Topic: Newcomer: Which CV games to play first?

[Ratty]

I feel incredibly sorry for the poor guy who buys Legacy of Darkness for 100$ on eBay.

Hell, I felt ripped off picking it up in the bargain bin for 5$ at GameStop. That game is terrible.

I actually think it's one of the best games in the series, but different strokes for different folks. I really dislike "Harmony of Dissonance", finding the music grating and the castle both confusing and boring at the same time. But hey that game is on several people's must-try lists in this very thread. Maybe I was just expecting too much after the great "Circle of the Moon" or I played the game at a bad time. In any case, to each their own.

[uzo]

I actually think it's one of the best games in the series

Try worst game in the franchise hands down (presuming you count CV64 as the same game, since it was basically the same game with an added couple of bits). It is undoubtedly the Castlevania game with the worst controls and camera in the entire franchise history, that has come from Konami itself. It's borderline unplayable.

I've made an honest effort to try and play the game, in an attempt to finish it, for research purposes to see if there was anything they did right amidst this abomination. Fifteen tries later, I still couldn't push myself through this sloggy, unplayable, disaster of a game. No amount of musical, atmospheric, or never implemented conceptual wonder can gloss over the game's beyond terrible gameplay, which lets face it, is the most important part of a game.

I would recommend that newcomers simply forget it exists and move on. Their time, and potentially money, wasted in obtaining the game would be better served in procuring someone to punch them in the face. The end result is about the same feeling afterwards.

This is a game so bad that Koji Igarashi (director of Castlevania Symphony of the Night, in case our newcomer friend is unaware) publicly asked that everyone FORGETS IT EXISTS.

'One of the best in the series'... Hah!

[Profbeanburrito]

I really enjoy CV 64 and Legacy of Darkness, I didn't think it was sluggish, or had bad controls. The camera is a little wonky some times, but not too terrible. 

[Belmont Stakes]

Play Castlevania 1, 3, Bloodlines, Chronicles, Drac X Chronicles, SOTN, LOI, COD, LOS and just as a goof play CVII I want to hear your take on it as there is an open topic about it. But no matter what you do Play Castlevania games period. Enjoy


Also to X
"I'm not an Atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a Pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages.... The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books, but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God." -Albert Einstein.

Great quote on your sig.

[Ratty]

I really enjoy CV 64 and Legacy of Darkness, I didn't think it was sluggish, or had bad controls. The camera is a little wonky some times, but not too terrible.

Pretty much this. And this is the same IGA who made "HoD" (which I previously mentioned I dislike) and later "Curse of Darkness" making the request you mention, so I won't take his asking me to forget a game I really enjoy as the word of god.
 
The controls were not sluggish and the camera problems in CV64 were pretty well fixed in LoD. You can not like the game if you wish, but you're just wrong in those criticisms. Perhaps you were playing it with the 4MB expansion pack? That's been known to cause slowdown and other problems in LoD amongst other games. Personally I think the N64 titles captured the feel of ClassicVania in 3D near perfectly, and found the gameplay in LoD wonderful.
If you disagree, which you are entitled to do, I see no reason to get so venomous and spiteful about it.

[uzo]

The controls were not sluggish and the camera problems in CV64 were pretty well fixed in LoD. You can not like the game if you wish, but you're just wrong in those criticisms.

The character is sluggish, and lumpy. Its not that the game is laggy, its that the characters are slow and unwieldy. The character does not respond well, nor has a good turning speed. Attacks are slow and unfit for combat in 3D environments. LoD still has a shit camera too. Better but still not good. It just has poor implementation overall. But it's just wrong to not like flaws in games. I get ya.

There is no defense for this game.

[RichterB]

PPersonally I think the N64 titles captured the feel of ClassicVania in 3D near perfectly, and found the gameplay in LoD wonderful. If you disagree, which you are entitled to do, I see no reason to get so venomous and spiteful about it.

Amen. I third the notion that Legacy of Darkness (and the N64 era) delivered the best Castlevania in 3D by far.

N64 CV accomplishments:

(click to show/hide)

*Multiple unique characters (up to four in LoD, two in CV64) with alternate levels/bosses
*Full 3D gameplay (ala Mario 64, so it's not "on-rails")
*Multiple endings based on performance
*Level Design features spatial depth (vertical and horizontal--not flat hallways)
*day-and-night cycles with time-sensitive events (like Simon's Quest)
*Weather effects (rain, lightning, moving clouds, and "fog"--the last one likely being a graphical shortcoming that actually helped)
*Dynamic, real-time lighting (next to candles, for instance)
*spot-on atmosphere
*death-defying platforming of all sorts (including ledge grabbing).
*environmental/enemy hazards (medusa heads, spikes, guillotines, buzz-saws, cannons).
*innovative survival-horror/suspense elements
*Vampires that pretend to be human and vampires as regular enemies besides bosses
*status changes, including poison and vampirism
*manageable questing with inventory items (meat, keys, cards, cure ampules, etc)
*interesting, involving plot (characters like Rosa, Vincent, Renon, Malice, Henry, etc)
*3D in-game cinemas
*Some voicing
*Unlockable alternate costumes
*Long and short-ranged attacks (IE: whip + sword)
*upgradable sub-weapons (in LoD)
*There is a useful slide and duck/crawl play mechanic
*Diverse mix of old and new enemies in 3D

