Topic: Can't believe Castlevania 1 got it so right out the gate

[Sinful]

So Castlevania 1 finally grew on me enough to be played much more regularly by me (at first I was like "Man, it's the first in the series, how good can it be?). But with each time I came back to this game, the more I got into this game. And after only like 3 to 4x playing this game, it easily became one of my most fave vania games.

Right now, after a few more playthroughs, I've manged to be able to beat Frankenstein with only double knifes instead of triple holy water, made it past Death (with triple holy water, though almost with the cross too... down to 1 bar I had him, so next time it should be np), and up to Dracula's last form. Though sadly the last few times I played, I had the game crash on me during the last level (does this happen outside of emulation too?). So next time I'm gonna make a state save at the start of the last level only for the occasion that the game may crash again?


But anywho, this game really amazes me at how well they got this Castlevania formula right from the very start. Man, this team were on fire when they made this game. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this game. And I'm even talking about the game's controls and gameplay, because the game having knockbacks and whip windup delay are not control or gameplay flaws even in the slightest (maybe it's not in preference with what you like, but there is nothing wrong with them at all).

And the game's graphics and sounds. Wow! Just wow. It sure don't seem like one of the first or second gen NES games to me, is all I'm gonna say about this.

Though so far I noticed something I believed to be true exist with this series too. If it ain't broke, don't fix it or change it too much. And it's what I believe what keeps a series strong and healthy through numerous titles in the long run. As so far to me, the best Castlevania games are the ones that sticks closest to the foundations set by this first game.

I also love seeing traditions being passed along though the series. Like I just found out that the bridge at the start of the last level started with this game! Cool!

[X]

I had the game crash on me during the last level (does this happen outside of emulation too?)

If you have a game genie cart hooked up to the cartage then it should help elevate the crash problems to some greater extent. I've not had a problem using this method and it seems to me that the game genie really is a game genie. It's not just for codes but it fixes other issues too  I wonder if the designer at Galoob co. knew this when they made it...

In terms of emulation then no. I've yet to see my NES emulator crash by itself unless there is a problem with my PC which would lead to the emulation quitting on me through mid-game.

[shelverton.]

Though so far I noticed something I believed to be true exist with this series too. If it ain't broke, don't fix it or change it too much. And it's what I believe what keeps a series strong and healthy through numerous titles in the long run. As so far to me, the best Castlevania games are the ones that sticks closest to the foundations set by this first game.

This is problematic. Don't get me wrong cause I actually agree somewhat with you, but at the same time it's this kind of mentality that makes video game series go stale. Had Castlevania sticked to its original foundation I'm not sure the series would've been around today. And some people may even argue that it would've been for the better. So the part where you say that the series would've been "strong and healthy through numerous titles in the long run" is probably a little too optimistic. The original games weren't exactly multi million sellers to begin with. But in a perfect world, sure.

[Sinful]

If you have a game genie cart hooked up to the cartage then it should help elevate the crash problems to some greater extent. I've not had a problem using this method and it seems to me that the game genie really is a game genie. It's not just for codes but it fixes other issues too  I wonder if the designer at Galoob co. knew this when they made it...

lol

In terms of emulation then no. I've yet to see my NES emulator crash by itself unless there is a problem with my PC which would lead to the emulation quitting on me through mid-game.

So you say this does not happen during emulation for you?... Strange, because this happened to me in the latest version of Nestopia (I just switched to this emu cause I found out it had Blargg's NTSC plugin filter, to emulate a TV's image with all kinds of crazy slider option at my disposal). But the way the bug happens made me believe it was possibly related to how it happens on a console... the first clue that all is not well is when that last level before the bridge starts. It goes from the map screen to the start of the level in a weird glitchy kind of cut, with some garbled image(s) and sound in between. I forget where the first crash happened for sure (there may of been a third one now that I think of it?), but the last one happened sometime soon after of being indoors. Up to the very top, and just past the last bone throwing skeleton and where them birds with hunchbacks start.

This is problematic. Don't get me wrong cause I actually agree somewhat with you, but at the same time it's this kind of mentality that makes video game series go stale. Had Castlevania sticked to its original foundation I'm not sure the series would've been around today. And some people may even argue that it would've been for the better. So the part where you say that the series would've been "strong and healthy through numerous titles in the long run" is probably a little too optimistic. The original games weren't exactly multi million sellers to begin with. But in a perfect world, sure.

Yeah, but a sequel that keeps the main core of what makes the series intact, yet still manages to add enough new stuff that don't disturb the old stuff can still be done and has been done.

