Topic: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

So?

So?

So my point is that it would probably be a better idea to let some other developer have a crack at a Castlevania game.

I thought I made that much obvious.

Like I said there are fans of LOS (like you) who will defend to the end that it is indeed a good CV game.

And then there are fans (like me) who do not think of it as a proper CV game.

That is just the way things are.

People have differing opinions.

But I think the division between the fanbase can only hurt further LOS sales.

Thats why the best thing to do would be to see how some other developer handles the Castlevania name.

[crisis]

Eye for won believe that it's entirely possible to have another developer create a game that does Castlevania justice so that it pleases everyone, the formula for the classics is not broken and metroidvania can see glory once again if done right, in a way that no one's offended. I don't know why Konami can't realize this.

That's why I'm hoping MercurySteam adds a lot more traditional elements, if they studied the N64 vanias that woulda helped tremendously

[cecil-kain]

So? It's always happens when series change itself.
It's impossible to always retreading the same thread and pleasing everyone. Someone will be disappointed anyway no matter what Konami will do. They create another "metroidvania" - people will hate the same old concept. They create something new - people will hate that it's not repetition of the past formula. With such logic it's simplier for series to just die already, since it's impossible to please several groups of fans at the same time. Especially given how rich history of CV was and how many major and minor chnages series had over the years.

And besides, like it or not, but series must change. It's a given. It's impossible to create games and cought the same spirit as 10 years ago. Understanbly someone will be displeased, but games created for money first and foremost, not for relatively small bunch of people who think that this is art or something.
And I don't think that creators will be plaeased themself to rercreate one and the same game over and over.

I don't know of anyone here that plays Castlevania for the sake of recycled "cookie-cutter" experiences.  Change is expected -particularly- in the form of improving production values --and that is the heart of the matter.  Let's look at Hollywood for just a moment...  How many times was the Dracula story successfully refilmed for a new generation?  Each of those classic movies reflected change in their time.  And though many took certain stylistic liberties, they respected the Bram Stoker Novel.  Lords of Shadow is devisive because the change it delivers offends many fans' views on Castlevania.  Would Mercury Steam's work have been any less impressive without the Castlevania branding?  "Bait and switch" can certainly boost the sales, but that doesn't necessarily translate into happy customers.

[C Belmont]

And besides, like it or not, but series must change. It's a given. It's impossible to create games and cought the same spirit as 10 years ago

I disagree, the spirit of the Mario & Zelda games has remained mostly consistent through the years & look how popular they are.
Castlevania has done change, it's had too much change in my opinion - It's changed heroes, it's changed art styles, it's changed gameplay. What it really needs is consistency, rebooting the series is just more change.

[Renonsgoods]

So?

So my point is that it would probably be a better idea to let some other developer have a crack at a Castlevania game.

I thought I made that much obvious.

Like I said there are fans of LOS (like you) who will defend to the end that it is indeed a good CV game.

And then there are fans (like me) who do not think of it as a proper CV game.

That is just the way things are.

People have differing opinions.

But I think the division between the fanbase can only hurt further LOS sales.

Thats why the best thing to do would be to see how some other developer handles the Castlevania name.

I don't know how anyone can lay this at LoS' feet, though.  The fanbase has been splintered to hell and back since SotN.  If anything, Konami and MS made up some ground with LoS by bringing in a fresh crop of fans.  THAT'S what change does.  It attracts new-comers to a long winded series by injecting it with a fresh approach. Yea, yea,  I know...us old timers don't like TOO much change.  I hear ya.  But that's just the way it is. 

I still think LoS2 has a legit chance of making up for the first game's less-CV like approach if they inject more traditional CV elements into the gameplay and clean up the action bits (less shimmying, more analog platforming, less arena combat, better or fewer puzzles, less or no QTE's).  And given how well LoS did in sales compared to previous 3DVanias I see no harm in letting MS give it another shot.  I'm sure I get labeled as a "LoS fanboi" for making such statements, but in reality I'm just recognizing potential...rather than just taking to outright disillusionment.

[DragonSlayr81]

I disagree, the spirit of the Mario & Zelda games has remained mostly consistent through the years & look how popular they are.
Castlevania has done change, it's had too much change in my opinion - It's changed heroes, it's changed art styles, it's changed gameplay. What it really needs is consistency, rebooting the series is just more change.

Actually, you're right. Not all games need change. People tend to use evolution to justify change. But look at life, some creatures haven't evolved much, and are fine the way they are. Hell, cockroaches have stayed the same for millions of years, and they'll probably outlast us humans, the most evolved species on the planet. Nature spits in the face of those who say EVERYTHING has to change. Some change is good, don't get me wrong, but it would be foolish to expect EVERYTHING to change just for the sake of it.

[Renonsgoods]

The thing I'm really interested in knowing is this: how much change did Konami mandate during the LoS' development?  Seems unusual that that game would have started off as a retelling of Simon's first adventure only to end up something so completely different.  So who was to blame?  Did Cox and his team just say "Eff it", and stab off in a random direction after being tasked with the Simon game?  Or did Konami big wigs say "Hey, make it more like that God of War game....and try not to make it too Castlevania-like so we don't scare off new fans".

