Topic: Mega Man Topic

[Flame]

Because I was clogging up the Legends 3 topic with pointless quarreling over the use of the word canon.

So consider this the Castlevania forum's official Mega man discussion thread.

'for all your canon arguing needs'

[Inccubus]

I know this about Mega Man canon; Capcom considers anything they officially license as canon with or without contradictions.

[Flame]

That certainly is not true.

the only thing they have ever licensed and is considered canon is the bandai carddas series, the Rockman X Megamissions.

Which are even then only considered semi-canon. (however that works) but which conflict slightly with a few official facts.

for one, it establishes Doppler as an enemy right before X3, that and it contradicts Dr. light's statements in X5 that he cannot give Zero armor due to not understanding his structure, by GIVING him armor.

other than that, they in no way make anything they license canon.

[X]

I know this about Mega Man canon; Capcom considers anything they officially license as canon with or without contradictions.

They had Zero from MMZ in one of their MvsC games. Does that make it canon?

-X

[Flame]

Definitely not. it is something that does not impact the actual games and their story at all. In the timeline, that doesnt happen.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

What about the allusion to Zero in the "MegaMan: The Power Fighters" Bass ending?

[Inccubus]

the only thing they have ever licensed and is considered canon is the bandai carddas series, the Rockman X Megamissions.
... other than that, they in no way make anything they license canon.

This is patently false. Capcom even considers the licensed Chinese games as canon officially.

... Which are even then only considered semi-canon. (however that works) but which conflict slightly with a few official facts.
for one, it establishes Doppler as an enemy right before X3, that and it contradicts Dr. light's statements in X5 that he cannot give Zero armor due to not understanding his structure, by GIVING him armor. ...

I don't know if you guys have noticed, but Capcom isn't exactly big on continuity anyway. The above is a great example of that.
They don't seem to care to box themselves in and will contradict passed canon with impunity which is of course their right as the owners of the franchise. I think this is actually a pretty good way to handle 'canon' since they can leave the details to the players.

Incidentally, there's no such thing as semi-canon. Facts presented in a work can either be contradictory or not they can't be 'sort of' contradictory or 'sort of' congruent.

They had Zero from MMZ in one of their MvsC games. Does that make it canon?

-X

Definitely not. it is something that does not impact the actual games and their story at all. In the timeline, that doesnt happen.

You mean "SvC Chaos".
Of course it is. My contention is that everything they make they consider canon.
Also, not having an impact on the main Zero story doesn't automatically make it non-canon in any sense.

What about the allusion to Zero in the "MegaMan: The Power Fighters" Bass ending?

That's not even a licensed game. It's officially part of the classic series.
It is very much canon as it was one of the ways in which Capcom told us that Wily made Zero.

[Flame]

What about the allusion to Zero in the "MegaMan: The Power Fighters" Bass ending?

That game was an arcade game made by Capcom, as part of the classic series. Both were later released doubled I think- As a PS2 game.

his is patently false. Capcom even considers the licensed Chinese games as canon officially.

Which are those?
Do you mean Rockman & Forte 2: Challenger From the Future?

I don't know if you guys have noticed, but Capcom isn't exactly big on continuity anyway.

I never would have figured that. Just that they suck at storytelling.

The above is a great example of that.
They don't seem to care to box themselves in and will contradict passed canon with impunity which is of course their right as the owners of the franchise. I think this is actually a pretty good way to handle 'canon' since they can leave the details to the players.

Incidentally, there's no such thing as semi-canon. Facts presented in a work can either be contradictory or not they can't be 'sort of' contradictory or 'sort of' congruent.

Semi-canon is a work that contains varying degrees of canon, according to the writers.

Keep in mind the Megamissions card series was made by Bandai, not Capcom, but adheres t the games as a side story. For the most part, it fits in pretty well, there are just a few contradicting facts and little things that are not capcom made and are thus considered not part of the games canon. For example, Ikksu/Return X. He has NEVER been referenced outside of the megamissions. Not even in source material.

Of course it is. My contention is that everything they make they consider canon.

it's certainly not canon to the games timeline though. that's for sure. Unless you can prove me otherwise.

[Joachim]

Capcom even considers the licensed Chinese games as canon officially.