My main problem is changing the series too much that it becomes a totally different game all together.

And yeah, the Castlevania series may not of been able to survive if not for the changes, but you know what? Even with the changes. The Castlevania series as I know & prefect it died a long time ago, after Castlevania XX for the SNES. So I wouldn't of lost anything, but gained at least a few more classic vania games instead of what we ended up with. And even with barely any classic vania games being released, at least this way the series stands a much better chance at coming back in recognizable form when it does. And not have reached a point of no return, like how the vania games are now. (And sure we can still make the best of what we're getting now and keep an open mind too, but there no doubt things would of fared better for this series if it stayed closer to home, is the way I see's it)

[Flame]

That's just like, your opinion, bro. And I respectfully disagree.

Variety and evolution of a game franchise is necessary to some extent to keep it fresh after a while.

One could use the Mega Man series for your argument,  Buuut, even that has had it's changes and upgrades to the formula, even though the core 8 stages and core gameplay have remained mostly intact.

And even then, well, look at where the franchise is now. In limbo because they dont know what to do with it or how to update it because they never strayed too far from the basic formula, or did so just too late. (Lookin' at ZX here.)

the changes to the Castlevania series have helped grow and define itself. Without change we might never have gotten 3D castlevania games, who knows.

Also, most classicvanias follow similar mechanics, no? only some of them either remove whip upgrading, or make your jump trajectory changeable. or added the ability to jump onto and off of stairs, something which caused a bit of frustration in games like 1,2, and 3

Castlevania 2 itself, is the prototypical metroidvania. The first game to try the open ended world and rpg elements. Something which SoTN then refined extensively and ran with, becoming one of the most critically acclaimed games since SCIV (and after as well, people still consider it one of the best Castlevanias in the franchise) What if Konami had never tried to experiment with SImon's quest? perhaps SotN would be radically different? perhaps it would not have been as good as it was? and with both the 2D game and the 3D games (the N64 games) having gotten not so great reception, or just not the kind of reception Konami wanted, perhaps there, Konami would have started to lose interest in Castlevania and it would have started fading out?

Well, probably not, the 90's saw a boom in the gaming industry. with the N64 and PS1 and Dreamcast and shit, everyone was scrambling to put their top franchises on one of them. So I doubt Castlevania would have been gone for good. They just would have tried again later.

but undeniably, we might have a different looking Castlevania series on our hands today. Who knows.

but I stand by my thought that the changes made in games post CV1, were fundamental in helping the franchise grow and define itself.
Actually when i think about it, metroidvania, or RPGvania in anycase, seems to have been just a destined part of the franchise, since even vampire Killer had RPG elements in it, and it was before Simon's quest. Made at the same time as the NES CV1 if Im right.

[Abnormal Freak]

Variety and evolution of a game franchise is necessary to some extent to keep it fresh after a while.

Definitely. I felt Mega Man was getting pretty stale, but then MMX came around and blew my ass away. Then that series started to kinda blow, and I feel that MM Zero came in to save the day.

The first Castlevania is pretty much tied with IV for my favorite in the series. It's an incredible game—but had the series kept doing the same things over and over, we wouldn't have gotten great games like II, III, IV, Belmont's Revenge, Bloodlines, Chronicles, Rondo, Symphony.............

[Thomas Belmont]

The first Castlevania is pretty much tied with IV for my favorite in the series. It's an incredible game—but had the series kept doing the same things over and over, we wouldn't have gotten great games like II, III, IV, Belmont's Revenge, Bloodlines, Chronicles, Rondo, Symphony.............

Yes we would have. Aside from Simon's Quest and Symphony, all the games you mentioned didn't stray too far from the original's formula.

[Abnormal Freak]

Not if you've followed any of Sinful's arguments. He pretty much feels that the later games alter things in ways that make them worse and not faithful to the original--that seems to be what he's been saying for weeks now.

Later games eliminate knock-backs and introduce mid-air direction changing. CV IV has a multi-directional whip. Rondo... Well, I'm not really sure his stance on that, but he seems to think it doesn't really play like a real CV game.

[X]

So you say this does not happen during emulation for you?... Strange, because this happened to me in the latest version of Nestopia (I just switched to this emu cause I found out it had Blargg's NTSC plugin filter, to emulate a TV's image with all kinds of crazy slider option at my disposal). But the way the bug happens made me believe it was possibly related to how it happens on a console... the first clue that all is not well is when that last level before the bridge starts. It goes from the map screen to the start of the level in a weird glitchy kind of cut, with some garbled image(s) and sound in between. I forget where the first crash happened for sure (there may of been a third one now that I think of it?), but the last one happened sometime soon after of being indoors. Up to the very top, and just past the last bone throwing skeleton and where them birds with hunchbacks start.

