Topic: Thunderbrand's Spoiler thread---

[GuyStarwind]

1. I completely agree - Mathias does make sense as THAT Dracula, but a comparison was drawn between the two characters. Branding Gabriel as a simpleton isn't more correct than branding Mathias as a gimp. I'm not stating that physical prowess is more descriptive of the character of Dracula than genius - I would guess he sounds like a more threatening villain if he's both - however looking at what the two characters did to become the Vampire Lord, I can't help but think that Gabe's track record is more impressive. If Mathias' machinations were more complex than "I got this stone and Leon is mad with anger" I could probably even see things your way; to borrow from another Konami game, while Ocelot certainly doesn't have Liquid Snake's combat skills, the amount of scheming and double crossing he pulled off warranted him to role of star villain. Mathias does nothing of that magnitude - I'd be hard pressed to say Mathias does anything at all.
If tomorrow Kojima and Mercury Steam tell us that Gabe is actually Dracul and Dracula is his son and they retell Mathias' story giving the character some justice, I'll be all for giving that a chance.

2. That's fair, however my point was simply that if you told someone "this dude betrayed a friend to make him do all he needed to become Dracula" and "this dude went through all these adventures and was betrayed and became Dracula out of spite and anger and faced off Satan himself", I'd be hard pressed to believe he would find Mathias' story more "impressive". You may tell me that betrayal suits Dracula; as I said, we probably have a point of disagreement in the fact that you find the fact that Dracula was a bad guy before becoming a vampire a plus, Dracula is "historycally" a tragic figure. The idea of him being a necessary evil is completely rooted in his historical inspiration (think of the Turks and the "woods of the impaled" tactics he used to stop them). Dracula also is commonly portrayed as a champion of Christianity that feels betrayed in myth. I don't see how people couldn't see this ending coming, tbh.

3. I could actually prefer tactical geniouses... the point is that there's no comparison between how the two are portrayed. It's not really Mathias' character's fault - it's probably just the fact that IGA's storytelling is dire and LoI's script was exceptionally weak. I have no particular preference for warrior types, and actually nothing in CV's Dracula design hints at him being a warrior (he wears a tuxedo in XVth century, hard to build anythign from there). I do however fancy (due to cultural influxes and my expertise in the original Dracula mythos) the idea that he's a cursed characters, and that he didn't willingly pursue his curse, until the very end. Having him "want" to become a vampire sort of strips him of any dramatic impact. Mathias' version was sort of redeemed by his physical sickness. If the story played something along the way of him being frustrated by his body's weakness (think Griffith in Berserk) and pursuing vampirism as a way to be "full" again, the character could have developed its potential more.

4. Yes, fleeing was smart and it also spared us from having an origin story where the main villain already dies (something LoS was wise enough to do too - not saying it couldn't be pulled off, but still) - however it does remove some oomph from the character. By the time I played LoI, I had been through the ordeal of reaching and fighting Dracula, a guy so strong that he could command Death, several times. He's meant to be frightening. And in his origin story... he flees?
That's what Gabriel achieves greatly. There's a specific scene when he turns wearing the Death Mask... and you think "this guy defeated all lords of shadow, and some colossal titans, and an army of monsters on his own, and now he's infused with semidivine power and pissed off. How the hell do you stop him?". I can picture the next game in the LoS continuity and playing a Belmont knowing he will have to eventually face Gabe/Dracula... good luck with that.

While I respect you're opinion on this matter we need to look at a very key fact. Gabriel has a full game based around his character. You control him the entire time. He's the star of his game. However, Mathias is only talked about and then comes in the very end of his game. Moreover, you can't play as him and he's not the hero. If he was the hero of LoI you could compare the two of them. Gabriel would fight titans, vampires, Satan, etc. Mathias(if he were the hero) would fight Medusa, Forgotten One, Walter, Death, etc. Comparing the two on what they did in their games doesn't make sense since one is the hero while the other only has a brief cameo at the end.

[Lumas]

Let me offer a theory of my own, now this is just theoretical and I personally believe los to be non cannon


As far as I know Gabriel becomes Dracula the ending shows this it also shows that he is a vampire. I don't think it shows him actually becoming a vampire so lets say this, he finds out he is actually a member of the Cronqvist family and thus takes his rightful birth name and changes his first name in order to try and move on from his past and separate himself from "Gabriel". He then finds out that the Cronqvists were prominent alchemist and becomes interested then later finds out that Rinaldo the man who created his weapon is also an alchemist and seeks him out. As it turns out Rinaldo has managed to keep his youth through the practicing of alchemy, i mean if we are talking vampires and other supernatural creatures its not beyond the scope of imagination that this would be a problem. During some time he meets elizabetha and later Leon a man bearing his former surname and thus becomes friends with him. During this time Elizabetha dies and Gabriel finally has enough he feels he has lost everything to God and thus is upset to say the least, his last chance at having love is taken from him and thus the events of lament. Now as far as far as the other characters like cornell and carmilla even walter stated that because of his powers he would return so it is, being cv has a lot the reincarnation thing going for it, quite possible and since Soma had no clue that he was the new incarnation of Dracula why not Cornell and Carmilla being they both were dark lords themselves?

Now this is just a theory and possibly has many plot holes so its whatever i believe that LoS isn't part of the cannon so I figured since we were on the topic of "cannon" i would add my own theory.