Which titles fall under "licensed Chinese games"? And can you provide a source of that statement?

Capcom does have a fairly good approach to the series, though; its time line is capable of evolving, and the few times it does make a move to box itself in, it does so vaguely enough that it doesn't really limit what the individual titles can do.

[Flame]

They don't seem to care to box themselves in and will contradict passed canon

Oh, by the by, before it comes up, because I can SEE where this is going, the X5 and X6 argument is not valid.

I can see where that is going. I have SEEN it go there before.

"Oh Inafune wanted to end the series at X5, but behind his back, Capcom made X6, forcing him to rewrite the Zero series"

let me just say Inafune did not OWN the Mega Man series. I'll clarify with this quote from a very knowledgeable Rockman fan, who despide not liking the label, is often considered a Guru on the subject

Inafune is by origin a "character designer", his job is not "writer" or "scenario". He only took on a scenario/writer role with X, and even then he was limited by his superior and always gladly accepted input for his colleagues; especially in his days as producer did he leave the story up to the imagination of others. Remember that Rockman is and will always be a team effort; "Capcom" is the author, not any single member of the team.

Capcom can do what they please with the franchise. And X5 would have been a TERRIBLE place to end the series.
 

[Inccubus]

Which are those?
Do you mean Rockman & Forte 2: Challenger From the Future?

Which titles fall under "licensed Chinese games"? And can you provide a source of that statement?

Rockman & Forte 2 is a Japanese title developed by Bandai under license by Capcom.

Rockman Strategy (The Rockman War) http://www.themechanicalmaniacs.com/articles/RMSLG.php
Rockman Gold Empire http://themechanicalmaniacs.com/articles/RMGE.php

These are both officially licensed Capcom games that were made exclusively for China.
I'd like to also point out that Rockman Online is an officially licensed game being made in Korea.

To the best of my knowledge the only two games that Capcom has licensed and officially disavowed as canon are the 2 US PC games 'Megaman' & 'Megaman III'.

And since I'm saying that licensing is evidence of canonical status let me make mention of two classic Mega Man games that were licensed by Capcom and made by a different studio; "Megaman 9" & "Megaman 10".

[Flame]

Rockman Strategy (The Rockman War) http://www.themechanicalmaniacs.com/articles/RMSLG.php
Rockman Gold Empire http://themechanicalmaniacs.com/articles/RMGE.php

These are both officially licensed Capcom games that were made exclusively for China.
I'd like to also point out that Rockman Online is an officially licensed game being made in Korea.

That doesnt mean they are part of the Rockman canon. Licensed is just that. Licensed. Licensed is not synonymous with canon.

Rockman Online thus far is really the only ambiguous one, as it seems to try and adhere to the timeline, while making it's own branch. It seems to be an alternate branch of the X series where it leads to Online instead of Rockman Zero.

Its a large ambitious project with a complex story, but it is interesting because it mentions that Cinnamon in online has visions of "Neo Arcadia".

Cinnamon apparently has visions of a fabled Neo Arcadia where humans and Reploids live side by side. Largely believed to be a side effect of the Force Metal, Duo however, believes these visions might hold some truth.

Which is an interesting thought.

But it has yet to be confirmed canon or not.

Also, i hope you dont take too much stock in what gauntlet says over at mechanical maniacs. Considering Gauntlet also prefers to keep two continuities. A japanese Continuity, and an American Continuity.

A flawed concept which is simply not possible, and never was. There is only ONE continuity,and a badly localized one.

EDIT:

Rockman & Forte 2 is a Japanese title developed by Bandai under license by Capcom.

Except simply by the name alone, RnF 2 is canon. And it is acknowledged as such too.

[Inccubus]

Oh, by the by, before it comes up, because I can SEE where this is going, the X5 and X6 argument is not valid.

I can see where that is going. I have SEEN it go there before.

"Oh Inafune wanted to end the series at X5, but behind his back, Capcom made X6, forcing him to rewrite the Zero series"

let me just say Inafune did not OWN the Mega Man series. I'll clarify with this quote from a very knowledgeable Rockman fan, who despide not liking the label, is often considered a Guru on the subject

Capcom can do what they please with the franchise. And X5 would have been a TERRIBLE place to end the series.
 

