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Offline Slayer

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2011, 07:09:13 PM »
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I am serious when I say I hate muslims, and I'm not ashamed to say it. 
That's strange, most people would be ashamed if they discriminated against ethnic minorities like you just did.
If I lived in a muslim theocracy, I would be executed under sharia law.  I can't think of a better reason to hate them. Can you?
Not all of Islam's followers are theocratic rulers. In fact, most of them aren't. I know this may shock you but you are horribly wrong.


« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 07:11:19 PM by Slayer »
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Offline Opium

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2011, 11:08:42 PM »
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That's strange, most people would be ashamed if they discriminated against ethnic minorities like you just did.Not all of Islam's followers are theocratic rulers. In fact, most of them aren't. I know this may shock you but you are horribly wrong.

A religion is not an ethnic minority, silly buns.  I'm anti-religious. I could care less about the color of someone's skin or what their ethnic heritage is.  I suppose you think xtian means white people? 
People who react with shock to any dissent against a segment of society are often brainwashed into a leftist ideology where it's wrong to say that others are wrong.  Meanwhile they ignore the fact that people are being stoned to death for trivial reasons because they live in a bubble where their biggest problem is figuring out ways to be more politically correct than others. 
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 11:16:53 PM by Opium »

Offline Kale

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2011, 11:44:52 PM »
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I literally, don't care either way. I think that's the only attitude you can really have if you want to go towards a world where there's not racism/sexism/ageism... etc.

When people stop caring, it stops being effective.

My advice, ignore the idiot that said that to you and stop being friends with him or whatever you were to him.

Now that I say that. I say A LOT of racist things at work. Since the people I've work with are cool with it, and they all know I'm joking anyway. (Don't do it with people you don't know for sure, that's bound to get you into a lot of trouble)

A religion is not an ethnic minority, silly buns.

Jews seems to think they are. That's what always lost me.

Offline Slayer

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2011, 07:17:01 AM »
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Ethnicity is judged by culture. People who are in ethnic minorities belong to cultures that lack the same power as the majority culture. In Western society, which I assume we are referring to, members of the ethnic majority are straight white christians. [Keep in mind that ethnic minority status is different from racial minority status]
Muslims take part in a culture outside of the status quo. They are therefore ethnic minorities, as are jews and many other groups.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ethnicity

« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 07:47:12 AM by Slayer »
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Offline Slayer

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2011, 07:21:38 AM »
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People who react with shock to any dissent against a segment of society are often brainwashed into a leftist ideology where it's wrong to say that others are wrong.  Meanwhile they ignore the fact that people are being stoned to death for trivial reasons because they live in a bubble where their biggest problem is figuring out ways to be more politically correct than others.
People who react with shock to any dissent against a segment of society are often brainwashed into a rightist ideology where it's wrong to say that others are wrong.  Meanwhile they ignore the fact that people are being ethnically profiled and imprisoned without due process by developed countries because they live in a bubble where their biggest problem is figuring out ways to be more politically assured than others.

I'll stop here, but I think I made my point. I'll consider your further arguments but I won't respond to avoid a potential flame war.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 07:23:53 AM by Slayer »
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Offline A-Yty

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2011, 07:58:40 AM »
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It's the way Islam is handled that worries me. South Park mocked that double standard well. There shouldn't be a taboo like that in modern world.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 08:00:25 AM by A-Yty »


Offline Slayer

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2011, 08:20:23 AM »
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It's the way Islam is handled that worries me. South Park mocked that double standard well. There shouldn't be a taboo like that in modern world.
I agree with this.
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Offline Mooning Freddy

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2011, 08:21:50 AM »
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I think you have it kinda wrong, Opium. You don't hate Muslim, you hate Muslim governments. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan are some of the countries where Medieval Sharia law has become the law of the state, therefore making the countries dark theocracies who don't give a crap about human rights, and at the same time are hypocritical enough to criticize Western cultures. Those countries are the scum of Earth and should be isolated until they reconsider their points of view on the world. Unfortunately, politics don't work that way.   

I'm an enthusiastic supporter of separation of church and state. Freedom of religion means you can believe whatever you want to believe as long as it doesn't concern me. However, once your religious views defy human or civil rights, or you try to enforce them on others, your break the law.

Unfortunately, in my country, the separation is only partial. The construction of places of worship (mosques and synagogues) is still funded from taxpayers' money, and some aspects of life, such as marriage, are still under a religious monopoly. What it basically means, is that marriages of Jews and non-Jews are forbidden by state law (since religious lobbies do not allow that), along with same-sex marriages. However, if the two get married in a different country, the marriage becomes legitimate.
NOW THAT'S BULLSHIT. Eventually, the law does not prevent people from getting married, it just compels them to get married outside the country. That's one of the laws which gets the most criticism in the country, but it seems like the law isn't gonna change. Religious lobbies grab the politicians by their balls. 

Quote
Jews seems to think they are. That's what always lost me.