[Lumas]

Also to note as far as the sorrow games go if Zobek could free Gabriel why not do it? Why wait all this time to do it when he could go to Gabriel enlist him and crush Stans forces before any attempt at relatiation. Perhaps during his time amongst the living he met the Hakubas and found out that they had a means to put an end to him once and for all and free him of his immortality. Maybe at this point after all his failed attempts at dieing he just wanted to find peace so Zobek offers this chance to him. So they raise his Castle once more, the minions of Satan attacked while at the same time Julius and company do and the events of the demons castle war take place. Now with Dracula and Zobek gone the worlds balance is off and thus new Dark lords or Lords of Shadow are needed in order to correct the balance and thus Soma is born.

Again just a hair brain theory

[Nickavelli]

What haven't we seen so far in the series ? We have played as mutiple variations of Belmonts and the son of Dracula, but we havent had a chance to play as the man himself ....Dracula. I think Cox and the crew have set it up for the next game. I

[DragonSlayr81]

Castlevania: Dracula's Quest

[Ahasverus]

I think the DLC will feature Gabriel's corruption so we'll play as him... it will be somewhat akward you know, knowing he's Dracula himself 

[Lumas]

I think the DLC will feature Gabriel's corruption so we'll play as him... it will be somewhat akward you know, knowing he's Dracula himself 

Not gonna be awkward for me Ive been waiting to go kill shit as Dracula for long time muahahahaha

[GuyStarwind]

Although most people didn't care for it the fact still remains you can play Dracula in Judgment. However, people might not say it counts due to it being a fighting game.

[Kingshango]

Not gonna be awkward for me Ive been waiting to go kill shit as Dracula for long time muahahahaha

What's intresting about this is what's gonna be Dracula's fighting style since him using the combat cross is out of the question. I mean it would be akward to see the prince of darkness use a holy weapon let alone a whip.

I expect Dracula to have various weapons at his disposal now as well as the ability to fight bare handed since he wont be confined to one weapon, hey just like......Alucard.

Ok I think I might have an idea on what the DLC is gonna be.


 

[Lumas]

What's intresting about this is what's gonna be Dracula's fighting style since him using the combat cross is out of the question. I mean it would be akward to see the prince of darkness use a holy weapon let alone a whip.

I expect Dracula to have various weapons at his disposal now as well as the ability to fight bare handed since he wont be confined to one weapon, hey just like......Alucard.

Ok I think I might have an idea on what the DLC is gonna be.


 

Yes i agree but i wonder can they fit all the changes to the fighting in one DLC? I would think they can but that would be badass to play as him in his form as seen in the epilogue able to use various weapons. Personally as much as I hope for something like that I'm just gonna assume you'll play as regular gabriel and go through the process of becoming a vampire since it would be the laziest way of doing it.

[Valtiel]

What's intresting about this is what's gonna be Dracula's fighting style since him using the combat cross is out of the question. I mean it would be akward to see the prince of darkness use a holy weapon let alone a whip.

I expect Dracula to have various weapons at his disposal now as well as the ability to fight bare handed since he wont be confined to one weapon, hey just like......Alucard.

Ok I think I might have an idea on what the DLC is gonna be.


 

If we have to go by past games, he would use mostly magic. Which is good in Gabriel's case, because he masters both light and shadow magic during the game. It's not hard to imagine him becoming eventually so magically adept that he would stop using armor and weapons and just throw fireballs in your face, but that's probably building lore over 16 bit boss mechanics.

I think it's safe to assume Gabriel used knight weaponry (swords, spears, etc) before picking up the Combat Cross. As Dracula he could go back to that... but I wouldn't really hate him using a barbed-chain weapon. It's a new timeline, and it's a new generation of consoles - imagine Simon getting to him and after beating his first, magic-based form, Dracula smirks, summons a red armor from his blood (Gabe was wearing a red armor after all) and whips out a chainlike weapon. Vampire Killer vs Unholy Combat Cross. That fight would be the stuff of legend. Imagine the QTE (yeah yeah, everyone hates them) they could pull off.

[Valtiel]

Personally as much as I hope for something like that I'm just gonna assume you'll play as regular gabriel and go through the process of becoming a vampire since it would be the laziest way of doing it.

Implementing an entirely new combat system for multiple weapons that doesn't look childish compared to the frankly insanely complex combat system the game already has would warrant a new game.


As an unrelated note, something has been pestering me since last night.

Kojima.

I know, his involvement is limited, but at this point, CL:LoS is basically Metal Gear Solid 3.

I have visions now.

Castlevania: Simon's Revenge.

Simon gets arrested by the Inquisition and sent on a suicide mission to eliminate a traitorous Crusader who's assaulted a castle in Germany and took a few important nobles hostage. His only clue is that the guy's name is Liq... Liam Belmont.

I can already see it. "Brother! You've been fooled! All I want is our ancestor's body! We were magically cloned from him... Les Enfants Belmonts!" 

Stuff of nightmares.

[Zobias]

Its should have been obvious that Gabriel was going to become Dracula as Lords of Shadow was about Gabriels fall and the introduction of his master

[Inccubus]

I bet in some office somewhere in England, Cox is eating this cannon/non-cannon talk up like it were ambrosia itself.

[Valtiel]

I bet in some office somewhere in England, Cox is eating this cannon/non-cannon talk up like t were ambrosia itself.

Well I think it's more or less what he wanted; even in times when the games failed to deliver, the Castlevania community thrived on this kind of discussion. He certainly wants the LoS timeline to keep us busy speculating.