Topic: Falling to your death

[Arcraith]

yo, i've been wondering what you guys think about falling to your death in castlevania games, prevalent in the original games which had more linear level designs. The focus in those games was platforming and beating the game level by level, but in the metroidvanias the focus is more about the RPG-like mechanic of customizing your character, and usually in RPGs you don't die in such abrupt ways since that would kind of defeat the purpose of all the stat-building i guess. its no longer so much of a challenge in terms of getting from A to B in the game than it was in the originals. Plus the more fluid movements in the later games made it even easier. my question is: would the falling to your death mechanic be acceptable in a metroidvania? does it contradict the overall game design by going against the accepted standards of an rpg? and what really defines a castlevania game in terms of gameplay these days anyway?

[crisis]

I always felt that death pits could've been incorporated in Order of Ecclesia since there were linear parts here & there. Would've added to its greatness & difficulty, excellent homage to the classics. Even instant death spikes, hazards like these would be great in a metroivanai.

[darkwzrd4]

Interesting thought...

The problem is that there are no pits in metroidvanias.  However, there are some traps and obstacles that could be instant death if you don't have the proper equipment.  For example, there are two areas in the first castle of SotN lined with spikes, but if you touch them, you only take some damage.  In OoE one of the areas is a swamp with muddy spots on the ground that slow you down.  Why not make those instant death scenarios.  Spikes = instant death with out certain items and with muddy areas, you sink and if you don't get out quick enough, you sink to the bottom and die.  Now then, these can be pretty easily evaded, but it would be appropriate punishments for people who aren't paying attention, especially if the programers place save points far from these obstacles.  Another change could be that you take significant damage if you fall from a very high place. 

These are just my thoughts, but metroidvanias could use some instant death obstacles.  It's something they lack and should really be tried.

[Arcraith]

Yeah, I actually kind of liked the idea in CV64 where you took damage from falling, it kind of took away the impression that every hero is too badass to worry about heights, and made you more careful with your movements. It even added to the atmosphere of the game.
And talking of instant kills, I actually enjoyed the nitro/mandragora run in CV64 where you had to carry the nitro to that place without jumping or falling.It was kind of unique.

And how about hanging onto ledges (also from CV64)? a lot of old 2d platform games like commander keen and rayman had the mechanic. And in my opinion it worked really well in CV64 (though which was 3d). Would it work in a metroidvania? or any 2d Castlevania for that matter?

[crisis]

Welll Metroid Fusion had ledge hanging. So it would probaly work for Castlevania too.

[darkwzrd4]

While an interesting idea, I don't think that the kind of ledge hanging found in CV64 would work in side scrolling games.  keep in mind that the players point of view affects what can and can't be done.

[X]

Instant deaths in a metroidvania can be done, but only if they're done right. I believe it could work and it would add more tense moments in the game especially if the player was being bombarded by enemies whilst traversing these hazards. they did pull it off in the later MMX games. If you didn't have one of your suits of armor found you'd be killed by spikes instantly. But if you have the armor then the hazard is nullified. such a thing would be interesting for a future metroidvania game.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

While an interesting idea, I don't think that the kind of ledge hanging found in CV64 would work in side scrolling games.  keep in mind that the players point of view affects what can and can't be done.

Super Smash Bros. games would like a word with you.

[Arcraith]

is there much place for remakes of the old classic castlevanias like dracula x chronicles? do people still enjoy playing the linear platforming castlevanias with their limited controls, etc?

[KaZudra]

Honestly, the techniques on castlevania games are ancient compaired to others, Castlevania Should have Areas which progress and change area perspective as you advance such as Sonic and Klonoa, ledge grabbing like metroid and a method of challenge other than jacking up Health on enemies/bosses.

[PFG9000]

Shantae: Risky's Revenge and Cave Story are both MetroidVanias with death pits.  In Shantae, you respawn next to the pit with a little less life after you fall in.  In Cave Story, you restart from your last save.  Both of them work fine, but I think Cave Story's method would fit CV's difficulty and style a bit better.

[Arcraith]

hm, what about instant kill hazards during boss fights, like fighting while on a moving platform over spikes or something? maybe even a special move that the boss does that is a one hit kill?

[knightmere]

I like it when you can fall to your death in Castlevania games.  It makes you plan your moves much more carefully and increases the tension during tough platforming areas.  Castlevania 3 definitely showcases this to great effect.

[Mooning Freddy]

Reminds me of the scene in Circle of the Moon where Dracula drops Nathan and Hugh in a seemingly-endless pit and they fall for like 15 seconds, only to land safely on their feet in the Catacombs.

Screw gravity. Vampire Hunters are unaffected by it. 

[TheouAegis]

Ledge hanging has been around in 2D side-scrollers for decades.

Prince of Persia.

End of argument. Game over. Thank you and good-bye.