Topic: Why did they take out Sonia from the series

[Flame]

Maybe its derrived from the Latin Draco? Which I think DOES mean dragon.

[KaZudra]

Interesting Factoid,
Vlad IV or Vlad Călugărul is known as Vlad the Monk
He is the Half Brother of Vlad III aka Vlad Dracula.

Factoid 2
Gabriel Spoke "Eu Sunt Dracul" Which Translates to either roughly "I am the Dragon" or Literal "I am Devil"
this could imply that may be the representation of Vlad II Dracul aka Vlad the Devil.
but since the cutscene applied that it was modern day, it was probably a mistranslation of tying to say "Eu sunt Dracula", "I am the Son of the Dragon/Devil"

Factoid 3
Dracul Means Devil and Dracu' means Hell, Drac Also means Devil and oddly enough Dracula has no translation

[Sonic_Reaper]

Interesting Factoid,
Vlad IV or Vlad Călugărul is known as Vlad the Monk
He is the Half Brother of Vlad III aka Vlad Dracula.

Factoid 2
Gabriel Spoke "Eu Sunt Dracul" Which Translates to either roughly "I am the Dragon" or Literal "I am Devil"
this could imply that may be the representation of Vlad II Dracul aka Vlad the Devil.
but since the cutscene applied that it was modern day, it was probably a mistranslation of tying to say "Eu sunt Dracula", "I am the Son of the Dragon/Devil"

Factoid 3
Dracul Means Devil and Dracu' means Hell, Drac Also means Devil and oddly enough Dracula has no translation

It's not odd at all, and explains pretty well in my post.  Simple enough, a butchering throughout history of the original meaning and origin of the name, which probably came from his enemies, and has little to no connection to how he was viewed by his followers, and to the Romanian language.

Maybe its derrived from the Latin Draco? Which I think DOES mean dragon.

As far as I know, there's no word in Latin for dragon.  There is a word for devil, but it's diabolus. 

The word dragon itself historically related to a snake or serpent.  the ACTUAL one, not satan or the devil.  Like a water serpent, for example.  In Greek, it is Drakon, from which the word dragon is derived.  By that point in history, and especially in Romania (Orthodox), associating the Greek word, drakon (drac) with satan, also known as the serpent from the bible, wasn't a big stretch.  Especially since the word dragon had no meaning to the Romanian people, nor did it relate to anything in their history or culture.

Literature, like with Dracula himself, took that word and created the fantasy word "dragon" that we know today, and associated with giant made-up creatures that don't really resemble anything beyond giant lizards.

I really wish people would do their research and stop pulling things out of their butts.

I apologize if I am coming off as anal, but this really does bother me.  Especially when people come along and say things which clearly have no backing, or take whatever an uneducated GAME developer pushes as fact.  They can't even be bothered to get the phrase right, for Gabriel declaring himself Dracula or the Devil.  I wouldn't be surprised if they threw it through some online translator.

Anyway, big digression from the original topic.  And I apologize again, because I am being somewhat hypocritical.  I mean, it's their fiction, the developers can do whatever they want.  History won't be effected, nor will the litaruture that inspired it, however loosely.  I'm acting no better than the people fighting over the timeline "correction" in this thread.  From my findings, it seems likely that Vlad was referred to as the devil, or associated with the devil, and that was probably a nickname granted to him by his enemies, who were of a different historical, and more importantly, language background.  Whenever I've spoken to family members from Romania familiar with Vlad, they always referred to him as Vlad Tepes, and would laugh when I called him Dracula.

[KaZudra]

Original meaning of Dracul being Dragon then changed by CATHOLIC Churches to associate with Devil.
Very, VERY Believable since the Devil is represented by a serpent and later a Dragon in the Bible.
and Granting how old the Romanian Culture is, words will change meaning over time.

Like the word Romantic has two meanings
The Romantic Meaning or gay would associate with Joy
As the modern meaning is associated with homosexuals.

The word Dracul is no exception.

[Sonic_Reaper]

Original meaning of Dracul being Dragon then changed by CATHOLIC Churches to associate with Devil.
Very, VERY Believable since the Devil is represented by a serpent and later a Dragon in the Bible.
and Granting how old the Romanian Culture is, words will change meaning over time.

