Topic: Sequelitis: Super Castlevania 4

[Neobelmont]

To me it sounds like awesome game not as good as nes cv yet still good, but they could have expanded more on the idea but if that is the case would bloodlines or rondo of blood be better because the are good uses for items. Either way it seems that his favorite cv is the first and the other seem to be a mixed bag. Also SCVIV is a remake just saying Ego just saying....

[TheouAegis]

I love how he dodged Dracula's Curse that whole video. Except the one time he was like, "Whatever comes between the second and the fourth." Not like CV3 didn't add new mechanics to the series. Just nothing seemingly as groundbreaking and no Simon.

Ego wasn't complaining too much that SCV4 was too easy, but that the new mechanics weren't well thought out. "Let's let Simon attack more than just straight forward." Sure you could only whip in front of you but the whip had a delay before it recoiled, allowing you to hit multiple enemies on the way up or on the way down. His gripe wasn't that it made items obsolete, it was that Konami even bothered to keep items in at all because they were obsolete. Egoraptor would have no problem with a CV game that had no items, but SCV4's items were totally pointless, as were the hearts, because they were even worse than the whip. In CV1 and CV3, items were extremely useful. What he was pointing out, it sounds like Konami originally maybe wanted straight-ahead whipping and designed SCV4 in that fashion, then one of the higher ups said, "Make the whipping easier by allowing Simon to attack 8 directions," so they added that in without changing the rest of the game at all, which created a broken mechanic. I don't care how big of a fanboy of SCV4 you are, Simon's whipping is unarguably a broken mechanic. Hence as Egoraptor said, it's an ungraceful game.

As for the whipping puzzles, OoE kinda did that with the Magnes. Especially in the Training Hall. God that place is pissing me off right now. And SCV4 DID have the grappling areas, so it's not like Konami totally missed that.

[thernz]

Yeah, I don't think anyone particularly likes SCV4 for its gameplay additions, besides the more fluid jump control and maybe, the grappling. Those two were the only ones well implemented in the level design.

[Nagumo]

I don't know if it says much but the only sub-weapon I thought was neccesarry in the NES Castlevania was the Holy Water in order to the spam all the bosses to death with. Though I suppose it would still beat SCIV in sub-weapon usage.       

CV3 is probably the best at incorporating situations were sub-weapons are genuinely helpful into the design. 

[Neobelmont]

I love how he dodged Dracula's Curse that whole video. Except the one time he was like, "Whatever comes between the second and the fourth." Not like CV3 didn't add new mechanics to the series. Just nothing seemingly as groundbreaking and no Simon.

Ego wasn't complaining too much that SCV4 was too easy, but that the new mechanics weren't well thought out. "Let's let Simon attack more than just straight forward." Sure you could only whip in front of you but the whip had a delay before it recoiled, allowing you to hit multiple enemies on the way up or on the way down. His gripe wasn't that it made items obsolete, it was that Konami even bothered to keep items in at all because they were obsolete. Egoraptor would have no problem with a CV game that had no items, but SCV4's items were totally pointless, as were the hearts, because they were even worse than the whip. In CV1 and CV3, items were extremely useful. What he was pointing out, it sounds like Konami originally maybe wanted straight-ahead whipping and designed SCV4 in that fashion, then one of the higher ups said, "Make the whipping easier by allowing Simon to attack 8 directions," so they added that in without changing the rest of the game at all, which created a broken mechanic. I don't care how big of a fanboy of SCV4 you are, Simon's whipping is unarguably a broken mechanic. Hence as Egoraptor said, it's an ungraceful game.

As for the whipping puzzles, OoE kinda did that with the Magnes. Especially in the Training Hall. God that place is pissing me off right now. And SCV4 DID have the grappling areas, so it's not like Konami totally missed that.

Are you talking to me?

[Flame]

Its the reason why some other classicvanias included multi directional whipping only to a certain extent, and you had to know how to use it well. Bloodlines for example. You can only diagonal whip and down whip while airborn. Making it a bit more dangerous, since because you cant change your mid-air trajectory, you are vulnerable and liable to get hit by some flying piece of shit that will knock you right off the stage.

