Topic: The biggest 3D FAIL.

[Neobelmont]

Well I learned something new,but I like combos that you can play around with and come up with a style also I do not understand  how the flatness of an area affects a combo system.

But by the sound of it seems like something along the lines of onimusha(no jumping) or maximo where yeah the attacks are not as combo crazy but you will be able to multitask which makes sense see as how castlevania had you doing both.

Yes LoS combo system is great but yes in the sense of action-platforming that you were explaining it gets a C+ it is not that it is bad but more of not being fluid it just seems to me that Maximo would be like what your describing.


Kind of like this right?


Let's Play Maximo: Ghosts To Glory Part 13-Platforming Extravaganza!

[RichterB]

Well I learned something new,but I like combos that you can play around with and come up with a style also I do not understand  how the flatness of an area affects a combo system.

But by the sound of it seems like something along the lines of onimusha(no jumping) or maximo where yeah the attacks are not as combo crazy but you will be able to multitask which makes sense see as how castlevania had you doing both.

Yes LoS combo system is great but yes in the sense of action-platforming that you were explaining it gets a C+ it is not that it is bad but more of not being fluid it just seems to me that Maximo would be like what your describing.


Kind of like this right?


Let's Play Maximo: Ghosts To Glory Part 13-Platforming Extravaganza!

Bingo! The video, with Maximo, is definitely what I'm getting at: 3D camera, dynamic level design that utilizes said camera, and multitasking of combat and platforming without excessive, pre-programmed showboating and juggling.  (I don't know if LoS, as is with its controls and camera, can duplicate the sort of experience Maximo had there in that vid--especially as seamlessly/smoothly. The problem seems to be that a lot of modern developers think that kind of design is "old-school/8-bit"...but it works just in the same way that Mario 64 worked as an update of Super Mario Bros, hitting the core of what Castlevania is at its gameplay heart).

While we're on the same page for a moment, let me suggest something else I'd like to see improved from LoS. The swing-platforming. It needs to be freed up and more about timing and physics than just on-rails events. This may be taking it a bit far, but check out this Bionic Commando video, which frees up the controls and the camera for some fun and amazing gameplay: Bionic Commando - Swinging Gameplay (HQ) (Even SCV-IV on the SNES had more physics and tension to its whip/swing-platforming than LoS--though LoS' "repelling" aspect was a cool addition).

Also, with both of these, and Maximo in particular, that's why I said CV64 had the right building blocks in its combat/platforming system and level design. Check out the video of CV64 I will link here in a moment, and pay special attention to 0:17-2:10 for cleverly-crafted, tense action-platforming that is as "Castlevania" as Dracula's fangs (and missing from LoS). And then, check out 3:56-5:15 to see what I meant about not needing intense combos or closed-off, flat arenas to engender combat, as this allows the level to develop naturally and for the player to tackle the situation how they see fit, moving where they want to naturally as a part of the level design itself, as opposed to being stuck in a set piece with forced invisible walls where you need to clear enemies or wait for a certain amount of enemy animations to happen (like the giant Ogre section in LoS' fortress). Castlevania 64 Reinhardt Walkthrough Part 4 (There is a flow and calculation to the gameplay that goes back to that Level 2 section everyone points out in CV1 NES as iconic, where you had the medusa heads AND the axe knight, and had to plot out how to overcome multiple obstacles at once while fighting. The answer isn't as simple as use X-combo x-amount of times and overpower my enemies; it's more about surviving).

The CV64 attacks could be embellished a little if need be (maybe a weaker, ranged 360 whip-spin over the head like Gabriel for when you're surrounded), but LoS went in a completely different direction not so far from LoI and CoD when it comes to combat and usage of environment and enemies. At the end of the day, that format is less of a game and more of an interactive movie. And CV64, when it needed to slow down the action-platforming, didn't go for set piece titan battles ala SotC or forced shimmying in the vein of Uncharted; rather, it decided to go into atmospheric exploration, where you were still threatened (as in the Villa/Garden section), meshing with the traditions of in-universe games like Simon's Quest and SotN while maintaining its own distinct personality. (Even if one argues it took a page from Resident Evil 1).

[Kale]

I love combos. I love Ninja Gaiden. I do like DMC, but I hate how so many enemies are punching bags. It's only the ones that have a realistic threat that made the game good.

I like the idea that LoS had combos and some of those bosses and enemies were good. The were wolves were good, the Dark Knight was good. But it had so many things that annoyed the living shit out of me. The highest on the list would probably be QT FUCKING E!

[X]

The only thing that really bothered me with LoS combat was it took forever to kill even just the basic enemies. Even GoW wasn't THAT bad for combat.