Topic: Lords of Shadow Opinions (has Spoilers)

[thernz]

Yamane purists? I thought most of the people here prefer the classic tunes and want a soundtrack of remixes (or at least more).

Also, I think rappelling across huge ravines and gothic castles where Gabriel can plummet a million feet any second is considered epic enough, Joachim~

[crisis]

"how did Ahasverus like castlevania before los"

[Munchy]

Honestly, coming back to it my main problem with LoS's soundtrack is that there isn't enough music. If there were actually stage specific themes, instead of just a set of three or four songs that cycle per death, it'd be far better. Of course, given the game's large variety of environments this would be pretty tough. But considering the vast amounts of music in other games, it's certainly not impossible.

"opinion fight: but this opinion has more value than yours!"

Yeah pretty much.

[Sindra]

Not you, but all the haters. They are better qualified that those yamane purists out there, they actually know what music is about, and I'm not talking about catchy tunes.

Ummm...catchy tunes is kind of what Castlevania is about, and it was long before Yamane came about. Vampire Killer, Bloody Tears, Beginning, etc.....they stuck with people for a reason. (and were reused alot as homage) Catchy=memorable. It's been a staple of Castlevania since the beginning. I could name songs from games I hadn't even played before because I stumbled upon them and they stuck. The kicker is that most of the retro soundtracks from the older games had to deal with the limitation of the NES, Gameboy, and so-on's sound processors, and had to make simple catchy tunes to make up for the limits.

Lords of Shadow had a grand orchestra and choir and everything today's tech has to offer, and 90% of the soundtrack is generic and forgettable. This is the composer's folly. There seems to be too much of an emphasis on making things atmospheric and not enough focus on making simple, memorable melody.

This episode of Extra Credits sums it all up perfectly:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2019-Videogame-Music

[crisis]

Sindra pretty much hit the nail on the head, the classic music is catchy for a reason. God I hope Cox & co. are still reading these threads

[Richter]

I agree, the 2 - 3 main tunes were perfect in LOS, but they were used for the whole game and not 2 - 3 levels. Some good simple themes arranged nicely with piano and a few string instruments, maybe building up to full orchestral would have been perfection.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Is it weird that one of my favorite tunes is the Music Box one?  >.>

[Ahasverus]

You are missing the point, that's not what music is about, go and make a proffessional musician say that Bloody Tears is a masterpiece and he will laugh in your face (Then probably punch you) now make a professional musician listen to LoS music and watch their reactions, because that's real music, not the music you hear in radio and stuff, but music as art; I won't discuss this anymore, I think I'm wasting my time if you are not real musicians (not arrangers nor remixers, ACADEMIC musicians) and your mind is completely closed. Melodies are in there, they are hummable as ever, but if you can't listen through more than 3 chords, I'm done.

BTW, I doubt Cox is going to change his mind about music, it was him who posted soundtrack.net review after all...

[Sindra]

Uhh...you're not talking to musicians. (most of us, anyway) We don't CARE about what other great composers think. We know what we want. We're the fans, and we know that themes on Bloody Tears, whilst not a great example of musical composure, works for us because of the simplicity and the catchiness. Who cares if some Mr. So-And-So the Great Magical Musician God says is sucks horsey bollocks. It's worked for most of us for two decades.

REAL music? That's totally subjective material. You are totally entitled to your opinion that Los's music is grand. However I'm saying it didn't tickle my fancy, and gave reasons as to why. I'm saying it because it seems to be an argument that alot of other fans are having.

[Harrycombs]

Generic soundtrack? My balls
http://www.soundtrack.net/albums/database/?id=6300

lol. There opinion is wrong then.

The soundtrack was a bunch of generic hollywood crap with no semblance of originality. Its a disgrace to this series. The only thing I absolute hope is that Arajou never, ever comes back. His music feels so mechanical and methodical and boring..

You are missing the point, that's not what music is about, go and make a proffessional musician say that Bloody Tears is a masterpiece and he will laugh in your face (Then probably punch you) now make a professional musician listen to LoS music and watch their reactions, because that's real music, not the music you hear in radio and stuff, but music as art; I won't discuss this anymore, I think I'm wasting my time if you are not real musicians (not arrangers nor remixers, ACADEMIC musicians) and your mind is completely closed. Melodies are in there, they are hummable as ever, but if you can't listen through more than 3 chords, I'm done.

BTW, I doubt Cox is going to change his mind about music, it was him who posted soundtrack.net review after all...

First off, all music is art. To say otherwise is pure ignorance of the definition of art (something that evokes an emotion). And if you don't think arrangers or remixers are musicians, then you are missing out on a lot of great music.

