the manga--It's information has been incorporated into the games for a while.

I am not disputing the history side of the manga. As you even said, much of the important stuff has been incorporated into the games. My issue is with the disparity that has arisen between the manga and the games regarding the depiction of Samus' personality, be it from technological limitations or Retro's interpretation. I personally prefer Retro's approach to the character due to its subtlety, and I'm sure there are many others who probably feel the same. Likewise, there are those who find themselves more inclined toward Sakamoto's supposed original vision. This is a pretty poisonous thing for the series, and it's a shame that more control over this wasn't enacted sooner. As such, it's not hard to see why people can have issue with Other M and its "this is how things are" mentality.

Also, I can't quite say I'm a fan of the decision to give Samus PTSD in the first place. It's very difficult to appreciate a triumph with an internal struggle if it's bound to be only temporary.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

You know what.  You're right.
You did your best to clarify your statement.  I now retract both the Warning as well as my comments.

I still think you're overreacting with regards to the game, though.

[RichterB]

Unfortunately, the Metroid series has had so many hands in it now that it's hard for it to fire on all cylinders. Just think, it went off into left field with the Phazon story becoming more large-scale than Metroid I-III, and has moreover been told chronologically out of order--whether it be the Prime games or Other M being "in-between episodes," or the manga and Zero Mission saying things after the fact. The smooth narrative of I-III has become muddled. As a big fan, I see there are some potential story contradictions starting to seep through.

But anyway, the action in Other M has just hit the fan. More and more, I'm not sure how to assess this game except to say it's pretty amazing in its own right and a great deal of fun. It is surprising me as it races toward its climax.

[Inccubus]

The thing with Metroid is that despite going off on different game play tangents has worked out as can be evidenced by the over all success of the series. Perhaps it could just be that the fans get ravenous wait like a minimum of like 8 years between games.