Lost you? How about lost everybody? lol
You do realize one of the greatest conflicts in the state of Israel is answering the question "What is a Jew?"
Jews are the only nation who believe in the Jewish faith (I think "faith" fits better here than "religion").
The reason for that is because Judaism is the only religion among the three monotheistic ones which is not missionary. Jews never wanted other nations to believe whatever they believe in, on the contrary. They believe their faith has only been intended for one nation.
Now who belongs to the Jewish nation anyway? Now that's a hard question. After 2000 years away from their homeland, the Jewish communities all across the world lost connection with each other. You think Jews only lived in Europe and North Africa? Guess what. There were Jewish communities for centuries so far off as Ethiopia and India (black Jews, hehehe). How did they prove their Judaism to the skeptical Europeans? Jewish traditions, stemming from the Jewish faith.   
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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2011, 01:50:03 AM »
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You punch them in the face, then kick the crap out of them while they are down.

Seriously sometimes I think this world still lives in the dark ages.

Offline Opium

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2011, 11:09:27 AM »
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People who react with shock to any dissent against a segment of society are often brainwashed into a rightist ideology where it's wrong to say that others are wrong.

Right-wing people think it's wrong to say that others are wrong?  From where I'm sitting, that seems to be their favorite past time.  They're a thousand times more discriminatory than left-wing people.  As a bisexual atheist, I'm definitely more on the left than the right.  People who are on the extreme left or right annoy the hell out of everyone, and I'm talking about extreme leftists who preach pacifism and peace/love instead of being tough when it's needed.  There's nothing OK with the ideals that radical religious groups preach.  There's nothing OK about a world view where it's acceptable to exterminate people who don't think like you.  I hate those views, and not just from muslims but from xtians, too.  I hate religious dogma and the hell it has wrought upon the human race and I wish I would live long enough to see our species finally wake up and rise above it.  The stats show it's happening now, but there's definitely a ways to go.

Meanwhile they ignore the fact that people are being ethnically profiled and imprisoned without due process by developed countries because they live in a bubble where their biggest problem is figuring out ways to be more politically assured than others.
I don't ignore the fact that people are being ethnically profiled, I'm just not about to complain about it.  If there were a threat to society that 99 times out of 100 shared the same physical characteristics as someone just like me, then I would understand that I would get looked at with suspicion.  Bitching about profiling doesn't do a god damn thing except force people like TSA workers to strip search old ladies so that it appears to be 'fair' for far-left people.  It's like the affirmative-action of law enforcement, and it just doesn't work.  You don't make life more fair for some people by making it less fair for others, two wrongs don't make a right, etc etc.  If there were people who were unfairly detained by the US govt after 9/11, then that really sucks but it's definitely NOT an argument against my views. I hate those people and I've stated why, if some of them have been treated unfairly then that's a completely separate issue and doesn't have anything to do with the reasons why I hate the people that I hate. As far as 'politically assured' goes, I'm not familiar with that phrase so I really don't know where you're going with that.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 11:32:10 AM by Opium »

Offline Gunlord

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2011, 11:48:55 AM »
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Hmm...well, first off, Ms. Opium, if you do hate Muslims--or Christians, or any other religious group--it would not be a particularly good idea to make much of a fuss about it on forums like the CVD. This is not an attempt to censor you, of course, nor is it an attempt to mini-mod. It's simply an observation--the mods here, like Jorgey and Bloodreign, go out of their way to make sure this place is welcoming for everyone. Christians and atheists are both welcome here, along with Muslims, or pagans, or people of a wide variety of religious views. At least as far as I am aware, the only restrictions placed on any of them is that they treat everyone else with respect. A Christian who went around saying "I hate atheists/muslims/whatever" would find himself unwelcome in fairly short order, I believe. The same applies to atheists, I surmise.

Of course, that leads me away from a simple remonstration to a critique of your point more salient to this thread. You are correct in saying that being prejudiced against a religion is not the same thing as being prejudiced against a race, but the problem is, *both* are relatively irrational.

You rightfully point out that "Anyone who believes that myself and virtually everyone I care about doesn't even have a right to be on this earth is not going to be on my friend list." The problem is, many muslims--and "xtians," and members of bunches of other religious groups categorically DO NOT believe that. Quakers and liberal Christians in general are well-known for their tolerance of homosexuality, along with many other things. And it's hard to imagine Sufi Muslims wanting to eliminate anyone from the Earth, given how they stress self-perfection and mysticism and are known for their non-violence. My own parents, both of whom are Muslim, take a fairly dim view of homophobia, along with a relatively positive view of atheists, Christians, and other religious groups generally.

It makes no more sense, therefore, to "hate" Muslims, Christians, or whatever than it does to hate blacks or whites. You can hate specific groups of blacks or whites--you can hate black gang members or white KKKers--but hating entire races paints with too broad a brush. By the same token, you can hate specific sects of certain religions--Wahabi muslims, Christian cultists--but hating entire religions paints with too broad a brush.