What version of Nestopia are you using? I have an older one on my PC since I haven't bothered to get a newer one in several...I'd say almost ten years (don't quote me on this as I'm not really sure). The one I'm using is version 1.09. No problems for me thus far and it's been a while in use.

[Thomas Belmont]

What version of Nestopia are you using? I have an older one on my PC since I haven't bothered to get a newer one in several...I'd say almost ten years (don't quote me on this as I'm not really sure). The one I'm using is version 1.09. No problems for me thus far and it's been a while in use.

I don't have much knowledge of emulators. Can you use a controller to play the games? Thanks.

[X]

I don't have much knowledge of emulators. Can you use a controller to play the games? Thanks.

Yes, I use a controller for Nestopia as it comes with a button config menu 

[Thomas Belmont]

Can you just use any controller or is there a specific kind? As you probably already have guessed, I'm not a PC gamer. Thanks again.

[Aridale]

any usb controller can be configured for just about any emulator if that emulator is worth a damn. Those same usb controllers can be made to work with absolutely any program on PC with a program called XPadder

[Thomas Belmont]

any usb controller can be configured for just about any emulator if that emulator is worth a damn. Those same usb controllers can be made to work with absolutely any program on PC with a program called XPadder

Cool. So would a PS3 controller work?

[Sinful]

What version of Nestopia are you using? I have an older one on my PC since I haven't bothered to get a newer one in several...I'd say almost ten years (don't quote me on this as I'm not really sure). The one I'm using is version 1.09. No problems for me thus far and it's been a while in use.

I'll try that one too... I had an older one too, but then I for sure thought that the sound glitch problem I was hearing in the US version of CIII wasn't due to a dropped channel and do to emulation. So then I searched to see if there was a newer version, and there was by 3 points.... let me check too see which one I had... oh, I had 137, but now i have 140.., you have 109!!!!! Yikes!! I doubt that'll have Blarggs NTSC filters that I can't live without.

Cool. So would a PS3 controller work?

I know my X-Box 360 pad works, so I'm pretty sure your PS3 pad should work too... if it doesn't install the drivers itself, you may have to do it. But after that, it should work for sure.

Plus every other PC pad I've had worked for every emulator I had too in the past. I mean dang, I'm a gamer, you don't expect me to play with a keyboard, do you?

Not if you've followed any of Sinful's arguments.

That's right, I'm a real jerk! Mwa ha, ha, ha, ha! ... Hmm? Oh, I think all others except Super Castlevania IV is fine and follow very closely to the traditional Castlevania games... Rondo is fine too for the most part (even though it itself was a spin off, and thus was allowed to be more different)... I mean, hey, as long as Konami fixed it's flaws for the SNES sequal/spinoff that came later, then all is well. But hey, Rondo still feels very classic Castlevania to me as is... to most, even Super Castlevania does too. But me I'm very happy they didn't bring the whip in every direction idea back. EVER! ... The way Bloodlines did it was just right if the series were to have some extra directions to whip in, since playing as John didn't feel like you had as much freedom to whip in every direction as Eric did. Even though they basically has the same amount of extra angles... and Bloodlines balanced for some extra directions in whipping by taking away all control over jumps just like in the NES trilogy... and while Rondo/XX had some control over jumps, they balanced it with old school whipping in only one direction. Yay. They've made me so proud.

For me, to properly evolve a series can still be done simple and effective. Like let's looks at Castlevania 3. They kept the main gameplay intact exactly by keeping the hero controlling almost exactly + interacting with the enemies and levels almost exactly. Yet for new content they added; way more levels and in other areas outside of the Castle for a change; Added extra new challenges in the levels alongside new ones; Added extra enemies & bosses; Added multiple routes to reach the end; And added extra 3 quite unique characters that offered more then enough change for those that wanted it... But for those that don't want it, they can still beat the game with just the Belmont since the game never forces you to play as any of the other characters since they game was designed with the main hero, Belmont, in mind. Thus CIII ends up being a perfect example of a classic Castlevania sequel... Unlike say SotN where the Belmont played second fiddle and the game was in no way designed around him. (You see, SotN should of remained a spin off. Just like how the Gradius series had the Salamander/Parodius series and that Gaiden game for the PS1... and SotN was never intended to be like the main series from the very start since IGA said "because it had an X, we could do what we want, and them classic vania fans better like. Hee, hee, hee, hee. Hee, hee, hee. ")