Topic: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)

[Belmontoya]

It's a downright shame that people are still trying to call LOS and it's upcoming games a GOW rip off. Anyone who feels that way must not have noticed how much GOW borrowed from CV in the first place. It's also hilarious that these same people who make this gripe say that they are hopefull that Mirror of fate will be a "Metriodvania." Just think about that for a second, and ask yourself what the "original" game you were hoping for really was?

MS have proven themselves in my book, and I think these new games look great. It's a good thing that they have started their own storyline. By making their own story they show respect to other CV developers from the past, unlike IGA who felt entitled to strike games from the record. Does the title Castlevania Legends and the character Sonia Belmont ring a bell?

Have a little faith and let Mercury Steam make Castlevania their own. Clearly a certain developer in the past felt he could take that liberty.

These guys know they are doing, and these games will be great. They have also warmed new players up to Castlevania, which was much needed. I have a couple friends who shrugged off CV games for years until LOS came out.

[Neobelmont]

No, but actually purchasing the combos with your experience vs gaining as you leveled is such a small, small detail.

If that's becoming a legitimate argument, then all fighting games are ripoffs of each other because they all have QCF attacks.

I never said anything about leveling just that it kind of happenes you know. I still do not understand, the skill just comes out of nowhere.

Perhaps it's a small detail, but it's one never the less right?

[e105beta]

I never said anything about leveling just that it kind of happenes you know. I still do not understand, the skill just comes out of nowhere.

Perhaps it's a small detail, but it's one never the less right?

Very true. Still think the argument is bollocks.

[RichterB]

Enough complaining and splitting hairs; it's brass tax time!

Here's where we get to some nitty gritty. I understand and can agree both sides discussing the fundamental game design. But, whether the ideas were borrowed/inspired or not from 2D Castlevania, in 3D execution, Lords of Shadow does play too much like God of War, and not like "Castlevania." (In turn, God of War can play like Lament of Innocence, which in turn plays like Rygar: The Legendary Adventure and Devil May Cry...again, not "Castlevania").

So, here's where the rubber hits the road: What plays like Castlevania in 3D?

Well...from my experience, I would argue, in a most basic fundamental sense, the Maximo series by Capcom (a 3D reworking of Ghosts N Goblins, which is an 80's action-platforming horror peer of Castlevania), and Konami's very own Castlevania 64 and Legacy of Darkness.

There it is. I said it. Now, can anyone swallow their pride enough to admit it?

[Sumac]

Looks good where? Even DxC looks better, more enemies placement, the enemies are obstacles, no QTEs, no over the top combat, difficult bosses with real and interesting patterns.

DXC was a remake of ROB, so it's not unusual that it was based around old formula. MOF trying to do its own thing, so don't expect it to be like previous games.

As bad as judgement was, it had a badass soundtrack which made it more enjoyable despite lackluster gameplay.

Rock arrangements, rock arrangements everywhere. As if composers forgot that they can do remixes in the other styles. Pretty boring. The same deal with HD.

but we are basically receiving the same troll game as LoS and its "reboot liberties"

As if cloning one game wasn't trolling?

[MKKhanzo]

Onimusha had soul collecting before any of these action games, dmc had launch combos, cv chains, and the setting well laets just say that Rygar and it's rainbow ending did it before.

God of war did nothing new and it's nothing special


So that god of war thing you just did is very obnoxious not cool man it's annoying and all facts lead up to that game doing nothin new even qtes

I do not -1 people but this one deserves it.

So did Soul Reaver before and Legacy of Kain way before. I just put up GoW casue not of LoS/Cox ripping GoW, but ripping it so blatantly its not even funny.

 Have you played Rise of the Argonauts? Its an Action-RPG based on Greek Myths and have some similarities with all of the mentioned games... But it SUCKS at them.

That was my point with LoS/Coxvanias, they base themselves on other games but when copying, they copy it bad.

 TL:DR: I dont like the direction the franchise is going, and I dont support that Castlevania HAS to become a hack and slash of modern times, copying templates of other games to survive. Gimme 2D action all day and ifyou are going to do it 3D use the CV64 template: No combos, HARD jumps, insta death on pits, no exp or buying BS that will not be usefull (potroast and puryfing, God bless them).

 About the -1 and so: I dont care about forum rep. Everyone here SHARES THEIR OPINION and I would NEVER pick on them or say anything bad directly at them. Caring about Rep system on forums is like arguing on the internet.

