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Inserting pits of doom, enemies becoming more resistant and stronger (like CotM) and only 2 saves per area (1 in the beggining and another after the boss) is a good idea?

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Offline Lelygax

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Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« on: August 27, 2012, 11:08:42 AM »
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Would inserting pits of doom, more powerful enemies and less savepoints in a Castleroid/MetroidVania be better to balance things? If possible say why, give ideas, etc.  8)
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Offline Dalles

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Re: Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2012, 11:14:17 AM »
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PoD's maybe not, but definitely traps/challenges that Castleroids have enough examples of. Less savepoints? Not a good idea. As it stands, there's one per sector usually so that's just about enough. Difficulty levels would be good though. Various unlockable characters with different gameplay mechanics, thus forcing you to learn the game anew. That'd be good too. Random castle generation - after all, the castle is a creation of Chaos, is it not? That'd fit. Even better: have the castle generate rooms anew each time you visit a save point. That'd work especially well: the castle changing while you sleep.
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Offline Lelygax

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Re: Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2012, 11:33:34 AM »
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Castle ever changing dont is a good idea in my opinion, but one castle that changes in every new game and stays unchanged until the end of the game is a good one, why? Think that, if the castle changed in like, every hour, Dracula would never find the bathroom lol
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Offline Dalles

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Re: Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2012, 11:37:14 AM »
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Yes, indeed. I just see how right you are. See, most savepoints are either just in the beginning of an area or right before a boss. Save before a boss and then find out you need to walk through half the clock tower AGAIN, losing half your HP in the process AGAIN and then fight sans saving because now before the boss there is no save point but Dracula's private restroom?

I can picture that already.

*entering room that used to be the save point*
*splooosh*
Enough shit! Have at you!
*instant death*
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Offline Lelygax

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Re: Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2012, 12:13:33 PM »
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 Yeah, thats not a good idea to remove the save before the boss, I agree seeing what you said  xD
 But what about inserting less potions in the game or even more expensive? Because if the game gives you a ton of potions its become easy, even if you make enemies harder beause that will turn in easy AND broken.
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Offline Dalles

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Re: Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2012, 12:20:27 PM »
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Lament of Innocence played this just about right so the best idea would be to copy that:

BOTH DIFFS:
- potions and powerups should be used in a quick-access realtime menu, disabling the ability to pause in order to regen

NORMAL:
- max 9 items of each kind carried
- normal enemy setup and power

CRAZY:
- max 5 items of each kind carried
- monster damage increased
- monsters from later stages roam even the early ones

We could also add ABSOLUTELY NO PAUSE OF ANY KIND DURING BOSS FIGHTS like it was solved in Ys Oath in Felghana and Origin (and Napishtim IIRC) as well as disable any kind of item use during these akin to Origin & Felghana.
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Offline Lelygax

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Re: Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2012, 12:43:55 PM »
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 Now THAT sound nice  ;D
 What about enabling Crazy/Hard since the beggining? Like a choice between Normal and Hard? Because its lame that you need to finish the game to enable that, its doesnt add anything anyway, at best IF you wanna add something to Hard you can do like some old games, put a "Try again in Hard Mode to gain a surprise" screen, or a hint if you finish the game in Normal, but I think its irrelevant and Normal and Hard must enable the same things after you finish the game.
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Offline Dalles

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Re: Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2012, 01:05:59 PM »
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I agree that most difficulty modes should be available from the getgo. But I also think that completing every difficulty should earn you a different kind of reward (but if you let's say complete a Crazy game from the getgo, you should also receive bonuses unlocked after completing lower difficulties so that you ain't forced to face a boring cakewalk if you are sure about your skill level.
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Offline X

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Re: Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2012, 11:48:47 PM »
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Quote
BOTH DIFFS:
- potions and powerups should be used in a quick-access realtime menu, disabling the ability to pause in order to regen

This isn't a good idea. At least not to me. Having to deal with a boss character while trying to restore health is even more difficult then multitasking. I have to manipulate the controller in such a way as to refill my life without getting myself killed in the process. CoD corrected this problem. It is one of the very few if not the only thing about that game IGA got right.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 11:51:50 PM by X »
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Offline DarkPrinceAlucard

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Re: Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2012, 11:55:09 PM »
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I think what order or ecclesia and Circle of the moon did was a great way to balance out the difficulty while still retaining the metroidvania feel.


Those 2 got it right if you ask me, and if we ever get another metroidvania title I would like to see a balance system similar to those 2 as far as difficulty and progression goes.


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Offline Gaawa-chan

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Re: Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2012, 11:20:50 PM »
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- potions and powerups should be used in a quick-access realtime menu

This may be the thing I disliked the most about LoI.  Juggling the menus around was an incredible pain in the midst of combat.  It was awkward, annoying, and not intuitive.  Perhaps if the configuration/menus were made more intuitive I'd be more open to it, but having to cycle through your armor/whips/accessories/items and then scroll to what you want to use mid-battle while losing the ability to block/dodge is NOT cool. And I love LoI.


Quote
We could also add ABSOLUTELY NO PAUSE OF ANY KIND DURING BOSS FIGHTS like it was solved in Ys Oath in Felghana and Origin (and Napishtim IIRC) as well as disable any kind of item use during these akin to Origin & Felghana.

I would HATE not being able to pause.  Dying just because I have to go to the bathroom or someone distracts me or some other thing completely beyond my control is the STUPIDEST THING EVER.

Allow a person to have both save spots (at least have one at the end of each area) and a quick-save feature. Not being able to save should NOT be a reason why a game is hard in this day and age. >_>


Being mysteriously unable to use items you have at your disposal is also stupid. Here's a better thought. Bring back strategically-placed wall-meat and get rid of carry-around heal items altogether.  We didn't need them before; why have them now? Wall meat could re-spawn every time you leave an area, so that if you need to go back through it, you can still count on it being there.

Offline Lelygax

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Re: Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2012, 08:18:43 AM »
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 Yeah, pause is a must have in any game, it own name says why.
 Items in walls should return too, also maybe some traps in wall, like they did in Chronicles with these Hunchbacks/Fleamen.

 I think that real-time acess for some items can work, but only if optional like in Mega Man so you can change things instantly OR in your inventory pressing pause.

 A quicksave is a great idead too, can work like a checkpoint when you enter a area, so if you dies here and press continue you will appear in the beggining of that level like in the classic games.

Thanks for sharing ideas, Im happy that this topic is alive yet xD
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Re: Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2012, 05:06:16 PM »
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... Honestly I think the level-up system needs to go.  I like RPGs (a lot), but I think this is a source of some of the problems.  Stat upgrades should be received through equips and power-up items (see LoI).  If you get any form of experience from enemies it should go towards learning abilities (LoS, LoI/CoD with monster kill requirements) but I don't think that's necessary.

Since Metroidvanias often require back-tracking... crazy level design/enemies is not ideal for that reason, at least not in places you're almost definitely going to back-track through. A possible solution would be to put a bigger emphasis on elemental/sub-weapon weaknesses. I know that some of the 'vanias already do this but I think it should be more common. Another solution would be to have more thoughtfully-used warp rooms or have the tickets like in the PS2 games that allow you to warp to a save spot.  That would reduce back-tracking and make the system more open to more complex level design.

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Re: Balance ideas for a Castleroid
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2012, 11:13:04 AM »
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Quote
... Honestly I think the level-up system needs to go.  I like RPGs (a lot), but I think this is a source of some of the problems.  Stat upgrades should be received through equips and power-up items (see LoI).

I agree.
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