Like the word Romantic has two meanings
The Romantic Meaning or gay would associate with Joy
As the modern meaning is associated with homosexuals.

The word Dracul is no exception.

It is an exception.  You can find some old ass words in Romanian dictionaries.  My mom has one from her highschool days, and that word is nowhere to be found.  There are extensive dictionaries online too, and again, nothing.  You also don't address the fact that the naming convention follows Russia, and other similar language, rules.  "Of the devil" would be Dracului.  Nevermind that it just isn't a word in the Romanian language.

The word drac, however, has always been around, and has been associated with the devil since it came into use.  It never changed with the Roman Catholic Church, that's absurd.  It's used specially to relate to the devil and of hellish things.

[KaZudra]

It is an exception.  You can find some old ass words in Romanian dictionaries.  My mom has one from her highschool days, and that word is nowhere to be found.  There are extensive dictionaries online too, and again, nothing.  You also don't address the fact that the naming convention follows Russia, and other similar language, rules.  "Of the devil" would be Dracului.  Nevermind that it just isn't a word in the Romanian language.

The word drac, however, has always been around, and has been associated with the devil since it came into use.  It never changed with the Roman Catholic Church, that's absurd.  It's used specially to relate to the devil and of hellish things.

Granting that all or most Romanian words deriving from drac is either associated with the Devil and Hell, Evil in tense (since evil is Raul)
Dracul Translates to Dragon, but is associated with the Devil, to my understanding, but Dracul's meaning eventaully became Devil
That's what I make of it.

[Sonic_Reaper]

Please show me where you're finding that "dracul" means dragon.

I just find it very odd that it's "old" meaning is not included in dictionaries.  Actually, it doesn't exist at all.  Dictionaries will include archaic definitions of words that have fallen out of use.  It should be especially true in this case, since "drac", and it's subsidiaries are used quite often in Romanian, especially today.

I also wanted to add from earlier that the Roman Catholic Church has been around for ... a long time.  Way-hay before Vlad's time.  I'm talking like 1000 years.  The word drac, and all it's associations, would have already made the connection to the devil, via the mention of Satan as a serpent.  I just don't buy it.

And again, please show me some proof where dracul means dragon.  There are three words in the Romanian language that mean dragon, and one's its namesake, the others are zmeu (I've heard this one used, to reference mystical creatures in books, so it must date back quite a bit, these stories have been handed down for generations, of which my mom owned a copy of such a children's book) and balaur, which I've never heard used.

And here's one final nugget that really throws a monkey's wrench into the equation, granted it's from Wikipedia, but from a credible source's mouth (if it is to be believed),

Dennis McIntyre, director of The Stoker Dracula Organisation believes the word Dracula comes from the Irish 'Droch Ola' which means bad blood.

If that is the case, I wasn't too far off, however, this seems even less likely, because Dracula does indeed sound like a Slavic name.  And Romanian people are familiar with it, so it must have existed in some capacity during Vlad's time.

[KaZudra]

Please show me where you're finding that "dracul" means dragon.

I just find it very odd that it's "old" meaning is not included in dictionaries.  Actually, it doesn't exist at all.  Dictionaries will include archaic definitions of words that have fallen out of use.  It should be especially true in this case, since "drac", and it's subsidiaries are used quite often in Romanian, especially today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_II_Dracul
Vlad II (c. 1393 – December 1447), known as Vlad Dracul ("Vlad the Dragon"),
"Vlad II received the surname Dracul in 1431, after being inducted into the Order of the Dragon, founded in 1410 by Sigismund, the Holy Roman Emperor, as part of a design to gain political favor for the Catholic Church and to aid in protecting Wallachia against the Ottoman Empire."
Also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_III_the_Impaler

[Sonic_Reaper]

See my above post.