Back to the topic at hand, it's hard to say which to play, as each caters to a slightly different type of player, and modern trends may affect one's experience. I would say Castlevania IV, III, Bloodlines, Belmont's Revenge, SotN, Adventure Rebirth, and Dracula X (SNES version) stand out, though. Honestly, you can't go 100% wrong with Castlevania games, so you'll find all sorts of things to like amidst a few painful quirks or awkward turns here and there. I had a serious problem with Nintendo Power dissing the N64 games. They can be rough around the edges, but they are great 3D Castlevania games if you take the time to learn their quirks and get over the technical limitations of the era they were made in. If you do dip into the N64 games, realize that Legacy of Darkness is an expanded reimagining/prequel of CV64. It's the more polished and complete game, with more scope, but it lacks a few of the charms and level designs that were interesting in CV64.

Ordering Castlevania is very, very hard. I'll give it my best shot, but a lot of this will be + or - as far as placement. (Keep in mind that I have not played Order of Ecclesia (DS) or Harmony of Despair (PS3/XBOX360), so I can't rank them). I am judging on an aggregate of overall atmosphere, fun, level design, and gameplay over a number of years, with an eye toward the old-school "core" of the franchise. (I will say that the "Metroid-esque" Castlevanias don't tend to hold up as well on replays as other titles, even if some of those other titles taken by themselves, like Legends, are really pretty poor). Others would rank them differently with different parameters. Currently, off the top of my head, I'd say:

1.) Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse
2.) Super Castlevania IV
3.) Castlevania: Dracula X
4.) Castlevania: Bloodlines
5.) Castlevania II (GB): Belmont's Revenge
6.) Castlevania II: Simon's Quest
7.) The Castlevania Adventure
8.) Castlevania (64)
9.) Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness
10.) Castlevania: The Adventure Rebirth
11.) Castlevania
12.) Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
13.) Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
14.) Castlevania: Rondo of Blood
15.) Castlevania: Chronicles
16.) Castlevania: Lament of Innocence
17.) Castlevania: Legends
18.) Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
19.) Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
20.) Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin
21.) Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow
21.) Castlevania: Judgment
22.) Castlevania: Curse of Darkness
23.) Castlevania: Lords of Shadow

[Ratty]

There is no defense for this game.

N64 CV accomplishments:
*Multiple unique characters (up to four in LoD, two in CV64) with alternate levels/bosses
*Full 3D gameplay (ala Mario 64, so it's not "on-rails")
*Multiple endings based on performance
*Level Design features spatial depth (vertical and horizontal--not flat hallways)
*day-and-night cycles with time-sensitive events (like Simon's Quest)
*Weather effects (rain, lightning, moving clouds, and "fog"--the last one likely being a graphical shortcoming that actually helped)
*Dynamic, real-time lighting (next to candles, for instance)
*spot-on atmosphere
*death-defying platforming of all sorts (including ledge grabbing).
*environmental/enemy hazards (medusa heads, spikes, guillotines, buzz-saws, cannons).
*innovative survival-horror/suspense elements
*Vampires that pretend to be human and vampires as regular enemies besides bosses
*status changes, including poison and vampirism
*manageable questing with inventory items (meat, keys, cards, cure ampules, etc)
*interesting, involving plot (characters like Rosa, Vincent, Renon, Malice, Henry, etc)
*3D in-game cinemas
*Some voicing
*Unlockable alternate costumes
*Long and short-ranged attacks (IE: whip + sword)
*upgradable sub-weapons (in LoD)
*There is a useful slide and duck/crawl play mechanic
*Diverse mix of old and new enemies in 3D

Seems like RichterB has given a good listing of the positive qualities of the N64 titles. I wouldn't say they need "defense" as such. If you didn't have fun with them fine, but there are others who did. And while you are an exception, most of the common criticisms toward LoD in particular seem to stem from those who have either never played it, or not played it for very long. Though CV64 has it's share of those to, like a lot of people thinking you can't save in CV64 because the AVGN said it.

The 64 titles had the misfortune to follow Symphony of the Night, after which the mass audiences perception of what "Castlevania" itself is shifted. And therefore when a Classicvania rather than a Metroidvania in 3D was released it was a disappointment to many who had just jumped on the fan/fadwagon. Console wars and all. "My Castlevania is better than yours!" "N64 isn't a real Castlevania, like SOTN!" etc. This, along with the fact that the original release of CV64 was rushed, left a lot of N64 owners feeling burned because they didn't get SOTN. And Satan has nothing on a scorched fanboy when it comes to holding grudges.