I dunno.  I enjoyed LoS for what it was, largely because I liked the way Gabriel handled business with the Combat Cross.  But I'd have given anything to hear some familiar tunes or see some more familiar monsters.  That would have made the rest of the less desirable elements acceptable to me....even the dreaded QTE's.  The whole issue with the new plot doesn't bother me, and I find it amusing that so many people here condemn the game on that issue alone.  I've never played a CV game for its story, largely because the story is usually either nonexistent or it is completely laughable.  At worst, LoS simply fails to break with tradition there IMO.

[jestercolony]

Lords of Shadow was an excellent attempt at a CV title imo. The only issue for is that I only felt i wasn't a true title because it had been missing certain elements...  I may have to start a new topic on the subject; but LoS2 is a 100% given confirmation; as for the other title, I am slightly curious.

MS's engine is excellent; but it still needs to be worked on. The system is so easy enough to crash that it isn't even funny. Beautiful, but buggy. I for one wish to see where this company will take it. Retro Studios (please some correct me if I am wrong.) as I heard of them (they did one hell of a fantastic job with the MP series; I am a huge fan of Metroid btw.) but I had heard that Nintendo shut them down or they had shut themselves down due to budgeting?

[Sumac]

Thats why the best thing to do would be to see how some other developer handles the Castlevania name.

I am not against it. I am completely for that as long as franchise will stay away from the hands of IGA and the final product will be decent.

The only thing I am against is senseless bashing of LOS on every occasion. Some people made it clear that they don't like this game, but it doesn't mean that they must state it every single time they post. It's simply annoying.

Eye for won believe that it's entirely possible to have another developer create a game that does Castlevania justice so that it pleases everyone, the formula for the classics is not broken and metroidvania can see glory once again if done right, in a way that no one's offended. I don't know why Konami can't realize this.

It's impossible. Series has too many faces and too many changes over the years, so creating a Castlevania that will combine everything that people love about the series is impossible task to do. If someone try to create such a game he will epicly fail, because the final result will be inconsistent mish mash of tones, styles without much of idea or underlying desighn for it. Sort of like HD.
If they want to create good Castlevania they must stick to the single idea / design what game is about.

And "metroidvania" is not classic formula and it's tired by now. Too many mediocre products were done in this style and even good ones weren't that different from Symphony of the Night. Personally I don't want another SOTN clone and that's why I stick to something different.

I don't know of anyone here that plays Castlevania for the sake of recycled "cookie-cutter" experiences.

From reactions that I've seen about LOS and prospect of yet another "IGAvania" it looks like some people really want every CV game to be a SOTN clone. Gladly IGA himself done everything to reduce population of such fans with his "cloning" exercises.

Lords of Shadow is devisive because the change it delivers offends many fans' views on Castlevania.

Fans must be more acceptable about changes. Though, stagnancy in minds is expected in this case, since franchise was in the hands of one man for so long and most of his games tryed to replicate one single game. It's like drilling the same idea over and over again. Sadly some people were really succeptible to it.

I disagree, the spirit of the Mario & Zelda games has remained mostly consistent through the years & look how popular they are.

I don't think that Wind Waker looks like the same old LotZ.
And Mario embraced practically every genre in the begining of it's existance. All consistency that you need about his games is Mario himself, bright colours and happy thoughts. 
Not very hard to do in my book.

Actually, you're right. Not all games need change.

Yeahhhh!!! Let's play the same game over and over and over!! Surely there will be people who will love it!!

But as for majority of the gamers? Most likely they will be quite tired about playing the same old game after a while. It will lead either to the death of the franchise or...changes.
And your example about evolution doesn't working. What animals has to do with anything? Do you "enjoy" animals like video games? Play them over and over? Do the animals have the same formula and visual style? Sorry, but your example doesn't make sense.

[Flame]

"No Change" is the reason the Mega Man franchise is in the spot it is. because Capcom never evolved the formula. They tried twice. Only twice, to bring the series to 3D. 1 was Legends, and we see how that went. 2, was X7, and despite it's problems, it was a good start. However they did not continue it. they went right back to 2D for X8, and made an arguably worse game than any of the 2D's X1-X6.


AT least Castlevania experiments with 3D occasionally. It TRIES to find the right formula. With LoS, it got VERY close. At least as far as gameplay is concerned...

Megaman? Doing 8 bit retro rehashes that only serve to masturbate all over Mega Man 2. with 3 of it's series in limbo, 1 of which got it's sequel canceled.

[KaZudra]

Megaman? Doing 8 bit retro rehashes that only serve to masturbate all over Mega Man 2.

Oh my god, that's exactly what I said about Mgeaman 9, 10, and Universe
despite 7 was the best in original Megaman but was pretty rare


Legends has its quirks, but once you get the controls down, the game plays rather smooth, X7 is just Fail on every aspect

[Flame]

X7 was not fail on "every aspect" for one, it is the best 3D Megaman game graphically- The graphics were great. The music was great. the story was ok. and most of the 3D gameplay was alright. What ultimately killed it was trying to blend both 2D and 3D, meaning you had an autotarget in 2D mode, broken physics engine, (broken dash wall kicking) and dull level design.

but like I said, it was a step in the right direction. one Capcom should have followed.

also, To each their own, but I would say the greatest Classic game is 8. And if not 8, then maybe 6. 7 is just to odd. And I hate the sprite style.