I've read the entry you posted, as well as the one for Vlad III.  Contradictions all over!  I don't know if I can seriously site Wikipedia as a credible source.  The naming conventions in the Wikipedia entry for Vlad III make sense though, if the surname was Dracul, Draculea would be "one of the Dracul".  I'm still not convinced on the name and it's meaning.  Even if they had associations with the order or dragons, which Wikipedia pulls out of it's butt to call the Latin meaning for dragon, though it's derision from Greek is correct, however, in Greek, the word refers again, to a serpent.  I'm just running circles here.

Another nugget; the "order of the dragons" originally had no name associated to it.  But alas, I am probably just thinking myself into a corner here, and the word probably just means all and every definition put on the table.  I see that as being entirely likely, considering that dual, triple, and so on meanings are popular in every language.

[KaZudra]

Multiple sources... just about every Google Link to the Search "Vlad II Dracul" comes up Dragon, but one Does State the double meaning.
His Followers know him as Dragon as his enemies know him as Devil.

somewhere in http://www.donlinke.com/drakula/vlad.htm
Its not rare to have double meaning words, so I'm gonna so with it.

[Sonic_Reaper]

That is probably the case, though I find it strange that in Romanian dictionaries, there is no entry to dragon, under drac.  It has it's own word.  Don't you find that strange?  It seems to follow another country, language or culture's naming convention.  After all, in those times, it was not uncommon for Romania to converse with a variety of other surrounding countries.  It would still stand however that to Romanian speaking people, his name would have meant the devil, since drac would not have been associated, at least in Romanian, to dragons at that time.  The only connection I can think of is Greek.  But you're probably right, it would have been a popular name with his enemies.  I looked up dragon in Russian, it's drakon.  Devil is enyergehney ... wtf, lol.

[Mystic Myotis]

Lament of Innocence was a complete disgrace to Dracula and Castlevania, it both fucked up the already setup mythos and the flow of its own timeline.

I was under the impression that LoI was implying that Matthias ended up assuming the identity of Vlad III, but as to whether or not LoI is a disgrace... well, it's no more or less so than Legends in my view, at least, and it actually establishes the two primary entities (five if you count the castle, whip, and Death). *shrugs*

[Nagumo]

KONAMI Akumajo Dracula official time line version July 31, 2000

Seems the 1450 date originated a bit earlier then I thought. The timeline that says Legends takes place in the 15th century is also from 2000. It's from Dengeki Playstation Magazine. 

[KaZudra]

That is probably the case, though I find it strange that in Romanian dictionaries, there is no entry to dragon, under drac.  It has it's own word.  Don't you find that strange?  It seems to follow another country, language or culture's naming convention.  After all, in those times, it was not uncommon for Romania to converse with a variety of other surrounding countries.  It would still stand however that to Romanian speaking people, his name would have meant the devil, since drac would not have been associated, at least in Romanian, to dragons at that time.  The only connection I can think of is Greek.  But you're probably right, it would have been a popular name with his enemies.  I looked up dragon in Russian, it's drakon.  Devil is enyergehney ... wtf, lol.

HIGHLY likely Since Modern English is a Combination of Old English and Old French and a Hint of everything else During the Anglo-Saxons Time.

[X]

Seems the 1450 date originated a bit earlier then I thought. The timeline that says Legends takes place in the 15th century is also from 2000. It's from Dengeki Playstation Magazine. 

Legends was released in 1998. So before the above mentioned timeline, the one I heard had to have been established sometime after the game came out and just before July 31, 2000. I find the original timeline seems to make the series easier to have legends fit in even if the story is contradictory. But I also believe that when CoD came out then that was it. 1476 became CVIII's date of events made things even more complicated then need-be.

In terms of the Serpent or Dragon being a thing of evil, that's just church propaganda thrust into the arms of an illiterate society as the serpent is an ancient symbol meaning fertility and creation which like the swastika, can be found all over the world. The devil on the other hand is the church's brainchild. A fear educing tactic. You could even argue that it's the earliest form of terrorism known to man. If there is a reference somewhere about the meaning of Dracula I'd be interested to know too. Everything I've seen so-far points to the double-meaning but more often the naught I find it means Dragon. So if there's a site out there that's legitimate on this I wish to see it. On another note Jorge hasn't closed the thread down so I wonder if he finds this argument somewhat engaging..?