[Josh the Funkdoc]

I have had similar thoughts for some time now, and this is a major reason I think CV3 beats it as an overall game.  I think 4's additions make it the most fun for skill challenges, though - the cross is a huge factor even with the overpowered whip, holy water still hurts a lot even in its nerfed state, and the stopwatch becomes important in the second loop.  New abilities and techniques also make for more cool tricks!

[Ahasverus]

At least, someone who doesn't think SCVIV is the second coming of Christ :hi5:

[Flame]

The only thing SC4 ever had going for it w as multi directional whipping, and mid air trajectory changing. That's it. without those it wold be just another castlevania remake. Those are the only 2 things that make people go nuts over it.

[Nagumo]

Not that I'm a big fan of SCIV or anything, but that's a very large exaggeration. Perhaps that there really are certain people who are like that but they don't represent the majority. 

[uzo]

At least, someone who doesn't think SCVIV is the second coming of Christ :hi5:

It still is.

The only thing SC4 ever had going for it w as multi directional whipping, and mid air trajectory changing. That's it. without those it wold be just another castlevania remake. Those are the only 2 things that make people go nuts over it.

You neglect to mention the atmosphere, dark and detailed graphics, music, overall mood, whip swinging, great use of mode 7, excellent level design, and more.

[Successor The Cruel]

That guy who did the review... or whatever that was, also neglected to mention that stuff. He harped on one subject the whole time and left everything else out. It was actually a kind of crappy look at the game, really, and didn't nearly do it proper justice. I'm not saying his point isn't well taken, but man... there's a lot more to CV4 than the whipping function. If everything else goes over a person's head, and they get bizarrely fixated on the whip, I'm inclined to think they're somewhat dimwitted. He says more than once that he's not doing that, but I dunno'. His entire video is like, "Hey go try out this game, it's pretty neat, but THAT whip. Yeah, so... about that whipping again. Man, this whipping really stanks. By the way, I'm telling you to play this game."

[uzo]

The show is obviously not about reviewing games. It's about comparisons between sequels and the advancement of game design, as well as in depth looks at examples of how gaming has changed over time.

[RichterB]

Ego's videos are entertaining and pretty insightful (especially the Megaman X one). This one made a decent point, but I don't think it was as well thought out. The whip is a little overpowered, but this is nothing compared to what has happened to Castlevania SotN and beyond in terms of how you can spam the enemies. (And I still argue that sub-weapons, since the inclusion of combos, have been greatly underutilized. Only the 64 games got it right in the balance of whip + subweapons). Anyway, the Castleroid games, as fun as they can be at times, are broken in their combat/danger (you're literally superman more often than not, taking away meaningful platforming and such), whereas SCVIV merely has some cracks in its armor. The fact is, each Classicvania was done by different people with different experimental pieces. The 8-way whip/grappling hook was an experimental add-on in #4. While it could have been explored further, as Ego's rough schematics show, it was utilized in exciting ways that no other Castlevania has matched. Just look at the Clocktower stage's use of the new whip mechanics. (It even convered the basics of some of Ego's rough ideas). Had this idea been kept, I'm sure it would have evolved and been fleshed out further--but it was obviously considered too hard to develop for most creators, which is very sad. So maybe one of #4's strengths is its weaknesses...but you know what? Heck if it wasn't one of the more ambitious CV titles. It still stands in my top 3. I doubt we'll see as innovative a title in a long time.

Plus, Uzo's note is well taken: "You neglect to mention the atmosphere, dark and detailed graphics, music, overall mood, whip swinging, great use of mode 7, excellent level design, and more." It maybe be a remake of #1, but I think it's a far more original and dynamic remake than Chronicles; it feels more like a sequel to me, honestly.

PS: Why Ego's avoidance of CVIII?!

[Flame]

Either because the only really new thing was the character changing system and different characters, or because he just hasnt gotten around to making the CV vs CV3 video yet and wanted to tackle 4 because its really just a remake of 1. so its the remake vs the original. Gets complicated because its titled 4 when its a remake. (and 3 is 3 despite being a prequel)