That's not even relevant to the argument of canon, except as an example of canon material contradicting itself at times.

That doesnt mean they are part of the Rockman canon. Licensed is just that. Licensed. Licensed is not synonymous with canon.

Rockman Online thus far is really the only ambiguous one, as it seems to try and adhere to the timeline, while making it's own branch. It seems to be an alternate branch of the X series where it leads to Online instead of Rockman Zero.

Its a large ambitious project with a complex story, but it is interesting because it mentions that Cinnamon in online has visions of "Neo Arcadia".

Which is an interesting thought.

But it has yet to be confirmed canon or not.

In the absence of an official statement by the copyright holder of an officially licensed and approved product being or not being canon it then logically follows that the fact that the product was licensed and approved is evidence of status as canon material.

Also, i hope you dont take too much stock in what gauntlet says over at mechanical maniacs. Considering Gauntlet also prefers to keep two continuities. A japanese Continuity, and an American Continuity.

A flawed concept which is simply not possible, and never was. There is only ONE continuity,and a badly localized one.

And I suppose someone can't have a misconception about one thing without everything else being a misconception? Don't be so absolutist.
We do agree on one thing, the dual continuity thing is pretty absurd. There's no evidence that Capcom intended this.



To the best of my knowledge the only official time-line for the extended series was in Rockman Perfect Memories (resource book).
It did not say that any titles are NOT canon, but then again, it doesn't explicitly say any ARE canon. ( It actually doesn't mention any specific titles anyway, it only outlines the relation between the various sub-series.)
The only known titles known to be excluded from canon OFFICIALLY BY CAPCOM are the 2 US pc games and all pirated materials.

[Flame]

That's not even relevant to the argument of canon, except as an example of canon material contradicting itself at times.

Was just throwin' it out there before it comes up. And I dont see how that contributes to the argument of canon material contradicting itself...

In the absence of an official statement by the copyright holder of an officially licensed and approved product being or not being canon it then logically follows that the fact that the product was licensed and approved is evidence of status as canon material.

I would actually assume the opposite. It is a korean exclusive, with no word on whether Japan will ever get it, and with a pretty solid assumption that if Japan isnt getting it, the US never will either. It would be odd to make a canon material that is exclusive to a completely random country, more specifically, not the country of the property's origin.

If it gets a Japan release, then we can start talking canon with this game.

Although either way, the fact that it splits into it's own timeline means it doesnt really even HAVE to be considered canon or not, since it doesnt contradict with anything. Im certain that as more info on the game surfaces, we'll eventually get our answer.

And I suppose someone can't have a misconception about one thing without everything else being a misconception? Don't be so absolutist.

Gauntlet, (and others) INSIST over the matter.

over at Rockman Perfect memories, there was an entire TOPIC on the argument.
I'll just drop this here...

[Warning: Fandom arguing over a videogame like it's SRS BSNSS]

We do agree on one thing, the dual continuity thing is pretty absurd. There's no evidence that Capcom intended this.

they dont. Many of the Localization errors in story are fixed in games further down the line, and after 7 and X3, there seems to be a completely new localization team that actually tries to do good by the story. Even powered up fixed the localized backstory.

The only known titles known to be excluded from canon OFFICIALLY BY CAPCOM are the 2 US pc games and all pirated materials.

And those other games you mentioned. Rockman strategy and Rockman Gold.

They have never been referenced at all.

Not even R20/Mega Man Official Complete works recognizes them. It recognizes however, 1-8, the arcade games, the Gameboy/GBA games, the wonderswan game, and soccer. (and Im certain theres 1 or two more.)

[X]

That's not even a licensed game. It's officially part of the classic series.
It is very much canon as it was one of the ways in which Capcom told us that Wily made Zero.

I did like this ending. It gave us some more info about Zero's origins. That and the fact that Bass (Forte) was a prototype to Zero himself. However Bass was rather independent and somewhat unstable eventhough he followed Wily's orders. Not liking this behavior in Bass, Wily then built Zero who was the final and perfect product. Bass didn't agree with this and even told Wily his feelings on the subject, even bragged about how nothing, not even Zero could hope to compete with him. This is what I esentually got out of that ending.

-X