TO EVERYONE: I didnt wanted to offend anyone with my opinions so: Im sorry, english is NOT my default language so my wordings may be harsh but they may not meant that

[e105beta]

Enough complaining and splitting hairs; it's brass tax time!

Here's where we get to some nitty gritty. I understand and can agree both sides discussing the fundamental game design. But, whether the ideas were borrowed/inspired or not from 2D Castlevania, in 3D execution, Lords of Shadow does play too much like God of War, and not like "Castlevania." (In turn, God of War can play like Lament of Innocence, which in turn plays like Rygar: The Legendary Adventure and Devil May Cry...again, not "Castlevania").

So, here's where the rubber hits the road: What plays like Castlevania in 3D?

Well...from my experience, I would argue, in a most basic fundamental sense, the Maximo series by Capcom (a 3D reworking of Ghosts N Goblins, which is an 80's action-platforming peer of Castlevania), and Konami's very own Castlevania 64 and Legacy of Darkness.

There it is. I said it. Now, can anyone swallow their pride enough to admit it?

No, because Legacy of Darkness is essentially the original formula in 3D.

Despite that, I found it lacking, and until I see a real improvement on it, I maintain the belief that the original formula just doesn't translate too well to 3D.

It's the reason why the game design industry is an evolving process. I wouldn't really want game nowadays to play like 3D versions of their NES counterparts, to be honest. I think people forget that NES games aren't exactly the pinnacle of game design. Even the best ones were limited by the technology at the time.

[Akuma]

Uh every castlevania ever is a hack and slash.  Butter it up however you want but you still basically kill stuff left and right throughout the stage or area.

 

[RichterB]

Enough complaining and splitting hairs; it's brass tax time!

Here's where we get to some nitty gritty. I understand and can agree both sides discussing the fundamental game design. But, whether the ideas were borrowed/inspired or not from 2D Castlevania, in 3D execution, Lords of Shadow does play too much like God of War, and not like "Castlevania." (In turn, God of War can play like Lament of Innocence, which in turn plays like Rygar: The Legendary Adventure and Devil May Cry...again, not "Castlevania").

So, here's where the rubber hits the road: What plays like Castlevania in 3D?

Well...from my experience, I would argue, in a most basic fundamental sense, the Maximo series by Capcom (a 3D reworking of Ghosts N Goblins, which is an 80's action-platforming horror peer of Castlevania), and Konami's very own Castlevania 64 and Legacy of Darkness.

There it is. I said it. Now, can anyone swallow their pride enough to admit it?

No, because Legacy of Darkness is essentially the original formula in 3D.

Despite that, I found it lacking, and until I see a real improvement on it, I maintain the belief that the original formula just doesn't translate too well to 3D

Ok, and I assume you think the same thing about Maximo 1 and 2. But then, if you maintain that, and it's your right, then I think the God of War argument is equally valid. If 2D Castlevania in full 3D is not Castlevania, than the other choice is not any more so Castlevania in 3D. Wait, this is getting really weird. Basically we're saying that Castlevania can't be Castlevania in 3D!

[Neobelmont]

So did Soul Reaver before and Legacy of Kain way before. I just put up GoW casue not of LoS/Cox ripping GoW, but ripping it so blatantly its not even funny.

 Have you played Rise of the Argonauts? Its an Action-RPG based on Greek Myths and have some similarities with all of the mentioned games... But it SUCKS at them.

That was my point with LoS/Coxvanias, they base themselves on other games but when copying, they copy it bad.

 TL:DR: I dont like the direction the franchise is going, and I dont support that Castlevania HAS to become a hack and slash of modern times, copying templates of other games to survive. Gimme 2D action all day and ifyou are going to do it 3D use the CV64 template: No combos, HARD jumps, insta death on pits, no exp or buying BS that will not be usefull (potroast and puryfing, God bless them).

 About the -1 and so: I dont care about forum rep. Everyone here SHARES THEIR OPINION and I would NEVER pick on them or say anything bad directly at them. Caring about Rep system on forums is like arguing on the internet.

TO EVERYONE: I didnt wanted to offend anyone with my opinions so: Im sorry, english is NOT my default language so my wordings may be harsh but they may not meant that

Not picking at all, but it's tiresome when you hear GoD and LoS all the time it's part of the action genre and I am not a random minus guy either you know it's just that there is a point when that argument gets so tried you know. I don't like to bash anyone either were on the internet on a castlevania site and having fun is why I am here, also I do not think you offended anyone with your opinion so its cool all right and words seem more harsh than needed to be right it's gaming and fun is where it's at

[MKKhanzo]

Not picking at all, but it's tiresome when you hear GoD and LoS all the time it's part of the action genre and I am not a random minus guy either you know it's just that there is a point when that argument gets so tried you know. I don't like to bash anyone either were on the internet on a castlevania site and having fun is why I am here, also I do not think you offended anyone with your opinion so its cool all right and words seem more harsh than needed to be right it's gaming and fun is where it's at

Thanks for your kind post. How do I +rep you¿? 