I've said it before, but go look at Yasunori Mitsuda. He is a classically trained musician like you think is necessary to be good and the guy is incredible. His music can also be incredibly catchy whenever he wants it to be. He has infinitely more talent than someone like Araujo, as well as much greater range, and his Celtic music is incredible.

And musicians who would call Lords of Shadow's soundtrack a masterpiece are terrible musicians. Can it really stand up to anything by John Williams? Be honest. On top of that, the vast majority of western music is absolute crap. They should start looking to great, progressive musicians like Susumu Hirasawa and stop looking to their musical theory textbooks... At Anime Boston recently, Nobuo Uematsu said that the most important part of game music is focusing on individuality and making "something no one has ever heard before." Arajou didn't even attempt to make him music have any individuality. You could literally paste the soundtrack into any game and have it fit.

And finally, no one here thinks Bloody Tears is a masterpiece. But its a part of the series and its soul, and thats why fans want to hear it again.

And by your definition, are YOU a real musician? What gives you the right to judge who is a real musician and who is not? Aren't those people over at OC remix infinitely more qualified than you when it comes to music?

[Sindra]

Quality is in the eye of the...er....listener? To say one person is more qualified than another leads to a slippery slope, because it makes it sound like "Oh, I have a Masters Degree in Music Theory, therefore I'm 10x more qualified on knowing what's good music than you are!" Gotta be careful.

It's a matter of knowing what we like. I again encourage watching that Extra Credits video I posted the link. It sums up the evolution of video game music perfectly, and how Castlevania music then and now is effected. I don't think Mr. Arajou needs to be taken off a future Castlevania, more so that he should go back and listen to all the past game soundtracks from the first game onwards to get a really good feel of how the game music has stayed to a good portion of its roots from CV1 on.

[Joachim]

Not you, but all the haters. They are better qualified that those yamane purists out there, they actually know what music is about, and I'm not talking about catchy tunes.

I want to specify that that isn't entirely my point (if you're even asserting that's the case); It isn't' about catchiness, or even how melodic something is; sometimes, it works. I appreciate atmospheric and minimalistic music, I appreciate music that focuses more energy on emotion and feeling rather than just melody. ICO has several minimalistic ambient pieces, all of which I enjoy; much of Battlestar Galactica's music edges closer to minimalism or incredibly rythmic percussion (although the later seasons develop a fuller sound with more in the way of melody-driven music), and those are soundtracks that I adore (mostly).

I'm not really talking about bloody tears or anything; those are cool songs, but "cool" is about as far as that extends. I'm simply saying that it doesn't fit it's context all that well, and its sound (which it attempts to define itself by) is far from interesting. Yes, there are some good songs in here; waterfalls of agharta, swamp troll, besieged village and castle entrance, for example.

Its individual songs are not consistent enough between themselves, and the soundtrack as a whole suffers from the exact opposite: it is too consistent.

I would much rather listen to Mozart, or Beethoven, or Bach, or Debussy or even Koichi Sugiyama than I would Oscar Araujo.

Also, I think rappelling across huge ravines and gothic castles where Gabriel can plummet a million feet any second is considered epic enough, Joachim~

sorry thernz he was only TEN FEET off the ground.


sidenote: I hate this post, it is horribly constructed and written.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I see someone is using Appeal to Authority.

Sorry, but trying to appeal to authority on a subject as... er... subjective as Music and Art is an exercise in futility.  Also, kudos on belittling anyone who uses music by not calling them a 'real' musician.  Bad form, man.  Bad form.

By the way, I guess you got 'musician' confused with 'composer'.  For someone who is into this, one would think you would get at least the lingo correctly.  I guess anyone who is in a band isn't a musician.  Or anyone who plays a musical instrument, either...
I advise you to choose your authoritative words wisely, in order to not come off as a pompous asshole.

Listen, Ahasverus...

I know you love the game.  You love it so much you're blinded.  We see this.  We hope you see this as well.  However... You're behaving exactly like how Affinity does when people talk about Harmony of Despair.
I want you to think about that.

[Ahasverus]

Hell no! At least I hate the camera and the Chupacabras... that's something on my favor over Affinity
Ok I'll shut up then . Let's discuss the Simon's Quest remake or something, I mean, there's nothing new in the saga and this forum is getting all "I love IGA" "I hate IGA" "I'm neutral" "LoS is shit" and "LoS is the shit". I think we could do it better then?

[uzo]

*waves flags with the names "Jorge" "Sindra" and "Harrycombs"*

Go team!