To bring it all back to my friend Beingthehero's original post (though I get the distinct feeling he might have just been joking around with Peklo rather than being serious...XD), this would indeed seem to be a good way of dealing with prejudice, applicable far beyond just ethnic or religious prejudice, too. The world is a very complex place. Those who judge others based on only a single facet of their personalities, whether it's their origins, or their appearance, or their beliefs, or whatever, are blinding themselves to a great deal of that complexity. Thus, in the final analysis, they hurt themselves as much as they hurt the people they're prejudiced against.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 11:51:00 AM by Gunlord »

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2011, 04:02:49 PM »
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I do not even know why the hell I am putting it but this whole subject makes just makes me think of this :


Everyone's A Little Bit Racist -- ToS style
(click to show/hide)
Come on now this was going to happen eventually  :P

Offline Slayer

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2011, 04:17:15 PM »
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Right-wing people think it's wrong to say that others are wrong?  From where I'm sitting, that seems to be their favorite past time.  They're a thousand times more discriminatory than left-wing people.  As a bisexual atheist, I'm definitely more on the left than the right.  People who are on the extreme left or right annoy the hell out of everyone, and I'm talking about extreme leftists who preach pacifism and peace/love instead of being tough when it's needed.
My apologies, I should not have assumed you were right wing just because you're against muslims. I know far too many people irl who have such views because of their conservatism, and I should not have lumped you in like that. The way I expressed my argument was also sophomoric.
That being said, as a fellow atheist, I also hate religious dogma. I just don't think it's right to hate a whole group of people because of that dogma, as people less often than more follow it to the extent it decries.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 04:21:07 PM by Slayer »
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Offline Opium

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2011, 11:18:32 PM »
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It makes no more sense, therefore, to "hate" Muslims, Christians, or whatever than it does to hate blacks or whites. You can hate specific groups of blacks or whites--you can hate black gang members or white KKKers--but hating entire races paints with too broad a brush. By the same token, you can hate specific sects of certain religions--Wahabi muslims, Christian cultists--but hating entire religions paints with too broad a brush.

Hating someone for what they believe or what they do is completely different than hating someone for what they are, so I really don't know how you can say that hating someone for their beliefs or actions is the same as hating someone for their race.  It's just not. The same. At all. 
And people always say the same thing: "Well, not ALL (insert religion here) people are like that."  So really there is no such thing as a xtian, or a muslim for that matter, because they all cherry pick which rules they want to deem as viable and which ones to ignore.  I'm not sure why that's not evidence to a rational person that the whole thing is BS, but my point is that these religions are the source of all manner of bigotry and prejudice.  It's no coincidence that visions of a utopian future always show mankind having moved past religious beliefs.  They are delusions which people have used to justify the most heinous acts that have ever been committed in our history. Why anyone would want to identify with one of those groups AT ALL, even if it's only half-assed, is beyond me.  But, even supporting it half-assed is still supporting it.  One can make donations to a neo nazi group all day long and claim to not be racist, but they're still supporting the hatred.  Truthfully, the xtians and muslims who advocate the extermination of peoples are not radical at all. They are the ones that are actually following their holy texts.  It's the xtians who say they are accepting and tolerant that make ZERO sense, because that is not what their bible says to do.  Jesus said it a couple of times, but he also said a lot of violent and intolerant things, and plus he's in a tiny part of the book.  This is the cherry-picking that I was talking about. 
I'm reminded of a saying: "If you want to make someone an atheist, just hand them a bible."   Most religious people have no idea what their religion is even about.  A Pew study last year made national headlines when it was determined that atheists knew more about the major religions of the world than religious people did.  Catholics actually scored the lowest, even when the questions were about xtianity.  I challenge anyone to read the bible, or the koran, and  say that they have ever met ANYONE who actually follows the tenets of those texts.  Nobody does.
I'm going off on tangents, so let me just make a point as it relates to this topic.  Many of the prejudices we have today simply would not exist if religion went away, since people have no other reason to feel the way they do other than 'because my church says so'.  That's the beef I have with it and those who support it.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 11:24:46 PM by Opium »

Offline Mooning Freddy

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Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2011, 12:42:58 AM »
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Quote
Jesus said it a couple of times, but he also said a lot of violent and intolerant things, and plus he's in a tiny part of the book.

You kinda lost me here. Didn't Jesus say "If someone slaps your cheek, turn the other cheek"? Like in, extreme nonsensical pacifism? Which is the reason he was hated by most Jews in his time?
For someone who learned the bible (the Old Testament that is) in school, I can tell you it's interesting to read as a historical documentation of life in the ancient world, if you ignore all the religious stuff, that is.
The religious idea behind the "Samuel" and "Kings" books is one and the same.

Israelites commit sins---> Israelites get punished (by God)---> Israelites repent---> Israelites are redeemed.

The formula keeps repeating itself for a period of maybe a thousand years, connecting all historical occurrences to it. The separation of the 10 northern tribes from Judea (caused by the tyranny of Judea towards the other tribes) is explained as a punishment for the sins of Solomon. The destruction of the Temple and exile of Judea by the Babylonians? Punishment for the prolonged infidelity of Judea.

It's a philosophical idea that has been borrowed into Christianity, and is a basic concept of Judeo-Christian faith. Long story short? Bad stuff won't happen to you if you're a good person. The problem? It doesn't work that way in real life. Even in ancient times, nobody believed that. You expect people to believe it now?
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