[e105beta]

No, because Legacy of Darkness is essentially the original formula in 3D.

Despite that, I found it lacking, and until I see a real improvement on it, I maintain the belief that the original formula just doesn't translate too well to 3D


Ok, and I assume you think the same thing about Maximo 1 and 2. But then, if you maintain that, and it's your right, then I think the God of War argument is equally valid. If 2D Castlevania in 3D is not Castlevania, than the other choice is not any more so Castlevania in 3D. Wait, this is getting really weird. Basically we're saying that Castlevania can't be Castlevania in 3D!

Depends on your definition of Castlevania. Mines not limited to one type of gameplay, so to me, CV64 is just as much Castlevania as are SotN and LoS.

[shelverton.]

Almost every game I've ever played is a Pac-Man-clone. Because you move a character on the screen. And you collect things. And there are enemies.

No, but really. The "who did it first"-discussion is getting a little stale. (Heck, I'm getting a little stale. I don't think I have much more to add at this point. I need to play Mirror of Fate before I can say anything more about it.)

Btw, Maximo is an old favorite of mine. Damn, those games were tough.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I am finding a flaw in the thinking of people in general.  Here's what I'm reading, here:

-The closest thing to a well-translated 3D Rendition of Castlevania is "Castlevania64" and "Legacy of Darkness" (which I agree with)
-That formula needs improvement. (which I can agree with, somewhat)

But then there is:
-Castlevania's current direction is a rip-off of God Of War/Dante's Inferno/Bayonetta/Devil May Cry (which I also agree with to some extent)

However, how does one 'add' to the formula that was the closest to what Castlevania is to most fans (CV64/LoD) without seemingly 'borrowing' elements from these current-gen games?

Take the LoS approach:
-You've got some platforming, but it's no longer jumping, it's shimmying (though in MoF it seems to be more jump-focused, as well as hanging on ledges and bounding off walls).
...but that's like Assassin's Creed and Shadow of the Colossus.
-You've got a battle-oriented combo system with weak and strong attacks, dodging and jumping, and QTE finishing moves.
...but that's like God of War and other battle games (DMC, Bayonetta, Dante's Inferno, etc.).  How can one have a battle system at all that is not like these games while at the same time being fresh and new a good?  The IGA/MetroidVania games had a dodge move and had no combo system, but then the heroes would wipe past the enemies very easily (Ecclesia solved this a little bit by making the game punish you for your recklessness).
-LoS/MoF enjoy throwing enemies at you and locking you in a room, forcing you to make use of the battling system.
...but that's like old Final Fight and Streets of Rage and other beat 'em ups, where the screen would stop scrolling until you defeated wave upon wave of enemies in order to pass.

So, essentially, the new definition of an "Action Game" is now one that possesses these aspects.  The market seems to have decided this, for it is the games with the huge bang&wow factor are the ones that MercurySteam is borrowing (or at times, taking back) elements from.

Personally speaking, I wish I didn't have to wail on enemies for as long as that Executioner video showed.  It diminishes the power of my weapon, it makes my character seem weak and pathetic, and seems to just be a gimmick to make the gameplay appear longer than it should be.  Cut the health of those enemies by about 50%, and give 'em a stun animation and maybe things might improve.

BTW, that Executioner?  Totally seen him before.

[DragonSlayr81]

Igor Taunts Gameplay - Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate



Acquire the Boomerang Gameplay - Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate

The platforming looks great, but the battles looks like a chore. My GOD, they look horrible. This is something I kinda wish would happen like when Sega heard the critical response of the leaked Sonic 4 Episode 1 footage. Take the criticism into consideration. That boss battle would've looked way more bearable had you been able to do more damage. The giant bats, if you were able to kill them in 2 hits each(and if something had to be unlocked, keep them spawning until you trigger it, plain and SIMPLE as that). I mean, DAMMIT MAN, even the fuckin BARRELS take multiple hits to destroy! WTF?

And I can't see how QTE would be optional. That whole part where the Executioner grabs Trevor seemed very UN-optional.