[C Belmont]

I don't think that Wind Waker looks like the same old LoZ.

Really the only thing that changed with Wind waker was the art style everything else was still unmistakably Zelda, it's hero, it's gameplay everything.
Castlevania looks like a creature of chaos by comparison, both Zelda & Mario feel as though their creators have given considerable time and thought into what features define their games while at this stage castlevania is so all over the place it would be difficult for any fan to describe what makes a castlevania game without excluding some entries.

[KaZudra]

Only Flaw with LoZ that your expected to buy the fact that every female in the Royal family in named Zelda, every Man who tries to take over is a Pig Demon Named Ganondorf, and the Hero is always a Dude in a green Skirt and a stupid ass hat. It works when link is a child, but its very laughable on an adult link.

I used to believe that the LoZ games were the same Story as told by different people hence why the hero always does the same thing in the end but everything else could vary.
The Timeline broke that belief and also Completely broke the Zelda Franchise of being taken serious given that Hyrule was taken over MULTIPLE times all by people of the SAME NAME and yet when Ganon no. 10289 shows up, you trust him. The Black sheep Zelda Games shine because it tries something new and usually is regarded Higher than the originals.

Castlevania is ever changing with elements, examples through the games after the original NES game

Castleavnia for the MSX is the First non linear Castlevania, but still stage based (like HD), its more like castlevania 1.5, first to include a character with a shield and changeable main weapon

Castlevania 2 is the first "Metroidvania" game in the franchise, also the only game that pretty much requires a guide, also the first to include a level up system, and events based on item
collection.

Castlevania 3 changes the protagonist, gves you 3 alternate characters to choose from, and Alternate routes!

Haunted Castle gives you the first Terrible castlevania game where the player could regret ever playing.

Adventure gives you bullet whip like Link in LoZ

Adventure 2 gives you stage select in a castlevania game

Legends gives you encounter pits and a Funky soul system as well as a super mode

Bloodlines is the first and only Fast paced castlevania game, also the first to have a character selection at beginning of game, also the only to tour in different parts of europe

Super Castlevania it the Only title to standarize R subweapons and 8-directinal Whipping, and Whip swinging also regarded as the best castlevania game ever

Dracula X Rondo of Blood is basically Castlevania 3 with a stage select, oh yeah and ITEM CRASH. also the first to start the "" of "" title layouts

Dracula X SNES gives you a better stage 1, Better music, and an impossible Dracula Fight

Castlevania 64 + LoD are pretty much the same game, LoD is just a improved version, but leaps into 3d giving you 4 characters to play seperate stories from, also being the first Story driven Castlevania Titles.

Chronicles (X8600 or something) introduces the Herb Subweapon

-------Concluding Classic Era-----

SoTN gives you alucard, a more backtrackable map, a Lazy "Inverted" Castle and 32x leftovers, the Saturn version gives you a little more, also introduces Stat based level ups, first character to use a variety of weapons, also regarded to start "Metroidvania" because peolpe were too stupid to play castlevania 2

CoTM  Gives the DDS System, also the only game to include Tackle, also the game re-canonized the 64 titles, also being the first Castlevania game where Defeating Dracula is the only link to the other games, no Vampire Killer, none of that.

HoD Returns Belmonts to the Story acting as a Refined SoTN for the GBA, also introduces Spellbooks which Vary effects depending on subweapons and books, also the only game where killing dracula involves optional Relic hunting which makes more use of the save rooms, also the first game to allow customization to the vampire killer.

LoI Replaced HoD's Books with orbs but intoduces a new kind of Relic used for battle, also introduces a variety of whips in inventory

AoS introduces the unique and very cool soul system (gotta catch em all), also the first game where Dracula is the Protagonist and the Final Humanoid Boss is a Belmont, also the first game to make Belmonts unlockable

CoD gives you a unique Familiar system as well as the first Beat em up Metroidvania game.

DoS evolves the soul system and also gives you a touchscreen Seal to Defeat bosses, also gives you a 3 character Switch version of Cv3, Online Trading

PoR Gives you an assist version of Cv3, also introduces Special Combo attacks, 2 Simentanious controlable characters, Co-op, first time EVER Tag-team fight with death AND Dracula, Questing, and many new elements.

OoE Gives you a Glyph System, combinable Glyph attacks, Rescuing Villagers, and obstical courses and more.

Judgement gives you a First Fighter.

Rebirth Gives you a classic game when the franchise is ridden with metroidvanias

Arcade gives you the first Rail Shooter

Pachislot 1+2 Takes gambling to a whole new level

HD is the first Online Based Castlevania Game.

LoS, when you think about it, the only new thing its doing is... the Combat Cross and Stockable Subweapons oh and minigames.

[crisis]

am getting pretty fucking tired of ppl hating on Haunted Castle all the time